Everton Sleepwalk to Another Away Defeat

IÂ’ve been patient, albeit hugely disappointed, for most of this season in the belief that a long term plan is what the club needs, and that implementing such a plan might have temporary tough times.

I donÂ’t see a plan, though. ThereÂ’s no sign that weÂ’re playing to a system at all any more, weÂ’re just going backward. The talent the team genuinely has is being wasted through lack of motivation, poor tactics and an incredibly passive approach. I wouldnÂ’t mind losing quite so much if I could see that there was some kind of target of positive play that we were trying to reach.

If there is going to be a change before the end of the season, and I think it’s warranted, I want it to be a short-term one – an internal caretaker appointment to simply bring some motivation. Such a change would hopefully drag us away from trouble, and possibly even give impetus for European progress (does anyone have any great faith in this Martinez team to get past the better teams we’ll now be facing?).

I want a caretaker because if we were to change then we need to take the same risk we took with Martinez again in terms of a long term appointment. It shouldnÂ’t be something we rush into for security.

Because here’s the thing – if Martinez is the wrong man, then the risk behind the hire was still the *right* one; a desire to implement a long term plan that is intended to change the philosophy of the club deeply. Not a mid-table manager, not a manager for security, not a Pulis or a McClaren, etc.

If we’re ever to progress we need to keep taking risks with our manager, whoever it is. We clearly won’t attract the proven top quality managers, so we need to keep risking on the ones who might become a top quality one – not a safer, but average, known quantity. It’s exactly the same approach we have to take to bringing in players.

We are good enough, and will remain good enough, to remain safe with safe managers. But we should never be satisfied with safe, with "weÂ’re OK". And thatÂ’s our conundrum; the only way we can reach higher is to put ourselves at greater risk of falling lower.

10 games is barely enough time to rescue our status. I donÂ’t agree that our points tally to date is enough. It assumes we will get more points and I just canÂ’t see where from.

One of the potentially best Everton sides in any years is being raped of all confidence. Look at Barkley, he looks lost on the pitch where only a season ago the opposition were panicking every time he got the ball. Just as bad is MartinezÂ’s insistence on playing players with no form. Tim Howard is quite rightly a whipping boy in this regard; without a clean sheet since he returned to the side. What has that done for RoblesÂ’ confidence; a player who was keeping clean sheets and inspiring confidence in the players ahead of him ?

The Dear Leader needs to grow some cojones and deal with this now. Forget the Europa, survival is more important both financially and given our ClubÂ’s heritage. There is an 11-day gap to our next fixture; time enough for a new management to come on and hopefully change our shape and mentality and get the points we need.

I am old enough to remember the relegation dogfights of the 90s when teams that (on paper) were not as good as this squad, fought tooth and nail to keep us up. I get no such confidence from our team now. Those dogfights were horrible and make no mistake we are back in one now.

Martinez still doesnÂ’t get it and thatÂ’s why he needs to go. Bring in caretakers who are Evertonians who know what this Club is about and get the players fired up. Then go out in the summer and get a manager who can take us forward and not sideways and backwards.

This was a truly great chance for us to push on and get that top 4 spot but instead itÂ’s been one of the worst and easily one of the most horribly frustrating in our recent history.

Back in the 90s, you always knew relegation battles were coming before the season had even started but this has taken this piss. I suppose we should really have heeded warnings at the tail end of last season when we were collapsing in games at Southampton or at home to Crystal Palace. Then of course there was the woeful pre-season we endured. It was on the cards, just maybe we didnÂ’t expect it in such a severe dramatic downward spiral.

All said and done, though, regardless of whether we stay up now or not, there is no way on earth we can go with this same group of players and the same management again next season. We will be lucky to stay up this season, we wonÂ’t get lucky again.

I agree, Robin, an interim manager would be welcome, but Kenwright would have to make the change now, like he did with Smith, a new boss would need the 10 games to be sure of safety. My only reservation would be what happens if the interim boss does well, as in keeps them up safely goes a couple if extra rounds in the Europa League and the players like him?

