Martinez: We need to strengthen

"I am not saying (the Champions League) is a realistic target, it has to be the dream. We cannot expect that to be a target straight away."

Contrast this with David Moyes who frequently talked about trying to reach the top-four last season.

This gem: "That is not the league we are in.." sounds very 'knife to a gunfight-esque,' to me.

If Moyes had made that statement last season he would have been slaughtered for it.

Surely if you've finished in the top-eight 9 times in the last 11 years, and in the top-seven for 5 years in a row, reaching the top-four shouldn't be dismissed as a dream..??

If Martinez gives plans to give younger players an opportunity to show what they can do in the first team it would be worth building a larger squad and rotating a few of them into the team to give them experience, bearing in mind not all of them will make the grade. With our financial constraints a few more Colemans are what we can really do with trying to find, rather than risk money on marquee signings. If we were Man City I would say spend, spend, spend, but I think we have to plan for a more sustainable future policy, at least until we get some major investment.

I don't blame him coming out and trying to set peoples expectations lower, it takes the pressure off him a little.

Get some good players in and let's see where we go from there.

Throwing away one-goal leads in countless games doing what? Playing deeper and deeper in most games, never trying to score that killer goal, defending every set piece with 11 men behind the ball, starting with one striker in almost every game (home and away), playing people out of position or sticking with his favourites despite their form etc......

I agree with you that CL football was within our grasp but Moyes's conservatism ruined our chances. If Martinez can combine our 'spirit' with a more adventurous style then I think we'll be okay.

I hope we do tonk the shite but its funny that some posters automatically think we will beat the Sky 4 just because we have changed managers.

So, lets hope he brings in some nifty material for those last pesky yards inside that strange box on the other side of the field from our GK, that one marked with forbidding white lines ina square shape... :P

He didn't throw away countless one goal leads though did he, he threw away a few. Plenty of others we went on to win. If he threw away so many leads we wouldn't have won any games.

How did we play deeper and deeper in most games? A lot of times we absolutely battered teams but just couldn't kill them off and occasionally fell to a sucker punch at the end. The only two games I recall us sitting deeper and deeper were Old Trafford and Anfield away. Others we were often just plain out of shape in like Norwich and Sunderland away.

Martinez likes to play one striker as well and he's also articulated countless times the many benefits of defending with every man back behind the ball on a corner. Ultimately people on here will find different faults with Martinez that will become equally infuriating to them as Moyes's faults because some people just have no patience for losing or drawing any game at all and disguise this under ridiculous assertions like '11 years of hoofball' 'no entertainment in 11 years' 'Never killing off a game' 'Never playing attacking football' 'Moyes was only bothered about 40 points' - complete rubbish that years of the premier league tables disproved time and time again.

I hope for Martinez's sake Colin that Moyes was as bad as you think he was because for those assuming a bit of attacking football, not putting everyone back at a corner and not bringing Naismith on in the 88th minute is going to see us ease into the champions league then they're in for a shock.

Of course Martinez might be the miracle worker and become the latest manager outside of the moneyed elite to get into the top 4 - only one man's done it before though - heard he was rubbish as well.

Moyes consistently pushed on from that, and was nearer to 60 points virtually every year.

RM's been in the job 5 minutes...and he's already scaling back the expectations of us all. We're talking about challenging just TWO places above where we finished last season, with the prospect of a larger war chest.

Last season, Moyes said that we should ALWAYS be challenging for Europe...yesterday Martinez said that finishing 6th was great "for a club like Everton."

At the top level, he's only experienced relegation battles, and is un-used to the sharp-end of the Premiership; but with our superior squad, his mindset ought to be much more ambitious, assertive and definitive.

Moyes was frequently bollocked for pessimism on ToffeeWeb. It appears that Martinez is being a little vague here.

Hopefully, the modesty is merely mis-direction.

Equally Spurs are a good team, no one is going to go to WHL and just batter them to a pulp, you have to defend at some point against top sides its just delusional to think otherwise. A draw was a fair result - they went in front we got it back, we went in front they got it back. Just because they had the ifnal say doesn't mean Moyes somehow chucked that game - they piled the pressure on us and forced us to retreat, that's what top sides do at home when they need a goal - that's exactly what we did to them at Goodison.

