Can Moyes really be considered a Goodison great if he leaves without wining a trophy?

Far be it from me though not to call McLeish, McClaren, Redknapp and Laudrup as greats. Maybe they are. Mind you Redknapp won his on a Leeds style busines model.

This was another article where it fails to recognise the massive two tier system in the Premier League, and comparing histories with Catterick and Kendell is pointless in this day and age.

If you're not in with the big clubs then you're picking up the scraps. And with that, Everton and Moyes have done better than anyone else.

Also, I'd say that Ferguson pikcing up a title this year is because he beat 2 other teams, not 19. Its no different to Celtic v Ranger or Barca Madrid... there only happens to be 2 other serious teams. City and Chelsea. Then Arsenal, Spurs.... then the rest of us.

So no, its not an era for greats, just great balance sheets cherry picking the best players that other teams can't have.

I don't think you need to win things to be considered a great. Dario Gradi, I imagine would be considered great by Crewe fans. For the most part he kept Crewe higher than they should have been, brought through countless kids and played football.

Most people recognise you need money to consistently challenge for trophies. If we had the same league finishes over the last 11 years but achieved them by playing football and a 'go for it' attitude then maybe he could be considered a great.

I have no doubt that Howard Kendall Mk 1 was truly great although he was denied the opportunity of immortality by circumstances we are all aware of. In comparison with these two, Moyes is no more than `a safe pair of hands`. He has kept us in the Prem and BK in a job. I thank him for the former and curse him for the latter!

Until we have a different Board, which has genuine ambition, nothing will change.

And no, Moyes, for all his positives, can not be considered an Everton great.

My own personal favourite managers are obviously Catterick and Kendall also Clough, Paisley, Nicholson, Shankly and Revie.

I think from this list my choice as the best is Brian Clough. He won back-to-back European Cups with Nottingham Forest and they weren't the biggest club in terms of finance, also to win the league with Derby County was exceptional; most of that team were made up of cast-offs from other clubs. The fact that Clough or Paisley were not given the chance to manage England is unbelievable.

I can't stand Moyes but I've no problem were we have finished in the league under him, it is about the best we can hope for without money.

It's his attitude, tactics and generally being bored off my tits while watching his teams I can't stand. If he had a pair of balls, I'd still be one of his biggest supporters, like I used to be.

Keegan's defence was a joke. Even at the top of the table. I'd also say George Graham is just as likely to be given god like status by Arsenal fans as Wegner.

Comes over a bit spoilt though Paul, you get as high as you say we can on this budget of ours, but you also want great football. Well sure, don't we all, but because you don't have that you want shot of the manager?

To coin a phrase from 90s comedy Fist of Fun - you want the moon on a stick!

Need to win stuff to be considered a great.

I could cope with the odd heavy defeat as long as I knew we'd give it a go and I knew that next week we'd probably give someone else a hiding. I don't want shut of the manager cos we don't play great football every week, i'm aware thats impossible but he doesn't even try. The football played at the end of last season and beginning of this is a very small part of his 11 years, over all we've had to watch crap.

When Moyes took over it didn't bother me cos I knew the most important thing was to improve results but then over time when he had put together a good team with players of a higher quality, he seemed to off set this by becoming more and more negative. I believe when someone works all week and spends his money on watching a match he should be entertained, not always possible but when people go to Goodison they know theres not much chance of saying the words "that was a great game" by the time the game is finished.

The main reason I want him gone and I think deserved the sack was sacrificing the Anfield Derby for the sake of a home tie against the mighty Sunderland.

On the first point Moyes has obviously not succeeded (doesn't matter why) and on the second point, we have in general been served some pretty shite football over the 11 year period. Granted there were a few purple patches along the way and some memorable european nights, but on the whole we've been very poor to watch.

I still shudder at the 4-6-0 formation days (west ham away Dec 2010!), not managing a single shot on target in home games to the likes of Bolton & Stoke, the endless Cahill/Saha partnership that managed 1 league goal in 16 starts, the poor cup runs, scoring one league goal in the first 8 games of the 05/06 season, the numerous (unexplained) poor starts to the season, etc. Obviously there were positives too over the peiod, but far too many negatives.

Moyes is a good but limited manager. Everton great? No, long way to go on that front.

Fast forward 20 years from now and I cannot imagine any fans waxing lyrical about the generally dull Everton sides of the noughties that consistently finished in the top half, playing defensive football (often with no strikers) and winning the f'all.

