Battle of the Brittania ends all square

, 15 December, 261comments  |  Jump to most recent
Stoke City 1 - 1 Everton
Mirallas, Hibbert, Anichebe and Neville are out so Coleman and Naismith start.

Everton got into their usual stride with some fantastic passing moves, one a great series of exchanges that went down the left then over to the right, where Coleman picked out Jelavic, who supposedly is suffering form poor service. Well, no, a perfect opportunity to lash home and he fluffed it.

It got a bit scrappy after that, Everton wasting a corner and then struggling a little to get the ball back off Stoke, who won a corner themselves, Some shocking officiating saw Everton denied a corner after some more wide play by Jelavic, the linesman asking the ref what he should flag for!!!

From a Stoke corner, the ball was hedeed back to N'Zonzi who powered his free header straight at Howard's midriff. At the other end, Everton came very close, Shawcross clearing Naismith's scoop off the line after he beat Begović to the ball from a dreadful Jelavic miskick following a ball over that looked somewhat offside but was not called, much to the angst of the Stoke players.

Howard was further tested with some stong aerial balls that he was up to punching out. At the other, end, a goift after nice work and an easy cross that skipped off the head of Shawcross, stretching, and floated beautifully over Begović into the top corner of the Stoke goal. Finally a bit of luck goes Everton's way!

Everton came forward again with great passing, Pienaar pulling back the ball from the byline but behind most of the forward Everton players ... except Osman who had so much time to pick his spot and the 'fabulous little player' produced an absolutely atrociously incomprehensibly awful miss!!! Clever feet my arse. Totally abysmal.

A sleepy Everton let,Stoke came very close after the break, adam not quite getting enough contact at the near post on a clever ball that beat the Everton defence, Howard patting the ball back out to him as the defenders swarmed in to block a series of attempts and shots from Stoke that ended when Huth drove wide.

Then, off a nothing ball hoofed up from Shawcross, the ball bounced off Jones's head and in to the Everton goal after what can olny be described as a dreadful starfish faliling attempt at a save by Howard,

There was a lot of silly argy-bargy at a couple of Everton corners, and Fellaini ended up pushing his head into Shawcross as frustration at the man-handling got the better of him. A stupid thing to do but the referee should have been stronger acting on Stoke's infringements. It will be described as a headbutt, and Fellaini might be in trouble from the slo-mo replays...

The poor ref calls went in Everton's favour next. a Jagielka header being wrongly called as a goal kick and not a Stoke corner, which only enraged the crowd even more...

Jealvic appeared to go in with his forearm on Shawcross and more howls of derision from the crowd followed, but Halsey did not book the Everton forward. Barkley replaced Naismith fro his first appearance of the season, presumably fro his height and physical presence — a remarkable decision by Moyes, considering the young star had been sat on the bench unused in the last four games. Distin might have done better from a corner, heading wide. Begovic was apparently booked for time wasting...???

More feistiness as Jelavic knocked down Huth illegally after he himself was floored and drove in to fire wildly, but was called back. Jerome then got two bites of teh cherry and sliced the shot wide, with Peter Crouch the next addition to the home side's aerial arsenal as Everton struggled manfully to play their passing game.

A poor mistake from Barkley... no, it was Gibson of all people, allowed Jerome to fire in but a great save by Howard, and then Distin had to head away fro a cornerr almost on the line... a real chance for Stoke there...

Pienaar was chopped from behind to win a reasonably dangerous free-kick that Gibson swung very deep for a corner, and more physical silliness before it was taken.

Barkley showed some really enterprising touches but a cross on the run could have been directed better. Some clever play by Fellaini fed Coleman but he had trouble digging out the cross and it came to nought as the clock ticked down on the very predictable tied scoreline, Gibson's shot deflected out for a late corner. Fellaini looked to punch Shacross this tiime as he was again impeeded illegally... incredible that he wasn't sent off.

Pienaar got in a great run on goal but he overhit the last touch before hooking his shot poorly and that summed up a pretty horrible game.

Stoke City: Begovic, Wilkinson, Shawcross, Huth, Cameron, Walters, Whelan, Nzonzi, Etherington (85' Kightly), Adam (73' Jerome) Jones, (77' Crouch).
Subs: Sorensen, Palacios, Whitehead, Upson.

Everton: Howard; Coleman, Jagielka, Distin, Baines; Naismith (67' Barkley), Osman, Gibson, Pienaar, Fellaini, Jelavic.
Subs: Mucha, Heitinga, Oviedo, Hitzlsperger, Vellios, Duffy.

Referee: Mark Halsey

Michael Kenrick

Quotes or other material sourced from ToffeeWeb Match Reports



Reader Comments (261)

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Santosh Benjamin
1 Posted 15/12/2012 at 14:45:06
Any links to the game?
Ben Jones
2 Posted 15/12/2012 at 14:46:38
Everton websites saying Gueye, BBC's saying Oviedo. Hope BBC is right
Stephen Grabaskey
3 Posted 15/12/2012 at 14:55:16
Looks ok.. http://online--soccer.eu/channel2.html
Jamie Barlow
4 Posted 15/12/2012 at 14:56:43
http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/158830/1/watch-stoke-city-vs-everton-fc.html
Andrew Gilbert
5 Posted 15/12/2012 at 14:58:51
http://socsportslive.com/?htrtrhthrth superb pic here.
Jim Knightley
6 Posted 15/12/2012 at 15:11:52
Another fucking handball not given.
Jim Knightley
7 Posted 15/12/2012 at 16:09:40
It is literally like groundhog day... completely outplay an opponent in the first half, have a penalty not given, go in winning only one-nil, and then lose a goal in the second half. And another Howard mistake :(

We must get back on top. They expended alot of energy first half with their closing down, so fingers crossed it cost them in the end.

John Shaw
8 Posted 15/12/2012 at 16:12:53
Forget the decisions we do/don't get, how many times is Howard going to cost us ?? FFS !
Patrick Smith
9 Posted 15/12/2012 at 16:26:35
Stoke such a filthy team! Mo lost his head there massively and will be banned for a few games to come.
Tom Dodds
10 Posted 15/12/2012 at 16:52:28
Groundhog day.
Howard Howler.
No Shot Osman.
No Vellios for Osman and Fellaini should of been defending...

Full bloody stop
Anthony Jaras
11 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:00:07
Good point that.
Jim Knightley
12 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:03:00
Yeah, the result is good, but the likely loss of Fellaini for 3 games is really really not.
Bj�rn-Ivar Pedersen
13 Posted 15/12/2012 at 16:56:35
What I can never understand, is why that bloody twat Shawcroft always get away with his holding around Fellaini every time there is a dead ball.....but to day he had it coming....I loved it when big Fella headbutted that little shit.

Yes it was a hands on a goal bound ball....but things happens so fast you cannot expect a ref to see it all...that's just how humans are.....time to video referring has been beyond demand for quit some time.

And to all you Howard haters....like the Norwich game, also today Howard actually saved us a point.

But guys....we should feel okay with a point...after all we did not score today.
But West Ham I know we get 3 from.

Ray Roche
14 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:04:37
Jim Knightley @172

I agree with your comment about a good result, Stoke don't roll over for anyone, but the way Fellaini has shaped the last couple of matches he won't be missed. Am I just being cynical or did he want a sending off so that he can piss off back to Belgium for Christmas? ( it makes no difference if he's a Christian or not, it would still be a holiday time in Belgium or wherever)

Brent Stephens
15 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:08:32
Lpool game of the day. At least I can enjoy that.
Bj�rn-Ivar Pedersen - where did your parents get that name from?!
Jamie Barlow
16 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:01:26
How the fuck do Stoke get away with that?

I'm not having that the officials don't see all that crap that they get away with. It's like, ah, fuck it, its Stoke, they always do it. Dirty fuckers.

A good point for me. Its a tough place to go Stoke. A very physical side.

If only Ossie had put away that sitter, or the referee gave our weekly non penalty.

We're going to find out how we play without Fellaini for a few games over christmas. Surely a 3 game ban (maybe more) for a shocking headbutt, elbow, punch. Take your pick.

Phil Sammon
17 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:08:56
Fellaini was really stupid today. I hope Moyes fines him because that was unacceptable.

Shawcross is a nasty piece of work. We should have had a penalty at every set piece. Both arms around Fellaini all game. Still no need for that reaction though.

Also I was saying earlier that a real weakness is Pienaar and Osman's shooting. A few people disagreed and I hope to be soon receiving their apologies. Both missed absolute sitters.

I thought we were poor today but Stoke are a bunch of animals. I don't know how their fans sit through that every week.

Brian Dagnall
18 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:14:26
Did anyone notice for Stoke's goal, and for Norwich's goal 2 weeks ago, our goalie was way behind his own goal line while trying to save. Seems to be a loser to me ... a negative position to be in
Mike Oates
19 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:11:12
The last Pienaar miss and the Osman 1st half miss actually demonstrated to me the difference between us and the Utd, City's and even Spurs of this league. In Pinenaar's case any forward player from that group of teams would have picked his head up and rolled the ball to Barkley for at least a full shot an open goal . Any forward from the same group would have scored with the Osman miss - we lack true class up front, our players panic at the easiest chances, at the easiest set ups .

To compound it Howard slides from great to idiot , and you aint going to win anything or qualify for anything with people who don't score , and a goalie who drops a clanger every other game.

Steve Cotton
20 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:14:50
if I am not mistaken, the ref was looking at all the incidents so the panel cannot review them. The holding of Fellaini and Jelavic in the box from corners was a disgrace and won't receive any coverage — just the headbutt...

The twat deserved it too.
Drew Shortis
21 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:15:15
Stoke are a horrible team to play / watch - Yuk. It looks like the locals must like it to keep on filling the Britannia though. Despite all of their 'play' it was Everton who managed to give them the point. What on earth were Howard and Osman thinking about? Normally I would be happy enough with a point after a game like that, but we are drawing way to many this season so it really does feel like another two points dropped.

Shame about Fellaini's headbut. I thought he had grown up and was past all that stupidity. He does realise the games are filmed, right?

Gaute Lie
22 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:17:53
It should say Bjørn-Ivar.

Bjørn means bear, so better watch out for this crazy Norwegian.

Shame the refs all blind again. I do take comfort in the red shite's loss. Even though I know I should not. I just imagine the sad little face of camel-tooth up front. Love it!!

Steve Brown
23 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:20:26
Our thoughts go out to the Stoke season ticket holders who have to watch that every home game... that being said, Everton did not handle it very well and were knocked off their stride in the second half.
Ernie Baywood
24 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:18:17
Howard spends a lot of time in that position. Cost us against Norwich. Has cost us on a lot of long shots because he's scared of diving into the post. No idea why he does it.

Fella will rightly get a ban, but when are Stoke's tactics at corners going to get some attention?

John Ford
25 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:24:20
What a horrible, ugly spectacle. Shawcross can't be allowed to bearhug an opponent at every set piece. Fellaini should have pissed n moaned to the ref first time it happened and nagged him the whole game. As it is we're now without two of our best players over Christmas.

We deserved a point but Stoke messed us up today.

Paul McGinty
26 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:05:10
It will be a bit rich if Fellaini gets retrospectively suspended. Stoke want to disrupt and play physically. Thats their game . And Halsey certainly accommodated. Halsey warns Coleman early on , another foul and you are in the book, after his first foul on Etherington. Then he seemed to decide that the players can decide the outcome old school-style.Wilkinson basically fouled any time a blue shirt came near him and he just kept on doing it. So if the ref wants to let the players sort it out, the League cannot be picking and choosing what needs to be punished after the event.
As for the head-butt, for those of us who have been the recipient of one, theres usually a lump, a cut , a break etc. Shawcross is really physical , but he flops with the rest of them. Fellaini shoved his head into the guys face, but he didn't butt him.
That said, the shocking miss by Osman, a handball in the box goes against us, Timmy H gives up a poor goal and we blow it AGAIN.

Al Reddish
27 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:23:51
Everton manager David Moyes on Marouane Fellaini: "He deserves to get the punishment. I've seen it, it's a terrible thing to do and I expect him to be punished. It's down to the FA. I've told him it's not acceptable and whatever he gets, he and us deserve it."
Andy Meighan
28 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:23:37
A point is not to be sniffed at at that yard. How people pay to watch that every other week is beyond me — absolutely horrible side with dickhead horrible fans... but, like I said, not many will go there and win.

Why oh why can't Oman strike a ball? That side-footing nonsense gets on my tits. Give him a rest, Moyes, and give Barkley a run — he's not going be any worse. Thing is, he won't, will he? There's no way he'll upset the Finch Farm mafia.

On another note, I see the loveable Brenda being quoted as saying they could finish 2nd or 3rd this season! C'mon its not going to happen is it. Psssst... you couldn't get us some of them drugs you're on, could you?
John Ford
29 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:31:08
Paul it may not have been in the yozzer Hughes class but it was a headbutt, simple as.
He deserves what he gets.
Edwardo Edwardosson
30 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:27:56
Mike (#180).... I agree on that last Pienaar chance Barkley is WIDE OPEN in acres of space... can't believe such an experienced player with great vision doesn't pick him out and roll it to him for the winner... How great would that have been to have Barkley get us the win on the last kick of the game?!?

We were a bit shit all night... Osman, Naisy and Pienaar looked like Happy, Grumpy and Doc vs the Jolly Green Giants. Felli was neutralized, as well as Jelavic. The moaning and complaining from those two doesn't do us any favors and Felli will rightly get a ban. Jelavic hasn't offered much in link-up play or coming back to get the ball to start the counters. He is what he is... a goal shark who only needs one chance... I'm delighted to have him, but also interesting to see how much trouble Kenwyne Jones gives us as a target man... something Jelavic doesn't really do much.

Say what you want about Shawcross... he's effective. We've been linked with him and I'd be happy to have him on ours.

Bj�rn-Ivar Pedersen
31 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:25:59
Brent Stephens #176
My name...well I have an uncle named Ivar......and like Gaute say, Bjørn (Bjoern)= Bear. So I guess my mum was thinking of or saw a big fat brown one lurking in the bush when she gave birth to me.....I was born in the car in the middle of nowhere on the way to the hospital :O)
Henrik Lyngsie
32 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:33:14
Agree Ernie. I think Shawcross committed ten penalties in the sequence that led up to the headbutt from Fellaini. He hold Felli with both arms on all corners. Considering how City won a penalty against us, it is unbelievable that we don't get anyone today. Having said that I guess that Fellaini is in trouble.

And twice today Howard backed into his own goal like agianst Norwich I don't get i. Not much point in making a save if you are behind your own goalline.

