Moyes praise for his 'old-style' Chairman

Season	Wages	Net	Transfers     Total      PTS 	place    Cost Per Pt                     
03/04	33.1	        1.55 	  34.65    39	 17   	£888,462
04/05	30.8 	-20.2	  10.6	61	  4	        £173,770
05/06	37	        25.1           62.1       50	 11	       £1,242,000
06/07	38.4 	   4	          42.4	58	  6	        £731,034
07/08	44.5 	10.5           55   	65	  5	        £846,154
08/09	49	         6.5	         55.5	63      5	        £880,952
09/10	54    	-2.8	         51.2	61	  8	        £839,344

10/11	58	        -1.7	         56.3	54	   7   	£1,042,593
11/12*	62	       -12.5 	 49.5	56	   7	         £883,929

Totals	406.8	10.45	417.25
	
Average	45.20	1.16 	46.36	56    	8	 £822,978 

*approximate/guestimate as no data for wages
Source: Telegraph website.

I bet you Bill is worried about DM signing that new contract. Each point on average has cost just under £823k.

NB Michael is there a better way of submitting tables?

On trick is to use the [pre] [/pre] tags around the table. But it switches to an ugly old-fashioned font. (Oh, you need angle-brackets, not square, BTW). But don't worry about it; we'll fix them when and where.... EEEK!!!

Oh wait, we can't tell, cos they have been fired at the first sign of trouble. With each sacking, comes a compensation package that is incredibly hard to fathom. Wasn't it Erickson who was still being paid his compensation a few years after his sacking?

One reason why Ferguson is dominating the league because anyone (Wenger aside) who could possibly challenge them were unceremoniously sacked before things could be improved – Bobby Robson, and to some extent Raneri, Mourinho and Anccelotti were sacked despite their successes.

I know many would say Moyes hasn't delivered.... Granted. But this is the one season he is possibly in the best chance of doing so, and with some style. Not even in 2009 when we finished 5th and runners up in the FA Cup did we have the same dominance.

So, give it a rest. Let this season reach its conclusion. Give him and the team your 200% support, and be the 12th man. Help to suck in the goal towards Gwladys Street. AND then rant like the "expert pundits" that you are capable of when things reach the conclusion at the end of the season.

Now is the time to get behind the team and manager, not sit on your moral high horse and think you can do better than the manager or the team.

Attaboy!!

BUT

Moyes praises Kenwright.

SO

Fans praise Moyes.

Someone doesn't know what's going on.

That pillock would arrange an alcoholics anonymous meeting in a brewery.

Look at Chelsea – how many managers have they had in the past ten years? And our comical friends from across the park – how many have tried and failed there in the last three?

For all BK's faults, he doesn't interfere in team matters. Yes, he's a bungling, comical, laughable, buffoon most of the time; I'm not a big fan of him (BK) but give him credit for keeping faith in Moyes.

Do you think Ferguson would've got past three years with Abramovich? Man Utd finished just outside the relegation zone in 88, but the board kept faith and we know the rest.

Yes, I'd love a rich owner who could give Moyes the cash, but how long would he/they give him? 6 months... a year?

Just a thought, guys, that's all.

We might get a manager in with pots of money to spend, who may, just may, actually win something.

We don't need billionaire owners. We just need owners to buy the club, using their own money and not putting the debt on the club, who can improve the off-field performance to provide the manager with funds to compete. I think Moyes has proven he can manage on a relative shoestring. It's arguable that his more extravagant purchases have been hit and miss.

We won't attract the sovereign wealth funds as we're not a vanity project for them with an out-dated stadium and a tired brand. The only kind of investor we will attract is someone who can see the potential to rebuild the asset base, and then maybe sell on. If they make a few quid out of it and leave us debt-free, I'd be happy for them.

I'd have been happy for BK to do that, but I think he's more than once demonstrated he doesn't have the resources to do it. As it's his own personal vanity project, I don't think he's ready to step aside either.

Of course he has been good for Everton but we can all still make comments as we wish without being told we know "fuck all". I know a lot about football and other matters and I do know that I do not have to agree with you or anybody else about football – surely it is all about opinion.

And maybe, just maybe Kenwright has been good for Everton. Compared to other Clubs and Directors, maybe he suits Everton and suits Moyes. But me maybe I know 'fuck all"?

I don't think Moyes would feel the same at any other club so why the dithering over the contract? He's got a well paid job that he seems to enjoy, the respect and admiration of the media, his peers, Kenwright and, to be honest, probably most of the supporters. It isn't going to get any better for him.

We could do a lot worse, but I also think we could do better. That said, some of the things I always disliked about Moyes he's finally putting right.

For example, there was never any excuse for the dire brand of football that we used to have served up. Out-passed by lower league teams and only stringing 2 or 3 passes together when playing head tennis. Over 10 years, only a handful of games stick out where we played positive football for the entire match (3 - 1 Villa away particularly).

Personally, I think he is getting more and more confidence in the players he has and allowing them to express themselves a bit more. I think he struggles to let them do their job, as can be evidenced by his shouting every pass and movement on the touchline, and Arteta's comments that basically the team were over-coached and sent out with far too many instructions.

