Moyes on the rough deal from referees

that's fucking ridiculous. If you don't complain nothing happens. The amount of calls that have gone against us and cost us points this season has been a joke. This bullshit "it all evens itself out" line, which is basically the same as what you say about evening itself out is a stupid line touted to cover up a major flaw in the game and unwillingness to join modern times and let technology help get the calls right. There is no reason a red card, a penalty, or an offside call on a goal should not be instantly reviewed and corrected if needed. It does not even itself out. I'm still waiting for those penalties we're owed against the shite going back to the Clattenburg derby. Since when is calling attention to a major problem seen as being a cry baby?

Is it?
Pointing out that ref standard isn't where we want it to be is ok but complain after EVERY SINGLE GAME dosnt help anyone, did it?

‘Mind games’ with the officials should be left to experts like Fergie. Davey’s pre-derby complaints about Suarez backfired badly, and he was further embarrassed by Captain Phil’s booking for diving. Also, has he forgotten a refereeing decision in the last minute of that match?

Let’s leave the whingeing about referees to the relegation contenders, and concentrate on scoring more goals to win matches.

Since football became a bookmakers paradise the standard of officiating has become at best eratic and sometimes bordering on the criminal.

David, how do you suggest an offside goal or penalty decision be corrected after a game? Replay it?

These comments are just another such example of pussy-footing around a subject. Comments that will probably only appear in a handful of media channels, if that.

If you're going to complain, bloody complain. Make it back-page news. Take your fine. The upshot of that will be that refs will think twice before giving dodgy decisions against us.

And Wayne, Moyes has been complaining throughout this season re. referee calls, so hopefully the concerted persistence of it all will have an effect.

I have heard all the reasons for not using the technology and none stand up to scrutiny. Some of the most ludicrous reasons for not using it have been the time it would take to the refs mistakes give us something to talk about after the game. Well all the other sports that use it, their fans seem to find plenty to talk about and as for the extra time it would take well by the time the scorer has done his lap of honour the ref will have been given the correct decision by the 4th official. I mean Sundays game against Spurs was a perfect example, we had 2 calls for a penalty and from where I sit in upper bullens I would definitely have given the first. The ref has it happened seemed to have made the right call but if he had blown his whistle and asked the 4th official to look then everyone would have been happy.

I'm all for video technology as you've outlined.

When/if it comes in I think it will also improve player behaviour towards officials as the players will know that the ref has been able to clearly see the incident again and so they will most likely accept his decision.

If you look at the like of Man Utd, Man City, RS etc they hound the referee despite the respect campaign.

I remember Terry McDermot telling me one time that Shankly had instigated the pressurising of referees by insisting that every RS player had to scream in the referees ear for every decision.

Players turning their opponent, this is the new dive that's come in around the last year or so. Flick the ball behind themselves and just because they're spinning round they can hit the deck and claim a free kick. Pienaar is quite good at this!

There is a Spanish ref who is very good. Never blows for poncing around. Players spend the first 20 minutes complaining complaining complaining but once they understand its a physical tough game, the match comes alive and its beautiful to watch. It just shows the antics that players exhibit are causing what is acceptable to be pushed to ridiculously soft places.

When refs actually relocate their balls and take charge of games and the players, then more of these bad decisions, minus the off sides, will cease to be.

How many of the bad decisions received, such as the last minute free kick against Norwich, have been for fouls that didn't exist?

When my Aussie or Kiwi rugby supporting mates call someone a poof then they've nailed on seen a dive the ref has fallen for. Almost makes football embarrassing to watch when you're surrounded by this much contempt for the game.

Unfortunately, calling this out in the pub lead to a huge confrontation with a gay fellow last year. He didn't stand a chance, but I admired his fortitude.

I do think we have had our fair share of rough decisions this year, which in one reason why we legitimately got to smirk at that disallowed Suarez goal.

However, I should probably formally apologise to the ref on Sunday. Some of the things I was shouting at him after Dempsey's phantom handball were frankly obscene. It really did look nailed on at the time though.

Jay(774) is correct; we need to step it up on all fronts if we're too get anything. We are too "nice" a club. We don't hound the ref enough and I'd like to see all our players start making the most of contact just like the opposition do.

Honestly, I'd prefer it if everyone would behave as we try to do. Jela aside I don't think we have divers at the club, and none of our players really have a go at the ref. But the FA is doing FA about the teams that do pressure the ref and habitually cheat, so lets fight at their level if other clubs are not prepared to play nicely.

One question I always throw at the dark side , how many trophies have they won without the aid of the officials.

Not perfect... but refereeing is ruining the game.

Sean #783 Yes, in sentiment I fully agree, I really feel we get a relatively raw deal. Although without actual data we can never be fully sure, as the bad decisions are so much more memorable to us. A element of anecdotal evidence in support of that would be, that when we speak to our friends who support different teams, they all seem to feel that they are also to the underside of the average in respect of poor decisions. Of course, we can’t all be below average.

The vice of the long is that it’s the long run.

Diving and feigning injury needs to be clamped down on, not encouraged. I'm not generally in favour of technology in football – but a goal line system and retrospective punishment for diving are two things I am certain would benefit the sport.

How about the dodgy free kick which led to Norwich's last minute equaliser or the totally wrong second yellow card for Pienaar when he never touched the opponent at QPR which put us out of winning that match and left us short for the derby plus the Man City penalty that clearly wasn't?