Tom Bowers
33 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:30:31
A very predictble result given dour predictable Stoke's defensive record and Everton's weak midfield. We cannot win games because the combination of Osman,Naismith and Pienaar just isn't powerful enough.
We look a better team with Mirallas but now to lose him again and now Fellaini who is back to his old tricks of his first season will cost us dearly.
Naismith in particular is not up to snuff and Moyes has to forget he is a Scot and get more starts from Barklay and Oviedo.
We are crying out for a strong forceful midfielder like Yaya Toure.
Getting points over the next few weeks will be even mor difficult now and in fact we could drop down to seventh by Monday night.
Danny Kewley
34 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:13:39
Felllaini will no doubt get a ban. For letting his frustrations get the better of him against one of the dirtiest bastards in the league! Shawcross is a yard-dog but its on fucking tape for all to see fela nutted him good style! Stoke, by the way are surely one of the worst exponents of the beutiful game in history.
Stanley Mathews would cringe at their lack of style today.
Peter Leslie
35 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:08:37
You know what, this was the last straw for me with Howard: he is without doubt one of the most shambolic goalies in the league. Get shut.
And if it takes selling that stupid twat Fellaini to fund that and get in a decent second striker, that's fine. That self-indulgent muppet has fucked us today: a guaranteed 3 match ban over xmas period - the action of someone who either lacks big game temperament or doesn't give a fuck cos he knows he's off in January.
No provocation justfies snide headbutts (not once but twice) and worse, his behaviour has also made a joke of our efforts to get refs on side.
Brian Waring
36 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:35:00
If the Fa take any action, they will be spoilt for choice on which fuck - up by Fellaini to charge him with, as Jamie says, the elbow, the headbutt or the punch.
Colin Potter
37 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:30:49
If Fellaini is sold next month, people expecting £25-£30 million are going to be sorely disapointed. On that showing alone we will be lucky to get £5m.
Brent Stephens
38 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:41:32
Bjorn - nice story. A bear born in a car!
Brian Waring
39 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:42:44
Meant to say, what's really refreshing on here post match ( I know it's early days yet! ) that no - one is jumping to the defence of Fellaini for him being a total nob.
Patrick Murphy
40 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:47:33
Peter, I agree, Howard is a great shot-stopper but his presence as a GK is sadly lacking, it's hard to believe that was his 200th consecutive PL appearance today.

There must be a GK in our price range that can at least challenge TH for the shirt.

Roger Sunde
41 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:47:24
I guess Fellaini is on a plane to Belgium for his christmas vacation?
Steve Guy
42 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:49:06
Appreciate Moyes doing / saying the right thing. No doubt Fellaini will get a ban. I would hope for consistency in these post match retro punishments but you never get it and we have been victims a few times this season....not saying Fellaini should get away with it, I just want consistency applied.
Paul McGinty
43 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:37:30
John, theres no " may" about it. It was by any standard a piss poor attempt at a head -butt, If Shawcross is in the North Staffs infirmary , concussed or otherwise in distress then I stand corrected. Obviously it was a really stupid thing to do..But cmon, with what that ref let go, and at Stoke of all places, the land of the giants, the WWF of the Premier League, getting done for violent conduct when the other guy (I think) isn't hurt at all ....to me anyway is hard to take. I am waiting to hear TP get all self-righteous because he has only "honest" professionals at the Brittania.

Phil Sammon
44 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:54:56
The only thing that can safe Fellaini is if the ref says he saw the contact. Very unlikely I know.
Jamie Tulacz
45 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:57:44
I'll take a point out of that to be honest. Predictably ugly physical game against a side who don't try to play football but just try to make things a physical battle, albeit generally pretty successfully.

As for Felli, well deserves a ban for a least a couple of incidents, very predictable that Stoke were going to try to wind him up, and also predictable that he was going to bite and lose his rag.

Thought that Barkley played well when he came on and surely deserves a spot somewhere in that midfield, out wide in place of Naismith if necessary

Alistair Strachan
46 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:53:15
Osman is a "wonderful little player". He isn't the most dependable of finishers, agreed...but why does this board have to have so many casually dismissive and snide remarks about decent Blues?
Tony Marsh
47 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:09:07
Osman — a Premier League footballer? My Arse! Stevie Wonder would've taken that chance with Osman on his shoulders. It's a disgrace that an Everton player can't hit the target from 8 yards out with no-one on him and the goal wide open.

Osman is the luckiest man on the planet to have played so many games in the top flight. As for those who shout "He plays for England!" — well who selected him to do so? Yes, that's right — the manager we all call the worst ever seen on Merseyside... Dopey Hodgson, who ruined Liverpool, picks Leon fore England... go figure!!!
Paul Dark
48 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:07:53
It's hard to know where to start with Osman's shortcomings. I'm genuinely perplexed that so many rate him, not least of all Moyes.

Even the simple two-yard pass (his speciality) he rarely plays to the correct side of the player, often leaving him short or making him change direction unnecessarily. He misses important chances as today - always disappears in the big games, gives the ball away invariably when we have men committed forward (thereby putting inordinate pressure on our defence), loses the ball regularly - and balances out that litany of mediocrity with one one or two slightly more than competent things a game.

Simply not good enough!

Jamie Barlow
49 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:16:03
Paul Dark, what about Fellaini, Naismith, Gibson and most of the others?

In no way was Ossie worse than any of these today.

I thought he played well against a very physical side.

Phil Sammon
50 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:18:53
Completely disagree Paul.

He's a quality player, he just can't shoot. The same applies for Pienaar.

Paul Kelly
51 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:52:57
Moyes should come out and say something along the lines of " didn't see the Fellaini incidents but what I did see was the useless Fucking referee deny us a stonewall penalty for handball though, lets talk about that or any of the other million decisions that have gone against us this season which you have on tape!"

Can't see it happening though.

Paul Dark
52 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:16:09
Of course was Felli did was wrong. Like Duncan, he was seriously provoked, without any protection or fairness from the ref, and then when he lashes out (which was wrong), the critics only have swords for him. We should have had a number of penalties today. When will the FA enforce the obvious rule that: holding a player (in the box or not) is a penalizable oiffence?

I think the ref should also get a ban - along with quite a few of Stoke's rugby-tackling players. What they do is synonymous with cheating, in my view.

By the way, do Stoke have dispensation play to different rules from the rest of the PL (Man Utd excepted, of course) when they play at home - in terms of fouls etc.? It seemed like it today ... again. What about the thwack across Pienaar's mouth?

Rant over: it's just that we're (almost) always the victims ...

Paul Kelly
53 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:22:02
Did Moyes come out and condemn ratboy after the derby?
Paul Dark
54 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:23:28
Re Osman: yes, Phil, Paul, most do (disagree) - but it baffles me. I suppose it's about opinions.

He's a liability. And that's a fact, not an opinion ... [joke].

Tom Bowers
56 Posted 15/12/2012 at 17:39:00
Having seen the Fellaini incident over and over, whilst there is absolutely no excuse for his action I blame the gutless officiating to which I made refrence to earlier in the week concerning the clutching and grabbing by desperate defenders going unpunished except when it was Fellaini comitting such an offence against City recently .
Here, Halsey the referee had just warned Shawcross for his action and then blatantly ignores what Shawcross is doing just seconds later.To my mind Shawcross was the instigator unpunished by the referee until Fellaini took his own action.
This is absolutely gutless refereeing and the footballing authorities whilst banning Fellaini should also ban Shawcross for ''blatant manhandling an opponent'' before the headbutt.
They should also review the whole aspect of clutching,grabbing and shirtpulling and ensure referees are up to speed about stampinhg it out once and forever.
Phil Brown
57 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:33:56
Jamie # 206 Barkley should play behind Jelavic whilst Fellani is banned, he's got a really good shot on him.
Ian Allaker
58 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:30:11
Osmen is poor, always has been, I don't mind him being in the squad as he is a local lad who does his best but I don't know where this myth comes from that he is any good. How many times do we see the ball drop to Osmen in a great position only for him to pass it straight into the hands of the opsition keeper and then for most blues to come out with the usual shite, "unlucky ozzy good effort" Its not unlucky! Unlucky is when you normaly score those chances and miss the odd one, the fact is he regularily misses decent chances and luckily scores the odd one.

Barkley looked composed and assured today I would like to see him get a chance over Osmen, I am confident he wouldnt miss so many good chances, he actually has a good shot on him with enough power to get the ball off the floor when he shoots unlike Osmen.

Felliani has looked off the boil the last couple of games, its probably for the best that he gets banned for 3 games so his price doesnt drop in January when it comes time to sell him.

Paul Dark
59 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:39:30
#220: some sense about Osman at last. Barkley is a better player than him, a much better in: tackling, passing, holding off players, shooting, awareness of where he is on the pitch and so on.

I don't believe he's good enough for the squad.

Liam Morton
60 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:34:11
Tom Bowers I completely agree! There is obviously no defence for Fellaini but that entire incident could have been avoided if the referee grew a pair and gave a penalty. Having seen the penalty given against us at Man City just rubs it in really.
What amazed me the most was the referee told Shawcross to stop pulling, and despite being totally ignored he ordered the corner be re-taken when he kept doing it.

I am happy with a point but we had three great chances throughout the game and should of had numerous penalties for holding and a handball as well, not to mention insane goalkeeping for their equaliser.

I feel desperately sorry for the Stoke season ticket holders who have to watch that shower every week.

Trevor Lynes
61 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:33:30
Im afraid Felli will be out for at least three weeks and maybe even more.
If he had been yellow carded he would get away with it but not now under the cameras.

Fact is we now have Felli, Mirallas, Neville, Anichebe and Hibbert out without mentioning any further injuries.
We have no full back cover at all without pushing a centre back out of position.
Felli should be fined ALL his wages for the term of his punishment, its not the way a real team player acts.
He will be a marked man from now on.
I thought he had stopped getting himself booked for silly fouls and learned his lesson, but now he is back to square one.

Stoke are dreadful and Shawcross gets away with murder, but Felli fell right into their trap.
He has as much nous as Duncan Ferguson ie; NONE !!

Peter Laing
62 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:40:12
If Fellaini is suspended for the next game at West Ham and the home games against Wigan and Chelsea then surely Barkley deserves a chance to impress. I would also be inclined to go with Velios - replacing Naismith up front with Jelavic.
Paul Dark
63 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:48:15
Trevor: you're right, but easier said than done.

If one is CONSTANTLY fouled without referee protection, then some sort of lashing out is inevitable.

Lest we forget: both Duncan and Marouane are innocents when compared to those who knowingly provoke them.

Stoke have an old and good tradition, but under Pulis they are ugly, fraudulent and depserate. It's time something were done about their unacceptable behaviour. Horrible to watch.

Tony Cheek
64 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:46:25
No excuses Felli, but if he had to nut someone, Shawcross was a brilliant choice....a complete twat and the most overated pussy in the PL. I blleeding hate him, he gets away with murder every game, protected by gutless referees!
Have a nice christmas in Belgium Felli,.....wait a minute! that isn't why you done it is it?
Tony Cheek
65 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:52:26
oh.... anyone else want to tell me that Howard is worth his place in the team???.........TOSSPOT!
Tony Cheek
66 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:52:26
oh.... anyone else want to tell me that Howard is worth his place in the team???.........TOSSPOT!
Bj�rn-Ivar Pedersen
67 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:48:42
Guys....I feel you are very hard on Fellaini today....I am not his biggest fan, but today I have to stand up for him.
I have watched the three last matches against Stoke, and the same thing happen every time, that little weak shit Shawcroft always sabotage Fellaini by holding him when there is a dead ball....always.
So if the steam finally blow the gasket today,well like I said earlier...Shawshit had it coming his way. Probably Fellaini will have a reaction against him....fair enough...but in the same time they really should have a good look at shawcrofts chicken play and instruct the refs to keep an eye on him and react properly in the future....but I guess we can only wish and dream.
Tony Twist
68 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:00:36
It would be nice either vellios or barkley play if fellaini is banned. Barkley needs to play behind jelly if he is going to play, perhaps both will get their chance vellios playing first half and barkley second half. Fingers crossed for that if we have to do without the big man. Vellios and jelly could be a good partnership.
Paul Ferry
69 Posted 15/12/2012 at 18:55:26
Can't believe some of the utter blinkered shit I'm reading on here:

(174) What I can never understand, is why that bloody twat Shawcroft ... (177) barlow - 'Dirty fuckers.'

(187) Paul McGinty 'It will be a bit rich if Fellaini gets retrospectively suspended. Stoke want to disrupt and play physically' (213) paul dark 'when when he lashes out ... '

Fucking pathetic. 'Lashes out' singular not plural Paul Dark: the stupid fucker headbutted, then elbowed and then smashed Rawcross — three times!!!! Barlow, you call Stoke 'dirty fuckers', how about calling prick Fellaini 'dirty fucker'? 'That bloody twat Shawcross': am I the only one on here who was amazed at his professionalism after he was assaulted THREE TIMES by prick Fellaini, didn't make a meal of any of them, complained once, rightly, to the ref after that disgraceful head butt which made me utterly ashamed to be a blue. And, worst of all, fucking McGinty's goat — ''It will be a bit rich if Fellaini gets retrospectively suspended'. Utter fucking bollocks. Like Moyes who has more dignity in his little finger than that out-of-order Belgian twat had on the pitch today, Fellaini should be rightfully suspended for 3 games. Each one of those three assaults on Shawcross deserved a red card. Pathetic McGinty, own up, man up, accept it, thuggery is not acceptable on the ptich in any shape or form, and deal with it, Stoke are physical, we knew that, but there was not a single mutant player who came anywhere near the fucking thuggery of that Belgian liability today.

Why didn't Moyes sub him? If we can get 25 mill sponds plus for the Belgo hothead sell him at once. And the good news: well done Coleman, well done Gibbo (what a ball for the first chance for Jelly), well done Ross in a 20 mins bout that showed touch and nous a million miles distant from Nayshit, and well done Distin. More bad news: Howard yet again cost us a goal.

Just because it's one of ours who THREE TIMES assaults an opponent does not mean that some of you on here can turn a blind eye to it or, more pathetically, moan about mutant Stoke.

Andy Crooks
70 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:06:48
It is good to hear David Moyes being forthright in his condemnation of his own players actions. If only he would do the same to the opposition. His response to Nolan's assault on Anichebe was that he isn't that sort of lad. He was and he is.
Ian Allaker
71 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:00:51
Tony, I can't believe I am going to say this but I am starting to think Howard is letting them in on purpose. His non-attempt to save the ball today looked so un-natural there was something very suspicios about it, and there have been a few occasions this season when I have been left in disbelief how the opposion have scored, especially when they have scored their only attempts at goal.

Some of Howard's attempted saves look as though he has delibratley not stretched his arms as much as he could or not jumped as high as he can, saves that I have seen him save with ease in the past and any decent keeper should have been able save. We need to find a keeper in January or 4th place will be a distant memory.

Sam Jennings
72 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:08:21
Fellaini is looking at a lengthy ban here...
more than one count of violent conduct
Bj�rn-Ivar Pedersen
73 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:12:50
Okay......some of you do have good arguments against Howard.
But the only goalie I really want to see between the sticks might be to costly for us, only a sale of Fellaini could finance that move, and on the other hand I am not sure if he would sign for us.....the fella is Germans number two, Rene Adler.
Gavin Ramejkis
74 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:23:46
Sam et al, the FA didn't bother their collective arses when that buck toothed animal stamped on a Wigan player as the ref didn't mention it in his match report thus falling through a gap. Neither the ref or his assistants made any mention of it or took any action during the game. Using the logic those despicable bastards across the park got away with it then I would use the exact same terms of reference and demand Fellaini not get a ban - as mad as it is the broken logic of the FA has already been seen in that game.
John Dubay
75 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:14:29
Heard big Nev saying that Howard doesn't need competition. I agree. He needs to be dropped.

Nev also said that Howard has made mistakes but they haven't cost us games. He obviously hadn't seen the Newcastle, Norwich and Fulham matches. Sorry Nev, you've got that wrong big time mate.
Paul Kelly
76 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:14:46
Andy #233

Glad someone is on the same wave length as me.

Moyes needs to be more 'nasty', less honest so go speak. When an incident with one of our players happens like today he should ignore it and focus on the inadequancy of the refs . Point out the 'penalty' , the constant fouling at corners of which were the only team to be Fucking punished.

Jamie Barlow
77 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:27:40
Paul Ferry, put your drink down and read my post again.

