Ratcliffe criticises Kenwright over Moyes's free passage

, 20 May, 113comments  |  Jump to most recent
Former Everton defender Kevin Ratcliffe feels that the Club were too lax in allowing David Moyes's contract to run down, thereby allowing the Scot to leave Goodison without Manchester United having to pay compensation for his services.

“Everyone has been talking about David Moyes leaving for Manchester United," the Blues legend said, "but it has left a big hole and that is going to be a harder job to fill.

“Unfortunately we've got a person who was an asset to the football club leaving for nothing and the club have really not been proactive. They should have really nailed him down and got him to sign a contract so we could receive a fee for him."

Ratcliffe blamed Kenwright for a lack of control of the situation: “Moyes seemed to be pulling the strings and not Bill Kenwright. I feel that Bill has been a bit lax in this. He should have acted a bit sooner.

"They should have really nailed him down and got him to sign a contract so we could receive a fee for him.

“It's been done and dusted for a while. Not a week. You don't sign a six-year contract in two days. I think it was on the cards for maybe a month or two. Sir Alex Ferguson said he made his mind up at Christmas so he would have been putting things into plan then.” Ratcliffe also feels that because the club received no money for Moyes they may have to promote a coach from within like Alan Stubbs or Duncan Ferguson. He added: “It's quite known that we've not really got too much money. So, do we want to go out and pay for a manager?

“I just feel Everton have been left a little bit rooted so they might go in house.”

Quotes or other material sourced from TalkSPORT



Reader Comments (113)

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Chris Regan
1 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:01:27
I can't believe anyone would be surprised that the club sat on their hands doing nowt. Look at the club off the pitch, it has withered on the vine for decades.

We got lucky with Moyes, as he could defy the trend of decline on the pitch, but was powerless to do anything off the pitch. Assets stripped, no corporate plan for the future except waiting for a billionaire to buy us. No surprises we are struggling to replace him.

Did the Moyes out brigade put any thought into who was going to replace him and the consequences of him leaving? I doubt it.

Colin Potter
2 Posted 20/05/2013 at 13:59:27
Well said Kevin. It's about time someone that's close to the club let it be known how thick and how completely untrustworthy Kenwright the clown really is.
Phil McKeown
3 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:04:09
Just like Neville southall two weeks ago — proper legends with no ties to the club giving an honest assessment, unlike Sharpey the puppet keeping everyone sweet to progress his media career.
Jackie Barry
5 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:04:26
About time, it's a pity that only him and Southall have the balls out of all our ex-players. Still I have read of some fans having a go at Ratcliffe for saying something about BK, it comes to something when fans would rather stick up for our slimey chairman over somebody who has lived and breathed Everton.
Ciarán McGlone
6 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:17:03
"Did the Moyes Out brigade put any thought into who was going to replace him and the consequences of him leaving? I doubt it."
-----

What a ridiculous thing to append to that post. Bill Kenwright is the one at fault here.

Having a preference for a new manager, in no way makes one liable for the failure by the club to deal with that situation whenever it arises.

We now have a situation where the club could kick on... any failure to do that will not, I REPEAT, WILL NOT be the fault of those supporters who felt David Moyes had 'run his course'...

Nicholas Battistino
7 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:20:09
How comes no one is mentioning Andy Gray, if I remember correctly, he was a favourite before Moyes but signed a new deal with Sky at the time.

I don’t know if it would be the right decision but could it be the person close to Everton I keep reading and hearing about as now he is a TalkSport host and commentator?

Chris Regan
8 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:15:28
Jackie, In third place after me and Colin, few ex-blue players rarely seem to take an interest in what goes on off the pitch. Even Sharpy when he is on the Radio City phone- ins and Ian Snodin seem to have little idea when people talk about the business side of the club.

On the occasions when callers talk about the clubs finances and commercial activities their (Sharpy & Snods) ignorance of the facts becomes startlingly clear. There is enough info on this site (which maintains a neutrality) to form your own negative opinion on the board. Yet these people closer to the club say nothing. I understand Sharpy is an Everton employee but I don't think Snods is.

Kevin Tully
11 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:20:52
As we speak, Moyes is at Utd's training ground, now imagine Levy letting this go on if AVB was at Arsenal, and coming back and forth to Spurs.

It's nothing to do what anyone thinks of Moyes or Kenwright, it's just not right!!

Mark Eaton
12 Posted 20/05/2013 at 13:56:49
Here is a theory Evertonians.

Fergie recently admitted in an article that he knew he was going to retire at Xmas. It was very hard to believe that one night a couple of weeks ago that he suddenly decided to retire. He's a dedicated man and would never have wanted to leave Man Utd in a potentially difficult situation of suddenly looking for a new manager.

Link: http://arabia.msn.com/sports/football/leagues/english-premier-league-news/1846580/sir-alex-decided-retire-christmas/

The retirement was kept very tight to avoid the circus surrounding the last announcement of his retirement.

So I reckon Moyes was tapped up months ago. This backs up the amazing speed to which he was appointed. He may have then informed BK that he WAS going to leave at the end of the season, so allowing Everton time to consider a new man. Again Moyes is dedicated and would not have wanted to leave us in a tight spot. BK looked shocked and emotional at the official announcement, however reality was biting and don't forget that he was an actor.

So was Moyes also tapped up at about Xmas? I have seen a report alleging Vitor Pereira was a guest at Goodison at Xmas - he, as we know has also not signed a new contract.

Link http://m.goal.com/s/en-gb/news/3887719

I am seriously hoping this theory works out as firstly I do strongly think Pereira would be the man to take us forward, secondly that the above may be near the truth and thirdly I have just been down Ladbrokes and taken 25-1 on Vitor!

Mike Rourke
13 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:20:14
Some criticism is better than none I suppose.

More worryingly is all our former players talking up other former players for the managers job, Unsworth was on the radio this morning doing the same, kinda like a blue old boys club - nudge-nudge, wink-wink.

Will all former blues kindly shut up and fuck off until this managerial situation is played out UNLESS you are going to break the mould and say 'all my former colleagues are top lads but I wouldn't trust 'em to manage their way out of a paper bags.

Kev Johnson
14 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:25:24
Well said, Kevin.