We have had 2 decisions that did go our way: Fellaini should have been pulled up for handball in one of the Southampton goals (although we won that by 2 clear goals) and Liverpool's winner should have stood (although there's debate about whether the free-kick leading up to it was valid).

Totaling that up with Moyes targeting Reading, Newcastle and Wigan games and we have 6 effectively match-deciding decisions against us vs 1 for. Points differential of this would be 11 in our favour putting us second and within touching distance of Utd.

It's possible that this will even out of course and to be fair it did feel our luck started to change vs Spurs (although I'd say this was more the counterweight to hard-luck stories such as Fulham where we utterly battered them and failed to put the match away).

I don't agree that it should used for offsides however, one of the best things about football is it's free flowing nature and reviewing every offside decision would affect that. Fellaini's goal v Newcastle, watching that in real time, no-one in the pub I was in thought it was anything else than offside.

I think Moyes is totally right to keep the pressure on the referees until something happens. I mean that not only for the sake of Everton but for the sake of the game – and for the paying fan who wants to see a game of football and not a lottery.

It's completely irresponsible, the death of the Dutch linesman and the commonly held view that officials in the amateur, Sunday leagues, and most disgustingly at school level, are "fair game" is barbaric and a direct result of this dickhead behaviour at the top level.

None of this happens in rugby; good humoured banter at the ref is one thing death threats, wishing cancer, assault and ultimately death is a direct result of pygmy minds not thinking it through.

"I have spoken to Mike Riley this week," Pulis told The Sentinel. "I find the whole situation disappointing week after week.

"Look at the incidents where our players are being booked or sent off, then compare them with similar incidents involving others that are going unpunished. There was the Clark one on Glenn at Villa.

"All we have ever asked is to be treated the same as everyone else, but there are preconceptions about us that are unfair."

Well played, Mr Moyes, if you ask me.

As a general point, this season has been absolutely incredible in the consistency of serious decisions going against. We have to speak about it, we have to have it known. To accept it as part of the game is to say the whole game is stupid and there's no point following it, and to not complain is to be willing to accept it continuing to happen.

Anyone still clinging to the idea that these things even themselves out has got some serious research to do.

"The RS would have been playing with 9 men but for two very dodgy decisions. Selective memory is supposed to be biased in favour of your team, not against."

Well said — I'm sick of hearing people bang on about the RS "goal" in the derby. It wasn't a goal. Next?

Everton are an attacking team. This influences the kinds of refereeing decisions that we get.

Attacking teams are much more likely to get penalty claims. So over time they're likely to get more penalties unjustly refused - and unjustly given. But given the extreme reluctance of refs these days to penalise fouls by defenders in the box, teams like Everton are likely to find that these decisions tend to go against them.

Look at what happens on corners. Refs often turn a blind eye to pushing and pulling on corners. When they do blow their whistle, it's usually for fouls by the attacking team (unless the attacking team happens to be Manchester City, but that's another story). And the keepers get over-protected. So again, attacking teams tend to lose out.

Nick, I agree with your comments to a certain extent, that attacking teams lose out on decisions more because by the very nature of their attacking play they will be in or around the opposition area more than a defensive, counter attacking team; however, that oft-used excuse for poor refereeing decisions is just a smokescreen FOR poor decisions.

Your observation that refs turn a blind eye to the most obvious of fouls in the area is, for me, one of the worst things about football. If a defender were to wrestle a forward to the ground in any other part of the pitch, it would be correctly whistled as a foul... but the spineless cretins in charge of the whistle these days are in fear of the Sky 4-5 to such an extent that they rarely give the correct call for a penalty — unless it is in the favour of Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, the RS or Arsenal. They are so shit-scared of Ferguson etc., that they rarely give anything against them.

I had to smile listening to Ferguson last week bemoaning the number of penalties awarded to Man City at home — 21 in two years — choosing to forget the astonishing number given to Man Utd at Old Trafford.

Interestingly, in derby games, we have had 2 penalties since the Prem started; the RS have had 8. And since derbies began, we've had 14, they've had 25. Quelle surprise!

When SAF says something, all the media sit up and listen.

To get the same coverage, Moyes necessarily has to do more, say more, say it more vociferously than someone like SAF.

If Moyes really wants to have something discussed in depth in lots of the main media outlets, if he wants have things discussed enough that it would make a ref think twice before giving a dodgy decision against us, then I'm afraid Moyes has got to start saying things that are outrageous enough to probably get fined for.

Effectively saying "I know the refs have a hard job so we'll have to see if it evens out over a season" isn't really radical enough to have the desired effect....certainly not to me anyhow.

How many decisions can you get right the first time you see them without looking at replays?

They need help and obviously that help has to work, not like that official behind the goal in Europe that refs seem to ignore.

Needs to be an observer with a radio link to the ref.

Even if he gets it wrong occasionally it still cuts the number of wrong calls.

When you think of the cash in football it should be affordable.

And we have had one penalty at Anfield in the last 75 years. One.

The game needs to adjust to the modern era. 2 refs on the pitch. That'll allow them to stay nearer the ball on their half of the pitch and give front and back coverage of mid-field play. One referree per game is a "tradition" thats time has passed.

Each weekend, and espcially on big games, I check out who's refing the match and more often than not groan. My brother doesn't look much and rarely cares. Ergo......

Our general gentlemanliness means we never rarely get the benefit of the doubt - unlike really ugly, win-at-all costs clubs, like Man Utd. We've had a really terrible season for refereeing decisions (again!).

Spot on Moyesie!