Saying that though, we fans are very fickle - win the FA Cup this year and there'll be a whole different story to tell.......trophies moyes, that's what we want..

Surely during that time we should have 3 or 4 24/25-year-old someones who have been brought through by a great manager? Fergie did it with Beckham, Giggs, Scholes and the Nevilles and built a world class team around them.

What will Moyes's legacy be to Everton Football Club, Memories of what could have been. Come on Rounders This time Next year we could win the Champions League, so don't be a plonker!

The one thing I will never forgive him for apart from the capitulation to the RS at Wembley is his utter support for that slimeball BK.

I wouldn't lose too much sleep if we go to old trafford or stamford bridge, give it a real go and come away with a loss because they had a bit too much quality. I don't expect the guy to perform miracles.

But when people see the kind of spineless performance and tactics we witnessed so recently against teams which are financially worse off than us, on a regular basis then they have every right to feel aggrieved.

People talk about the board having no ambition. For me, Moyes has no ambition or belief in this squad. To win something you need to risk something. Moyes isn't a risk-taker and for me that is his main character flaw which will prevent him from ever winning anything with us.

You can denigrate the achievements of Laudrup and other managers who've won titles, but swansea were playing lower league football not so long ago and now are established in the premier league, don't look out of place, play good football, have won a major trophy and will be playing in europe next season. They even lost their best player in the summer. Would I give a 7th place finish for a trophy and europe? You bet I would. Whats the point of finishing 7th each year and winning fuck all? I remember Joe Royles FA Cup winning team. Amokachi against spurs and the final with Rideouts goal. I remember that nearly 20 years on. I don't remember much about the season we finished 8th though.

I know that he has carried the club in other ways and I really appreciate him for that, but the nuts and bolts of his job is winning games. Any proper success on the pitch, even if it is in the cups, would take the pressure off the guy off the pitch. It would raise the club's profile and would also increase revenue through prize money and merchandise. Fans will buy any type of merchandise on the back of success, I know would.

No.

Does it work with players? Was arteta, Cahill seen as a great?

He is a victim of being over cautious. Instead of going for the kill he reverts to his default setting of trying not to lose and this is his greatest failing and the reason he won't manage a bigger club than us. In 29 years of supporting the blues I wouldn't even rate him as high as Colin Harvey unless he wins that elusive trophy. Even then, he would still rank behind Kendall and Royle. (Did Royle even lose a derby in his 3 years here?? And that was against a far superior Reds side than Moyes has ever faced!!).

Moyes could still redeem himself, but it would take a lot. He needs to do at least two of the following:-

1. Win a trophy
2. Send out a team to twat Liverpool. (like Royle would have)
3. Admit BK is lying about the club being up for sale!
4. Stop picking the same 12/13 players and then complaining about fatigue. (Use some of the youngsters, if your not going to then don't moan about the size of your squad.)
5. Take both cups seriously. (You have only started taking the FA Cup seriously in the last 4 years; not good enough!)

However, I don't think two of the above will be achieved.

I will be utterly shocked if any of the more moneyed clubs in England touch him with a barge pole. I think Everton will be the pinnacle of his management career.

If you look at the likes of Spurs and Newcastle, not even clubs at their level have ever been rumoured to be interested in him when they have changed manager.

I don't accept that the financial constraints he has worked under can be used as a counter argument. With all of the above in mind, I don't think that he would be trusted with a transfer kitty of forty or fifty million, let alone an open cheque book.

I beg to differ. When you look at the likes of Mark Hughes who was foolishly trusted with a large transfer budget (twice mind you.. with City and QPR), why wouldn't a manager such as Moyes, who has done brilliantly with a small budget, be given a chance at a big club. And no, sorry.. we at Everton are not a big club.

It amazes me how how shallow minded some people are. So if Moyes and Everton go on to win the FA Cup this year and then he goes on to leave in the summer, you will all then accept him as "great". That's rubbish.. you have to look at the whole body of work. And he has dragged us from the slums of relegation fodder to a solid top half of the table finisher on a consistent basis. That is, in fact, brilliant. In my mind, Moyes will always be remembered as an Everton great. Perhaps he will be remembered as such by more of you in the future when we are slumming at the bottom half of the table. Then you can remember the "glory days" of Moyes.

634: "He steadied the ship and has given us an average finish of around 7th but that's probably our natural position in English football in 2013. I like the guy but he hasn't over-achieved as the media would have you believe — he has underachieved."

Oh, you don't say? Everton have a "natural position around 7th in English football in 2013"? And why is that the case? Because Moyes has built the club to that standard.