If he can get/allow the team to keep pressing for the second and third goals rather than sitting back on one-nil leads, stop spouting negative crap that lowers the teams expectations (think "knives and gunfights"), and never take off our last remaining striker while we absorb pressure, then I really do think he could move himself and us to the next level.

If we did have a rich owner who could give Moyes the cash, why would we care if he was sacked after 6 months when the rich owner could bring in any world class manager he wants? Hasn't exactly done Chelsea any harm as it?

So if it was a choice between new manager every 6 months combined with being Champions of Europe, Premier League winners and FA Cup winners, or keep Kenwright and Moyes and have no money and no cups — which do you think is best for Everton?

Any chance you could post a link to those Arteta comments?

[Not being funny but I think I know the answer to my own question.]

BK needs to get with it. I have just the thing for him...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3623/3450910519_0739fe4c95_z.jpg

BK gets accused of wanting a donor, someone who will just give him money and let him remain in charge. Isn't that what many supporters want though? Someone who will come along and plough their own cash into the club for top players, new ground and trophies and for no return. They will then run the club annually for a profit whilst upgrading the squad at £x millions a year. Some people might kid themselves that that is not what they want, but really it is. We all do, but it is not realistic.

People also bandy this "Moyes has done well despite Kenwright"... but again that is not really true is it? The proof is the numerous comments by Moyesy himself over the years. That's another thing that seems to get conveniently ignored when it suits.

I would suggest that only Ferguson and Wenger have enjoyed the same sort of autonomy during their tenure as Moyes and they have won all there is to win between them.

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. The current model suits all parties. As much as we would love it, there are clearly no big hitters ready to ride to our rescue anytime soon. We have to play the hand we are dealt and at the moment things are going well.

One day, Moyes will leave and we will see just how good or bad it can be. What I will say though is, despite the relative 'success' over the last eleven years, we still have not won a trophy in 18 years. We also managed to survive for 124 years before his appointment.

The 07-08 season was our highest Premier League points tally, a season we scored plenty of goals, but a season that will never really be remembered. That team was far better than the 04-05 team, but it counted for jot as the 4th team hit 76 points.

Wayne,

There was a very good excuse for the dire football we played; to get results by playing to our strengths. If we went out there in the early days of Moyes's tenure like Holloway's Blackpool, we would be in the Championship like them.

We are playing a better brand of football, not because of the way Moyes asks them to play but because he has brought in the players who have the ability to play that way against the teams in our league and compete.

...meanwhile, back on planet ToffeeWeb:

How dare they! Let's slaughter them for it!!

As you say, Moyes has been good for Everton, and so you clearly know your onions. Fair enough. What I am saying is that some people on here whine about Moyes and complain about the lack of silverware AND YET defend Kenwright's stewardship and forgive him for his financial incompetence. It is my opinion, that's all, just as it's my view that without Moyes we would have been relegated years ago. And when Moyes does leave, we will be royally fucked.

I keep on reading and hearing that Kenwright is "doing a good job". Can I ask – for the 758th time – HOW is he doing a good job?

Finally, the fact that you have been going since 1959 isn't that relevant (1971 for me) – after all, we all know Redshite who have been going since the year dot, but who still know fuck all about football!

I like that we rely on money from within the game, doing things the proper way; I don't want to see Everton buy success unless it is money from selling players, TV money, sponsorship, merchandise etc. It would not be success otherwise in my eyes. Its taking the easy option and cheating.

We are not sell-outs and I am proud of the club because of it. Far prouder than seeing Everton achieve success in the way Man City and Chelsea have.

But as we all agree, I hope, football is not logical, it's emotive and opinionated — thankfully in most ways — so we can all disagree and agree on certain points and issues and still love Everton.

I remember 20th November 1971 my birthday: Everton 8 - Southampton 0.

Be great to get 3 points on Monday — we need them.

Don't mention the RS on here, mate — keep it Blue.

Best wishes...

We're all entitled to our view, and yours, if I read your earlier post correctly, is that you would rather we were relegated than "sell out". I can't accept that for a moment; relegation would be a disaster.

As regards Kenwright, you say "he is not the best". Good old British understatement. He has been an unmitigated financial disaster and there's no end in sight. He's not the best, but I WANT the best! We deserve the best and we should have the best. Otherwise we may as well remove the Latin from the club crest, pack up and go home.

I have heard from people who know Man City fans who are not happy about it at all. But yes, lots of new fans have jumped on the bandwagon to success from all over the world who just support the club as it is now fashionable, not the true fans.

It's no longer Man City, it's Arab Billions FC. The last thing I want to see is a club that represents my city and the people of Liverpool turn into a club for glory seekers.

Carl, yes I would rather see Everton do things the right way and give the local kids a try if we had no money and go do down trying than see some billionaire come in and buy the title.

To me, it's the same as what Lance Armstrong has done – he has cheated his way to the top and had the money and the power to do so. Chelsea and Man City are no better. Their title(s) and trophies mean as much as Armstrong's Tour de France victories.

I'd like world peace and free beer. It is simply not going to happen.

I'm not talking about free beer and World Peace, what does that have to do with what I said? What's not going to happen in relationship to what I said?

You want Everton to be successful, i.e. to win trophies and simultaneously to live within their means. It is not going to happen. It is a pipe dream. You may as well ask for world peace etc

ps: As regards the Latin... What do you think "optimum" means?

