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Moyes approaching a crossroads

Dion Fanning, The Irish Independent , 6 May, 75comments  |  Jump to most recent
Self-belief will be crucial, says Dion Fanning
In this interesting piece we missed last week, Irish Independent journalist Dion Fanning offers more perspective on the methods and management style of David Moyes from the likes of ex-players like Kevin Kilbane as Everton's manager prepares for a big decision over his future.

In particular, Kilbane offers some insight into how Moyes has changed over the years without ever losing his intensity or attention to fitness and preparation.

Mr Fanning concludes by acknowledging the options open to the 50 year-old Scot when his Goodison contract expires this summer:

This season, David Moyes has demonstrated that he has a group who understand his methods. The regret may be that they haven't really challenged for a Champions League place, and Moyes is not alone in wondering at the clubs' relevance in 2013. Everton's ability to be relevant again will be a factor as Moyes considers his future in the summer when his contract ends.

Moyes could decide to stay at Everton and make another attempt to win a trophy or he might look to work abroad as he talks fondly of the Bundesliga. The clubs in England that could tempt him may not be hiring this summer. Others feel he might take a year off, which would make him the best-placed candidate when a big job becomes available. "He could manage at any club in the world and make a success of it," O'Hanlon says.

Those who know him best compare him to Alex Ferguson. They have a shared background, a shared belief in hard work and a desire to win. "Ferguson, Wenger, people like that are the worst losers in the world," O'Hanlon says.

But there have been bad losers who have failed at management because they fell out with everyone every time they lost. Moyes knows when to fight and when to fight another day. Like Ferguson, he can also be pragmatic. He is also thorough and his organisation of training sessions is obsessive.

Yet this summer will be another challenge as he decides where to go. "He has an inner self-belief and he's never satisfied," O'Hanlon says. Moyes will have to decide how his ambitions can be realised. "He never had one moment's self-doubt," O'Hanlon adds. This summer, David Moyes will need that certainty.

Thanks to Gerry O'Riordan for spotting this article.

Quotes or other material sourced from The Irish Independent

Reader Comments (75)

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Paul Andrews
2 Posted 07/05/2013 at 17:40:44
Moyes approaching a crossroads................Without a route map
Colin Potter
3 Posted 07/05/2013 at 18:22:15
" He could manage any club in the world and make a success of it "
Have I been asleep for the last 11 years or what? FFS !!!
Patrick Murphy
4 Posted 07/05/2013 at 19:27:21
Take your time Davey we all know what's it like when you have more than one option, it's so difficult to decide! Or of course you could follow the Jelavic road, or maybe not.

Ross Edwards
5 Posted 07/05/2013 at 19:33:28
Methods?!! Well, you learn something new every day. Bizarre subs, caution, KITAP1, playing the favourites, constantly complaining to gain sympathy.
He lost the plot ages ago, scrub that, he never had one.
Brendan McLaughlin
6 Posted 07/05/2013 at 19:37:26
"THOSE WHO KNOW HIM BEST COMPARE HIM TO ALEX FERGUSON"
Just in case anyone missed that bit.....
Ross Edwards
7 Posted 07/05/2013 at 19:45:10
Thanks for poining that out Brendan. How does he compare to Fergie, apart from nationality?
James Carlisle
8 Posted 07/05/2013 at 19:57:17
Most overrated manager in the EPL. If he goes to a 'bigger club', which anyone can tell he does, then he will win exactly what he did with us. Sweet FA.

As the kopites kindly reminded us on Sunday, we haven't won a trophy in 18 years, Moyes has been in charge for 2/3 of that time. It's time to go.

Marc Williams
9 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:00:35
Dithering Dave approahing a crossroads... left, no right,no left, no straight on, no right, no left, no back to the roundabout.........we could be here for some time.
Even then if he's clearly gone wrong, he'll wait at least 70 minutes before changing direction !

