Moyes reveals admiration for Bundesliga

Dortmund do have a fantastic team and a great 'model' in place. Why don't you try and replicate that with your own club?

As for them having a great work ethic...You manage a massive football club, Moyes, bring in the people who suit your philosophy and desire to succeed.

I still can't tell if he is talking about this being something he'd liked to have done when he was first a coach...or whether its a future plan. He speaks in past and future tense.

Closing down, a new tactic?

Good grief, it's one of the axioms of the game...find space and close down.

I've always felt that under Moyes we've tended to stand off teams and not close down properly, perhaps this is the reason why...Moyes simply didn't understand this fundamental of the game..

I'm frankly shocked.

The key ingredients of a top manager - motivation and inspiration - are missing from Moyes and he avoids talk of it by wallowing in this shit.

I honestly can't wait for this unambitious, self centred and deluded buffoon to continue his "education" elsewhere. He angers me with his arrogance, this place is not his personal Further Education establishment preparing him for "elsewhere".

Pulling £3.5 million out of the place year on year with his feet up, pipe and slippers on pompously declaring where he might deem to continue his education is taking the piss.

Laughing his socks off at you mugs who adore him.

As for Dortmund being a club with limited resources I don't know what they make commercially, but I do know they regularly get crowds of around 60,000 and often fill their 80,000 stadium.

Like someone else on this thread said football is a very simple game which is what makes it popular. All this Americanization of possession stats and shots at goal means absolutely nothing, If your team are easy on the eye and score more often than your opponents that is all any supporter can wish for.

Working hard at closing down the opposition is nothing new Dave.

What, like Kevin Keegan? Just shout "come on, lad, you can do it!". And then admit you don't know what to do when the opposition (manager) outfoxes you tactically.

Come on, Barry, there's more than that which is key to managing!

A simple, simple game, my arse.

Football is simple because you have 3 lines – defence, midfield and attack – variations are as complex as choosing to deploy one player between each line, nothing more nothing less.

The day a coach decides to line up with 7 players on the left wing, one at the right corner flag and two acting as decoy doing hand stands in the middle of the park I might concede – "that's complicated".

I'd forgotten it was as simple as having three lines, as you say - attack, midfield and defence.

And, hey, I can tie shoelaces and chew gum at the same time!

If there was a simple ' magic ' formula (maybe stat based) Kendall Mk II and Mk III would have won the league.

It's about the Glory. It's the Holy Trinity. It's School of Science.

One of my team talks consisted of ... you all know where you play (*lists names and positions) score more concede less, off you go, and mostly we did.

Moyes is a roundhead. Sometimes a new model army is what you need, but even Cromwell knew when enough was enough.

I like Cavalier Managers

The real key to better coaching is.......

Ta-da!!!

Better Players.

Unfortunately Moyes has a reputation for just the opposite despite his "motivational" touchline shouting of "Kick it .... kick it hard ..... no Phil, much harder than that!"

I'll leave aside for the moment the concept that someone can give more than their best!

But, they also don't pay players £250k a week. Clubs in the Premier League are now seeing increases in their corporate sponsorship (except Everton, natch) which is 100% a result of the increased overseas broadcast coverage. If clubs operated a sensible financial model, they'd look to reduce ticket prices, instead they succumb to mercenary players and their agents.

Moyes has many faults but motivation and inspiration are probably not up there with the rest of them.

I knew when I read the title and piece that we would get a few on turning it around. He basically states that he is constantly looking to evolve our team and yet this is a reason for some to say he is limited etc... the old PE Teacher line will probably come out soon... that's why I love this site... balanced points always!!!!

I think Motivation is probably one of Moyes's better attributes. We've all seen his ability to be able to get the best out of average players.

It's not the thing I'd consider his biggest problem...

Securing Champions League football would be a huge achievement and provide an increase in income that would allow – in Moyes's mind – Everton to compete. The admiring eye towards Germany is that "financial fair play" has been in effect and that's evened the playing field a little and made for a stronger, more competitive division, which has allowed clubs to focus on developing and playing youth. It's no coincidence the German national side looks so strong.

Moyes, has to some small degree, tried to emulate some of this, through development of players at Everton, or spotting young talent elsewhere (at relatively little cost compared to transfers with other clubs) and focused upon nurturing the talent (Osman, Rooney, Baines, Cahill, Lescott, Gibson, Jagielka, Rodwell......). The critical issue being that we've not been able to retain all of the talent, or bring enough "top" talent through quickly enough, to provide a squad with adequate strength & depth to sustain a consistent playing level for 38 games.

With any type of financial fair play, there were still be big differences in the income generated by the big and small clubs, but it would level the playing field out a little more. I think this has been Wenger's plan at Arsenal... getting them into a position where they are used to turning a "profit" and building a structure of youth development to supplement one or two "affordable" and "allowable" purchasers every year. Don't be surprised if Arsenal are in a strong position come 2 years time

Football.

