Blues blow it at the death

After a difficult start Everton scored their first goal from a set-piece, an excellent header from Ramiro Funes Mori. Then, a brilliant strike from Lukaku off a great ball from Deulofeu. Bournemouth pulled one back and then equalized in a poor second half for Everton. Barkley got what looked to be the winner in stoppage time, but Stanislas powered in another equaliser in the 98th minute.

Michael Kenrick 28/11/2015 323comments  |  Jump to last

Tom Cleverley finally got some time on the field as a sub in the second-half
Bournemouth 3 - 3 Everton

For Everton's first ever trip to Dean Court in the League, Martinez started with his winning line-up once again, Baines still not being risked. Former Everton players, Distin and Gosling were in the home side.

Everton kicked off but played a longer ball forward giving The Cherries an early sight of the ball. Everton attacked but it was former Blue Dan Gosling who had the first scuffed attempt at goal. Lukaku and Deulofeu both dummied a Galloway pass and that saw the Cherries go forward again, Ritchie firing straight at Howard.

Deulofeu had a couple of chances to advance down the right but his crosses were not reaching Blue shirts, while Funes Mori playing long balls forward or crossfield in the blustery wind became guaranteed turnovers. Everton were struggling to take control of the game and King strode in to fire a good shot that required an even better save from Howard. Second warning.

Deulofeu could not get past Daniels but won a corner that Barry curled in, Federici going down when he landed awkwardly and Ref Friend eventually stopped the play, sub Allsop readying but, after a long stoppage, he stayed on.

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Everton were still having trouble playing forward, with Bournemouth marking well and pressing their visitors back in determined fashion. Daniels gave away another corner that was played back and ended up almost with Howard. Back-line tippy-tappy appeared briefly before Deulofeu curled one in over Lukaku with Kone firing in and, off the corner, Lukaku forced another save from the possibly injured keeper.

Much better from the Blues and they piled forward in the next attack, Barkley's shot blocked, McCarthy's drive saved, and a fourth corner powered in by Funes Mori, an excellent header from the Argentine defender to give the travelling Blues the lead they needed, and Everton's first League goal from a set-piece this season.

It was a little scrappy after that and the Cherries won their first series of corners, both defended away by the Blues. Barkley was being man-marked and finding it hard to get time on the ball but he did play Deulofeu in down the left. However, the Spaniard took too long to make the cross and lost the ball.

But from the back, Stones picked out Deulofeu, back on the right, and a quick ball on the outside of Lukaku gave him the chance to half-control the ball before firing in an excellent strike from a narrow angle between keeper and post, a superbly taken strike to give the Blues a commanding lead.

Howard came out for a cross but misjudged it and Stones had to get back and clear the bouncing ball off the line. Bournemouth tried tenaciously to get back into the game, giving the Blues something of a test before the break. McCarthy did well to give Deulofeu a great ball to run onto but he slipped as he crossed to Kone.

The home side came out in determined fashion after the break, despite having to swap out their keeper, and it needed a good intervention from Stones as the Cherries committed themselves forward. But Everton countered through Deulofeu and there seemed to be a worrying lack of conviction as the move just fizzled out. Barkley was still maddeningly playing the ball backwards on too many occasions, while Funes Mori's floated balls forward inevitably gave away possession. But they were containing the adventurous Bournemouth attacks effectively without really taking a stranglehold on the game.

Smith looked to round Galloway, but clipped him and the ref called it late after the linesman did not flag, much to the annoyance of the local yokels. It inspired another feisty attack, Daniels lashing in on Howard from wide left but Howard stood firm. At the other end, Coleman whipped in a cross for Lukaku but it was just too far ahead of the big man.

Most of the play, however, was in the Everton half, Richie's attempt deflected away for a corner, claimed by Howard as McCarthy, who had been a tiger all game, went down heavily. Martinez was happy with proceedings, however: no subs as the hour-mark passed.

Ominously, Bournemouth did get behind the Everton defence, Smith lashing an inviting ball across the face of goal, and another corner defended away, but the counter led by Lukaku and Kone was not fruitful. Barkley forced a forward run but Lukaku's return ball was off, as Tom Cleverley replaced McCarthy.

Ritchie, again in a very threatening position, lashed another shot straight at Howard. Another counter was wasted when Deulofeu played a weird lofted ball way too early, and Bournemouth won another corner but it was poorly executed.

More good attacking play from the home side saw Coleman and then Funes Mori making vital interceptions as Everton defended another clean sheet but seemed too lethargic going forward whenever they did reclaim possession. Another corner for the home side, defended away, it seemed, but Smith steadied himself and fired in a tremendous shot off the far post to give them hope of pulling back a 2-goal deficit again. Everton had only themselves to blame as they failed to press Smith.

Smith broke into the area but tripped himself as he ran across Galloway for a big penalty shout, denied by Friend who had to book Gosling for his protests. Lukaku had less of a shout at the other end as the last 10 minutes needed a change of plan from Everton, with Mirallas still languishing on the bench but it was Lennon who replaced Deulofeu.

Bournemouth attacked again off a free-kick and this time King cut in a ball that Stanislas smashed home to deny a lethargic Blues side two vital points. Everton finally woke up a little, but it was too little, too late, and a massive indictment of poor game management by Martinez.

Five minutes of added time meant hope and nervousness in equal measure, but the Blues had been too relaxed throughout the second half and were incapable of upping their game, Bournemouth coming close off yet another corner. Everton were scrambling at times and just so painfully slow when they did get the ball. But the counter finally paid off when after good work from Kone, Barkley spun on a loose ball from Coleman and drove it home for an undeserved but hugely welcome Everton win. Everton fans went crazy, invading the pitch in their jubilation.

Only this is football, this is Everton, and that's not quite how it ended, as Martinez bizarrely chose this moment to switch out Kone for Gibson, thus giving the ref justification for adding at least another minute when the game finally restarted, well beyond the minimum 5 mins. Bournemouth stormed the Everton goal from the restart, a pinpoint cross by that man Smith and Stanislas powered home a stunning header past Starman to deny the Blues a win. It had been a shocking second half from Everton under the circumstances, and probably those celebrations on the pitch costing Everton dear.

Scorers: Smith (82'), Stanislas (87', 90+8'); Funes Mori (25'), Lukaku (36'), Barkley (90+5')

Bournemouth: Federici (46' Allsop), Francis, Distin, Cook (46' Smith) , Daniels, Stanislas, Surman, Arter (75' Murray), Gosling [Y:], Ritchie, King.
Subs not Used: Cargill, MacDonald, O'Kane, Kermorgant.

Everton: Howard, Coleman, Galloway, Stones, Mori, McCarthy (67' Cleverley), Barry, Deulofeu (86' Lennon), Barkley, Kone (90+5' Gibson), Lukaku.
Subs not Used: Robles, Osman, Mirallas, Naismith.

Referee: Kevin Friend

Attendance: 11,228

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Reader Comments (323)

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Chris Gould
1 Posted 28/11/2015 at 15:01:08
No reason to change anything. I fully expect a win today. A brace from Lukaku.
Max Murphy
2 Posted 28/11/2015 at 15:20:13
No talk. Thrash them - 3 points. Anything less, we should be ashamed of ourselves
Ant Ellis
3 Posted 28/11/2015 at 15:52:10
Does anyone know of a decent streaming site that doesn't require registration?
Phil Smith
4 Posted 28/11/2015 at 16:48:43
I can't bloody believe this!!! How is Kone still on the field? That 1st goal was totally his fault. We better win this or I will not go to Everton again this season!
Peter Jansson
5 Posted 28/11/2015 at 16:53:40
How can Marinez have Kone on the field!!!??????
He has been completely useless.
Mirallas is cleary needed.
Wake up Martinez!
Peter Gorman
7 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:01:11
Disgraceful morons!
Frank McGregor
8 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:02:02
Peter Poster 4, I totally agree both Kone and Barkley should have been off 10 minutes after half time. Very poor second half.

Top six is out of the question on this display. I am a supporter of Martinez, however, he miss read this game completely.

Gavin Johnson
9 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:02:18
Wow! That was a great game for the neutral but was sickening to concede after Ross pulled some magic out of the hat.

To be fair to Bournemouth they deserved the point. We were awful in the 2nd half. I'm sure some of the players and fans alike thought that was a sure 3 points at half time. I'm going to put that 2 points lost down to complacency.

Ian Riley
10 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:03:48
That is why the top four is beyond us!
Tony Hill
11 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:04:46
I'm afraid that is a killing result and we can have no complaints at all. The second half was a disgrace but, far more importantly, it reveals that we just do not have what it takes, no steel no intelligence, no leadership.

I am not a knee-jerker; this is in my view a pivotal result for the team and it's a great shame.

Colin Hughes
12 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:06:28
As I said on here after Villa last week..Consistency is the word.That is why we won't trouble the top 4, We were 2-0 up with ten minutes to go against a team second from bottom and still manage to concede three goals. We can't seem to put two or three wins on the bounce and certainly can't keep back to back clean sheets, a feat even Sunderland managed this week, which will be ultimately costly in the long run.
Paul Andrews
13 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:08:58
Not good enough to get the third goal in 95th minute then can’t close the game out.

We need to see games out, an 'arl arse team would break the play up with an injury here and a foul in their half there. One criticism I would have is we are too nice.

Peter Gorman
15 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:09:45
Bournemouth wouldn't have 'deserved a point' if the second half hadn't been such arrogant stupidity from Everton. Who here did not see this coming?

I thought I would just have to nit-pick at the hopelessness of Barkley and Kone's contributions but the whole team and manager can take a bow.

I am doing a complete 180 on Mirallas now; sell the guy for whatever we can get. If he can't play today what is the point in having him.

Tony Hill
16 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:11:59
It's our apparently incurable disease: no guts to go for the throat, no ultimate self-belief. It's what's damaged us, on and off, over the last 25 years and, in truth, even beyond that.

Sorry to be so miserable but I repeat that I think that result tells us a great deal about our club and none of it is good.

Frank Sheppard
17 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:12:37
To concede 3 in the last 10 to 15 minutes is terrible. Wake up at the back!! :-(
Mark Frere
18 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:13:35
That second half really is as bad as it gets! The players should be absolutely ashamed of themselves! No closing down, completely took our foot off the pedal. In the end, we were just a disorganised mess!

Conor Skelly
19 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:13:52
I had 50 knicker on Everton today. After the Barkley goal my money was in the bank, or at least it should have been. To concede like that beggars belief.

A truly pathetic second half. Reminded me of last season. It could be a very damaging result. I’m now worried about all our upcoming games. Only Everton...

Tony Abrahams
21 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:16:10
Haven’t watched the game, but closing my eyes and visualising it, would tell me that we have tried to cruise the second half and conserve energy for Tuesday night.

Same thing happened when the fans booed us off the pitch against QPR, last season and led to us having a disastrous Christmas.

What the fuck is it having a decent-sized squad, if every time the team get a good lead, they never really try and go for the opponent's jugular? He said losing leads in the first two games last year affected the season, so what will today do for the team?

Middlesboro is a massive match now, and if he makes changes again for this game, it will make even more of a mockery out of today’s second-half showing.

Kuli Maingi
22 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:17:09
Paul Andrews (#12), bang on that, we need a bit of game management by being less nice, go down injured, a mistimed tackle or something.

This feels like a defeat today, will be even more annoyed if Roberto doesn’t call the second half unacceptable too!

Brian Wilkinson
23 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:17:13
It's the seventies all over again, a team challenging but dropping points to having an average at best goalkeeper.

This is not a dig at Howard, he knows no matter how well Robles plays on Tuesday, Howard will be back in goal for the next league game.

Until Martinez grows a pair and give Robles a chance in the league, Howard will not up his game. I've said it many times on here, we need to sign a top class goalkeeper in January.

Mark Rimmer
24 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:17:14
I couldn’t bring myself to cheer when Barkley scored at the death, I just felt sorry for Bournemouth because it looked like they were going to lose to a bunch of arrogant pricks who felt they didn’t need to bother getting out of first gear in the second half to win the match.

Good on them to go on and equalize, hopefully another lesson learned for the manager and team. The score is irrelevant to me... just so disappointed with the attitude in the second half.

Michael Ward
25 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:17:23
I genuinely am blaming that on the ref. There was about 10 secs on the clock when we scored; ref played about another minute.
Tom Dodds
26 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:17:33
This manager is taking us nowhere. A small think-tank of switched-on fans would do a far better job.

Fed up of the endlessless fuckin favouritism from this slow-witted incompetent.


Tony Marsh
27 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:19:53
How did Kone last beyond 60 minutes? Why did RM make a sub after we scored 3rd goal, adding a minute to the clock? What the fuck is going on in the mind of the manager?

Why is Mirallas not getting any game time when others struggle?... Think we all knew what was coming after their first goal but to chuck it away around the 100th minute mark? WTF???

Jay Wood
28 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:20:27
I think that performance safely knocks on the head the nonsensical chatter of some that we are potentially title contenders this season.

In cruise control at half time, I would like to think our manager saw from the sideline what (I presume) the majority of Blues saw in the second half ... the team needed geeing up as they were sleepwalking around the park.

Now I think Kone has been excellent this season and pivotal in how we have improved on last season. Similarly, Galloway has stepped in and done well.

However, today, Kone had a mare, couldn't control or pass the ball to a blue shirt and was not helping out Galloway in dealing with the Bournemouth sub Smith who carried most of their threat in the 2nd half.

The manager did nothing to address these issues. His first sub was a forced one with Cleverly on for the injured McCarthy. His other two subs were so late in the game they were meaningless.

That game was crying out for Mirallas to be introduced at the hour stage. Other than 'saving' Kevin as a starter for the mid-week cup game, I can't think of any reason he wasn't subbed in ... and even that is no reason. We needed the result TODAY!

Even so, it appeared that Ross had won it for us at the death. How galling the mini-pitch invasion added time to the game for them to equalize.

The loss of two points today is down to Roberto for not being pro-active enough to shake up the team and make necessary changes at crucial times in the second half.

Peter Bell
29 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:21:36
Michael, you actually blaming the ref... what you smoking mate?
Kase Chow
30 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:22:06
We lack mental strength.
James Stewart
31 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:22:06
@15 agreed. As bad a half as I have seen us play. Shipping 3 against a team in the bottom 3 is a clear statement of our defensive ability. Utterly shambolic and disgraceful at this level. Feel like a defeat, sickening.
Michael Ward
32 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:23:33
We took our foot off the gas and when Bournemouth made it 2-2 I was blaming Martinez all day it was as if we were purposefully inviting them on to counter but that 3rd goal is on the ref for me
Mike Powell
33 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:25:04
Absolutely disgusting second half display: two-nil up against a poor side, why bring Lennon on? I just don't get it...

If we can’t beat a poor Bournemouth side after being two-nil up, then we can forget about a top four finish. I should be used to it with Everton but it still hurts.

Eddie Dunn
34 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:25:47
So many people were also complacent prior to this fixture. Two points thrown away, with a second-half performance of total ineptitude. Barkley (despite his late goal) was a joke, and Kone was just awful. The manager must have set them up to sit deep and pick off a third goal on the counter attack.

Martinez should have put Mirallas on for the last half-hour. He ceded the control of the first half and the Cherries took full advantage.

If we can’t see out a game like that, then we will not progress to win the League Cup. It was just like a Cup game, Barnsley, Reading or even West Ham last season. No nous, not cynical enough.

Our defence was torn to shreds. Galloway has got away with a lot so far, but his positioning is poor, and once McCarthy was eliminated, we saw that Barry was caught for pace.

And as for Barkley... a luxury who will never be a great player. Sell him while his stock is high.

Tony Twist
35 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:27:20
The curse of being an Evertonian! There is only one team that can time and time again make you sick to your stomach.

Lose to ten men? We can do that... Just not turn up even at home? We can do that... draw after scoring in added time to go ahead in the match, we can do that. Very unprofessional but that’s the Martinez way.

How many cheap goals conceded until we get someone to sort out the way we defend. Opportunity lost... roll on, Boro, for the next embarrassment. Prove me wrong, please, Martinez.