We should have had loads of pens in the Reading game - we then got one against us that was barely a pen - we didn't play well but we were hardly sat deep, we battered them first half. Stuff like that happens and will continue to happen under Martinez because funnily enough when you go ahead against a side away from home they don't just sit there and allow you to score 4 or 5, a lot of the times they hit back and apply the pressure - for a lot of the season our players dealt well with this - on certain occassions they didn't.

That's why we were 6th in the league because we had the 6th best team - the players on our books do not have the strength or depth to get top 4 without additions. They do not compare to Arsenal's squad. Moyes played in a way that tried to negate the quality gap - unfortunately at times it meant against lesser opposition you were sometimes caught wanting. When/if we open up under martinez there will be some big wins against teams but there will also be some games where an Arsenal or Chelsea will show us just how much better their squads are and what seemed like infuriating KITAP1 away draws will turn into heavy heavy defeats. At the end we'll probably still end up outside the top 4 because this squad of players is not good enough. The only surprise in premier league history of getting in the top 4 was Everton of 04/05 - every other season has gone with whoever has spent the most on their team and has the high value squad. next season will probably go the same way unless Roberto truly is special. I hope he is.

Please don't paint me into the 'I told you so,' Brigade. I've repeatedly stated that I will back him to the hilt, and my Season Ticket has been renewed.

Oh, and every time Moyes SNEEZED it was psychoanalysed to the nth degree. No reason why we shouldn't scrutinise the new man too.

My premise is a simple one: He is here to surpass Moyes. Period. Any vague whiff of even a hint to the contrary, will simply not be good enough. This is the best squad we've had for a long time.

I'd really like to know what he would have said if left to his own devices...

After all the great stuff Martinez has come out with over the last 24 hours, to seize on one line is harsh no matter how tempting that may be.

Martinez is well aware of this and given time and support he will put together the kind of team we have all prayed for. Much will depend on him being allowed to keep his star performers.

But then upon further reflection, I thought to myself 'well, if he can make the statement behind closed doors in order to get himself the job, why not highlight the fact in public?'. His backtrack now makes him look a bit of a twat in all honesty, if he did say that was the target.

I think there are some very valid points being raised above. I anticipated Martinez to have this 'no fear' attitude that people had been talking about. He now comes out with statements saying that CL is not actually a plan, but only a dream? Whilst I believe personally this is true with the squad and finances available, it seems to contradict this 'winning' mentality that Martinez is meant to instill. So what will the players make of that? What would Fellaini think when his boss says the CL that Fellaini himself obviously craves, is just a dream? It's as though he is making excuses already.

We don't have the squad or the forwards to compete over a 38 game season, but that doesn't mean we can't aim for it, if it is purely down to finance then 7th is Heaven and anything more is a bonus. If BK hadn't have opened his mouth, Martinez would have been smart enough to negotiate the question without raising expectations too high. Suppose Everton have the bad start to the season that had become the norm under Moyes and we are in the bottom half at the beginning of October then all of RM's critics will be using the 'CL you're having a laugh' line against him.

If we're not going to get CL or even Europe, the least we can expect is too watch a team play decent football that at least wants to win the game rather than settle for not losing it. I just hope that RM gets a decent amount of time before those who don't rate him start their campaigns to have him removed, I thought that stability was seen as a major positive of the club but perhaps that depends on which personnel are involved.

Frankly, I think it's more Kenwright bullshit.

Due diligence eh!

He wants Champions League but understands that next season will be tough as players will need to learn a new system of play. This doesn't mean that it will not be a target; it just means, come on, let's be realisic.

I think a few people on here are too quick to jump on everything that he says to turn it into their negative. I do like that fact he wants to make the squad bigger, I could never understand Moyes's 16-man squad policy.

Martinez was not my first choice; however, after thinking about it, I think it was the right one, and I think we should all give him the chance to prove what he can do.

We should be aiming for Europe and have been for the last few seasons so there is nothing new to see here.

He is everything we are looking for in a striker, him and Mirallas up front would be fantastic.

When DM made his 'knife to a gunfight' remark he had established his team and tactics and in my opinion bottled it when up against what he thought was a stronger team. Psychology wins games. Moyes was a pessimist. I believe Bobby M is an optimist but at present I'm happy with his realistic words.

