The Lack of Patience

Jim Knightley 29/09/2015 77comments  |  Jump to last
When West Brom went 2-0 ahead on Monday, even the most ardent of us expected defeat. What followed was not only surprising, but historic. We overturned a 2-0 deficit away from home for the first time in 30 years in the League; for the first time in literally hundreds of away games. In the process, Pulis lost for the first time in the Premier League from a two-goal league.

The last stat is important. Pulis sets his teams up tightly, and goals are hard to come by. West Brom lost some defenders to injury, but we had more players missing. Three of the back four were out, as well as Mirallas and Cleverley, all of whom would likely have been involved in some capacity (four would arguably have started).

The win says much about the squad strength criticised by some on here during the summer. Indeed, we could have put out the following 11, from players not in the starting line-up:

Robles, Coleman, Besic, Stones, Baines, Cleverley, Gibson, Mirallas, Osman, Lennon and Kone.

A team good enough to push for a top-half finish, in my opinion.

But most surprising of all perhaps, was the belief in the side. A side who, facing the toughest run of fixtures in the league, sit in 5th place. A side fresh off the back of the worst season in a decade. A side who fought all summer to hold onto one of their assets, and had to endure the disgraceful behaviour of Mourinho and the media. But a side full of youth and potential – Lukaku, Barkley, Galloway, and Deulofeu are all between the ages of 19 and 22.

Yet, it's one of those whom this article is about. Our top scorer with 6 goals, and 2 assists, from 9 games in all competitions. A player who has hit 16 or more goals in each of his last three seasons, and 15 or more league goals in 2 of his last 3 seasons. A player whom I have defended time and time again on these boards.

We all know the conundrum with Lukaku. He has a poor touch, and his technical ability is lacking. But neither of these qualities are as bad as people make out, and in spite of bizarre suggestions to the contrary, it is possible that Lukaku will improve in these areas, just as Drogba, the player Lukaku is often compared to, did in his later twenties.

But Lukaku is a goalscorer. There is no doubt about that. Look at his stats, and look at his age. The majority of the world's best strikers could not match Lukaku's scoring record at 22. He may mis-control the ball too often, he may not run around enough for many people's liking (like many strikers), but he scores goals. This season he has more than Aguero, Costa, Rooney, Sanchez, Benteke or Kane.

Yet, he is subject to an absurd amount of criticism, criticism which stinks of a lack reason, perspective, and at times judgement.

It's remarkable that a player who is already sixth on our list of all-time Premier League goalscorers, at the age of 22, doesn't buy himself more time with many Evertonians. It stinks of a lack of patience, and perspective.

We have our best squad of the Premier League era. We have young players literally with the world at their feet. Stones will be world class. Deulofeu could be too. Baines and Coleman are possibly the best full-back pairing in this league. McCarthy is a superb defensive midfielder. Barkley is again looking like achieving his potential. Lukaku, whilst occasionally frustrating, is one of the most promising and best young strikers in Europe.

I didn't believe in Martinez at the start of this season. I thought he made too many errors last season, and was too stubborn to change. He is proving me wrong so far. To motivate that result on Monday shows that he has the faith of the players, and has instilled a winning mentality. Perhaps his positivism has an end result after all?

This team needs patience and we all need it too. Many of these players are young, and will make mistakes. In fact, all players make mistakes, and it might be worth remembering that the next time Howard flaps at a cross, or Lukaku has a poor game.

There are too many entitled fans, in my opinion, and in football in general. Maybe it's the sensationalism of the media. Maybe it's the 80s fans whose expectations are out of sync with our financial reality, and the capacity of our rivals. So please, can we put a break on the negative Lukaku comments? Can we give our players a break? Criticise the board, but give this team time. Perhaps we do have the manager to take us to the next level. We won't know that for a while yet though, just as we won't know for a while whether the likes of Lukaku, Barkley, Stones, Galloway, Deulofeu and the rest become world beaters. One thing is for sure though, they will have good days and bad ones.

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Steve Jones
1 Posted 30/09/2015 at 18:02:46
Good article, agree on the strength of the squad. The fact you forget one of our chief play makers of previous seasons Pienaar in your "2nd" 11 highlights that.

Also worth pointing out Lukaku has more goals than Rooney, Aguero etc did at his ago not overall. Big difference!

Steve Jones
2 Posted 30/09/2015 at 18:04:13
Apologies, reading on my phone you said this season.
Graham Mockford
3 Posted 30/09/2015 at 18:19:14
It will be quite interesting at the end of the season the amount of squad changes that may happen due to contract termination Six of the first team squad have contracts ending in June: Hibbert, Osman, Pienaar, Gibson, Oviedo and Kone.

You may actually see all six leave. Hibbo definitely, Ossie I suspect may get another year but lack of playing time this season could suggest differently.

We then have three players whose injury record probably means they will go; it would be a shame about Oviedo but the emergence of Galloway as a proper PL player probably means he will go.

The most likely to get an extension is Kone if he gets through the season and keeps playing like he has in the first seven games.

What it will do is free up significant wage bill budget and a chance for Martinez to improve the squad.

Colin Glassar
4 Posted 30/09/2015 at 18:37:00
Excellent article, Jim. We now have a manager who not only bigs up his players but the club as well.

How refreshing it is to hear an Everton manager call EFC ’a massive club with a fantastic history’.

How great it is to hear an Everton manager set his goal of seventy (yes, 70) points and not the usual "let’s get to 40 points first".

How brilliant it is to see an Everton manager tell, publicly, a media darling like Mourinho to fuck off.

The mindset amongst Evertonians needs to change. We need to believe that it is 11 men against 11 men and that on our day we can beat anyone. The teams of the '60s and '80s had self-belief, they had that arrogance that Martinez speaks of.

We need to lose our inferiority complex against the Sky 6 and we can start on Sunday by pulverising the RS and shutting up, once and for all, the RS dominated media. COYB!!

Nigel Gregson
5 Posted 30/09/2015 at 18:53:55
Good article, yes, the fans demand instant success and it seems ’success’ here is a top 6-8 finish. Any variation - even if it might result in a longer term shot at a trophy or top 4 - seems not good enough, if it means losing games in the short term.

Roberto has been fully transparent right from the beginning. His aim is to get to top 4, by playing a different style of football and by developing a core group of younger players.

So, why does it surprise everyone that we have shit season in the middle, or, a younger player goofs up, or lacks a certain skill. At least with youth on their side, they can develop aspects of their game.

William Cartwright
6 Posted 30/09/2015 at 19:01:58
Excellent report and 4 excellent responses. Presuming the players read ToffeeWeb, then it's good for the more rational views to be presented and they appreciate where the fans support really stands. God, how I would love to see the RedShites get well and truly stuffed on Sunday, like the proverbial turkey lunch. Come on you blues...
Les Martin
7 Posted 30/09/2015 at 19:05:37
I think the key to Everton is how we are set up, we are solid at the back and have defence midfield cover.

I think if we can get a player in to cover Ross to give him a break as the season goes on or get Gibbo on a run of fitness we can do a top 4 this season.