Peter Bell
36 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:27:44
Michael at 3 -2 we only needed to get the ball, but didn’t... so let's blame the ref.
Peter Z Jones
37 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:27:49
I’m not going to pretend like we didn’t bring that fiasco on ourselves by not caring in the 2nd half.

However, when we score on literally the last kick of the ball and there are no subs or injuries in the 5 minutes of added time played, why the fuck does the ref play on for another 2 minutes???

The game was over. But of course we have to support the team that can’t even get a win after we’ve won. Fuck Premier League referees.

Phil Sammon
38 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:29:12
Blaming the ref is absolutely fucking pathetic.

We should have strode away at half time.
Mirallas should have come on to cause problems. After our ’winner’, we should have been able to shut up shop for thirty seconds. Nobody to blame but the gaffer. Pathetic.

Nev Renshaw
39 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:32:42
James (25). You're right, it did feel like a defeat. Shambolic.

Dennis Ng
40 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:33:50
It's a damn shame to drop points, credit to Bournemouth for being relentless, but thinking we can cruise in the second half is naivety bordering on insanity. RM and the whole team needs a kick up their rear end if we're to make it to the top half of the table, never mind top 4 or even Europe.

Well, I'm rooting for Vardy to write his own history next.

Aaron Underwood
41 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:34:58
Kone was so poor in the second half. I think the tactics we played in the second half don’t really work without McCarthy on the pitch either, the defence had no protection.
Gavin Johnson
42 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:36:16
I think blaming Martinez is pathetic, Phil. He brought Gibson on for the final seconds as a defensive minded player to see the game out. He did his part. You can’t legislate for the players switching off after thinking they’d won it.

I was also crying out for Kone to come off for Mirallas. I also thought Ossie should have come on for Barkley who was having a quiet game. It turned out they combined for the third goal. So people are being a bit harsh here.

Gerard McGregor
43 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:36:56
Martinez should have made changes at half-time - Mirallas was looking sharp on his recent brief showings. Martinez needs to show faith in those on the bench and give those of his "best" XI (i) the occasional rest from Premier league action and (ii) a reminder of the competition for their position in the team.

What is the value of a good bench when you don't use it? There is a risk of loosing both the disillusioned on the bench and the "stars" on the field, if Martinez does not get a grip of using the squad to optimal effect.

Ian Riley
44 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:36:58
Still in shock! A 95th goal and still we draw! Sorry, I cannot blame the manager for this one. Total unprofessional by the players. To score three and not win to a team likely to be relegated is disgraceful.

A 2-0 lead with 10 minutes left shows everything about our defensive mindset and coaching. Thank you to the players for making my evening a pleasant one!!! I hope the players are in training tomorrow at 8am!

Wayne McNee
45 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:37:12
Just sat in a pub in Bournemouth & can’t help but think we deserved that. They were down & out.

Where we went wrong (like it or not) was that 3rd goal celebration. Players & fans need to have a word with themselves. Players went nuts, straight over to celebrate with fans who also went nuts. Basically a pile on in the corner for a minute. Police & stewards all over the place.

How at this level do you keep your concentration for the dying seconds. Simple answer. You can’t after that & we didn’t. Also a bad day for Howard. There was no velocity in any of them goals!

Matt Traynor
46 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:38:59
Peter #30, in case you missed it, we scored in the 5th minute of injury time, then there was a delay due to a pitch invasion (like we'd won the League, not scored a "winner" at fucking Bournemouth). The ref had to add on additional time after that.

Rhetorical question, but if there'd been no interruption and the game had restarted, how long would've been added on?

Christy Ring
47 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:39:04
Disgusted, absolutely livid. The 2nd half, a shambles, sitting back and letting Bournemouth dictate. Mirallas should have been on for Kone, disgraceful, and Martinez is treating him like dirt.

Everyone on here who have complained about McCarthy, eat your words, our midfield was toothless and our back four completely exposed when he went off.

Still furious.

Peter Bell
48 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:39:46
RM just said the performance was strong, we don’t focus on results we focus on performances... I can't listen to the prick any more.

My money is on Funes Mori getting dropped on Tuesday for having the audacity of scoring from a set piece...

Andy Walker
49 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:40:47
That performance epitomises very thing about a Martinez team, good and mostly, bad.

As for some of the fans acting like we'd just won the league as opposed to scoring at Bournemouth, plain embarrassing.

The ref played longer due the stoppage to clear those fans.

Ross Edwards
50 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:41:22
Unbelievable. I cannot believe what I've just watched. Throwing away such a comfortable lead like that in embarrassing circumstances. In the 2nd half we totally switched off, were too complacent and paid the price. Deservedly so.

A dreadful, unprofessional, tactically inept second half which cost us dearly. Where was the organisation? We just fell apart in laughable fashion. Hopefully I'm proved wrong but a collapse like this is why we won't get Champions League football anytime soon.

It was Wiganesque, that last 15 minutes. Defensive organisation went totally out of the window. Where's the leadership?

Absolutely sickened.

John Daley
51 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:41:50
To go from being two goals up at half time, against the worst team in the league, to hanging on in the final few minutes is bad enough, but to then let a second winning position slip in the blink of an eye is unforgivable. Absolutely scandalous not to secure the points from that situation. I don't know what was said to those players at half time but they came back out on to the pitch like it was already job done in their mind and it was enough just to meander through the motions from thereon out.

People debating whether this Everton team are currently equipped to challenge for a Champions League place have only to look at the evidence of this game for an answer. It sums up these players and Martinez's management to a tee. Good stuff in patches when under little pressure but no nous or nerve when needed.

The over the top celebration of the third goal was a case in point. Utterly unnecessary and naive in the extreme. You may think it's the winner but that's not the case until the whistle blows. Get back in your own half and get your mind focused on finishing the game and securing the three points rather than basking in premature glory. Reddy Brek for brains the lot of them.

Tony Draper
52 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:42:59
Thanks very much to the travelling fans today, your support was brilliant.

But to the complete fucking morons who invaded the pitch, cheers you bunch of fuckin beauts! That invasion lead to an extra 2 minutes play.

If you can’t keep off the pitch, then don’t go the match!

William Cartwright
53 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:43:10
Bournemouth deserved the point and they are much better side than their league position shows.

Yes, we were poor in the 2nd half. Shame Martinez didn’t see what everyone else in the ground could; Kone was off the pace today and really should have been subbed early after half-time if not sooner, for his own sake as much as the team. I believe Kevin Mirallas at that point would have greatly increased our chance of all 3 points.

Credit to Barry for another assured performance. Full credit though must go to Bournemouth for grabbing the initiative after half-time. They have been extremely unlucky since the start of the season and yet somehow never seem to give in. Now that is what I call good team management...

Frank Crewe
54 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:43:34
This is what happens when the players believe the hype. 2-0 up at half time. We’re god’s gift we are! Well they’re not. A game is is 90 minutes long not 45. The big win disguised the two goal lead we gave away to Sunderland but this will be harder to excuse. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned.

There was an article in the Echo this week comparing Rom, Geri and Ross to Kendall, Ball and Harvey. In their dreams. This is the kind of nonsense the younger players have been reading.

They have to learn when you are well on top you don’t give the opposition an inch whether they are the league leaders or the relegation favourites. There is no room for complacency. Finish them off!!!

Gavin Johnson
55 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:44:23
Well it could be least we don't follow Newcastle! Who's betting Moyes will be their new boss by the end of next week.
Colin Glassar
56 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:48:13
Spot on Frank. Every time I hear our players go on about what they think we can achieve we always seem to struggle in the following game. Like the old adage goes, "do your talking on the pitch". This definitely feels like a defeat and I hope they feel shite after that 2nd half performance.
John Daley
57 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:49:23
"I think blaming Martinez is pathetic....He brought Gibson on for the final seconds as a defensive minded player to see the game out. He did is part. You can't legislate for the players switching off after thinking they'd won it."

He should have been going mental at them to get their arses back where they should be and reminding them the job wasn't done yet. The introduction of Gibson was obviously to run down a little time not add any defensive solidity. Another pointless decision that was more likely to add momentary confusion into the ranks, especially at a crucial time when concentration and just keeping your shape was all that was required.

Mike Keating
58 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:49:50
Did I hear RM right? I’m sure in the post match interview, he said "We are interested in performances, not results."?!?

Well the second half performance threw away 2 points. So the performance was crap and so was the result.

Peter Z Jones
59 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:50:35
Phil, I prefaced my distaste for the referee's decision with the acknowledgment of our 2nd half failures. We were crap and brought this on ourselves. I thought all our sitting back nonsense with 1-0 leads last season would have taught us that our best defense is attack, especially against a team as defensively frail as Bournemouth.

But if you say there are 5 minutes to play, we score in that minute, the restart is at 6, and then we play on for another minute, I'm going to be annoyed even if we don't concede because it doesn't make any sense why we're still playing. It's highly relevant to the end result and I've chosen to highlight it rather than shit on Ross Barkley or Kone or whomever because he had one bad/mediocre game.

Jay Wood
60 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:51:14
Gavin @ 34

"blaming Martinez is pathetic ... He brought Gibson on for the final seconds as a defensive minded player to see the game out. He did his part."

What a corker! Did you keep a straight face when writing that Gavin, or do you really believe it?

Wayne @ 36

"a bad day for Howard. There was no velocity in any of them goals!"

I think you need to see the goals again. The first was a rip snorter. No blame from me for TH today. The threat for their goals was not stifled at source. Appropriate subs at key moments would have helped, too.

John Pickles
61 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:51:48
There is a difference between the teams that challenge for major silverware and the teams that don't. The former win games when they are dominant, this shows why we are one of the latter.
Max Murphy
62 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:52:02
A disgrace! What was RM’s half-time talk about?

"Two-up, lads... take it easy – don’t waste energy."

All the recent talk about a top 4 finish is an absolute joke. We will never do anything with that Spanish clown in charge. It was a complete embarrassment, and if anything, Bournemouth deserved the win after our terrible second half.

Where do we go from here? Let’s try middle to bottom half of the table.

Ian Stewart
63 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:52:40
John Daley @41, Tony Draper @42 – Martinez made a sub in the melee after the 3rd goal, this leads to an additional 30 seconds for Bournemouth from the KO. Any thoughts?
Chris Owens
64 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:53:05
Every season our hopes are built up, and then knocked down. Even in the mid-80s, with possibly our best ever team, we handed the double to the RS. This is what being an Evertonian is all about.
Eugene Kearney
65 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:58:17
Should have taken Kone off and put Naissy on at the same time as Cleverley came on. That’s what I said to myself a few minutes beforehand.... only got half a wish!!
Kunal Desai
66 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:58:18
You shouldn’t be throwing away a 2-0 lead against Bournemouth if you're aspiring to get into the top four. All this talk of challenging the top 4 really must stop. We are not consistently good enough.
Nitesh Kanchan
67 Posted 28/11/2015 at 17:59:35
They should have gone for a game-killer 3rd goal. Very poor decision to sit back on a two-goal lead. Let's hope some lessons learnt today.
Andy Walker
68 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:00:00
5 minutes extra time doesn't mean there will be exactly 5 minutes, but rather a minimum of 5 minutes. The fans that lost their cool and invaded the pitch made it easy for the ref to add more time.
Frank Crewe
69 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:02:59
Colin it's a long ride home from Bournemouth. I hope they're butthurt all the way. If Liverpool and West Ham win tomorrow instead of being 6th one point behind Spurs they will find themselves 9th. All because they couldn't concentrate for a measly 90 minutes.

Matthew Williams
70 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:03:12
I am going to blame the draw on the morons who ran onto the pitch, call it Karma, rough justice or whatever but for that stupid display from them we got what we deserved.
Ray Roche
71 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:03:21
I've said it since Martinez arrived, we need a defensive coach who knows what he's doing. Stevie sodding Wonder could see that we need to stop teams from pinging in crosses, one reason why we've conceded more headers than anyone else. How often was Galloway left exposed today?And most weeks.

And will someone shut that repetitive shower at Leicester up! It's a s bad as the vuvvzelas. Dicks.

John Daley
72 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:03:23
Ian @50,

As I said earlier, my thoughts on the last ditch sub are that it was an utterly pointless move on the managers part, rejigging players at a time when he just needed to settle his side down, not switch things up.

Gavin Johnson
73 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:03:43
John (#46),

I’m not disagreeing with you but to put the blame all at Martinez’s door is just confirmation bias for the people who were shouting for him to be sacked last season.

It’s like I said in the other point on my post. I was pulling my hair out as to why Mirallas wasn’t brought on for Kone. Yet it was Kone who set Barkley up for the 3rd goal. Barkley too, was having a quiet game up until that point.

At the end of the day we were complacent and they wanted it more. And it’s the reason we’ll finish around 7th come May. Hopefully today’s the rocket the players need so they won’t be complacent come Tuesday.

Winston Williamson
74 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:03:52
The next Everton employee to mention 'top four' should be placed on gardening leave!

I'm so tired of talk, talk, talk only to be let down on the pitch time after fucking time!

I'm furious! Bloody furious!!

John Keating
76 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:09:02
Matt Jones wrote an article during the week extolling the virtues of our – in his opinion – upward trend. I warned him that it was far too early. I wonder if he will repeat the article again after today’s game.

50-odd years of supporting this lot and I cannot remember a more cowardly, tactically inept and disgraceful second half performance. I hear some fools blaming the travelling support, well, if you are one of those fools, you need a fucking shake. Those supporters need the Club to not only reimburse their match ticket and travel costs but pay compensation for watching that shit in those conditions.

If the players showed half the commitment as the supporters, we’d be top of the league. Two-nil up at half-time and coasting against a team bottom of the league who ship in goals. They've got their third-choice keeper between the sticks in a swirling wind...

A normal team would have come out and gone for the jugular but not us, oh no. We sit back, don’t press, no attacking motives, no shooting nothing. We got exactly what our tactics deserved, in fact we got more than we deserved.

Nobody can defend those tactics, an absolute disgrace. European ambitions? We are an embarrassment... Oh yes, Martinez needs sacking on that game alone!

Mike Hughes
77 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:11:10
RM post match: "We don't focus on results, we focus on performances."

Exactly - and when are the rest of you on this site going to get on script?
Forget the result today.
I for one am still sitting here beaming about our first half display.
I'm on Cloud 9 and am really going to enjoy Saturday night reliving the first 45 minutes.

I'm sick and tired of people on here going on about winning all the time.
It's not about that - it's the performance that counts.
Our Roberto said so.
I mean we won something 20 years ago.
Let's not be greedy.
We've had lots of performances since then.

We're also lucky to have the only manager in the PL - or perhaps any other club in the world - who thinks this way.
If the result doesn't come into focus, losing doesn't matter.
That means, every day is a happy day.

(P.S. Having seen the light I'm now a fully paid up member of the Roberto Martinez Delusional Fuckwit Society - free lobotomy for new members.)

John Atkins
78 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:12:56
Gavin, I mentioned the same on the live forum. This shocking display today may help us on Tuesday and avoid any complacency.

The players and RM have been taught a lesson today and they should be ashamed of themselves, hopefully they are hurting as much as we are and will want to put it right.

A win at Boro and 3 points next Monday against Palace and we can put this sickening result behind us.

Peter Bell
79 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:14:34
Mike, the man is delusional, the PERFORMANCE AND THE RESULT were both shite!!!
Gavin Johnson
80 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:16:04
The game did encapsulate an Everton performance though. I was waxing lyrical in the first half, sitting contently, thinking how great it is that we’ve probably the strongest squad in years. We’ve gone from a team that had too many old players to having young exciting players like Deulofeu, Galloway and Stones.

Come the 2nd half. I’m sitting thinking. We’re 2-0 up. They’re getting more of the ball than I’d like, but we look solid defensively and we’ll get another goal on the break. How wrong could I be...

Geoff Williams
81 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:16:43
Well I was beginning to believe we are a good team and all my reservations about certain players were unjustified; silly me.

