Neville ponders Everton future

, Liverpool Daily Post , 8 February, 74comments  |  Jump to most recent
Talks have not yet been planned about an extension — even though Neville has started 20 matches already this season — and that's just the way he wants it. “I'm quite relaxed about the situation,” said Neville.

“I spoke to the manager before Christmas and he asked me what I wanted to do. And I said I wanted to speak probably more towards the end of the season. I think I'm a year older than Sylvain Distin (who has just signed a year's extension).

“When I spoke to the boss I'd just come out from having my knee operation and I think it's sensible at my age to:

  1. See how the body is.
  2. See how my situation is within the club; and
  3. At the end of the day, ask, ‘Do I still retain the hunger and the determination, and more importantly am I still having a positive effect on the team?'

“These are the things over the next three or four months that I'll be weighing up and we'll take it from there.

“There's no real panic or mad rush to talk about or discuss a new contract. At the end of the day there's bigger and more important things to concentrate on.

“I suppose it's more about me rather than about the club — it's about how I feel. I've been at Everton for the last eight years and I've been captain and I've been a large part of what's been going on.

“But I want to remain as influential and if felt I wasn't as influential or I felt my form had dropped, or if I was standing in the way of someone who was coming through then I would have to look at it.

“That's the reason why I'm in no rush. I'm not worried at all because there's a great understanding between me and the club. Phil Jagielka is obviously growing into the role of captain and I don't want to stand on anyone's toes by holding anyone back.

“That's my thought process really,” he added.

“I just want to take each game as it comes and focus on my playing more because getting in the team is my biggest priority.”

Quotes or other material sourced from Liverpool Daily Post



Reader Comments (74)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Dick Fearon
1 Posted 08/02/2013 at 07:41:33
Spoken like a gentleman and sportsman.

As they say in Oz, 'On yer' Phil, you old bastard.

Pete Anthony
2 Posted 08/02/2013 at 07:57:21
Well said Pip and Dick: Spot on.
James Morgan
3 Posted 08/02/2013 at 08:04:30
Dick,

You missed out the word 'bike.'

Nick Entwistle
4 Posted 08/02/2013 at 09:17:39
He'll be morphing into coaching more and more I suppose. If Moyes leaves this summer it may be a season too early for Pip to take over but I'd still place a fiver on it.
Phil Walling
5 Posted 08/02/2013 at 09:44:39
It would be an easy call for BK to make but few players find it easy to make an immediate transition from playing to managing — particularly at the same club.

Personally, I`d say `Thank you and goodnight` — but then, I`ve never been one of his greatest admirers.

Gavin Ramejkis
6 Posted 08/02/2013 at 10:29:51
Retire with grace or stink the place out as lack of pace takes over.
Brian Waring
7 Posted 08/02/2013 at 10:46:59
I think he would stay on at the club in some sort of coaching capacity, maybe working with the kids, because at the end of the day he would be a great role model for them. He is IMO nailed on to become our next manager when Moyes moves on. At the end of the day, he knows us inside out and has worked under one of the greatest managers ever in Ferguson, so he must have picked up a thing or two.
Kevin Tully
8 Posted 08/02/2013 at 10:59:27
I've got a bad feeling about all this. Here we have Neville with managerial aspirations, Duncan Ferguson has just got his coaching badges, with Stubbs & Weir jockeying in the background.

If Moyes goes, which is looking more likely by the day, you can see these dopes appointing most of this team as a replacement, a recipe for disaster. We need a respected manager with new ideas — ex-players with no managerial experience won't work.

If we are prepared to spend the equivalent of Moyes's salary, we can attract a top class manager.

