Blues hold on for precious win

One minute, "McCarthy is fully fit" — then, the next, he's not even in the squad! If he was fully fit, then surely he could have started from the bench.

Probably a load of nonsense, but could there be more to him not being included in the squad.........???

(I suspect that RM didn't sub RB against WBA to prevent the possibility of hearing the lad being jeered or even boo'ed by the few few morons).

Thinking positively, should things go well then RB can be brought on later in front of the staunch away fans who'll give him a rousing reception, just what he needs. I would have far preferred Oviedo starting in place of McGeady.

So much for all the McCarthy is ready talk....... I'd rather wait for him be absolutely 100%, so no phoney bench position either!

Sorry to be a pessimist but it's what watching us this year has done to me, fingers crossed we pull it out the bag but I've said that too many times lately it's the hope that kill's you!

I hope he keeps it tight and counter's today no overplaying it, a few diagonal ball's for Lukaku to chase and we can do these!

He has suffered a bit from being played out of position out wide but I am looking forward to seeing how he does today without Barkley in the side.

PLEASE, PLEASE, MARTINEZ — FUCK OFF NOW!!!

Onwards and upwards to the derby. We need to play better but I'm smiling tonight.

COYB!!

I only saw the second half, very solid at the back but created very little.

Lukaku was incredibly bad from the half I saw, once again his heading, touch and passing was terrible.

Kone showed more in 3 minutes than Lukaku in the whole second half. Naismith making a nuisance of himself as usual and won a few crucial free kicks.

A win is a win and hopefully we can build on this.

Keeping a clean sheet, also important; hopefully this can be taken into the derby.

Apart from the goal today, I thought Lukaku was poor, desperately poor! There were many times where he could've relieved the pressure by holding the ball up and he was unable to do so. His first touch was abysmal (as usual). His all round contribution was just lacklustre. I can't recall him once winning a header either.

McGeady was frustrating as usual... but I think most of the players but in a real shift today which is refreshing; hopefully, the quality will improve with the results.

The only positive to come out of it is the three points. Hope people are not thinking a performance like that was a Get out of Jail Free card for the manager.

Not good enough for Everton Football Club but why expect any different when the fools masquerading as EFC treat the fans with contempt and downright hostility?

A scrapping performance with a display of commitment. Not a performance to terrify Chelsea or Man City, but most importantly not a performance to leave me terrified.

Mirallas can fuck off if we can get some cash with Lennon it would be better than seeing that loser on the pitch.

Once we get to 40 points, then we can start to talk about performances; till then, 1-0 is an excellent performance. 14 points to go and then build from there.

You sound almost disappointed we won!

What the hell was McGeady doing in the final minutes! Did he really think he could score from there? Kone was in the box, ffs!

I'm a bit worried Robles seems glued to his line all too often.

Anyway time to move the sofa away from the wall for next week!

The difference today was that Mirallas and McGeady stuck more to the wings than Naismith, Eto'o or Barkley... although I'd like to see Mirallas and McGeady stay out wide even more often than they do.

It was inevitable this team would attempt to sit on a 1-goal lead. I don't think that comes from Martinez, but something we've done for years and with the team having no confidence at all, something which is understandable. Hate it myself, but until we get confidence back I don't think we're going to see us chase 2 or 3.

On the plus side, a clean sheet, another solid performance by Robles, saving everything that came at him and doing a better job than Howard at dominating the box, to catch the many high balls that were pumped in. I'm also far less worried about relegation than I was 3 hours ago.

Jags and Stones played well and Kone showed some great ability when he came on at the end. I think I would like to see him start against the RS, or play alongside Lukaku as a two which would maybe help Lukaku improve his own game. Although Lukaku wasn't great, he worked hard and I think a lot of the time he had no support, with Naismith playing too far away from him.

Anyway, it's a win... let's try and get a few more under our belt! COYB

All I care about in our position is the result. The 3 points today and other results takes the pressure off for our challenging forthcoming fixtures.

We now have some breathing space.

AWFUL performance, but as I say it’s the result that counts. Give me 5 more of those this season and the same result and I’ll take it now.

The only change next week maybe Kone & McCarthy for Naismith and McGeady.

Robles
Coleman Stones Jagielka Baines
McCarthy Barry Besic
Mirallas Kone Lukaku

The Redshite are on fire at the moment, looking forward to next week.

Excellent work by Besic and Barry too.

Lukaku didn't look worth 𧴜 – never mind 𧴜 million.

Robles looked a little shaky initially but overall held some crosses really well.

Still not convinced we don't need another GK though...

One swallow doesn't make a summer but it's a start.

We'll be fine.

Sturridge back for Liverpool today and already he has scored? Everton's defence have got to be at there best next week.

Coleman was an improvement on what he has been doing, so hopefully he will continue in that direction.

Anyway, 3 points. Hope it gives us the confidence to play quicker football. I won't be watching next week though. Think I'll take the kids out.

MotM – Besic or Jagielka.

Not as nerve-shedding next time though.

Finally Martinez played a team with some balance as well.

I actually thought Robles had a good game and is slowly growing in confidence with another assured display. Howard should not walk back into the side.

There was a plan which was to stick 10 men behind the ball and tell the opposition to break us down, which they didn't and where possible nick one, which we did. RM has scared me recently but today seems to be an indication of a Plan B: KITANO....

Still, not looking forward to next weekend.

Ajay@30, Can I ask why would you drop Naismith, I thought he had another good game today, far better than Lukaku.