I've said Felli deserves a ban for his "shocking" headbutt, elbow or punch.

I don't know whether you've seen the game yet but I'll stand by my "Dirty fuckers" if that's alright with you.

Patrick Murphy
78 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:27:44
Gavin that's a good point well made , but it begs the question if Halsey and his assistants did see it why didn't he take the appropriate action and if he didn't how can he possibly put it in his report?
John Dubay
79 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:34:23
What's happened to this Craig Gordon thing?
Gavin Ramejkis
80 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:39:54
Patrick I'd be amazed if it appears in their match report as the first question I'd be asking if it did was "Why didn't you take any action there and then?" its a sly trick to use but I'm fed up of this goody two shoes shite that gets us nowhere, the RS set the precedence this season with that deliberate stamp in the Wigan game, never mind adding the Mirallas and Distin stamps.
Jamie Barlow
81 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:41:07
The thing is though Gavin, although they shown the Suarez incident on Motd, they never mentioned it after when analysing the game so it was conveniently forgotten about by the FA.

Watch how much of Fellaini they show tonight. They'll go to town on him.

Gavin Ramejkis
82 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:47:52
Jamie the trial by TV card can't be used in the FA's own rulebook it states the incident has to be contained in the match officials report, the only other route beyond that for punishment is the police for an assault charge which they have to do at the time of the incident being in situ but which I've never seen done in the English pro leagues.

The FA have hamstrung themselves with that rule, if they turn it from TV evidence the club could take legal action citing the RS v Wigan game

Paul Kelly
83 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:34:14
Gav #237.

Though you right. They'll throw the book at fellaini. It will be highlighted on every footy programme from here to the moon whereas if a red cunt does it ie. ratboy they just ignore it.

Never used to believe in conspiracy theories but now .....

Jamie Barlow
84 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:50:17
I was under the impression that if the referee says he seen the incident but didn't act on it, the FA can't do anything about it.

It's if the referee didn't see it when the FA can step in and give a ban.

Gavin Ramejkis
85 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:52:48
I agree the TV will go to town on it but the rules are there, personally I think he should be banned for what he did. The law can be an absolute arse but its all about how it is consistently and fairly applied - previous cases are always cited. The FA made this specific rule and that should be the challenge point. If anything I can see the ref and his assistants being deep in the shit over taking no action at the time.
Gavin Ramejkis
86 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:58:34
Jamie, this is the report into how the Wigan stamp avoided a ban - http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/premier-league-suarez-wriggle-ban-ankle-stamp-103822179.html
Jamie Barlow
87 Posted 15/12/2012 at 20:05:20
Ive never seen or heard that before. I just thought he got away with it.

Did the Fellaini incident happen on the ball and in the run of play though.

Peter Cummings
88 Posted 15/12/2012 at 20:10:44
The outcome was predictable and Fellaini should have gone after the head butt. As for the game, it was a disgrace to the EPL; foul after foul no continuity, no flow, although we tried against a bunch of talentless thugs.

How the hell does Howard keep his place? We see the same performance in every game: no domination of his area and punching out to the opposition instead of catching. Time and time again, he screws up and costs us points. Hardly a shot on goal for the whole 93 mins from either side, total unacceptable garbage.
Liam Morton
89 Posted 15/12/2012 at 20:35:32
The length of the ban will be an interesting one. Things like this are usually 3 matches but it could be argued that he deserves more for 3 acts of violent conduct, remember Joey Barton last season when they accumulated all of his violent acts in that moment and hit him with 12 matches? On the other hand however I remember when the FA appealed to UEFA to reduce a Rooney suspension for kicking a Montenegro player off the ball, they succeeded in having his ban reduced from 3 games to 2.

They could be guilty of double standards here so what they do will be intriguing...

Kunal Desai
90 Posted 15/12/2012 at 20:48:00
Just back home and no surprise another draw. Appears we had chances to go 2 up but like so many occasions we seem to rue those missed chance....same ol same....looks like i've not missed much.
James Morgan
91 Posted 15/12/2012 at 20:47:28
Don't know if anyone has mentioned it but can't we claim that headbutting is a greeting ritual in Belgium and all the players wear Fellaini t-shirts in the West Ham warm up?
Trevor Lynes
92 Posted 15/12/2012 at 20:40:44
The thing that is missed by all the defenders of Felli is the fact that apart from Duncan Ferguson I have not seen any other player blatantly butt an opponent.
The cameras do not miss anything and if we happen to have an idiot who does it so stupidly then he deserves all he gets.

He could be prosecuted if Shawcross complains to the police and thats a fact !!

Im just sad that it has to be an Everton player and luckily our manager has come out and castigated Felli on TV otherwise it would reflect very badly on our club.
At least DM has not avoided the question by saying he didn't see the incident as so many others do.
DM has faults but he is an honourable person who does not condone thuggery by players.
Other clubs managers should learn from his honesty.

If any other team are watching the incident on TV Felli will be baited in every game he plays from now on, he has become a liability.
Just think of the stupid damage he has caused to our clubs credibility and his future career.

Patrick Murphy
93 Posted 15/12/2012 at 20:58:36
Maybe DM is being a little more cute than some believe, whatever happens to Felliani (deservedly so by all acounts) Moyes will have the opportunity to question the strange behaviour of officials in most of our games this season.

Not many players or indeed managers will be as familiar with the rules as David Moyes and I'm pretty sure if he has the chance he will have some tough questions for the FA.

Ken Buckley
94 Posted 15/12/2012 at 21:07:15
No 255
Trevor do you remember Beattie headbutting a Chelsea player from behind after only about 6mins and to make sure he made his point he did it twice. He only got 3 games.
Fellaini is young enough to do something about his temper. He is not the first and wont be the last to lose it. He needs either to curb it or be far more adept at getting his retaliation in first.
Paul McGinty
95 Posted 15/12/2012 at 20:53:06
Paul Ferry, "fucking Mcgintys Goat"...not the most original but points for the self-righteous tone of your piece. I could have done without the expletives ...is it just me but it doesn't sit well when someone (you) is tossing the insults around from the safety of their digital device. I will however adopt the approach of my new role model..Ryan Shawcross and not report your frankly thuggish abuse to the team at Toffeeweb Towers. COYB
Steven Telford
96 Posted 15/12/2012 at 19:58:40
I respect that he is not one of those managers who '"does not see it" but I think Moyes could be a bit more strategic in what he says in interviews. Gove the FA a bit of food for thought and hopefully leave them taking I into account that it was a football team against a rugby team.
The commentator was stalking so much shit about MF, blowing it all out of proportion.

SP should have out that last chance away……. And as for Ozzie…….. well best not say any more about that.

Roman Sidey
97 Posted 15/12/2012 at 21:34:54
Only got to see highlights on Fox, which means two goals and the headbutt. I've defended Howard before, but what on Earth was he doing? Was he wrong footed? Was the cross and header against the run of play? I feel players have been dropped by Moyes for similarly calamitious acts, but will Howard warm the bench next week? Doubt it.

Colin Wainwright
98 Posted 15/12/2012 at 21:28:56
#232. "Belgian liability"?

Have you been waiting all season to get that in? Absolutely fuckin' ridiculous comment.

Paul Smith
99 Posted 15/12/2012 at 21:54:46
Paul Ferry: Throws a hand grenade and everybody bites.

Back to the game.
Awful affair at the Britannia today. It went pretty much to form two teams whom draw a lot, guess what? they draw. Gutted about Fellaini, they wound him up proper, still he`s a pro and should be able to deal with it sensibly instead of being reduced to Stokes level.

Looking forward to coming to Liverpool for Christmas and going to the Wigan game, unfortunately it looks like Fellaini and super Kev wont be joining me.

Drew O'Neall
100 Posted 15/12/2012 at 21:50:33
I saw bits and pieces of the game on a stream today and the thing tha struck me was how often our defenders went high get out ball which resulted in an at best 50/50 with a >6'2" Stoke player.

I thought we handed them a foothold in the game by not using the ball back to the keeper or ball across the back line.

Using Fellaini as an outlet want going to work consistently today and I feel we missed the opportunity to pick up three points from an eminently winnable fixture.

Tom Bowers
101 Posted 15/12/2012 at 22:01:04
With Mirallas and Fellaini guaranteed to be missing for at least 3 games it's time for other players to step up to the plate and prove their worth providing Moyes has the guts to play them.
The inability to win games just proves the team he picks is not good enough.
Forget last weeks lucky win against Spurs and forget we are in fourth spot. That can all change pretty quickly,if not by Monday then certainly by year end.
Osman and Niasmith have had their chances now let's see the others getting their's.
Velios, Barklay,Oviedo are deserving of their chances and should now have sufficient experience to step in from the start. How many more drawn games will wake Moyes up to the fact.
With no money available in January it is essential the ''fringe'' players are used more extensively at the expense of those who are underachieving
Jim Knightley
102 Posted 15/12/2012 at 21:58:03
Paul Ferry...seriously? Pretty much every poster on here has bemoaned Fellaini's stupidity, and those pointing to Stoke's play are correct...they kicked us, pushed us and pulled us the whole match...Fellaini should not have reacted the way he did, it was idiotic, but Stoke use every unhanded technique available to them, to gain an advantage. They don't have an excuse anymore..they speak plenty of money on Crouch, and Jones, and on others...what they play isn't football.

And why would Moyes take Fellaini off? take our top scorer off, and our tallest player, against Stoke? he has been one of the league's best footballers this season...it is amazing how quickly some fans could turn.

And Howard can't warm the bench unfortunately Roman..because Mucha has looked very poor in every appearance he has made for us. I really don't know what he was doing for their goal though..just seemed to lose his positioning. We could really do with a capable backup...or Friedel or Given for six months?

And Fellaini will get 3 matches...the headbutt was obvious and poor...the other incidents were less so.

Roman Sidey
103 Posted 15/12/2012 at 21:40:15
And did the game not warrant any more than one sub?
Ray Roche
104 Posted 15/12/2012 at 22:14:07
Roman, I'm sure I saw Vellios getting stripped to come on but for some reason sat back down. Might have helped.
Phil Sammon
105 Posted 15/12/2012 at 22:18:57
Tom Bowers

'Forget last weeks lucky win against Spurs and forget we are in fourth spot.'

The stupidest sentence I've read all day. So basically forget all the good stuff we've done and concentrate on the negative.

Ben Jones
106 Posted 15/12/2012 at 22:35:35
For god sake, some ridiculous comment on here!

Osman has one bad game, and typical Marsh-esque fashion, he's not even a Premier League footballer? What a load of crap! He's been so consistent this season, and one bad game, everyone starts over exaggerating and over reacting.

Lucky to get 5m for Fellaini? Yeah he played bad too, but wait a sec, how many points has he won for us this season? Yeah, he did a stupid headbutt, he deserves a lengthy ban, but he has contributed a lot to us this season.

Seriously, get a grip

Brent Stephens
107 Posted 15/12/2012 at 22:42:49
Osman's miss was terrible. Has to be and has been said. But watching the game on live stream and on again tonight apart from that he played very well. He's not in the side to score goals but to do another job. If a striker misses one, we don't say he's shit just cos of that.
Gerard McGregor
108 Posted 15/12/2012 at 22:51:21
The case of the Maroune Fellaini being adjudged to have committed the “heinous crime” of attacking one of Stoke City`s highly-paid thugs should depress any fan of football. The most frustrating thing about professional football is not the absence of technology that would prevent referees from destroying games by making the wrong decisions about offside and balls crossing the goal-line. It is the continued acceptance of intimidating foul play, particularly heavy weight defenders grabbling in penalty area, like they were rugby players in a ruck, with skilful forwards and getting away with it. Stoke City have been mugging good footballing teams for several seasons now and I come to dread Everton`s game against them.

Now, Fellaini is going to get branded as a violent player just because he finally let his frustration get the better of him. It reminds of the similar branding of Duncan Ferguson. The Guardian listed him in their ten most violent footballers when in fact if they had just listed the victims of his attacks they would have had a more legitimate list. Sadly, one of my most satisfying moments in football was seeing Duncan trying to strangle Stefan Freund; it was something that I had wanted to see happen for a long time.

Ian Allaker
109 Posted 15/12/2012 at 22:49:52
Tom, what are you talking about saying it was a lucky win against Spurs? What was lucky about it? The only luck was spurs deflected goal out of nothing.

Ben, Osmen has been consistantly average at best his whole career. He has 1 good game in 5 the other 4 games he is either non existant or gives the ball away constantly. He can do a job in cm when every other midfielder is injured otherwise he should be on the bench.

Roger Sunde
110 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:23:51
The bright side is that were gonna see Barkley alot now.
Nick Millington
111 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:44:00
Match of the day slating Fellaini for headbut, nobody saying they should have had penalty for pulling back. Remember Man City getting one for far less pulling.
Phil Sammon
112 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:45:51
Not a single mention of Shawcross having Fellaini in a bear-hug then. Classic MOTD.
David Barks
113 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:46:59
Nick,

Exactly what I said after the City game when people came on here defending the ref for calling the penalty against us (which so many Evertonians seem to love to do, always taking the side against Everton). They said it was a penalty, I said they are only given against the likes of us when playing the likes of City, United or Chelsea. When the same happens to us, every single commentator will to a man say it happens on every play and "not a penalty for me". And that's exactly what happened all match today. Stoke just bear hugged our players and pulled them back during every set piece, throwing little sly elbows in the ribs and taking little kicks to the shins.

The commentator even stated when Huth went through the back of one of our players "nice sly shove in the back by Huth there". It's amazing and so pathetic to watch and listen to. Praising a clear foul against us, and then basically treating Fellaini as though he was going around kicking little children. Shawcross knows exactly what he's doing and there is a reason why many players didn't want him called up to their national side. Fellaini lost his cool and will be punished. But Stoke will get away with it again, all their tackles from behind which are supposed to be an automatic yellow card went unpunished, and the commentators at the beginning of the next match will talk about how "tough to break down and physical" they are. I might just give up and start watching La Liga, they play football there, not rugby. If I want to watch Rugby I want to know that my team can fight back the same way.

Patrick Murphy
114 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:47:44
6 - 9 game ban are you having a laugh Lawrenson , BBC I'll never watch another MOTD or MOTD2 even if Everton beat Liverpool 10-0.

Fellaini deserves punishment , but if the ref had have seen it he would have got no more than 3 possibly 4 game ban.

Was ratboy not a 'Thug' when he took out Mirallas and Distin?

I hope Stoke kick the RS off the park on Boxing Day then let's see what MOTD say about them.

If anyone doubts that there are dark forces out there, then you only have to watch how double standards are applied especially IMHO by the BBC.

Where was the praise given to David Moyes for his honesty.

When Everton had the 'Dogs of War' tag the BBC wrongly kept using it as a derogatory term in relation to Everton's style of play.

I can't remember any Everton side resorting to tactics regularly employed by Stoke City, but that's OK isn't it!


Andy Crooks
115 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:47:56
I have just seen Fellaini hung out to dry on match of the day. He was wrong, no doubt. However, has Lawerenson ever used "thuggery" to describe the deliberate attempts of Suarez to end careers?

I admire the honesty of David Moyes but sometimes it seem that we are the only fucking honest club in the league. Quick to condemn our own and quick to excuse others.

It was a robust game and Shawcross gave as good as he got. Moyes should have predicted this in his pre-match press conferences. The referee should have been made aware that Moyes knew what would happen.

