The Slumbering Giant: Part 3 - Treading Water

After all these years, Robert Earl’s involvement in the club seems slightly bizarre. I can understand his original investment as more of a favour to oust Gregg to aid Kenwright, but why is he still there? First and foremost, he’s a businessman, and – by the way his various companies are doing here in the States – a very good one (he’s also been on TV tons as well the last few months in the US and I even saw his own food show once).

After the Planet Hollywood downfall, he now owns the Earl of Sandwich and Buca Di BeppoÂ’s restaurants as well as keeping the rights to Planet Hollywood (plus heÂ’s the Chairman of the casino in Vegas). All this has made him a very wealthy man.

His 23% of the club was bought for around ٦M from Paul Gregg; let’s say the clubÂ’s worth 𧴵M, his shares would be worth 㿈.75M, a cool 㿀M profit.

As said before, why is he still there? I think most people had the presumption he had a connection to Kirkby move, and was going to make a quick buck by selling after they club moved for a profit. The only reason I can think why heÂ’s still here is he uses the share ownership as his Â’party pieceÂ’.

HeÂ’s been on TV quite a bit recently over here in the States, either on chat shows or on pieces promoting his restaurants. In all the shows, its been highlighted that heÂ’s the Â’ownerÂ’ of Everton Football Club. Watch the cringe-worthy interview on the Seth Meyers show to prove a point. With the growth of football here and the notoriety of Tim Howard, people are taking notice. Sports team ownership is a big thing here, and for him to say heÂ’s the owner of a Premier League team is a huge vanity bump for him. If they only knew he bought it for ٦ million and has put sod all in afterwards.

ItÂ’s like the unfairness of the real estate market; if your family bought in London 30 years ago rather than Liverpool, youÂ’d likely be worth millions right now. If we were based in London, weÂ’d be Arsenal.

Man Utd and the RS are special cases unfortunately, and Man City hit the jackpot with the stadium factor.

Unless this FFP actually somehow works, and doesnÂ’t just maintain the status quo, then we are destined to make up the numbers for the foreseeable.

BK has managed to get away with things purely because he trades on his reputation as a Blue. Be in no doubt he was only ever in it for the money – and personally had he delivered Kings’ Dock, he would’ve been entitled to every million he earned out of it, as our long-term future would’ve been secured, he’d have got his big buyer. But, for whatever reason, that project didn’t materialise, and we’ve had 2nd and 3rd rate proposals ever since. An in-depth, speculation-free appraisal of why that project failed would be of interest to all Blues – but I doubt it can be done.

Speaking of interest... Everton was debt-free when BK et al took over. In the years since (17?), IÂ’d like someone to calculate how much in finance charges/interest payments weÂ’ve seen go out of the club with all of these loans and other "financial instruments" the club has been involved with. Add in to that the shitty commercial deals, and thereÂ’s your new stadium / world class squad right there.

ItÂ’s no wonder the RS hope heÂ’s around for a long time yet.

Unfortunately IÂ’m not convinced that "Boys Pen Bill" is all that committed to the project of a new stadium. As Matt Traynor says, the lost opportunity that was the KingÂ’s Dock stadium is a terrible indictment of KenwrightÂ’s lack of ambition for the club he loves so much.

Walton Hall Park is near enough to Goodison and central enough to be viable; whether the project is pursued with any degree of commitment remains to be seen. I have grave doubts that our beloved chairman is interested in overseeing the building of a new stadium.

Bill will continue waving from the DirectorsÂ’ Box and that really is the extent of his ambition, IÂ’m afraid.

YouÂ’d think that the club/BK would have moved heaven and earth to find the money but he would probably say that it was hard enough pulling together the funds to buy out Johnson a few years earlier. 㿊m back then was an awful lot harder to come by for us than it would be now. And Bill clearly did not fancy Paul GreggÂ’s reverse-mortgage scheme!

It could have been the making of our club, though. A massive missed opportunity. As you say, nothing as come close since and I genuinely believe Bill was relieved that Kirkby got called in in the end because heÂ’d seen how big a mistake it would have been.

In current time I would say that 㿨m still is a steal for that stadium – even if it would rise to 𧴜m for my part. A state-of-the-art mutiple-use stadium in THAT location. IÂ’m no expert but I belief that would pull in far more than just ٤m extra a year. I would say that in a season with European football we might be able to pull in 㾻m extra easily.

I guess we really just didnÂ’t have the money. This was the end of the Walter Smith era, we sold more than we bought at that time. Can you blame Kenwright for this? I donÂ’t know. In hindsight maybe he should have pulled every penny he could get his hands on but we didnÂ’t look like going into Europe regularly at that time, we looked like relegation candidates.