Rich Williams
9 Posted 08/02/2013 at 11:12:14
Has there been a good manager that played under Fergie yet? Bruce, Hughes, Robson, Keane... Solksjaer maybe?
Mark Rawsthorne
10 Posted 08/02/2013 at 11:44:45
Well, if you count our very own Moyesie as a good manager, then Yes, Rich, he played under Fergie at Aberdeen.
Phil Sammon
11 Posted 08/02/2013 at 11:55:40
BK wouldn't have to pay any compensation if Neville became boss, of course. Quite possibly the key factor when the time comes.
Philip Quilliam
12 Posted 08/02/2013 at 11:56:57
I'm with Gavin here. I wouldn't have put it quite so bluntly but his time playing Premier League football is done. The longer he stays then the more the temptation for DM to put him in the team as he obviously considers him "a safe option" ahead of players who will be our future and we need to find out who these guys will be and what they can produce for us on a consistent basis. I have no objection to him taking a role in coaching as I think he has been a good role model for young players.
Tony J Williams
13 Posted 08/02/2013 at 12:06:45
Good call, Rich.
Harold Matthews
14 Posted 08/02/2013 at 10:59:10
Yes, like Heitinga he just doesn't have it any more and Moyes should realise this. Picking him against the wishes of the crowd has resulted in the kind of ugly scenes he does not deserve. Remember this is a guy who, on more than one occasion, put the great Gareth Bale in his pocket. Off hand, I can't think of any other defenders who have managed to do that.

Not sure about Jags having the armband. He's a fantastic centre back who gives everything and leads by example but he is also a very nice bloke. Too nice and too forgiving. However, he will get the job because the only alternative is a walking sicknote. The "Roy K" of our midfield,Darren Gibson. Watching him tear into a terrified Leighton Baines after our hero had made an almighty defensive cock-up was very reminiscent of one of the greatest captains I have ever seen. Probably has the same accent too.

Richard Reeves
15 Posted 08/02/2013 at 11:59:00
Kevin Tully, I completely agree.

What I would like to know is how many posters on here would be happy with Neville or Ferguson as manager.

Harold Matthews
16 Posted 08/02/2013 at 12:10:23
Lay off lads. This 'Neville for manager' stuff is scaring the hell out of me.

Kevin, I'm with you all the way on this. Excellent post.

Richard Reeves
17 Posted 08/02/2013 at 12:10:32
Surely if Neville does sign a contract extension, it will be an indication that Moyes will be staying as it would be irresponsible to give a player of his age more playing time and wages we can't afford only to try and impress another manager.

I want Moyes to leave at the end of the season; also, because I've always thought Neville is a shit footballer and is holding back the younger players, I'm hoping there will be no contract extension. He's hinting to it... now he just has to do it – the decent thing, that is!

Roman Sidey
18 Posted 08/02/2013 at 14:06:29
Phil raised a good point – that BK won't want to poach a manager and have to pay compo, so it's either a new manager or an out-of-work manager. I think, of the list given of ex-Fergie coached coaches, Keane hasn't been given enough of a chance, and his type is probably what a team full of complacent players needs (not advocating him as much, as advocating his personality as a good one for management).

Reading Pip's quotes was honestly like a game of tennis. One line I'm saying "Good stuff, Skip. Truly super stuff." The next lines is more like, "For fuck's sake, you are oblivious to your own short comings!" Then back again.

I guess all things being equal, the stats really do support his inclusion in the team. The question is, are we winning despite his presence, or because of it? I'd support him for another year if he was playing RB only.

Steven Telford
19 Posted 08/02/2013 at 14:07:47
I can admire him for his work ethic, commitment, etc. However...... BIG 'However" — There is something very uninspiring about EFC having to be content with the sort of mediocrity and lack of fire associated with Pip. Admittedly we miss him (a bit) when he is not there, but I feel that says more about the squad than it says about him.

If he ever becomes manager, he would need to be a bit more ruthless and inspirational than what he is as a player.

Positives: he has worked under two of the best mangers in the world.

Negatives: he is Phillip Neville for fuck sake!

Jags for Captain, that would be step forward.

Brian Waring
20 Posted 08/02/2013 at 14:28:54
Steve, I know one of the great managers Neville has worked under, that being Ferguson, scratching my head on the second one because, after Man Utd, Neville came to us and played for no other manager in-between.
Ian Campbell
21 Posted 08/02/2013 at 14:35:43
Brian, what do you expect with no money? But Moyes has still taken us from a top-15 side to a top 5-7 side.

Yes, he makes bad decisions here and there, as all managers do, but you must have amnesia or would you really prefer Walter Smith, Mike Walker et al? Liverpool have shite managers year after year and the fans still love them and yet we have a great manager that Evertonians resent, maybe some of our fans got more of a kick out of avoiding relegation each year than narrowly missing out on Europe.