Let's give credit for a win at a difficult ground and move on with a 5 game unbeaten run. Yes, there is plenty of work to do but it will take some time as the squad needs an overhaul to get rid of elderly players and inject energy and fight. Tonight we should be content with a vital win and hope for reinforcements and a fit Jimmy Mac for the derby.

Well done boys!

Overall, much better. One small criticism: Get the ball into the box quicker and we will score more goals... Sounds pretty obvious but SO important.

Hopefully we can get a decent finish to this season now, it's been awful to watch us play this season. But football is a game of margins, the difference between success and failure is not that big as it looks like sometimes.

The booing from the terraces has been embarrassing this season. Thank god that we have a chairman with balls to stick with his manager despite of that. Last season was our best since the 80s, nobody can ignore that.

I've never rated Howard as more than average – too slow to come off his line, terrible with high balls and he's about done as a Premier League 'keeper after this season's performances.

Robles was very good at West Ham, and he definitely isn't scared of coming for any crosses.

It would be an amazing buy if it turned out well, but I'll reserve judgement until I see him perform in a dozen games or more. He's only 24, which means there's plenty of improvement in him.

As long as we can get the 40 points or whatever we need asap, I'll be happy. I am not interested how we play or how we get them — as long as we do!

You go there week after bloody week watching the same useless shite and, if you want to boo these overpaid players, then you have every right! If they don't like it and it upsets them, well tough. We've been more upset this season than any of the players or management team – I can assure you of that.

And, regarding last season, well it's exactly that – last, gone, finished, forgotten. The only thing that matters out of this wasted season is that we survive. I'm sure everyone will say "Yes, we got relegated but we had a great season last year."

The time for philosophies and self-indulgence is over. He will know he is now on borrowed time. Half-a-dozen good wins will save his skin but stuttering towards narrow avoidance of the drop will see him gone before season's end.

Which is your money on?

On the contrary, John. It wasn't pretty and it was never going to be at a place like Palace but it was not "absolute crap".

But quite a bit has changed, in my opinion. We finally looked balanced again with two wingers (the first quarter of an hour aside), we defended well, we pressed them well as a unit, and we continue to look hard to beat.

That killer instinct in the final third is still missing but we won and, as you say, that is all that matters.

I’m absolutely made up with a 1-0 win at Palace, however scrappy, against a tough in-form team on a roll. Well done, Martinez, for changing things with a better balanced formation. I thought and we were more gutsy everywhere: on the pitch and off it with strong signs of a Plan B. So, well done lads – especially Jags, Besic, and Robles – and well done, Bobby Martinez.

I now feel that under his management style we'll never be more than mediocre. Cleadly I've no longer got the same faith that some on here still have.

How the hell are Chelsea and Man City top of the league?

Safety first and then the postmortem.

The spirit suggested better things to come. It was only my third live game this season, the other two were home games against Swansea and Hull, so you can see why I'm feeling charitable!

I thought the back four were superb despite not getting the greatest of protection from the 2 in midfield yet are constantly criticized throughout this report. Yes this was a Moyes-like win but considering the terrible pitch, blustery conditions and facing a team in red hot goalscoring form this was a very good victory as the elements didn't favour our brand of football.

What makes you think facing the shite will be a bloodbath? We played a better team in Man City the other week and held our own and we drew at Anfield so it sounds from this report that no credit should be given to the team today and is more opinion than fact based.

How many times did you hear that terrible drum and vociferous crowd today? Not many. This was a professional job from a team low on confidence and will increase moral going into next week's game. I for one am very happy tonight.

As long as we pull clear of the bottom 3 then maybe we will get to enjoy a good run in the Europa. There's no doubt that RM's philosophy/system seems to work better in Europe. Just as long as we don't come up against an English team, maybe we'll all have something to cheer come May.

Happy with the points today and hats off to the defence! And I can watch MotD for the first time in months.

4 wins as quickly as possible then concentrate on the Europa League? You never know!!!

Now concentrate on the next game.

Ignoring those who hype Martinez, this was a victory for he players, who dug in and ground out a result. Stones and Jags were men of the match, which again says much when we were only playing an injury hit, African nations ravaged, Palace.

So, after delivering an uninspiring performance after ten days of preparation, I'd say this does nothing to lift the question marks over Martinez. It does however show the grit of our lads, and I was proud to see the strength of the away support.

We now march on to the kopites, with a lame duck manager and a bankrupt philosophy. Today's result had little to do with Martinez, a man who needed to get an impressive performance in. I fear relying on the players to get us through, just like today, will not be good enough for a journey up the smelly hill. That may be his end. If not, I stand by my prediction; on 28 games we will have no more than 28 points.

Today we had one winger and one who can do a decent impression of one, hence we had a bit more play in the wide areas.

The upshot is I think it's fair to complain he has played square pegs in round holes which has ruined performances and results because we're playing too narrow, but often that has been because Martinez hasn't had fit decent quality pacy wingers....also something he is at fault for not sorting out in the summer.

Yes there was a period when Palace tore at us in the first half (they were at home and as yet unbeaten under their new manager) but I prefer to see it the same way as the TV commentator at the time...

Stones was near the penalty spot and there was a small group of players between him and Chamakh, who had the ball on the edge of the box. The Palace player moved one way and then dragged the ball back, making space for himself to his left to get a shot off. But 'lucky' for us Stones perceived the move in an instant and immediately moved to his right, and was able to block the shot as it came in. The ball cannoned off into touch (IIRC) and Robles raced out of his goal to hi-five Stones in celebration of the young lad's amazing good fortune to have been accidentally in the right place to stop the goal-bound shot!