I say this because we have the players to be a superb counter attacking side, we have three extremely fast wingers in Super Kev, Del and Lennon, there are all like lightning, add this to the pace of Lukaku and with the right supply we will always be a threat.

It is shaping up to be an interesting season the tippy tappy stuff has been minimalised already as we need to get the ball up quickly when required.

Also I have a feeling that Rodriquez could also be a star, he just has that natural goalscoring look about him

Tony George
8 Posted 30/09/2015 at 19:06:56
A well argued piece but the sort that often appears after a couple of decent performances. Of course we should be patient but that's a prerequisite for all Evertonians!

There have been so many false dawns in the Premier League era – none more so than Roberto's first season which was followed by the abysmal 2014-15. With Everton, you just cannot bank on the corner being turned.

So by all means let us be patient but so should the writer of this piece before he rushes into proclaiming McCarthy as 'superb', Barkley as 'fulfilling his potential' and Stones as 'world class'.

This is Everton we are talking about and our nemesis is at the gates!

James Peter
9 Posted 30/09/2015 at 19:19:33
I totally agree with that comment, Colin, and you said almost exactly that yesterday to my mates. So rather than repeat your sentiments, I will make a few more points which should give us more dare I say ’hope’.

We have really good players to come back in to the team, which is already coping well. This should provide natural respite for the squad and possibly a boost to maintain our good start.

Martinez’s tactics, substitutions seem to have evolved for the better to suit different situations / teams home and away.

The well publisized ’level’ of the Sky 6 is not as high as previous years. Also the gap between the teams as a whole as closed somewhat with the increased revenues.

We have no European distractions (although I miss the extra football, excitement and opportunity for a jolly).

I have never witnessed an Everton squad to be as able to rotate and stay effective as I have this season. I used to always marvel how United were able to do this. Players coming in and knowing their job, not sulking and putting a shift in.

I’m not and I don’t think I ever will get myself too excited as I’ve been burned too many times before but I can say with confidence that this season it’s in our hands. We have the quality and the depth to go really far so I’m going to sit back and enjoy the ride.

COYBs

David Chait
10 Posted 30/09/2015 at 19:26:12
Good article... Many of us didn’t want to write off the team yet and have never lost belief in their potential even last season. The big change was needed in RM and I also felt he was too stubborn to change but change he has done... to some extent.

He still has his favourites and doesn’t like to mess with his axis... Much to the annoyance of Besic fans like myself for him not getting enough game time. That apart, he us done well this season.

William Cartwright
11 Posted 30/09/2015 at 19:40:45
I think Roberto’s strategy was a was always going to be a 3 or 4 season target for Champion’s League qualification. The first season probably surprised Roberto as much as anyone. Even the way the wheels fell off against Palace and Southampton was an out-of-control thing. Season two was all about gaining experience, building up the relationships on and off the park.

There are so many plots and sub-plots but there are some key pointers emerging in this third season such as the blend of youth and experience in nearly all positions, and the benefits of the education of the second season starting to shine through. I hope this season will bring a cup to the trophy cabinet. Fourth spot would be magic but still a bridge too far this season unless we can really step up to the plate.

I wonder if with Galloway looking the real deal, that when Baines comes back he steps into the deep lying Philip Lahm type role and that gives a different twist to the creative midfield strategy? Looks like an interesting season is about to unfold.

Raymond Fox
12 Posted 30/09/2015 at 19:45:08
With regards last season, I believe the Europa League cost us 3 or 4 places in the League. Every ex-player bar one (Robbie Savage)!! has said when asked, what difference playing in Europe made to the League form have agreed that it had a detrimental effect.

There’s been very few players abandoning ship since RM took over, that in itself tells me they have confidence in the manager.

We now have a strong looking versatile squad who will give any team a game; I certainly don’t think we’ve slipped down the pecking order.

Patrick Murphy
13 Posted 30/09/2015 at 19:51:39
I believe that if a player isn’t producing the goods or isn’t showing up for long periods of matches then it is the supporters right to show their dissatisfaction in a way that doesn’t heap pressure on that player but reminds them of the standards that the fans have and how they won’t accept anything below those standards.

As for those of us who witnessed the 80s or the 70s or indeed any other era, first and foremost most were never driven by the end result alone, but rather they all are aware that being consistently good is the way to achieve things. Being great in one game and average in the next four will not lead to trophies or high league placings. This current Everton side has bags of potential and it could quite easily reach that potential a) if it believes in itself; b) if it keeps striving to improve game by game; and c) if it has the rub of the green.

An Everton team and its players will always be supported by the majority of the fans, as witnessed on Monday at the Hawthorns. Yes, we were all annoyed and dismayed when the 2nd West Brom goal went in but, from the moment we kicked off after conceding that second goal, there was a defiant mood among the away supporters and the team responded in kind.

Calling Evertonians impatient is a tad outrageous, there are not many supporters around who have shown as much patience as have the Blues fans over the years. If the target is those who pay to watch the team home and away, I would vehemently disagree with such a sentiment, if it is aimed at those who criticize on message boards and social media, I believe the author takes those views far too seriously and I’m pretty sure those views have zero effect on the team.

Andy Crooks
14 Posted 30/09/2015 at 19:54:29
Some good points, Jim. I disagree about his first touch, in my view it is average, not poor. I feel the same about his technical ability.

In my view, both can be coached and practised. Both, I believe, will improve vastly with experience.

What can’t be coached is what he has naturally, a scorers instinct and presence. We have a top player here who, it seems to me, has already increased his value.

Niall McIlhone
15 Posted 30/09/2015 at 19:57:26
Yes Jim, you have a good point, patience (with this squad) is needed. As we fast approach the "harum-scarum" of a Goodison derby, I think we should perhaps temper our expectations of a win following the WBA result, because anything can happen really can’t it?

No. Better, I think, to see how we fare against Man Utd, a team currently sitting on top of the pile, but clearly far from the finished article... we can beat them.

Apart from Lukaku’s late power show on Monday, what really enthused me was the effortless quality that Deulofeu achieved with his crossing from positions which should not normally be a threat to defenders. Deulofeu is a player you expect to aim for the touchline, but we are seeing that he has the quality to damage defences from more deep positions.

As for Galloway and Browning, those lads don’t lack confidence do they, and the prospects for our defensive play appear very rosy right now.

Darren Hind
16 Posted 30/09/2015 at 19:57:33
The praise heaped on Lukaku since Monday has bordered on adulation. What more do you want?

I’ve been an admirer of his since I first saw him, I think he can be unplayable at times, but there are times when he simply does not apply himself; there are times when his profligacy in front of goal cost us games.

What is it you are asking? That he gets the same smoke blown up his arse? No chance.

Football works like this: play well and you will be praised. Play very well and you will be adored. Play shite and you will be criticised; play really shite and the people who pay good money to watch you are entitled / obligated to hammer you. T'was ever thus.

Players do not improve by fools telling them they are fantastic when they are not.

The Big Fella will become hero, maybe even legend, if he can reproduce his performance at the Hawthorns at the weekend, but if he reproduces one of his... err, less inspired performance he will be getting criticised again. Count on it.