I also like the fact that, if we did win the FA Cup this season, it would mean more to our fans than those clubs who have managed to manipulate the market over the last 15-20 years.

But honestly if someone was out there with mega-bucks to invest in us, I would say, "Sign here, mate, let's get on with it!" But there's probably not much chance of either happening.

The way things are at the moment, I don't think it can be sustained. Something will have to change either in the rules regarding a wage cap or only being allowed to have a certain number of foreign players or teams having to live within their means. There are already steps being made towards them all.

I also think, once SAF retires, they will sink without bringing in the right man.

So if Man City fans are not happy about their club ownership they are free to support another club, but I bet they don't?

I'm not a Latin scholar but it's the first time in 53 years that I've heard your translation of the Club crest translated to "Nothing but the optimum" and even the official Club website doesn't agree with you http://www.evertonfc.com/ it says "Nothing but the best".

Just so. Remember that banner that they-who-must-not-be-mentioned displayed at our former stadium? It read "DIC SOS". Bunch of whores.

Man City and Chelsea have mostly brough in players for hugely inflated prices and wages with oil money, keeping quality players on the bench thus preventing us from buying some decent players over the years.

They have ruined it for English football and in particular Eveton. Without the Billionaires coming in at Man City and Chelsea I have no doubt we would have broken into the top 4 on a number of occasions over the last 10 years and would probably already be challanging for the tiltle with the CL money received.

The only positive to come out of it is that they have also taken Liverpools place in the top 4.

Moyes has spent modestly to acquire people like Cahill, Pienaar, Arteta, Baines and Jagielka. Most of this has come from the sale of Rooney and people like Johnson, Lescott and McFadden. Those three were bought for around £15m and sold on for nearly £40m. Ofcourse he's made mistakes, Beattie, Kroldrup, Van der Meyde and Bilyaletdinov spring to mind, but to me he's got it right more often than wrong.

I personally think Moyes will walk in the summer. I really hope those on here who criticise him are right, and there are any number of candidates ready to step in and replace him overnight, but I fear there are not. He isn't perfect by a long chalk, but surely even his harshest critic gives him a better rating than Walter Smith!

Good post, that. I find it amusing that people say "be careful what you wish for" in respect of Kenwright but do not employ the same principle to Moyes.

Carl

ps to be fair, although Walter was allowed to spend money on the players you enumerated, it turned out that the money wasn't actually there.

Which club had the rules changed to alter qualification for the CL League?

I’m no Latin scholar either but I do know many English words were translated from Latin and optimum is a word in English, so what do you think the word optimum means on the clubs crest “ Nil Satits Nisi Optimum”? It clearly means optimum not best? Its just a bit of common sense.

And their transfer record in the last few seasons has been abysmal, Henderson, Carroll, Downing et al?, not to mention FSWs bloated squad that amounted to nothing.

City and Chelsea have prevented us from buying some decent players over the years? So you reckon Tevez, Dzeko, Silva, Torres, Mata, Hazard would have preferred to sign for us but were only lured by the Oil Dollar? And don't forget how much money City have pumped into Everton to keep us afloat with the purchase of Lescott and Rodwell, both of who we didn't have to sell to them at vastly inflated prices.

And why haven't we broken into the CL with THAT money received? As well as the Rooney money? Could it be the debt and the living hand to mouth policy of our chairman?

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum means "nothing but the best is good enough". If you don't believe me...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nil_Satis_Nisi_Optimum

Another excellent post. Imagine what Moyes could do with the money that even King Brenny has had..

I remember doing experiments in A-Level Chemistry, testing which element was the catalyst which had the optimum effect. Some substances had a chemical reaction which reacted quickly and agressively; some reacted slowly but some reacted over a long period steadily. So which would you say reacted best? It depends what you are looking for: the one you wanted was the one which had the optimum affect.

Probably not the best explanation but I'm trying to say that there is a difference between the words 'optimum' and 'best'.

Regarding the Club motto I suggest you write to the Club and point out to them their translation of the Latin is not common sense, I'm sure they'll change it.

By the way, what is your 'common sense' translation of the Latin word annus?

As for support, who was chairman for all but a few months of Walter's reign? Dear Old Bill. If I remember correctly, he was as complimentary and friendly with Walter as he is with Moyes. How bad must things have been under Walter for Kenwright to sack him? There are some on here however who will not give Moyes credit for anything. Trying to twist history to somehow unfavourably compare him with Walter Smith is just another example.

SEX?

Christ on a bike, mate, that's the translation, ok?

Unless you win everything there is to win, in style, and boast the most celebrated playing staff, there's always something to moan and bitch about. Even then, there's always the kit, or the provenance of the meat in the burgers on sale outside the ground?!

Woe betide even the most accomplished of managers who dares let their record slip. I have friends on Facebook who are Gooners and who say the vilest things about their manager. To them he will always be remembered for NOT winning the Champions League, rather than for what he achieved with his 'Invincibles'. Perish the thought I'd ever support anyone but Everton, but had I been free to choose who to follow in the last 15 or 20 years it would've been Arsenal. They've played some sublime football and enjoyed loads of success, and so I hope I wouldn't now be bitching about Wenger and calling for his head. But thousands do.