Ian Smitham
116 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:47:48
What Fella has done is wrong. That we have a player who will battle with the likes of Sharwcross is good, we are too soft at times with teams that want to mix it. He has apologised to all, well done, not that it will help. Nor will Lawro, FFS I have just heard him say that our man may be banned for 6 or even 9 games. I think Moyes is trying to deflect the FA by emphasising how bad he sees the incident and how he will deal with it, well done.

Fella is doing his job and doing it to the best of his ability, looking the part, maybe someone should ask Lawro what he thinks he looks like, what with his hair, his shirt and his gut all hanging out, before he starts throwing stones he ought to have a look at himself.

Roman Sidey
117 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:48:39
Currently watching the full replay. The headbutt seriously wasn't that bad. Idiotic yes, but I've seen worse. I have grown up in Australian pubs though so that doesn't say much.

On Howard, I think he has an eye sight problem. Not having a go, and I think his ability is top class. But if you look at his howlers, he usually seems to miss a hand on the ball (as he did last night) or misjudge the depth of the cross/long ball. He's in is early-mid 30s, and eye deterioration is common at this age. Does anyone know if he wears contacts?

Drew O'Neall
118 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:56:41
Having just seen the Fellaini incident(s) I just have to say that I'm extremely disappointed in him. That was exactly the sort of pounding he should have been handing out to Luis Sewers during the derby.
Jamie Barlow
119 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:51:05
Pulling and bear hugging and wrestling at corners isn't something new is it? It happens every game with every team. We do it. It all looks a bit trivial now compared to Fellainis antics.

He lost his head big time. Whether they wound him up doesn't matter.

I just hope Lawrenson isn't right. Seems to me he's just tried to get the ball rolling for a pretty long ban(twat).

Ben Jones
120 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:49:53
Ian, what are you talking about?

If he was that bad, then how the hell are we in the top 4 at the moment? "Osmen" is just a scapegoat, he has one bad game and everyones all over him

Steve Sweeney
121 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:56:31
Lawrenson is a big fucking shithouse
6 or 9 match ban you fucking arsehole.
OK he retaliated but Shawcross should not have been on the pitch,he
Constantly was holding Fellaini, we should have had at least 2 penalties
for holding if the one City got against us is anything to go by.
Fucking FA will probably make an example tho and we will do itching about it.
FFS didn't Shawcross break Ramseys Leg
He is an excuse or a footballer yet MOtD make out he is a saint.
Patrick Murphy
122 Posted 16/12/2012 at 00:00:53
Howard it appeared to me was trying to catch the ball rather than diving to keep it out, whatever he was doing it was a real howler and he has had more than a couple this season. How are we so high in the league? albeit temporarily.

Maybe BK has bonuses lined up for those players who make cock-ups or get suspended in order to save him from buying anyone anytime soon. I wouldn't put it past him. Far too expensive for him if we qualify for the CL, much better just jogging along in the top 10.

Ian Smitham
123 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:59:11
Guys, sorry about my speed of typing, my comments are just echoing the speedier on the keys than me. Thankfully the views seems consistent .

Only other offering is that the Stoke player does not make a meal of it, he knows what he is,and he has taken what is coming to him, ugly but rightly or wrongly, part of the game, no quarter asked or given.


Bj�rn-Ivar Pedersen
125 Posted 15/12/2012 at 23:59:24
Have you guys heard about the invisible player?
Maybe this have never been used lately in EPL, but I remember back when Man City had Kinkladze, he was totally invisible, til it counted as most, them he appeared out of nowhere and made goal.....well honestly Osman is not near kinkys class, but Osman do a job on the team witch is not always visible, there must be a reason DM is picking him every time, there must be a reason for him to be picked to the England A-team of late...so some good do he have to do...every match....yes yes, take him out and play Ross, but till now Ross is not better than Leon...and Leon and Gibson function well together...............well okay...today I might have a "defend the grab gaffe" defense day...but still.
Ian Smitham
126 Posted 16/12/2012 at 00:07:12
Patrick, have you struck upon a point? Is there a similarity between the goal today and the Fulham game
Ian Allaker
127 Posted 16/12/2012 at 00:04:45
Ben, we are top 4 because there are about 8 teams on near enough the same points as us and the rest of the team has carried Osmen for years.

Roman I agree with you about Howard, a few weeks ago I woke up with blured short range vision in my right eye and my peripheral vision is affected as well. The doctor said I have a globule of fluid on my eye.

From what I can see, he's either got eye problems are he is delibrately letting goals in because some of the goals have looked very strange.

Ian Allaker
128 Posted 16/12/2012 at 00:17:42
Osmen has played one meaningless friendly for England in a time when every tom dick and harry gets a game,and we were beaten comfortably by Sweeded. To top it off he was picked by Roy Hodgson which doesnt say much.

The main reson Ozzy always gets picked is coz we have a very small squad and our midfielders are always injured while ozzy hardly ever gets injured. Moyes is also know for having his favourites, hopefully ross gets his chance and scores a few goals and take ozzys place before the end of the season.

Phil Sammon
129 Posted 16/12/2012 at 00:32:28
The reason OSMAN plays is because he is a very good footballer. He keeps the ball and his close control is as good as anyone's.

Sick of the vitriol at our own players.

Aiden Doyle
130 Posted 16/12/2012 at 00:38:47
"...the rest of the team has carried Osmen ...

Typo aside, those are the the right words in the wrong order.

Mark Wilson
131 Posted 16/12/2012 at 00:18:40
Given he has already been suspended this season and the hatchet job done on him by MOTD, I think Felli is getting four games, and maybe even five. A few of the comments here are frankly beyond belief, even by TW standards. Look, Fellani has, for most but definitely not all, of the season been one of the top midfielders in the country. He has been unplayable in quite a few matches, he is a game changer and is worth £25m of anyone's money. But, he is far from perfect and has a nasty side to him when he feels provoked as he surely was at Stoke today. He also has an equally bad habit of simply not turning up for some games ie West Brom, Wigan, Spurs and today though shackled and bullied by Stokes centre backs he just never got into the game and looked uninterested from what I've seen in a limited viewing of 55 mins worth of highlights.

He's going to get a ban he deserves and we are going to need to cope or this will derail our season if we somehow play as if Fellani is our one man team. Given other absences through injury now is surely the time to see if Ross B can step up and play just behind Jela. Will our notoriously cautious manager take the chance on this kid so many rate so highly ? I hope so. We need to know if he has it in him and give him the chance to show he's more than hype.

The season just got a lot tougher.

Ian Allaker
132 Posted 16/12/2012 at 00:43:39
I agree Phil, he probably has the best first touch in the league but equally has one the worst second touches in the league. He is the epitome of the a player who flatters to deceive.

Aiden are you suggesting Osman has carried the rest of the side for years?

Paul Kelly
133 Posted 16/12/2012 at 00:34:50
So that ex-RS twat reckons 6-9 games. Unbelievable isn't it.

Refused to watch MotD knowing something would be said and the remote would ended going through the screen.

Takes me back to the derby and having read the papers the following day, one match report stated Mirallas turned his own ankle. Not one fucking bad word to say against that buck-toothed dirty horrible shite they call Saurez.

It seems we're always going to get the bad press, we know it on here.

Moyes should speak out more against the officials, players should comment more through the media. Let's make an uproar about it. Stop playing the nice guy/team. It's getting us nowhere.

Haven't heard one pundit mention the inept refereeing that cost us a penalty. We should make that our priority, or the fact Stoke continually foul. Why we were punished against Citeh yet got nothing today.

It would certainly take the spotlight of Fellaini, whether he's done wrong or not.

Andy Crooks
135 Posted 16/12/2012 at 00:49:06
Phil #299 good post. Osman should have won the game today but sitters get missed and I thought he did okay. All I expect of our players is effort and usually we get it.

Sadly. though goal keepers aren't judged on how hard they try. Tim Howard really is starting to spread fear. I would have expected my mother-in- law to have looked less foolish than he did at Stoke's goal. If he is the best goal keeper at the club then David Moyes has failed abysmally in that area. Mucha must really be woeful.

Mark Wilson
136 Posted 16/12/2012 at 01:04:59
Any 306# don't you think Moyes simply has to prioritise his meagre resources and hope that Howard doesn't mess up too many times as Mucha is best non playing keeper we can afford. I'd take a risk on Gordon. Having said this if others had taken simple chances we wouldn't be too upset at Howard's cock up and to be fair his later saves kept the one point we had. West Ham next week feels like a massive game as by then we will be in 5th or 6th after Sundays games. I'm sensing that West Ham could turn us over if we go into the game with a a felli hangover and to be onset those last few mins against Spurs apart, we have been struggling recently and badly need a clean sheet and a classy win to regain momentum.
Noel Early
137 Posted 16/12/2012 at 01:19:08
I'm most annoyed about Fellaini taking the spotlight away from that SHITHOUSE of a goalkeeper we have. Seriously, how long does that muppet stay in goals for us? Afraid of the goalpost now, Tim, as well as crosses. Nearly got sick with all the compliments he received on Sky today. Muppet is what he is.
Patrick Murphy
138 Posted 16/12/2012 at 01:24:52
How many games since we had a clean sheet? Must be getting close to an Everton record.
Derek Thomas
139 Posted 16/12/2012 at 00:31:05
Answer me these:

How many players this season SHOULD have been punished retrospectively??

How many players actually HAVE been punished retrospectively??

Just what do the Rules state about what constitutes a foul ( in the box and thus a penalty ).

Is there an Official criteria for retrospective punishment.

And are ' They' all going to pounce on Fellaini just coz the TV got a good clear picture of the incident...I think we all know the answer to that one.

Opinion 1) : You can't, or shouldn't change the interpretation half-way through the season.

Opinion 2) : FIFA have a basoc set of rules that cover all games from the World cup Final down to the local park.

If the Reff didn't see it ( like the whole of the ball being across the whole of the line illustrations on their website, 4 pictures, not over, not over, still not over, Over! ) then officially, It didn't happen, until a set retrospective procedure is laid down that makes one law for everybody.

Paul Ferry
140 Posted 16/12/2012 at 03:59:09
Jeez (282) — MotD didn't mention a erm 'bearhug'? Bearhug, headbut, elbow, punch, much of a muchness, really, eh?

And Jamie Barlow — have the fucking decency to call Fellaini a dirty fucker' fool, there's nothing at all in your arid post that does you any good. And 'Belgian liability'? Too right when he behaves like that and gets a ban. If that had been fucking sewer-rat or Barton or whoever, Barlow and Co would be screaming blue murder.

So, yes a liability and I have sung him to the highest heavens but I won't take shit like that okay. Fuck me, Barlow and Co need to get an ounce of the decency and dignity that Moyes showed post-match.

And McGinty, really, report to ToffeeWeb Towers, I think not, grow up.
Simon Watts
141 Posted 16/12/2012 at 04:14:09
I agree Fellaini was wrong, but what I find hard to believe is Moyes comments, and the way he portrays it all compared to other managers. Especially about penalties. If he uses the "sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't" excuse in an interview, I will throw my laptop through the window.

It is ok being the most honest team in the world, but at least make an issue of it in the interview. I remember going a whole season without a penalty even though having the most fouled players. This nicey nice thing towards the PFA does not work. Suarez stamping on two of our players he does not mention it. Like it never happened. He should offer more protection to the players, and defend them.

I'm not saying Fellaini, he should have ignored it, but at least point to the fact he is consistently blatantly fouled and man handled, has his feet stood on etc. I would lose my rag if this happened week after week. If Fellaini sneezes on a player, they go down like they've been shot.
Edward Simpson
142 Posted 16/12/2012 at 05:49:38
I think I'm fed up of talking about Fellaini now, whatever ban he gets, 3, 4 or 5 it doesn't matter, it's what we do as a team now in this tough group of fixtures without Fellaini.

I want to see Barkley play in place of him or put Osman on the right with Naismith behind Jelavic. Maybe this is the first time we get to see the old partnership again.
I think the negativity has started to creep in again, it was a good result and we did it when Fellaini was almost non-existent today (similar to West Brom/Wigan games).

I'm sure we'll cope, and the best thing to do is to move on and focus on next weeks game.

Anthony Jaras
143 Posted 16/12/2012 at 06:17:33
What Fellaini did was a disgrace. Three separate violent conduct incidents. He deserves a big ban, like any other player who does the same. Barton anyone? End of.

He obviously wanted Christmas off. Now he's got it. Well done Fellaini.

I can't be arsed with him after that.

We are better than that sort of behaviour.

Anto Byrne
144 Posted 15/12/2012 at 21:55:02
Great opportunity for Barkley to step up if Felli gets a ban. I only wish Moyes had come out and defended his player as an old-fashioned "handbags" scuffle and a bit of play acting from Shawcross.
Peter Barry
145 Posted 16/12/2012 at 07:54:52
Player violence is not good enough. Another draw is not good enough. Referees are not good enough. Naismith is not good enough. Moyes's tactical ability is not good enough.
Peter Barry
146 Posted 16/12/2012 at 07:57:42
Bending over and saying 'Please shaft me' is not good enough. Moyes should have at least tried to point out that yet ANOTHER example of pathetic refereeing played a large part in setting the scene for what was a gentle meeting of heads instigated by Fellaini but in no way whatsoever was it a headbutt.
Christine Foster
147 Posted 16/12/2012 at 08:45:44
No good in this stall from any perspective.

1. Each of the minor offences were yellow cards, the attempted elbow, the hand in the face, both done with intent.

2. The head butt was more of a placing of the head into the face, but clear intent, a straight red. That's 3 weeks. So I reckon he will get at least 3 possibly 4 weeks if the FA do anything. Big if.

3. Moyes's condemnation of the player is justified as is the apology. but why not outline some of the justification for the frustration that caused it? Honesty is all well and good, but to say that Stoke and Shawcross didn't target Fellaini for exactly that reason is ridiculous. For Pulis to cry wolf is to show him up for the hypocrite he is as a manager.

Stoke kicked us off the park last season and this game showed the same tactics. So all very well for goody two-shoes Moyes to condemn his own player but he actually gave credit to Stoke "they are a good team" — they are not. They deserve no credit for the way they fouled at every turn. Their mission was to stop Everton playing football by any means, fair and foul.

Lastly, just when will the FA stop the fouling in the box? The holding, the theatrics, the cheats? Where is the protection?

Ciarán McGlone
148 Posted 16/12/2012 at 09:42:40
There's far too much defence of the indefensible on here for this thread to make much sense.

It's fine criticising Fellaini's actions, but whenever you caveat that with a 'but'... You justify his behaviour.

It's also rather ironic that people are deriding Shawcross for his tactics, whenever there was widespread criticism of the penalty awarded against Fellaini for the exact same thing.

6 game ban, and sent to bed with no dinner.

Brian Waring
149 Posted 16/12/2012 at 09:55:32
Fellaini was a thug in that game and luckily for him the FA are only going to do him for the headbutt, not the elbow or punch.

I find it sad that we have some on here saying because Fellaini was being pushed, pulled etc, that can be used as some sort of defence. Pushing, pulling, holding goes on in every game between attacking players and defenders and until the officials get a grip of it, players are going to keep on doing it.

Finally, it's not as if this is out of character from Fellaini, when he first came he was somewhat partial to using his elbows.

Anthony Jaras
150 Posted 16/12/2012 at 10:10:10
Well said Ciaren,

Most sensible post of the thread.

Unbelievable blue blinkers on show so far, so I'm glad someone else can be unbiased too.

It was a triple show of disgraceful, petulant, unprofessional and sly thuggery at best.