David Chait
17 Posted 30/09/2015 at 20:04:34
Ya Niall, what Deulofeu showed with those early crosses with hardly a backswing has made him a certain starter and integral to the success of Lukaku too.

Not just a sprinter to the line. Already better than the player we saw two seasons back.

If all three of Barkley, Lukaku and Deulofeu fire — watch out!

Andy Crooks
18 Posted 30/09/2015 at 20:24:25
Darren, I agree with your belief that as supporters we can criticise or praise as we see fit. That’s what I do.

I think that some of the criticism of Lukaku has been harsh recently. I do not believe there has been adulation of him since Monday, merely a recognition by many, myself included, that we have a real talent here. His profligacy in front of goal suggests to me that what is already a sound scoring record can be improved.

Finally, I have rarely ever seen true lack of effort from any player and I cannot accept that Lukaku thinks at the start of certain games that he just can’t be arsed. Frustration, perhaps, but that is not lack of effort.

Jay Harris
19 Posted 30/09/2015 at 20:32:47
To call for patience after last seasons pathetic showing which in reality had little to do with the Europa League and more to do with the style of playing and team selection, is a bit much.

Yes, we have had some good performances and unexpected results but we have also had some less than stellar performances so far.

I also wish that people would stop quoting Lukaku’s goals for his age. It doesn't matter. What matters is how he is performing for Everton and last season I believe he got 14 in 39 games which is average and this season including the brace at West Brom he has scored 4 in 7 which, if he keeps it up, is much better.

But why should we be patient or tolerant when we know how good this team can be? We should not accept being a "small" club or a Chelsea / Man Utd feeder club. It is only 25 years since we were on a par with Man Utd and Chelsea weren't even considered top 5 so why should we tolerate the status quo?

To hell with patience — we should demand it now.

20 years without a trophy is too long.

Joe Foster
20 Posted 30/09/2015 at 20:52:28
I only got half way through the article and found my patience was tested.
John Raftery
21 Posted 30/09/2015 at 20:53:01
Good article. Too many have stuck to the script that Romelu’s first time control is poor. It is as though no other player ever fails to control the ball first time with two or three defenders up his backside ready to jump in with a tackle.

His control has improved considerably since he first arrived and will continue to improve as he and those around him gain experience.

If he sees out the rest of his contract, and I really hope he does, he will comfortably join our 100 goals club. We are lucky to have him.

Peter McHugh
22 Posted 30/09/2015 at 21:10:44
Enjoyable article. I believe our fans are patient but have after 20 years become less so. Also, society is less patient and this will mirror fans of any football club including ours.

As for Lukaku, my view is the majority know he’s a cracking player. He is, however, frequently lazy. People on here have said that’s a lazy assessment. I stand by it. If he scores goals people will keep quiet. If he doesn’t people will rightly have a go at him.

Take Stracqualursi. Shockingly bad player. But loads of heart — if Lukaku had half as much heart, he would get no stick and would score loads more goals.

Andy Crooks
23 Posted 30/09/2015 at 21:35:13
Peter, surely if Lukaku was as lazy as you say Martinez would intervene. I mean it would appear to me to be a straightforward flaw to address.

I don’t think he is; sometimes I don’t think he looks lean and fit but again surely that is something that can be addressed. I have many criticisms of the Martinez regime but I think Lukaku is a big plus.

Ernie Baywood
24 Posted 30/09/2015 at 21:45:50
But Peter, he does score goals. It's a fact. I think we need to apply a similar attitude to Deulofeu and Barkley too - there will be weeks where they don't produce individual results but you judge them over months rather than minutes. All are impact players and all have had an impact.

Martinez, I think, is less proven. When we were in a rut last year he seemingly couldn't get us out of it. His positivity was no longer "refreshing" it was grating. Things are looking ok right now but let's see how he responds to the poor run we will have at some point. Hopefully we will see improvement in him as a manager.

Paul Tran
25 Posted 30/09/2015 at 21:56:25
Spot on, Darren. The main problem on here is that too many people get dragged into the love/hate camps, rather than just telling it like it is. Lukaku stank the place out in the first half. Even in the second half, he was getting good service and arriving later than a 1970s British Rail train. For all that, he still came up with two goals and an assist. Not all bad/good, doesn't make him a superstar/idiot. He's got to do it more consistently for me.

All I will say is that there's a difference between criticising performance and calling someone a coward, charlatan, clown, waste of space, etc.

Tony Abrahams
26 Posted 30/09/2015 at 22:07:24
Lukaku can miss all day if he applies himself in the right way, because if he does this, then we all know the goals will eventually come. Let's hope he applies himself on Sunday!

When the team is working hard and playing football, at pace then I'm sure the crowd will be patient. It's the slow boring stuff that gets on our nerves, because it just doesn't generate any excitement.

Dave Pritchard
27 Posted 30/09/2015 at 22:14:37
Agree Paul. Everyone's entitled to their views so we just have to put up with the extreme opinions that some have. I like Lukaku and see him as one of our most important players if we are going to make significant progress this season and beyond but he still annoys me when he has his off days.
Peter McHugh
28 Posted 30/09/2015 at 22:23:41
Ernie, I agree, he scores shedloads of goals and his potential is frightening. People forget how young he is.

Andy, I don’t think the laziness is a simple flaw but see your point. When he first arrived and against West Ham whacked those players and scored that great goal – wow. Against Liverpool, Arsenal that first season, he was amazing.

Second season and loads of excuses:- World Cup, niggling injury, lack of form and close one killed. He admitted RM dropping him shifted his attitude. I got impression he then went up a gear to get 20 goals.

I think it’s Lukaku’s mentality. He wants to be top dog and if we’re doing well, on a big stage, in Europe, he will do well. But he needs motivating otherwise he is lazy. I think it’s a more common trait in some players than people realise.

However the top top players don’t have this trait. The amount of effort they put in, often off the training ground, people like Cantona, Bergkamp, Di Canio, Zola, Ronaldo is unbelievable.

My concern is Lukaku’s natural gift of scoring goals (which is the hardest thing to do) means he skips parts and doesn’t try his best on every training session, on every single aspect of his game. He has a lazy mentality like many players do.

Graham Mockford
29 Posted 30/09/2015 at 22:28:28
Peter McHugh

Please explain how you know what the fuck Lukaku does in training?

Darren Hind
30 Posted 30/09/2015 at 23:25:02
But that’s just it, Ernie (#24), we judge each match/performance as it comes. If we were to wait months before giving our opinion, Michael and Lyndon could just open up six times a year and we could all give our "overall" opinion.

Opinion changes from game to game, just because you have called a player's performance rotten after/during a bad game, doesn’t mean you think they are shite and want him shipped out. It’s ridiculous to expect the same response to a great performance as you would get to a shite one.

Its the hypocrisy that gets me. The critics of criticism are more than happy to criticise players & managers themselves, but if you criticise their favourites they scream the house down.

We’re footy supporters. The one thing you can guarantee we will do, is criticise. Much as most of us love Lukaku, Barkley & Stones... they’re getting it if they cost us a couple of points.