I personally would go for experience, someone who knows the club, like Royle or Reid; after all, we cannot afford to pay compensation twice. But this wouldnÂ’t support a long-term plan as such.

What is the ongoing plan? Are we still waiting for this team to Â’clickÂ’? If we drop into the bottom three, will we still be patting ourselves on the back for possession? Roberto?

If we are going for an interim manager, then IÂ’d go and get Joe Royle until the end of the season, he knows the club and he knows how the English Premier League works and what you need to do to gain results.

Martinez has proven that he is too obsessed by simply holding possession but the reality is there is never ever anything at the end of it.

Our scoring since the end of October has been appalling. We have three central midfielders in Barry, Besic and McCarthy and not one of them has scored a single goal in any competition this season.

It’s funny that our disastrous turn in form actually dates back to that last victory over Manchester United in Moyes’s last match – observe our results since then as he departed the Premier League scene!

I can’t be alone in this thought but surely David Moyes is now in an even better position to manage us after his experiences at Man Utd and coaching in Spain – and he must believe now his true love and calling in football. Come home, David Moyes, your People’s Club needs you!

ThereÂ’s no "either... or..." about it, it is clearly both, a fatal combination.

I think last season, especially the fitness side if things, even the Moyes detractors would have to accept that he played some part in the early part of last season.

ItÂ’s no surprise that we now look one if the unfittest sides in the Premier League because Martinez has totally neglected that side of the game.

This is the only thing he has to hang onto, a possible European trophy. The minute we get battered by one of the top teams in this competition, he will be laid bare.

Hull away was the end of the line for me, the warning signs were there against Southampton away when the manager inexplicably made no substitutions.

I admire those who wanted him to stay as IÂ’m a big believer in loyalty, but even his most ardent fan must see that we are at a critical point and that we must take drastic measures to ensure survival.

A honeymoon period of a new manager may be enough to maintain our status.

He is turning the best squad of players that we have had for 20 years into Ray WilkinsÂ’s crabs. 㿈M for a striker with a first touch like a hand grenade going off! Face him at goal and you have a threat, face him away from goal and you have Brett Angell.

I could run through the whole team and slaughter the lot of them but that just brings me back to the manager who is supposed to get the best out of them, not the worst.

IÂ’d replace him with Phil Neville. He led us well as a skipper, even though he was quite limited as a player. He never gave anything less than his all when he had the shirt on; something that this team is lacking in spades is heart and endeavour.

The thing is, I really do feel sorry for Martinez, heÂ’s a nice guy and you want him to do well but its so clear that heÂ’s at fault for all thatÂ’s gone/going wrong. The guy just wonÂ’t admit his Â’systemÂ’ is wrong (with this set of players anyway) and adapt. Pride comes before a fall as they say.

IÂ’m pretty sure the cost of sacking him is one of the main reasons the guy is still there. No other established team in the league would tolerate a manager managing just 1 win in 3 months. 7 points from the last possible 36!

BK needs to act and fast. It wonÂ’t be long before the law of averages kicks in and one of QPR or Burnley picks up a win.

I read a lot about teams have sussed us out after last season but to me we are not playing anything like we did last season because Martinez has changed it. For instance, arguably our best performance this season was Wolfsburg away when we actually played with width and balance, just like last season. Why he has changed this, I donÂ’t have a clue... but I wish someone would ask him.

We are in serious trouble. We looked to be clawing our way back to safety when he tightened the defence up and Robles kept three clean sheets on the bounce. Then came the mystifying decision to drop Robles for Howard and weÂ’ve been in a downward spiral since then.

We have played with no wingers most of the season till LennonÂ’s arrival, unless of course he sticks Barkley (playmaker) or Lukaku (goalscorer) out on the wing. Mirallas has been available, and weÂ’ve had either McGeady (not good enough is true) or Oviedo during the season. What is this inept, clueless Manager trying to prove?