I could see that possible financers at that time saw it as a huge risk. And if you see that we needed to sell Rooney and later Arteta just to keep the banks happy, it might be best that Kenwright didnÂ’t put us into more debt than he already did. I guess that you could blame him for not being rich enough or not being able or willing to find someone else to invest.

IÂ’m afraid that, by not carrying through with the KingÂ’s Dock, weÂ’ve been consigned to the "also rans".

"(...) the NET boost to EFCÂ’s coffers would be (so IÂ’m told — but I havenÂ’t seen the projections) in excess of 㾻M per annum."

In hindsight it seems ridiculous that if the net boost is over 㾻m a year, the club was unable to find financing for 㿊m or 㿨m. Even if it was 㿨m (for which I am unable to find evidence), a loan for that amount payable in ten years at an interest rate of say 12% would have been a golden deal in the end and add money to the coffers from the first year on. But a sentence in the next paragraph might hold the key.

"(...) providing we manage to stay in the Premiership"

I think a lot of financers werenÂ’t too sure about that part at that time.

There are many big challenges ahead around commerce, the stadium, where Everton FC aspires to be in the European (and potentially global game). A wise Evertonian used to say to me, "a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single footstep", and winning a trophy would be a very firm and purposeful step. We have seen previously that such a success can have a catalytic effect. This is a clear, achievable target for next season.

O Lord! Please let it be.

Lots of other interesting points about where we are now but IÂ’m off out for a walk (soft ould git!) but will come back later.

On my trips back to Liverpool IÂ’ve never had any inclination to go near that site, no matter who or what is on there.

The YearÂ’s at the spring
And dayÂ’s at the morn,
United are beaten three to nil
Naught is wrong, naught is ill
BillÂ’s at the helm,
Not a sign of a thorn,
BillÂ’s in his heaven,
AllÂ’s right with the world.

I thought I saw the light at the end of the tunnel last year. That was why I was so disappointed when I thought the light had gone out - but Lo! I see a smouldering flax! (Or am I just a hopeless dreamer)

Lyndon this has been a very interesting series of articles - a sort of big picture of what has been going on over the past 20 years.

What bamboozles me is how West Brom can be up for sale for 𧵎M Link
and yet according to Kristian @ 1 our value could be 𧴵M.

Perhaps the board saw the increase in TV income coming and have been holding out till the increased revenue hits the P&L and balance sheet.

Peter@ 10 - was your pal Chinese by any chance?

First, re "With Everton still only in the exploratory phase of a potential development at Walton Hall Park – one that, like the two projects before it, may never come to fruition – supporters can be forgiven for wondering if we shouldn't start looking at redevelopment ourselves rather than sit around year after year waiting for a mythical white knight with an over-flowing bank account."

Regarding the reluctance to redevelop Goodison, I have never heard the club give a reason. Sure IÂ’ve heard the board say itÂ’s not possible and itÂ’s not feasible, but have never heard a detailed (or any other) explanation as to why itÂ’s not possible and/or feasible.

Surely if it genuinely wasnÂ’t feasible or possible, you would explain exactly why not and then at least, on that issue, weÂ’d all be forced to sing from the same song-sheet (so to speak). To say Â’It canÂ’t happenÂ’ without saying why, just invites (more?) suspicion. (nb: and IÂ’m not particularly against a move to WHP).

Secondly, re Spurs – "It translated to a 㿨m difference in turnover in the two clubs' respective 2014 accounts, with 㿗.5m of that from commercial (non-matchday) activities alone."

The size of this difference to me is a real disgrace. To a degree, I accept Spurs Â’socio-economic and geographical advantagesÂ’ and Â’more attractive market of London and the wealthier catchment area of the south eastÂ’ but theyÂ’re hardly Real Madrid.

I lived in London for 20 years and my first address was 88 White Hart lane - undoubtedly the roughest area IÂ’ve ever lived in (IÂ’m sure they have many supporters who have done well and now live in Edmonton, Enfield. Southgate, Finsbury Pk etc, but Tottenham and itÂ’s immediate surrounds is a big very unposh area)

Walton is certainly deprived but Tottenham could definitely give it a run for itÂ’s money. No doubt their tickets are more expensive but we get a couple of thousand more than them on average.

Yes, London is massive; and yes, Tottenham is in London... but itÂ’s also sort of... not (In short, itÂ’s a looooong way from Big Ben and itÂ’s as rough as guts.)