I was also beginning to think we had a good manager but his inability to see the obvious and his failure to be pro-active when it comes to using substitutes has made me doubt my judgement on all aspects of football.

Ian Stewart
82 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:19:46
John Daley @58. Agreed, no point whatsoever to make a sub' at that point. The blues who'd travelled to the match and got "a bit excited" when a late one went in. I don't blame them.
Colin Glassar
83 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:23:00
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we need a leader ON the pitch. Someone who will scream at his team mates to get into position, someone to bawl them out when necessary. We have really talented young players but they all appear to be mutes. They point, they grimace, they smile but do they talk to each other?

Rooney is the man we need to get back. He’s miserable as hell playing for the Mancs. Get him back, give him the armband, reinvigorate him and we will get somewhere with this team.

People talk about the crowd being quiet, I think our players need a crash course in sign language and leadership!!

Jim Hardin
84 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:25:08

Please illuminate me on what exactly Howard could have done to stop any of the goals? Wait, clone himself so he could be closing down the players at the edge of the box, as well as defending goalside of the opposing players in the box?

First goal: what did he do wrong? For the second goal, he was actually in the correct spot but the shot was up from close range with pace. The third goal, he defended the initial threat and almost still got a hand to the header.

Watch the replay and tell me where Galloway and the other defenders/mids were. Never mind, they were ball watching from a comfortable distance away from the only player who could pose a threat from the header.

Don’t let what actually happened get in the way of a good Howard bashing though, so carry on.

Geoff Williams
85 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:27:57
To be given a lifeline in the 95th minute and then throw it away is criminal.
Jay Wood
86 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:29:17
Gavin @ 60

".. to put the blame all at Martinez's door is just confirmation bias for the people who were shouting for him to be sacked last season."

What bollox! It's a legitimate criticism of his failing in TODAY'S game.

" was Kone who set Barkley up for the 3rd goal."

That is no justification for not replacing Kone, who had a mare, when we still had control of the game deep into the 2nd half at 2-0. An earlier change of personnel and a change of tactics change the dynamic of the 2nd half and we wouldn't have conceded 2 goals in the last 10 minutes, then grateful for Barkley's 'winner', only to concede another equaliser (even with the astute manager 'doing his bit' by bringing on Gibson to stiffen defensive midfield. That worked well, didn't it Gavin?)

Mike Hughes
87 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:29:42
John #66

"50-odd years of supporting this lot and I cannot remember a more cowardly, tactically inept and disgraceful second half performance."

I haven't seen today's game but it couldn't have been worse than the second half of the Jelavic semi-final surely?

Nitesh Kanchan
88 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:31:02
Colin, I am wondering if that scream came from Distin.
Clive Lewis
89 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:31:40
I blame Roberto for not doing the obvious and making a substitute. It was clear things needed changing. Osman or Gibson for Barkley. Deulofeu or Kone for Mirallas.

But the real reason we drew: midfield defending and tracking back – all hallmarks of a Martinez gung-ho defending style.

Tony Hill
90 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:34:33
There's a simple problem for us which Martinez identified himself: if we don't get top 4 then we lose our best players. I believe we have wasted 10 points this season on draws which should have been wins.

We don't have the luxury of time nor do we have the luxury of babbling bizarrely about performances over results. This season really, really matters for Everton. We had a chance two years ago and I think we do have a team and squad capable of getting top 4 again but we're pissing it away and we may well not get another go at it.

Gavin Johnson
91 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:36:09
You’re really trying to get into a debate with me, aren’t you, Jay.

So Kone sets up the 3rd goal... Yet, you know Mirallas would have come on and won the game. That seems to be what you’re saying.

Tony Heron
92 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:36:49
I watched the game and, after 60 mins, I was screaming for Martinez to take Barkley off and replace him with Mirallas. It was obvious to a blind man that we couldn't keep possession because we were overrun in midfield.

I’ve played the game as a young man and watched the game for nearly 60 years and never seen a player at any level lose the ball as much as Barkley. I know the modern game is full of stats so I wonder how many times he gave the ball away today?

As for the fans invading the pitch, well it's a passionate game and I guess when you're actually there as opposed to being an armchair critic, it's easy to get carried away; even so, it was embarrassing. Last-minute winner at Anfield? Yeah alright... but Bournemouth!

Finally, can anyone explain the Lennon substitution? Or Martinez saying "we concentrate on performances, not results"?!!

Kase Chow
93 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:37:55
We are so mentally weak, it’s a joke. We can’t ever seem to win when it matters and today we threw away a winning position twice.

Where’s our ’in-game management’? Where’s our gamesmanship?

It’s true – ALL talk of a top 4 finish should be banned until we learn how to win games we should win and get results when we’re poor. Today’s result and the circumstances are an absolute joke and the senior players and the management are all culpable

And I’m an idiot for daring to believe...

Colin Glassar
94 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:38:21
Mike, after every defeat, or draw, someone will come on here and say, "That’s the worst Everton performance I’ve seen since we lost a three goal lead to Pompeii United in 55 BC" or something to that effect.
John Atkins
95 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:39:39
Just not good enough this season and I think we’ve got a bit carried away last couple of weeks beating a poor Sunderland team and an even worse Villa side whom everyone beats.

We are nowhere near a top 4 side so the quicker everyone accepts this the better. We're a good top 6/7 side and still 2 or 3 quality players away yet including a leader in the pitch. It pains me to say it but a Gerrard or Roy Keane...

We need to concentrate on beating Boro on Tuesday and getting a kind semi-final draw – WE NEED TO LIFT A TROPHY!!!

Jay Woods
96 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:40:24
Champions League spot? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I never saw the game (bar the first 10 minutes) but throwing away a winning position twice to a depleted BOURNEMOUTH needs a phenomenally good explanation.

BTW, good post, Tony Hill.

Colin Hughes
97 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:40:42
John Atkins (#74), I will be amazed if we beat both Boro and Palace. Boro are defensively better than us, regardless of the division they are in, and have no pressure on them as promotion is their main goal... whilst Palace, with their pace and power on the break, will have our defence for supper.
Mike Powell
98 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:42:43
We have all got it wrong: winning doesn’t matter, as long as we give a good performance... then that's what counts. We don’t need to win anything as long as we give a good solid performance.

Martinez knows his stuff so let's all be happy that we gave a two-nil lead away to a very poor side... after all, we put in a great performance in the first half.

Mike Hughes
99 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:43:39
Colin (#85),

If memory serves, wasn’t Tony Hibbert to blame for that one?

John Keating
100 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:43:50

It was a total disgrace. Tactically amateurish to put in kindly. Two-up and rather than attack against a defensively poor team playing their 3rd-choice keeper, we defend.

There are some idiots on here blaming the supporters. I suppose it was also the supporters' fault that we sat deep the second half, their fault we gave 2 goals away.

Unbelievable tactics from the manager cost us big style today followed by his usual idiot comments after the game. The guy is a nutter. But hey, according to some on here, it was all the supporters' fault.

Peter Gorman
101 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:45:13
Gavin, the point I think Jay is making and what seemed obvious to most of the people who’ve posted on the game is that Kone's and Barkley’s hapless 2nd half performances played a massive role in getting Bournemouth back into the game. Would we have needed their superb contribution to a third goal (not even a winner, I should add) if we hadn’t conceded 2 goals?

To reiterate, both Kone and Barkley more than any other players in the 2nd half surrendered possession and invited pressure onto our back four. With Kone it was less expected but Barkley really seems to be making it his trademark.

It was just so blindingly obvious they needed replacing. Eventually when a change came, at 2-2 mind, it was Deulofeu for that master of hold-up play, Aaron Lennon.

The players need stick but the buck stops with the cretin in charge.

Dave Ganley
102 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:45:23
John Keating (#68), spot-on. To blame anybody else but Martinez is utter bollocks. To blame the long-suffering fans who got over-excited at the end is bollocks... and to those who say "hopefully we will learn from this" is utter bollocks too. We never learn. Only a couple of weeks ago we surrendered a 2-goal lead against Sunderland. We just switch off and the buck stops with the manager.

When that last Everton goal went in, it's not surprising the fans went a bit OTT... they thought they had got out of jail after watching an awful 2nd half display. Relief – pure and simple... and while you don't condone running onto the pitch, you can understand it but certainly can't blame them for the result.

It's the manager's job to make sure the players don't switch off. Poor preparation and planning. Basic football principals that a game lasts 90 minutes, not 45 minutes and you play to the final whistle. Poor discipline and that comes from the manager.

It's easy to go overboard when winning easy games against poor Sunderland and Villa teams but, when faced with a team that won't roll over, we capitulate. Will we ever learn? Doubtful as it keeps happening.

This is what happens when you don't keep focus for the full game. The old problems just keep coming back to haunt us. If we don't get a positive result on Tuesday then the wheels could quite easily fall off. The players clearly think they are much better than they are and if the manager can't/won't address this issue, then we will stay among the also-rans.

Peter Bell
103 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:46:02
14 games into PL and we haven’t put back-to-back victories together... but let's blame the fans for going on the pitch.
Gavin Johnson
104 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:49:57
Peter #90 I was shouting for Mirralas and Osman to come on for Kone and Barkley in the 2nd half. But the bottom line is they got us the third goal and unless you've got a time machine or crystal ball you don't know if those substitutions would have made any difference.
Jay Wood
105 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:49:57
No Gavin. I’m not looking to have a debate with you. You’re not very good at debate.

And no. I’m not saying that Mirallas would have won us the game. What I AM saying is that a more pro-active and astute manager, someone with true ambitions to break into Champions League football as a means to retain the club’s talented young footballers with ambition (something RM said this very week), would recognize earlier that certain players were not playing to the necessary standard and that we were losing control of the game that we had a firm grip on at half-time.

There was one man on the planet today in the very best position to directly influence and change Everton’s 2nd half performance for the better to ensure the 3 points.

Want to have a stab at the name of that person, Gavin...?

Ray Roche
106 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:51:10
The need for a leader was so obvious today.

Say what you like about Neville, but whenever we scored, he was straight to the touchline for instructions from Moyes and he did his best to keep the team concentrating. We have no one like that now.

Mind you, what would Martinez say if someone went over? Phenomenal?

Sam Hoare
107 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:52:47
What a difference a game makes. Last week I think some were actually talking about a title tilt and now it's all Martinez out.

The vomit inducing roller coaster of football.

We are still in both cups and top 4 is up for grabs but that won't remain the case till we defend with more maturity. Perhaps that's where we miss Jags.

Gutted to lose 2 points in such fashion but heads up and focus on Boro which will be a tough game make no mistake. Win that and this season is still looking pretty decent...

Gavin Johnson
108 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:53:08
Jay, the trick to deal with you and your opinions is not to engage. You’re the resident TW expert, and you’re always right... even when you’re not. ;)
Andy Meighan
109 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:55:49
Yeah, Colin (#75), you can just see Rooney taking a massive pay cut to come and play for us, couldn’t you? He wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference under this clown anyway – he’d probably play him on the wing.

The top and bottom of today’s result was he thought the game was won at half-time therefore he told them to take their foot off the gas. Well, it backfired spectacularly.

When Bournemouth equalised, I half expected them to go on and win it but to score in added time that late then concede again against a team that most reckon will go down was nothing short of criminal. That’s why I’ve learned not to get too carried away by recent results.

Sunderland, Aston Villa and Bournemouth are where they are for a reason. And we’ve come up short against the top sides – Arsenal Man City and Man Utd. We couldn’t even beat a shit Liverpool side. So please can we put this idiotic talk of a top 4 finish to bed because it’s just not going to happen.

So-called great squad or no so-called great squad, we concede too many silly goals; while Martinez is manager, this pattern will continue. I mean he’s stated in the past he doesn’t place much emphasis on defending. How fucking silly is that???

Colin Glassar
110 Posted 28/11/2015 at 18:58:55
Mike, Hibbo turned up late for the game alleging his chariot had a flat tyre on the way to the game. His manager, Maximus Wankus, benched him for the rest of the season, Hibbo has never been the same ever since.

Rooney subbed. Let's make a bid this winter. Please.

Jay Wood
111 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:00:18
Gavin @ 97

Ah! So only your opinions are valid and you won’t countenance or engage in contrary opinions, but rather, simply resort to ad hominem insults then run and hide... Got it!

Confirming what I said. You’re not very good at debate, are you Gavin...?

Peter Gorman
112 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:01:22
I don't know Gavin, I'm all for a debate but you've picked a strange one today alright.
Martyn Thickitt
113 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:01:41
Very disappointed with this result. We will never win anything if we can’t put a team as poor as Bournemouth to bed.

We might as well sell Mirallas if Martinez is loathe to use him; add to that, we might as well sell Stones, Lukaku and Barkley at least the club won’t have any more debt.

John Atkins
114 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:04:30
Colin (#88)

Yes, okay... but I still believe we have enough quality to win both matches.

We’d all be a lot more confident had we gone on and won 3-0 today which we should have done.

Dave Ganley
116 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:06:07
Colin, I'm with you on this one: make a bid for Rooney in January. The Mancs don't really want him anymore and he would add a winning mentality.

I would love to see him back barking orders at sloppy play. He would sort out a few players.

John Keating
117 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:08:35
Colin (#85), Very sarcastic, well done.

However, maybe with your superior knowledge you can name a game when we’ve been comfortably 2-up against a bottom team playing a third-choice keeper and fucked it up due solely to phenomenal tactical incompetence?

But then to some Martinez can do no wrong... Supporters fault.

Sam Hoare
118 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:13:24
On current form Rooney, would add to the sloppy form – not detract from it. He may be a leader but his ability looks on the wane...
Brian Hennessy
119 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:18:01
What a game (or last 10 minutes) for a neutral.

Feels like a defeat. I was screaming for Osman to come on with 20 minutes to go. To bring on Lennon I think was a big mistake at that stage of the game. Barkley had a terrible game even though he scored at the end.

Ah well, at least we will not be on last on MotD, not that I will take much enjoyment from watching that again.

Will Leaf
120 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:19:28
But what a side that Pompeii United! Their derbies with AS Herculaneum left the masses very much entertained.
Bill Gall
121 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:20:12
I am trying to maintain a positive attitude to the manager, but after today's performance, his ability to manage a team during the game is becoming questionable. There is no doubt that his philosophy about how the game should be played, his usage of young players, and his dealings with other clubs who were after our young players was great; it is his game-day decisions that are becoming a problem.

Today, there were a couple of players who struggled in the second half to maintain their standards, and there were enough people on the bench who could have improved the game, if they were used. This is where the manager failed to read what was happening in the game that allowed Bournemouth to get on top and only substituting a player when he got injured.

Allowing Bournemouth to get so much possession without changing tactics or players to put it mildly was simply amateurish. There were a couple of players – "no need to name names" – that should have been replaced in the second half but standing there hoping they would improve is definitely no way to manage a team.

I could not understand the decision to bring Lennon on after Mirallas showed last week that he was willing to try for a place and played quite well. Today's first half’s performance should have provided 3 points, but if the manager believes that his opposition is not going to make changes and he, as the saying goes "Nero fiddles whilst Rome burns " this will not be the only 3 points we will throw away. Stop giving your enemies ammunition, Mr Martinez – they don’t need it!

Gavin Johnson
122 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:23:30
No, of course not, Jay. I just don’t like your style of debate. Engaging with you just isn’t an enjoyable experience. We’ve just got different agendas for coming on here, that’s all.

Colin, I totally agree that Rooney would be the kind of signing we need. Someone who’s a leader and has won everything domestically. The kind of signing Eto’o was meant be.

Hasn’t he got another 18 months on his current deal? I can see it happening when his deal runs down, but I can’t see him taking the massive cut in wages before then... no matter how much he says he’s a Blue.

Dave Pritchard
125 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:25:45
Do not blame individuals. Blame the players and manager for being arrogant, complacent and unprofessional.
David Greenwood
126 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:29:11
Even if Rooney wanted to come back (and doesn’t he look desperate to be away from Old Trafford), there is no way his agent would allow it. He will simply not let Rooney cut his (agents) wages by around 400% a week.
Jack Cross
128 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:36:45
I'm not sure if you can put this game down to RM. I suppose when your team as had such a strong first-half performance, and they're going in leading by two goals away from home, he would be thinking it was going to be a similar second half.