Change your setup and tactics back to the winning formula instead of your arrogant misguided philosophies. YOU ARE NOT BIGGER THAN EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB.

What a mess this guy has led us to.

Only reason I bring up Howard is that, since RoblesÂ’s three clean sheets in a row, Howard has come in and in the 6 subsequent games heÂ’s played weÂ’ve kept a total of 0 clean sheets and conceeded 9 goals in all competitions. Now Howard was not at fault for all those goals but the GK is such a key part of the defence that I canÂ’t help but wonder how many goals weÂ’d have conceded had Robles kept his place.

Our main problem is however at the other end of the pitch; yesterday was the 5th league game this year (out of 9) that weÂ’ve failed to score with teams like the mighty Stoke, West Brom and Hull managing to keep us out. Yet the manager doesnÂ’t think there is something wrong with his Â’systemÂ’.... instead itÂ’s us being tired from too many games or being out of luck or the ref is against us or players are injured or EL games/travel.... every reason under the sun apart from the obvious.

I feel sorry for the fans who go regularly to the games, especially to the away games. I normally only manage 4 or 5 a season, however this year IÂ’m yet to go and I honestly cannot be arsed to waste (yes waste) my time and money going to a game knowing what will be served up. Life is just too short.

I wonder how many season tickets have been renewed since they became available last month... the silence from BK and the board is deafening.

You can only fit the ideology if you can attract the players to fit the ideology. Everton clearly cannot. This is a simple amateur league understanding.

You need to get your finger from up your backside and realise that you need to use the players that you have at your disposal to play to their best potential. If you donÂ’t, I fear youÂ’ll doom us to relegation. This is something for which no proud Evertonian will ever forgive you!!!

Where Liverpool train players to become better and better and work their players so that they are at the very peak of their physical fitness, we simply destroy players and thatÂ’s what we have specialized in this entire season, going back to pre-season.

Liverpool are miles fitter than us now, look at Jordan Henderson? Forget all this "heÂ’s not fit to lace BarkleyÂ’s boots" bollox. At the present moment in time, IÂ’d be taking him every single week over Ross. ThatÂ’s because the Shite have trained him into a better player, a fitter stronger man.

Barkley doesnÂ’t jump, he doesnÂ’t press the opponent... ItÂ’s embarrassing. We need a managerial team that us going to start working them much harder again.

If we only draw or are pointless against Newcastle, then the calls for his head will grow louder. If we then take nothing from the QPR game, he will be gone. It will be Joe Royle with back to basics for the rest of the season. We will survive, and a new manager will be appointed in the close season.

I honestly havenÂ’t heard so much unrest and arguing, general ill-feeling at Goodison since the Peter Johnson demonstration days of 1997-98. The entire group from the management team (not just Martinez) right through to the players have to share the blame.

Martinez and his staff for simply refusing to budge from this pathetic possession at snailÂ’s pace football without penetration and also for totally neglecting the physical fitness of players.

The players themselves have not covered themselves in glory either and frankly I believe they are overrated, are they that much better than the days of the John Ebbrell, Barry Horne and Joe Parkinson?

If it came to final-day battle like 1994Â’s win or bust, could we expect James McCarthy or Besic to stick an "Ohh Horne" 30-yard screamer in the top corner?? No... I doubt it either.

Usually the bookies are an indication of something happening.

This is by far a more talented group but their attitude and application is pathetic. The Manager is simply a charlatan who has been given a free ride by a compliant media and a chairman who seems to have disappeared up his own arse.

I work with a Wigan supporter who when we appointed RM told me what he would do to us and he was spot on.

As a group of supporters, we are also compliant in accepting this pile of steaming shite. I think a bit of Â’kopite behaviourÂ’ is in order and we need to make our voices heard. Can you imagine our nearest and dearest across the park tolerating this?

Oh no, I hear some of you say – I’m sorry we can’t do that because we are Everton and we have class etc and other such assorted bollocks.

Well when I take my 3 lads on a wet Wednesday night next November to our big night away game at the Keepmoat stadium in Doncaster, I might just be thinking that perhaps some our support are fuckin deluded.