As for the Blues, despite everything (and, I grant you, there's been lots of things to regret) I'm grateful for the combo of Billy No Mates and David Moyes. In 10 years we've gone from perennial strugglers, teetering on the edge of the abyss, to a club that's done enough to have a large section of its fans now bitching that we've won nowt. Cheers lads, you confirm the level of progress that we've made by the very issue that is the focus of your displeasure!

Long may people complain that we've not had enough success, because as long as we're in the top flight, whatever we do win, well, it will not sate the appetites of many on here.

Doesn`t really work that, Ian.

In short: expectations have risen. And quite right, too. I remember the captain of Everton announcing on the eve of a new season that he would be happy to finish 17th or above. Now we'll be pissed off if we don't make it into the Champions' League. Thank God for David Moyes.

I have no intention of contacting the club to change the club motto because idiots like yourself might struggle to relate to the club. I don't know why the club bothered to translate it into English and dumb the motto down. We might as well get rid of the Latin altogether if we are going to translate into English.

How are your 'common sense' translations coming on by the way?

Chris, you seem happy to accept that "we've won nowt" and survived rather than improved and challenged. That's just the sort of no ambition fan that our chairman thrives on. We may as well finish 17th as 7th with that thinking.

Jagielka — England international.
Fellaini — according to some, one of the Premier League's top players.
Lescott — at the time, one of the Premier League's top defenders and an England international.

Perhaps all this 'overcoaching' is doing some of them some good.

And if you can't translate the obvious English usage words from Latin to English then don't pretend you know the meaning of the word 'optimium' better than the Club who adopted it.

"We might as well get rid of the Latin altogether if we are going to translate into English." that's just plain ridiculous, what are we going to tell people who ask what it means? Dunno? Don't have a clue, I'm just an idiot and can't be expected to understand this high falooting foreign lingo?

As for the translation, I will explain it one more time for you: "Nothing but the best" means nothing but the best will do — which is ridiculous because it an impossible motto to implement. "Nothing but the optimum" which is a closer translation to the Latin version, means getting the best or maximum out of what you have — not necessarily being the best.

I think you're wrong on your 'translation'. You can't look up a Latin word in an English dictionary and hope to get the right meaning. It doesn't work like that.

Word for word, it's something like "nothing is sufficient except the best".

I expect an Evertonian who, as the song goes knows, the history of the club to look it up in a book and go to a library.

Not all words are derived from Latin. For example, "best" derives from Anglo-Saxon. The word "optimist" has the same root as optimum and means one who hopes for or expects the best. Actually, the English language has plenty of synonyms, which makes it all the richer and allows for infinite nuance. One word can mean different things depending on the context. In this case, the important distinction to be drawn is between maximum (the most) and optimum (the best).

"Come on you Blues! is a grammatically incorrect sentence, I realise, but one I am moved to sign off with, albeit in abbreviated form... COYB!

Like I said "Thou shall not murder" and "Thou shall not kill" have come from the same text but translated differently by different interpreters. The two words murder and kill are different and mean different things just as best and optimum are different.

Someone has clearly interpreted "optimum" to the most simplistic form of the word which again like I said is impossible to achieve in the context, so "optimum" makes more sense and it is the actual word used so can be interpreted exactly as it is.

OK so we'll concede that YOU are the only person in the history of the Club that knows the real meaning of the motto and everyone else has gotten it wrong these last 150 years.

But I'll leave you with the English translations of the Latin words I asked that your 'common sense' translations might have gotten wrong.

Annus = Year
Sex = Six

Sometimes common sense is not so good in translating eh? And not even insulting!

The word in Latin is "optimum"; in English, that means "the best".

That is the accepted and recognized translation. Your convenient interpretation is incorrect.

If you knew your history, you'd know that part of a motto is the impossible nature of fully achieving what it stands for. That's what the Victorians were all about when they came up with this stuff.

Nil satis nisi optimum — Nothing but the best is good enough

Correct. I think Ian translated the whole phrase into English... except for the word "optimum", which he left in Latin.

No, I think you will find the latter is merely an abridged version of the former.

I'm probably breaking the house rules by saying this, but I think you're just being obtuse.

Anyway, goose-fat roasties await. Bye!

Eric, yes the team on paper didn't look great but in reality they were the 4th best team in England.

I am not saying I am the only person who knows what our club motto is, I don't speak Latin, but I speak English and I know that "optimum" and "best" are two different words although they have similar meanings.

There is no such thing as a perfect translation, but at least you were getting a bit closer (#094).... until you slipped back again (#099).

"Optimum" in Latin means "the best" in English. It does NOT mean 'optimum' in the accepted current English usage of that word.

None of the foregoing is a criticism of David Moyes, just a reflection that it seems odd to defend criticism of David Moyes with comparisons with Walter Smith.

Obviously some words change in meaning over time, whereas others don't. (The word "arse", for example, means the same now as it did in Chaucer's time.) In the case of NSNO, it hasn't changed. It means, "Nothing but the best is good enough". End of story.

Yes, he had Ferguson sold behind his back, but he traded on that for years. Moyes inherited a dreadful squad, with 90% you couldn't give away if you tried. A 7th and a 4th in his first 3 seasons, was a complete turn around on the garbage before him, rightly rewarded with 2 LMA awards.