Chris Gould
10 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:08:52
Do you guys ever take a step back and consider why everyone else in the entire world rates him so incredibly highly and you don't?
Surely there is no reason for so many people to speak so overwhelmingly positive about him, other than he really is top quality. There is a very good reason that you are in the minority. In my opinion you judge him irrationally. Quite frankly I fear any future Everton manager will fail in your eyes because you expect too much.
Like you, I hope to one day see Everton challenge for honours, but unlike you, I don't believe we have a God given right to be challenging. We have to wait in line with a whole host of other clubs for our very own sugar Daddy and until that day comes it isn't settling for 6th/7th place it's being proud of the over-achievement.
Brendan McLaughlin
11 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:23:08
Ross #957
Well as I know him my natural modesty precludes me from answering that question
Ross Edwards
12 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:30:50
Everyone believes the "no money wonders, one of the best, massive overachieving" propaganda crap provided by the media Chris. They don't like to hear Moyes' many negatives.
Barry Rathbone
13 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:33:35
Chris 975 it's because they're not Evertonians.... they don't watch us !!!

Barry Rathbone
14 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:36:19
Brendan, thought you were Moyes pal .... makes so much sense now.
Brendan McLaughlin
15 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:37:31
Good point Barry #979
ToffeeWeb should have a poll on whether or not Evertonians want Moyes to renew his contract.
Chris Gould
16 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:35:48
Barry, I fully understand your frustration. To the extent that I momentarily considered suggesting that my youngest son started supporting Yeovil town when he first became interested in football (I am originally from the west country). I can tell from your remarks that most of you are clearly articulate and no doubt know your football. I just think that maybe you should consider where we would be now if it wasn't for Moyes. I really can't think of anyone who would be willing to come to the club with proven credentials. By this I mean: have taken a club to the champions league with similar financial restrictions. I for one don't won't to gamble on an unproven manager who may very well send us back to where we were eleven years ago.
Mark Frere
17 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:47:41
Ross Edward's
If its propaganda? Why don't you name us all the successful clubs with a similar budget to ours? its not just the PL either, money determines who is successful in all the top leagues in Europe. Why don't you give us some facts to back up your arguments for once!?
Ross Edwards
18 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:47:10
"ToffeeWeb should have a poll on whether or not Evertonians want Moyes to renew his contract."
We did that after the Wigan game Brendan. Needless to say those who voted no changed their minds after wins against City and Reading. We should have the poll, after the Chelsea match, and then maybe Lyndon and Michael could publish the results.
Barry Rathbone
19 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:45:52
Chris the problem is "where we might be" could equally be cup winners, CL qualifiers, "defenders of the universe" we just don't know.

What I do know is season upon season there is a pattern to Moyes limitations, personally I'd be very happy to try someone else to solve the shit - 7th or not!

Brendan McLaughlin
20 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:51:16
Ross # 987
Did you change your mind?
Barry Rathbone
21 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:51:13
Mark Frere this is where it becomes a nonsense because if you can list me teams providing a Rooney for the incoming manager and 11 years without winning anything I'll answer your question.
Ross Edwards
22 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:49:19
Mark
It is propaganda mate. He is still here, why? Not because of loyalty or anything like that, it is because NOBODY WANTS HIM!
Spuds didn't want him as they thought he was TOO defensive. He hasn't gone yet as no-one wants a bottling, stupid, idiotic moron that has a trophy record of ZILCH.
No matter how much the media hype him up, he will never be good enough for ANY other club. This man will be entirely forgotten in 10 years.
Ross Edwards
23 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:57:18
"Ross # 987
Did you change your mind?"
No.
Nick Entwistle
24 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:59:41
Ross, because you didn't like the result you're wanting another poll?

Don't you think equally influential on the vote was indeed the Wigan game, and though people didn't change their mind - unless they reset their cookies or something - why is it the City and Reading game distorted the 'real' opinion?

You can't tell us that you've a right expressing your opinion on one thread, and dismiss 6000 ToffeeWebber's opinions on another.

Brendan McLaughlin
25 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:58:31
Ross #987
So how come "those who voted no changed their minds after wins" but by your own admission this wasn't true of you?
Ross Edwards
26 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:02:52
"Ross, because you didn't like the result you're wanting another poll?" — No Nick, although I admit I was slightly disappointed.

