Everton, That...

"It’s the hope I can’t stand".

Howard while a good shot stopper is a liability with his poor decision making and all the good work Moyes did defensively has now completely eroded.

Martinez’s obsession with possession is infuriating. Far too slow build up with players like Distin who shit themselves whenever they get the ball under pressure looking totally misused

I haven’t seen the game yet so can’t comment on that but my other point is I’m not comfortable at all with that huge mural of Martinez with the ’solo le mejor’ quote up on the side of the main stand, unwise decision if you ask me. He’s been manager for just one season, yes it was a good season but FFS did we ever do the same for Howard Kendall? Don’t get me wrong I’m a big Martinez fan but that did not need to happen especially if things go tits up.

Just look at the last 10 minutes to see how we should have been moving the ball forward quicker and penetrating their defence. We should be doing that for the whole of the first half and then sittng back and relaxing when weÂ’ve got 3 on the score board.

Roberto, talks about us as if were Barcelona, I just canÂ’t fathom what he is watching on the pitch. What is he seeing that were not?

The German game good result but in the second half they pounded us. 15 attempts on our goal, apart from 3 daft free kicks down to Naismith. That meant they penetrated our defence 12 times (the ball got through to Howard). I know that is what he is there for as our last line of defence, but isnÂ’t it worrying that he had to cope with so much, without defensive support?

One thing's for sure, it had better be a more direct & controlled team than the eleven who wore the Blue shirt yesterday, let's sort out that 20 passes to get over the halfway line.

Last season's performance away resembled yesterday's in decision making. Roberto needs to wise up, & the players certainly do. But I won't hold my breath.

This game is really simple to analyse unless you think Howard and Osman should not have started.

I welcome the fans' high standards they expect of Martinez but where was this level of criticism when Moyes was in charge?

Would like to see Besic in the team at Anfield.

Tim Howard and Osman must take much of the responsibility for a yesterday's descent in to a fiasco! But one thing you can be guaranteed as an Evertonian: when your team is given an opportunity to step up to the plate - such as defeating a team like Crystal Paalce to go 5th and above Liverpool - they will invariably let you down!

After getting back from the game yesterday I sought some solace in watching Leicester beat Man U. One thing that was evident was that they did it by always passing forward and hardy ever sideways and never backwards!

Roberto needs to absorb for him a new concept – it's goals that win games, not possession! I can even live with the frustratingly pedantic passing around at the back and in midfield for so much of the game but what is driving me mad is that we then attack with the same lethargic pace.

If we're keeping possession with the intention to probe for an attacking opportunity surely when the time come to go forward Roberto needs to instil in the team that we have to to do so with speed (and precision). Instead we carry the same pedantic possession-keeping tempo in to attack which means teams are given the time to get organised in defence.

If we don't up our game in this respect we can expect nothing this season.

Week-in & week-out, we are handing games on a plate to opponents. Palace didn’t beat Everton – we beat ourselves. We are in a period when, every time we make a mistake, it’s punished. It’s now getting to a point were we need to score 3 or more goals a game to get a sniff of a win.

ItÂ’s time to shed the nice guy approach as well. We donÂ’t have any nasty bastards in the squad. We lack leadership on the field because all the players are good guys.

Baines cost us a win against Arsenal last month because he stayed on his feet in the box when twice clipped. We were 2-0 up at the time and a penalty at that moment would’ve sealed the deal. As it was, Arsenal got away with it and snatched a 2-2 draw. Too nice and too honest... How many Arsenal players would’ve stayed on their feet after being tripped in the box? None – that’s how many.

I donÂ’t get all this slagging of Martinez for the shambolic on-field mistakes players are making. It wasnÂ’t Roberto telling Tim Howard to do his best Superman impression for one of the Palace goals, was it? Did Bobby instruct Leon Osman to fuck about with the ball on the edge of his own box?Where have the legendary quick feet gone, Leon?

ItÂ’s not going to be pretty next Saturday at Anfield. I am dreading it. I am not going and I am not watching either. I canÂ’t take any more. After all these years, I have given up the fight were derby matches are concerned.

When we get battered at the weekend, which we will do, please donÂ’t blame Roberto Martinez as it has happened throughout my entire life. Even during the Kendall era, we got twatted by them when it mattered.

Only one man ever really believed we could beat the Shite every time we played them. Can we get Joe Royle back just for derby games? I think Big Joe was unbeaten in derbies as Everton manager including a win over at their place. JoeÂ’s teams were the only ones I can remember who were never scared of those twats...

We aren’t cohesive, the players look unsure of their jobs. There is doubt and hesitation everywhere.

This isn’t a defensive blip its a systemic malaise and our established senior pro’s are going to take this awful defensive record plus their mental scarring to Anfield.