As for this thread, give Neville another year for cover in MF and RB but make Jags captain.

Paul Ferry
22 Posted 08/02/2013 at 15:27:40
... or I felt my form had dropped'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John Sheron
23 Posted 08/02/2013 at 15:27:40
I'd have Pip in a management position at EFC in a heartbeat.

Working and playing exclusively under SAF and Moysie (albeit with different degrees of success) and given his professionalism, personal demeanour, reputation, media awareness and having already achieved the pre-requisite coaching badge contribute to him being a shoo-in.

Dont get confused with whether you agree with him currently playing in midfield or right-back. He is a class act.

Brian Morton
24 Posted 08/02/2013 at 15:36:22
Mark 547, Moyes never played for Aberdeen under Fergie!!! Up here he played for Celtic, Dunfermline and Hamilton.
Colin Glassar
25 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:18:27
Please retire Neville. You are embarrassing yourself, your friends and family and us with your lack of pace, passing, tackling ability. You are earning a fortune and giving nothing back in return apart from some finger pointing and frowning.
Brian Waring
26 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:24:24
Ian, Steve said "two of the best managers in the world" — So, are you seriously agreeing with Steve that Moyes is one of the best managers in the world?

Also, why do we have some lads on here who always feel they have to come out with the 'Walter Smith, Mike Walker' shite?

Gary Carter
27 Posted 08/02/2013 at 16:37:42
All you people slagging off Pip should have a look at our win ratio, goals scored, and goals conceded this season with and without him, maybe some of you with any decency might not be so disrespectful towards him.

Good football teams don't consist of 11 Messis; someone has to lead and someone has to do the dirty work. Fortunately we have a manager that recognises this and that's why we enjoy the moderate success that we despite our very very limited finances.

Ian Campbell
28 Posted 08/02/2013 at 17:57:56
Brian, based on his achievements, I think many would argue that he is one of the best.... whether that's one of 10 mangers, 20 managers, 50 or 100 etc, who knows.

Generally the best mangers find work in either England, Spain or Italy and, in a world where managers get no time, Moyes has worked wonders, been here for over a decade and elevated us 10 places in the league with no financial backing.

Not sure what your definition of a great manager is but that meets mine.

SAF is a great manager but when you can spunk $24M on Van Persie pre-season it makes it that little bit easier doesn't it?

Referencing Smith, Walker etc isn't shite because some Evertonians are so braindead they can't seem to recall where we were before Moyes came in.

Paul Ferry
29 Posted 08/02/2013 at 18:47:39
Says it all really: vote for January player of the month, almost 2,500 votes in, Phillip John Neville 0%, nul points, zero, zilch, no vota, nout.

Not a single one of us is prepared to press the button for PJN (though someone will now after this post).

Choice phrase of 2013 so far? "If I had a drop in form..." (PJN)

In an ideal world, sideways Phil would not be in an Everton starting eleven.

Andy Crooks
30 Posted 08/02/2013 at 18:54:07
Ian, if, after more than ten years of Moyes, you feel the need to reference Walter Smith, how long will it be before he can be judged purely on his own record? Do you think I could reference, say, Harry Catterick, in criticising Moyes?
Philip Quilliam
31 Posted 08/02/2013 at 19:18:08
I think you probably could, Andy, if you also included the fact that "Everton" fans attacked and kicked him in a car park as well. So I suppose DM is getting off lightly,
Peter Thistle
32 Posted 08/02/2013 at 19:27:30
Hopefully Nev does the decent thing and retires, take a leaf out of his brother's book who realised he couldn't compete anymore. His form is not Premier League quality anymore, time to move on and give the captain's armband to Jags.
Nick Entwistle
33 Posted 08/02/2013 at 19:32:57
There's no better player to have when the opposition have the ball. The fact that he tries to cement his place in the side by giving it away with every chance shouldn't be held against him.
Ian Campbell
34 Posted 08/02/2013 at 20:15:18
Andy the game has changed so much since Walter Smith was at Everton — and not to our benefit: players regularly bought and sold for £20 - 30M + and yet our record signing is still the £15M for Fellaini. Luckily Moyes has done a great job with no money. Can you even fathom where we would be if Moyes hadn't come to us?