Actually, you quite often find that people called Kevin (or variations thereof) are blessed with remarkably good judgement.

John Jones
15 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:24:08
Kev has hit the Nail on the head. Kenwright is a tool big time. Moyes has played him like a 5$ hooker.

It makes you wonder what the boardroom was thinking... I bet they are hoping we get relegated next season they can sell up for a profit (Parachute Payment and most of the squad leaving would wipe the debt).

Kenwright and cronies would make a quick buck out of the club and the fans left picking up the pieces... I have we seen this before somewhere...

When the shit hits the fan next season Kenwright has his script ready "Moyes leaving so sudden really hit Everton Hard and we didn't have time to plan to get the next manager, also selling Baines, Fellaini and Jags 15 minutes before the transfer window shut left us no time to replace them."

Like a script of a soap. Watch this space!

Chris Regan
16 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:33:21
Mark Eaton, #228, do you think the club has a plan? Think about it.
Michael Evans
17 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:28:02
"I just feel that Everton have been left a little bit rooted..."

More like pot-bound with shrivelled up leaves and no sign of growth!

Strange really — you would have thought that all the bullshit that the Everton hierarchy produce that we would be growing like a triffid.

Kevin Day
18 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:33:44
Here here Kevin and Kevin
Tony J Williams
19 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:41:07
"Did the Moyes out brigade put anythought into who was going to replace him and the consequences of him leaving? I doubt it" - The fucks it got to do with them?

Maybe Gijelka will help us out

Liam Young
20 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:44:03
Our big concern right now is "Who?", and the names being mentioned are simply not good enough, I keep saying this, but Martinez is not good enough, his team got relegated after years of struggling!.

The only manager available this summer without a compensation fee that makes sense is Vitor Pereira, I have read about this guy, and he is an amazing candidate. We should be offering him the job.

Let's hope so, and if the odds are 25-1 at Ladbrokes, I know what I am doing later!

Nick Entwistle
21 Posted 20/05/2013 at 14:52:21
If Bill wanted to tie him down and commit to Everton all he had to do was supply some funds.

He did not. And why would Moyes sign a contract just so Everton could receive some compensation? That's some twisted thinking.

We're stuck with Everton, Moyes isn't... sorry, wasn't.

Roman Sidey
22 Posted 20/05/2013 at 15:02:42
Liam, Rafa is available for free.
Jackie Barry
23 Posted 20/05/2013 at 15:14:32
And so are our backroom staff with the added incentive of much lower wages!
Ben Jones
24 Posted 20/05/2013 at 15:18:03
He certainly has a point about letting Moyes go for free.

But does that really restrict our choice for a manager? I don't think any new manager is going to cost an unbelievable amount. I mean, is Martinez really going to cost that much if we want him?

Ross Edwards
25 Posted 20/05/2013 at 15:36:14
Bielsa and Rijkaard are also free as well.
Phil Martin
27 Posted 20/05/2013 at 15:26:32
1) It's good to see a former player standing up to Kenwright and refusing to toe the party line.

2) I suspect the answer to Rat's points are clear. Moyes informed BK around Dec/Jan last year that he couldn't sign a new deal until there's proof of funds to spend – that would allow us to challenge top 4. The proof never arrived (though I have no doubt there was a lot of fluster from BK). DM never re-signed and subsequently got an offer elsewhere.

DM under a 4- or 5-year contract would've cost United £15M to buy him out. I believe they would've paid it as they identified him as the right man for the long term.

Jackie Barry
28 Posted 20/05/2013 at 15:42:24
You think they would have paid £15 million for Moyes? I'm not so sure about that, from what I have heard he wasn't even their first choice.
John Keating
29 Posted 20/05/2013 at 15:46:56
I mentioned this when Moyes was announced new Man Utd manager. From the beginning of the season, Moyes should have been nailed to a new contract and if Man Utd think he's Gods Gift they would have coughed up anything! The whole scenario is a disgrace.

Today is the day Man Utd should have made a formal approach to the Club for permission to speak to Moyes. Kenwright and Moyes deserve each other. Moyes made enough of a do about players running their contracts down and informal approaches etc. Pity he didn't do what he preached!

John Gee
30 Posted 20/05/2013 at 15:48:24
Apparently, Ancelotti has asked to leave PSG but that has been refused. How funny would it be if the rumour of Fergie offering the job to Ancelotti was true and then he suddenly becomes available just before DM takes the job during the 'cooling off period' allowable by law.

As for Kevin Ratcliffe, He didn't go far enough for me. still, it's good to hear people who have a genuine affinity for the club speak up. There's too many people involved with us who have no vision because they just don't give a shit as long as they can pick up their wages at the end of the month.

Why have we employed a RS fan to communicate with the fans???? Is there not an Evertonian in the country who could do that job? Un-fucking-believable, the whole sorry mess.

Kevin Jones
31 Posted 20/05/2013 at 15:59:34
Here here here Kevin, Kevan and Kevin. I can only reiterate what Kevan said about Kevin, that "most people called Kevin ( or variations thereof ) are blessed with remarkably good judgement" and the name Kevin / Kevan.

David Israel
32 Posted 20/05/2013 at 16:23:28
Hey, lads! Apparently Dougie Freedman is now at 5-1! I watched Palace playing under him early in the season, and I quite liked their style of play. A Scot, no doubt, but not a "dour" one! ;-)
Ross Edwards
33 Posted 20/05/2013 at 16:27:21
Well, David, I watched a few Palace matches when he was in charge and he was more hoofish than you are suggesting. He's also quite dour as well.
David Israel
34 Posted 20/05/2013 at 16:29:59
Well, Ross, maybe my eye was especially caught by the wonderful skills of Wilfred Zaha. But they did play the ball about with some sense in that game, they weren't hoofish at all.

As for "dour", well, may be it is a national characteristic north of the Border (that adjective always brings Walter Smith to mind - dourest of the dour! ;-)

Ross Edwards
35 Posted 20/05/2013 at 16:33:31
I feel sorry for Zaha. He has gone to Man U at precisely the wrong time. Mr Moyes probably hasn't heard of him and certainly won't use him. Sad as he would have been a brilliant potential signing for us.
Phil Martin
36 Posted 20/05/2013 at 16:30:10
@277 of course Man U would.
They actually practice what our club motto preaches. If they think an indiviudal whether that be player, manager or otherwise is the right person. They pay whatever it takes to get them.