Who knows if different subs would have made a difference? Barkley off and no third goal. Maybe them then winning 3-2. With us coming from behind to make it a draw. It's just all maybe’s.

Just maybe we should be thankful we got a point. Especially with the second half performance.

Colin (#78),

Right, mate a leader we need. Someone to kick their arses even if we're winning six-nil. But who do you suggest? Because I don’t see any leaders in that squad. Only shithouses that hide.

Though it might just spur them on and make them see something in themselves that they can turn into more determined winning ways. But we will see. It’s behind us now! Let's win the cup, I've a feeling it’s our season.

Jon Withey
129 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:39:07
Reading the OS, Martinez was pretty critical.

Very disappointing result, just as I was beginning to enjoy watching what was looking like a very functional team.

Losing McCarthy really isn’t going to help either.

Two interesting things today were the bench without defenders and then replacing a defensive midfielder with Tom Cleverley. The plan went wrong really, didn’t it? And has Lennon done anything for us since signing?

Still, that’s a ludicrous amount of goals for Everton to score in the last 3 games.

Colin Glassar
130 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:41:07
Despite being treasurer, and general secretary, of the happy clapping Bobby Martinez fan club, I must agree with a lot of what Bill Gall wrote. Roberto needs to instill a killer instinct in the players and in himself.

We should’ve have gone for the kill in the second half, the same as I was hoping for against Villa. We should be going out to batter these teams not go in the lead and then step back and admire our work. The game is played over 90 minutes not 45. Once he, and the players, realise this, we will be fine.

Gavin and Dave, bring Rooney back and we will see (for a few seasons) that kid playing his heart out for his club. This Rooney is a shadow of himself and it’s obvious he isn’t happy. He’s a multi-millionaire and he can still have all his money-making sponsorships and whatnot. I think he’d come running if we showed some intent.

Jay Wood
131 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:41:20
Gavin @ 108

"Engaging with you just isn't an enjoyable experience."

So damn annoying having someone rationally contest the logic of your 'arguments' and not having any legitimate counters, isn't it Gavin...?

You are in a minority of one in this thread Gavin, deflecting blame from RM today as you do. Curious also that you just pick me out when any number of posters in this thread challenge your position along exactly the same lines as I have...

I'm flattered.

Peter Jansson
132 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:45:05
Seriously. Everton has a super team right now but a very mediocre manager.

He does not make the best out of this team because he play several players that are not good enough and he let some play out of position.

1. Robles is better than Howard. He should bench Howard who is regularly not making the best of decisions. When Robles got to play last year you could directly see that the defence got better because they had better trust in Robles. Everton started winning again.

2. Barry. Sorry, he is too slow and not good enough any more. Still he plays every game!!! Every game!!? What is that?

3, Kone is playing out of position, and he cannot handle it. Today he received the ball about 10-15 times in the second half, and only once he managed not to get rid of the ball. I mean this guy got rid of the ball about every time he got it. Making several mistakes. He put himself in difficult situations instead of doing the easy thing.

4. Mirallas is a class player. Much better than Kone on the left side. Why is not Martinez playing Mirallas???? This demonstrates Martinez's inability to distinguish good and mediocre players. It is stupidity to have Mirallas on the bench as he without a doubt is one of the best Everton players. If is head is not right then deal with it. Technical and offensive capabilities Mirallas is a top player. Give him the chance and some good management.

5. Osman. Yes, he might be behind his peak. But with the current midfield Everton possess, he should definitely get the chance more often.

6. Martinez. Well you should be able to get the best Everton team on the pitch at least once. Right now, I see waste of great potential.

David Greenwood
133 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:45:46
He might, Colin, but his agent wouldn’t have it. He has probably around 20% of £250 to 300k a week until 2019, plus his cut of the sponsorship on top of that. Even with the sponsorship still in place, he will not let his wages drop to 20% of £75k a week.

I would love to see us go for it though, but I can’t see it happening.

Phil Walling
134 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:48:36
I know my brand of pessimism is not in good odour but seriously, is there ANYBODY on here who still believes we can win ANYTHING under this manager?
Peter Cummings
135 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:51:18
Sorry, guys, I told you so yesterday. If Bournemouth play with the spirit they showed versus the Geordies last week, they could cause us problems... and they did, courtesy of a second half when we let them off the hook big time.

Martinez was the instigator of the second-half shambolics by taking off Deulofeu and leaving Kone and Barkley, then compounded it with a half-fit sub in Cleverley and the ineffective Lennon while, yet again, kicking Mirallas in the goolies.

Last – but far from least – was the crass stupidity of the pitch invasion which cost us at least 90 secs more on the watch.

Well done, Cherries, you earned your point.

Colin Glassar
136 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:52:34
You never know, David, he could tell his money grabbing runt of an agent, "You know what, lar? You’ve been sponging off me for years so you can go and do one. I’m going home to me team and you and that Dutch fucker can both go and piss off."

Let’s hope so.

Andy Crooks
137 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:56:40
We have a good squad and some really talented young players. Sadly it will be wasted because we have, in my view, an utterly second-rate coach who I believe is as inept as we have ever had. How he survived last season's performance at Southampton is beyond me as it was the worst example of coaching I have ever witnessed at any level.

What a sad wasted opportunity.

Kim Vivian
138 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:58:03
John Daley (#48).

That’s a bit harsh on Ready Brek, mate.

David Greenwood
139 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:58:22
Fingers crossed for that, Colin. You can just see him being re-energised.

It won’t cost him his England place; that’s gone. Vardy and Kane are currently miles ahead of him. Even Woy couldn’t justify picking him at the moment.

Tony Abrahams
140 Posted 28/11/2015 at 19:58:34
How can anyone blame our fans? If the players and manager had a tenth of the fight, passion and belief of the travelling blue army, we would win the fucking league every year!
Brent Stephens
141 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:00:58
Peter #116 "the pitch invasion which cost us at least 90 secs more on the watch."

I didn't time it. Did that really happen? i.e. if there were x minutes left when we scored, did the ref really play those x minutes plus another 90 or more?

Colin Glassar
142 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:02:12
Or this season's performance against the same Southampton, Andy, when we won 3-0? I think some people on here wanted the Pope to beatify him after that game. How times change (from week to week in Everton’s case).
Amit Vithlani
143 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:04:30
Poor defensive organisation remains the root cause of our porous record this season. Something like 7 matches already where we have let in 2 or more goals? Out of which 6 games came in the league, which have unsurprisingly yielded the one win against Sunderland.

Granted our backline has chopped and changed this season, but we are extremely insecure at the back.

I genuinely hope the late collapse does not affect us in the way the 2-2 vs Arsenal did last season.

Credit Bournemouth. Played with guts.

Gavin Johnson
145 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:12:18
Tony (#121). I agree with you on that. Our away support is tremendous. It was heat of the moment on what was a ’Roy of the Rovers’ like finish. It’s unfortunate as the ref added another couple of minutes, which took the game in another direction.

While I’m not happy with the consequences of the pitch invasion, I certainly don’t blame the fans in the front seats and can empathise with their passion.

Chris Butler
146 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:16:39
We should've won, but we didn’t deserve to win. The problem is, as a club, since Martinez came in, we have become far too arrogant for my liking. Moyes certainly wasn’t perfect towards the end, but at least he didn’t let players become too arrogant.

What on earth were our players doing? We had just scored a goal in the last minute of injury time, yet their winger and strikers had all the time in the world. Even Sunday league teams don’t do things that stupid.

While we have had some decent results this season, beating Southampton, West Brom away, good wins against Chelsea, Aston Villa and Sunderland at home. But other than that we have been pretty average. We were poor against Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Watford, Reading, Arsenal and Bournemouth today. We are becoming better at beating average teams at home, but we are not better at playing against better teams at home and playing away.

I feel very sorry for our fans who travelled all that way, to be let down in such an awful manner. I would bring Besic back into the side, at least he has a go at players for not putting a shift in.

Dave Pritchard
147 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:17:15
The Rooney idea is interesting. He is clearly out of sorts at the moment. Does he also look a bit overweight? It would be a risk to sign him because of his poor form. Would it revitalise him? That is the big question, along of course with would he take a massive drop in pay and do we have the money to bid for him?
Peter Jansson
148 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:22:44
Moyes was not a good manager. It is a miracle how he could be so popular with 10 years of coaching and winning nothing. Now reality has come to bite Moyes in the ass. It should have come much earlier when he was an Everton coach.

Martinez is not much better. But he has different issues than Moyes.

When can we get a decent coach??

Andrew Presly
149 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:24:44
Well said Tony #121

Today easily makes the top 3 EFC "but we’ve just scored...." moments from hell

In third place – today’s shit. My stream dropped after the pitch invasion. It soon became apparent via my phone that something had gone badly badly wrong. I haven’t seen the goal & I will sincerely try to avoid it forever. Bet Howard is at fault though.

Second – Aston Villa, 2-3 at Goodison in about ’08. Lescott scores an overhead kick against his boyhood club. Good moment as Villa were alright then. We got carried away from the re-start & Ashley Young waltzed through about 5 of the bastards to win the game in the 95th. Hailed as a "genius" by pitch invading gaffer O’Neill at the whistle. Deeply grim.

And first, hopefully never to be beaten – Anfield circa 92-93. Dave Watson gave us the lead with a flick-on header from a corner / free-kick within 10 minutes. As the replays were in glorious full flow, the fans at the ground roared, something had happened... the Sky cameras went straight from the replays of our goal to Ian Rush celebrating the immediate equaliser. It got worse from that point on.

Everton, that!

Colin Glassar
150 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:28:01
To continue with the Rooney idea Dave, maybe he goes home to Coleen at night and over a bag of fish and chips, and a bottle of WKD, he tells her he’s bored to death with this antithesis of total football played at OT and he’d rather return to Everton and play for a pittance but enjoy his football again. You never know.

Chris, remember when a few seasons ago when we equalised against Villa at home (in injury time) and while our lot were still celebrating the goal Agbonlahor, or Young, broke through and scored the winner? This was under the defensive genius aka OFM. You’re right, he didn’t let his players become arrogant but they still couldn’t defend as well as some people make out.

David Greenwood
151 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:32:30
I think they are no strangers to deep fried Mars bars and/or snickers to finish that off Colin.
Gavin Johnson
152 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:33:44
Yes, Colin. The outcome of today's game was very much like one OFM's. Except in his case we'd have been leading 1-0 and they'd have scored in the dying seconds. Norwich City in Moyes's last season is one game that springs to mind that characterised these capitulations.
Christy Ring
153 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:35:20
Still livid, a huge 2pts thrown away. Bringing on Gibson in the 97th minute, was the reason they got extra time. Blame yourself, Bob, not the ref, and our tactics in the 2nd half were a disgrace.
Tony Abrahams
154 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:37:47
Rooney only looks happy when he’s playing for England, and I’m convinced he still wants to play for Everton. Take the documentary on TV the other week, it was definitely centred more on Everton, and his hometown in general, than it was Manchester United.

If it’s going to happen, it’s got to be very soon, otherwise it would be pointless. I’m pretty sure that’s why he was invited back to play in Ferguson’s testimonial this summer, and I’m sure he knows he would have to be a success to get the doubters mostly back onside.

Everton are getting better and that is why the pathetic tactics when leading are so frustrating. But we have needed a leader for a long time now, someone to give the players and manager, a real winning mentality.

Dave Abrahams
155 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:38:48
I didn’t see the game, just watched teh Live Forum so I can’t have a go at any of the players, but for those saying the players and Martinez will learn from this game, the players and especially Martinez will not learn or even try to learn from the very basic cock-ups that were made today.

I gave the manager the benefit of the doubt after last season to see if he could change his tactics and ideas; he doesn’t even try to change... so I will not expect Everton to have a good season, but will still continue to watch my team. So it’s goodnight Vienna from me, as far as Martinez goes... he just hasn’t got it.

On the Live Forum, quite a few were calling the Everton fans who ran onto the pitch 'idiots'; well, a lot of us would have done the same when we were younger, but of course they were idiots: for getting up at 6:30 am this morning to get ready and go and catch their coaches to watch their team and manager play for about 30 minutes of this game.

I wish with all my heart that the players and manager had 50% of these supporters' enthusiasm. I wish I was one of them again, going to away matches.

David Connor
156 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:41:29
I just heard the aftermatch press interview with Martinez and could not believe what utter shite he came out with. To say the performance of the team is more important than the result is an absolutely ridiculous comment to come out with. And this man is in charge of our team...

Play well for six games and lose five of them and that's okay then... Fuckin' bullshit! He is so far up his own arse, it's unreal.

Having said that, he hasn't done a bad job, but it's time to win a trophy now, pure and simple. If we end up potless again this season, it's got to be time for him to collect his P45.

I hope he realises what a stupid comment he has made, kicks some arse, and gets us through to the semis come Tuesday night. We need to man up in matches like we have had today when the pressures on or we will be also-rans for a Europa League place.

Champions League? Forget it...

Charles Brewer
157 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:50:30
I had a ticket booked for Bridge of Spies (excellent) so I missed the last 30 seconds or so, and I am now the distance of an enjoyable film away from the match.

The first half was exemplary, Deulofeu was not on best form, but is so terrifying that his presence alone is enough to bother most teams. Kone is a revelation this year, Lukaku who last year was about as effective a holdup player as a concrete bollard was killing the ball, moving effectively and appearsed to have a big grin for most of the time. The defence was solid and managing to stop Bournemouth getting any crosses in.

Last week on the live forum we had a silly but amusing chat about "2-0" which I said was a score I hated because it led to complacency. 1-0 invariably concentrates the mind and 3-0 is usually out of sight.

The second half, with all my worst fears and forecasts came true. The team just didn't even try after half time, passes which were going straight in the first half were all over the place and instead of defending in midfield, we tried to park the bus. And this on a day where the wind was a major factor and no one knew where high or long balls were going.

Kone, of whom I used to be highly critical, has had a splendid season so far and the Lukaku-Kone axis is much better then either alone, but, Kone runs out of steam. Nothing to blame him for, but he tends to be pretty active for about 70 mins and then starts missing passes, failing to move to collect the ball and so on. It would be nice if he didn't but that's how it is. So the obvious thing is to plan a substitution after about 65-70 minutes and put some creating and cunning legs on in his place. From week to week this could be Mirallas, Osman or even Naismith but a rejuvenated and re-energised attack will knock most teams sideways.

Also, when your team has thrown in the towel on dominating the game, you put on someone who will confuse the opposition and take over the midfield. In other words, you don't bother with Gibson, Lennon or Cleverley all of whom seem only to function in a game which is already being controlled by their team.

Today we got all three and I don't actually remember any of them touching the ball. Even the last gasp Barkley goal was made by a knackered Kone.

Today's defeat (yes, that's what is was - in every material sense) was a disgrace.

Stewart Lowe
158 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:52:48
Is it me or is Ross Barkley very overrated? I just don’t get it or him. I have come to the conclusion that he is intellectually rather stupid and I don’t see him getting any better than he is now??

He runs at defences and thumps the ball at no specific part of the goal and when it goes in everyone cheers, yet 70% of his shots are not even on target. He actually skies the majority of them and he just doesn’t seem to learn from that whereas other players would and other strikers pick their spot.

When he is in possession, he runs around the pitch with his mouth open and his tongue gormlessly half hanging out; his expression and body language to me look like he hasn’t got a clue which teammate he should be passing it to – this was the same Ross Barkley as 2 years ago.

Another flaw in Barkley is his inability to run back and defend. Even Kone and Lukaku get back and attempt to clear opposition crosses but Barkley can be found on the halfway line walking back. He shouldn’t even be in the team if he is not prepared to defend when needed.

Finally, Barkley goes down cheaply / softly / dives at least 2-3 times per game and they are always really obvious too. I don’t care if his cheating gets my team a goal, I am embarrassed that he did that for my team.