It's so simple and yet here are you and I mooching around on an internet forum while David Moyes is paid millions of quid to do his job badly.

This sticks in my craw as I can see it does yours.

Fortunately, whilst I know that you or I could do a far better job with our eyes shut ( I was thinking about a career in football but, well, y'know I'm not into roasting.) I do feel that Moyes does his job less badly than all but a few of his contemporaries. ( Ziralex, Mourinho and Guardiola all put in a poor but occasionally acceptable shift ).

So on that basis, in this world of overcomplicated, overpaid, professional footballing mediocrity I hope DM sticks around as the 'least worst' option. Unless my old PE teacher is still around. He just told us to "Go out there and play".

All that needed to be said.

Absolutely agree. Not sure about the 'buffoon' though because he hasn't got a shred of humour in his body.

The irony is he's going nowhere unless BK finally decides to pay him what he's worth and no more. Certainly no-one else will match his absurd salary.

He says that we are local club and a community club and whilst we'd like a Billionaire we don't necessarily need one.

Now I'm confused we either can't compete - as David mentions nearly every week of the year - or we can compete using DM's skills and bringing in young inexpensive talent and improving the age and ability of the squad over time.

Now I'm sorry but there is no evidence that he is good at spotting and nurturing young talent so that's unlikely to work and BK is never gonna have the funds to furnish him with the price of a pint never mind the millions he needs to buy ready-made players.

If Everton have fallen down the pecking order of English Football in the the last 2 decades then surely David Moyes should take some responsibilty for that as he has been in charge of the club for nearly half of our time in the PL.

Football is about a great deal more than hard-work, even the Germans who are the masters of efifciency also realise that players with flair are required to actually win things.

I'd much rather hear an Everton manager going into a game with a little swagger – motivate your players by letting the world know you think you are going to hammer the opposition not big them up instead.

Over the last decade, Moyes hasn't often changed his game plan unless injuries have forced him to do so, a great manager which approach each game on its own merits and be willing to change it up during the game – far more often than not the subs have came to chase a game and with little or no time whatsoever to make any impact

The Bundesliga is a great league to watch as its very technical and you get to see homegrown talent week in week out playing great games and not half as much of this primadonna shite lauded as the greatest league in the world.

But German football in general is fantastic...Economically viable clubs, super ticket prices, and a great brand of football, which I would suggest is nearest to British football in style, than any other league in the world. I can't wait to see how Arsenal cope with Bayern.

And Patrick..what relevance does heritage have in football now days really? do you think players are drawn to Forest because of what they did in the past? Unfortunately, football is about success now, and money. Germany, unlike England, also invested extremely heavily in youth talent at the start of the 2000's, and as a consequence are producing some of the best youth players in the world. England simply hasn't done that, and until we do, we will be unable to compete nationally. It is foreign imports which have kept our domestic league so competitive...and foreign imports are brought with money. How many of the major British teams now are producing their own talent? The majority of the best youngsters we've seen recently have been brought with money/stolen, not produced.

You have to look passed the fact that the teams who have paid out the most for players, have the biggest wages etc, you have to look passed the fact than City were a nothing team until the billions had been plowed into them to make them win their first league title in decades on goal difference in the last minute of the season. You can't rely on this evidence......ermmm.....just because.

"he doesn't seem to understand that whilst our recent history is poor our heritage is better than most other English clubs" - That's all well and dandy Patrick but it's got absolutely no bearing on whether we can get 3 points at Old Trafford does it?

He's an ok manager with a slightly above average team. What is funny is how we (I include myself here) slag the players off all the time (here's where I differ) and then go ballistic because they are not storming up the league pushing all other teams aside. Either we are a shit side and he is doing better with it than we should, or we are where we are because that's how good we are and nothing more.

If it's all about the money then why do supporters bother turning up week in week out.?

I'm sure that kop-ites in the mid to late 1950s thought that they would never again compete with the likes of Man U and Wolves and Man U themselves in the 70s and 80s thought they wouldn't be able to relinquish the stranglehold of Merseyside on the trophies.

but hey football changes and people change clubs, unfortunately we don't have a Ferguson, Shankly or a Clough in David Moyes we have a very organised man who achieves what his paymasters require and possibly a little more than they require but he is unlikely to win trophies on a regular basis at any club he manages.

Manchester United in 1986 were not in a position to challenge Everton or Liverpool but Ferguson set out to make them the dominant force in English Football and he succeeded, Moyes has never set any targets of note because he doesn't believe they are achievable, if he doesn't believe why should the players or fans believe.

If it's all about the money then why do supporters bother turning up, week-in, week-out?

Yep they give them a chance and don't shoehorn a 35-year-old into the team just because he is the Captain.