It's not just that Moyes took over a shitty team from a shitty manager — he has spent pretty much nothing and we are 10 (ish) places above after 10 seasons. I think that Moyes's own record is pretty good.

Andy Crooks
35 Posted 08/02/2013 at 21:52:38
Ian, Walter Smith was not a shitty manager. David Moyes has spent money. We have, at times, under Moyes produced some of the worst football I have ever seen from an Everton side. My point is, that referencing Walter Smith to defend Moyes is a lame defence indeed ten years on.
Brian Waring
36 Posted 08/02/2013 at 22:12:48
Andy, the Walter Smith one is up there with "Careful what you wish for" "Name a manager who could do a better job" etc.
Guy Hastings
37 Posted 08/02/2013 at 22:08:18
PN is no mug. Were Moyes to go and PN took over, it would be because he was confident that he could make a good fist of it. He's loyal to whichever cause he's signed to; a good captain (which isn't the same as a great player); he's seen how the whole sodding business works and, just as his brother has won over so many critics as a pundit, I suspect that he'd make a sound manager, too.

Whether he needs to win his spurs at a lower league level is another issue. How many footballing 'greats' succeeded in management? How many caps did Mourinho win?

Ian Campbell
38 Posted 08/02/2013 at 22:06:41
'Moyes has spent money' and you mention a lame defence. I believe he has a net spend of about £3mil a year.

Not sure why you're hanging onto the Walter Smith point as that was only a small comparison that I used and if that's the whole purpose of your post then its a bit boring. Maybe Smith wasn't a shitty manager for Rangers but he finished 14th, 13th, 16th, 16th in 4 league seasons with us.

I love it when people say about playing bad football as if it's somehow a reflection of the manager. Given the relative resources, if Stoke tried to play like Arsenal each week they would unlikely still be in the Premier League. We managed to finish 4th with a minus goal difference but it was a great season.

If your sole purpose of supporting Everton is to be entertained, you should've given up long ago.

Andy Crooks
39 Posted 08/02/2013 at 22:34:33
Ian, David Moyes has also produced some excellent football at Everton and not all of it recently. In my view, he is responsible and deserves praise for it. Therefore, it seems to me that playing bad football is most certainly a reflection of the manager.
Ian Campbell
40 Posted 08/02/2013 at 22:51:35
Sounds like you just want an argument for the sake of it – his team have played some of the worst football you've ever seen in an Everton side but he's produced some excellent football – blah blah. Sounds like what every team goes through in the course of the year.

My overriding point is that Moyes has done a great job and has to be up there with the very best in the league – why you nitpick the peripheral comments is beyond me. So I looked into it a bit further and if this article is correct then up until recently Moyes had a net spend of £1.39mil a season. If you think that's spending money, given that squad's age and players depreciate, then you're on a different planet or you're just pedantic to the extreme.

http://www.ftbpro.com/posts/the.unsilent.minority/73194/david-moyes-wonders-on-a-shoestring-merely-a-cliche

Si Cooper
41 Posted 08/02/2013 at 23:39:43
Gary (#614) - can you give us those figures?

I know Pip has impressive stats for his whole Everton career, but I thought it had been much more even this season.

That is still not what you would call a bad record but it does suggest his influence on the pitch is on the wane, which he pretty much alludes to in the OP.

Jim Brien
42 Posted 09/02/2013 at 00:30:09
At the end of the day, ask, ‘Do I still retain the hunger and the determination"

This is telling. If you're asking yourself this then there's a birdie in the back of your mind telling you your starting to struggle, AND your motivation isn't where it needs to be. He's done.

If it were: mentally I'm fine, I've just got to be sure I'm physically up to it (ie Mark Webber) then that's fair enough.

Andy Crooks
43 Posted 09/02/2013 at 00:37:17
Ian, perhaps I am nit picking but I believe that Walter Smith was mightily shit on by the Everton board and I think that comparing him with David Moyes is pointless. However, I accept that was not the main thrust of your argument.
Tony Cheek
44 Posted 09/02/2013 at 08:35:34
A player with a long and very successful career behind him. We should respect him for that and the fact that he leads from the front and has been a very good captain. I really hope he plays tomorrow and has a cracker against his old team.