Hence £29M on Van Perise the injury prone 29 year old with less than a year on his contract.

£10-15M on the most important person at the club as a long term investment is peanuts (for them).

David Israel
38 Posted 20/05/2013 at 16:40:38
Ross, Man. Utd. reportedly paid £10 M for Zaha, with a few add-ons. No chance we could ever have got him. If he hadn't signed for United, he would have gone to Arsenal, Chesea or Spurs. But I get your point regarding the timing of the transfer.
Charles Brewer
39 Posted 20/05/2013 at 16:35:25
I have been of the view that Moyes would replace Ferguson for about 7 or 8 years. As soon as it was clear that he was capable of managing at Premiership level, I reckon his card was marked at Old Trafford. Surely the most obvious thing in the world was that the owners would want as near to continuity as they could possibly manage.

The difference in ages was just about perfect, the financial situation at the two clubs meant that any ambitious manager would be willing to move down the M62 as soon as the opportunity arose.

Finally, both managers ran teams with a strong but not exclusive British presence (unlike Arsenal, Chelsea or the RS, but then I am not even sure of the species of many of the players in the last, Skrtl is half Orc isn't he? and they also have a naked mole rat up front) with a

That Moyes contract ran out just after Ferguson resigned was probably not actually planned, but can hardly have counted against the move.

Frankly the whole thing was the least surprising thing in football I have ever seen.

Matt Traynor
41 Posted 20/05/2013 at 17:06:16
I think Kevin has done well to speak out, given that he still has an occasional role at the club on matchdays, hosting in lounges etc when he's not doing media work. In the absence of anything from the Red Echo, we need people like Rats and Nev to speak out, and hopefully get the coverage. So sick of the media love-in with BK.

Mark Eaton #228 - interesting detective work there fella! Hope there's something in it, even if it does prove what many of us believe - that Moyes leaving was a done deal months ago.

Danny Broderick
43 Posted 20/05/2013 at 17:55:55
You shouldn't let your assets run down their contracts. Regardless of whether United were interested since Christmas or not, we should have been looking to extend Moyes contract 18 months ago if we wanted to keep him. The flip side being, if he leaves, we would get compensation.
Weak management from the top left Moyes calling the shots in the last 6 months of his contract. And we have been left with nothing. Another example of mismanagement - this inept board failing to protect our interests. I can't blame Moyes for going - he's paid his dues these last 11 years. But the board and financial acumen don't seem to go together.
Phil Sammon
44 Posted 20/05/2013 at 18:13:03
Just been watching the live Wigan celebrations for the FA Cup. Martinez was invited to say a few words on the mic. It was mentioned a couple of times about him staying on next year and it was some of the most uncomfortable telly I've watched in a white (and I watch Pointless). There is absolutely no chance of Martinez being there next season. I don't want him at Everton, for the record...but out of him or an internal appointment, I think its got to be the Spaniard.
Lewis Morrison
45 Posted 20/05/2013 at 18:19:28
Mark #228 I really hope so, I really do!

The only realistic stand out candidate for me and he's free!

Would prove for once that the club are trying to move forward and not stand still which would only end up in us going backwards!

Good to hear someone (Ratcliffe) speaking out against the boards failings, just wish a few more would do the same!

Eddy Bernard
46 Posted 20/05/2013 at 18:59:47
Dont buy all this no money for a new manager stuff so we have to promote from within argument

>Moyes was one of the hightest paid managers in Europe, so we should be able to offer whatever he was on or whatever new contract deal he was going to be offered to try and secure the best manager available.

Bradley Smith
47 Posted 20/05/2013 at 19:34:57
Everton Football Club is far bigger than David Moyes, Kenwright has handled this perfectly for Moyes but not for Everton. I have always admired the job he has done for us, punching above our weight season after season, the man was always destined for the top... But surely Kenwright's job was to make it a bit easier for Everton when the time came; he failed again... so how are we meant to trust the man?

I personally think his heart is in right place but he doesn't have the stern solid front that an owner needs to push a club forward; too emotional for his own good. This should be about Everton but it feels more about David Moyes thanks to Kenwright and his boys. Strap yourself in for the ride!

John Gee
50 Posted 20/05/2013 at 20:14:44
One of the many things that's sticking in my throat right now (it's a wonder I can breathe at all) is football in this country has never been wealthier. Money is getting thrown around hither and tither (waited my whole life to say those 2 words) and we are playing in a dilapidated stadium with no funds to rebuild. Something is seriously amiss.

Ian Bennett
51 Posted 20/05/2013 at 20:13:37
What exactly could of been done differently? Moyes was wearing the trousers, and Bill had no bluff to play. He could have said sign or I will sack you, and Moyes would have called him. We have no money, what were we going to pay the compensation with?
Ian Hollingworth
52 Posted 20/05/2013 at 20:27:20
At last a true blue legend saying it how it is.

Suppose that will be the last of Rats hosting match days in the exec lounges.

Dennis Stevens
53 Posted 20/05/2013 at 20:28:56
Moyes leaving for free certainly has cost the club, when one considers Spurs paid Pompey £8 million for Redknapp a few years ago - what would Moyes be worth in comparison?

Ian , I suppose all they could do is set a deadline for Moyes to sign any new contract & if that passed withdraw the offer & start planning for the post-Moyes era. This would only exert pressure on Moyes if he wasn't planning on leaving anyway, of course.