I thought we were awful in the second half against in midweek and the scoreline was no reflection on the game.

We are all over the place. Its not a blip, we have not lost our "defensive intensity".

We are a shambles. We are badly organised, ill disciplined, too open, too gung ho and playing without responsibilty.

The players love playing for him, but thats because we don’t do any dirty work anymore.

We have good players in the outfield back 6. Currently whatever we are doing it isn’t working. Team shape has gone, defensively we are embarrassing.

I agree that the amount of crab passing in the first and second third of the pitch is wasteful (at best) and oftentimes downright dangerous when we play against a team that presses up on the back 4. Not looking to revert to the hoofball of days gone by but we should be able to adjust and become more direct when the situation calls for it. Best defense is good offence and all that.

Granted palace didn't play midweek but our players still had 3 days to recover from the EL game so I don't subscribe to that as any sort of excuse, (Arsenal travelled to Dortmund midweek but still stuffed Villa away 3-0 with pretty much the same side that played midweek, and they had to travel to Germany).

Reviewing the game, we seemed to be comfortable for the first half an hour until Howard gave the penalty away, running out miles from his goal when there were already two defenders dealing with the threat. Then came his clanger for the second and we were chasing the game from then on. The third was a really terrible bit of play from Osman - I'd be annoyed but would allow a youngster to make a mistake like that, but for a pro with 10+ years of top flight experience to get caught out like that near the box is unforgivable.

However, even at 3-1 we almost came back. Not sure how you can blame the manager for the errors really, other than he needs to think about changing the personel. It's been said umpteen times on TW but Osman should not be starting anymore - he just doesn't have the engine. Was impressed with the pace of Atsu though, he's a bit raw but there's a lot of potential there.

Really really hope Coleman will be back for the Derby as Stones is not a RB and I'm not confident Hibbo will be able to do a job given his lack of pace. Stones needs to be given a run at CB now imo, whether its Jags or Distin next to him I'm really not too fussed. The Stones/Distin pairing did quite well last year when Jags was injured, however cannot see RM dropping Jags given he's skipper.

Gibbo and Besic need to be given more minutes at some point, would probably start both of them against Swansea and keep Barry and McCarthy fresh. Baines also needs to be rested against Swansea - give Garbut a run out (maybe Oviedo might be fit enough for the bench - which would be a big boost).

Keep the faith blues, its only 5 games in and no one is leaving us behind (yet) so we still have all to play for.

(Think RB is our issue area at the moment, if Coleman's out we're really weak there.)

When he first came in the defence was not the priority, he focused on the midfield and attack and has since brought in no less than 3 senior strikers and 4 midfielders on permanent contracts, getting rid of a lot of deadwood in the process.

Other than a true creative no.10, I think we're fine in midfield and attack. He'll now be able to focus on improving the defence in the next coupld of windows and this will hopefully include getting a decent RB as cover for Coleman and a new (decent) CB to go in front of Distin and Alcaraz in the pecking order - here's hoping anyway..

That said, this Palace result had a lot to do with our general defensive trend this season, which was just as apparent on Thursday, but went unpunished. We simply cannot give away so much at the back. It's something I feared last season, as I felt that in many games we had the look of conceding but didn't. (I wrongly expected us to concede more than we did last season.)

At the start of the season, I stated I had a real fear about Martinez: his ability to set up teams defensively. I have no doubt about his ability to get teams attacking, but will him, and his coaching staff, manage to maintain our defensive game? Martinez's defence was poor at Wigan, as were his defensive acquisitions, and I personally feel that last season's defensive performances were a legacy of the Moyes era. We've got good defenders, and they have no excuses for conceding 13 goals in 5 Premier League games (3 of those at home).

Few managers manage to combine effective defensive and attacking play. If we are going to be successful under Martinez, we must get the defence right, especially because we have so many gifted defenders and two superb defensive-minded midfielders.

But hang on....

How about some of his piss-poor substitutions this season? Who is to blame for them?

How about the system where the defenders are encouraged to piss around at the back which leads to mistakes? Who told them to do this?

How about the fact that he picks Osman and refuses to bring him off (something you used to give the last fella dog's abuse for)? Is he forced to select him?

How about his inability to adopt the system in games even when it is clearly failing? Is this beyond a man paid millions of pounds a year?

How about him making too many changes to the starting line up yesterday? Was someone else forcing him to do this?

Where I would criticise Martinez is the general vulnerability around the team, the lack of genuine strong characters, the lack of leadership and most of all, the lack of cohesion in the team. Most of the time, these players are good enough to beat most teams in this league, but we'll need to toughen up if we're going to make progress.

I'll echo my summer plea for a good keeper and centre back to partner Stones.

Moyes did it so many times in cup matches and we'd get beaten and we would all say that the team should have been good enough to beat x, y and z.