In last season's 4 - 4 game against Man Utd, he was instrumental in the two last goals, especially his piercing ball through to Fellaini for the equaliser was class. I think he is past his best now and should concentrate on his coaching career and, you never know he might just pop up again at Goodison.

Roman Sidey
46 Posted 09/02/2013 at 08:48:36
Ian Campbell, okay, he's definitely in the top 78 managers then (I added Germany to the list for you).

I love this "If he could have spent £24M on Van Persie" bullshit. The apologists continue to use this type of comment without entertaining the idea that some managers get to spend that money BECAUSE they're good managers. In the last six years Chelsea have had how many managers? Nearly half a league's worth. Man City have had four. Newcastle, three. Even the big Italian clubs have young, unknown managers now. How many of these big jobs has Moyes been asked to have a crack at?

The net spend is a crock too, because we have actually managed to sell quite a few players at a good profit. "Oh, our net spend is lower than Stoke's", but how many players have Stoke sold for £27M?

Pip would be a terrible spokesman for our club. It's bad enough when he gets on tele for the occasional post-match talkie.

Sam Hoare
47 Posted 09/02/2013 at 09:37:33
Roman, why is the net spend a crock of shit? If you sell one of your players for £27M then you are clearly losing a very good player, most likely one of the best and most important in your team.

People who try to claim that money and net spend have no correlation to success are either in denial or plain ignorant. It's not everything of course and no-one is saying it is. But it is undeniably a huge part of it as witnessed by the fact that only non mega rich team to get into the top 4 in the last 8 or so years was David Moyes's Everton.

Ian Bennett
49 Posted 09/02/2013 at 10:31:35
Roman - how many British managers have gone abroad in total? Robson, toshack, mclaren and woy are the only ones I can think of on 30 years. Like our players, why leave a good thing at home.
Christine Foster
50 Posted 09/02/2013 at 11:32:32
Sorry Guys, fed up hearing this crap about Walter Smith.. a few extracts from various sources... First Wikipedia:
After success in his native Scotland, Smith's retirement lasted a month as he took the manager's job at Premier League club Everton in June 1998. Smith replaced Howard Kendall after his third spell as Everton manager, having only avoided relegation in 1998 due to their superior goal difference over Bolton Wanderers.

Initially Smith was linked with the manager's job at Sheffield Wednesday, but false promises made to him by the Everton chairman of massive transfer funds and unlimited ambition lured Smith to Goodison Park. Smith spent money on players only to discover that it was money the club did not have. When Duncan Ferguson was sold behind Smith’s back, he was tempted to quit. The remainder of his time at Everton revolved around selling the club's top players to balance the books.
Smith had a net spend of £9.5M over three years, (£3M per year) had to beg borrow and loan players to stay up. Yes the team was crap, but he had NO resources or money and had to sell a poor team to keep Everton in the EPL.

In my opinion, he did the best he could having been lied to and left with no money or choice.

Christine Foster
51 Posted 09/02/2013 at 11:40:48
And before you start chucking motors my way, read this from Toffeeweb in 2001, an interview with Wlater Smith and Ian MacDonald, read it and digest, gives you an insight into what he had to deal with when he came to Goodison, in truth he bought us time:

http://www.toffeeweb.com/fans/interviews/ws-int.asp

Jamie Barlow
52 Posted 09/02/2013 at 11:57:41
Roman, you don't have to be a good manager to spend money.

Hughes paid £24 million for Lescott.

Adam Baig
53 Posted 09/02/2013 at 11:49:22
PN these days is a slightly below average Premier League player, but with a lot of experience. Carragher is the same at the Shite. The difference between the two players is that PN has never had support from more than 50% of Everton fans in his 8 years, which – for me – is tragic.

Whatever his skill level, he has never given less than 100% every time he has played for us, in a way that every 'fan' of this club claims they would.

He goes and watches his boyhood team, but when they play us, his kids are wearing Everton kits (not just at Goodison, either).

Any player is fair game for reasonable criticism as far as I'm concerned, and he is clearly struggling for a yard at the moment, but he doesn't pick himself at CM. It seems, however, that some Evertonians can't wait to make him the scapegoat for anything.