Ste Lewis
31 Posted 30/09/2015 at 23:25:40
As some have alluded, I think Lukaku's tally will depend much on Deloufeu's season. He has pinpoint accuracy with little passes through legs etc but those early crosses can be a great asset to us. He can buy them all season as covering defenders don't want to get too tight to a bag of tricks with blistering acceleration.

We have a few players in the 'unplayable on their day' category now. Wouldn't it be nice if that day was Sunday!

Jim Knightley
32 Posted 30/09/2015 at 00:12:52
Darren - the problem is that the criticisms of some are extreme and lack perspective. They resemble an unrelenting and stubborn judgement of a player or the team which is publicised everytime they or we perform badly. My original post included multiple comments which were edited out, taken from the live forums during the WB game. The examples, which I understand were deleted because I included the names of the posters, were intended to contextualise my discussion. Needless to say that some represented unrelenting attacks on Lukaku, similar to those represented in thread replies (others were understandable manifestations of frustration). One poster stated that he would give money and Lukaku for Berahino, after Berahino scored. It was emblematic of the sensationalist rubbish which frustrates me.

Obviously varied opinions are great and warranted, but they should hold water. Too many on here don’t in my opinion, and some posters would do well to consider context and perspective. Criticising Hibbert time and time again, or Osman, or Lukaku, or Baines or Jags, is unnecessary in my opinion, especially when those players have demonstrated their worth to the team over an extended period of time.

Some of the stuff I’ve read about Jags or Baines after their blips was quite frankly remarkable, and as I will repeat, representative of a petulant impatience. Pretty much all players have poor periods, especially at a young age. I personally would prefer more patience, than criticism, during those periods. Was Jagielka finished after his poor form following the world cup? Should we really sell Baines and replace him in the first 11 with Garbutt or Oviedo? Is Lukaku really a lazy waste of a shirt and an ’overpriced, overrated, probably overweight... and unfortunately..[an] EFC [player]’ with the control and technical ability of a semi-professional player?

My problem is that there are clearly people on here who would like players shipped out after a poor period, and have explicitly referenced the fact. There are many on here that demand loyalty, but will right off a player after a poor spell. This is in no way that this is just an Evertonian thing, but part of football now, and produced in part by the sensationalist output of trolling garbage pedlars like the Mail and Talkport.

Because this board is full of so many great contributors, I’d like to plea for a little more patience with the players. That’s not to say that we should accept mediocrity, and my post clearly was not about that. But we also have to accept realism, and because Jags or Howard have poor post World Cup years, because Baines form suffers, because Lukaku has a bad period, because Kone looks poor in preseason etc etc, it doesn’t mean they are finished, or the dreadful manifestations of talentless garbage some on here have proclaimed them to be. I talk about the minority here, and not a majority who can ally their claims with balanced arguments.

I said before the WB game that I think Lukaku would get at least 20 goals in all competitions this season. Someone can rightly criticise me for that, and point to last year’s poor spell as justification. But I do not accept that Lukaku cannot 1) improve the weak aspects of his game because he is 22; 2) must be crap because Mourinho sold him; 3) Is the next Anichebe, etc etc.

I think and hope that I may be proved wrong about Martinez this season. I would ask that those with a stubborn dislike of Lukaku, Howard or whoever accept that they may be wrong too, even if they don’t turn out to be. I think this forum should be a space for discussion and debate, but the same people coming up with the same tired gripes over and over again is not debate, especially when those lack realism or perspective.

Graham Mockford
33 Posted 01/10/2015 at 00:29:23
Jim Knightley

But what about Osman..... powder puff or what.

Gavin Johnson
34 Posted 01/10/2015 at 02:22:12
Good post, Jim. Yes, comparisons to Anichebie are frankly ridiculous. I don't recall Anichebie even getting into double figures, let alone scoring 20.
Peter McHugh
35 Posted 01/10/2015 at 06:12:51
Graham (#29) – from reading fucking quotes which Lukaku during the course of last season and then this close season about his lack of form.
Graham Mockford
36 Posted 01/10/2015 at 07:38:21
Peter,

Okay, point to what you have read that tells you Lukaku ’skips parts and doesn’t try his best on every part of training'?

Tony Abrahams
37 Posted 01/10/2015 at 08:45:58
Graham, think about it mate. If you watch Lukaku, in games, then it sometimes looks like he his not working hard enough. I hope we haven’t got a player who works his bollocks off in training, but can’t be bothered on a Saturday afternoon!

Honestly I think that less than 5% of players would put everything into training, every single day...... I think it’s just a human thing; doesn’t mean they are cheating.

Eddie Dunn
38 Posted 01/10/2015 at 08:50:39
Jim, I enjoyed your article but Lukaku has been off-colour at times this season, and his poor touches have frustrated many of us. There is no doubt that he can score goals, but don’t kid yourself as the first goal was off his shoulder, and there was a hint of handball about his second. Add to this that the Baggies had lost defenders to injury, and had to re-jig the defence... that puts the performance into perspective.

I would like to see Rom do it against the big-boys too, perhaps starting by bossing Skirtl this weekend. He is young and will surely improve and I hope we see him get better with us winning things.

One of the things that young players lack is consistency. Osman was plagued by this in his early career, and went out on loan to improve himself. I hope we see Rom fulfill his undoubted potential and gain the consistency that will make him a really top player.
I

Graham Mockford
39 Posted 01/10/2015 at 09:05:24
Tony,

I still disagree; take Monday night. Lukaku was gash in the first half, although he wasn’t alone but he was working hard.

The lad was visibly sweating; as I’ve said before, maybe he needs his thyroid checking out.

I think you are right, no player will be at it 100% all the time, but does that make them lazy? Why does Lukaku keep getting singled out?

Well we all see the game and players differently but I just don’t get it. There is a difference between effort and consistency. I don’t think anyone would argue he is consistent enough.

Peter McHugh
40 Posted 01/10/2015 at 09:12:30
Graham, fair question but I don’t keep quotes just to back up my opinions. However, his old coach in Belgium was in the paper recently saying how his goals masked others parts of his game that he needed to concentrate on – I appreciate he coached him about 6 years ago.

After Southampton, Rom was saying he was "way fitter" than last season having put the effort in pre-season. Last season, he also said something along the lines of after he got dropped he had to buck his ideas up and try harder in training and that RM had given him the kick up the backside he needed.

I always remember Lukaku being Jimmy big bollocks after his first season and I quote:

"Let me say that I am now the complete striker.. My concentration is better than ever on finishing, rather than on running with the ball."

RM also says he can be as good as he wants to be.

From all this, I conclude he doesn’t try his best on every bit of training.

John Daley
41 Posted 01/10/2015 at 09:18:38
I don’t know about Lukaku giving it loads or little in training but he did mention last season how Martinez dropping him for a couple of matches made him reassess his work rate and up his efforts:

"The manager left me out in a few games in December. That was a wake-up call for me to look at myself in the mirror and say ’Rom, you’re not playing well now, you have to be serious with yourself, you have to work maybe harder. Even though I was working very hard, I could maybe give more."