The truth is, we scored a lucky goal and in the end we defended well enough to hang onto it but we hardly looked convincing at times and, going forward, we looked absolutely dreadful for most of the game.

Unusually it was McGeady who actually had the best moment of the game, as you will see if you actually read my report.

I call it as I see it. Always have, always will. No-one has said we played well. If you want a different story, there's always Roberto Martinez's wonderfully optimistic, phenomenally incredible post-match comments that might be more palatable for you.

Yes, I know, be thankful for small mercies. But this is what Martinez has reduced us to.

I'd go with:

Robles,
Coleman, Stones, Jagielka, Baines
McCarthy, Barry, Oviedo, Mirallas, Barkley, Kone with Lukaku coming on at 60 minute mark and Naismith and Besic coming on to finish 'em off.

Make us proud......

Give the man a chance and see if he can get us back to the form of the first two thirds of last season. If he can't then it may be time to reconsider but not yet. Howard Kendall's first stint looked hopeless until the Kevin Brock game and things then turned around but even that wasn't overnight.

Let's be thankful for 3 points and Roberto now has a huge challenge next week – I think he can do this but next week will be revealing one way or another I suspect!

Not fussed about the performance (couldn't really expect anything better given how low the players' confidecene must be). The 3 points gives us a useful cushion as we're going to be lucky to get more than 1 point from the next two games.

This win takes my faint relegation worry away. With the likes of Hull, QPR, Burnley and Leicester currently averaging less than a point a game, it looks like 35 points will be enough to stay up, nevermind 40. So only need another 9 points, which with 15 games left 'should' not be a problem. I predict we'll finish somewhere between 9th and 13th.

Needed a lucky/srappy win today - thank god we got it. Still not convinced RM is the answer but this 3 points pretty much guarantees that he'll be there 'till at least the end of this season.

Full steam ahead for the EL as the rest of the season is a write off.

Bring on the derby!

Not even a single shred of mixed emotions for me today, not one bit. We won, all that matters.

Yes, it was a horrible game; yes, I still want Martinez out... but, for me, an away win, however earned, gets him a week of respite from calling for dismissal (from me at least)... until the next game.

Absolutely delighted with the points, now for the Redshite and, if we can win, I wouldn't give a flying one how it was achieved; maybe we'll bring in a couple of players on Monday and that'll save our season.

Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 1

November 2014

Today was all about getting a result. Full stop. Team is desperate for something positive to build on; some element of momentum. Hopefully that is what today's result provides. Time will tell.

Are there still concerns and major work to do before any of us can truly say we'll be OK? Without a doubt. However, this is where we find ourselves at present and need to get behind the lads.

Different result. Thank Fuck!

Nobody who went to Palace was the least bit concerned about the performance. In the last 20 minutes, there was only one team likely to score and that was our team. Robles played well dealing with crosses but had little to do in the second half in terms of saving shots.

Palace have beaten some good sides recently but today struggled to penetrate our solid back line which was ably supported by Barry and Besic.

Palace are coming off a 6-game unbeaten streak, winning four games in a row, comeback wins against Southampton, Spurs and Burnley, a new manager, full of confidence... Yet we go there and beat them without conceding a goal.

What were we supposed to do? Go there and give them Germany/Brazil type pasting? Get a grip, FFS. Today was a fantastic result given our current situation!

I will celebrate every point but I will never praise Martinez for getting out of a situation that his ineptitude has caused.

The way we defended at times looked laughable. There were some incredibly lucky moments. That's what I saw anyway. But we did keep Palace from producing many decent chances for long periods of what was a pretty awful game. If that was good defending by Everton, so be it.

Of course, I was looking for them to go forward with purpose and intent... as for the pitch and the weather — weren't they the same for both sides? What sort of nonsense excuse is that?

Yes, I think next week could be a bloodbath for a variety of potential reasons: drunken fans could riot if things don't go well; Everton might finally find themselves and rip into Liverpool from the off, with a raucous Goodison roar behind them, and chalk up a fantastic victory, blood and guts littering the hallowed turf; or Liverpool, presently in good form, could tear us apart if we play like we did today...

Any outcome is possible, a number of which might fit the 'bloodbath' label. What have our results against Man City and Liverpool got to do with today's game? Of course the report is my opinion, but it's based on what happened on the field.

I thought the inane drumming was audible all through the game – what imbecilic mentality can sustain such nonsense? It was a good result from another poor display. I'm glad for you that you're happy. Some of us expect better from these players.

By the sound's of it Mirallas's head is elsewhere; he stunk today. I hope it's just a lack of fitness and we're all good for the derby next week.

Hopefully we'll send Slippy G home with bad memories from his last derby ever next week.

Firstly, we must accept that NO player (or MANAGER!!!) who is on the radar of the money clubs will come our way. Therefore we must take a chance on unproven injury-prone ’difficult’ players with baggage in the hope that they come good.

Secondly, we must hope to bring another Rooney or two through, tie them early to long contracts, and not sell them.

Finally we are going to have to take a punt on a manager (not necessarily Roberto, before I get shot down) who has new ideas and knows how to put them into place. A big ask, but otherwise we are going to be trolling among the likes of Southampton and West Ham till the cows come home, or at least till I pop my clogs.