Toby Smith
55 Posted 20/05/2013 at 20:47:21
Good on you Kev. At last a blue close to the club has voiced his opinion on the disgraceful situation. Moyes KNEW the craic. He has shafted us and if we want a Laudrup or Martinez, we will have to pay. Man U didn't pay a penny and he is there today meeting his new staff whilst taking £80k a week from us. Staying over at Bill's tonight after being with Sir Alex at the LMA do. No doubt recommending Gary Megson!
John Gee
56 Posted 20/05/2013 at 20:56:28
Where is the Blue Union? Isn't this exactly why it exists? For all their sins, the RS fans groups would have been marching in the street over this.
Ross Edwards
57 Posted 20/05/2013 at 21:06:42
The Blue Union wouldn't be marching over the golden son Moyes. Why would they bother? All their arguements were based around what "Moyesy" could do with any money if we forced BK out.
Brin Williams
58 Posted 20/05/2013 at 21:11:36
Mark Eaton,
Gees I hope you're right!!
Andy Walker
59 Posted 20/05/2013 at 21:38:16
451 - spot on Ian, a voice of reality. We must not project our fears of the unknown on to someone who no longer matters to our club. The guy would have been on hols now anyway and you can not force someone to sign a new contract if they don't want to.
Moyes leaving was always going to create a massive financial risk to our club. The reality is now dawning.
Being forced to appoint a new manager creates an opportunity, but I expect it to have a negative effect on the team's performance next season. If that happens BK will no doubt get even more stick from some fans, even though he didnt sack Moyes, like some fans wanted. Kenwright probably knows he's between a rock and a hard place and I expect he like me, thinks we are now in deep sh*t. I hope I'm wrong, but fear I'm not.
The only thing that would change my opinion is if by some miracle, we appointed Rafa, but I can't see that when we have no money. However, just maybe they could raise money from the financiers if they could present Rafa as the manager to spend it. He's the only one I would be happy to invest in.
Paul David
60 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:00:35
Andy

There is something BK could have done, he could pulled DM into his office and say something like

" Dave, theres only a year to run on your contract and I need to know where the club stands. You've never let a player you wanted to keep to run his contract down and I don't see why you should be any different. If you haven't signed a new deal by the end of August the offer will be withdrawn for good and we'll be looking for a new manager to be in place by the end of the season. ".

If, as you say Moyes would have called his bluff then we're still in the same situation but least we wouldn't look like mugs.

Frida Ericsson
61 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:12:59

Chris Regan - you ask did any of the Moyes out brigade think who could have replaced him?

Incredible silly question, when everyone including the dog has put names forward, even well before Moyes left.

It isn't the fans who are reponsible for hiring coaches / managers, it's down to the board and ultimately it rests at the chairman's door. It is he, you must ask this question to, you can't go around blaming the Moyes out brigade for something Moyes had chosen to do for a long time.

Frida Ericsson
62 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:17:43
Paul David - more to the point, why when Moyes re-negotiated his 4 million a year deal, did kenwright not stipulate 5 or 6 years at the time of the last contract?

It did not mean we where screwed with him for that length of time, because it had become apparent for a good 5 or so years that fergie was due to retire, almost every year the world papers had him retiring. You sign someone for whatever eventuality might come, you try to sign high quality players on lengthy contracts, so if you do sell them, you will be compensated for the length of the remaining on contract and whatever else you decided at the time of the player' initial contract.

If Moyes who had been dithering over his last contract would have said no, then it wouldn't have been so different to now..except we would have got shut of him earlier.

It is much harder to re-sign a new contract, than it is to sign a long term contract..short term contracts can be very expensive, look at how much Moyes took out of the club...12 million in 3 odd years, which would have brought in another player..and he was moaning about the cost of players..double standards from him?

He is gone, nothing more we can do about it really..but the more noise these butt lickers of kenwright make, the more stupid will appear...shame ratcliffe and co did not have the common decency to expose this board to the media.

Gavin Wadeson
63 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:22:38
Moyes leaving is not going to have a massive financial impact on Everton. We've got the tenth highest wage bill in the league. So, if we stop 'punching above our weight' next season, and we finish tenth (instead of 6th) we'll receive £3m less in prize money. I don't know what wage Moyes would've demanded before signing a new contract, but it's definitely within the realms of reality to suggest that Kenwright will pay the next manager £3m less than what he was planning to pay Moyes. So, even if we finish mid-table, it won't lead to the vicious circle some are predicting.
Frida Ericsson
64 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:30:32
John Gee - you suggest that the blue union should be all over this.

The Blue Union was aimed at getting kenwrong and co out of office, it's these numpties you need vent your hate at.

Moyes has gone and we are going into a new era. granted most new everton's haven't got a clue what it was like under previous managers, this football club is bigger than any manager. ...just unfortunately all the happy faces who clap these clowns should be dragged through the streets along with the board!

Drew Shortis
65 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:23:08
I'm sure Moyes had, at the very least, an inkling that the Man Utd job may be his but it is natural he couldn't say anything in public until he was either offered it officially. If he thought there was a good chance he was going to get the job it would have been cruel to lead the fans on by signing a new deal and then jumping ship. I think it would have been wrong to sign a new contract unless he meant to stay, regardless of any compensation. I wouldn't be surprised if BK was aware of the situation too, but also felt compelled to keep it under wraps until it was made official. Its possible he was hoping it would fall through and DM would sign a new deal with us. I really don't understand the need for all the bitterness and recriminations!

If BK has been aware of the likely exit of DM for a while now I hope and expect he has been working hard to line up a suitable replacement. Am I naive about the boardroom shenanigans? Possibly, but I have faith in Everton as a club and I think we can continue to progress with a new manager. Fingers crossed!

Frida Ericsson
66 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:35:57
Gavin - you are the voice of reason and reality. Some people make up facts to suit their own phobias I am sure of it. We could ill afford Moyes' current 4m a year let alone him demanding more under a new contract, which any sensible person would.

I think we'll be fine, might even win some silverware, but honestly I am not afraid of the future, we've been here before, not as if we have a relegation team, and not as if Moyes tactics where that brilliant in the first place.

We will be okay :)

Jackie Barry
67 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:35:42
Oh how the mighty have fallen, if I hear that punching above our weight one more time I think I'll cry! This club has been destroyed by a wolf in sheeps clothing, a man who will put nothing in yet want's such a handsome reward if we are ever sold, somebody who claims he has the clubs best interests at heart but is all about himself when he puts on a show in front of the cameras.
Frida Ericsson
68 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:39:38
anyway, we shouldn't be looking at anyone other than Di Matteo, class manager. available and we'd have to be insane not to approach him about the job
Frida Ericsson
69 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:40:32
Jackie, I wish there where more people like you and me around, to try and get this entire cancerous board out of power, but people sit there apathetic to what's going on there and are too concerned by some one who has gone.

Until they are removed, how are we ever to move forward and actually sell the club or challenge for the title again?

Still at some point these people cannot stay in power forever.