Chris Gould
42 Posted 01/10/2015 at 09:28:47
Top player, but he has a lot to learn. Right now, I just want to see him bust a gut to get into the box whenever we are in a threatening position. Too often he is standing out near the wing.

A number of times I have watched him get involved in nice build-up play but, once he’s laid it off, he’s stood and watched, instead of busting a gut to get into the danger area. Too many decent crosses have gone across the 6-yard box with nobody anywhere near them. It’s his job to be there.

But this is something that was addressed in the 2nd half and can be further worked on. Lukaku can be as good as he wants to be. But he’s got to want it as bad as the likes of Suarez and Ronaldo. The effort and determination Suarez shows on a weekly basis is what I want to see from him.

Ray Roche
43 Posted 01/10/2015 at 09:38:13
I see that the very fact that Lukaku has expressed his admiration for Rooney has led the Express (spit) to exclaim that he is "set for Everton exit after dropping huge Manchester United hint". You couldn't make it up, could you?
Nigel Gregson
44 Posted 01/10/2015 at 10:16:20
Ray Roche,

On another planet, that rumour would have read : "Rooney set for boyhood club reunion".

Si Cooper
45 Posted 01/10/2015 at 10:22:02
Peter (40), you are not the only one but that doesn’t seem like a fair representation of what his former coach said. He didn’t say the player was choosing to not concentrate on areas of his game anywhere that I saw.

It is the clubs who have been content to use him as a blunt weapon because he has been so successful at it. When the result of every match matters, the majority of the training will be fitness, team play and tactics, not individual skill improvement. Rom’s just been doing as he is told.

Paul Cherrington
46 Posted 01/10/2015 at 10:33:23
I think it's interesting that Ross is back on form and Rom is scoring again now Deulofeu is back in the team. Seems like he gives them more confidence and freedom to play. They also seem to have a good understanding between them (well... apart from Rom not always reading Delboy's crosses).
John Daley
47 Posted 01/10/2015 at 10:55:56
"I see that the very fact that Lukaku has expressed his admiration for Rooney has led the Express (spit) to exclaim that he is "set for Everton exit after dropping huge Manchester United hint". You couldn't make it up, could you?"

You could, you can and they certainly will.

If Lukaku happened to announce his favourite film was 'Weekend At Bernies' one of the rags would probably claim that he's set to retire from football and has formed his own production company for the sole purpose of bringing a modern 'reimagining' of the property back to the screen.

Directed by Lukaku himself and starring acting heavyweight Bill Kenwright in the Andrew McCarthy role, 'A Weekend With Bily' will see Diniyar Bilyetdinov assuming the 'Bernie' role as his lifeless body is dragged around the pitch by his teammates (like a big, limp, bog-roll stuffed effigy of Guy Fawkes about to be thrown on a fucking bonfire) in the hopes they can pass him off as a £9m footballer rather than the remains of a recently dug up Russian hobo.

John Daley
48 Posted 01/10/2015 at 10:58:23
Apologies to the leading man. Bilyaletdinov. Still can't get his damn name right.
Charles McCann
49 Posted 01/10/2015 at 11:03:00
Great article. Lukaku is a top player and I disagree with the comments that he is lazy. Some people seem to think he should be running around like mad trying to win the ball back off the defenders and because he is not doing this think he must be lazy!

I much prefer him saving his energy for those moments he has a chance of scoring a goal. He is a clinical finisher and, if this team create opportunities for him, he will score plenty this season. We have a great squad and I think we should be aiming to challenge at the top end of the table this year.

My biggest worry is Howard in goal. We need a keeper who is not afraid to come off his line for crosses; unfortunately Robles may not be good enough either. Hopefully no stupid goals given away on Sunday; if so, we have a great chance of winning.

Peter McHugh
50 Posted 01/10/2015 at 11:31:32
I agree Simon there is an element of him "doing as he is told" without a shadow of a doubt. He has before talked about having instructions not to run back (as has McGeady).

That all said, I still stand by that I think he is lazy / disinterested at times - just my opinion. As I said, if he put in half the effort the Stracq (who was crap) did, then he would be some player. It’s ultimately down to him not Martinez’s tactics in my view.

Trevor Lynes
51 Posted 01/10/2015 at 11:44:40
Best article I have read on TW for ages and I fully agree with almost every word. Jagielka has been totally immense through all the back four chopping and changing due to injuries and he deserves to be applauded.

I reckon that most critics on here have never played the game to any decent level and just like to snipe at individual players.Calls to dump Lukaku and Mirallas are totally insane and I think that maybe these so called Evertonians must be Liverpool fans in actuality. Mirallas scored eleven last season making him our 2nd top scorer and if not starting is still a great impact sub which every team needs.

Martinez has been lucky that most of the kids have blossomed but we still have a small squad compared to other clubs with aspirations.These youngsters are unfortunately all defenders who have come through of late and it would be marvellous if we could uncover a young striker or attacking midfielder.

We still need strengthening as we cannot afford injuries especially to the likes of Jags or Lukaku.How I wish we had a Silva or Modrich to provide the ammunition for Lukaku, Mirallas, Deulofeu and Barkley. I wish that Barry could find that killer pass to add to his game.I really thought that perhaps McCarthy could add some top passing ability to his industry.

Fans on here talk of Lukaku’s lack of first touch and technical ability but if they think that Latchford, Hickson and others had better ball control than him they are delusional. Lukaku plays best when he has a partner like Kone who can be the target man. Lineker needed Sharp, Keegan needed Toshack and Shearer always had a strike partner. The best strikers are not the one’s who play alone up front.When we played with one striker we never scored from open play and tended to rely on set pieces.Lukaku will develop into a top striker unless he gets badly injured.

Kieran Fitzgerald
52 Posted 01/10/2015 at 11:54:06
It would be interesting to see how Harry Kane’s game has been this season. He has only scored once and I wonder if he has been invisible on the pitch altogether or still contributing well in other ways.

With Lukaku, it’s either a feast or a famine. There are full games when he was as well off sitting in the stands for all he contributed. Then you get the second half against West Brom. You can say it’s laziness, a lack of shrewdness, not being worth the price tag or still learning.

For me, it’s consistency. I would rather see him score a goal a game and contribute consistently rather than two goals today and invisible for a couple of games.

Tony Abrahams
53 Posted 01/10/2015 at 12:24:08
Graham, I think it's his anticipation that needs to improve more than anything.

They say the first five yards are in the brain, and if you consider Lukaku is the only player who gets marked by two players, then he's got to improve upstairs.

He got a slower pass off McCarthy when he made the second goal, but wasn't it great to see him back in, before coming towards the ball? It was even better to see him back in again once he had the ball under control.

If he can master this part of his game, he can become a great player for me. If he doesn't he might still get goals, but his overall value to the team will never become great.

Eric Myles
54 Posted 01/10/2015 at 12:34:21
Charles (#49), it’s not a question if wanting Rom to run around to win the ball back but more a case of what Chris (#42) said.
Tony Abrahams
55 Posted 01/10/2015 at 12:46:28
Thanks for the memories John. A lifeless Russian, and the reason, I would always question David Moyes, when it comes to building a great football team.