So I have a stupid mouth opened, gormless looking, run at goal and thump a chancer anywhere at either goal or within 5 meters either side of it, running around a pitch aimlessly, unsure who to pass to, not willing / able to defend Ross Barkley. You heard it here first: he will not get much better than he is now and we will be asking why he never progressed 2-3 years from now.

Tony Hill
159 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:54:11
I’m afraid Rooney’s legs have gone. He has been a truly wonderful player but I think you can see that he’s lost it, I’m sad to say.

I wondered if he might perform a Pirlo role because he has the range of passing and guile, but he looks to me as though he’s just gone beyond the point of no return in the Premier League. Hope I’m wrong and would love him to come back to us if he could have a role.

Declan Brown
160 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:54:47
I’m not going to say "Martinez Out" after that; it’s knee jerk to a bad 45 minutes.

Coming home from work, we were 2-0 up and I thought "Great, 3 more points and we’ve learned to bury those struggling teams." Then, out of nowhere (at home) it was 2-2. Shocked.

Then 3-2, pure relief and rescuing back 3 points that were seemingly in the bag, like we’d stolen them back again... then, bang: 3-3 in the 97th minute. Who’d be an Evertonian, eh? It feels like a defeat and a big wasted opportunity, but could be the reality check we need with Boro coming up.

All this reminds me of a story about Martin O’Neill when he was managing Celtic during an Old Firm match: Celtic were dominating but it was still 0-0 at half-time... it was kicking off in the changing room, Celtic players all having a go at each other. After several minutes, it went quiet and everyone looked at O’Neill. He calmly and quietly looked around and said "Can somebody just score a goal? I don’t care who it is or how, but can we just score a goal first".

This is my Martin O’Neill moment... Can somebody just go and get us a decent defensive coach? I don’t care who he is, don’t care where he’s comes from, just get one so we can get our defending sorted out, because this is becoming tiresome and ridiculous.

I’m not condoning what the fans did but, judging by that 2nd half, if I got out of jail, I’d be feeling pretty happy myself. Those guys undertook a long journey, were treated to that 2nd half, so getting what looked like the winner in the 95th minute would have had me delirious too given the circumstances.

Don’t blame the fans, they weren’t the ones playing, managing or coaching that shambles in the 2nd half. Roberto, the ice is getting thinner again... not caring about the result but focussing on the performance, that’s a cracker! Not a good line, Roberto, that’s not what we want to hear...

Tony Abrahams
161 Posted 28/11/2015 at 20:57:20
Try and look at it another way. My son said that the celebration when Barkley scored was utter pandemonium. He said from Row L, the surge took him to Row A, and he landed on his head. The utter joy of scoring a last minute winner, for a set of fans, for whom the club means absolutely everything. He said it was brilliant, and the reason for travelling such distances.

"Until they made a fucking cunt of us a minute later" is what he said.

Gary Reeves
162 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:03:54
I’m with you, Stewart (#137):

Martinez’s indulgence in Ross Barkley will be his undoing. Get your hard-hat on though – get ready for "Incoming!" – there’s a lot on here who can’t see it!

Andy Crooks
163 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:04:24
Colin, fair point # 123. I just doubt him. He might be great and he might be shit but I honest to God just don't know. However, I hope ToffeeWebbers don't check over old posts because there's a post out there where I ( must have been hammered) suggested Steve McCLaren as our new coach. As you say, Colin, it's a,week to week thing.
Martin Mason
165 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:14:53
To say that this was a disappointment in terms of both result and performance would be a real understatement. Bournemouth got the tactics spot on in the end and we had no tactics.

When we get pressed hard, like in the second half, we lose general cohesion and they found a weak axis through Kone, Barry and Galloway. Very sad because it means that, despite having a much improved squad, it isn’t top 5 or 6 yet and you could see that the players knew this, they were well beaten in the end.

Andrew Keatley
166 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:20:30
Agree with Tony Hill (#138). Rooney is certainly in decline, if not gone at the game. At the top level anyway. His game was always based on energy, directness and instinct. Without the pace to trouble defenders, he has gone from being a world-beater to somebody that I believe (on merit) might struggle to start for our first team.
Paul Nicholls
167 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:21:59
Tony (#140). Very sad, but years of attrition eventually wear you down. Your lad will just have to swallow it.

I hit my half-century this year, so I've seen most everything home and away; sadly today is yet another classic case of ’not quite good enough’.

We can navel gaze for as long as we want, but these days our natural territory is around or just below the Europa League qualifying places. The reasons why are well understood. Doesn’t stop us all aspiring to NSNO, and I will fight the good fight till my dying breath, but the glory days are gone.

I am blessed to have been there in the mid eighties; what I would give to let my son and the younger generation see what we saw.

Stewart Lowe
168 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:23:16
Let's put this in perspective: Bournemouth have about 6 main first team players out injured and to a team like Bournemouth who – unlike most Premier League teams – don’t have a bench they can call on to back up those injured. They have also refused to spend money whilst being in the Premier League.

Once we got our second goal, we walked around the pitch effortlessly as if it was won, and all we had to do was see it out. Why was Martinez not screaming from the bench to press for a 3rd?

Martinez is too NICE to gee players up for a fight and that makes a lot of difference to results. Eddie Howe is a born Evertonian, so watch that one closely.

Kevin Tully
169 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:24:44
Stewart Lowe # 137: Your comments concerning Barkley are an absolute disgrace.
Peter Mills
170 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:43:45
If anyone wants a microcosm of what was wrong with our attitude, watch the play of our No.15, Tom Cleverley, for Bournemouth’s 3rd goal. Feeble.
Stewart Lowe
171 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:45:39
Kevin Tully (#147):

I say what I see, Kevin, and I watch every game. As an Evertonian for 34 years I would love Ross to be the next Rooney but he isn’t... and he won't be.

He is 22 years old next month and he is no better than 2-3 years ago. He still doesn’t defend. His passing is still no better than it was back then and is too happy to pass it off to a player 2 meters away because he looks like he doesn’t know who else to pass it to. If you don’t believe this then watch games back.

He still wants to lump a thunderous shot and it more often than not ends up in Gwladys Street's Row Z. If you watch back good and great goalscorers, you can see that they pick a spot and go for it but Ross thumps it at goal but nowhere specific at goal. If it goes in, everyone applauds and thinks it's amazing but they don’t with the majority of his shots because because they invariably end up 4, 5, 6 meters above goal.

I'm not a fan of Neil Warnock at all but he very quickly sent Ross back to Everton just a couple of weeks into a 3-month loan as he was just unpredictable / unmanageable?

Paul Andrews
172 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:47:37

How many goals has Ross scored this season?

David Greenwood
173 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:49:41
Stewart. More often than not, Row Z in the Gwladys Street stand. Really?
Tony Hill
174 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:51:42
By way of confirming the folly of football fans, I have already cheered up after my earlier doom-laden comments and after telling my son, as I do every time we have a bad result, that I have finished with Everton. I have been doing the same thing for decades.

I've had a couple of glasses of wine and I've seen that we will only be 8 off the top and 5-7 off 4th and we have a quarter-final to win.

And so it will always be and I am very thankful for it.

Kevin Tully
175 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:52:53
Stewart - I'm not talking about his ability. Please read your post again.
Stewart Lowe
177 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:55:33
Bill Gall
178 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:56:34
What’s with the 'bring in Rooney' suggestion? We have got enough deadwood with no sign of them leaving. And when do Everton bring in players in the January window when we need them?

We have a strong squad that are more than capable of getting us into the top 6 or even higher, and it is up to the manager to improve on his reading of the game on match days.

I am not a professional manager but even I could see that Barkley was struggling for most of the game and Kone was gasping for breath with 30 min to go after a short run, but there was no sign of a substitute until McCarthy got injured.

Gavin Johnson
179 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:57:32
Andy (#143),

Don’t feel too bad about the McClaren post, mate. I was also one of the ones who mentioned him as a progressive British coach when there were threads about possible Martinez replacements.

Jay Wood
180 Posted 28/11/2015 at 21:59:22
Stewart @ 152

"Neil Warnock ... very quickly sent Ross back to Everton just a couple of weeks into a 3-month loan as he was just unpredictable / unmanageable."

Not true. Everton took the decision to recall Ross from Leeds because Warnock reneged on an agreement that Ross would get game time. To this day, I have Leeds mates who rage at Warnock on this very point because they had seen what Ross brought to the team in the few chances he got at Elland Road.

For a gormless, tongue lolling, intellectually challenged chancer, 3 goals and an assist in the last 2 games is a fairly decent return. Imagine what those stats could be if he was any good, eh...?

Don Alexander
181 Posted 28/11/2015 at 22:01:41
Today exemplifies what that tosser Martinez is all about. Nice, very very nice, especially to the opposition, jibberish in what he says and the way he has us play, complacent, and delusional. He has this week alluded to "Europe" being key to some measure of success and player retention.

This morning, Barkley was in the Telegraph spouting on about it too, under the "legend" he believes Drunken Duncan to be, "Cos he won loads!"

Ross lad, he won one Scottish championship with Rangers. He was on the bench when we won the FA Cup in 1995. That’s all this "legand" won.

He was a skiver, constantly suspended and "injured", who just very occasionally turned in a performance to keep the fans interested. Sound familiar lad? Now he’s coaching you lot, and can’t I just tell!

Gerry O'Riordan
182 Posted 28/11/2015 at 22:08:30
OK, I’ve read the comments about how poor we were, but can I make a few points.

We were not great but the wind didn’t help our game. Secondly, I think some of ye are underestimating how good a team Bournemouth are. They have been so unlucky with injuries this season, but they have great team spirit.

They have a great young manager, watch where he goes in the future. I always thought this would be a draw, but just not like this!

Ernie Baywood
183 Posted 28/11/2015 at 22:17:14
First half was pretty poor with the wind causing havoc but it was us who showed the greater threat – usually through Deulofeu. Looked a really comfortable away win.

Second half, I think we got complacent. They came at us and left gaps which we then overplayed searching for the perfect goal instead of just killing the game off.

On 55 minutes, I told my son Deulofeu would be off soon. He’d stopped tracking his man and didn’t have the legs left.

I don’t blame Bobby for the complacency or players tiring. It’s not like his team talk was fuck about. I do blame him for not fixing it. Mirallas for Deulofeu would have woken us up. Lennon could have helped. Gibson for Ross would have tightened up the middle (and Ross had an off day). Cleverley for Kone. Anything was needed but Roberto did his Southampton away impression and sat on his hands until forced by injury.

That first goal by them was all Deulofeu. He just didn’t bother. Kone was caught on his heels but Deulofeu was in the best position to cover. Swap him for anyone and that goal doesn’t happen.

I almost don’t care about the last two goals from the perspective of figuring out what went wrong. The game was a basket case by that time.

Steve Hogan
184 Posted 28/11/2015 at 22:20:02
Stewart (155),

Your comments on Ross border on a pathological dislike of the guy. Where is the proof that that ’winner’ Warnock' has ever said Ross was ’unmanageable’?

Simply show me the quote.

Andrew Rimmer
185 Posted 28/11/2015 at 22:20:19
I’ve been quiet on here for a long time as I was "too negative"... You show me the positives from today. Okay, we scored 3 goals but if we hadn’t we’d have lost. If we have (had) European aspirations then they’re well gone. Utter shambles.

For a team and manager who bang on about possession, then explain Bournemouth having 78% in the 2nd half. Utter garbage.

I knew we would blow it and was happy when we jammily won it with 15 seconds left. The unprofessionalism that ensued was scandalous by the players and the fans.

Oliver Molloy
188 Posted 28/11/2015 at 22:29:30
Fantastic fightback from Bournemouth but, as we all know, we should have won this but once again we didn’t. I said last week after two big scorelines against very poor opposition that I would be convinced we could push for a top four place when we start beating sides above us and around us. Is Bournemouth one of those sides!

I felt terrible for our fans at the match; had I been there, I would have been sick to the teeth. The reason we didn’t get three points after scoring a lucky third goal in my opinion was us just switching off – the team thought they'd won it – simple.

Young Galloway has done well but the sooner we get Baines back in the side the better we will be both in attack and defence. Middlesbrough is going be a big test for us at their place.

Derek Thomas
189 Posted 28/11/2015 at 22:38:20
Serves you fucking right, you gang of strolling layabouts.

Keep BOTH eyes on the game you’re playing, not one eye on the midweek cup game.

When you have NO INTENSITY AT ALL, it’s very hard to engage it when you need to... and we needed to... you ALWAYS need to. It's the foot on the throat that wins games; we don’t take our foot off their throats – we never have it on to start with.

If any one of the 3 shots that went right to Howard had gone in, especially Richie’s. If we had been playing a ’favoured sky darling’, make no mistake about it, no friend of ours Mr Friend would’ve pointed to the spot.

Kone does his best in front of Galloway, who today started to look the young centre-half playing out of position he is. He got ripped apart by... who?... never heard of him.

Today it could’ve been 5... for them. Like versus Sunderland where they could’ve scored 4... the fact that we got 6, well we dodged a bullet there.


Oh and did the antics of the joyous fans contribute to the extra extra extra time added on when they equalized? Yes, it did.

John Daley
191 Posted 28/11/2015 at 22:49:27
Barkley had a poor game today, no getting around that. However, he stuck at it and was there battling at the end to score (what looked like) the winner.

It’s one thing to criticise his performances but the constant little pot shots at his perceived character and intelligence are needless and seemingly based on little evidence other than a scally haircut and where he hails from.

So he’s gormless and his tongue flops over his lips like Leatherface waiting for his brother to come back and see what he’s done to the front door, does it? What exactly does that tell you? Fuck all. Peter Beardsley used to look like he’d just pulled a sack cloth from his head and spent the last half hour wailing "I’m not an animal... sluuuuurp.... I’m a human being... sluuuuurp" and, to rub salt into those cursed at birth wounds, he was also a bloody Geordie, yet he was still one of the most intelligent footballers of his generation.

To say he hasn’t improved any aspect of his game in the last three years is equally daft, especially from someone who states they sit through every game. His strike rate has clearly improved for starters. The stats are there for all to see, no matter how clown shoes you might like to paint his shooting.

As for putting great stock in Neil Warnock not being able to get the best out of a player? That’s like saying the violin’s clearly a crap instrument because Jimmy Nail chose to play the harmonica on Crocodile Shoes.

Brent Stephens
192 Posted 28/11/2015 at 22:55:56
Derek (#169) – I haven’t timed the events (start of added time, time lost during added time through stoppages with goal and sub etc, end of added time) – so what were all the timings? What amount of time did our fans add to added time played?
Roger Helm
194 Posted 28/11/2015 at 23:06:49
I've been watching Everton since the 70s and apart from the blip in the 80s when we were good, we have always flattered to deceive. It seems to be in our DNA not to have a winning mentality.

We have a good squad and talented youngsters but where is the nous to see out games? The leadership on the pitch? This is the reason we will play nice football and win games, but still drop points and we will never actually win any trophies.

Clive Lewis
197 Posted 28/11/2015 at 23:19:16
Watching this game on MotD, it certainly appears that something was probably mentioned at half-time concerning a so-called big game on Tuesday. After Ross Barkley's tweet, did Roberto say something a half time?

I just do not buy into the lack of trying second half... Is the big game on Tuesday more important than Champions League football? Sadly, I think it might be for Roberto. Echo’s what happened with Wigan.

Christy Ring
198 Posted 28/11/2015 at 23:43:46
Watching again, how Cleverley and Barry didn’t clear or foul the man in midfield, before the cross came in was SHOCKING.

As for Martinez, I don’t understand his substitutions, he had no choice when McCarthy got injured, but why didn’t he change it earlier?

Derek Thomas
199 Posted 28/11/2015 at 23:58:32
Neither have I Brent, but I will...

Right, it went like this


94:44 Barkley scores

96:40 Restart, Gibson subbed on between goal and re start and the Reffs ALWAYS add on for a sub in added time.

97:12 They score.

98:15 Re-start again.

98:30 Full time

Approx 2 mins crowd /player celebrations and a sub.