So, for them to be able to generate 㿨m more than us, without them regularly getting CL, tells me that rather than them being geniuses, our commercial dept are truly hopeless.

Our commercial people on the other hand have absolutely no idea how to sell off our much more illustrious history. We may not be in London, but never underestimate how people aware people in far flung places are of our City. Somebody just needs to remind them that we live there too.

What is the answer to our poor commercial performance? Simple, bring in a team of experts who specialise in growing this type of revenue stream. So, why haven't we done just that? On one hand, we are tied to Kitbag, on the other, there is no appetite for growth from our board. I posted a piece a while back about the club purchasing The Winslow, and turning that into a full hospitality suite. Instead, we are bringing people in from the City centre, after paying the Hilton, or Titanic Hotel for the privilege.

People tend to forget, Bill is also a full-time producer, so after Robert Elstone - who else is driving the club forward?

We are just not set up to take advantage of the riches the Premier League has to offer, the structure is not in place I'm afraid. You only have to look at the Chang sponsorship deal, are you telling me there isn't a business out there offering more lucrative terms? Of course there is, but as usual, there is absolutely no will to even look for a new sponsor. That tells you all you need to know about our outlook as a club.

By the way what is the size of Everton's debt. Oh and why are we tied to the kit bag deal, contracts can be broken can't they?

There is, coincidentally an article in "The Times" today around pretty well this subject.

In the recent Matchday programme it showed the Main stand being built in tandem with the demolition of its predecessor, which makes me wonder why I have seen articles saying how much revenue would be lost if a whole stand had to be closed.

I am aware that until, at least recently, and I am not as up to date on these things as I was, the club do own the area behind the Park stand but it is Mortgaged and the Mortgagors wanted to increase the interest rate they charge for granting Everton the right to develop the site. Bit like on your home mortgage, if you want to take in a tenant you have to get the Lenders' OK.

Like Eugene, I have no real preferences around WHP, but anyone can see that Goodison is not fit for the present day.

Again, great Article and really good constructive discussions.
Cheers, Ian

It's a tough world but we the only way to take a significant forward step off the pitch is to do it on the pitch. Catch 22 really

Helen, contracts can be broken but there will be a penalty to do so.

Our total debt is around 95mn.

Chris, they did try to sell the Park End to the developer on a lease back basis (same as Finch Farm) but it was already tied up in securitisation.

1) I disagree that Everton's potential from commercial revenues is limited by not being in the CL. Whilst that would provide a massive boost it doesn't explain why other clubs (who have also not been in the CL) have higher commercial revenues than us. E.g. Aston Villa, West Ham, Newcastle and Sunderland(!). None of these clubs are remotely near the 'top 5' and a couple were in the championship not too long ago. Some may have the 'London effect' but Sunderland is a shithole (no disrespect to people living there..)

2) Despite being posed the question numerous times, the club has yet to explain why a phased redevelopment of Goodison Park is not possible. The only answer I have ever seen/heard from them is that it was not feasible - without any further details being given as to why. However, independent architects have said it is possible and even came up with an example of how it could be done. If the boards' opinion is that the stadium issue is what is really holding the club back then why has a phased redevelopment of GP not been considered? This would not require a massive outlay from day one, could be funded over 3-5 years by current TV money and would solve the issue whilst keeping the club in the city. It seems however that the only option being looked at is something involving some kind of retail theme.

People say Goodison park wouldn't fill up the corporate boxes in a new stadium - I disagree. There is huge demand for the product and if much lesser clubs are generating significant revenue from corporate and commercial activities, then so can/should we.

3) We will not be able to match the 150-200k/week wages the 'big' clubs pay but at a top 75k/week we still have some of the highest wages outside the 'big 5'. A decent manager, coupled with a first class accademy and scouting network would lead to a first class team on the pitch. If the likes of Klopp/Dortmund can sign a Kagawa for 350k (before selling him for 17m!), why can't we?

In the past decade our whole academy has produced just 2 decent players (Rodwell and Barkley). That is a pretty poor return - 2 in ten years! The decade before gave us; Rooney, Hibbert, Osman, Jeffers, Ball, Dunne and a few more I can't remember. Today we only have 2 regular first teamers who came through the youth (one is 33). Moyes' 11 years saw very few players come through the academy and he seemed to have a preference for experienced players - Martinez has made the right noises so far but it's too soon to see if it's just chat. We hope the likes of Browning, Ledson and Green will make it in time.

I've said on another thread that Everton's priority should not be focused on the CL. We ARE a big club but one that has not won anything for 20 years! We should be focusing on winning trophies and sending the fans to Wembley - that way we would automatically reach Europe anyway whilst increasing the profile of the club. In 18 months' time the CL places in England will likley go down to 3 so the hunt for the CL will be a waste of time as we will not finish in the top 3 anytime soon.