I just thought that we could have an end of season poll to compare to the Wigan one, just to see if there had been a change of opinion since then.

Barry Rathbone
27 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:05:20
Not sure trumpeting a poll showing nearly a third wanting Moyes to go is anything to crow about.
Ross Edwards
28 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:09:09
Brendan

You can't tell me that from nearly 40/60 in the no camp, then a week later it is 55/45 in the Yes camp, it seems logical and common sense to say that there was a change of mind by some?

Brent Stephens
29 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:10:41
But a majority wanting him to stay is more significant than a minority wanting him to go?
John Ford
30 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:59:18
Ross the poll was over a period of weeks. The majority want him because they recognise his qualities. More than anything they recognise the context within which he does his work.

Moyes is the only manager to consistently put a credible challenge to break the posh boys cartel, to stick a ginger digit through the money ceiling. No fucker comes near him in this regard. Moyes's supporters know his weaknesses but they see the bigger picture. It's a shitty dirty top-heavy reality where teams can have Mata, Walcott, Sturridge, Lampard, Defoe, Rooney, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Silva and Tevez on the bench.

Nick Entwistle
31 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:13:28
I think it was more 30% said no... some were undecided.

But you couldn't change your vote Ross. Once you voted, that was it,

Mark Frere
32 Posted 07/05/2013 at 20:57:38
Barry Rathbone
That is a ridiculous argument. What has one single player called Rooney got to do with anything I said? Do you really think Rooney could of made us successful without having quality players around him? Rooney doesn't strike me as the type of guy who would of been satisfied getting paid 60k a week playing for his boyhood team anyway. Remember Moyes didn't get shit loads of money to spend after Rooney was sold to Man Utd.

My advice to you is, stick to talking the complete bollocks! you talked, when talking about playing Anichebe in CM,that made more sense and thats saying something!

Brendan McLaughlin
33 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:11:25
Barry #002
Only "nearly a third" wanting Moyes to go on a ToffeeWeb poll...bit like the Tories polling remarkably well in Scotland.
Brendan McLaughlin
34 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:17:16
I see old "Magic Martinez" is weaving some tonight...
Brent Stephens
35 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:18:26
Anichebe as CM! tch!
Barry Rathbone
36 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:14:40
John is it credible?

Or does he just do the same 7th/9th thing year on year rising and falling depending on what Spurs and Liverpool are doing.

Is it not possible that his renowned failures outside of that "achievement" could be improved?

Brent Stephens
37 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:20:20
"I see old "Magic Martinez" is weaving some tonight..."

Yes, but look at the thrills. Isn't that what we want?! Well, er...

Chris Leyland
38 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:20:58
But Brendan imagine how much more exciting our last 10 games ill be with Roberto in charge?
Nick Entwistle
39 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:21:12
When was the last time Everton finished 9th? This average thing keeps going down - should be 5th/7th.

One loss next season and it 10th/13th...

Brendan McLaughlin
40 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:19:40
Ross #005
So logic and common sense don't apply to you...
Brent Stephens
41 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:21:37
"Is it not possible that his renowned failures outside of that "achievement" could be improved?"

All things are possible. But probable? Unlikely that DM can do better. And unlikely we could attract a class of manager who could do better season in and season out with the same resources.

Chris Leyland
42 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:22:16
Barry - "The old 7th/9th thing" aren't we 6th and haven't we actually finished top 6 on 4 occasions under Moyes on top of this season? We have finished 7th 3 times and 8th once but never 9th.
Ross Edwards
43 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:28:20
"Ross #005
So logic and common sense don't apply to you"
Yes
Barry Rathbone
44 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:21:15
Mark Frere just because you couldn't provide an answer doesn't make it ridiculous - comparisons must be like for like otherwise they're pointless.

If I say Fergie and Wenger are Moyes only peers based solely on tenure and conclude he isn't fit to clean their boots without considering other factors is that fair?

Have some water.