Poor, but maybe understandable, decision making by the crowd

Poor decision making by Roberto - He should know better.

The worst 2 points lost since I don't know when.

looks like playing the 18th team away was to big an ask for us.

Les Netherwood
200 Posted 28/11/2015 at 00:00:30
Martinez is an idiot. Although he insists there is competition for places, Howard, Barry, Kone are always in the team.

And as for not bothering about winning but more for performance... when did you ever hear such rubbish? He needs to be hooked out as soon as possible.

We were so poor in the second half and Mirallas sitting on the bench unused again... Barkley was crap today too... what a load of rubbish.

Again, it is a joke to talk about top four... it seems to me we will lucky to finish in the top half of the table.

Christy Ring
201 Posted 28/11/2015 at 00:05:36
What today’s game told me, after all the talk for weeks about Barry, and that McCarthy is the weak link and should be dropped?? When he went off, it tells us, he is irreplaceable.
Les Martin
202 Posted 29/11/2015 at 00:10:11
Okay, we made a few mistakes but still got a point and almost three! The learning benefits of this should be enormous and beneficial as we progress.

A lot of teams will come unstuck here and I wish plucky Bournemouth all the best, they deserved their three points.

Liam Reilly
203 Posted 29/11/2015 at 00:16:41
RM to blame for that second half, no question. I am a supporter but he fucked up royally today, thinking the second half was a procession.

I can just hear the "hit them on the break" shite from him at half-time; instead it should’ve been get the fucking third. Their third was a joke.

Can anyone tell me what Mirallas has to do to get in that fucking side?

Brian Dagnall
204 Posted 28/11/2015 at 00:21:06
Sure we can make the usual comments about "not putting games to bed", but IMHO a draw is the minimum Bournemouth deserved. The reason they deserved it is that they bossed the midfield in the second half, and our guys kept losing the ball, McCarthy, Barkley and Kone in particular. Frankly, though I'm not a Barry fan, he was the pick of our poor midfield.

Someone above reckons Galloway had a poor game and I agree ... I thought he was a weak link the whole game. It is tough to be a centre-half if your midfield keep giving the ball away, and you have fullbacks being given the runaround. Their first goal was a screamer but nobody closed the guy down, and after that we looked pretty vulnerable. The way to "put games to bed" is to keep possession but Bournemouth had 57% overall possession and considerably greater than this in the second half.

I don't know how to make these gifted players STOP losing the ball so easily .... do we need a coach to explain to players to keep their heads up?

Don Alexander
205 Posted 29/11/2015 at 00:49:24
Brian, the coach of our "gifted players" is Duncan Ferguson. Somehow he has been granted legend status by some of us. Why is a total mystery to me, excepting about half a dozen games in the years, repeat, years, he turned out for us. That’s not just my opinion, it’s the opinion of just about everyone who had anything to do with him in his "career", including Joe Royle.

Martinez has proved himself poor as a coach throughout his entire career (his FA Cup win was akin to Foinavon winning the Grand National in 1967) and he chose Ferguson, a man who screwed every club who signed him, and especially us, as a coach. Is it any wonder we have a team bereft of ruthlessness or even effort?

Nathan Cross
206 Posted 29/11/2015 at 00:54:54
Due to a power outage here I missed most of the second half. I was furious at the time... now I feel a little bit lucky to have missed it...
Jay Harris
207 Posted 29/11/2015 at 00:57:36
One win in the last six away games tells you all you need to know about where we will finish – and it is not the top 4 despite some of the big boys having a poor season.

I listened to Schmeichel talking on Sky and reckon he would make a great defensive coach; if we could get young Kasper in too, that would be an improvement.

Andrew Rimmer
208 Posted 29/11/2015 at 01:13:16
Jay. I was always stunned at why we didn't buy Butland.
Jim Hardin
209 Posted 29/11/2015 at 01:17:32
Can anyone on here blame Mirallas if he leaves in January? In a game screaming for his attacking play, he was left on the bench. Only thing worse could have been subbing him in injury time like Gibbo.

BTW, Distin looked as fit or fitter than most of our players. Why did we get rid of him?

David Edwards
210 Posted 29/11/2015 at 01:27:37
Haven’t posted for a while but felt the need to express my frustration at today’s result. My faith in RM was actually dented when we meekly went out of the League Cup early in his first season. However I lost it completely over that dreadful December/January run the next season – and wished him gone by the end of that season – even though we did enough to avoid the relegation scrap later on!

This season has seen inconsistency and missed opportunities (and points) in many games, and large wins against poor teams like the Black Cats and Aston Villa did little for me. In a season when a decent run, like Leicester City’s, would have seen us in the top 4 by now – we have failed and become part of the pack when we are better than that. The thing is, I think we are a decent enough squad now, provided the boss uses it effectively through tactics and substitutions. The second half performance today reinforces my doubts.

Tony Hill’s early comment about what a non-top 4 finish will mean for our ’star’ players is key to our future. This is, or was, the season when we should have, could have, repeated Moyes’s achievement of a few years ago, and then built up a real challenge for the very top next season. Sadly a mid-table finish will mean no more progress for a while. Martinez is not our future, and without a change in the board or owner, we will drift as we have the last two decades – a truly great club, with great fans who deserve so much better! COYB

Harold Matthews
211 Posted 29/11/2015 at 01:29:24
I can't even talk about this strange match. The 2nd half was almost beyond comprehension and must never be allowed to happen again. Too many watched like wooden soldiers as the game passed them by.
Philip Yensen
212 Posted 29/11/2015 at 01:37:49
Everton today began with some great play and good goals. Then we started to piss around with our going nowhere multi-passing game, therefore inviting the opposition to close us down and take control.

I don’t know what the instructions were from our inspirational (Not!) coach at half time but it worked... for Bournemouth. We were woeful. Howard looked bewildered, Barkley looked clueless, Kone looked unfit, Coleman looked scared to overlap and as a team, we lost the plot.

Why do we think we can play the passing game when obviously we don’t advance up the field, then eventually punt it 40 yards?

Why wasn’t a tired Kone replaced by Naismith? Why wasn’t a clueless stationary (barring his goal) Barkley replaced by Cleverley? Finally, after scoring what should have been an undeserved winning goal, why does the dickhead manager make a pointless substitution? Everyone knows that the refs add 30 seconds to the added time for this action...

From playing like potential Champions League contenders (not my words), to possible relegation candidates in one game sums up this man’s inability as a tactician. We are a joke.
Anthony Lamb
213 Posted 29/11/2015 at 01:57:36
Sometimes I do despair of the term "professional" being applied to footballers. In so many ways, they bring the term into disrepute. Today, after what appears to be a pretty shambolic performance, we get these ludicrously overpaid people coming out with the amazing insight that the "game is not over until the referee blows the final whistle" or that they have to try and undertake the immensely difficult task of "concentrating on their job" ....for one hour and a half per week!

One could perhaps liken it to a school teacher being brought before the headteacher to explain why their classroom became unfit for learning when the pupils ran amok and destroyed the furniture etc. And then admitting that they had ensured that in the morning period everything seemed to be fine but that they "did not realise that they had to maintain that order and control for the rest of the day". And these guys make these observations without the least hint of embarrassment!

In addition, it may give those who too readily assume that the current Everton team have reached such a stage of maturity that they are able to approach any game without the need to totally focus on the task of having to go out and actually win it on the pitch, actually proving that they are better than their opponents, whatever their position in the league table.

Whether or not they actually learn from today’s experience is debatable but it may well be a salutary reminder to the manager and his staff, the players and indeed some of the support base of the need to really get to grips with the meaning of the term 'professional'.

Eric Myles
214 Posted 29/11/2015 at 02:14:44
As soon as we allowed them to score their first goal, it was obvious they were going to get a second. Did we even have an attempt at goal in the second half besides the goal?

Gerri’s crossing was terrible today, fancy step-overs then gift the ball to the opposition.

And who were those idiots running onto the pitch giving the ref the opportunity to add more time on in which they score???

Peter Barry
215 Posted 29/11/2015 at 02:17:25
This was a draw which feels just like a defeat because of the way it happened and the only place the blame can be put is Martinez.

He gives the half-time team talk and he sets out the plan for the rest of the game and he controls the substitutes and when to use and when not to use them and he quite clearly does not have a clue how to effectively do either of those jobs.

Just as with Dour Davey we will win nothing under an inept incompetent manager like Martinez.

Matt Traynor
216 Posted 29/11/2015 at 02:49:51
The proverbial game of two halves. Whilst I agree with Peter (#194), it does feel like a defeat; that’s due to the fact that at 80 minutes it was 0-2, before the craziness of the last 18 minutes as it turned out.

I’d love to see the half-time stats, but at full-time, Bournemouth had dominated possession, had more shots (19-11), and more on target (10-6) than we had.

ps: Peter – what’s the master of alliteration going to come up with for Martinez? Morose Moribund Martinez?

Bob Parrington
217 Posted 29/11/2015 at 04:21:52
Poor display in the 2nd half threw away the lead. I think Howard’s positioning sense and more let us down, too.

But... at 3-2 up with seconds to go, I have to agree with Derek (#173) and others that the over-excited fans who invaded the pitch have to take some blame. A) it probably made the ref add extra extra time (with the excuse to do so!) and B) it likely took away our concentration.

Two points thrown away in very amateur fashion! Why was Lennon brought on?

Ernie Baywood
218 Posted 29/11/2015 at 05:44:02
Lennon was brought on because Deulofeu was spent. Mind you, he was spent after 55 minutes... it just took another 30 for Roberto to realise it was a huge problem.
Laurie Hartley
219 Posted 29/11/2015 at 06:37:58
Liam (184),

"Can anyone tell me what Mirallas has to do to get in that fucking side?"

There is nothing he can do. His face doesn't fit and when you find yourself in that position it is only a matter of time. He will be gone soon.

As for the performance yesterday - "never underestimate your opponent".

Darryl Ritchie
220 Posted 29/11/2015 at 07:25:23
I started to watch the game about 5 minutes before their first goal. Apparently we were better in the first half, but what I was watching was fucking awful.

On the first goal, the ball comes out to their right back, and Deulofeu, the closet man to him...jogs by him. The right back, pauses, then hits an unstoppable shot, off the post and in. Geri ends up behind him. THAT is the reason Lennon came on.

Bournemouth discovered the thing that every TWer already knows; we cannot defend crosses. If any team gets a few players in front of our goal, and pumps in a few crosses, the chances of getting rewarded are pretty good.

Still we came back. Scored what should of been the winner in the 95th minute. When the fans invaded the field, I thought it amusing at the time. Hell, if I was there, I'd probably been one of them. It shouldn't have made a difference, but the added time the invasion caused, and the fact that we were absolutely useless defensively, resulted in a single point instead of 3.

This definitely wasn't a confidence builder!

Mads Kamp
221 Posted 29/11/2015 at 07:27:19
I forgive the lot if this shock creates the nerve needed to beat Palace. AND Mirallas is a starter on that occasion.
Darren Hind
222 Posted 29/11/2015 at 07:38:43
Relax guys.

We have gotten out of Dean Court and Upton Park without losing, we now have a much easier run of fixtures coming up... Sigh.

With regard to the fans running on pitch: We have a long long history of this, for me it demonstrates just how much our fans live and breath the club. I have to say, I was kinda uncomfortable when it happened yesterday. In bygone days we would have greeted a last minute "winner" at Dean Court with a huge sigh of relief, embarrassment avoided... but yesterday our youngsters were acting as if we had just got to the cup final with a last minute Inchy header.

You make a complete twat of yourself when you run on to the pitch, but those of us who have been guilty of this terrible crime will testify to the sheer exhilaration you feel, players and fans wildly celebrating together, it never leaves you... but this was Bournemouth and even before the equaliser, I couldn't help feeling how far we have fallen.

I feel desperately sorry for these youngsters. How do you begin to explain to them what real glory feels like?

David Holroyd
223 Posted 29/11/2015 at 08:08:57
Twenty one points from fourteen games... not great, is it? Top four? We are having a laugh.

Martinez has too much faith in the players; the defence was rubbish as was midfield after the first half. As usual, the manager comes out and talks rubbish.

Paul Andrews
224 Posted 29/11/2015 at 08:27:06
Disappointing to play well and get a two-goal lead then allow them to get back to 2-2. Looking at first- and second-half stats and Murphy's comments we switched off in the second half.

Their first goal was a great strike that would have beaten any keeper, but he could have been closed down quicker. The second goal showed how much young Galloway, who has been very good, needs a break. The third goal, Cleverley (?) jumped out of a 50-50 then slack marking allowed the cross in.

Being a "glass half-full" person, another three goals and hopefully a lesson learned on how to close a game out.

Andy Walker
225 Posted 29/11/2015 at 08:34:40
Remember RM’s ’complete performance’ comments from last week when we beat the worst team we’ve played all season? It could never have been a complete performance against such dross, but it must have made the players feel nice and loved, bless them.

I wonder if our manager was at it again at half-time yesterday, telling his team how incredible they were? They certainly went out in the second half looking like they thought they’d won the game; only one word – COMPLACENCY!

Whatever the manager said, it clearly wasn’t right.

Paul Tran
226 Posted 29/11/2015 at 08:39:41
We won the game twice and still dropped two points.

It's ridiculous to blame passionate fans who travelled 600 miles and displayed more passion than the players.

Our back six can defend, but they can't concentrate. Life's about recognising and taking opportunities. Until we get some concentration and nous on the pitch, we'll keep missing them.

Paul Thompson
227 Posted 29/11/2015 at 08:39:49
Okay, it’s not rocket science, but this was my comment on one of the post-Villa threads:-

"I’m more worried about our wobbly defence – wholly untested by woeful Villa. That, I suspect, will be where our problems come against the better sides."

We have been scoring for fun this season, but we cannot hope for even a top six finish with this degree of defensive ineptitude. I don’t have a definitive explanation, but amongst the factors are:

Giving the ball away too easily and inviting pressure; Too little support for the full backs; Not closing down tightly enough; Missing Jags and Baines; Vulnerability to crosses into the box, made worse by Howard not commanding the six-yard box sufficiently.

These problems have been there since early in the season. The fact that they haven’t been sorted speaks volumes about the coaching and tactics.

Mind you we all said we wanted more exciting and unpredictable play after Moyes. Welcome to the new world.

Chris James
228 Posted 29/11/2015 at 08:46:44
Bournemouth came out and went for it in the second half and showed spirit and determination that the likes of Villa and Newcastle haven’t. Yes they are a team we should beat, but we’ve seen it repeatedly this year that anyone can beat anyone else on their day.

Naturally there were mistakes made that we need to learn from. On a tactical level, if we weren’t going to continue on the front foot and try to kill things off, then the second half would seem to have been the ideal time to pack the midfield with Kone withdrawn and either Cleverley, Gibson or Mirallas brought on and recommence our tippy-tappy possession play. Even bringing on Naismith would have made a difference in terms of closing down and Robbie has to take some flack for the sub timing at least.

However, surely the players also have to take a large chunk of the rap for this? Whatever Martinez said, I don’t imagine his instructions were "Don’t close down, sit back and be a bit shit."

There were also definite positives to take. For starters we were very good in the first half and deservedly eased into a 2-0 lead at half-time (whereas earlier in the season we seem to have had to be scored against in order to get started). Lukaku and Kone do continue to look very threatening whenever they get forward and likewise Barkley has popped up with another goal and an assist (from a corner!) which is surely the reason he’s on the pitch?

From the back, whilst there were definite issues and Baines's return looks more and more timely, Funes Mori got his first goal and has added a new threat from set-pieces, whilst Coleman appears to be back into the attacking fray with an assist and more attacking play in general.

Overall then, yes it’s disappointing, yes it is 2 points lost and yes these are precisely the games we need to be winning to ensure a European slot, nevermind threatening the Champions League. However, the game is over now, we didn’t lose and the challenge now is to channel that frustration into the next opportunity to make amends – with two massive games coming up next week. If by the end of Monday we’re sat on 24 points from 15 and looking forward to a League Cup semi-final, then the season will be back on track.