Give me 14th place and the FA cup or League Cup rather than 5th and nothing, any day. If we are playing well there is no reason for the cups to suffer at the expense of the league - its not as it they are that many games extra to play.

I spent over a decade as a marketing manager and hold a Masters degree in marketing can whole heartedly tell everyone on this site that the commercial position of the club doesn't do anything to leverage Everton's brand or reputation. Lots goes on but little seems to leverage our support base or drive the club forward. That being said we need to push ourselves fwd by targeting the domestic cups.

There's a phrase in business 'Managing expectations' and I often feel the board does little to raise them for fear of failure and criticism.

Sure the school could be a problem (on that side of the ground) and there appears to be no give at the St End but have they genuinely looked into it?

If they have, why on earth wouldn't they say something along the lines..

"Redeveloping Goodison Park, is unworkable, unfeasible and impossible for the following reasons..." and then a list of reasons (nb: a list offering transparency and one that makes sense).

If that (or any similar) statement has been issued or printed in any paper, I sure haven't seen it.

I might add that though some problems are insurmountable, others can surely (if there's the will and you employ experts) be solved.

The attitude from our board to the redevelopment of Goodison reminds me of a teenager being asked to tidy his room, a kind of "Oh do I HAVE to!?" or "I'll do it later!"

Many have suggested that the problem boils down to 'our' amateurishness and I absolutely believe this to be the case - tasks that require costly experts and professionals are left to amateurs, and as long as that's the case, regarding every aspect of the 'running' the club (ground, marketing, business, the lot) things are destined to remain second-rate.

Eugene - you're right re the development. The club have said many times its a non starter but have yet to give any general or detailed explanation as to why. The massive TV money would give a decent amount to start, one side of the stadium at a time, over a few years.

We wait and see/hope as usual.

I think Evertons official position is the site/footprint is too small & that only an approx 32k stadium could be constructed, according to the architects employed by the club.

Other plans say this isn't the case.

Absolutely no point in thinking about Goodison being redeveloped.

That requires spending money.

Going on memory here, but Abercromby said he felt he would have stood a good chance of getting people together to significantly help with the funding package, but it was much too late.

Internet digging beckons....

You might well be right, but an 'I think' from you (or me or anyone else) isn't what's needed.

Also, I mentioned transparency - which architects and when?

I wonder if anyone remembers (a good few years back) a supporters group commissioning architects to come up with a plan?

I'm not going to say 'Coz I do and it could be done on the current footprint and increase attendances and corporate boxes' (coz my memory is shot) but I'd love to see it again because I remember it being quite detailed and appearing to work.

What I do remember is there was little or no response from the club.

http://www.keioc.net/index.php?page=redevelopment-plans

http://www.keioc.net/index.php?page=external-renderings

I don't believe the house owners couldn't of been bought out or the school relocated but more a case of greedy people waiting for a handout, so on that assumption and with the hope that one day justice will prevail I'd like a big fuck off stand please. Three- tiered with a row of corporate boxes separating each tier, as steep, high and close to the pitch as possible and built in a way to trap sound.

As others have suggested, I think it's about time the board give reasons as to why a redevelopment can't be done and there needs to be more pressure for them to answer. We can't let another ten years pass and be in the same situation especially with all this money being handed out for the tv rights.

If this club was run by the fans we would be taking advantage of this money and building for the future by purchasing land and building one stand at a time but that just isn't going to happen under the current board.

Thanks for this info

Also a google-search brought up the name 'Trevor Skempton', a blue and an (another?) architect who devised several ways that we could regenerate Goodison giving us attendances from 47,000 to 80,000.

Also a bit of quick research shows the St End houses could be bought for relatively little.

Usually selling for around between 㿔-60k, even if you paid everyone (38 houses) double, it wouldn't cost ٢m.

I'm not suggesting this a solution, but looking at the plans above, it seems clear the ideas of supporters (some obviously experts and professionals) are simply ignored or dismissed by our board of amateurs.

Every successful business starts from the top. The chairman and the board are responsible for the overall planning and financing for the yearly, and most importantly for any business plan, for the ''future'. Their next major priority is to hire (a) a competent manager to run the playing side of the club and (b) a CEO.to run the general and commercial side of the club.

It seems to me and is a fairly general opinion that Everton suffer from lack of dynamic leadership from the top coupled with lack of interest from certain board members and to me this is the major problem at the club.