In Bob we trust!

I'm nervous. This could go either way! Personally not my preferred option but now he's the Everton manager he gets my support as did Moyes. I support Everton Football Club. The day we support an individual, we will resemble Mourinio FC and Kenny Dogleash supporters.

And Chris (562), don't ever base success on getting one over on them - it fuels the bitter tag. I feel your pain, but a measure of success isn't beating Liverpool in a one-off fixture. The last time we won the league I endured a 3-1 defeat at Analfield against a Liverpool team who were the Utd of that generation. But we were champions so that victory was hollow. Rise above the short-termism!

Lets be honest we need a little more still than Benteke and a few frees after all, we cant spend all of a budget on a (unlikely but eminently possible) one season striker.

If Martinez comes in and says that essentially, he aspires to keep us at the same level as Moyes did...then what is the point of that?

He needs to believe he can surpass the last manager, and he needs to tell us that minus the cautionary language.

In his defence however, he did mention something about "taking it to the next level," which is great; and at 39 years old, I do suspect he's an ambitious manager with a progressive attitude, who should be given room to grow.

But the paucity of adverse reactions to the scaling-down, when this site positively shrieked with outrage when Moyes did it, points to a hypocrisy amongst ToffeeWebbers, under the umbrella of 'benefit of the doubt,' or laughingly, 'lost in translation.'

Nobody was excited with the DM ceiling of 6th.

RM has to be aiming higher. We finished 6th...with a surplus of draws in winnable games sp it's not an unrealistic target to finish top 4. I welcome the CL comments.

Also hope he brings a new mindset in big games, a bit like SAF's mission of "knocking the RS off their perch" when he arrived at OT. Let's take that mindset into every game - including matches with the so-called Big Four.

This is a massive opportunity for change at EFC - with the luxury of a solid foundation and a full summer to prepare.

BE PREPARED!!!!!

Personally I hope he doesn't come in a change things radically. This team is good enough to push on and achieve something better than 6th but play to its strengths and introduce your own style gradually (less the defending philosophy - leave that in Wigan please). Rather than go all out I think it just needs a few decent additions to provide depth in the squad and release the shackles that Moyes instinctively couldn't relax on enough occasions, especially in the last season where for once he had the type and quality of player to do so.

That's why I think he could go either way....try to change the style too much too early and the doomsday situation is a Mike Walker scenario (I remember Southall complaining that we were trying to "tippy tap" it out from the back when we simply didn't have the players to do it). Tongue in cheek but does anyone else shudder at the prospect of Hibbert and Jags playing one-twos out of our own 18 yard box!!

Good luck Roberto; take this team to the next level. We weren't far off Tottenham last year until the last few games and I think fell foul of a particularly strong top 5 this year. That sort of performance and points tally would have been rewarded with European football of some flavour any other season.

You're another Moyes critic who's being disingenuous here.

You were VERY vocal about DM's conservatism, but strangely tolerant of Martinez pointing out similar constraints, and echoing a familiar refrain.

The only thing I have read in the last few days that concerns me is RM's views on training, which one of his associates at Wigan mentioned. It went along the lines that he believes in training hard and often, which is fine, but considering the number of injuries he endured during his time at Wigan is a concern for me. I hope he doesn't only concentrate on the physical aspects of training as it is technical ability that our players need to concentrate on. I can hardly imagine that DM was soft on our players went it came to the physical aspects of training and we ran out of steam in games due to lack of rotation rather than a lack of fitness. Also he has to let some of his natural enthusiasm rub off on the squad and help them believe that they are not a bad team and can compete at the higher end of the PL.

I also think he will be making a mistake if he brings all of his backroom staff from Wigan with him and doesn't keep as many of the people already at Finch Farm, although it doesn't seem like we will have many left save Duncan and Stubbs.

Good Luck Roberto I have a feeling you're going to need plenty of it.

"Champions League is a dream."

"6th place was magnificent for a club like Everton."

Absolutely spot on, all 'coaching' and no football.

Our 'system' is imo backward when compared to Spain, Holland, Germany and many other countries.