Anthony Jaras
151 Posted 16/12/2012 at 10:12:45
Ditto for Brian.
Ian Bennett
152 Posted 16/12/2012 at 10:20:26
Very interesting stance that Moyes took with Fellaini. Compare and contrast the circus of Mancini and Ballotelli.
Carl Peters
153 Posted 16/12/2012 at 11:14:24
Someone needs to give Fellaini lessons of how not to get caught on camera when retaliating whilst being fouled, ie, grab your opponent's bollocks — shouldn't have been to hard to do considering Shawcross was practically shagging him everytime we got in their box!

Away from the ref and cameras, stamp your opponent's foot really hard, but FFS, Felli, you don't butt him in front of 30,000 people!

BTW did anyone else notice that twat Lawrenson wanting a 6- to 9-game ban?!?! I fucking hate that cunt.
Paul Dark
154 Posted 16/12/2012 at 11:26:27
I think Fellaini is more innocent than he is being portrayed. It is possible for club and fans to stand behind him without condoning his petulance. Shawcross is a professional provoker and Stoke are professionals at provoking opponents and then crying foul. Did anyone see how the floored Shawcross suddenly got up without any hint of pain or concussion by one of his team-mates? Football has become a theatre. I actually feel sorry for Fellaini while disagreeing with what he did.

From my own experience of playing, it's very hard and unnatural to keep one's cool if one is constantly provoked without the (lawful and correct) protection of the rules/referees. They are there for that reason. Had the referee (correctly) blown for a blatant penalty before the incident, justice would've been done.

I feel sorry or the Stoke fans. It's an ugly club with an ugly manager and ugly players. Like Man Utd, they want to win before they want to be a football club - and that defeats the object of the whole thing. Thank God that our club has values beyond winning at any cost (which is why we've always been, and always will be, a greater 'club' than Man Utd or Liverpool).

I think Fellaini should be fined two weeks salary, should be given a three-match ban - but the sentimental-hysterical journalism (a VERY British thing) will make sure the 'thug' is rightly crucified for his actions on the poor, innocent Ryan Shawcross and (to listen to the embarrassing, sanctimonious Pulis) poor poor Stoke.

I do wish someone with a public voice would come out and say that (teams like) Stoke provoke deliberately and that they should be penalized constantly by referees and should be the subject of an FA investigation. But, of course, to do such a thing, the FA would need to look at itself and its own refereeing standards - which really need to move with the times.

Then there might be some sanity (and fairness) in football ... and on this board.

Ciarán McGlone
155 Posted 16/12/2012 at 11:45:08
So now Shawcross is also being hammered for not making a meal of the incident.

Let's get one thing straight. We are as guilty of harrassing opposing players on set pieces in our area. Heitinga is one of the worst offenders in the league.

Paul Dark, you just displayed everything that is wrong with the majority of posts in this thread.

Investigation into Stoke? Gimme a break.

Paul Dark
156 Posted 16/12/2012 at 11:53:41
Ciaran: you should listen to what other managers say about Stoke: 'wrestling', 'play (to the rules of) rugby rather than football' etc. Ask yourself: why is such a hopeless team unbeaten at home for so long?

Forgive me saying: I think your post displays everything that is wrong with the sentimentality (hammering Shawcross for not making a meal of it??) and sanctimoniousness (we are as bad as Stoke) of the Press reaction. I think people need to look a bit deeper than the head-butt.

I agree that every club is guilty of holding in the box, but it should be stamped out. Stoke are in a different league, though.

The referee's repeated failure to protect Fellaini (his duty, by the way) led to these problems.

Behave yourself, mate.

Ciarán McGlone
157 Posted 16/12/2012 at 12:07:06
I prefer to make my own judgements Paul.

But if you're interested in what managers say, then David Moyes said yesterday that they are a good tean. I happen to agree, despite the lazy analysis that pervades.

Patrick Murphy
158 Posted 16/12/2012 at 12:15:28
Ciaran, if you think Stoke are a good team then there is no hope for football, get yourself a season ticket at the Britannia next year and see how wonderful it is to watch that type of football week-in, week-out.
Tony Dove
159 Posted 16/12/2012 at 12:34:32
Every cloud has a silver lining. It's time for Ross...
Jamie Barlow
160 Posted 16/12/2012 at 12:29:34
Paul Ferry, would you mind taking your time and explaining your post @ 315.

You sound like some drunken nobhead with your stupid rants. Fool.

I've said Fellaini deserves a ban for what he did. I haven't defended him once.

How is what Moyes said post match (who you said behaved with decency and dignity) any different than what I've said?

It's also a bit rich of you to tell someone they could do with a bit of decency and dignity.

Cock.

Brian Waring
161 Posted 16/12/2012 at 12:49:52
I don't understand how Stoke can be branded 'thugs' because they grab, pull etc, Suarez is branded a thug, shithouse etc,but Fellaini who carried out 3 assaults, all in the one game, can't be branded a thug???

Also, I was thinking back to some of the other times when Fellaini has been a nob and lashed out, it's funny, because on them ocassions it wasn't Fellaini's fault, it was the players who he lashed out at.

I think this is a typical case off, everyone else are thugs, dirty bastards, cheats etc when it's commited against us, but when it's one of our own, well, that's okay.

Phil Sammon
162 Posted 16/12/2012 at 13:35:16
Some real sanctimonious posts on here today. It is possible to chastise Fellaini whilst also pointing out the trigger for his stupid actions.

Yes, there is holding and shirt pulling in every penalty area every game, but Shawcross yesterday was on another level. Both arms around Fellaini's waist EVERY TIME and nothing ever given. The referee could see it and chose not to act. Isn't Fellaini inclined to feel some sort of injustice considering he conceded a penalty recently with much less contact?

Every Evertonian has rightly condemned Fellaini's actions... we should also acknowledge the circumstances surrounding it.

Steven Astley
163 Posted 16/12/2012 at 13:56:08
You lads got nothing better to do on a Saturday night than harp on about how they should throw the book at one of our players?
Mike Rourke
164 Posted 16/12/2012 at 13:59:17
I'm absolutely disgusted with his actions, he fucked up so badly, totally and utterly unacceptable. He let his team mates down and let the club down. He has also made our task much more difficult over the Christmas/New Year period...what I want to know is exactly what the fuck was Tim Howard doing?
Paul Kelly
165 Posted 16/12/2012 at 13:56:18
Brian.

Fellaini did act in a thuggish manner. Fair to say. Problem I have and a few others on here is he'll get highlighted for his behaviour, (by his own manager no less) whereas the persistent thugs, ie, Ratboy and lets say Shawcross don't even get a mention. Not one raised eyebrow. Not one uttered sentence in their direction. Its disgraceful.

Moyes should of turned the attention on them, persistent fouling, blatant penalty we should of had. Not come out and public castrate one of his own while saying nothing about the former( fuck me he didn't even do it against the RS when ratboy put Mirallas out and then tried to end Distin's career).

All said and done, Fellaini has done well taking the heat off Pienaar and Howard who are the real villains.

Brian Waring
166 Posted 16/12/2012 at 14:28:22
I would have a tad bit of sympathy for Fellaini if this was out of character, but it wasn't, he has a history of nob head things like this. Also, I remember someone who used to play for us who used to pull, push, grab and get in the faces of the opposition, but he was that good at it he got away with it, a certain Tim Cahill.
Steve Brown
167 Posted 16/12/2012 at 14:52:23
Some players have an edge about them, it's what makes them effective and often drives their teams to results. Fellaini has that, as did Andy Gray. Occasionally that spills over into a flash of temper but that modifies with time and experience. Fellaini has definitely matured over the years in that regard.

Where I was really disappointed with him on Saturday was not the act of stupidity; it was the fact that he could not get into the game and instead of doing something about it decided to spend the entire match sulking and feeling sorry for himself. He never got beyond a trot the entire game, the play passed him by and he was ineffectual in winning headers or holding up the ball.

Of course Shawcross, Huth and the rest roughed him up a bit – what a surprise they do it every week – but a truly great player would find a way to get the better of them and influence the game. It showed me that Fellaini is a very good player but a long way off being a great player in terms of ability and attitude.

Ray Roche
168 Posted 16/12/2012 at 15:24:38
Ciarán McGlone @342

"6 game ban, with no dinner" Really? Had the referee seen the incident and shown the deserved red card then Fellaini would have faced a 3 match ban for violent play.

Shawcross was long overdue a yellow card for repeated fouling. Maybe if that yellow had been issued we'd not be talking about the headbutt.

As for Shawcross not making a meal of it, he went down like the Belgrano but was quickly to his feet without so much as a smear of his makeup once it was clear no action would be forthcoming. Seriously, if a nancy boy headbutt like that puts you on your arse he'd not have lasted long having a bevvie in the Triton.

Fellaini has acted like a prick, but let's not imagine that this was NOT a Stoke ploy to get our (usually) most influential player sent off.

Mike Gwyer
169 Posted 16/12/2012 at 16:00:51
Live with it.

Personally, I loved it and smiled when I watched it on MotD this morning. Fellaini was looking for the opportunity to let that twat have it – fucking good. That fuckwit Shawcross had been marking him with his arms the whole match so he had it coming. Moyes is doing what Moyes does best – making Everton look good and trying to to take the sting out of the situation in so much as Everton will deal with this.

Don't fancy listening to any reprimands so leave it out – we all have our opinions and personally I would have battered Shawcross a lot earlier. However, I will be at the Stoke game when they come to our place and I can assure you Shawcross will know he's at GP.

Jim Knightley
170 Posted 16/12/2012 at 15:55:16
Ciaran... I think you are right in highlighting the thuggery of Fellaini...but Stoke a good team? surely that kind of contradicts the moral basis of much of your original argument? They consistently bully opponents, kick, push, elbow, pull, and everything else. Fellaini has a temper problem, and it erupts sometimes...but do you think it was a coincidence that it happened against Stoke? they purposely set out to rile their opponents, and have a series of dirty players, who have been responsible for a series of disgraceful fouls over the course of the last few seasons, and use disreputable tactics to gain an advantage in every match they play.

I also like the idea that you suggest describing Stoke as a bad team, is lazy. What exactly is good about them? they close down alot, kick it long, or play it wide, and then cross it in...they play like a football league club. In fact, I watched a second round FA cup replay in the week, and the football on show was simply a less evolved version of Stoke tactics. But that wouldn't even matter that much, if they were not so fucking Dirty.

Fellaini should not have let it get to him...by doing so, he let himself, and the club down, and used the type of violence that should not be seen on a football pitch. But more than a 3 game ban...really? Players get banned for three matches for challenges which could end careers....Terry got a four game ban after being convicted for racist abuse... but Ciaran and others with similar sentiments...you think Fellaini should get a six game plus ban? A 3 game ban comes for violent conduct..and this was violent conduct. He should be banned tomorrow, we should accept it, but I don't see the grounds for him being given a 6/7/8/9 ban which has been suggested on here, and in some elements of the press. The headbutt was clear...the others were less so...last time I checked, the FA didn't use some strange totting up procedure for dishing out bans...If he gets anymore than 3 games, it will simply highlight (yet again), the inconsistent nature of FA punishments in view of the John Terry racism incident and a series of other terrible challenges which have only been punished with a 3 game suspension.

John Keating
171 Posted 16/12/2012 at 16:33:00
Good job Gabriel and Morrissey aren't still playing cos they'd be off every game they played.

Fellaini is a prick, no question, not because he tried to put the nut on Shawcross, but because he tried to do it with 700 cameras filming it! He should have waited until the match had finished and visited the Stoke dressing room.
Ciarán McGlone
172 Posted 16/12/2012 at 16:35:27
The analysis of Stoke as a bullying team who simply play long ball is lazy because it's simply not true.

They have tried to evolve their game over the last couple of seasons and have improved immensely in my opinion. The Stoke 'tag' has stuck and allows people to judge them without watching them.

People also have short memories if they can't remember how we played not to long ago!

Ray Roche
173 Posted 16/12/2012 at 16:45:29
Ciarán, I can well remember the way we played, if it's the Dogs Of War side that you refer to, but we were never a physically big enough side to bully teams in the way Stoke do. That subriquet was coined becuase of the way that we harried and chased every ball, not hoofed ball (and player) as far as we could.The Stoke tag is current, not past tense, they still bully sides in the same manner in which they have since Pulis arrived. To suggest otherwise is simply not true...
Paul Dark
174 Posted 16/12/2012 at 16:47:31
You're having a laugh, Ciaran. Or you're a Stoke supporter.

The way Stoke go about their business is abominable (in almost every way) and any comparison to Everton quite ludicrous.

Have a (serious) word with yourself, mate!

Ciarán McGlone
175 Posted 16/12/2012 at 16:53:51
Ray,

Try a little closer to the present and Tim Cahill's constant winding up and niggling of opponents, or Fellaini's 2 full seasons of elbowing everybody and anybody who came near him...

Paul Dark,

Well framed argument. Yes, I'm a Stoke supporter.

Jim Knightley
176 Posted 16/12/2012 at 16:43:35
Ciaran..your comment is a little self defeating... you describe the analysis of Stoke as a bullying team who simply play long ball as lazy...and then refer to them 'trying' to evolve their game. Firstly, what you are saying is simply not true. As I said in my last post, Stoke have, like many football league teams, two styles of play: Long ball, or play it out to wingers, who cross the ball into the area for headed goals. This is obvious from anyone who watches them play, their high proportion of headed goals each season, and the type of players they sign. Yesterday we saw some of their strikers...what do Jerome, Crouch, Walters and Jones suggest to your Ciaran? In fact, do they an established playmaker in their team?

But, with respect to long ball and bullying claims...every season in the league, Stoke have had the lowest overall possession stats... this season they may be bettered by Reading, but I will guarantee now that they will be in the bottom three. Doesn't suggest a passing game to you does it?

For Bullying, see the Fair play table: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/fairplay/_/league/eng.1/barclays-premier-league?cc=5739

Stoke consistently foul more than any team in this league....Pretty obvious, and hard to disprove.

Now when someone describes Stoke as one dimensional, or limited, they do not mean they simply play a past long everytime they get it...they mean they fundamentally favor an out-dated school of football based primarily on long balls, crosses and bully tactics. One or twice a season they score off a nice passing move....it doesn't when the 'old' Stoke tag is not applicable. They've got better at playing their game too...because they have significantly invested in players who are better than their original squad. But their tactics are essentially unchanged.

But please Ciaran...how exactly is the 'Stoke tag' not applicable? because your attempts to suggest otherwise are fundamentally lazy.

And the annoying thing is...Stoke have no excuse to do it now. In the last five seasons, they have the THIRD highest net spend in the league, and on average, have had a net spend of 18million more per season than us. They have the resources to play better football, and change, more so than we do...but they haven't.

Paul Dark
177 Posted 16/12/2012 at 17:01:13
Ciaran: it was a comment, not an 'argument'. Your earlier post also contained a spectacular non- sequitur. Think I'll leave you to it.

Stoke for fair play award and Fellaini for lifetime ban?

The sanctimoniousness and contrariness of some just baffles me.

Ciarán McGlone
178 Posted 16/12/2012 at 17:04:50
Do you not get sarcasm Paul?

Of course it was a comment, an inane one.

I'd be happy to address this apparent logical fallacy in my argument.. if you could just point it out..

Ciarán McGlone
179 Posted 16/12/2012 at 17:12:21
Jim,

I don't agree in the slightest with your conclusion that Stoke have two styles of play..Over the last couple of seasons i've seen them play some great football.. I'v also seen them play some effective and direct football..