With Moyes, we all knew we were never going to win anything, but equally we were never going to be relegated. Whoop de doo.......

I'm glad I was old enough to see and witness all of our success in the 80s, it was magic. I really hope the younger fans of today will get to experience that one day.

Yes, Lukaku looks awful in possession and it wasn't dominant, but who among us wouldn't have taken the unattractive win we were given?

Prettiest girl or not, we were the better team out there today, full stop. We pressed high and hard, deserved the win, took the points and a clean sheet – job done.

I just want a team I can be proud of... which can occasionally upset the odds and finish in the top 4 and win a odd trophy along the way. Yeah, I think most of us would be pretty content with that...

First things first, though: let's stuff the Redshite next week and secure our PL survival.

Hopefully, we keep this "defense first" outlook for the rest of the season. Might be boring, but we'll grind out the necessary points, so the conversation turns to what we have to do next season.

Speaking of grinding, let the RS come at us and hit em on the break. As well as they are doing right now, Suarez is gone. They can be had.

Big relief leaving the relegation worry behind.

I see Wolfsburg beat Bayern Munich 4-1 and are lying 2nd in the Bundesliga, what happened when we played them! And that's managed with the worst manager on earth, some would have you believe!

Not long ago Robles was total shite, and Kone was absolutely hopeless! McGeady the latest whipping boy, watch this space.

As for your last line; bang on. It was a good result from a very poor performance.

But let's not lose the context. It was against Palace. PALACE. P.A.L.A.C.E. Not Barca. Pardew and Palace. Injury hit, African nation hit, Palace. And our central defenders were the Men of the Match.

A useful three-points, but I stand by my prediction – on 28 games we will have a maximum 28 points. And then we will truly be in the shit.

Dreadful game between two poor sides. All that can really be taken from that is 3 points which could quite easily have been 1 point or less had Palace taken their chances. They were also missing Bolasie, their best player, so I didn't see much to get excited about.

McGeady was still woeful, as were others. Lukaku's finishing was poor. Especially the one that hit the side netting.

I would love to see anything but misery next week but I just can't. The RS looked really good on MotD and I'm not looking forward to the game at all. Why do they always get us when they are coming into form?

However, Lukaku was just awful. Mirallas was invisible. Kone did more in 4 minutes than these two did all game!

Then Martinez lauds Lukaku to the heavens in his post-match interview. Bizarre.

If anything, Michael, you were too effusive in your praise of calling our forward impetus 'limited'. Lukaku cannot play football, it is that simple. He isn't the second coming of Drogba but Brett Angell. First touch like a tackle.

We've upped the pace which is the main thing, and are playing more direct and with more pressure off the ball. It's still far from where I'd like us to be, but I can't deny it's an improvement.

Would I be saying this had Jag's clearance off the line occurred 0.1 seconds later? Probably not. It's the result that counts, and we should enjoy it at least for one night.

I'll take this outcome right now.

Just watched it back and can't believe how shocking Lukaku's touch was. He looks like a poor Sunday league player 90% of the time. I can't remember him being this bad the last two years, so hopefully it's that injury or lost confidence, which will hopefully fix itself before next season.

Naismith is a park player though, I just don't get why so many on here rate him. He tries hard, had a short purple patch and that's it. Hope they both notch next week to shut me up though.

I also watched the Chelsea – Man City game. Now that’s what I call entertainment: skill galore fast, incisive football, we look light years away.

Good posts as usual, although IÂ’m not convinced that Martinez is the man for us, but I can see this clown hanging on to his job, even if the Redshite twat us.

I also watched the Chelsea - Man City game. Now thatÂ’s what I call entertainment: skill galore, fast, incisive football... we look light-years away.

Good posts as usual, although IÂ’m not convinced that Martinez is the man for us, but I can see this clown hanging on to his job, even if the Redshite twat us.

I think there has been a lot of soul searching and my impression is that our defenders were hell bent on not making individual mistakes. I thought all four of them were trying very hard to get their own house in order, as individuals, they played well. Unfortunately, as MK points out, as a unit, it did get a bit Keystone Cops out there.

Biggest plus for me was hearing the severity of the bollockings Robles was giving out. He's been as timid as a Church Mouse, but he's beginning to feel he has earned the right to be № 1. More to come from this fella.

I have been a long-time critic of Martinez, but to deny him credit for this result is churlish in the extreme. Few (if any) managers have been under the sort of pressure he has faced recently and he'd have been murdered on every forum and radio station if we didn't win this.

I'm genuinely pleased for him. It may have been ugly, but the three points look beautiful to me.

I hope Besic is not dropped for the derby, as he offers fight and steel. If we can get some sort of cutting edge then we may get a result against a inform red shite team. But realistically I think we will get beat.

Oh and I thought yet again that the ref was suspect against Palace. Prove me wrong, Bobby, your job is safe with Billy in charge but you have lost the majority of the fans.

That being said, I'm really genuinely happy we won. I'd take that fairly fortunate 1-0 win over us playing like Brazil and drawing 4-4. We're in a relegation battle and all that matters is the 3 points.

Just think what the next couple of games would have looked like if we'd lost. Going into the derby with pressure on to win would be a nightmare, now a win would be a bonus and a draw far from the end of the world. Also the pressure should hopefully be off for the Chelsea game as we won't be so close to the relegation places.

I agree with the poster who said it's unrealistic to expect an immediate turnaround in fortunes. It's going to take time to get back to playing good football, and that's if everything goes our way which is hardly guaranteed. Hopefully regardless of what it means for Martinez, we're on the verge of a few decent results.