Whether he becomes the next manager or not, sadly is up to that buffoon in the Directors Box. If he was given the job, one thing that can be guaranteed is he will give it 100%

Jamie Barlow
54 Posted 09/02/2013 at 12:27:31
Was it Phil Neville who shagged Paul Ferrys bird or was it Kevin Hudson?
Thomas Windsor
55 Posted 09/02/2013 at 13:09:39
Phil been a good signing... but please, Phil, don't sign a new contract. You have done your bit... go before you become a passenger.

Time to move into coaching.

Ian Campbell
56 Posted 09/02/2013 at 13:06:41
Roman – "The net spend is a crock too, because we have actually managed to sell quite a few players at a good profit. "Oh, our net spend is lower than Stoke's", but how many players have Stoke sold for £27M?"

Roman, the point here is that Moyes has bought and sold very well; take out the Rooney sale and our net spend is £3M a year.

Or are you now using the fact that Moyes has bought a player for £5M and sold him to City for £24M against him - that's ridiculous as that just emphasises how he has created his own budget. When you factor in that squads age and most top flight careers last about 10 years, Moyes has effectively spent £3M a year to keep us running and in doing so has taken us between 8-12 places higher in the league.

Love the expletives and the rant you've made and the sarcastic (but not funny) comment about managers but you don't come across too intelligent.

Net spend over last 5 years (as of July 2012) - notice Stoke is £12M a year and ours is a neagtive spend of just over £2M a year – no Rooney factor here either.

1. Man City £382,150,000

2. Chelsea £190,700,000

3. Stoke City £60,075,000

4. Aston Villa £53,550,000

5. QPR £35,650,000

6. Man Utd £34,150,000

7. Liverpool £26,800,000

8. Fulham £23,600,000

9. West Brom £15,915,000

10. Sunderland £11,850,000

11. West Ham £8,100,000

12. Norwich £6,950,000

13. Swansea £6,570,000

14. Tottenham £5,590,000

15. Wigan -£2,750,000

16. Southampton -£3,150,000

17. Everton -£10,815,000

18. Reading -£21,250,000

19. Arsenal -£21,280,000

20. Newcastle -£43,400,000

Roman Sidey
58 Posted 09/02/2013 at 15:15:05
I will always praise Moyes for creating a good budget. The point is, however the money is raised, if it's been spent on the squad, you should quote the price of the squad instead of the "net spend" of the manager. What if Tottenham manage to get £30M for Bale? Net spend of -£25M? Genius that AVB!
Sam Hoare
59 Posted 09/02/2013 at 15:53:08
Roman, if AVB sold Bale bought no-one and still kept Spurs where they were then yes, he would be praised.

The point about Moyes is that he inherited a squad with very few sellable players and despite being given little money by the board (as evidenced by our comparitvely low net spend) took us up the table from relegation candidates to (increasingly unlikely) CL hopefuls. That is why he is held in such high esteem by most people including the neutrals. Don't really see how people can dispute this.

Chris Corn
60 Posted 09/02/2013 at 15:37:58
Christine Foster spot on. There was a time when Smith 'apologists' worried that he might be poached by Chelsea because of the restrictions he worked under. Also Kendall Mk3, despite the personal problems, was royally shafted and effectively ruined by Peter Johnson.

Moyes has achieved relative success under a stable regime and has been allowed to build a squad of internationals on big wages. Whilst of course being paid handsomely himself. Hardly the 'rag tag Sunday League outfit' stuff some people like to peddle.

Everton are still one of the biggest clubs in this country and I will be surprised if Moyes sees a bigger job. My opinion of course.

I also believe the salary and security would attract good quality candidates for the manager's job should Moyes leave. However, I'm sure we will still read all the 'we would only get the likes of Peter Reid, Dave Jones or Gary Megson' shit all over again.

Roman Sidey
61 Posted 09/02/2013 at 16:08:48
Not disputing it, Sam. What I'm saying and what I've always said is that Moyes is a good manager, but not a great one. Some managers are good at improving a side, while others are good at improving a team's culture. I do believe that Moyes has imbedded a culture of being hard to beat, but I also think he gets way too much praise, considering he has had 10 years to build toward winning something, and hasn't done so.

He has a good eye for a player, but he also has no idea how to handle players that aren't completely submissive to his dictation. The best managers in football get the best out of players that are both disciplined or complete basket cases. While Moyes is here we will always punch up around where we are now, but I seriously can't see us winning anything.