Andy Walker
229 Posted 29/11/2015 at 08:49:11
I totally agree, Darren (#205). At the time, I was actually embarrassed, even though I thought we’d just won the game.

If they hadn’t equalised I still think there would have been similar post-match comments about their behaviour. It was completely OTT for an apparent last-minute winner at Bournemouth a third of the way through the season. If it was to win the league (I wish), fair enough. Get things into perspective, guys, and take a look in the mirror.

Pete Edwards
230 Posted 29/11/2015 at 09:04:44
A poor second half, undoubtedly; everyone sat back but anyone calling to sell Barkley... really?? Take a look at his stats for this season – not just the second half yesterday or 10 mins here or there in games. Look at everything rather than trying to make an argument fit an agenda.

The manager needs to take a big part of the rap for not getting Mirallas on to try something different and give Bournemouth something to think about defensively. Massive massive game on Tuesday now.

Dave Abrahams
231 Posted 29/11/2015 at 09:08:13
Paul (#208), I agree about the defence, not good enough, but we haven’t been scoring for fun: more than half our goals have come in the last four matches, three of those games against the three bottom teams.

Harold (#194), I, like you, would like to believe that Martinez and the team will learn from yesterday’s game, Harold, I can guarantee they will not; while Martinez is in charge he will not change his tactics or style of play, the defence will continue to leak goals under his management... or lack of management.

Ian Riley
232 Posted 29/11/2015 at 09:12:00
Paul, you are right but the manner in "how we defend" is down to the manager. The first half yesterday, the players hounded in packs to win the ball, blocked shots and tackled. The second half was a last match in training. All credit to Bournemouth for not throwing in the towel. Actually they could have scored four or five in the second half.

Sadly the manager has a track record of teams defending like this, ask Wigan fans! When teams go at us, we have no discipline. Aston Villa let us play last week. Even with Baines and Co, the style implemented by the manager is not going to change. As a team, we cannot defend. I wanted to get to 3-0 quickly to relax because I knew if Bournemouth got one, another would follow.

A little bit of advice for all! Never put Everton in an accumulator! I had an eight-team one. Which team let me down? Yes, the one you love!

Anyway on to Middlesbrough!

Steve Brown
233 Posted 29/11/2015 at 09:36:51
Darren @205, bang on the money post for me. If we’d had celebrated the third goal with embarrased relief, rather than mass hysteria like we’d just won the cup, then three points would have been secured.

I don't blame the fans for that, just a reflection of what success looks like for this group of players. Lack of concentration and control caused all three goals for me, with the most criminal one being the second goal. Exactly like the goal we conceded to Adebayor to lose to Spurs.

I thought the second-half performance was diabolical, from a talented team with low expectations and no real leaders on the pitch.

Kieran Fitzgerald
234 Posted 29/11/2015 at 09:43:58
Yesterday’s game was the start of a big week in terms of us showing what we had learned in terms of consistency and being able to continue upwards on the learning curve. Bournemouth away, Middlesbrough in a cup tie and then Norwich at home were the fixtures for the week.

Two-nil up at half-time in the first of the three games and you think that we have learned, that we have put ourselves in a position to see out the game. We were finally going to break our away-game hoodoo. Yet the same negative issues surfaced in the second half and we did what we always do: we blew it. You will have the media, the fans and the players rolling their eyes watching same old Everton.

All the positivity has just melted away and you can see the other two games this week being insipid performances.

Gregory Kelly
235 Posted 29/11/2015 at 09:56:07
The second-half performance was a disgrace, as Danny Murphy graphically demonstrated on MotD. The players were arrogant and complacent and they have, of course, no right to be either. They lack a leader on the pitch to keep drumming sense into their (mostly) young heads.

Dare one say it, we miss a Phil Neville. But no excuses – on their wages, and with the support they get, the least we can expect is 90 minutes full-on commitment and concentration.

One can only think too that the manager is not hard enough on them. Might this be our Oxford in reverse? – the match and points that deprived us of a realistic chance of top 4, and ultimately leads to the breakup of what is potentially a very good team. LET’S HOPE NOT!


Brent Stephens
236 Posted 29/11/2015 at 09:58:41
Derek (#182) – cheers, mate. Interesting...
Jimmy Salt
237 Posted 29/11/2015 at 10:02:56
Danny Murphy got it spot-on on MotD. We just switched off in the second half.

The last two goals were irrelevant. We lost the points in the second-half performance.

Keith Conchie
238 Posted 29/11/2015 at 10:17:23
I said I'm my post Friday that this should have been an easy 3 points. And on the first half performance it should have been, but we relaxed too much in the 2nd half.

I also said that we are scoring a lot but also conceding too many, which has cost us a few wins already this season. We just can't seem to close matches out sometimes against the teams we should be beating.

I agree with a post above, we are often too confident with no leader on the pitch to push us.

If we beat Boro then Norwich at the weekend then it won't seem too bad.

I also think it's time for Howard to be dropped for Robles. Howard is too sure of his position and can switch off in games. He needs to feel he's got to fight for his place in the team.

Terry McLavey
239 Posted 29/11/2015 at 10:43:26
Mike (#73),

I’m sorry but did I read your comment correctly?

Results get points; points get trophies. If good performances don’t get points, what is actually the point (sorry!) of playing in the first place? We should play to win.

Helen Mallon
241 Posted 29/11/2015 at 11:21:43
Now all the McCarthy knockers may just realise he is very important to the way we play. When he went off, we had no legs to close down.

I must admit the whole team looked like they had taken a sleeping pill at half-time... very strange second half but we never lost.

Phil Rodgers
242 Posted 29/11/2015 at 11:35:29
I think, sadly, this is the difference between a good and a great side.
Patrick Murphy
243 Posted 29/11/2015 at 11:37:14
According to the BBC, The final two goals were timed at 94:45 and 97:13 – the two latest goals in the Premier League this season.

I suppose the referee is entitled to add over 2 minutes even when there were only 15 seconds left of added time.

Dave Abrahams
244 Posted 29/11/2015 at 12:02:30
For those who think we play Norwich after Middlesbrough... we don’t: we play Crystal Palace a week on Monday at home then Norwich on 12 December away.
Max Murphy
245 Posted 29/11/2015 at 12:05:13
It has been mentioned before on this forum that we have no leaders on the field. Even when Jagielka is playing, a neutral watching an Everton game would be unable to tell who is captain. There is no voice of authority, no scolding, no words of encouragement – NO TEAM SPIRIT!

The second half was a gutless pathetic affair, and gave me the feeling that I had a severe bout of diarrhea coming on – and after watching all the shit on the pitch, it was no surprise.

Kim Vivian
246 Posted 29/11/2015 at 12:08:08
15 seconds to play and a goal is scored.

It's not in the rules but a ref will generally ’stop the watch’ mentally for 30 seconds to allow celebration time for a goal unless the celebrations are excessive which in this case they were (1min:56 seconds by Derek’s chronology above) so 2 mins not unreasonable, and they will add 30 seconds for a substitution so in theory it would be easy to see the clock running to 97:30 rounded up to 98mins yesterday.

However, given that the substitution (the merits of which were nil) co-incided with the 2 minute celebration, then it is totally reasonable that the clock should have been allowed to run only to 97 minutes as no time was wasted with the substitution – which makes it seem an even more pointless decision.

They score at 97:12 so we can genuinely consider ourselves robbed, so it looks like the substitution made the difference. However, if we had won, whilst being ecstatic, I would have felt we had done a good impression of Dick Turpin by robbing Bournemouth of their well-deserved point.

I actually hope that one point makes the difference to them staying up in May.

Gary Heywood
247 Posted 29/11/2015 at 12:08:38
The arrogance of that performance was disgusting. Who the hell do they think they are? They haven’t won a trophy for nearly 30 years and yet have a mindset that they have fuck all to prove.

They have an old stadium, not fit for modern standards; no-one dare invest in them, a mid-table quality team. How dare they sit back against any team knowing that they have a vulnerable defence and a sub-average goalkeeper! This is Moyes repeating.

Everton haven’t earnt the right to sit back, they’re not talented enough to do that. The only way this team can win is to go on the attack. If they score one goal, they then need to score a second goal and then a third... they are never good enough to sit back on a lead. It’s fucking unentitled arrogance. The only thing we deserved out of that game would have been a defeat.

Eddie Dunn
248 Posted 29/11/2015 at 12:11:15
It was obvious (Ernie #201) that Deulofeu was knackered after an hour, and that Kone was either just not himself, and later also knackered.

Why didn’t the manager bring on Lennon earlier to stiffen the right-hand side? Also if he wanted to shore things-up he could have put Naismith on the left instead of Kone. Naismith always puts in a shift.

It is noticeable that, with Kone wide left, Galloway seems reluctant to bomb forward. Earlier in the season he was very dangerous in this wing back role. Even before his recent injury, Galloway was being targeted by teams as he is still learning on the job, and under the circumstances, I can’t be too critical of the lad. However, the boss should have seen that as Kone was losing possession in front of Galloway on a regular basis, that the boy was being left exposed time and again.

The right-wing sub wreaked havoc for them, as he wasn’t closed down and allowed to shoot for the goal and allowed to put in wicked crosses.

This game has shown that we can be wonderfully clinical on the attack, but we still lack the cohesion and unity of purpose to sustain concentration for the whole game. The manager has to take some of the blame for the mindset, but so do the players, especially the older heads who should have been talking the youngsters through it.

A roller-coaster of a game that was no good for my blood-pressure, and too Wiganesque for my liking, but I think in the cold light of Sunday morning, that a point down there will not look too bad at the end of the season. It should though, be a wake-up call to those on here who thought that skinning two crap teams at home was a new dawn.

Boro is going to be even more pivotal to our prospects.

Derek Thomas
249 Posted 29/11/2015 at 12:35:27
Kim (#221), the chronology matters not one jot, I know that seconds do count but over 90+mins they really shouldn’t. And on to...

Eddie (#223), that cohesion and unity of purpose comes from the top (the manager) and is achieved by rigorous training, practice and repetition – not stuff that looms large in bobby’s philosophy... and hence yesterday's result.

Moyes had a team that was organised but wasn’t allowed to play; Martinez has a team that can play but isn’t organised.

James Hughes
250 Posted 29/11/2015 at 12:46:21
We have to accept Martinez is still a work in progress and as a manager he is learning each game; that some lessons don’t seem to sink in is frustrating. The only consistent thing is our inconsistency in getting results and RM’s pets going on the team sheet first: Howard et al.

I still don’t know what to think of him but fans of other clubs are always telling me what a great manager he is. Maybe the neutrality gives a different perspective and the faults aren’t as visible to them.

I have said before I am not going to let this stress me out anymore; he is there for as long as wants to be and there is sod all we can do about it.

Keep the faith and keep hoping - definitely on Tuesday night against ’Boro – We are the mighty blues, NSNO.

Trevor Peers
251 Posted 29/11/2015 at 12:48:43
Spot-on, Derek; unfortunately, it will remain that way, we can enjoy the entertainment but little else.

Roberto will never be a great organiser; if we had more funds and he was able to purchase great players, maybe he would enjoy success at the highest level. As it stands, we will never know.

Colin Glassar
252 Posted 29/11/2015 at 13:00:04
We really need Chelsea, WBA, Norwich and Swansea to win today to soften a bit the blow from yesterday.
Jay Wood
253 Posted 29/11/2015 at 13:14:01
Derek’s detailed timings of the end-of-game events correspond with my own calculations. That is, Bournemouth scored 32 seconds after re-starting the game following Barkley’s goal, then the ref blew up for the end of the game 15 seconds after we restarted... 47 seconds playing time in total after we went 3-2 up.

Given the introduction of Gibson, for which refs add 30 additional seconds playing time, all very legitimate. Blaming the ref for their late equaliser is to shift the blame from where it should lie. It also ignores the acres of space allowed for the Cherries late, late equaliser, to play down our right hand side from which the assist came and the lack of challenge – once again – in our own penalty area at the heart of our defence.

Principally, the loss of two points yesterday lies squarely on the shoulders of Roberto Martinez for not being pro-active enough earlier in the second half whilst we still had a modicum of control of the game when 2-0 up.

Necessary and effective substitutions at that juncture – when it was patently obvious we were being too passive and starting to sit too deep – would have woken the team up and changed the dynamics of the game which were clearly shifting in Bournemouth’s favour.

All the talk in the week from the club, but from Martinez in particular (including ’not being complacent’), was of the importance of the next 18 games (no less!)... of making a serious challenge for a top 4 spot and Champions League football... of the quality of his charges... of the club’s need to attain Champions League if we wanted to retain those players with ambitions to play Champions League football.

If the manager and the players didn’t know it before, they should now. Nobody gifts you Champions League qualification. Nobody gifts you goals or results in the Premier League, no matter what their standing in the league.

Yesterday, we played a spirited Bournemouth who are wallowing in 18th position for a reason. In the 7 of 13 league games before yesterday when they had conceded the first goal, they lost. In all the games Everton have scored first in this season before yesterday, we have won. In 7 home games before yesterday, Bournemouth had scored a grand total of 5 goals. In 13 league games before yesterday, Bournemouth had scored just 4 of their 13 league goals in the second half of games. Yesterday, Bournemouth scored 3 goals in the final 15 minutes of the game against Everton.

What does that tell you about the team, the players, the manager?

This can go one of two ways in my eyes. This will be a serious wake-up call and the players will add levels of concentration, application, doggedness, cussedness and a winning desire that, for this observer, is too often lacking. Alternatively, this will torpedo the players' confidence and we will continue to see brilliance, mixed with timidity and incompetence, often within the same game, and we will stumble along, achieving not a great deal in the top half of the table.

The players and the manager have got to start walking the walk and not merely blagging the blag.

Jamie Barlow
254 Posted 29/11/2015 at 13:23:56
"After our ’winner’, we should have been able to shut up shop for thirty seconds. Nobody to blame but the gaffer. Pathetic."

Blaming only our manager? Now that is pathetic. There were 11 Everton players out on the pitch who were more to blame.

Mike Hughes
255 Posted 29/11/2015 at 13:24:40
I’ve read through quite a few of the comments on here and, further to my earlier post, I’d like to remind everyone of this important point:

RM post match: "We don’t focus on results, we focus on performances."

So anyone hoping for silverware or top 4, can sit back, relax and smile. We’ve got it all wrong. Those things don’t matter. So why worry? Don’t sweat the small stuff.

As long as the performance was akin (in RM’s mind) to a trophy-winning one or top 4 one, then the result is academic.

When RM said to BK, "I’ll get you the Champions League", he must have coughed the word "performances" right afterwards. BK thought it was just a cough.

I’ve seen the light and am going to view the match as I believe RM views it from now on. Who wants a scabby win when there’s a phenomenal draw just waiting there? I’m going to enjoy counting the passes from here on in. I’m in an amazing moment. Incredible.


Denis Richardson
256 Posted 29/11/2015 at 13:45:50
Hard first ten games or not, no game should be taken for granted until the final whistle blows. 2-0 is never a guaranteed match-winning position, especially when there’s still 45 mins to play. Time and again, we’ve shown that we don’t have the discipline to see out games. The manager should have made changes much sooner in the second half, we’ve been in this position many many times before.

In saying that, overall it’s 2 points dropped but we were lucky to win against West Brom, so swings and roundabouts, onto the next game. Until we sort out our defence, we are never going to challenge; it really is that simple. We conceded 50 league goals last season and we’ve already conceded 19 after just 14 games, even the likes of Watford, Stoke and Swansea have conceded less, nevermind the sides above us.

Many people got carried away with the Sunderland and Villa results, two great results but against very weak teams. The games against Palace and Leicester are going to be harder than those just played and Norwich are not going to roll over at home. The players and manager need to try and learn from this and 100% focus now needs to go into the Boro game now – we are in the quarterfinal and no complacency can be allowed. The blow to our fragile confidence should we go out could completely derail the season. On the flip side, getting into a semi-final could just be the big boost needed to finally have a decent Xmas period.