And you wonder why England's national team are complete shite. It's because we value these virtues too highly. Plenty of huff n puff combined with a strong desire....its the english way. Utter nonsense..

Why do Bolton's fans turn up? Why do Readings fans turn up? etc etc

As fans we're not going to switch off because we don't win trophies, though you can understand why some do. It's the great taboo of top English football...that the majority of teams have little chance of winning anything. I love what Moyes is trying to do even if we continue to be hampered by lack of investment. High tempo, crisp passing and thoughtful movement. It doesnt always work but that's partly due to the limitations of our players and a thin squad. Also I just wish we could shoot!

Nothing more inspiring than the manager of EFC blissfully unaware of how dismissive he sounds as he pontificates about his vision for himself in pastures new.

Fucking fireproof he is.

Not by a long way Barry.

But we are where we are, and in the EPL money rules, it buys the best players and pays them stupid wages ergo the best players want to play at the glamour clubs, and whether you think Moyes is the Moysiah or just a very naughty boy, the truth is that teams without a billionaire will never win the EPL. Perhaps it is the level (or levelish) playing field of the Bundesliga that Moyes admires and wants a piece of.

Yes, they have a huge debt that was placed on them by the owners have, but the core operations are night and day to ours. For the record, Fergie has spent £500m+ on players in 25 years – that's £20m every single year despite football inflation. Moyes has spent £75m in 10 years.

They have a wage bill nearly 3 times ours, a revenue 4 times ours and growing by every off-pitch deal. They have 10 sponsorship arrangements, the latest which will net them £52m per season for Chevrolet... The next Nike deal is rumoured to net £1bn, whilst their training kit deal with Fed Ex is for over $200m. We get £3m per season from Kitbag and a couple of mill off Chang.

If you think the field isn't level now, you ain't seen anything yet.

All the ammunition against Moyes amounts to a few transfer deals that did not work out (far less than those that were great deals – no manger has a perfect record their) and of course, the self-proclaimed master tacticians who always see his tactical errors (after they have happened). Indeed, it’s a simple game: Yes that’s it, you’re in goal, 4 of you in defence, 4 in midfield – let me just check the calculator – yes, we’ll have 2 more up front. Ok, off you go boys, kick in that direction. And as for those who feel money is not a major part of the modern game…… well I’m glad they are in the anti Moyes camp because that in itself really highlights something. It makes for one of those nice moments to drink up and move on with a smile.

Anyone who knows anything about football, and basic principles of management, can see - plain as day - that we have a top class manger.

How could we see Moyes's errors before they happened?

Are you sure you support Moyes?

You brazen attack minded manager you, not a spy are you?

Maybe me and Davy boy could travel over there together.

He can study football while I study drunkenness.

I know he was booked for dissent and had not seen much of the ball but surely you leave your best forward on the pitch unless he's injured.

Going in 1-0 down at half-time and failing to produce an effort of note in the first half meant we had to chase the game but no Moyes as usual playing safety first and hoping to snatch a draw. I certainly wasn't surprised when Noble made it 2-0 after the hour mark.

How we got that penalty when Anichebe fell over his own feet I'll never know, but Baines was there again to put it away. As for the equaliser I can't remember a better goal by Osman what a stunner.

But just when you think that we are going all out to win the game in the last 15 mins what does Moyes do? He brings on Heitinga and sacrifices Anichebe and what happens? Yes, you guessed, it's all WHU and Howard makes his regular error and let's a simple shot squirm out of his control and straight into the net . As for the 4th well that just added salt to the wound, Jags was nowhere near the player and the referee gives a penalty and a sending off for his second yellow card, you couldn't make it up.

Another game, another sob-story — that's David Moyes for you: so near yet ever so far away.

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I notice you didn't actually take the opportunity to explain this complex sub text that we missed..

Please feel free to explain our misrepresentation.

But why think about those things when there's another opportunity to knock Moyes.

Have you got anything to say on the actual points being made.. or is a sideswipe all you've got?

So we take his words at face value.. on the specific point of effective closing down being a new tactic.. and we're misrepresenting..

But you infer a load of waffle that has nothing to do with closing down.. and that's the truth of what he meant?

Aye, ok!

What manager in his right mind is going to point out 'closing down ' as adding 'a new tactical level (what Moyes actually said)' He'd be laughed at, but then that's what you were trying to do.

To suggest that 'putting incredible intensity of opponents to break the tempo' isn't refering to closing down when you don't have the ball is the actual misleading thing here.

Your defence defies his words and is simply resorting to 'Moyes couldnt be so stupid, therefore that's not what he meant'..

Well perhaps he may not have realised the importance of it. Given our failure to do it regularly, and our tendency to stand off teams.. I think your twisting of his words is very shaky indeed.

Ciaran, would you be willing to leave MaccyD's and take over if DM resigns?