In my opinion, putting the Neviller in after Moyes goes will be a step backward, and possibly one of the worst things that could happen.

Sam Hoare
62 Posted 09/02/2013 at 16:20:36
Roman, I can certainly agree about Neville. Not a fan of ex-players making immediate transitions to top flight. I'd probably take Laudrup at this point.

In terms of Moyes, I see what you're saying. Personally I would say he is a very good manager but maybe not a 'great' one. I suspect that Moyes can only really be judged when he is at a club that enables him to compete more financially with the big guns. Clearly that won't be with us.

Ian Bennett
63 Posted 09/02/2013 at 16:30:06
I am pro-Moyes, but would support a Laudrup appointment if Moyes walks. He knows the Spanish market, and has a good name to pull in decent players with the Fellaini cash.
Andy Crooks
64 Posted 09/02/2013 at 17:44:17
Chris Corn, that's the most sensible post I have seen in a while. You should post more often...

Ian Campbell, referring to some Evertonians (those who differ from your views?) as "braindead" makes Roman's "rant" seem quite tame.

Brian Waring
65 Posted 09/02/2013 at 18:10:15
Chris Corn, spot on mate.

Roman Sidey
69 Posted 09/02/2013 at 19:14:33
I'm on the same wave length as you, Sam, and I always do see the sense of your position better than some others that seem hell bent on shooting down anyone that dares voice their displeasure at the manager. In response, I think we've seen enough of what Moyes can and will do when he has players at his disposal, such as bringing defenders on while losing or drawing to inferior teams, not playing proper strikers against West Ham when they were rock bottom etc to make a decision that, given cash, we don't think Moyes would be much better. I think he'd turn out like Hughes at City.

Chris Corn, perfect post. The team that people seem to think Moyes is burdened with is made up of players that the same people claim are the most underrated players in the league - Osman, Hibbo etc - and class players like Jags and Baines who both play for England. Fellaini who is apparently one of the best in the league. I wish I had the same problems as Moyes.

Ian Campbell
70 Posted 09/02/2013 at 21:45:00
Roman, you're quoting Jags, Baines and Fellaini as a means to suggest that Moyes shouldn't complain but you seem to ignore that these were signings that he made and not inherited.

Basically Moyes has in your words 'burdened himself' with a really good team on no money yet the fact he hasn't won something is used against him.

How can Moyes be expected to win anything if he cannot retain our best players and he always has to sell before he can buy. If Moyes had a decent amount of money to spend our squad would likely be reinforced by Lescott and Arteta plus we would have Rooney up front. Players like those would then attract better players to our squad also - a virtuous cycle. 'Great' managers like Ferguson etc have money to spend each year plus they generally get to retain their best players.

Comparing Moyes success to these so called 'great managers' is a pointless process.

Christopher Kelly
72 Posted 10/02/2013 at 00:14:17
Kevin Tully #540 - Fabulous post.

John Ford
76 Posted 10/02/2013 at 00:39:35
Ian Campbell @879 – Excellent post.

It may be the Lidl Rioja, but the second paragraph is a thing of beauty. Simple, razor sharp. Like Richard Dawkins in a keyboard flutter, shows the idea of religion to be complete hog.

Anto Byrne
77 Posted 10/02/2013 at 04:51:18
When Moyes goes in the summer — and this is on the cards — he has shown potential suitors that he can play attractive football so getting another job won't be the problem.

Neville could take off to Old Trafford and be groomed for the SAF role? I can't see SAF leaving any time soon, probably be wearing a wooden overcoat when he does actually go.

A win today at Old Trafford seems unlikely but stranger thinks have happened and we are due a win there anyway.

Roman Sidey
78 Posted 10/02/2013 at 05:43:01
Ian, you missed my point. I know Moyes brought those players in. That's great. I've praised his ability to get good players. What I'm saying is that his apologists continue to harp on about how bad his squad is, when it isn't that bad at all. Small? Yes. Bad? Fuck no. And it could be a bigger squad if the man would occasionally "give youth a chance" as was his early tag line.