Jackie Barry
70 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:43:18
I will say it now but what BK has done to this club is in many ways worse than Johnson. Scoff at it but if you look the surface we are like a rotting corpse, our prior great owner would be turning in his grave if he knew what we had become.
Jackie Barry
71 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:48:01
Should say below the surface
John Gee
72 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:37:10
Frida, I thought the BU was an umbrella organisation started to represent an element of Everton supporters who are dissatisfied with various issues.

Their silence is deafening. I'm so willing to support them but it has always seemed to me that they're in for themselves. It hurts me right to my unmentionables to say this but 'the spirit of shankly' would be vocal and demonstrative enough to get in the national press if they were experiencing the same thing as us right now.

I just can't believe we're allowing ourselves to be trodden down like this. How can we expect players to be competitive next season when, right from the top on down, we've allowed ourselves to be 'put in our place'.

Pride at Everton appears to be in short supply at the moment and this is all because the people who have been trusted the most have turned out to be egomaniacal dickheads.

Can one of our Chinese fans get a shovel? because Dixie has spun so much in his grave that he will need to be reburied on this side of the planet.

Michael Winstanley
73 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:16:23
Mark Eaton, I've thought the same only I had Martinez as the shoe in, my only concern was Wigan getting relegated and he might feel he owed them but Phil has just put that to bed. I'd be happy with either of them but I'd prefer Hiddink..
Phil Roberts
74 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:54:51
Gavin #523

We won't finish 10th, we will sign Martinez and play wonderful football and be in the Champions League. He is a better manager than Moyes and plays better football but is Spanish not Scottish and that is why United wanted Moyes not Martinez.

Ian Bennett
75 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:38:34
Dennis - you can set as many deadlines as you want. Moyes was in the box position and Bill wasn't. Kenright could of dumped the ginger one like some teenager, but the outcome would of cost him £3m, darkened the name of Everton, and ended with the same problem. Check mate. I appreciate Ratters speaking out, and he is right, but clearly the relationship was stacked in Moyes favour, which meant ugly Everton were going to get done over at some point.

The only way we could of maximised the position was if Spurs would have hired him last year. The board could have planned who would replace him, but surely the board should have discussed this privately anyway. What the hell do they discuss..... I suspect the conversation then, would be as of now, there are no outstanding candidates, just pith.

Jackie Barry
76 Posted 20/05/2013 at 22:56:59
John the BU and people like them face such a difficult task in showing the fall from grace this great club is going through. My worry is the newer generation, as I hear them talk it seems they accept the current status, even seeming happy at times. As the next young group of Everton fans come along this will become even more so, a real worry for me. I want Everton fans to stand for the motto of their club, it really does mean something, something that they are trying to get rid of as well! This club has fallen behind the times, but she isn't lost and the people who need to stand up and make their voices heard are us the fans, we are this club, without us there is no club!
Pat Waine
77 Posted 20/05/2013 at 23:01:36
Moyes should not have been allowed to run down his contract, "Sign or the club will act" should have been the position adopted by the club. I think Moyes would have signed even a short contract.

We can still find a manager who can take us forward. Moyes was well paid. We can get a manager who can actually make changes when the game is going away from us. We can get a manager that will have the team try get number two instead of getting 10 behind the ball when we are one-up.

Ste Traverse
78 Posted 20/05/2013 at 23:21:05
Jackie Barry #534.

I too have the view that Kenwright is far worse than Johnson ever was. And by a million miles too.

Had BK been a former red like Johnson, or just a businessman with no real allegiance to the club, he'd have been chased out years ago but he's cynically used his Blue credentials to gain support.

Paul Ferry
79 Posted 20/05/2013 at 23:34:45
Chris Regan (216) Did the Moyes out brigade put any thought into who was going to replace him and the consequences of him leaving? I doubt it.

This is rock-bottom, as bad it gets, poverty, poverty, poverty. Is it really worth responding to this level of misconceived haughty bollocks? Can't help it, it's so mind-numbingly arid and sterile and vacuous.

Okay.

(1) it is my recollection that post-after-post suggesting that we might be better off without Moyes in the driving seat.

(2) It was precisely because so many posters came up with so many alternatives that we had an at times quite heated exchange of words about one pick after another

(3) So, yes, elementary mistake #1 - a lot of people did put a fair amount of 'thought into who was going to replace him'

(4) elementary mistake #2: the so-called MOB (yawn Mr. Regan, yawn, eye rolls) put no thought into 'The consequences of his leaving'. 100 per cent wrong. People asking for Moyes to exit did so in the belief they strongly held that this would be a change for the better. Now Mr. Regan, 'change for the better' is a 'consequence', not the one that you might have selected from your 'be careful what you wish for' status-quo sterility, but a 'consequence' nonetheless. Time will tell about the rights and wrongs of the tapestry of positions we have had on these boards for so long now.

So, conclusion, your remarks are to put it mildly up there with Teary Billy bollocks.

Let's press refresh shall we?

'In fact the Moyes out brigade [yawn, shakes head with a sort of deprecating smile, yawn] did put a lot of thought into who was going to replace him and they also talked at lenght of the consequences of him leaving'

Okay?

Paul Ferry
80 Posted 20/05/2013 at 23:49:46
Chris Regan and others I apologize

Point (1) should have read

(1) it is my recollection that post-after-post suggesting that we might be better off without Moyes in the driving seat did come up with alternative suggestions to fill his shoes.

Ian Linn
81 Posted 21/05/2013 at 00:04:26
Jackie #542

"the BU and people like them face such a difficult task in showing the fall from grace this great club is going through"

Please explain to me the fall from grace, when did it start and from where did we fall?

John Gee
82 Posted 21/05/2013 at 00:10:07
Ian Linn, sorry for jumping in... are you for real? the whole 'please explain' part of your post. If you don't know, instinctively, what Jackie is on about then you need to get down to the Everton store and buy yourself a couple of books.
Patrick Murphy
83 Posted 21/05/2013 at 00:11:02
Ian #558 Sorry for answering the question you addressed to Jackie but the fall from grace in my opinion began in the early 90s and has continued to this day, it is this off the pitch fall from grace that concerns me the most, because for every year it continues the harder it is for us to maintain our position in the league and build a team with the right blend without continuing to mix and match and sell and buy cheaper versions of what we had here in the first place.