To say they only do 1 of two things is in itself a one dimensional analysis.. i'd also have to question how much of them you've seen lately..

The lazy analysis of them precedes them in the footballing media with pundits such as Micky Quinn analysing them as 'long ball merchants' - while admitting to not actually watching them..

Of course they also play hard, Huth is a dirty bastard - but to single them out as being reliant on kicking teams off the pitch because of ythe likes of Huth doesn't tell the whole story.

It also seems a tad rich for us to criticise anybody whenever we have some unsavory people within our ranks - including the fella who all this commotion is about...But then again, objectivity never goes down well..does it!

Barry Rathbone
180 Posted 16/12/2012 at 17:13:26
Ciaran is right, "us" complaining about Stoke and the long ball is a joke.

The only difference till recently was they played with wingers something we did part time when Landon drooped in.

Oh! and we couldn't find a suitable Tom Jones song to wake us from our Goodison stupor.

Ray Roche
181 Posted 16/12/2012 at 17:26:19
Ciaran, Cahill's "winding up" is a far cry from Stoke's thuggish behaviour. I am well aware that Fellaini is a prick for his actions yesterday but to compare Everton, even the Everton of 2004 when Cahill joined us, to the Stoke of 2008 to the present day is frankly silly. You only have to watch the Prem and listen to most managers interviewed after a Stoke fixture to see that Stoke play the most uncompromising game of all.

The usual "The Britannia is a difficult place to come" or "Stoke are a difficult team to Play" to the pathetic "They play to their strengths" are all euphemisms for Stoke being an alehouse team. Long ball game is one thing, persistently fouling, particularly when a team is trying to catch them on the break, is another. Stoke are past masters at that game, witness the number of free kicks on the half way line that they are happy to concede, knowing that they are big enough to defend aerial assaults.

Ciaran, if you would be happy watching that crap every week then maybe you should consider changing clubs.
David Barks
182 Posted 16/12/2012 at 17:27:37
Comparing Tim Cahill going up for every ball (which he was very often penalized for) and Fellaini being singled out in the press for throwing elbows when a majority of the time he was not (the opposing player was just shorter than him so his elbow was at chin level instead of chest, which happens with every ball in the air) is just absurd. It's something that a fair few people on this site love to do, always taking the side against Everton.

A penalty is given against us for City and the Ciarans of the world say it was a penalty, while many of us point out that it happens on every play but we never have them given. Then we play Stoke and they do it on every set piece, but does Ciaran come on here and ask why we weren't being given those same penalty decisions that he agreed with being given against us? No he doesn't, he goes out of his way to compliment them, saying over the past two seasons they've played some great football. That statement right there should be laughed at by all who read it.

Adding a "but" after saying what Fellaini did was wrong is not justifying it. It's pointing out the events that led up to that event, something Distin has done today, and many other managers around the league have done in the past. If my son was to hit a child at school, but he tells me that was only in reaction to him being pushed around all day in the playground, and having his sweater stolen, me adding a "but" after saying my son should not have punched that kid would not be justifying his reaction. It would be explaining the whole situation, everything that had happened, and not allowing those others who are now playing the victim get away with all of their actions that led up to the final incident. It's called telling the whole story. If someone had stopped those kids from pushing around my child, a punch would not have been thrown. If the referees would have whistled for all the fouls Stoke committed on set pieces by grabbing our players and their "sly shove in the back by Huth" that the commentator praised, Fellaini would not have reached that level of frustration. Is that really so hard to comprehend?

David Barks
183 Posted 16/12/2012 at 17:46:07
Oh and pay no attention to the numerous tackles from behind that came in yesterday by Charlie Adam, Shawcross, Cameron, and Huth. A tackle from behind is a foul and supposed to be a yellow card, because it is a dangerous play even if the player gets the ball. These tackles came in on Baines numerous times yesterday, as well as against Osman and Pienaar, but were at times not even whistled and never carded.

The way the tackles come in make it impossible not to "scissor" the opposing players plant foot which can easily snap an ankle. But Stoke do this regularly and get away with it. But watch what happens if Coleman goes in on that type of challenge against RVP or Gerrard — I will guarantee it will be whistled and given a yellow for dangerous play. And the commentators will compliment the ref for the decision stating it was a dangerous play. But when Stoke do it to us, it's just "physical, hard tackling football".
Ciarán McGlone
184 Posted 16/12/2012 at 18:12:37
David Barks,

If someone assaults someone of the ball, unless its a case of self defence, then context is abso-fuckin-lutely irrelevant..

There are two separate issues here.

I don't need to comment on whether Shawcross' actions merit a penalty or not. My opinion is clear on the issue, in fact you've even repeated it. That should be crystal clear, even for you.

Paul McGinty
185 Posted 16/12/2012 at 18:03:15
Paul Ferry,now you"ve dropped the "fucking" and the "goat" references . I feel like we" re almost pen-pals . Live well and prosper sir.
David Barks
186 Posted 16/12/2012 at 18:31:08
Ciaran,

No, it is not irrelevant. In discussing why an action occurred you must analyze the entire situation. Fellaini's action occurred while he was again being bear hugged by Shawcross, being pulled back. It had happened all match and at that moment he snapped, wrongfully so. But to just ignore what led up to it is to allow them to get away with it. Distin has said as much today. But you don't come out and ask why Everton weren't granted penalties. You come out and simply slate Fellaini and refuse to discuss anything that led up to it or any of Stoke's tactics, in fact you defend them.

Brian Waring
187 Posted 16/12/2012 at 18:37:44
So David, we need to analyze the entire situation, when he smacked the lad in the mouth, we need to accept he was being tugged? When he threw the elbow, we need to accept he was being tugged? When he threw the headbutt we need to accept he was being held? So the conclusion is, Fellaini was being held, tugged, nothing that could have caused him serious injury, but we have to analyze and accept the circumstances that led to his three acts of violence that could have caused injury?

Ciarán McGlone
188 Posted 16/12/2012 at 18:48:48
I didn't slate Fellaini, I slated those people on this thread using the tenuous subtext of context to justify his actions.

Neither did I defend any of Shawcross' behaviour.

If youre going to try and attack my point, the very least you could do is familiarise yourself with it.

James Martin
189 Posted 16/12/2012 at 18:46:05
Such an overreaction to Osman's miss. I guess our world class players would never miss one like that - oh wait Fellaini did exactly the same against West Brom. On that note what did Fellaini offer yesterday? Absolutely nothing, dominated in the air at both ends and did nothing more than resort to ridiculous thuggery. Once again our lack of pace uptop with Mirallas missing was evident throughout the entire game. Our only threat could come from the flanks because in the middle we didn't have enough to get through them. Sell Fellaini and get in a real number 10 with pace who doesn't butt people.
Colin Wainwright
190 Posted 16/12/2012 at 18:58:24
Fellaini is probably the best player in a blue shirt for nigh on thirty years, and some people want him sold. He's probably responsible for winning 10-12 points this season, by himself and some people want him sold. He loses the rag against a shithouse pub team and he's a "fuckin' Belgian liability".

Get a fuckin' grip!

Brian Waring
191 Posted 16/12/2012 at 19:00:54
Got to agree with you there James in regards to Osman, you would think he missed it on purpose with the reaction on here.
Brent Stephens
192 Posted 16/12/2012 at 19:04:40
David Barks. I think we need to distinguish between whether someone is offering an opinion as to whether fellis actions were acceptable in footballing terms, or trying to explain the actions.

To explain them, yes, we need to refer to Shawshite's actions.

But to say whether or not felli's actions are acceptable, you don't need to refer to anything Shawshite did (EXCEPT in mitigation) - all you need to do is say whether felli acted within the laws of the game and whether he then deserves the punishment he gets - he didn't and he does (even with mitigation he deserves the ban he'll get). I think that's what Ciaran and many others is saying. And he deserves it from the point of view of having fucked things up for our team for the next few games.

I think that's easy to understand.

Jim Knightley
193 Posted 16/12/2012 at 18:58:13
Ciaran... why can't we criticize Stoke because we have Fellaini playing for us? The large majority of us have criticized Fellaini...so that seems an extremely peculiar finishing fragment. This entire argument exist because of objectivity...if it didn't, we'd all be donning support Fellaini t-shirts.

Regarding your childish suggestion that I haven't seen alot of Stoke...first, fantastic arguing style..try to prioritize the primacy of your argument by denouncing another because of an assumption they have had less first hand evidence... first, you are wrong. Because of my working life, I watch an awful lot of football, including, a second round FA Cup replay, one Spanish league game, one Bundlesliga, three Premiership matches and a Serie A match over the last week. I would say, with some certainty, that I have watched Stoke at least as much as you have, and most probaly more.

Now, your silly comments aside...let's move on. Firstly, Stoke's thuggery is not confined to Huth. As I illustrated in my last post, they are bottom of the fair play league. Your use of Huth is a strange one...considering some of the challenges Shawcross has made over the past few seasons and his general level of play....not to mention Charlie Adam, who is a notoriously dirty player, and Dean Whitehead, who is the most booked player in the league this season. To try and to suggest they are not dirty is simply not true...the facts illustrate that they are...and even without facts, the large majority of football fans would describe Stoke as the dirtiest team in the league. There is no smoke without fire in their case. Or do you think that Stoke lead the league in yellow cards/red cards because they are not..dirty?

Now your suggestions of Stoke playing well...spring from you having seen them play some nice football on occasions? well done, they can't be a a limited side then...... I mean seriously, you do realize that calling Stoke a long-ball team, or one-dimensional, does not suggest that they never have phases of play which contradict that? I mean surely that is not your argument? But anyway.. Stoke are a fundamentally ugly football team, who has I have stated before, play it long, or to the wings, the large majority of the time. They very very rarely play it along the ground through the middle. Now, in support of this, I give you possession statistics, which you have conveniently chosen to ignore because they defeat your argument. Stoke consistently have less possession in Premier league matches, at around 40% in matches. They have less possession, because of a fundamentally direct style. This is an easy conclusion to make.

You are trying to defend an indefensible argument here. You state that Stoke are 1) not dirty 2) and play good football – And they have the most cards in the league, and consistently lower possession in almost every match they play.

Andy Crooks
194 Posted 16/12/2012 at 19:32:26
There's been some pious nonsense on this thread but, quite frankly, if Stoke were to kick the living fucking daylights out of Suarez and Co I'd defend them.
Patrick Murphy
195 Posted 16/12/2012 at 19:38:23
What's the betting that the first holding offence against the Dark Side at the Britannia on Boxing Day results in a Penalty!
Ciarán McGlone
196 Posted 16/12/2012 at 19:38:11
Jim,

You do realise that all that sophistry is just your opinion, don't you?

Andy Meighan
197 Posted 16/12/2012 at 19:35:21
Whether he was provoked or not, he should be professional enough not to rise to the bait of these yard dogs. The sad fact is he hasn't got the brains he was born with... he's got previous for this sort of thing, let's not forget that.

And it wasn't just the butt it was a slap and fuck knows what else he got up to. While we can all castigate the likes of Lawrenson and Co,
he was right what he said. Fellaini is a liability and this has been coming, even his own manager said as much. At least there's someone in the dressing room with some sense.

I personally hope they throw the book at him. He's the most overrated player ever to grace Goodison Park. He's strolled round like Bertie Big Bollocks the last couple of games, looking like he doesn't give a fuck. Which he evidently doesn't. Half a good season and he thinks he's Zidane. Turn the lights out on your way out, dickhead
Brian Waring
198 Posted 16/12/2012 at 20:00:19
Patrick, sticks in my throat pointing this out, but the shite seem to be getting fucked over just as much as us when it comes to decisions/pens. They should have had a bang on pen yesterday, funny enough, it was for holding on Agger.
Jim Knightley
199 Posted 16/12/2012 at 20:10:51
Ciaran...I love that comment, considering your comment:
The analysis of Stoke as a bullying team who simply play long ball is lazy because it's simply not true. They have tried to evolve their game over the last couple of seasons and have improved immensely in my opinion. The Stoke 'tag' has stuck and allows people to judge them without watching them.
I thought you were one of the most intelligent posters on here, until I saw the nature of your argument in this thread.

My reason is sound...t hat is why you are refusing to meet it head on. You say in your opinion Stoke play good football and are not dirty... which I've heard very very few football people claim. However, in response I illustrate that Stoke have less possession than any more Premier League team, and receive more cards. Please explain to me how their lack of possession is not related to a fundamentally direct style? and how their position at the top of the card table illustrates that they are not a dirty side? Instead of hiding behind a very undergraduate style of avoidance.

Also, Liverpool have had a few pens not given this season... primarily because of the reputation of Suarez. Maybe Suarez's reputation is so bad, referees have just decided to stop giving them to anyone in Liverpool.

Also, Mourinho looks like he will be available in the summer after tonight's result. Apparently a caller on 606 stated yesterday that Liverpool will get him. :D

Phil Sammon
200 Posted 16/12/2012 at 20:23:46
There is nothing wrong with direct football per se. We play some long balls from time to time. The thing is that it's Stoke's only gameplan.

The first thing Pulis looks at when he buys a player is his aerial ability. And it's not like they don't spend money. They have the resources to buy decent footballers but instead choose to stick with this long ball game.

There is no 'good' or 'bad' football, it's purely opinion. All I know is that I couldn't watch that guff every week.

Ciarán McGlone
201 Posted 16/12/2012 at 20:26:02
Your reason is not sound in the slightest.

You've thrown out a tenuous stat based on possession and another based on cards - then you've pronounced a conclusion that on this basis Stoke are a dirty long ball team.

There's no refinement in the argument, other than a hop, skip and a jump from these dubious facts to your conclusion.

We have 3 less yellow cards than Stoke, and had Fellaini been rightly been sent off.. not only would he have overtaken Whiteheads total, we'd have been down around were Stoke are in the fairplay league. By your flawless logic we're dirty bastards too.

So while I actually didn't actually say we couldn't criticise Stoke because of Fellaini, it's obvious to me that given our dubious temperament its rather churlish to do so.

As for your suggestion that I'm 'defending the indefensible'.. another bullshit slight of hand.

Phil Sammon
202 Posted 16/12/2012 at 21:13:45
Ciaran

What team(s) in the Premier League play worse football than Stoke, in your opinion.

Brent Stephens
203 Posted 16/12/2012 at 21:18:18
Phil Sammon - is the answer Liverpool?!
Roman Sidey
204 Posted 16/12/2012 at 19:11:22
I know I normally give Osman a hard time on here, but that miss was abysmal, and probably the worst miss I've seen from an Everton player since I started supporting the club. Not saying it was a definite goal, as there was a 'keeper and two defenders on the line, but to not even hit the target from that distance is shocking.
Jim Knightley
205 Posted 16/12/2012 at 21:05:18
Ciaran...Fellaini wasn't sent off...we are not dealing with hypothetical cards....if we were we could easily add some to Stoke's tally, and especially Wilkinson's, who has got away with several obvious fouls/assaults this season.

And how exactly are yellow cards and red cards not a barometer of how dirty a team is? please explain to me what is a more useful tool for analysis? Your subjective judgement, which strangely contravenes the dominant rhetoric concerning the way Stoke play football?

And possession statistics..are they not an indicator of how direct a team is? interesting how yet again you avoid the questions I ask.

And your argument is purely based on seeing them play on a few occasions...btw, let me know if I am right...when you imply you've watched Stoke play more than anyone else, do you mean a few games a season when they are on Sky? I'm just trying to determine why you think you watch Stoke more than everyone else.