If we are talking about patience, then no Everton manager was ever given more. It worked out great for our owners, because he done a very good job, all things considered. But we became a club, that never looked like, ever winning anything again.

Still not sure fully, on the man who took over, but he looks like he's learning, and through what he was left, and what he's brought in, we now have a very good squad.

So for that alone your right Jim, let's give them the patience that's required, and let's see where it takes us.

Laurie Hartley
56 Posted 01/10/2015 at 13:52:32
Chris (#49) – I think your comment makes a lot of sense:

"Some people seem to think he should be running around like mad trying to win the ball back off the defenders and because he is not doing this think he must be lazy."

A couple of things dawned on me after watching the game against West Brom game live and then a reply:

1. Lukaku is not built like a terrier or long distance runner – he is built like a sprinter – for speed. I am therefore no longer going to expect him to chase everything.

2. Fullbacks are so scared of Deulofeu getting to the line that they are over compensating by standing too close to it themselves. This is leaving space behind them that Deulofeu is smart and fast enough to exploit by crossing quickly.

You can almost guarantee Deulofeu will do one of three things if given the ball:

1. Lose it on the edge of the box;
2. Put it on the penalty spot;
3. Get to the line and fizz it across the six yard box.

He expects someone to be on the end of scenarios 2 & 3.

If Lukaku positions himself on the 18-yard line when Deulofeu gets the ball, and then makes for the near post via the penalty spot using his natural gifts (strength & speed) he will score a lot of goals.

Let’s hope he gets 2 or 3 of them against the Reds.

Roll on Sunday and a derby without our bogeyman in it.

Ged Simpson
57 Posted 01/10/2015 at 13:58:32
It is worth noting that every single one of us has talked bollocks in the heat of the moment... and, after consideration, long may it continue!
Ray Roche
58 Posted 01/10/2015 at 14:30:09
Nigel (#44),

I thought exactly the same thing myself but posted the comment anyway.

John (#47),

"You could, you can and they certainly will." They could and they have. Mind you, Lukaku should know better than to give them the ammunition to write such crap.

Gary Russell
61 Posted 01/10/2015 at 15:20:34
I was just watching the highlights of the WBA game on FootyTube. The first goal, Howard could have sprinted out quicker and put his body on the line, I reckon... but that needs to be in your make-up, your personality... and maybe he doesn’t want to get injured.

I threw myself into everything when I played. Maybe not the best idea but it was all or nothing for me. It is also very possible that me watching replays a few times, allows me to see this and Howard, has to make a decision in a split second.

Dennis Ng
64 Posted 01/10/2015 at 15:52:36
Nice article and great comments. I do agree with comments that we’re probably one of the more patient fanbases among European contenders, but the bigger trend of diminishing patience along with big money plays are probably the perception that unfortunately caught up with us from time to time.

I never thought of a club being too big to get relegated nor too small to win trophies. 20 years with no trophy might be much to our illustrious history but I never believed that we should use our history as a gauge for current success. I want our club to win trophies but I’m realistic about our chances. I do feel very optimistic about the current on-field performances and hopefully that will lead trophies and perhaps more investments from outside the club.

Kone will definitely get an extension IMO. Even with bit part contributions, his link up play is massive in gelling our frontlines. I would think he will be with us for a few more years supporting/mentoring his possible replacements. If he becomes a 10+ goals striker for us, his fee is going to be a steal.

Eddie Dunn
65 Posted 01/10/2015 at 17:48:58
Kieran (#52), Regarding Harry Kane, I went to Spurs v Man City last weekend and courtesy of a mate, we had seats at pitch side.

Kane worked tirelessly, often going out to the wings to pick up a pass. He wasn’t afraid to shoot and eventually he got his just desserts and scored himself.

He has intelligence, is quicker than I expected, and works hard. Add to all that a level-headed attitude, and you have a super player. I noticed on MotD that Ruud Gullit suggested that he may be a Number 10.

I think Rom is more powerful and perhaps quicker once off the mark, but Kane is clever and brings others into play.

Danny O'Neill
70 Posted 03/10/2015 at 10:49:50
Very balanced. I too believe the harsh criticism of Lukaku goes a bit overboard. Clearly opinions are entitled and will vary but I just feel there are many who are a bit trigger happy on the keyboard when thing aren't going to plan after 20 minutes. I guess the power of the internet enables us to publicly vent frustration that would otherwise have remained a four letter expletive constrained within the walls of a living room and heard only by a cowering dog curled up in the corner. Debate is good but in line with the theme of this article, patience should be applied before passing judgement.

On Lukaku specifically, for what it's worth, I think he has the raw ingredients to become a top striker bearing in mind he won't peak until the age of 26-28. The key point being "top striker". A creative midfielder he is not so he will be judged by me on his ability to score goals and so far he's doing alright. I was fortunate enough to witness Linekar in an Everton shirt. Now whilst the years (and wine) have blurred the memories, if I recall, and how I saw it, couldn't make a decent pass, couldn't beat a man with the ball at his feet if faced with an opponent and generally wasn't a particularly gifted footballer. However, he was quick, used this to get behind defenders and knew where the goal was; 40 goals (all competitions) is how Gary is remembered, not because we compared his footballing skills to that of Maradona. Similarly, Rom will never be Messi and will continue to frustrate for long periods of games. That's what strikers do but as long he scores, he's fine with me!

Darren Hind
71 Posted 03/10/2015 at 16:55:27
I find it amusing and supremely ironic that Victor Anichebe's name is used as a defence against claims of hypocrisy Anichebe probably suffered more verbal attacks than any other player in Everton's history. I can even remember his name being booed as it was announced BEFORE a game.

I'm beginning to suspect it's okay to slaughter a player if he's not very good yet criticising a player with far more ability for putting in similar performances is okay? Twisted logic that. Especially if you read John Daley's post.

People like Ossie and Hibbo have been murdered after giving everything they have. When a player openly admits he hasn't given his all, he deserves all he gets.

Some people need an arm around the shoulder to give their best, some respond better to a kick up the arse. Read John Daley's post and decide which category you feel Lukaku falls into.

If Lukaku had shown the sort of focus and desire he showed in the second half against West Brom, he would already be considered one of Europe's top striker's When he is in one of his can't be arsed moods. He is most definitely a waste of a shirt.

I cannot for the life of me understand how anybody can attack frustrated fans for hammering some of his lack lustre performance's... it's as if you believe that because he has talent, he is untouchable, we should accept his cant be arsed days because he may come good and score.

God luck with that little notion next time you visit the Old Lady.

Danny O'Neill
72 Posted 03/10/2015 at 18:44:38
Darren, he’s still relatively young therefore will make mistakes and lose focus as all young players do. I take it you are someone who does everything to 100% standard absolutely 100% of the time? If you do, impressive as I don’t and also don’t know anyone who performs 100% all of the time regrdless of walk of life.

Thing is we have an exciting bunch of youngsters coming through but they are youngsters; they will make mistakes, frustrate and not perform to exceptional standards all of the time... However, given time,and providing we keep them together, I’ve not been as excited about an Everton side for literally decades.