Perhaps it is 'best' as in: Nothing satisfies but the best (bitter)? If so I'll have a pint please!

Ian, it's only the last 12 months we've been playing consistently good football. Prior to that, you could probably count on one hand the number games in the last 10 years where the team passed the ball and created stuff for a large part of the game rather than just lumping it. The players Moyes has now in the team are largely the players he's had for the last 5 years or so. Baines, Pienaar, Jags, Osman, Neville, Fellaini, Hibbert, Anichebe, Heitinga.

We've also lost technically good players like Arteta, Lescott, Yakubu.

We've shown we can still play good football and win games without Mirallas and Gibson who have been missing for most of this season, so who exactly have we signed in the last 12 months who has suddenly made everything click and had us playing like the scouse Barca?

Truth is that we've always had the squad to play good football and beat most of the teams in the league. Believe it or not, we're not Premier League paupers when it comes to amount spent on the playing squad and its therefore not a requirement to play shit football to compete.

At (#042) you stated: It does not mean "Nothing but the best", it means "Nothing but the optimum". — that is completely wrong.

You invented something for yourself based on a mistaken assumption about the Latin word 'optimum', which means 'the best'. No-one uses the word 'optimum' in the English translation of the Everton motto.

'Be careful what you wish for'.

ZZZZZzzzzz

Tired, boring and overused cliche alert...

As I say, Jags still hoofs the ball like he always has. Neville still cant pass a ball forwards more than 3 yards. I would say our only good football while Mirallas and the likes have been injured has been the Pienaar-Baines-Osman axis which has always been capable of good football, only Osman has taken on the role of Arteta and not played on the wing, where he was close to useless, because we had no-one else to play there.

Furthermore, Baines, Osman and Fellaini have all improved as they reach their prime, even Victor has improved or at least in attitude. Also Jelly's willingness to work for the team by creating space and good build-up play has been a lot more helpful than some of the previous strikers we have had.

I thought when Yak was at his best when we finished top of our group in the Uefa/Europa cup, a lot of the football was as good as this season. I think the introduction of Gibson has also allowed our attacking players to concentrate on attack like when we had Carsley and also the new attacking threat on the right side with Mirallas and Coleman has added a new dimension to our play.

Stop being wrong, for goodness' sake. The translation is, "Nothing but the best is good enough".

Always has been, always will be.

Michael, I think that it's up for debate unless the some kind of Latin Scholar or the person who invented the word says so. You can't really prove it either way.

To me you are contradicting yourself because you say the Latin word 'optimum' and the English word 'best' mean the same thing... but then it can't be “Nothing but the optimum" because its completely different to “Nothing but the best”.

You are telling me that the context of the word 'optimum' in Latin is a different word to the word 'optimum' in English. So basically it’s a massive coincidence that they used the Latin word 'optimum' which means similar to the English word 'optimum' and that there is no relationship between the two words.

Fellaini, Yakubu, Bily, Beattie AJ, were not bargain basement buys and were way beyond anything spent by Walter Smith. This is not a criticism of David Moyes because I believe his transfer dealings have been excellent. He has, however, like Smith and every manager, signed some duds.

Smith saw Everton through bad times with loyalty and dignity. Finally he recommended David Moyes. I much prefer the Everton of this season to the Everton of Smith's time but Smith played the hand he was dealt with as well as possible.

Its still almost entirely the same group of players that was deemed only capable of hoofball a couple of years ago, with people pointing to a lack of money which was forcing moyes to play hoofball against teams constructed for far less cash.

The players develop, the manager develops. Moyes is a very cautious manager, and I think he's always been reluctant to give his players too much freedom, or play untried players. I think he's got a bit more confidence in the players at the moment.

I recall a particularly strange statement after Rodwell had gone on his mazy run and slotted past the Man U keeper, where Moyes basically said "I wasn't aware he could do that". It makes you wonder if Moyes was saying to him to keep it simple, game after game, and not really push him to see what he could do. When Rodwell played for England he generally looked a different player, with energy and runs and getting into the box. Obviously the England coaches had given him a bit more licence.

Let's remember how it started: YOU said they were totally different, and one (best) can't be true, because it's an impossible ideal... so therefore the other (optimum) must be true.

That's where you couldn't have been more wrong. There's no contradiction if you keep the two languages separate.

The meaning of the motto is fixed. Always has been. There's no coincidence, but the confusing bit is that word 'optimum'. It means 'the best' in Latin; it has a somewhat less absolute meaning in English.

You talk about 'context' but it is just down to translated meaning. In your first post on this (#042), you grasped the difference in meaning EXACTLY between the two... but you chose the wrong one!!!

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum — Nothing but the best... Okay?

http://translate.google.co.uk/#la/en/optimum

As do a few other website that translate languages

Vos postulo impetro a lagois

Best of luck with that.

Howard
Hibbert Jagielka Distin Baines
Osman Fellaini Rodwell Bily/Gueye
Cahill
Saha

Howard
Coleman Jagielka Distin Baines
Mirallas Gibson Osman Pienaar
Fellaini

Jelavic

One team has pace and trickery on the flanks, two attacking full backs, a balanced midfield with two midfielders with aggressive passing ranges, an attacking mid scoring goals allowing us to play long or short, and a top quality striker.