Have you ever considered the possibility you are wrong? Stoke consistently foul the most, get the most cards, have the least possession, score the most headers.... it doesn't take much to make a few conclusions...the only hop, skip and jumping go on here, is your strange conclusion that Stoke play good football. But eh? stats can be used to say anything eh? all the managers complaining are wrong? And I suppose all the people disagreeing with your absurd notions are wrong as well.

Henrik Lyngsie
206 Posted 16/12/2012 at 20:54:00
Phil Sammon. 474. Then I guess pulis got something wrong when he bought Michael Owen. In my book, he is not exactly known as strong in the air.

When I was a kid, my hero was Alan Hudson at Stoke City. Very technical guy. But that changed when I first watched Bob Latchford and fell in love with Everton. He would be well suited for the Stoke of today

Jim Knightley
207 Posted 16/12/2012 at 21:30:47
Did anyone see Barton's tweet when Owen signed? “Good luck at Stoke, Get practicing your heading lad….”

Phil Sammon
208 Posted 16/12/2012 at 21:30:10
No, he isn't Henrik. He's there purely for the knock downs and to keep the physio's eye in.
Henrik Lyngsie
209 Posted 16/12/2012 at 21:36:57
Phil and Jim. Agree it is a really strange signing that one
David Barks
210 Posted 16/12/2012 at 21:37:21
Henrik,

How many games has Owen played and how many goals has he scored at Stoke? Christ, this is a side that for years almost purely relied on long throws into the box to get goals.

By the way, very much enjoying watching this Barcelona v Atletico match. All the defending has been done on their feet, no diving in at the ankles. Some cracking goals with amazing lead up play, made possible by the fact that they don't stand for rough house defending. It is possible to defend without tackling from behind and holding onto your player for dear life. And just then an aerial challenge comes in with an elbow raised by the Barcelona player and it's immediately met with a yellow card. Falcao would be a fool to move to England.

Ian Bennett
211 Posted 16/12/2012 at 21:40:40
Just remember lads, those who celebrated Hibbert's goal have had more minutes on the pitch than Michael Owen.
Jim Knightley
212 Posted 16/12/2012 at 21:49:17
I've also been enjoying the Barca game, although I've had to turn off now to work. The football is fantastic to watch..and I thought Athletico did very well in the first half. Although unfortunately, I think the title is over now, and I'm pretty certain the top four will stay as it is, but with Real over-taking Atletico.

I hope Falcao doesn't move to Chelsea or City... apparently Chelski are tying up a deal for Lyon's Gomis (There surely cannot be any better models of Drogba's style in world football?), so hopefully that will prevent them buying Falcao, as if they did, there would be no chance of them slipping from third. Also, it may open up the possibility of a loan move for Sturridge?
Ciarán McGlone
213 Posted 16/12/2012 at 22:06:31
Again you appear to be accusing me of avoiding your 'questions'.. I thought I made it quite clear in my last post that I thought your conclusions were flawed - let alone based on dubious 'facts'.. If you didn't realise that then take this post as clarification of that.

The point I was making, is that we are not far behind Stoke on the card and foul count, so by your logic that's enough to label us 'dirty'. That's why your conclusion is flawed, and that's why stats are not definitive on this issue.

ps: I never implied I'd watched Stoke more than everybody else.. another straw argument. But as you've asked, I don't rely on Sky for my football and I get all 360 games.

Phil Sammon
214 Posted 16/12/2012 at 22:18:07
'Dubious facts' - That's an oxymoron if ever I've heard one.

Ciarán, you're talking nonsense.

Ciarán McGlone
215 Posted 16/12/2012 at 22:31:01
When somethings presented as a fact, it doesn't mean its true... E.g Mr Knightleys assertion that Stoke have 40% possession in most of their games..

Do you not understand that Phil? Is it nonsense?

I don't think so.

Patrick Murphy
216 Posted 16/12/2012 at 22:34:12
Be warned this link is on a Dark Side webpage I got the link from GOT, it makes very interesting reading, there is not truth that DM's agent provided the article.

http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2012/12...eader.html?m=1

Phil Sammon
217 Posted 16/12/2012 at 22:38:29
Fact: Something that is known or proved to be true.

Dubious: Not to be relied on. Suspect.

Oxymoron: A figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms are used in conjunction.

Nonsense: Spoken or written words which make no sense

• 'Ciaran was talking nonsense'

Gavin Ramejkis
218 Posted 16/12/2012 at 22:44:53
Patrick, it has been deleted, spill the beans
Jim Knightley
219 Posted 16/12/2012 at 22:42:36
I see Ciaran... instead of disputing the relevance of the facts, now it is the authenticity... you worm about don't you? Well... Stoke had 40% of possession as an average last season:

Arsenal finished with the highest average possession in the division last season, 60%, while Stoke's was the lowest at 40%. - http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/aug/24/stoke-city-arsenal-tactics

This season, Stoke had an average of 37% in October: http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/features/121013/premier-leagues-possession-table-find-out-where-your-club-ranks-182989

But in fairness to them, aside from Liverpool arguably, they had the toughest start in the league. Since them, possession has averaged around the 40% mark (Check out the match stats...)

So Ciaran...I'd say what I said was pretty factual. Btw, check out the figures for their pass completion... they are as embarrassing as their possession stats. What other stats are dubious btw...the yellow and red card?

And Ciaran if you suggest that other posters have not seen Stoke much lately, and then refer to the primacy of your opinion based on first hand evidence, then I think there is a heavy implication that you have watched Stoke more than the poster you are denouncing? Pretty obvious relationship if you ask me.

What I really find amazing, is that Stoke still play great football, which is not fundamentally direct, with a lower passing accuracy and lower possession than the other teams in the division...and they are not dirty, but receive more cards than anyone else in the division. How exactly do they manage that Ciaran? I'm confused...anyone else know?

I make a prediction: Ciaran won't answer the question, because he can't, and knows he cant.

Andrew Keatley
220 Posted 16/12/2012 at 22:47:16
The reaction of the Match of the Day pundits really disappointed me; it seemed to me like they were trying to fan the flames of shock and outrage in the hope that it might lead to an inflated ban for Fellaini. They made a real point of showing all of the individual incidents multiple times - and in slow-motion - and making noises of disgust throughout.

Now I accept that Fellaini transgressed - and if the referee had seen the head-butt then he would have received (and deserved) a straight red. But the reaction of Shearer really bothered me; his career was filled with unsavoury moments in which he failed to cover himself on glory. After he managed to stamp all over Neil Lennon (in 1998) without the referee seeing it, he basically (it is alleged) responded to the threat of a ban by threatening the FA with a refusal to play for England. In a World Cup year. So his hypocrisy - and his refusal to accept his own transgressions - mark him out as the sort of person who shouldn't really be sitting down and broadcasting his supposedly balanced views to the public.

Ciarán McGlone
221 Posted 16/12/2012 at 23:14:28
I quite clearly said that I thought you hadn't seen much of Stoke recently, which is quite different from your previous assertion that I claimed to have seen more of Stoke than everybody else...

I didn't claim anything of the sort, you made it up..

I also didn't say that Stoke played 'great football' - yet another fabrication on your part..

I said they played good football as well as direct football and that they had impoved in the last couple of seasons..

Ive answered your question, the fact that youve choose to ignore the comparisons with our disciplianry record is somewhat telling.

Jim Knightley
222 Posted 16/12/2012 at 23:23:15
Yes, a certain moral high-ground has been taken by large parts of the media..it is commendable in one sense, because Fellaini's actions, and the thuggery they represent, should not be part of football...but in doing so, I think people forget that these things sometimes happen in football. I know I did things in my playing days which I would criticize the modern football for, but in the emotion of certain moments, we all have the capacity to act like idiots.

In respect to Fellaini, aggression is a part of his game. I know sometimes controlled aggression is necessary for certain footballers, but I think Fellaini has too often stepped over the line in the past. I'm also worried that now, when he returns from suspension, he will become a target for yellow and reds, because of the media fervor over the Stoke incident.

But he apologised, and Moyes criticised. It doesn't alter the nature of the incident, but it has been the best possible reaction. If he learns from it, it will be forgotten in a few months. We have also acted far better than other teams in this league when they have been involved in embarrassing/disgraceful incidents....not going to mention any names, but one particular incident involved a rat faced Uruguayan.

Ciarán McGlone
223 Posted 16/12/2012 at 23:25:14
Oh and by the way...Swansea had less than 40% possession today - I guess they were playing the long ball game..

They're also well down the fair play league, must be dirty feckers too.

Ciarán McGlone
224 Posted 16/12/2012 at 23:28:49
Im also rather intrigued by the moral high-ground that's achieved by calling someone a 'rat'..
Colin Wainwright
225 Posted 16/12/2012 at 23:15:32
No-one's denying that there are contradictions in football and Andy @466 gets it spot on. Look, Fellaini fucked up. Big time. Three times! I can understand peoples frustration but the lad isn't a lunatic, certainly not on a par with Dunc. What official statistics don't tell you are the amount of times a player is fouled and doesn't get awarded a free kick, if they did Fellaini would have topped it for the past two seasons (my opinion).

He's a fuckin' great (young) player (imo again) and this rush to sell him/label him a liability, is bewildering. The lad doesn't receive any protection from referees, whether away at god forsaken holes like Stoke, or at Goodison. He reacted. He shouldn't have. I can get over it.

Jim Knightley
226 Posted 16/12/2012 at 23:26:00
My prediction came through Ciaran...you ignored it. My questions are clear...I'll repaste for you:

What I really find amazing, is that Stoke still play great football, which is not fundamentally direct, with a lower passing accuracy and lower possession than the other teams in the division...and they are not dirty, but receive more cards than anyone else in the division. How exactly do they manage that Ciaran? I'm confused...anyone else know?
I make a prediction: Ciaran won't answer the question, because he can't, and knows he cant.


I also did answer your question...I referred to the fact that you mentioned a red card which was not given. And your point does not hold up...we do not have a record like Stoke's....we are 13th in the fair play table, and they are 20th...what are you on about? I also personally believe we have on occasions played in a dirty manner, especially in the past but clearly this season have committed less card worthy fouls than Stoke. We also do not employ the tactics that Stoke do on a frequent basis and consequently do not have the reputation of Stoke among other footballing clubs and fans. And in your manner of trying to alter the fairplay table based on cards that were given...then the red we received for Pienaar should not count, as it was the result of a referee's error.

Also Ciaran...you didn't say Stoke played great football? that is a fabrication? well, who said this again:

I don't agree in the slightest with your conclusion that Stoke have two styles of play..Over the last couple of seasons i've seen them play some great football..

'some GREAT football'.

Serious Ciaran...how can you still continue with your claims? Stoke consistently have lower percentage stats in the league than their opponents, which averages at around the 40% mark...they have very low pass completion figures..and foul more than other teams. Stoke have a reputation as an ugly team for a reason...they have a bunch of tall players and score a high proportion of their goals from headers...this isn't myth making...there isn't an attempt to create anti-Stoke narrative. We don't need Said to write back. The figures are there...the testimonies are there....the comments of irritated managers and players are there, most recently from our own central defender.

I'll leave it on this note again from Barton concerning Owen's transfer.

“Good luck at Stoke, Get practicing your heading lad….

But then maybe Barton hasn't watched Stoke much lately either.

Mike Green
227 Posted 16/12/2012 at 23:31:51
Hendrik #484 - the signing of Owen was a PR exercise, nothing more. It was done to sell some shirts and try to paper over the fact that they are the dirtiest, most direct, cheating bunch of scumbags since the Wimbledon side of the '80's.

All they're doing is trying to buy some false legitimacy, while in the background doing what they're done ever since they came into the EPL which is muscle, foul and cheat teams off the park. They make Big SAMs sides look like Barcelona.

Jim Knightley
228 Posted 16/12/2012 at 23:41:20
Ciaran...I'm talking about averages as you well know. Getting irritated by the stupidity of your own argument? Swansea's average possession is high...why? because they generally play good football.

I was also referring to the moral high ground of the media...not my own. My fallibility in that respect is illustrated through my admittance that I had in the past done things on a football pitch which I would criticise the modern footballer for. Please read the post before trying a witty comeback, which is just emphasising your position as the Toffeeweb idiot this evening.

Ciarán McGlone
229 Posted 16/12/2012 at 23:42:57
Joey Barton?

Fuck, ill get me coat then.

David Moyes - YESTERDAY - "Stoke are a good team".

P.S do you not consider the inclusion of the word 'some' to be a rather important qualifier?

Anyway, don't answer. I think the forum has had enough of this argument.

Paul Smith
230 Posted 16/12/2012 at 23:41:22
Pulis being interviewed, and I quote: "It was the THIRD time this season officials have failed to send off opposition players for reckless fouls.We had David Luiz on Jon Walters, Ciaran Clark on Greg Whelan and now this."

Maybe, Tony, your players are so dirty that they bring out the animal in every player they try and stop with your underhand tactics. Or ,on the other hand (and this is a long shot) the refs can see how what they are doing and let it go.

In which case, as most people on here have posted, the officials need to get a grip of the snide tactics straight away, otherwise it becomes insidious and the whole game turns vile.

Jim Knightley
231 Posted 16/12/2012 at 23:49:38
I see Ciaran...still failed to answer the question. All these posts and you can't answer a couple of simple questions...pathetic.

Also..funny to see so many assaults on Stoke's football....are all these posters missing something as well?

And Moyes called Stoke a good team? ooo ok...they must not be a fundamentally direct football team, with the lowest possession stats in the league over the past few years, and the highest card count. I didn't know Moyes said that before I made this argument...shit, I wonder if others will have to retract what they've said about Stoke now too.

Patrick Murphy
232 Posted 17/12/2012 at 00:11:09
Gavin I just clicked on it and it was there in full, but you can't copy any of it.


http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2012/12/david-moyes-shows-brendan-rodgers-how-to-be-a-real-leader.html?m=1

Gavin Ramejkis
233 Posted 17/12/2012 at 00:37:03
Read it now Patrick, amused by a few still claiming Swearez is whiter than white but a growing number clamouring for the diving to stop, part of the reason David Brent's lot haven't had a penalty yet is down to his public statement that he would tell his players to dive, Villa tearing them a new hoop at least saved my weekend.
Roman Sidey
234 Posted 17/12/2012 at 06:13:35
Don't worry, Keatley, Shearer's a fuckwit. In all his years as a pundit he's been so quick to jump on Everton's back you'd think he was a Redshite.
Derek Thomas
235 Posted 17/12/2012 at 07:15:17
Stoke are dirty, Fellaini is dirty, Stoke are ( are not ) long ball merchants, Fellaini derserves everything he gets etc etc .

GET 'KIN REAL and stop dancing around the bleedin obvious.

Until the prem sort out the in the box argie bargie we will have the Carra Lescott carry on ( how long ago was that ) and we will have people getting their retaliation in first.

Banning Fellaini is just the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff senario

Steve Jones
236 Posted 17/12/2012 at 08:39:46
Ciaran, seems even Martin Samuel believes in the basic concepts of cause and effect which you refuse to acknowledge:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2249133/Martin-Samuel-Marouane-Fellaini-wrong-lets-grips-real-problem.html

It happens every time we play Stoke, persistent fouling by Shawcross and holding that is against the laws of the game went unpunished and Felliani snapped, it's called being human. Yes he was in the wrong but if the ref had got a grip and given a foul the first time (See City away last week pen against us for much less) then I'm pretty sure the headbutt wouldn't have happened.

Hoping you can read this from the lofty heights of your moral high ground up there, time to inject some realism into proceedings.