Goodison Park has had one new stand built - the Park End by Peter Johnson of all people - and Bellfield once an asset has been sold so that we can rent Finch Farm - Everton FC used to be associated with breaking transfer records and now we have to scrape around bargain hunting.

We have failed miserably to exploit the commercial side of the club and have wasted every single penny of the Sky money on wages because we didn't think it prudent to find other income streams. To add insult to injury we have also managed to see our debt grow every year and it never seems to improve.

I would claim that to be a failure of enormous proportions.

Jackie Barry
84 Posted 21/05/2013 at 00:39:25
I think patrick sums it up perfectly, if you think otherwise ian tell us why?
Ernie Baywood
85 Posted 21/05/2013 at 00:44:26
There's some sense in what KR says but not regarding compensation. Why should we expect anything for Moyes? This isn't like a player where we could have transferred listed him a year ago. He is about to finish a contract he has fulfilled. We've no damages to be compensated for!

If he'd simply left on June 30 people wouldn't consider it. But because he's going to Utd everyone gets greedy and starts thinking "they've got loads of money, why can't we have some of it?".

Ciaran Duff
86 Posted 21/05/2013 at 01:40:34
Does Kev mean "rooted" in the Aussie sense?
Jackie Barry
87 Posted 21/05/2013 at 01:54:44
For me it has nothing to do with money, it's the lack of respect. After todays United visit he certainly shouldn't be showing his face anymore at Everton. United's own conduct should be questioned here too but knowing BK he went out for lunch with them too.
Roman Sidey
88 Posted 21/05/2013 at 02:06:16
Ciaran, I must admit that's how I read it the first time.
Tim Jones
90 Posted 21/05/2013 at 02:51:19
I see the Moyes Boys are continuing with their 'blame everybody but him campaign' even though their Messiah , SAF and Man U treated Everton with utter contempt, disrespect and deceit.
Billy Liar of course is exposed as the know nothing ball-less eunuch that he is and Evertons mismanagement continues apace.
Tim Jones
91 Posted 21/05/2013 at 03:19:34
From todays DM article
"David Moyes turned up for work 43 days early on Monday morning. Even by Sir Alex Ferguson’s standards, it was some show of commitment.

Less than 16 hours after the final whistle had blown on Everton’s season, Moyes drove into Manchester United’s training headquarters at Carrington just before 9.20am to open a new chapter in his life.

He is not due to officially succeed Ferguson until July 1, but the new manager is clearly in no mood to stand on ceremony and Everton have given Moyes their blessing to get started."

That last sentence encapsulates all thats wrong at Everton and with Billy Liar and Dire davey. It seems that everyone thinks Man U are far too important to suffer any gap in leadership and BK is acknowledging this by grovelling at their feet.

What about Everton BK ?- Ho Hum lets WAIT and see plenty of time left before the new season.

And Moyes Boys just know this makes sense.

Ian Linn
92 Posted 21/05/2013 at 03:01:16
I re read your posts and I have changed my kind, you are all right and I am wrong.
Our fall from grace has been horrendous, just ask any Blackburn, Wolves, Middlesborough, Portsmouth (list goes on) fan to comment an Everton's fall from grace and see what kind of answer you get.
Plenty of clubs have exploited Sky's money - Man U (also have biggest following in the world and the greatest Manager in the English game ever), Man City (bankrolled by mega rich arabs and gifted a new stadium), Chelsea (see Man City but replace 'Arab' with "Russian', remove stadium comment), Arsenal (rich owners and
have almost won as little as us in 11 years).

In fact I can only think of one that might and that's Spurs.

Peter Johnson - the man who almost took us down every season, yes, built the park end but should have been a double tier stand with corporate boxes. He did nothing for the club. If you think he did, watch some of the season reviews from his era and see some the shit served up week in week out. Would make this season's side look like Brazil.

Failure of enormous proportions? - would you rather us be relegated like Newcastle, West Ham, come back up and then circulate around the lower half of the league - what kind of failure would that be?

Look, I want Everton to win every week and win all the trophies but I am also anchored in reality. Since I've been watching Everton in the 70s, we had 5 or 6 good seasons 1984-89 or so and one good season in the 90s.

We just don't have the money to compete - and many teams that do have more money than us are worse. Would you really want to swap places with Newcastle or Villa? How about Wigan, a well run club, visionary of a young manager, just won the FA Cup. Great, they just got relegated. And I'll bet you a hundred bucks they won't get up next season.

Yes, let's get Kenwright to sell the club, there's bound to be some Venkys out there with some cash, let's see where that takes us.

Steve Carter
93 Posted 21/05/2013 at 04:15:20
Honestly, it would seem that Ratters and some of you have little idea about business and still less about the law of employment. David Moyes was on a fixed term contract. He could not be 'made' - or as Ratters would have it 'got' - to sign a fresh one. What are you suggesting: that we made him the proverbial offer that he couldn't refuse? He was always in his rights, as he essentially did, to say, 'I will wait until the season is over, and then consider my position'. There are many possible reasons why he would not allow himself to be 'got' by Everton such that would allowed us to 'sell' him to Manchester United. Who knows when it became apparent to Moyes when an offer from MU was a cert. However, one reason why he might have held off would be so as not to limit offers to only those who would be prepared to stump up, as someone above asserts, £15 million to Everton for his services. There'd be few in World football that would have been prepared to do so, I'd think. And who knows if MU would have? At any rate, all Moyes did was to put himself in the best position to field offers - be they from MU, Everton or whoever. To the anti-Moyes/anti-Kenwright brigade - isn't that what you do in your business (assuming that any of you have actually run one) or in your employment?
Jackie Barry
94 Posted 21/05/2013 at 04:27:06
Ian those clubs you mention along the lines of Blackburn, Wolves and Middlesborough don't even comes close to a club of Everton's stature. What I'm asking you to include in your review is what goes on behind the scenes, the stadium, the clubs media machine, training ground etc. While Moyes brought stability on the pitch our club is in financial diastrates. This club has a strong history something that our owners should have built on, used in selling the club abroad to possible fans, we have literally been left standing. Before Man U took hold of the EPL were they really that much more successful than us? We can agree to disagree if you want, but cut the sarcasm, it doesn't suit you.
Jackie Barry
95 Posted 21/05/2013 at 04:40:07
Steve you are right and I don't want any money from Man U. However, the idea that this deal was drawn up in a few days and nothing was known about smells a little off to say the least, still if they don't want to admit they knew anything that is up to them. I will say though that the amicable thing for Moyes to do should have been to step down, and he most certainly should not be involved inchoosing his replacement, especially when he isn't retiring. It is time to move on and wait in wonder at what lies ahead.
Steve Carter
96 Posted 21/05/2013 at 04:38:37
I've just read your post Tim Jones (572); I'm sorry, but are you for real? If you've ever owned a business, has an employee resigned to go to a rival? Or, if you're an employee, have you ever resigned to go somewhere else? What is the point of keeping someone on when they want to be elsewhere, or you keeping on somewhere where you don't want to be any more? What could we possibly want Moyes to stay on and do?
Jim Harrison
97 Posted 21/05/2013 at 04:24:57
I agree Ian, while Everton are the stand-out club in relation to their history, there are many former cup and league winning teams that no longer grace the top tier. Forest were twice european cup proper winners. Leeds and Blackburn have both won the title more recently. Wolves won it 3 times in the 50s. All those teams have fallen away.