The 2 problems to me that stand out are the lack of future planning and the inability to provide substantial income from the commercial markets.

In regards to re developing Goodison Park . I have been at a couple of major worldwide mining companies and on major re developments or new mines opening there is no such thing as it can not be done. The only questions that come up are is it financially viable to do it and how long will it last. Modern engineering and methods would be able to come up with a plan for re developing Goodison and I agree with Eugene. All it would take is for the club to issue a statement "Why it is not possible to re develop Goodison Park " and everyone will be happy with that.

Desperate Dan

Also, although I have no love for the occupants of corpulent boxes, i'm sure that if we had more in a re-developed Goodison, we would fill them, given the huge catchment area.
Imagine Mersey prawn sandwiches.

Somebody's going to make a killing along the line and you can bet your bottom dollar it won't be Everton FC.

With the right will (and the will to invest), the club could ask for the road around the Park End to be moved 70 yards into the park. It would cost but not huge sums, thus freeing up huge space for development.
They could build a 25k-seater 'Blue Wall' stand in the Park End.

They could acquire the lorry/car place on the Bullens Road, support the council to relocate the school and expand that stand into a 25k-seater. It needs vision – sadly lacking in this mob.

As for WHP, after all due process is gone through, I expect to see Bill sadly wriggle out of it. I have raised this issue several times on these pages and have yet had any kind of response.

Possibly, but I have a feeling it'd be equally complicated trying to secure land and build a 50,000 seater stadium (plus corporate boxes) with a biscuit tin full of slummy.

Having a word Dynamo seems more realistic option than expecting these puddins to make anything happen.

I’m not doubting that Kenwright used the Church as one of the issues to deflect interest in the question of redevelopment but it doesn’t sit in a position that hinders a rebuild of the Gwladys Street End, it’s land behind that is required.

I’m no architect but I can get a good understanding of how much space is required by looking on Google maps and taking a look at what is being proposed over the Park. If you look at their design and measure the distance left between the stand and the nearest house (and that is them taking the shadow created into account) then were looking at about half the properties from the two streets adjoining Bullens road and relocating the school. This would be enough to build as I’ve said above, a big enough stand for The Park End and Bullens Road without needing to change the structure of the Gwladys End but upgrading it or doing whatever work is required so it meets safety standards.

The option of forcing or CPO land or school doesn't sit ethically right to me BUT that's not the reason the club have said – they just say not possible.

Anyway, Everton will be at Goodson for the foreseeable future.

In post 65 I meant to say "although I DON'T think the plans put forward for development of the ground require the homes by the street end to be bought."

Have to disagree, I personally don't believe there's ever a time 'surely' can be applied to our chairman our board.

They have proved nothing to me other than they are rank amateurs and not to be believed.

I base this not on dislike for the sake of dislike or 'in my opinion', it is based entirely on an actual list of fuck-ups and lies they have been responsible for, over the years.

I've no doubt 'but surely' was said many times over DK.

Would the development of Goodison Park not be a drawback to a potential buyer? Who wants to spend a fortune to spend years on a building site?

I know this is probably dreamlike, but could GP be developed slowly, painlessly, and relatively cheaply with a fans trust or something like that? Yes... I know, vague, is my middle name.

Getting a surveyor in and preliminary talks with an architect can't be too much to expect. After all it would be the club not the board paying for such services.

A strange thought for someone my age (55) as when I was in my teens and 20s, they seemed to win it every bleeding year (and it seemed they would be winning it every year until I died). Souness knocking the 'famous boot room' down and trying to 'go all modern like' was truly a wonderful thing and they've never really been the same since.

Oh and they just got beat by Hull. Up the Toffees!

First of all the Manager went, then some of the best players and they weren't replaced with the best, either manager or players (sorry Colin Harvey, no disrespect to a great player but didn't quite keep us up at the top.)

It seems to me that the Board then, weren't particularly interested in keeping us at the top because they saw no point in doing so. I can remember Howard Kendall in his second spell going for a player from Man U. Can't remember his bloody name now (dearie me!)

Anyway, we sold Peter Beardsley to partially fund the transfer and then the Board reneged. The Player then went to Aston Villa and did a brilliant job for them as Centre Forward then Centre Half. I think Howard resigned over the issue. Then we went further and further into a no mans land with just the brief glory of the FA Cup in 95. Our Club was instrumental in bringing about the Premier League. We were supposed to be one of the "Big Five" but I think our place at the table was more to do with our history rather than what investment we were prepared to put in to stay as an equal competitor to Arsenal, Man U, Spurs and "the other lot"

And so it went on until we were saved from relegation, twice, on the last game of the season.