Sam Hoare
237 Posted 17/12/2012 at 08:46:39
Fellaini deserves whatever punishment he gets. Silly boy. Stoke could use a little examination as well, clearly bending the laws at every corner.

Also being a good team does not mean that the team plays 'good' as in attractive football.

Kevin Tully
238 Posted 17/12/2012 at 09:04:28
I thought it was refreshing to hear Moyes come out with the truth straight away, he knew the whole world would see the incident, so why make a twat of yourself?

As for every other poor decision that does or doesn't go our way - two wrongs do not make a right, so please stop pointing to every other foul or penalty appeal we don't win.

Fellaini butted the guy, no defence.

Ciarán McGlone
239 Posted 17/12/2012 at 09:12:44
"What I really find amazing, is that Stoke still play great football, which is not fundamentally direct, with a lower passing accuracy and lower possession than the other teams in the division...and they are not dirty, but receive more cards than anyone else in the division. How exactly do they manage that Ciaran? I'm confused...anyone else know?
I make a prediction: Ciaran won't answer the question, because he can't, and knows he cant."
-------------------------

I've answered the above several times now. Just because you can't recognise or accept the answer doesn't mean i've avoided it.

I'll have another go in the vague hope you'll grasp the train of my argument.

Firstly, I did not say they play 'great football'... I said that i've seen them play 'some great football' over the last couple of seasons. I've never said they're Arsenal. What i'm saying is that they've tried to changed their game and are not so dependant on direct football.

However you're happy to stand by teh rather vacuous point that they're route one and nothing else.

The stats you've provided in no prove that they haven't played some good football. The point which was put to you (which you roundly dismissed) was that yestersday Swansea had a very low possession, but played their normal game when they had the ball. That was an average over a game.

You have produced your question above on the premature basis that the stats youve provided have proven your point. They haven't.

The matter is one for debate. Perhaps you would be better served by recognising this fact.

Secondly, on the 'dirty' tag. I think you'll find i've accepted from the start that they have a few players who are programmed in a certain way. However, to tag the whole team 'dirty' on this basis is in my opinion misleading. More importantly, I also find it rather churlish to label a whole team dirty solely on the basis of a collective disciplinary record. This is especially pertinent considering that we are essentially a single red card away from them in the fair play league.

Brian Waring
240 Posted 17/12/2012 at 10:40:04
David Moyes on Stoke: "They are very strong, very powerful and they are a good team. They need more credit"

It's funny how a lot of managers give Stoke credit, even Ferguson and Wenger have both given Stoke the plaudits, Wenger even stated that Stoke now play more on the ground...
Brian Waring
241 Posted 17/12/2012 at 11:04:26
Steve (#542):

The problem is though, Steve, it wasn't just the once Fellaini snapped, it was 3 times. You could say fair enough, he's human, he lost it because he had had enough, but to also smack someone in the mouth and then use the elbow is just being a total nob. Also, this isn't the first time Fellaini has done something like this, he has a bit of history.

Luckily for him and us, it looks like the FA are only going to charge him for the headbutt.

Paul Dark
242 Posted 17/12/2012 at 11:57:03
542: Steve, thanks for the link. Nice to see a journalist talk what is obviously common sense.

By the way: Fellaini is an enormous asset to our club. I hope he stays for a very long time to come.

Steve Jones
243 Posted 17/12/2012 at 12:00:00
Brian, I agree with you there are 2 issues here.

The first is the Fellaini has an issue with his temper, there is no doubt about that and he needs to sort that out.

The second which was the point I was making was that if the referee followed the letter of the law then Shawcross wouldn't have been able to spend 90 minutes bear hugging Fellaini as he wouldn't have been on the pitch. As Martin Samuels link says:

"the first foul that was committed in the Stoke City penalty area in the 59th minute on Saturday was by defender Ryan Shawcross."

If that had been punished appropriately I do not believe the events that followed it would have occured.

I suppose I'm a bitter blue but it wrankles me the lack of consitency of both

1) Decisions, i.e. why did City get a penalty against us for a tug but Stoke didn't get any punishment for fully holding our players in the box?

2) Media coverage - Both duirng after the derby no one mentioned the 2 obvious malicious challenges of Suarez's on Mirralles and Distin, (MOTD and Sky apparently missed them both). When Miralles went off at half time Sky said he'd pulled up awkwardly! Contrast that to the media frenzy over Felliani, yes 3 incidents he lost his temper because he was man handled all game, yes totally in the wrong and deserves punishing but not calculated cynical attempts to put other players out of the game. MOTD 2 even had the headbutt as the opening intro to the highlights of the goals last night, which was good in one way as it showed the limited cotact it took for the strapping Shawcross to drop like a sack of spuds before his team mate eventually pulled him up and he jogged on then as if nothing had happened.

Paul Dark
244 Posted 17/12/2012 at 12:23:27
578: Again, right, Steve - and I wish Moyes would acknowledge this: Shawcross acted (repeatedly) and Fellaini REacted. It doesn't let our man off, but it does make a difference.

I think Moyes has rather hung Fellaini out to dry - which is poor man-management of the Barclays Player of the Month) and not terribly 'cute' (in more general terns) either, in my view. He should've kept somewhat schtum straight after the game and then given a more considered response on Sunday or today.
Steve Jones
245 Posted 17/12/2012 at 12:24:11
Paul #573 No problem, thought it banced things out a bit.

Ditto on Felliani, he's been outstanding this season and will do just as well if not better if dropped back into central midfiled so is priceless to us.

I do have some sympathy with him losing his temper too from my own experiences however far removed they are from the premier league. As a scrawny 16 year old I played sunday league football for a pub team (I was a glass collector there), I played on the right wing so most of the time would either put the ball through the left backs legs or push it past him and try and do him on pace. As you can imagine if the defender did mange to get me, bearing in mind most of them were a lot bigger and older than me, then they'd give me one hell of kick, stamp, push, elbow whatever they could get away with. One game I just snapped, I'd been getting kicked all over the park, had a bloodied nose from an elbow and not even a free kick all game. Another whack to my knee and that was it, I got up and swung for the full back who probably barely felt the punch I landed on him but obviously the whole team got stuck in then! The point being the full back should have been long off the pitch before that happened, I got sent off (Rightly so) but he just carried on as he was. Not really fair, casue and effect, I'd retaliated not instigated it but I was the only one punished.

Steve Jones
246 Posted 17/12/2012 at 12:40:50
Paul #580, Yes agree Moyes is always honest, too much so compared to just about every other manager...

Perhaps a more balanced response highlighting Shawcross's own antics but still condemning Fellaini's response, which as you say is what it was, would have triggered both the FA and the media to look at the bigger picture.
Jim Knightley
247 Posted 17/12/2012 at 12:15:30
Ciaran...you understand that labeling a team as dirty, does not mean that every individual player in that team is dirty right? Why do you assume every comment is absolute? you understand that no absolute's are possible right? that if we describe Messi as genius, he may not be genius in every match? that because Suarez is a diver, he may not be a diver in every match? why do you look at things in such a simplistic way?

Now firstly, it is clear from my comments that I do not think Stoke are ONLY route one, but 'fundamentally' play a simplified version of football which primary involves playing it directly into the forwards, or crossing it from the wings.. There you go again going for absolutes. Now this is supported by 'average' possession stats, and pass completion stats. These are facts. Now please....try to understand this, because it is getting frustrating..... you refer to: 'That was an average over a game' in relation to Swansea yesterday.... now, firstly, every possession stat for a match will be an average for a game...well done. Swansea were away to Spurs...therefore there was a high probability that Swansea would have less possession, just as they will when they play United or City away. The usual Swansea game is based on high possession football, because they kept it on the ground, and this is illustrated through consistently high possession stats and good pass completion figures. But we are not dealing with a one-off average with Stoke are we? you understand that concept right? they had around 40% the WHOLE of last season, which was their best I believe in the division so far. They consistently, home and away, have less possession than their opponents, hence their insanely low possession stat, despite low-mid table finishes. This is because they fundamentally play DIRECT football. Now in response to his stat, this factual declaration which can easily be authenticated, you have given bullshit...you have said they play some good/great football, which you have seen them play (Well done...even the infamous Wimbledon team played 'some' good football), and suggested I haven't watched them much, presumably because I had the audacity to think like most football fans, and doubt your opinion in relation to Stoke's football. What you say is not supported by stats, or general opinion. Yet again you have not answered my question. Is it so hard?

I have asked, and I will ask again, if Stoke do not play fundamentally direct football, why do they have the consistently lowest possession stat of every team in the league? and low pass completion stats? (despite 14th-11th? placed finishes, which illustrate they are more successful in terms of points than at least six other teams). Now try to understand the concept of an answer...it is not a response to state that Swansea had 40% possession yesterday, because it was a one off match...surely you can see the flaw in that logic? and with respect to their dirty tag, Stoke's manner of playing, which Distin among others as pointed out, is not confined to one or two players...Huth as you acknowledge is dirty. Charlie Adam, one of their summer signings, is also an extremely dirty player, whilst Nzonzi hasn't the best of reputations in that respect. Whitehead currently leads the league in yellow cards, whilst Wilkinson has put in several poor challenges this season, and has a general reputation in the game. Shawcross has been responsible for two broken legs, and also receives far more than his far share of yellow cards. Fundamentally therefore, this team has a series of individuals who receive many yellow and red cards, and who have a reputation in football. The disciplinary table in this case backs it up. Now you are right, yellow and red cards are not the sole indicators of a team's level of dirty play...but Stoke also consistently make more fouls, and have a series of players with dirty reputations in football. It is clear that Stoke play a fundamentally physical game, which involves more pushing/pulling and the like that any team in this league. This I have issue with...because I do not think it is productive in terms of footballing evolution..and because I do not think they have a reason to do it. They have had the third highest net spend in the league over the course of the last 5 seasons, and should be moving forward. IMO, which I think is authenticated by general statistics, there only improvement has been in the quality of player, not in their fundamental game. Adam will pass more effectively than Delap...but the ball still ends up going wide to Whitehead, Etherington or Kightly, or/then is directed in the air to one of their serious of tall strikers, Crouch, Jerome, Jones etc

And we are not one red card away from them in the disciplinary table. We are seven yellows, or 3 reds, and one yellow. There is a substantial difference.

Finally, back to possession. You mentioned Swansea, illustrating that low possession does not necessarily mean a direct style...which of course is correct in excluded games, but not over the length of a season.
As a quick comparison, last season in home games, Swansea had 59.5 possession has an average, and 56.5% in away games. Stoke had 41.8% in home games, and 38.8% in away games. The home average for the entire league was 51.4% and the away average was 48.6%. Stoke therefore fell well below the average, and their difference in style to Swansea is well exhibited in the statistics.

Now Ciaran, I don't understand as well, why you are defending Stoke. I've seen your comments on here..you seem to favour good positive football. Now you can represent Stoke as you want...but we both know that if a direct style was not the primary component of their game, then they would have higher pass completion, and possession figures. So why do you oppose a 'Stoke' tag, which whilst tempered slightly, is still fundamentally correct? I am quite certain that if Everton replicated the way Stoke played, you would critic the nature of our football(as everyone right did, when the lack of playmakers resulted in a more regressive style of play in the first half of last season). I'm also, from your comments about Fellaini, quite certain that you'd disapprove of the some of the potentially career ending challenges Huth, Shawcross and Adam have been responsible for.

Jim Knightley
248 Posted 17/12/2012 at 13:14:03
BTW, does anyone know when announcements concerning retrospective suspensions are made? It will be interesting to know: 1) if Fellaini will be charged (although it is surely certain); 2) how many counts of violent conduct Fellaini will be charged with.
Ciarán McGlone
249 Posted 17/12/2012 at 13:13:44
Jim,

A simple 'I'm right' would've sufficed. You add nothing new whatsoever with that epic rant.

Tony J Williams
250 Posted 17/12/2012 at 13:24:25
"Now please....try to understand this, because it is getting frustrating..... "

It's just opinions Jim. Why are you getting frustrated? Ciaran obviously has a different opinion than you and he will not change it to suit yours, no matter how many posts you make.

Accept it and move on. I find this a better practice than arguing for a full day on a point that is essentially nothing to do with Everton.

Stoke are shit! No they're not! Yes they are.......ad infinitum....

Steve Jones
251 Posted 17/12/2012 at 13:42:28
Last from me on this, puts into perspective a bit though I think.

"Robert Huth made light of the Marouane Fellaini headbutt on Ryan Shawcross by sarcastically telling his Stoke colleague he shouldn't have dived.

The morning after the incident the German defender tweeted: 'Hate to see diving in the Prem. Stay on your feet Shawcross.'"

The most enraged people I've read responses from on the incident have been Evertonians on this thread, just a microcosm of society I suppose, we're all looking for something to take the moral high ground on and get enraged about these days.

It seems some people have forgotten Fellaini plays for Everton and on here we all support Everton so how did this thread turn into a discussion from people harping on about how good Stoke are and how Stoke's style is fair and Fellaini had no right or justification to react to constant fouling?

Steve Brown
252 Posted 17/12/2012 at 13:39:37
Ciarán McGlone and Jim Knightley, rarely have I seen such energy and intellect squandered on a less deserving cause... the footballing merits of Stoke City and Tony Pullis!

Suffice to say Stoke are the best rugby league team I have seen on a football field since Wimbledon graced the Premier League.

Ciarán McGlone
253 Posted 17/12/2012 at 14:03:58
"Robert Huth made light of the Marouane Fellaini headbutt on Ryan Shawcross by sarcastically telling his Stoke colleague he shouldn't have dived.

The morning after the incident the German defender tweeted: 'Hate to see diving in the Prem. Stay on your feet Shawcross.'"

----------------------------

Brilliant....Huth gets top marks for that.

Tony J Williams
254 Posted 17/12/2012 at 14:49:53
"Brilliant....Huth gets top marks for that."

Still won't stop Fellaini getting banned.

Mike Green
255 Posted 17/12/2012 at 15:11:32
Ciaran - you do realise that joke's made at our expense don't you...?
Ciarán McGlone
256 Posted 17/12/2012 at 15:39:39
So what, It's funny.
Mike Green
257 Posted 17/12/2012 at 15:50:08
Add it to the list! Stoke... play good football..... aren't dirty..... are funny...

I had them all wrong....

Steve King
258 Posted 17/12/2012 at 16:03:56
It made me chuckle Mike

I always think one thing that sets us everton fans above the shite's is that we can take an honest look at ourselves.....and have a laugh when the criticism/banter is aimed in our direction.

Brent Stephens
259 Posted 17/12/2012 at 16:29:07
It was funny!
Brian Waring
260 Posted 17/12/2012 at 17:32:56
Jim, in all reallity, Fellaini could be charged on all three of the offences he carried out if the ref didn't see any of them, also, because it was several offences of violent conduct in the one game, apart from the Joey Barton game against City, there is no other precedent to compare it against.
Patrick Murphy
261 Posted 17/12/2012 at 17:45:55
Brian, Halsey said he saw the 2nd and 3rd incidents but didn't see the head-butt so Felli gets a 3 game ban. Misses WHU WIgan And his future employers ? Chelsea.


According to EFC official website

Steve Jones
262 Posted 17/12/2012 at 17:48:00
3 match ban it is then.
Brian Waring
263 Posted 17/12/2012 at 17:50:30
That's a right result then Patrick if it's only a 3 game ban.
Patrick Murphy
264 Posted 17/12/2012 at 17:56:28
Good result for Chelsea, Brian if they take him back on the bus from Goodison in the final fixture of 2012.


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