Darren Hind
73 Posted 03/10/2015 at 19:13:21
Danny,

You are stating the blindingly obvious. It’s not worth even answering your question about people performing 100% all the time. Nobody expects it. Read the posts.

Every Evertonian is entitled to expect that that our players give 100% effort (regardless of how old they may be). If they do that, then we can ask no more.

If by their own admission they haven’t given their all, they should expect to be hammered.

This "he’s only 22 so we shouldn't expect him to give everything, everytime" is utter garbage.

BTW; I wasn’t one of those who criticised Lukaku, never have been. I even predicted on the Live Forum that he would score and we would turn it around... but I fully understand and support the right of others to voice their opinion.

Danny O'Neill
74 Posted 03/10/2015 at 19:51:01
Darren,

If I'm stating the obvious then I apologise but then maybe the obvious is reality.

I also apologise if you think my opinion is "utter garbage". I don't think that of yours.

I actually agree with you; we as Evertonians should always expect (demand) 100% from every player who walks out in a blue shirt.

As a coach who spent a long time in Germany, I do admit I have issue with the "give your all" and "effort" piece. That will only get you so far, ultimately quality is what will achieve success.

Sorry fellow blue, I was just trying to put things in perspective from how I see it. Players and in particular young players will have good days and bad days regardless of the amount of perceived effort they have put in but ultimately quality will shine through.

Jim Lloyd
75 Posted 03/10/2015 at 20:43:33
Jim, you’ve written an excellent post and timely too.

To me, our lads are becoming a good team. How good, only time will tell. I don’t see any of them going out there and being lazy or have can’t be bothered attitudes.

I think, as young lads our best players sometimes aren’t doing the right things, or don’t expect the ball to come or whatever, maybe they even get despondent at times when their game isn’t going right.

I sat through a lot of games last season and watched Ross Barkley lose his way.; A lad who has got what it takes, to become a great player. Whether it ever all comes out or not depends on many things, Maturity, coaching, confidence, learning to apply instinctive skill into deadly passing, when to part with the ball and effort.

I heard supporters booing him last season and just thought it so counter productive. When the lad was finding it hard, as he did last season, my view is that we should back him as much as we can and to do all we can to help his confidence.

The same with Gerry and Rom. I don’t see them being lazy, or not bothering. I see it more of them forgetting the other aspects of the game.

I don’t ever see them coming off the pitch and not being covered in sweat.

The role, as I see as a supporter, is to try and instil as much confidence in my limited way, that I can. That, |I don’t think, is mindless uncritical, support. It is about doing whatever I can, to see our team win, or at least not lose.

I hear a miserable bastard behind me who is constantly critical of our players. I mean it Constantly. He either whinges or is quiet and he has an apprentice now, who is like a bloody younger version.

We could have a whole debate about the psychology of the effects of crowds on players.

Well, I’m not a psychologist all I know is that it seems basic commonsense, that if you support someone, it will help their confidence.

Yep,criticism is part of the game as well but I think there are some who prefer to criticise as a first resort and it’s the manner of criticism that makes a difference too. I look at Rom and think we have one of the best young forwards, no, best forwards, who has not yet reached anything like his full potential.

Gerry, what a player, yet he’ll drop bollocks because he is a naturally brilliant player, who always believes he can waltz through a team. He’ll learn, and we might have another great player on our hands.

We can get frustrated but it will be a long time before I boo any of our players. I think it does no good at all.

Tomorrow, we’ll be up for it and we’ll be carrying our players along and hopefully to a win.

We can and do make a difference. Just how much, depends on us.

Get on their backs and the likelihood is, they will freeze, or a best get rid of the ball as quick as they can.

Darren Hind
76 Posted 03/10/2015 at 21:44:58
No Jim (Lloyd)

You say you agree with Jim (Knightley's) OP but you are not even talking about the same thing.

Nobody knows the effect a crowd's criticism will have on a player or a manager; they are just as likely to adopt an I'll-show-you attitude as they are to crumble... but, if he doesn't hear it, how can it have any effect at all ?

The OP complains about comments made on the live forum. about Lukaku. How on earth can anything said on the live forum have a detrimental effect on a guy who's playing at the time ?

Until this season I had never experienced the live forum and yes, it has to be said, emotions run very high, Perhaps those complaining about things said in the passion of the moment, don't feel the same passion, or are just more composed? Who knows... like you, I'm no expert.

I don't recall the Shaqiri threads on TW, but I'm fully aware of them because on several occasions the author of this article has come on and complained about the comments made on them... The irony is, by doing so he merely perpetuates them.

Last time I looked, this was still a free country, you have to accept other people will have different opinions to your own. You can't stop people giving their opinion just because you don't agree with them.

Darren Hind
77 Posted 03/10/2015 at 21:59:58
Danny, I agree. Quality will trump effort all day long, but Very few sportsmen – no matter how talented – get to the top without having sweated blood to get there.
Jim Lloyd
78 Posted 03/10/2015 at 22:48:44
Darren, yes I was talking about the same thing. I wasn't however, just talking about Rom, nor, do I think, was Jim. I'm talking about patience (or lack of it) as was Jim. He appears to have concentrated his comments to posts on ToffeeWeb about Rom; but he can speak for himself.

As in the posts, so in the match. It's a fair bet to say theat little damage coems form comments on ToffeeWeb; but I think it can lead to a mindset

I would disagree with anyone who says that nobody knows the effect that a crowd has on a player.

On a live forum, no, it's not going to affect a player but I got fed up of the totally negative comments of some posters and hardly go on it now.

I'm just translating those self same negative responses to our players at the match. As Jim has focussed on Rom, he also made the same plea for patience for all our players, young players especially.

You are right, a player can't be hurt by the negative posts on ToffeeWeb but I believe he certainly can when those are translated into boos at the match, as in the case of Ross Barkley.

I believe that the crowd has a massive part to play, for good or bad. To a degree, it might have a different effect on some players but why take that attitude, why take the risk of knocking a kid's confidence?

As I said. The miserable bugger behind me has paid his money, he can practise his right as a paying customer and boo to his hearts content. He is the most miserable bugger it has been my misfortune to have near me over 50 years of going to the match. Whether that does any good to either the players or to other supporters is a moot point.

As I said, I don't believe Rom is lazy or disinterested. He can be clumsy, he can look lost at times but the more the team learns to play to his strengths, the more effective he will be.

By the way, I'm a democrat and fully believe in people airing there opinions, just as I have the right to oppose them.


Dave Abrahams
79 Posted 03/10/2015 at 00:04:18
Good debate by the two Jims and Darren, just a small point, why doesn't Lukaku play to the team's strengths, seems to me it would be easier for one player to get into tune with the other ten, rather than the other way round.
Jim Knightley
80 Posted 04/10/2015 at 01:03:49
Darren - comments made on the live forum, and on ToffeeWeb forums, or on Twitter or elsewhere are representative of views, opinions etc. These are often represented or depicted in the media (Sometimes as the result of fan unrest/campaigns etc), or are on some occasions produced by the media. This is not about controlling opinions, but asking for perspective and patience.