Non of that history is likely to have sponsors drooling at the mouth in anticipation of EFC coming along and saying "Hitch your wagon to our star Bud!"

We've done a decent job during Moyes tenure and we've had a great season and an "interesting" season with Roberto.

Well then, I think that unless we get Goodison redeveloped or (if you are prepared to believe that this board actually mean what they say about a new ground in WHP...and can back their words with action, then we're in the vice like grip of financial constraints that will make it almost impossible to compete with clubs who are spending a hundred million or more each Summer.

My view is that Kenwright and Earl with probably Green in the background, are still looking for the "Big Payday" by having commercial partners form a sort of retail/sports complex only in Liverpool not in Kirkby.

I think then, the'd look to sell the club with a whacking big load of mazuma each.

If this recent history had happened to the club over the park, then the board would have been run out of town.

Looking as realistically as I can; to me the sensible way forward would be to redevelop GP like the other mob have done with their ground...incrementally. But I'm not holding my breath.

To a degree, they're living on their history... and we're starving on ours.

I cant remember the manager but was it Dion Dublin they tried to sign and were refused the money and he went on to score pretty consistently for whoever bought him and then moved to center half near the end of his career. I might be wrong but I believe it was Joe Royle.

It is the club's position.

He was a cracking player for a decade or so

http://swww.ToffeeWeb.com/season/07-08/comment/fan/article.asp?submissionID=4653

Everton are trying to push Kirky, wheel out a fella from Saville stadium consultants to say redevelopment can't be done & the Loop proposal was a non starter.

Trevor Skempton speaks as well.

This season has been a real disappointment for most of us, there is of course always the next one and if the team can replicate the sort of attitude that we saw on display on Sunday and add the right players in the summer who knows? Aim for the title Roberto and if we fall short we will be happy with a top 4 spot, unlikely perhaps but we have to believe that one season everything will fall into place for us.

Exactly!! There's 6 teams that are trying to buy their way into the CL places and 3 of them are not going to make it, let's see how long they can keep throwing money down the well. I suspect it won't bother Chelsea and City, possibly United, but the others will struggle.

What he really means is that nobody will give him 'free' money to redevelop so the board will have to put their hands in their own pockets, but with a new stadium they can get grants and enabling partners so that it's "effectively free".

That Park End Plaza was going to be a 4 storey building with conference facilities, corporate facilities, museum, offices, restaurants, shops, etc. for ٧mn. That would require a high level of interior finishings, lighting, services etc. which a new stand would not. OK it would still require corporate facilities and offices if done right so a ballpark figure of 㾻 mill should be enough to redevelop the Park End stand. Surely we can spare that from the increased TV money (effectively free money!) without the board having to spend a penny of their own money? Even 㿀mn to increase capacity and corporate revenue?

Joe Royle wanted to sign Tore Andre Flo and another Norwegian player Claus Eftevaag but was refused the funds by P Johnson and after that he resigned. Flo then signed for Chelsea and we know what his form was like there.

My memory has not got better — I had to look it up.

13 years not enough time to figure out what's going on?

Anything is doable from a construction point of view, but the other main factor (cost of finance) is probably why the Club say a renovation is not doable.

Anyway! Erik (#84) makes interesting points regarding the Park End proposed development and then the subsequent view of the club regarding the cost of developing the ground. That development seemed odd to me. To spend around 㾶 million on offices etc, when the Club had made statements to say their only option was to build a new ground, seems a waste of money. and effectively would stop us increasing the crowd capacity at the Park End.

My view is that we could have started (and still could start) developing the Park End and then the rest of the ground; but I agree with Erik, that plan of action doesnÂ’t suit the BoardÂ’s vision of a Brand New Ground... paid for by someone else.

Spurs, Chelsea, United, the Shite, Arsenal, even the likes of Aston Villa and West Ham have all been spotted over the years, yet our stuff only appears to be available on-line or in selected outlets. That in no way helps to raise our revenue or our profile and, in this day and age, is a disgrace.

I think what Lyndon meant was that the club only Â’sellÂ’ merchandise to the match-going fans and fail to grow their revenues by catering to the fans who donÂ’t or canÂ’t attend Goodison regularly. In other words, they are only prepared to preach to the converted and fail to attract new Â’customersÂ’ outside of that group.

ItÂ’s the easiest and cheapest option which appears to be the mantra of the club in recent decades.

I currently live in Ireland, and there are a surprisingly high amount of blues over here, but ALL of them had to buy their shirts/whatever online or in the club shops, as opposed to the myriad of idiots who can stroll into any sports shop and pick up whatever shirt they fancy wearing this week... Poor vision from the commercial department.