The other team has a redundant central midfield pairing capable of passing only sideways or backwards, it has no pace or penetration on the flanks, and has a completely impotent forward pairing (not that they were getting any service anyway).

Do you really expect these two teams to play the same style of football? I can buy an argument saying that Moyes should have moved Osman infield a long itme ago and Fellaini up top, the football would have improved, but you cannot say that Jelavic, Gibson, Coleman, Pienaar and Mirallas coming into the team should not make a difference to the style of football, of course it does it's half of the first team!

Yes because optimum is an English word which I am saying is taken from the Latin word optimum just as a lot of other English words were taken from Latin, so why change it and interpret it if it doesn’t need interpreting when the original word is true to the motto than the word it is translated to.

Michael, I still think its open to interpretation none of us are fluent in Latin.

I have heard other expert interpreters of languages disagree about the meaning of words in other languages so who are we to say with great certainty what it means? If we were asked the meaning of some English words we would probably argue over the meaning just as much until we checked the dictionary, but then you could probably find another dictionary that would say something slightly different.

On another topic, it was fascinating to watch the documentary on BBC about the Big Freeze of 1963 (the documentary was made in 1963, not a modern programme). When covering the football freeze-up, they didn't mention that we were about to become Champions. Bastards!

Player Club Fee

8 Feb 2002 David Ginola Aston Villa Free 
8 Feb 2002 Lee Carsley Coventry City £1.95M 
31 Jan 2002 Tobias Linderoth Stabaek £2.5M* 
Nov 2001 Jesper Blomqvist Manchester United Free 
17 Jul 2001 Tomasz Radzinski RSC Anderlecht £4.5M 
5 Jul 2001 Alan Stubbs Celtic Free
24 Oct 2000 Mark Hughes Blackburn Rovers Free 
17 Oct 2000 Gary Naysmith Hearts £1.75M 
17 Oct 2000 Idan Tal Maccabi Tikka Petvah £700k 
17 Aug 2000 Duncan Ferguson Newcastle United £3.75M 
24 Jul 2000 Thomas Gravesen SV Hamburg £2.5M 
18 Jul 2000 Niclas Alexandersson Sheffield Wednesday £2.2M 
17 Jul 2000 Paul Gascoigne Middlesbrough Free 
14 Jul 2000 Alex Nyarko Lens £4.5M 
4 Jul 2000 Steve Watson Aston Villa £2.5M 
30 Jun 2000 Alessandro  Pistone Newcastle £3M 
27 Apr 2000 Andrew Pettinger Scunthorpe Utd £45k 
7 Mar 2000 Stephen Hughes Arsenal
3 Sep 1999 Abel Xavier PSV Eindhoven £1.5M 
5 Aug 1999 Mark Pembridge Benfica £800k
13 Jul 1999 Kevin  Campbell Trabsonspor £3M 
22 Jun 1999 Ibrahima  Bakayoko Marseille £3.7M 
18 May 1999 Richard  Gough San Jose Clash Free 
25 Mar 1999 Scott Gemmill Nottingham Forest £200k 
22 Feb 1999 Peter  Degn Aarhus £200k 
16 Feb 1999 David  Weir Heart of Midlothian £200k 
12 Oct 1998 Ibrahima  Bakayoko Montpellier £4.5M 
23 Sep 1998 Steve  Simonsen Tranmere Rovers £1.5M 
31 Jul 1998 David  Unsworth Aston Villa £3M 
29 Jul 1998 John  Collins AS Monaco £2.5M 
27 Jul 1998 Olivier  Dacourt RC Strasbourg £4M 
15 Jul 1998 Marco  Materazzi £3.5m

I refer the Hon Gentleman to the reply (122) I gave some moments ago.

Wayne - Moyes was right about Rodwell, he never did that driving run since. That goal not only clinched the three points, it added about £8m to an average midfielders price tag.

In the last round of Prem League games, Home v Swansea, Jags had the highest pass completion in the entire Premier League!

I found this hard to believe but it was in fact true.

Maybe he still hoofed it but Fellaini won every header?

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum
is a Latin phrase that means "nothing but the best is good enough".

* Since 1878 this has been the motto of English football club Everton F.C.. Evertonian internet users often use the abbreviation "nsno" to represent the full phrase. This is believed to be largely down to the popular Everton website which does the same, nsno.co.uk

* Loughborough University also uses this phrase, referring to its sporting and academic excellence

* Rutlish High School(London, Merton) Combined Cadet Force C.C.F. also use this phrase, it is printed on their PT (physical training) kit.

It is also the moto of 967 (BAE Warton) Squadron Air Training Corps.

The G.O.Y.A. MS Recreational Athletic League, located in Philadelphia, MS, has also adopted the phrase. Their founder, Greg Hanks, is an avid football (soccer) fan and combined various football club crests, including Everton's, to make the crest of his league.

So I think whilst those pedantic types may be correct in a scholarly way, the vast majority would concur with the popular interpretation.

That list brought back some memories that I had hoped would remain buried forever. Stephen Hughes, Alexandersson, Gemmill... it makes my flesh crawl to recall Ginola and Gascoigne in Everton blue. Christ, they were desperate to
times.