Martin Handley
45 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:31:03
Wigan are now losing guys so magic Martinez will be peddling his trade in the championship by the look of things.
Brent Stephens
46 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:33:42
Or we'll have to put up with his Dour, Predictable play, Martin.
Barry Rathbone
47 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:38:03
Chris, splitting hairs on the 6th gubbins it's trophyless, meaningless "challenging for europe" mediocrity used as the great totem for the cult to gather around.

Fingers in ears shouting "lalalalalala... can't hear you" at mention of the old sky4, the cups and opportunities like CL this year.

As I said previously - Moyes FC.

People praying for Wigan's demise - hilarious.

Brent Stephens
48 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:39:54
Who on here is praying for Wigan's demise?! I and probably most of us on here want them to stay up. But he probably aint good enough to do it.
Barry Rathbone
49 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:42:01
yes Brent ... very convincing
Brent Stephens
50 Posted 07/05/2013 at 21:43:13
Thank you, Barry.
Carl Sanderson
51 Posted 07/05/2013 at 22:10:13
Chris 975:

Apart from Andy van der Meyde I can't recall anyone within football having a bad word to say about Moyes. He is rated by everybody in the game. I agree with you that some of the debate around Moyes's record lacks balance but, hey, ir's all opinions.

Carl Sanderson
52 Posted 07/05/2013 at 22:18:34
Barry:

Personally I would like to see Wigan survive; I wouldn't wish relegation on any side (except one, of course). But I have a question for you: if Wigan are relegated will you want Martinez at Goodison next season?

Barry Rathbone
53 Posted 07/05/2013 at 22:25:52
Carl, I really rate Martinez I'd have him before Moyes every day of the week.
Brent Stephens
54 Posted 07/05/2013 at 22:27:58
I really rate Martinez I'd have him before Moyes every day of the week.

Barry, he's facing relegation - that's a long-winded way of saying zero in the league.

Patrick Murphy
55 Posted 07/05/2013 at 22:28:33
The conjecture that SAF may be calling it a day continues according to the Telegraph at 10:00pm tonight, but it doesn't necessarily mean that DM is going to take over.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10042798/Sir-Alex-Ferguson-considering-retiring-as-Manchester-United-manager-before-end-of-the-week.html

Brent Stephens
56 Posted 07/05/2013 at 22:29:51
"I really rate...." should have been in quotes! Not my view!
Barry Rathbone
57 Posted 07/05/2013 at 22:29:59
Brent but I wasn't saying that!

C'mon lad get up to speed.

Brent Stephens
58 Posted 07/05/2013 at 22:33:24
What weren't you saying, Barry??
Mark Frere
59 Posted 07/05/2013 at 22:28:36
Barry Rathbone 094
I take it you'd have Paul Jewell and Steve Bruce before Moyes? They both had higher league finishing positions then Martinez ever had with Wigan
Carl Sanderson
60 Posted 07/05/2013 at 22:32:58
Barry:

I respect your opinion but I disagree with it to the middle of my bones.

It appears that a change may be imminent, anyway, if the rumours regarding Alex Ferguson are to be believed.

Brent Stephens
61 Posted 07/05/2013 at 22:35:12
Mark, that's naughty! Fancy giving somebody the option of those two!
James McGlone
62 Posted 07/05/2013 at 22:58:51
Serious question.

Seeing that our wage bill is generally around 10th to 12th highest in the league, and our spending is generally less than 3/4 of the rest of the league. Can anyone tell me how many managers have continuously finished higher than us with less or comparable resources?

Patrick Murphy
63 Posted 07/05/2013 at 23:21:42
Didn't Howard Kendall arrive at Goodison on Cup Final eve 1981 and Man City played Spurs that year, will lightening strike twice?
Noel Early
64 Posted 07/05/2013 at 23:16:37
I will say this about Moyes: he has the press eating out of his hand. Imagine if he actually won a trophy — what would the perception of him be then? I'd say somewhere between Fergie and Stein myself.

Such a load of nonsense being written about this man in recent days...