Quite simple – fire this idiot right now, play the U-21s in the Europa League and concentrate 100% on getting points in the Premier League. I don’t give a fuck about style of play — just get another 10 points any way you can!

That message will get through to the board quicker than anything.

Quite simple – fire this idiot right now, play the U-21s in the Europa League and concentrate 100% on getting points in the Premier League. I don’t give a fuck about style of play — just get another 10 points any way you can!

CouldnÂ’t agree more.

Anyhow, everything has been said, and I agree with most posts. One good thing that I noticed last night, is that the media now seem to be on his case. They finally realise that Martinez is somewhat been found out. That Everton are in a scrap. That has to be good. Maybe start to make Martinez wake up to the situation. Maybe make him start earning his money.

A little protest. A little dissent. A little disgruntlement. Might just shake this bloody man up enough to start acting like a manager. But there again.

(With apologies to Philip Larkin)

They fuck you up, your managers.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one anotherÂ’s throats.

Manager hands on misery to manager.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And donÂ’t have any kids yourself.

An interesting post, especially your point about the unrest and it reminding you of the Johnson era.

As for the Europa, going on recent performances, we have more chance of winning Eurovision.

I believe that the dressing room, if it hasn’t already been lost, is very close to being so. Roberto’s increasingly vacuous positivity flies in the face of results and performance. And the players know it. They want guidance, tactics and the sort of confidence-inspiring leadership which will deliver results. They need a workable system which plays to their strengths. Instead of practising set pieces, they appear to get weasel words – at least I suspect so... there doesn’t appear to be much evidence of tactical nous on the pitch at the moment.

Funnily enough, I think Roberto has much to offer, in the right context. So we could play the Barcelona way if we were up in heaven and could call upon George Best, Eusebio, and Garrincha. However we are here, stuck on planet earth, in 2015, with a squad rapidly losing confidence whose players are being asked to play to alien strengths.

Unlike you, Jim, I blame the manager more than the players. He seems to be quite stubborn and I donÂ’t think he has anyone who ever tells him to stop persisting with what patently isnÂ’t working. The message needs to be: forget the purist stuff for a few games; focus on gathering points; make us hard to beat; write off this season; make sure we survive; and adapt your approach next August when you can start again.

As the French put it: he needs to put a little water in his wine.

However, back to serious matters, Brian Mills sums up very cogently one of the great differences. Last season Baines and Coleman were the best wing backs in the League, this year they are not able to work up their flank because the personnel and the system have changed. The result is they go forward and then stop, come inside, get lost and get caught out of position.

IÂ’m with Jim Benning, I see this as the worst position since the late nineties, but with one crucial difference, that team had a lot of guts and fight, not a lot of skill, but hey made every game a dogfight. This lot havenÂ’t that quality and they often make you think they can be bullied. Barry may get booked regularly, as does McCarthy, but they are cynical and professional fouls Only Besic gives you the feeling that he actually physically imposes himself on the opposition. And of course, Martinez prefers Barry!

Howard is a liability, Mirallas a prima donna and Barkley is being destroyed by inconsistent and unsympathetic handling.

To return to Larkin, watching the present Everton is "first boredom, then fear".

First Martinez and his apologists said, wait till Barkely returns and once he does, Lukaku and the whole team will be firing on all cylinders.

Then, we have a tough run-in. Let's get over this period and we will be flying.

Then, wait for some of our main players (Stones etc.), who were missing due to various injuries, to return and you will see the real Blues.

Then, after Christmas there will be Europa League distractions and the manager and team will finally show their mettle!

Yet, we are now over two-thirds into the season, collecting a measly 28 points from 28 games!

We have won only 1 game in our last 11 PL games while losing 6 and drawing 4, all too with

1) Barkely
2) Easy fixtures (Leicester,Hull, West Brom etc.)
3) Almost the entire squad
4) No or very little Europa League distractions

So what's the next excuse? Oh I forgot, tired legs!