I think we may look back on this game at the end of the season and see how important a win this was. I would have taken a draw before the game, because a defeat, in my view, would have seen us swept into oblivion.

All I care about at the moment is that we steer clear of relegation. Fortunately, it appears to me that the players have decided to do something about it. As a result, my level of anxiety has dropped considerably.

Andy, fuck Liverpool (next week, I hope) post 88, is how I also see it, but I would lean more to the post by David Williams, when thinking about the future.

It wasn't great but when your on such a run as Everton's, the best you can usually hope for is a scruffy goal and a clean sheet. We got both yesterday, but the biggest thing for me, was that we weren't really hanging on, when the clock was ticking down.

When did he learn how to catch a ball?

We have seen enough to know, because the faults are in his judgement, his arrogance, his inability to see the basic problems in the team set up, and I fear his and the club's contempt for the supporters. But mostly his shortcomings as a manager. That is why he is employed. But he won't be sacked because the club don't have a winning mentality from the top down.

Everton in the Community, seems to be the one thing we do consistently well, and something to be very proud of. Whoever is behind it has done a wonderful job. It would be great if our club could really become The Peoples Club. COYB

Let's make no bones about it, a great result and if we were in the top 6 the thread would be so different. But we are not and Roberto still has a lot to do including how to get a result next week.

I get the downbeat vibe after last season and I believe a lot of that is down to the fact that Roberto set the bar high but some of the diatribe that is being posted is beyond me. You would genuinely think we were 3 points adrift at the bottom. We are supporters and we need to give the team some backing. Particularly next week because, if those red-nosed fuckers sense we are not behind the team, they will go for the jugular.

I think that Martinez may not quite be getting the carte blanche that he got at Wigan. The set of players he has now are used to better and may have finally told him so. Also, I think this Board is going to expect more than the one Dave Whelan led at Wigan.

The Everton Board are under pressure to get the finances together to pay for the new stadium and still have enough for day-to-day running expenses. That has always come through league position and Sky money as the Board is not willing to spend any of its own money. I wouldn't be surprised if the Board had a quiet word with Martinez.

No, the ineptitude of the report came from its inability to reflect what happened on the pitch thus my belief that the one-sided manner was clearly from someone who wants the manager out and that set the tone for the report rather than actual events.

How you watched that game and use adjectives like 'horrendous' and 'dreadful to describe our defending beggars belief? Even in the 15-min period where we were all over the place it was Stones and Jags invariably there to save the day. Anyone who hadn't seen the game would have thought are centre halves were poor through your account when conversely they were head and shoulders the 2 best players on the pitch.

The other main problem I had was that you suggested that we didn't deserve to win that game. You accused the boys of being 'lucky', 'fortuitous' and that they 'incredibly held out'. Once again this was completely inaccurate. For a team with 1 win in 13 we held our nerve well and while never pretty we controlled the game for large parts and if there was to be a 2nd goal it was far more likely to come from us as the longer the game the poorer we made them look. Your report showers them with plaudits but gives our boys little credit despite a valiant effort.

Michael with regards to me highlighting the pitch and conditions, I don't think they are an excuse but the reality of the day. You point out they were the same for both teams which is true but Palace are a direct team consisting of monsters like Sanogo, Chamakh, Murray, Ledley, Dann and Delaney whereas our game is based on possession football with players like Stones, Coleman, Baines, Mirallas and McGeady not served well by the prevailing elements. If you look at their good 15 min period – this was all caused by long hopeful punts using the wind and their physicality which resulted in mayhem in our box. We were reduced at times to whacking the ball up front as the pitch was so bad that it was tough to play out as normal or we would have been in trouble.

I thought it was clear what you meant by bloodbath and used those results just to highlight we have nothing to fear if we are on our game. If you weren't implying that we would get annihilated, I take that back but judging by the rest of the overly antagonistic summary towards the team, it's an obvious conclusion to make.

Finally I watched the Palace game when they beat Spurs and you couldn't hardly hear the commentators as their fans were so noisy it was such an amazing atmosphere. Against us we never let them build any momentum and it was our magnificent away fans who were dominant throughout the game. They were clearly frustrated and we kept them pretty quiet as their heroes became increasingly predictable and desperate on the pitch.

However, I've been shocked at just how solid Robles has looked when given a sustained run in the team and now I'm actually dreading the day when Howard is back in goal for us. Not something I'd have imagined saying a few months ago.

I wonder if selling Howard to the MLS is a good idea, especially while his stock over there is high on the back of his world-cup heroics. We could then get another keeper in to fight with Robles for the no 1 jersey.

Another Martinez signing who has been slated on these boards is Kone. Looks a top, top player to me if he can keep fit... and if he can stay fit for the rest of the season and put in the kind of shift that we've seen in his few appearances, I think I'd be happy to see him given a 12- or 24-month extension, perhaps with some sort of mitigation inserted in case he has any more long-term injury issues.

It's clear to see there is a quality striker in there. A few times he managed to get away and but for a heavy touch allowing the covering centre half to get in, he could've had a second.

Lukaku needs confidence and he needs the right kind of service and support to see the best of him. At the moment he isn't really getting a fat lot from those around him.

He didn't put the price tag on his head and yet he's our main goal threat with the pressure of trying to help us avoid relegation despite being only 21 years old. Not an easy task.

People should get behind all our players, especially the younger ones and especially when they can see the effort is being put in... and the time they need our support is when things are not going well.