Just one small example. The Beatles museum in the Albert Dock, is now linked to LFC because they have set up an arrangement that the Tour of the City bus ride now incorporates a trip round their ground.

So, in the minds of people who come to the city and take the bus, the Beatles story and the cityÂ’s story are both now linked up with LFCÂ’s.

ThereÂ’s loads more opportunities missed. When I used to work in town and got the train in, before the start of the season, for years a lot of the adverts on the way up via the escalator, were of the Reds' new kit available. We were advertising season tickets for sale! What kind of message does that send out?

At Christmas time, the same amount of Ads (and plenty more round town) were advertising the gifts available from the their shops. I didnÂ’t see one of ours.

So if thatÂ’s the case in Liverpool, Neil, no wonder you have trouble finding EFC items where you live.

A good point lad and we can only hope this club takes notice.

The Everton result came over the tannoy and I was so relieved, I turned to the bloke next to me and said "IÂ’m an Evertonian, that result keeps us up". He looked at me blankly and muttered something unintelligible... he was Norwegian! (He probably supports the RS now.)

We won 3-0 against Man Utd – think about the goals carefully: we won’t get many like that again... certainly not in one match, and basically all’s well with the world. Roberto’s got his mojo back, Bill’s running the ship soundly and stop worrying, next season will be great, we’ll challenge for the Champions League.

Utter Balderdash! WeÂ’ll still have an out-of-date ground with no prospects to move, Everton will still be badly marketed and weÂ’ll still be a selling club, rather than a buying club. The KingsÂ’ Dock fiasco should have been the end of this board; until they stop treading water (and I think theyÂ’re drowning not waving), weÂ’ll remain a second class club.

I too go back to the fifties and remember being the best club around in the sixties and eighties. IÂ’m unhappy that our motto is totally ignored by the board who try merely to get by and have no concept of the best or even the adequate.

Â’Brand new Ground... paid for by someone else.Â’

As soon as I read that comment, the mist cleared for me. IÂ’ve now belatedly caught up with everyone else.

This inept (I would like to use a more expletive word) board should hang their dithering heads in shame at what has become of our club.

I decided to look it up to remind myself who got the goals for them that day, and found this piece of TV_Gold

On the day, the Chelsea fans around me were just interested in winning the game, and I didnÂ’t pick up any talk of us. Of course, it wasnÂ’t the sort of place to advertise oneÂ’s allegiances! I just looked at the game and remembered that Bolton had a few chances in the first half.

I remember Vialli being different class for them, and was still on pins as they didnÂ’t get the second goal until the last minute. De Matteo. Days before mobile phones, when you waited for information in the ground... more exciting back then.

My daughter is a Newcastle fan and she can get stuff on major online sites here and I canÂ’t get anything. I wonder what the untapped potential of the American market is for Everton in numbers? I donÂ’t know but the problem is I am willing to bet the Board and BK donÂ’t know either.

Lyndon, What a great series you have constructed. Thank you and I look forward to the next installment and the commentary on it.

I was particularly drawn to where you speak about Sir Philip Green and Robert Earl.

Kristian #1 asks a few questions about Robert Earl which beg answers? But Sir Philip? what's going on there?

I donÂ’t understand their continued involvement. With a little investment they would surely increase the value of their asset. No?

Anybody?

Unfortunately the PL/CL have almost locked in the success of an elite group of clubs. A few years earlier and we might have been part of that group. Given the prize money and exposure, the success of the elite clubs is almost self-perpetuating. Trying to break into that group (for any other club) is extremely difficult unless you have a billionaire buyer.

Not saying that we couldnÂ’t do some things better but overall I donÂ’t believe that growing the club's commercial revenue (substantially) is as easy as some people think. Walk into any sports shop around the world and you will generally only find shirts from the elite PL/Euro clubs. Shops donÂ’t stock Everton (or other clubs) because there is little or no market. Similarly, our corporate money and sponsorship is hard to grow for the same reason. ItÂ’s not personal, itÂ’s business.

The best way to grow our brand is through success on the pitch over a long period (not just a one-off Champions League qualification) and that generally requires large amounts of money. Our board doesnÂ’t have that money and, as far as I have seen, there is no Billionaire that wants to take us over. So, our only real option is to grow organically through developing young talent and buying shrewdly on the transfer market. That is generally what the club seems to be doing but obviously it is a long-term project and not the silver bullet that so many crave.