However, I would wager a decent wedge that the team that played Thursday WOULD have beaten Palace. Impossible to prove, I know, but I feel they would have been too much and there wouldn't have been such a difference in play up top.

Saying that - his players are letting him down as individuals, so he has to be ruthless enough to sell them, or replace them with other squad members. Simple enough for me.

Read a good one today; We are a carnival up front, and a circus at the back. True.

2: Why put back together a defensive partnership that has now conceded 13 goals when Stones and Jags where playing so well as a unit?

3: Why is there such a need for rotation, especially in the Premier League? I can understand doing it for the FA Cup and the League Cup but never the Premier League.

We as fans have not played at the highest level or got Uefa badges BUT we have watched football for decades between us and we collectively know when a side is not happy with or technically good enough to play a certain way — and this team can’t play well when we are pressed high up the field, especially the defence.

Regards
Helen

Yes, you guessed it. McCarthy stepped up for the freekick.......and belted it 25 yards backwards to Jagielka who was in our own half.

Understandable if we were !-0 up with 5 minutes to go, but to do it in the first 15 minutes at home is a total disgrace. What's going on?

Pass it short and then ultimately lose the ball. Not one cross in the box from a free kick close to the box all season

You used to slaughter Moyes for even considering playing Osman.

So by the same token Martinez is as culpable or maybe worse seeing as he (Osman) is 12 months older and therefore 12 months shitter.

I acknowledge that Wolfsburg are a good team but, thus far, we are not able to control and shutdown a game. I was there for the Arsenal game and as soon as they scored the first you knew that a second was coming; at the end, the final whistle was a relief.

In my opinion, suddenly we are playing far too deep and rely on hitting teams on the break, which is okay away from home to the bigger teams, but I donÂ’t think that we should be adopting this approach at home.

Now we have a manager who persists with players who are making errors on a regular basis . . .yet according to some it isn't his fault.

So who's fault is it ? if the defenders are good enough, what sort of coaching is making us a laughing stock and if they are not good enough why are they still playing ? Martinez's contribution to our defence is to sign a crock from wigan and a goalkeeper who nobody trusts.

Colin

You are right, No manager sends his players out to make stupid mistakes, but if they keep making them, does it not become a "stupid mistake" to keep sending them out ?

The defence is absolutely shocking, Jags, Distin and Howard trying to play Barcelona style football from the back is going to give me a heart attack one of these days, I love wee Bobby's positivity but now the honeymoon is over and we need to get into the muck and bullets at the back, we've loved the Bobby's brown shoes, now he needs to use them brown shoes to kick some backsides and get this lot "back to basics".

Anyone willing to pay 㿞 to sit at Anfield and potentially see another defensive calamity inspired drubbing needs awarding a medal for bravery alone. This one has me worried, very worried. Again Liverpool will be there for the taking but watch us roll over (as always) for them and take a bad hammering again.

Just can't believe they've went and frigging well put this derby on during the Ryder Cup weekend, at least there's that to turn over to if it gets like the last visit to that place.

It's so frustrating waiting to see an Everton team turn over a less than inspiring Liverpool side at Anfield, Christ we don't even kick them about like we used to, frig the respect and just get into them and harry / rough them up like they do to us.

Once a big fan of Roberto, now becoming disillusioned, as Tony said, this lot we've got aren't up to the Barcelona style of football. I wouldn't drive a Ford Mondeo around like a Formula 1 car, it's about knowing your limits and getting the best out of what you've got.

We're not world beaters so we need to be organised, disciplined, fit and determined before it even starts on the pitch. Show them a few videos of the Dogs of War suring Joe Royle's time to show them how it was done.

I would argue that he is sending players out to make mistakes, Tony, because by trying to play a tika-taka system at the back with players like Howard, Distin and Jags... well, that is going to end only one way!

Those fuckers can wait because IÂ’m sure we will have our day with them soon enough. But, however derby matches make you feel please donÂ’t give up on The Toffees!

Three away games await that will shape the entire season. Lose all and I genuinely think playing massive catch up until January will condemn us to a disappointing season. Win all three and who knows. But honestly I can't see it happening unless Martinez makes a bold decision to start his very best 11 available every game and look to sub three earlier than usual to combat tiredness, though why I'm saying that in September has more to do with a stupidly mismanaged pre season and dire fitness levels than squad rotation issues.

Decide on the best team, stick with it, and frankly if we can beat Swansea and grab two draws after that I will be a happy guy and steadying things now will pay off later. Still, it was great that we didn't need to strengthen the defence before the window closed !

That is appaling and should have the manager scurrying for solutions.

Instead its getting worse.

Dead right... We might not have our badges but itÂ’s not to say we the people/supporters canÂ’t see the woods from the trees.