ToffeeWeb always had an awkward reputation during the Moyes years. Many, especially on other forums, referred to it as being incredibly anti-Moyes.

It seems to me that a hard core anti-Moyes militant tendency very much saw Martinez's success, which was welcomed by all Evertonians, as validation of their anti-Moyes narrative. Yet, as the wheels fell off this season, it seems that those people seem to have entrenched, becoming more rabid with every legitimate question of Martinez. To many, this appears to go beyond support of the team, instead transcending into a bullying, absolutist attempt to constrain legitimate debate, all for the egotistical end of saying "I was right to say we should have got rid of Moyes."

Certainly, those of us with a differing view to a very vocal pro-'Bobby' lobby find ourselves subject to the most appalling abuse. That is, sadly, the norm here, though interestingly such abusers are easily defeated by even a cursory reference to the facts.

However, to reach the point where a match report is criticised as being 'anti-Martinez' shows how bizarre this forum is getting. The barracking, shrieking, cabal are taking us to a place where we should not be. Yes, yesterday was sub-standard. Yes, it was not the confidence building performance we truly needed. Yes, it was far from what we expected from a well-rested, well-prepared team. Yes, we made Palace look great, and yes, it is a sad state of affairs where Stones and Jags are our star men in such a fixture.

Finally, though, yes, you have every right to report a match as the majority saw it, and yes, you should not allow yourself to be cowed by a tiny minority of fans who have confused their loyalty by supporting a manager over our Club, which is, tellingly, something they didn't do with our last manager.

Keep asking the questions, Michael, and keep calling it as you see it. The truth will out, shortly.

Too much has been made of the penalty miss now, and we need to put it behind us. He's one of our best players.

"Few (if any) managers have been under the sort of pressure he has faced recently" - self-induced pressure mate.

Conor, Colin – I have to respectfully disagree with you, the report is accurate and adjectives such as 'horrendous' and 'fortuitous' are entirely merited where used. Perhaps the bar has been raised too high, not just by last season but the 4 preceding it where we didn't finish lower than 7th. The season before that, 8th. So, yeah, my bar has been raised somewhat over celebrating a 'fortuitous' win over Palace.

Brings me onto another point; how many people have described this as a Moyes-like win is beyond me. What do you mean? As in a Moyes win against the likes of Man City or Chelsea? I can't recall a Moyes team performing like that against Palace.

If Michael has an agenda, as you think, perhaps it is one that is merited. I watched the game and we were highly inept, could barely keep the ball. Defence was pretty good but let's be honest, we looked fragile at every cross and high ball put in, thank God Sanogo is about as good a header of the ball as Lukaku.

Criticism is required to improve anything on this planet, I realise that, but a little praise and positivity thrown in would not do any harm sometimes I think.

Things are not all black and white there's a hell of a lot of grey areas where football's concerned, reasons you can play poorly and win, play well and get stuffed.

There's no way we'll go down, at least that's in my opinion, we've still got the Europa to come in which we've not shaped so badly in up to now, maybe we can enjoy that.

Does Mirallas want to continue to play for us?

Might be a message here for those who think managers should be given time. Under Lambert Villa have finished 15th, 16th, and are currently 16th. Sometimes things don't get better no matter how much time the manager gets.

BTW Cleverly did sod all. I hope we've dropped our interest in him.

Ask them what odds they'll give you for CL qualification now, they'll probably invite you to name your own?

Showing him the lurve a bit will do no harm.

I also think as you suggest they do get their prices wrong sometimes, and 13/2 for us to get into the top 4 in any season is an extremely skinny price for me, I would need to be offered 14/1+ before I would consider backing us unless we were taken over by some mega rich Arab or the like.

1. How can any of the players have respect for him when he consistently picks McGeady over Oviedo/Mirallas? It really is a sackable offence in itself (I mean that seriously). The post-match interviewer was trying to get Rom to praise McGeady yesterday and he steadfastly (implicitly) refused to. No fellow player praises Mr Aiden McGeady. He embarrasses me.

2. I know Roberto has his own idiolect (like all of us), but the point about asking Evertonians to 'enjoy the three points [against Palace]' was very telling, in my view. Of course, it was a huge relief to win yesterday, and I personally felt as if we had won the Cup (I was wondering if we'd win another game this season – seriously), but the fact that he says that shows a real small-time mentality that betrays his pedigree (all lower leagues and survival fights in the PL). As Big Nev said: 'It's different at Everton'. I really don't know if Roberto gets that – and that could be the reason he might have to go sooner rather than later.

You have to ask yourself: who got it wrong this summer, The Odds Makers, or our Manager ?

Everything wrong with all the personal insults, skewed statistics, one-sided historical analysis and 'facts' that people are rushing to that 'prove' Martinez is the wrong man. The self-induced relegation hysteria, the mangling of the 'proper Evertonians' quote, all masking the fact that some people just don't like the man and would prefer a Mr Shouty-Sweary who will deliver the mid-table finish that Martinez will give us anyway.

If you don't like Martinez and want him out, point at the league table. That's all you need to do. Maybe suggest someone else that's done more than play for Everton years ago and has a hard-man image would be a good start for me.

I enjoy debating all things Martinez on here with a few people with opposing views to me who can recognise the good as well as the bad.

For me this debate is bigger than Martinez's future. It's whether we want the skilful, passing, attacking with a bit of edge Everton, or the post-Moyes one more heave of run, run, run, tackle, run, run Everton. We won't trouble the top four till we control and pass the ball better with pace, regardless of your personal antipathy towards one manager.