Even still in the Prem, Villa and Sunderland have 13 titles between them, both have larger stadiums & wealthy backers. Both have shite squads, one that has over the past 2 season seen virtually every decent player sold off, the other re stocked every season with shite Man Utd cast offs (again an area where Everton do well!)

More pointless Stats.....12 of the 23 teams that have won the English title no longer play at the highest level. History, it would seem, is not as powerful as we would like it to be.

Now, I want titles, top players, the best coach, a new stadium... But it just ain't gonna happen, no matter what BK does. Investment would need to be on an unprecedented level, more than any of the current batch of billionaires have spent to really put Everton back in the big time proper.

Jackie Barry
98 Posted 21/05/2013 at 05:01:44
So Jim are you suggesting we realign our expectations of what we want from Everton FC? There in lies the problem for me because years of errosion have already caused this to happen without many of us realizing, it keeps happening and you end up appreciating mid table mediocrity, a top 4 challenge that never quite comes off. Just saying it's important to realize where we are currently but never think that expecting is too much for Everton FC.
Jim Harrison
99 Posted 21/05/2013 at 05:13:35
Jackie, I think we all realised it happened! Still happening? On the pitch at least there has been some steps forward. I think the off pitch issues are the ones that require the biggest funding. Stadiums cost more than a decades worth of Everton players. I have to say that challenging for 4th spot in the current climate is still pretty impressive. If we use history as a marker, we should be finishing 4th! (Behind Liverpool and Arsenal). The erosion has happened, the situation isn't good, but it still isn't at crisis point.

And yes, I do think we need to adjust our expectations! Expecting a squad that has nowhere near the talent pool of 4 of the 5 teams finishing above us to somehow defy logic and exceed expectations even further is just not realistic. My expectations? what could change the current situation? To really make Everton a force again? Investment in the team will help, but short term.

The revenue generated by getting into the top 4 would be significant, but enough to seriously and consistently challenge the current top 3? Probably not (See Newcastle, Leeds, Liverpool). A new stadium would be a clincher, but to realistically get that investment the team would need to be getting into the top 4 to boost the revenue to a level that someone would see the venture as financially viable. Chicken. Egg.

Ian Linn
100 Posted 21/05/2013 at 05:58:13
Jackie, 6th place is not mid table mediocrity.

You'll have to define 'years of erosion' for me - are we in a significantly weaker position than we were 10 years ago? 20 years ago? - I suspect not.

If Jelavic had had his shooting boots on this season (say 20 goals), then top 4, if not top 3 would have happened. It's a fine line.....

Also, don't forget, there are 19 other teams in the league trying to do exactly the same thing - and every year half a dozen of them are pretty damn good.

Eric Myles
101 Posted 21/05/2013 at 06:05:02
"Did the Moyes out brigade put anythought into who was going to replace him and the consequences of him leaving?"

Yes, Yes they did. There's been inumerable posts about possible replacements for Moyes over the last 11 years, UTFSE.

Eric Myles
102 Posted 21/05/2013 at 06:13:17
Andy #512, FSW bankrupt the RS, so he wouldn't come to us as we're in the same situation that he left them.
Eric Myles
103 Posted 21/05/2013 at 06:25:27
Ian "are we in a significantly weaker position than we were 10 years ago? 20 years ago? - I suspect not."

Tell me what the debt was 20 years ago, 10 years ago and now.

Do the same for our fixed assets.

Then you'll understand the significatly weaker position we are in.

Eric Myles
104 Posted 21/05/2013 at 06:42:50
It's a sad state of affairs when we're bemoaning that we didn't get a few million Quid in compo from a departing manager.
Gavin Ramejkis
105 Posted 21/05/2013 at 07:15:44
Eric, using one of Kenshite's own friends of the club - every penny counts
Peter Foy
106 Posted 21/05/2013 at 07:49:22
Jackie, the club motto that you refer to is being axed.
Andy Walker
107 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:10:00
Gavin 523 - if only it was that simple. The most important aspect of raising finance is whether someone is prepared to lend you the money and on what terms. Do you really think financiers will be as amenable to lending say Stubbs £10m to spend as opposed to Moyes? Of course they won't. Chances are they will not be prepared to lend as much to our club as IN THEIR EYES the debt risk has increased massively after the safe pair of hands that was Moyes has gone. Even if they were prepared to lend, the terms of the debt will not be as attractive as it will need to reflect the higher risk of lending money for an untried manager to spend.
You have ignored this fundamental point in your simplistic analysis.
Patrick Murphy
108 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:33:13
I hope Kenwright reads this snippet from last night's LMA awaards as reported in the Mail today.


Ferguson also supplied advice to retiring players and insisted they had to earn their chance in the top flight by first working in the lower leagues. ‘Prepare to be a manager,’ he said. ‘It’s no use finishing one day and being a manager the next.

‘I’m dead against fast-tracking managers in the game. You’re not doing yourselves any favours. Prepare, get your badges, work for years at lower levels and earn the right to be a manager.’