Walter and his negative tactics, seven or eight defenders on the pitch, his scabby signings, his crazy formations, his feuds with younger players, etc ad nauseam...

I looked on about four websites that translate languages and all had the English translation of the Latin word 'optimum' as 'best'. That to me suggests the club and other posters seem to have the right translation. Definition of the word doesn't need to come into it.

Some controversy has always surrounded our School Motto, because of its ambiguity.

Some translate it as "Nothing but the Best" (Nil Satis Nisi Optimum). Although an incorrect translation, it gives us an insight into the foundation of this school. Working in a school which openly dedicates itself and its work to God, it is right that we work to our very best. Nothing else will do, for it is God we serve.

The slightly more correct translation, "There is no sufficient best", or "Your best is not good enough", gives us further challenge - our task here, whether pupil or staff, is to improve the level of our best effort. If we work at our best, but do nothing to improve on it, what do we gain?

It would seem that the motto, and it's twofold translation, gives us a solid and demanding standard by which to live our life in school.

Not much help, but I wonder if BK knows its meaning?

= £23m 13 years ago!!!! A couple of bad buys, misled about the job..... They were expensive mistakes when Walter went crazy with the cough, history fans, the Ntl money was in the post. A debt that's still on the books.

Martin Mason (fl. 1650–1676) was an early English Quaker, often imprisoned for his beliefs, and a prolific writer of controversial tracts.He was probably the son of John Mason of St. Swithin's, Lincoln. Mason was well educated and versed in Latin.

By the end of the season we were forced to sell Matterazzi and Dacourt if I remember correctly. So Peter Johnson gave him £20M to spend then what?? I was very optimistic at first. Barmby, Dacourt and Collins in midfield wasn't bad but he never got his tactics right... and in particular up front with Duncan being paired with John Spencer (I haven't seen too many worse players in blue).

It's not a choice you can make.

It IS one and IS NOT the other.

Then you say: The word 'best' does not do 'optimum' justice. The English word 'best' IS the translation of the Latin word 'optimum'. End of. Justice doesn't enter into it.

The word hasn't been changed as you say... it's been translated — from Latin to English. In English, it translates as "best"... Are we there yet?

Exactly. Two plus two equals four. It doesn't matter how much you want it to equal five, it doesn't matter how you contextualise it, it's irrelevant what the time of day is. The answer is four.

The translation is "Nothing but the best is good enough". That's all there is to it.

I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise to everyone for initiating this storm in a teacup. I'm sorry I mentioned it.

...simpliciter optimum...

Then the team could run out to that hideous song by TinaTurner.

He was lied to and become the wrong man at the wrong time but his appointment showed ambition his teams were never as bad as portrayed they just couldn't meet the historic demands of this club. Once realism set in "existing" with that squad was quite comfortable. Moyes appointment was in line with such thinking he was a novice without any track record. Quite honestly he was a cheap gamble that paid off regarding stability.

The real question is how long do we keep referring back to those times to justify not competing in any meaningful way?

Quite comfortable, never as bad as portrayed. How somebody can come out with that, and write a more demanding agenda on Moyes. Words fail me.

Walter's teams served up the most mind-numbing shite imaginable. Remember that season when we started off with four or five successive 0-0 draws at Goodison? When we didn't score at home until October? Remember seeing four centre-halves on the pitch, right-backs up front, left-backs at right-back? Remember the feuds with Ball and Dunne? Tranmere, Boro...

Can't agree with you, mate. Everton were awful under Smith, just awful.

I'm pleased we're playing football at last but we've missed the opportunities already.

Our run in and the likelihood we'll go to anfield with "something" on it, ie if they win they go above us then it'll be another season as before - 7th ish and no trophies.

Not meaningful.

We are playing good football at the moment but over the last ten years we have been served up some dreadful negative stuff.. Many have lamented this but excused it through lack of funds. You are judging Moyes by different standards than you judge Smith.

And help me out here:

I cannot except what it is being interpreted to by some on here.

What language is that???

I will agree with Barry. The run in away to united, arsenal, spurs, Chelsea, and Liverpool probably means we have missed our chance. Moyes is going to have to break the away hoodoo, and if he does his biggest critics will be eating their words.

Ian, that is not a translation though is it? That's just using the same word.

Optimum is used as a noun meaning, a condition, degree, amount or compromise that produces the best possible result or as an adjective meaning most favourable or advantageous; best. And also to confuse Sun readers.

Sorry about the misunderstanding of that last bit but when you are trying to respond to 5 or 6 people and watch TV at the same time its easy to make mistakes. What I was trying to say was; I don’t accept what other people think the translation means when I consider the Christian teachings.

I have had years of Christian indoctrination and I have never picked up on it giving any sort of “might is right” or “survival of the fittest” or “only the best is good enough” mottos or undertones. It just doesn’t work like that.

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum is like a church/school Christian motto that Everton have used because of the whole St Domingo's connection. I think my old school motto was “Fide et Labore” or translated in English “Achievement by faith and work” as I was told but I suppose that should really be achievement by faith and Labour, haha.

Good Night all COYB NSNO! 2-0 tommorrow.

Origin:
1875–80; < Latin: noun use of neuter of optimus best,

He has the same MO as our favourite engineer in Kazakhstan, even down to insulting other posters and then claiming he himself has been the one insulted!