I want the manager we had last season. If we can't get him back, let's get someone else, but for me it's got to be someone with the best qualities of our current and last manager.

It's all about perception and it's great fun, as long as you don't pretend your perceptions are facts......

Best quote about the current state of affairs was Bet 365 last week, who offered me 4/11 for us staying up (low stakes only!) and 25/1 for relegation.

The bastards never take any chances, do they?

Your real point, of our finishing position the previous four years, is the big indictment against Martinez.

What Bill has to work out is whether last season was a one-off, this season is a one-off and how much he's prepared to kick Martinez's arse to build on last season.

Whoever replaces Martinez as manager will have to work with the reality that to get us further up the table will require more than doing what we've done the last few years. 6th to 4th is a lot more difficult than 15th to 6th/7th/8th.

We are Everton and don't feign and cheat like all the other 19 Premier League clubs (especially Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpol at the top), and I'm very proud of that.

We, as a club, embody values: one of them is not picking your favourites and playing a pointless, aimless possession game.

Roberto needs to re-find his mojo if he is to stay... and quick. We have been playing like relegation candidates, no question. Let's hope we're away from that unthinkable possibility now.

For me that's some revision right there.

In fact some of Moyes Everton teams had plenty of skill and precision (hence the Arsenal lite tag) but often there was no end product. I don't see Martinez's Everton as being much different. We have more possession yes but still lack penetration up top despite a record smashing spend on a striker.

Paul Dark, the fans were singing his song when Mirallas left the pitch yesterday. We need him more than he needs us, but only if he really wants to play for us though.

However, FYI, I never joined the Martinez Out cacophony, so I'd appreciate it if you could put a stop to that particular falsehood.

My 'agenda' if there is one, is to get a summary of the match up online as the game ends — not five or ten hours later. As such, it is primarily a description of the game (obviously as I see it), as it happened. It includes the goal, scored inside 3 mins... along with incidents from the rest of the game.

Admittedly, my 'agenda' (if I have one) is watching good attacking forward-moving joined-up football that goes for goal. For me, that's what the game is all about when Everton have the ball. I believe, incidentally FWIW, that coincides with the manager's much derided philosophy, does it not?

And from that aspect, I must fundamentally disagree with your mischaracterization of the match summary and "its inability to reflect what happened on the pitch". I challenge you to quote one thing I recorded that did not happen on the pitch.

By any analysis, the goal we scored was fortuitous. Lukaku knew very little about it — the ball ricocheting off his thigh and into the net. Yes, they all count; yes, he was at least in the right place... but it was the kind of luck that has not been going our way for most of the season.

It gave the team something to defend — not that our record is that great this season when we take the lead: 14 times this season... losing that lead 9 times. So you could understand some nervous consternation as to whether we could successfully defend that for the full 90+ minutes. Yes, we did in the end, while both teams came close to scoring — none closer than the superb effort by McGeady, the description of which you apparently failed to read.

Rather than this gratuitously biased and presumptuous nitpicking of my match summaries, I suggest perhaps you try actually writing one yourself?

As I posted the other day, Catterick was a miserable bugger who never had a word for supporters. Any comment about any aspect had to be dragged out of him as he let team performance/results speak for him.

All we can ever do is respect the manager in place for how his teams perform. When he has to speak – as they are now expected to – just tell it as it is with all those superlatives left on the dictionary where they belong.

Bullshit does not baffle Evertonian brains and liking the manager has got nothing to do with it!

His style of football was maddening and frustrating for many years. But in all fairness to the man, we did improve our ball retention towards the end of his seemingly endless tenure.

I don't like historical revisionism. The fact is, most of our games under him were horrible to watch. Just ask any of the commentators or pundits who had to watch them.

I am as thrilled as anyone that we got three points yesterday but, let's be honest, it was a really poor game (hence we were last on MotD), we created very little, struggled to retain possession and Lukaku was really terrible.

Hopefully it will give the lads some confidence and we can improve for next week.

Maybe those who disagree with the match summary would prefer to read the positive spin on the official Everton site, where everything always seems rosy.

For me I will continue to visit ToffeeWeb for a more balanced view.

In the old days, going to home game didn't cost much more than a few quid to get in, a few bob for a bag of chips, and even a programme, if you were feeling flush, and a few coppers for the bus home.

Now, if you go, it all costs so much more, and so, we all expect a lot more. This is magnified if you make a long journey and shell out lots of your hard-earned dosh.

We also get to see lots of games in their entirety, when in the past we may have just a few highlights on MotD. Therefore we have a greater picture of the whole.

So we all resent it when players don't appear to try, when players lack basic skills, when our manager makes strange decisions, and then fails to explain via the media, what he was trying to do, or what really happened.

The money in the game is so big, and the stakes are high, so with all these stars making so much money, we are less forgiving of any short-comings, and we expect a lot for our sacrifices. Also, the games are under the microscope and we expect regular information updates every day, and we can smell it a mile off if a manager is bullshitting us.

Yesterday, we got a valuable three points at a difficult place, and let's hope that the confidence improves for the derby and beyond. It is a step in the right direction but we all have a right to expect a lot from our team and our manager, and we have every right to criticise. Our manager told the media that Lukaku had been great in all aspects of his play, etc, etc. Lukaku scored and worked hard, but was far from perfect! A typical example of why people are losing respect for Martinez. Why couldn't he just say.."We defended well, rode our luck a bit and got our goal. We dug in and held on, and could have nicked another near the end."