Is that a warning to Pip I wonder?

Drew Shortis
109 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:22:47
@Jim Harrison 580
I think that's a pretty realistic assessment. I wish it wasn't but there is no point in burying our heads in the sand, I don't agree that we need more investment than Man City to be back in the big time, but significant investment in players and a new stadium is required and as you point out that is a real Catch 22 situation.

I'm in my mid thirties and have only hazy memories of Kendall's team of the mid eighties. Since then all I have really known is Everton struggling to get back to the top, mostly with little real success. So my expectations may well be different to a fan in their mid forties or fifties who remembers the glory days clearly. Of course I want us to win trophies, but I can also find pleasure in the small victories and achievements. I just pray we can find a way to attract enough investment to get into a new stadium and become competitive within the new financial fair play rules!

Roberto Birquet
110 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:55:08
On a sympathetic reading, Moyes had Kenwright and the club over a barrel. The team was close to champions league places, so how could they threaten him to sign a deal? If you don't sign, we'll replace you now? What? With all the costs that would imply? Pay off, getting a new manager? And lose one of the League's top managers who has the confidence of the squad?

The only way they could have got him to sign a deal was through buying Negredo or another 15-20 goal striker. That would have put at least some moral pressure on Moyes. And we may never know - or at least for some time - whether he knew he had the Man U job. But a couple of facts suggest he knew he at least had a big chance. Fergie had decided to leave by Xmas; they are friends and are bound to talk, Fergie wanted Moyes to succeed him, ...well, that's enough for me.

We couldn't get him to sign, because we're no longer a particularly big club, and he can attract such. We earn £80 m a year, and most of it is dependent on TV revenues. We need a sugar daddy.or a new ground. Our only hope is attracting a strong young manager who sees Everton as at least having a strong squad already in place.

Phil Bellis
111 Posted 21/05/2013 at 10:03:22
Ian

"We just don't have the money to compete..."

Begs the question why?...surely?

I think I'd go back to 1987, at least, to start looking

Roberto Birquet
112 Posted 21/05/2013 at 10:02:02
To those saying we could not afford £4 million for Moyes are ignoring league placings. They are almost £1m per place. We can argue till the cows come home about Moyes the manager, but what is uncontestable is that he added 7-8 places a year to our finishes, and that pays all his wages.

It would be a gamble to assume that anyone could have got us that, and that it was all down simply to previous managers from 1992-2002 (minus one or, perhaps, two years under Royle) being incompetent that left us around 15th spot each year.

But on that point, the lower salary for the next boss will free up cash for the compensation. What we cannot afford is a dud who we have to pay off next year 'cos he wasn't good enough.

Oliver Molloy
113 Posted 21/05/2013 at 10:07:36
Moyes should not be @ Everton now getting paid.

Moyes would have been offered the Man City job,Utd most likely knew this.

I do not believe him that he knew nothing.

I predict he will not be a roaring success @ Utd.

Kenwright,quite frankly is not a business man and his heart rules his head.

The next manager @ Everton will be one who costs us nothing,so take your pick


Jackie Barry
114 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:52:19
Thank you Eric, thank you Phil, people only look at the outside when it comes to Everton, as long as the league placing is fine everything is ok. Also Peter wonder why they are getting rid, or wanting to get rid of our club motto? Good question.
Patrick Murphy
115 Posted 21/05/2013 at 12:15:32
On the club badge fiasco is it really any more difficult to manufacture than the MUFC or MCFC badges, they have the same kit makers - who BTW are reportedly paying Man City £72m for a six year deal to wear their kit. How much do we get from them - er probably as much as got in compo for DM.

Matt Traynor
116 Posted 21/05/2013 at 12:22:12
Eric Myles #588, well said. I suspect you'll be waiting a while for Mr Linn to respond.
Steve Brown
117 Posted 21/05/2013 at 12:27:02
There are some proper names put forward on this thread - Bielsa, Rijkaard, Perreira, even god forbid Benitez. That is the benchmark we should be aiming for.

But the spectre of the old boys network - Neville, Stubbs, Weir, - or 'we have a project plan' managers scares the shit out of me.

Dick Fearon
118 Posted 21/05/2013 at 12:34:40
Since when has the Australian colloqueism 'Rooted' become part of the Scouse vernacular.
Reminds me of a newcomer to the land of Oz who wanted to get a round in. He asked how he should place his order, an Auzzie in the company advised him to ask the barmaid for a Root!
Oh' and Benitez is my pick.
Patrick Murphy
119 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:36:26
Dick I think Jasper Carrot was responsible in the 70s he mentioned the surprised response he got from his Aussie mates when he told them he and his misses had been rooting in an upstairs cupboard all afternoon.


Eric Myles
120 Posted 21/05/2013 at 15:41:31
Andy #614, but you forget that we have friends in the BVI since our risk profile with the mainstream banks has been sky high for some time.

Do we still have a credit rating of 'cash only'?

Dick Fearon
122 Posted 21/05/2013 at 22:04:39
Asked what route he would take. The Aussie's replied, I'll take the missus again.
boom boom!
Robbie Muldoon
123 Posted 21/05/2013 at 22:14:39
Has the one about the estate agent looking for million pound houses in Formby for Vitor been mentioned in here yet? It's why his odds have been slashed in a day I think.
Michael Brien
124 Posted 22/05/2013 at 07:53:34
I am very glad that as a player Kevin Ratcliffe vwas more aware of what was going on. He must be the only person with any Everton connections that seems to have been unaware of the fact that, back in the autumn,David Moyes said that he was going to wait until the end of the season before he decided if he was going to sign a new contract at Everton.

I have respect for Kevin Ratcliffe but I think that this time he is wrong.And whilst Kenwright has many faults I think that in this he is not to blame - sorry but I don't go for the let's blame Kenwright for all that goes wrong brigade.And as regards Kevin - well he hasn't actually set the football managerial world alight has he ? A great player - but crap manager - perhaps we should remember that fact before giving his opinions about the Everton manager more praise than he deserves.

Paul Dark
125 Posted 22/05/2013 at 09:24:41
Kenwright thinks that Moyes is bigger than the club ... by far. He said recently he hopes we don't let David down now he's left. I ask you! Embarrassing!

Of course, the Rat is right.


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