Moyes knows how the finances at this club work - he's been here 11 years. If he knows he has to sell a player to bring a few more in, then it's about getting business done early. Lescott was a massive loss, but the way it was handled did more damage than losing him as a player ever did. This summer, if Fellaini talks of leaving in May-June, then we cannot afford to have in handing in a transfer request in the last week of the summer. Sell early, and do some research.

Ian Campbell
80 Posted 10/02/2013 at 13:36:38
Roman, if we'd sold Lescott early then it would likely have been for £16-18mil and not £22-24mil and you can only give youth a chance if they look as good if not better than the current 1st team players.

Your post #724 suggested that Moyes wasn't given money to spend money because he isn't a good enough manager and you also took issue with the point about successful managers having £24mil being a reason for their success.

My points are;
Net spend is significant in judging Moyes, you have disputed this.
Your point #787 doesn't make sense – quote the price of the squad and not the net, if Moyes makes £17-19mil on Lescott and he can spend some of this then he has increased the price of his squad not Blue Bill or anyone else. This is only a positive.
Point #804 – culture vs great manager... how did you come to that conclusion seems like a load of waffle to me unless you're involved in the day-to-day action and part of this 'culture' that you speak of.

Difference between us is that, in judging Moyes, I've looked at it from a subjective perspective – spend and places gained whereas you have looked at cultures that you are not part of, youth players that we don't have, and an assumption that with money Moyes would be no better than Mark Hughes.

Hmmmm.

David Cornmell
81 Posted 11/02/2013 at 06:16:24
I'm not in the MOB by any stretch, I think the man has done a reasonable job. He's been very well paid for it, mind you, so I think Moyes and EFC – and they're not one and the same – are about square.

I see a lot of posts extolling Moyes virtues, citing net spend and the Walker / Walter years. These are red herrings. The budget is what it is, and Moyes has been here long enough to understand and work within the confines of it. The Walker / Walter years are about as relevant to now as the Gordon Lee years to be honest.

There seems to be a growing belief that Moyes has taken us as far as he can, and it's not an argument thats easy to defeat. I guess we're torn between the "be grateful for what we've got" brigade and those who are deluded enough to think that our club motto might actually still mean something.

When you see a guy like Laudrup come along and in three quarters of a season do what Moyes hasn't in 11 years, then you can expect some derision. Laudrup has taken his team to Highbury and come away with three points. And Laudrup is on course for a trophy. Oh, and his team even manages to play some quite eye-pleasing fitba – on a shoestring no less!
To clarify – Moyes is NOT Everton, he will not be here forever, and change is just that – change. The new gaffer may be the next Laudrup; he may be the next Walker. Do most of us want to see the club take a chance and try and find a new man who can take us further?

It's hard to escape the belief that Moyes is the Scottish Curbishley. He brings stability and structure and absolutely zero chance of taking the next step. What do Everton fans want? The chance of something better – or worse – or more of the same old?

Derek Thomas
82 Posted 11/02/2013 at 11:28:57
Pope to resign,

Phil, if it's good enough for him it's good enough for you.

Colin Wainwright
83 Posted 11/02/2013 at 11:52:42
I know Derek. How long before Moyes is linked with the job, do you reckon?
Christopher Kelly
84 Posted 11/02/2013 at 12:19:14
To continue on with K. Tully's post, there really is something rotten here. I don't know what's going to happen here, no one does, but it sure feels like Moyes is going to leave and I for one am ok with that. Sure I think he's a competent manager but I also think if we hire correctly we can have a really dynamic team.

There are so many downfalls to Moyes (our strikers seem to be stripped of confidence, no youth coming through - btw is there anything more exciting than an academy product doing well in blue?-, rolling over to the sky 4 etc.)

There is an "old boys" club feel to Everton now that I don't like. None of our coaches were dynamic, inventive players in their day. All were work horse center halves with little to no guile or vision. it worries me to the core that these types of players have infiltrated our coaching ranks and now have a stranglehold on the style of which we play...

Neville I'm afraid, fits right into this profile. I for one pray that we go in a different direction with our next managerial hire. Lets think outside the box and find a manager that'll have a proper go at some of the big boys!!

Colin Potter
85 Posted 11/02/2013 at 15:39:58
Spot on about the coaches Christopher. Until Duncan came, I cannot remember (I will stand corrected) one attacking coach that Moyes has brought into the club in his 12 years here.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.


About these ads