Bob Heyward, very strange comments attributed to me of wanting Moyes out. I never once called for the previous manager's head and indeed thought he did a remarkable job at our club consistently over-achieving with limited resources. Just because I really like the present incumbent doesn't mean I disliked the former.

My criticism of Michael's report was me defending the performance of our team and I would have done so whoever was in charge.

It's often said on here that 'you can't polish a turd' so why is it that so many attempt the impossible?

Three points in the bag with a winner off Lukaku's knobhead in a game he stunk the place out. But in our plight, does it matter?

"I've been long enough in this league to understand how difficult it is to get to 40 points."

"We have 16 games to go and want to treat every one as a final."

So, it's not just the fans. It's the Manager.

As for the binary review of management options, i.e. 'Shouty Sweary' v 'Philosophy', well, it's just that, isn't it? Binary. As starters for ten, Galtier, de Jong or Koeman would all offer interesting half-way houses between Moyes and Martinez. To think that Martinez is the only way forward is itself to accept a false paradigm, that of Roberto or nothing.

Finally, I don't think anyone is advocating a Megson type, and if they did, I'd be the first to say 'no way'.

As I keep saying, Roberto had it in his hands, he recreated a School of Science, but then he messed it up for a thousand reasons that we've discussed on these boards already.

I know you think that relegation is not going to happen, but perhaps you need to look again. Try thinking on these four issues:

1: Our points average per game. The table doesn't lie, and as you said in your post, it's as objective a measuring tool as any. It's relegation form.

2: Of the games we have to play, we will defo' have trouble with six: Liverpool (H), Chelsea (A), Arsenal (A), Man Utd (H), West Ham (A), Spurs (H). That leaves us nine games to get 14-points, with Stoke (A), Swansea (A), Southampton (H) all offering other tricky tests. Remember, our season average is nine-points in nine games. Saturday helped, but believe me, it is going to be close... unless we get some sort of late season miracle (and have you seen any sign of that yet?)

3: Our squad is not filled with relegation scrappers. How will they if we start facing six-pointers? Do they have the grit? Some do, but will they all? Teams facing the drop need different skills to teams pushing for the top-six. Are those skills and managerial leadership there?

4: Strikers. Our manager looks like he's choosing not to strengthen, so we now have two recognised strikers. Most players experience a lay-off in the season. Howard, Coleman, Distin, Jagielka, Stones, Baines, McCarthy, Barkley, Pienaar and Mirallas (that's our entire first choice team) have all been out for a month-plus this year. Up to the time of this post, we're betting the farm on Lukaku and one of our most notorious sick-notes ever, Kone. Now, I hope they don't get injured, but if they do, and the balance of probability says they will, we have a very big problem.

You see, that's why I and a lot of other Evertonians, including the Manager, are taking this relegation issue seriously, and not just airily saying "Oh, we'll win our homes and few aways and Bob's your uncle."

Don't you believe a word of it, Paul. After 28 games, you'll see what trouble we're in, I'm afraid to say. That's why I, and many others feel that Bobby has to go.

And it's not about personality politics or anything so vain. It's just about our great Club; the one we all love.

I am by no means any where near to being a educated football man. But I have eyes and can be objective in watching a game. This season has been utter shite in both results and moreover in performance. I refuse to listen to or read anything the manager says now. Lukaku scored a goal, the rest of his game was poor. Kone showed us in the few minutes he was on how to hold the ball up. If, and itÂ’s a big Â’ifÂ’, Rom ever learns to control the ball when his back is against the goal, then he just might change my opinion of him.

He loses it more than he retains it basic stuff for a professional fuck knows what they do during the week, but to me he has only improved marginally when it comes to this side of his game.
Oh yes... he is only 21 – all is forgiven.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I advocate a 'philosophy' manager. I just want one who can organise a team and have them pass well and control the game with pace. Is that a philosophy? I don't really care. I'm only interested in philosophy when I'm reading books.

I'm not convinced that replacing Martinez with my original and all-time Everton hero will help us, when he's been out of the game so long. Neither will a desperate trawl through the past looking for an ex-Everton hard man help us in the long run.

I can understand anyone being concerned that we'll get relegated with our form and quality of play this season. I think we've played like a mid-table team all season and that's where we'll end up.

There's an equally likely type of probability that points to us having a good run at one point in the season. If you look at the other squads in the bottom half of the table, there's a strong probability argument that at least three of them will get less points than us.

It's less dramatic, but a perspective that's different to yours. I'm sure if I ran a Kahnemann or Taleb-type statistical test, our probabilities would be equally likely. That leaves us with our different perspectives. I don't think either of us are deluded, we just want the best for the club.

The fact that I disagree with your view on our potential relegation does not make me a blind supporter of Martinez, nor does it make me an advocate of what he's done this season. I've criticised him consistently and will continue to call it like I see it.

Martinez will probably be sacked this summer. I won't argue with that decision when it comes, because he's failed on all the basics this season. I just hoped he's sacked because of not preparing the players in the summer, poor fitness management, poor team selection and motivation, rather than because he took Wigan down, talks rubbish, allegedly criticises Evertonians, is morally corrupt because he took a better job when offered one, etc, etc.

I hope our next manager organises the back four, keeps the players fit, plays a balanced team, encourages them to keep the ball, control the game, attack with pace, create chances and score goals.