Aodhan O'Faolain
65 Posted 07/05/2013 at 23:38:39
Article written by a bitter LFC head and a t w at to boot. When Everton qualified for Champions League he wrote that at tleast there was a team in the champs league on a par with the then League of Ireland champions Shelbourne. Frankly I pay no attention to anything produced by this guy.
Christopher Roberts
66 Posted 08/05/2013 at 01:30:10
I don't care what anyone says, we will all be sorry when he is gone!!
Steve Carter
67 Posted 08/05/2013 at 04:23:52
Well look what everyone's favourite rag is saying: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4918721/Alex-Ferguson-in-quit-frenzy-as-bookies-cut-odds-on-Man-Utd-exit.html
Paul Andrews
68 Posted 08/05/2013 at 15:17:00
Jose will be the next Utd manager if Ferguson retires this season.
Phil Roberts
69 Posted 08/05/2013 at 08:02:27
Moyes is a sensible guy. Taking the United job would be stupid.

Imagine if in the next two years he does not win the title, he is sacked. end of.

You need one or two failures at United between SAF and taking the job. Then you are compared to the failures and not SAF.

Carl Sanderson
71 Posted 08/05/2013 at 10:46:42
Phil 195:

I think that's an astute and sane position to take. If Moyes went there he would be a hostage to fortune, really; I just can't see it happening. If it does, however, then some people on here are going to look like total idiots.

Charles Brewer
72 Posted 08/05/2013 at 11:36:39
I can't see anyone but Moyes going to ManU. Given the salary he's been on for a few years and the likelihood of getting significantly more at Old Trafford, he will not need to worry even if he does fail. He will get 2-3 years and short of actually getting relegated, I don't see why the ManU owners would not tolerate a drop from winning the Premiership for a couple of years.

He is also 11/10 on joint favourite with Mourinho (who would be entirely out of place)

i reckon Moyes will sign by the end of next week.

Jim Potter
73 Posted 08/05/2013 at 12:41:39
Don't go Davie!

If only for my sake.

Cough up some cash for him to spend Kenwright!

In Moyes I trust.

Ross Edwards
74 Posted 08/05/2013 at 13:04:47
Look, Mourinho is going to Man U. Dm isn't even good enough to manage us so God help him at Manure.
James Lauwervine
76 Posted 08/05/2013 at 13:03:30
We've become so used to comfortably finishing top 8 that everyone seems to have forgotten what things were like before that. It's certainly taken for granted. The evidence is compelling in the last 20 years' league positions - http://www.toffeeWeb.com/history/records/league-record.asp
When Moyes goes we'll be back in the shit again and those calling for him to go and criticising and abusing him to a shocking level on this site will be made to look like knobheads.
I'm not his biggest fan, despite what you might think, but it is abundantly clear that he has improved our standing. I can remember the season review video of 2002-3 that was called 'The Magnificent Seventh'. Yes it was embarassing, but the point is 7th really was magnificent for us back then. Now finishing 6th seems to be viewed as failure becasue we're Everton and NSNO and all that crap. Wake up FFS, we're skint and we're 6th - DON'T YOU GET IT!!!???
Carl Sanderson
77 Posted 08/05/2013 at 14:25:12
James:

You are completely correct. It appears that Moyes will imminently become United's manager. But wait! - no, it's Mourinho. It must be true: Ross Edwards, the fount of all wisdom and knowledge, says so.

Aidan Wade
78 Posted 08/05/2013 at 14:12:45
I don't know what will happen in the summer but if Moyes decides he is not getting the support he needs and leaves, the jubilant Moyes bashers will get a very nasty surprise next season when it turns out Moyes was holding us up at 6th and not down at 6th.

If a few million quid more was found at the right time, if the rub of the green had been different (I hope there's space for an 8th circle in Dante's hell for Signor Collina) then there might have been more glory to show for DMs tenure, c'est la vie.

Whatever happens, and despite the mistakes he has made (Anybody got the hypocritical first stone ready?) Moyes has done a fantastic job at Everton. Thanks Dave.

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