This issue reminds me of the scene in Blackadder 2 when Tom Baker played the nutcase Captain Rum that was going to take them exploring new territories for Queen Elizabeth:

"Edmund: I was under the impression that it was common maritime practice for a ship to have a crew.
Rum: Opinion is divided on the subject.
Edmund: Oh, really?
Rum: Yes. All the other captains say it is; I say it isn't. "

I believe that while Moyes is now generally accepted as doing a great job (as he always has by me) I'm still staggered at the bile directed at Kim Jong Bill. for me his only fault is that he isn't rich enough to invest the required amount of money and that he can't con his other board members into being stupid enough to throw their money away.

With regard to our motto, it is a millstone around the club's neck as it gives the mistaken impression that the club could and should be always the best to satisfy our supporters. Unfortunately it is based on a miscomprehension; best is not absolute and as interpretation is subjective it isn't analogous to 2 + 2 = 4. The only possible rational explanation of "only the best will do" is only that the club does as well as it can all things taken into consideration (that is, all concerned do their absolute best). The best as some would interpret it is being the best in absolute terms which no rational person would expect from a soccer club such as EFC.

I'm not for one minute saying that having a proper midfielder and creativity on both wings doesn't help to make our game more effective and easy on the eye, but I think to say that players at the top level are unable to pass the ball to each other or pass & move is utter garbage in my opinion. Your theory doesn't explain why lower league sides were out-passing us with regularity. Are their players technically better than ours? Of course not!

Some of our Uefa Cup games were also great to watch (aside from some comical defending) and on occasion we played our peers in the league and knocked it about well too for most of the game.

I think the way a team plays at Premier League level is almost entirely down to how it is coached. If you get a manager who likes to pass it around, that's what your team does. Get a manager who prefers to lump it, then that's what the players will end up doing. Players that don't do what the manager wants don't get picked.

As an aside, I'm not sure Jelavic is worlds apart from Saha in terms of quality. When Saha was fit, he was a great player, but he suffered from being starved of any service. Jelly works harder for the team and is a better poacher, but in terms of having the quality to play pass & move, I'd say there was nothing wrong with Saha.

As for CL being a pipe dream, we did come 4th not that long ago so although its very tough its certainly not impossible!

All things being equal, we probably should be about 7th or 8th, but several teams with better more expensive squads will have harmony problems, issues with pressure(i.e. needing to qualify for CL) or a instability caused by a change in manager. All of those things can conspire to allow us to get the last CL place.

This thread is comedy gold.

The above quote is quite possibly the most hilarious and misconceived attempt at an explanation I've ever seen..

The seemless and nonsensical integration of Latin, Christian indoctrination and Darwinism is frankly a thing of great beauty and absurdity.

Please keep it up Ian.

Here we are, looking at our best chance of breaking into the Champions League elite, and those useless fuckers, who masquerade as a board, can't scare up funds for a couple of players. They could easily underwrite a short -term loan, but refuse to have anything to do with the club, apart from pocketing the proceeds of any sale.

This is fuck all to do with BK either, he's potless anyway. Earl & Woods could easily put up any collateral the banks would require. The rise in TV revenues next season would cover any short-term loans.

Arsenal & Liverpool will never be as weak as they are right now, and I didn't witness a superstar Spurs yesterday either.

Moyes must be privately pulling his ginger locks out.

Nothing but the best is good enough? Are our players the best in the league, the world? No, so the motto means fuck all at this moment.

A translation Ian = a translation, not using the same word. Our own club uses the phrase as a selling point with a range of clothes, it is on my season ticket so I really cannot see why you are attempting to argue it.

Certainly this fits my own anecdotal evidence of watching random matches with other teams playing.

Although the Everton renaissance over the last 12 months has been dramatic it is part of a dynamic that has affected the whole league over the last few years.

A couple of other arguments going on on this thread:

1. Translations are tricky and sometimes not perfect... but there is 99.99% consensus on the translation of the motto, it's the one we all know and love. To try and argue otherwise is silly.

2. Moyes's teams did play exciting stuff at times in the past. Most notably when he first arrived (scored a lot and conceded a lot – and lost a lot – 6-2 to Newcastle) and 2007-08 and again in 2008-09 (after a brief period of getting over the departure of Carsley).

3. Walter Smith was a new fresh dawn, but it just did not turn out well. He was an honourable man no doubt and was not the worst manager in the League, but we did not even punch our weight, let alone punch above it. By the end it was simply all negative, and not even doing that well. There was an immediate improvement when Moyes arrived and that lasted a good 18 months before he ran into his first rocky patch.

On the subject of Darwinism and Christianity. Many laughed at and still do criticize Darwin’s theories and the Christian teachings, I don't give toss either way, I just enjoy a good argument when ive got some time on my hands. Everyone can have their own opinion but we probably wont ever know what is right and what the truth is.

We would ever get to the truth or make any progression if people just blindly believed what they are told. I might well be wrong, but I think it was worth having a go and putting another idea forward. If not, it was worth it at least for the laughter I have provided you.

Our Motto is written it Latin so we can never no exactly what it means in English. As seen on this thread there are at least 5 different meaning put forward, so at least 4 are wrong.