There is too much sensationalism about now, and too little patience. I don’t think it’s useful for fans on here, or in the stadium. I, on a personal level, do not want to dread reading the comments from a story relating positive comments from Martinez on ToffeeWeb.

On a personal level, I also do not want the fans reacting badly to Lukaku or Barkley’s lack of form (when they are out of form). Some players are impervious to fans, but those are rare. Most players are affected by the reception they receive, and I think Lukaku is certainly one of those. In that regard, I’d argue that he has been more successful away from home than at home of late.

My call for patience then, and to counter sensationalism, is meant for ToffeeWeb, but that does not mean I am reading ToffeeWeb, or the live forum, in isolation of our club and our support. ToffeeWebers are fans, and sometimes the most ardent, because we want to spend as much time as possible reading and discussing our club, and football.

You can bet then, that a general readiness to critique Lukaku or whoever is not specific to our online community. I feel that being a bit more patient with some our players makes sense, especially when there are extenuating circumstances. A post-World Cup period for Jagielka say, represents that, as does the ages of Barkley, Stones, Deulofeu, Lukaku etc.

I’m with Jim in terms of the translation of frustration. I feel that football fans in general need to be more patient, and I especially think that of my football club. I don’t think we should be quiet when things are wrong, and there are clear problems with the board. But we should be patient with a young and developing squad.

Darren Hind
81 Posted 04/10/2015 at 06:34:26
Jim/s

The match changes people. Who amongst us doesn't know at least one person who goes from being a calm, reasonable, nice guy outside the ground, to a snarling nark who thinks the world is conspiring against Everton, once inside?
Logic very often goes out of the window and frustration is often directed at our best players – the people we are counting on.

I do understand the point about about extreme views and abuse spoiling the enjoyment of others both at the match and on live forums, but we live in an I-want-it-now society. These days "patience" is a card game played by people who don't own a PC

Many posters are of a different age and background to you. They live different lives. Your moral compass is not theirs. They will support their team in a different way. You may not like it, but it doesn't make you right, or them wrong

Michael and Lyndon are really quite brave to put up a live forum. They know how highly charged things can get and how difficult it is to police.

Anyway. My lad told me yesterday that he can't make it today, so I won't be on the live forum. I'm having his seat.

If we win, a great joy will sweep across Evertonia, if we lose, frustration will inevitably boil over in the stands and on the live forum.

Let's hope our big center forward is in top form today and puts "them" to the sword. Then we'll all be happy.

Jim Lloyd
82 Posted 12/10/2015 at 09:18:03
Darren,

I’m not sure what you’re post is trying to say here. It’s agreed by me that, at the match, we can easily start snarling, and I often do: at some reffing decisions, at some scummy tackles on our players that go unpunished, at linesmen who seem to think their job is to skick their flag up in agreement with the ref at all times, unless the ref has given us something and the bloody linesman counters it with some bloody pathetic decision!

Don’t worry about it mate, I snarl alright. But the rest of your post seems to be about moral compasses and people of differing ages and backgrounds. Of course there is; but this isn’t about age or about what part of the moral compass anyone happens to follow. Nor do I see what living in a "we want it now" society has to do with going the match.

The feller behind me has an apprentice, so you have one miserable ould git and a miserable young git. They pay their money and, within the bounds of respect for other people at the match, they can express their views in whatever way they want.

Whether they are in any way, supporting their team is a moot point. I would say that in no way do they support their team. My view is the deliberate booing of a young player is an absolute negative effect.

I suppose that is why we generally boo players of the other team, as we’re showing them what we think of them and hopefully, trying to put them off in any way we can.

I fully accept and have advocated that people have different views and have said so.

Of course we can get frustrated at the match. Especially when we see our players drop a bollock. There is a massive difference, in my view, when Ross, Gerry or Rom, John or Brendan make a cock up.

Almost certainly I, along with most others will groan, swear (some may go "oh dear") or "Ooops" etc.

But that is totally different to the consistent booing that was directed at single players and, in particular, Ross Barkley, that I heard last season.

Patience isn’t just a game that’s played by those who don’t have a computer. It is also a quality which I believe will help our young players become the great players I’m hoping they’ll become.

Yes, not all will agree with Jim, or me, but that is the point of his article, I would think. That, when we single them out for the "boo" treatment it actually is working against the young players who we all (I hope) want to see become international class players for our club.

So, yes. Frustration is part of the emotional roller coaster of going the match. What the moaners get up to on the forum, is in my view counter productive: but it doesn’t affect the players.

At the match, I believe it does

Steve Carse
83 Posted 12/10/2015 at 10:06:03
Maybe I'm going deaf, or maybe I just sit in a very benign stand at GP, but I have never heard a player being booed for a mistake, Barkley included. Moaned and groaned at yes but booed, no.
Jim Lloyd
84 Posted 12/10/2015 at 10:27:28
Well Steve,
Your lucky!
Darren Hind
85 Posted 14/10/2015 at 03:21:24
Sorry, Jim, we're not going to agree here.

I can't for the life of me see how criticism on a live forum can't be counter productive.

I was actually on the live forum that night. Lukaku was having a complete Weston and was coming in for heavy flak. but I don't recall anything abusive, comments made in the first half, like "He's showing the touch of a lamp post" and "He's a waste of a shirt" were completely true (unless I was watching a different game). His first half performance was lamentable.

I'm not quite sure what you (or JK in his OP) actually want? Do you want people to say he's having a blinder when he's having a stinker? Do expect everyone to just say nothing? The live forum is for people to express their views on what they are watching.

Football is unrehearsed live entertainment; it's not a play or a movie, people don't wait until the end to give their opinion. They live every kick.

The good thing about the WBA game was that Lukaku turned it around and we won, but I've seen many a game when he hasn't and we haven't. Would Jim have penned this article if this proved to be one of those nights? I don't think so.

I'm with Steve Carse here. Before this season, I would have been at every Premier League game that Barkley and Lukaku had played for us and I have never heard the booing you talk about. I'm more than happy to accept that on a couple of occasions a hand full morons have booed and I hadn't heard it, but "consistent booing aimed at single players, especially Barkley"? Na, not at the matches I attended.

Barkley and Lukaku will become more consistent, but for all their obvious talent, both have serious flaws to their game. Anybody expecting Lukaku's first touch to improve now is (IMO) in for a big disappointment. They will continue to be criticised when they have poor games, people will become frustrated after pinning their hopes on them and that frustration will often boil over.

These are living the dream, they are being paid a fortune to do what they love doing, they have fame and wealth beyond most people's wildest... You have to accept they are going to have to take a little bit of rough with all that smooth.

By the way, Jim. I do hear all those groans when a move goes pear-shaped, but in 50 years of going the match, I never once heard anybody say "Ooops" or "Oh dear". Many fans spend their week anticipating the weekends "battle". It's the biggest thing in their week, their escape. To expect all of them to be gentle and mind their Ps 'n' Qs is (again IMO) a tad unrealistic.


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