Even an extra ٠-3m a year would allow was to do things like invest more in the academy, pay down debt, eventually buy Finch Farm or sign an extra player or two for the first team. It wouldnÂ’t change the world in a day but you have to ask: Why, for an established Premier League side, our commercial revenue is so poor? ٠-3m a year extra soon builds up fast over a number of years.

Also saying Liverpool is a poor city doesn’t wash when you have Sunderland and Birmingham as examples and the league being a massive global brand – the average fan in China, Thailand, Angola, Tanzania etc could barely tell you where London was on a map of England, nevermind Liverpool. The CL clubs obviously have more pulling power but our deals with Kitbag, Chang and others are very poor.

We had at one point at Everton the most popular footballer in South Africa, the most popular footballer in Australia and one of the most popular in the USA – I have not heard of anything meaningful that the club did to try to use this to our advantage at time.

ItÂ’s not easy to increase sponsorship but there are people at the club whose job it is to do so and imo they are failing badly when we compare ourselves to the rest.

New Click and Collect Service

Hope that the merchandise will be in stock and available rather than the items being listed as sold out, unavailable, or back-ordered. League safety, an unbeaten streak, and now a hint of business sense too and it isnÂ’t even my birthday!

I canÂ’t recall exactly what happened, but was on the lines of fees being agreed as part of a double deal, but then one of the players changed his mind about joining us.
Royle wanted to still buy Flo but his price had been artificially inflated and Johnson refused to pay it.

I think in the end he left under the usual nonsense of ""mutual consent", he was dismissed because basically Peter Johnson wasnÂ’t happy with the way Joe was performing, and to be honest I could understand that.

TOTTENHAM: LondonÂ’s version of us (?), but with much more business savvy. Still buoyant despite wasting £££ on shite under-performers. About to go up several notches with bigger ground etc, but they are serial under-performers.

ASTON VILLA: Bagged a sugar daddy (Lerner), messed up with a poor choice of manager (Lambert) but will find another level if they win the FA Cup under Sherwood. Prospects really quite good.... decent stadium to boot. Bad shit for four fifths of the season though.

MAN CITY: Shit, most definitely, happened for them: Free stadium, shining bauble polished up by the astute Mr Bernstein and Manchester City Council, attracts men in white robes with heap big money... Rest is history. East Manchester regenerated, whole new perspective on what club/community are about.

WEST HAM: Shit is happening as we speak... As with MCFC, they have nabbed a cheapo/free relocation option and, with the fragrant Ms Brady at the helm, have delivered affordable ticketing to grow the fan base. Leyton Orient are doomed, but the Hammers will grow the fan base by 10k in no time at all as they stride imperiously around rival- free and populous East London.

That’s my take: I say this not because I think EFC are to struggle ad infinitum, but because we are a club that simply has not moved on, due to many factors – some beyond the board’s control; some not. In my book, we need to look at peer clubs like the ones I’ve mentioned, not the likes of Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea. If we had not saved our worst team performance (and tactics) of the season for the Kiev game, we might now be in a position of wooing prospective buyers which Bill seems to be struggling to find.

So, yes, Lyndon, "treading water". Someone pull the plug.

As far as IÂ’m concerned, being two points above the relegation zone (having played a game more), being up for sale with no sign of an imminent takeover, and a number of top players due to leave at the end of the season (Vlaar out of contract, CleverleyÂ’s loan ending, Benteke looking likely to move on) are hardly the signs of a club in better health than ourselves.

IÂ’m also not convinced that West Ham will magically find extra fans. ItÂ’s one thing getting people in while the new stadium is a shiny novelty, but itÂ’s not easy to keep an extra 10k fans when youÂ’re just hovering in mid-table. Just look at clubs like Stoke, Wigan and Hull. You see a sharp spike in their attendances when they first come into the Premier League, but when it all becomes a bit more mundane, the attendances drop by an average of 1k or so. WiganÂ’s had dropped by about 4k by the time theyÂ’d spent a few seasons in the league.

If fans suddenly decide they support a team when theyÂ’re an adult (I donÂ’t include any of our overseas ToffeeWebbers in this as there are understandable reasons for that) the chances are they wonÂ’t be a Â’hardcoreÂ’ fan, and will drift away eventually. Unless the team becomes successful that is.

LondonÂ’s transport system is excellent, and the proximity of a clubÂ’s ground is not necessarily an important factor in whether you support them. I think you can get from Stratford to Tottenham or Arsenal in about 15 minutes so itÂ’s not like theyÂ’ll be the only team in the area. IÂ’d be more concerned that moving out of their natural habitat (where supporting West Ham is a sign of being a proper Â’eastenderÂ’) may cause them to lose some of their core support.