It's like we don't want to learn or we think because 'we' had an 'Empire' we have an automatic right to be good/successful.

It's odd, as long as I can remember, the FA have been setting up some new school of 'excellence' or other and from what I've seen, they've all produced virtually fuck-all.

I looked at that under 21 game against Italy the other night and thought if a kid is a great big athletic lump and it looks like someone has left a coat-hanger in his shirt, he's half-way there these days.

I watched my mate's lad playing for a local team of under 12s last year and their 'manager' (some fat shaven-headed bell in a trackie who thought he was Fergie) screamed himself red in the face after the game (nb: after they'd won!) coz this one or that one hadn't followed his instructions to the letter.

Rooney is a great player with bags of skill but he'll never look as good as he did at 17 because it's been coached out of him.

And there aren't too many like Rooney - Bale and maybe one or two others but most UK players, to me, look like plodders.

Fit, strong, fast and...very very average with a ball at their feet.

Dull, predictable and mistakes everywhere.

In the last few days I've watched a couple of full England games, plus the Italy under 21 game and Ireland V Faroe and the standard of passing in all of them has been fucking woeful.

And I'm not talking about Hoddle-style 40 yard cross-field balls either, I'm talking straight line 10 yard passes that are given away to the opposition time after time after time after..

To try and look at the big picture, I DO blame the coaches/FA.

I don't believe there's something special about the Spanish/German/whatever that means they're born with better control of a football or a better ability to read a game.

From what I've seen/heard we concentrate FAR too much on little kids winning leagues and cups and not enough on control, passing, skills etc.

The little kids version here is just like the adults version "win-win-win!"

In France I went to see my mate's son playing for his village side "La Mayeraille En Caux" (Normandy).

Talk about different.

He was 14 and it was his first year playing in a league.

Before that they played matches against other towns/villages and all the kids naturally wanted to win their games but it wasn't for a title.

Consequently there wasn't hundreds of lunatic arl fellers bursting blood vessels and screaming "FUCKING GET RID MICKY!!"

It was much more relaxed and (possibly) because the kids weren't worried about being bawled at by a psychopath, they were relaxed and confident about showing what they could do.

The answer has imo been out there for years now, but it seems the people who run our game know 'best'.

Man City: win, draw (Bad penalty decision cost another win)
Man Utd: win, lose
Chelsea: lose, lose (not great)
Arsenal: draw, draw
Spurs: win, draw (lucky last minute goal for two wins but we did to it to them first game)
Liverpool: draw, draw (both teams unlucky in both games, should've been one win each)

So that's 3 defeats in 12 games, 3 wins and 6 draws. For a club in our posistion, that ain't a bad return from teams spending 10-15 times what we do a season.

I personally didn't want Roberto Martinez to join but he is here now, a few players and a little more attack-minded and I'm sure he can build on last season.

Let Fellaini go; he was hit and miss most games, lucky to stay on the pitch in a lot of the games, and no way near the £22-24M thats being touted; take the cash and let the guy build...
Very exiting for all Evertonians this coming season...COYB

Now I understand that some people are happy with this appointment, some are not sure and hope all will work out well, and then a third group feel he's not up to the job and most of these people put good points across to back up their view.

Amongst all this though there seems to be a fourth group, a group who I believe were so besotted with Moyes that they refuse to believe that he would ditch us for someone else, and they are directing their pain and anger at Martinez. I read things like he's backtracking, he's a twat, he's already making his excuses.... Fuck me, I'd be surprised if his name has been painted on the door yet and people have got the knives out.

Davey Moyes had 11 years here before he decided to dump us, plenty of time to decide if he was the Moyesiah or Dithering Dave or maybe somewhere in between; make your own mind up you're entitled to your views. So how about we cut Martinez some slack and give him a bit of time before we decide if he's gonna achieve anything? It doesn't have to be 11 years... it could even be after one game but at least let him get his name painted on the fucking door.

Will Martinez be good for Everton? Well, like everyone else on this site, I haven't got a fucking clue; some many factors to come into play and only time will tell. What he does get off me though is my support and hope that all will work out well. For those whose pain will not even allow him this, may I suggest a drive up the East Lancs Road... Who knows — you may catch a glimpse of the ex.