Mirallas needs to start on Tuesday for me.

Charles McCann
257 Posted 29/11/2015 at 13:46:17
Peter Jansson (#124) has made some excellent points on this thread. Well said indeed.

I would like to add that I’m starting to lose faith in Martinez also. He made some very poor decisions yesterday with regards substitutions. Kone, who played well in the first half when our midfield was in control, was having a very poor second half and should have been replaced by Mirallas with at least 20 mins to go. Kone is a good player but is being played out of position as a left winger.

Yesterday's 2nd-half performance was as poor as I’ve seen in quite a while. It reminded me of the days of Moyes when we would try and hold on and defend deep to our lead rather than having the courage and conviction to get the ball down and try to maintain possession.

Losing McCarthy is a big blow as he does so much work in covering for Barry. On the plus side, it might let Roberto see that we have three other decent midfielders in Gibson, Cleverly and Besic.

Roberto’s blind loyalty to Howard and Barry I fear will leave us with another disappointing season. What makes this harder to accept is that the talent is there but our manager as yet can’t see it.

Jamie Barlow
258 Posted 29/11/2015 at 13:51:24
Darren @205, I wouldn’t say they were all youngsters who run on to the pitch. There’s quite a few on there who would have watched us throughout the 80s.
David Hallwood
259 Posted 29/11/2015 at 13:55:12
We were the game of the day on Sky so I watched the entire 90 mins, and as everyone knows, it was the proverbial game of two halves. In the 2nd half, I couldn’t believe what I was watching. Neither could Danny Murphy, on MotD he pointed out that players weren’t being closed down, not tasty tackles, no fouls given to break up play.

If I, Danny Murphy, and the rest of us can see that, why can’t Martinez? Substitutions make managers; if there was ever a game to put Besic and Naismith on the hour mark this was it.

Final point: it doesn’t look good for Mirallas, does it?

Jamie Barlow
260 Posted 29/11/2015 at 13:55:32
Charles @232, Barry has been one of our best players this season.
Peter McHugh
261 Posted 29/11/2015 at 13:57:25
Phil (#126) – yep I do. Very annoying; however, how we just aren’t sharp enough mentally. Perhaps the fact Bournemouth scored the 3rd is a good thing in the long run. The manager hypes them up but they’re not as good as they think they are.

We have good players and play good football but we do the basics poorly. For example, our defending of corners is abysmal. Great strike by Bournemouth to get a goal back but Deulofeu just runs past the lad inexplicably and then nobody closed him down.

Yes, all the basics are down to the manager but surely that is easier to resolve and our manager can fix that, especially once Jags and Baines are back in the defence. The general play is a high standard and I’m still clinging to the positives a lot better than last season.

Tony Hill
262 Posted 29/11/2015 at 13:59:01
Jay (#228), yes, your closing remarks sum it up. I hope this is indeed a wake-up call because it has to be. There is still a great deal, of course, to play for but I really do not want to hear any more loose words before games from the players and manager. We just need to do it and build momentum – and shut about it until we have achieved something worth talking about.

On the playing side, I would love to see Besic get a run. He has fire in him that young man.

Charles McCann
263 Posted 29/11/2015 at 14:05:38
Jamie, I can’t agree with your opinion. For me he is a liability. He has a habit of looking okay against poor sides but, against the better sides, his pace leaves him totally exposed, hence all the fouls and yellow cards he gets!

Even yesterday in the second half, against a team with mediocre players, he showed no leadership to dictate the play in a manner which would have seen us comfortably see out the game. However, I respect your opinion and I guess we’re just seeing things very differently!

John Malone
264 Posted 29/11/2015 at 14:06:16
Still gutted! Really worried about playing a hard working well organised Boro away on Tuesday now!

Hopefully we get to see Baines and Mirallas on the left instead of Galloway and Kone who I think have showed they don’t work well away from home as a pair!

I'm interested to see what shape and team Martinez picks for Tuesday. I’d be happy with a 4-4-2 with Kone alongside Lukaku!

Ray Roche
265 Posted 29/11/2015 at 14:17:43
I can see Martinez making plenty of changes for Tuesday: Baines, Besic, Cleverley, maybe even Mirallas, although he must have really upset Soft Lad not to have been given a run out yesterday after looking so impressive when he came on against Villa.

I get the impression that if you cross Martinez you’re stuffed. If that IS the case, then Martinez can go right now. I don’t buy a season ticket to fund his petty vanities.

Yesterday was crying out for someone like Mirallas, a game changer who has goals in him. For all their good first-half performances, Barkley and Kone should have gone after an hour, and Deulofeu was also tiring and could and should have been subbed earlier.

Fair play to Bournemouth for sticking at it but they must have thought Christmas had come early the way we stood back and allowed them into the game after half time. Not just the players, not just the fans who came on to the pitch... the buck stops with Martinez and his inadequate use of the subs at his disposal.

Darren Hind
267 Posted 29/11/2015 at 14:24:32
No, Jamie (#233)...

I was yards away.

Paul Kelly
268 Posted 29/11/2015 at 14:44:26
Please leave the fans alone, it’s got nothing to do with them for the time being added on! There were 16 seconds to go when we scored (cheers, Derek Thomas), the only reason the game played longer was down to the substitution (Gibson) 30 seconds added on plus them being on the attack. If the fans celebrated (hypothetical) for two days there wouldn’t be two days of added game play would they?

FFS, the journey they’ve made, expenses and that second-half performance they had to endure, and what we all thought to be the winner... let them have their moment! (I've done the same thing many moons ago...)

We know where the blame lies... it ain’t with the fans!

Peter Jansson
269 Posted 29/11/2015 at 15:19:32
Thank you, Charles (#232).
Christopher Timmins
270 Posted 29/11/2015 at 15:33:38
Blaming the fans is a joke; we let in 3 in the last 18 minutes of normal and added time. The buck stops with the team and the manager!!!
Eddie Dunn
271 Posted 29/11/2015 at 15:37:52
Remember when a player scored a goal and turned and trotted back to the centre circle with possibly a handshake from a teammate? Ross, who had a poor game, got into the box and turned and popped one through the keeper... game over.

Cue exultant "Me, Me, Me" celebrations as he runs towards our fans... cue invasion and pile of bodies. Result: adrenaline overload, game in bag, total lack of concentration all over the place, from the bumbling manager trying to make a sub, to lazy midfielders watching the game.

We hadn’t won the Cup or secured a top 4 spot; no, we had (we thought) got the three points after gift-wrapping a draw to a severely weakened team, who were there for the taking, with the sub goalie making his second half-debut, etc.

Poor, poor management, and prima-donna players, who think that they are God’s gift to Football. They have all got a lot to learn and, if they don’t hurry-up, we will be out of the League Cup on Tuesday night.

Alastair Donaldson
272 Posted 29/11/2015 at 15:46:29
IMHO on the pitch our problems emanate from the goalkeeper... millions of postings on here about him, it’s boring.

The "Scum" link us and the RS with Butland now... hahaha... no chance. The difference a keeper makes coming off his line (and connecting!) is huge – he has to be replaced with someone who inspires confidence and distributes as well as he communicates. Big Nev, Nigel Martyn... etc.

Off the pitch, Martinez seems tactically inconsistent and unable to use his squad strength... for fear of what? – Upsetting some of the players who’ll struggle to get contracts elsewhere? The idea of squad numbers seems lost.

I’d love us to be able to rely on a 1 to 11 each week, but the modern game needs superhuman physical strength and more than 11 each week. We should expect to see all the outfield players, certainly midfield and attack, running themselves into the ground trying to pressure and regain the ball... so straight-forward!!!

I subscribe to Phil’s thoughts on Wayne, he is a talisman, needing a new challenge... I reckon he’ll quit England after the Euros which might add a couple more years to his Premier League career.... btw, he’s pretty good in goal as well!!

Keep the faith.

Darryl Ritchie
273 Posted 29/11/2015 at 16:04:46
Gibson didn't come on in open play. The game wasn't delayed when he came in, he was substituted before the restart. No added time.
Jamie Barlow
274 Posted 29/11/2015 at 16:16:54
No what Darren?
John Keating
275 Posted 29/11/2015 at 16:19:22
The additional time played, for whatever reason, in this case should be a non-issue. The fact is that at half-time we were 2-up and in control. Totally inept tactics and abysmal play in the second half resulted in us throwing away 2 points to a bottom-of-the-league team playing their third-choice keeper that we never tested until Barkley's goal. The tactics are set by the management and there the buck stops.

Any poster that tries to implicate ref or fans for that fiasco should take a look at themselves. The only ones who come out of this with any kudos are the support who travel the length of Britain at considerable cost in sometimes horrendous conditions to watch that shite.

Barry Pearce
276 Posted 29/11/2015 at 16:22:18
To me, Cleverley shouldn’t have came on for Jimmy Mac if he wasn’t prepared to make a tackle. To me, this as much as anything, cost us the game.

Jimmy Mac would have won that ball; Cleverley bottled it.

Alan Bodell
277 Posted 29/11/2015 at 16:33:51
A 2-goal lead in the Premier League is not unsurpassable against most teams; we did it not so long ago to win 3-2 away... but what is most fucking disgraceful is that we never pushed on in the 2nd. half for another before we got twatted – and, much as I hate to say it, it is what we deserved.

Will we lose 2 points here to wake us up for future similar scenarios? I fucking hope so... Mirallas would have filled his boots for the last 30 mins.

Jonathan Miller
278 Posted 29/11/2015 at 17:15:26
If the fans hadn’t invaded the pitch after the third goal, the ref would have blown up as soon as they kicked off.

Fair play to Bournemouth, they did not deserve to lose. We were asleep 2nd half thinking we had the points in the bag and one eye on Tuesday.

I actually don’t like it when Deulofeu comes off as it allows teams to come at us even more, the threat of what he can do keeps two defenders occupied. IMO, Kone should have been replaced by Mirallas.

Hugh Jenkins
279 Posted 29/11/2015 at 17:22:22
Derek (#230). Your observation is startling in its simplicity, but sums up the problem so succinctly.

The difficulty we face, is finding a solution to our present conundrum.

Ideally it would be that RM "finds" organisational abilities within himself, or does so by engaging a good defensive coach to work with the players.

The alternative though, is for RM to be replaced by someone who possesses the necessary organisational abilities, whilst having the nous to let the gifted players play their natural game within an "organised " framework.

It is probably unrealistic to expect option 2 to materialise anytime soon, so we must pray that as part of RM's own personal development in the managerial role, he will quickly see the need for him to adapt to option one and take whatever steps are necessary to put it in place.

We can but hope.

Kim Vivian
281 Posted 29/11/2015 at 17:56:02
Derek (#249), I was simply using your (very useful) chronology to reconcile in my own mind how much actual time should have been played in addition to the official 5 minutes and came to the conclusions I posted.

Unfortunately the celebrations and the substitution contrived to conjure up an extra 3 minutes to our misfortune. It is ridiculous though, that there should be so much debate about this. We should have been home and dry – a fact on which everyone seems to concur.

Gutted I am but I woke up this morning and the world seemed pretty much the same, life goes on and I Iook forward to Boro, Palace and Norwich – all on TV thankfully as I can’t get to many matches.

Kim Vivian
282 Posted 29/11/2015 at 18:06:08
Oh, and Darryl @ 273 - precisely the point I was making in my original post. But that substitution cost us when it shouldn't have.
Nicholas Ryan
283 Posted 29/11/2015 at 19:00:35
I have nothing to say ... my anger is beyond words.
Paul Tran
284 Posted 29/11/2015 at 20:14:12
The only good that will come out of yesterday will be if Martinez realises that this team needs a bit of nous and cussedness (thanks Jay!) that it doesn't currently have. That's the priority for January.

Good players is one thing, a bit of devil and nous is another.

Darren Hind
285 Posted 29/11/2015 at 20:21:31
Paul (#284),

Welcome aboard; people have been screaming out for that for years.

Question is: Is Robbie a winner? ... Would he recognise a winner if he fell over him on County Road??? /

Darryl Ritchie
286 Posted 29/11/2015 at 20:40:18
Kim @ 282 - How? Honest question.
Paul Tran
287 Posted 29/11/2015 at 20:41:22
Darren, I’ll go back to a point I made regularly last season. There’s a good manager in Martinez if he knows when to reign in his stubbornness. I think he thought he’d got his winner when he brought in Eto’o, but that didn’t happen for whatever reason. I would love us to go and find a leader, not like bloody Neville, but someone with a bit of class who can boss a game.

I think that would make the difference. My question would be: I think Martinez would recognise a leader, but would he have the bottle to bring him in and manage him? I think he’s a bit like Moyes in that regard.

Not sure what you’re welcoming me to, Darren, as it’s something I was crying out for when the last guy was in charge, but I guess it’s good for us to agree sometimes!

Kim Vivian
288 Posted 29/11/2015 at 20:59:56
Darryl (#286):

1) It shouldn’t have happened in the first place so there would have been no time add-on for the ref to consider. Totally without merit.
2) Sub was made while celebrations were happening so had no impact on game time ie in the context of time wasting while the substitution was made which is were the 30 seconds get added. Bournemouth scored 15 seconds before the end.

When you think about it –time added after 45 mins – average 1-2mins;; time added after 90 mins – average 4 mins reflects time added for substitutions. Plus any injury time (as it used to be called).

Kim Vivian
289 Posted 29/11/2015 at 21:04:47
Just clarifying my own posts - I am not inferring that the celebrations added 2 mins to the playing time - only time on the clock, but the substitution did add 30 seconds to the playing time.
Colin Glassar
290 Posted 29/11/2015 at 21:10:18
Paul, we definitely need a leader on the pitch but who? Martinez is always going on about players with the 'right character' but what does that mean exactly?

Personally, I think he likes to run a happy ship where all the players get on and like each other. Eto'o, by all accounts, wasn't interested in being nice but playing and winning at any cost hence his quick removal and the demotion of his mate Distin (Pienaar was saved by his long term injury) after rocking the boat.

Would Rooney be a good fit? I think he's got the personality and ability to move us up a peg or two. Windjalum (?) stands out like a sore thumb at Newcastle with his talent and drive would also be a good option. We need a big personality on the pitch who is happy to be the main man and take responsibility when the other players are flagging or simply shitting themselves.

Darryl Ritchie
291 Posted 29/11/2015 at 21:17:06
Kim- reread my post. Gibson came on prior to the restart, while Friend was waiting for the pitch to be cleared. When you make a sub prior to the second half kickoff, is time added on? His substitution shouldn't have any effect on time added.
Mike Galley
292 Posted 29/11/2015 at 21:17:32
Obviously, I’m as angry/frustrated as all blues with this game. I’d like to ask you all a question if that’s okay?

I’ve seen a few comments on here with regards to Kone and Deulofeu running out of steam. I noticed this myself. Does anyone else think there’s an issue with the fitness of the players?

Colin Glassar
293 Posted 29/11/2015 at 21:37:42
Due to the fact that Kone has hardly played any football for the last two years, Mike, and Deulofeu rarely played last season? I’m no expert but perhaps they are starting to feel the strain playing week-in & week-out.
Paul Tran
294 Posted 29/11/2015 at 22:05:39
Colin, it all depends on what he means by right character. By all accounts Eto'o was a bad apple, but I can't help wondering whether he took one look at Martinez and saw through him.

Is Martinez strong enough to bring in a strong personality? I'm not convinced. Mind you, I'm not sure there's many of those players around - certainly can't think of an English one.

As I've mentioned previously, we've got good players without a winning mentality. I don't think Martinez will bring that to the players he inherited and I don't think he'll do it for 'his' players without a strong character on the pitch.

We can blast all we like about tactics and tippy tappy, but yesterday was all about the missing steady hand who can take charge of a game and drag his colleagues over the line.

Whether Martinez is able to do this will make or break his time with us.

Kim Vivian
295 Posted 29/11/2015 at 22:30:02
Darryl, I think you will find that a substitution made in the first half will add time to that half. Subs are used so much as a time wasting tactic (for obvious reasons) in the second half that the 30 sec rule of thumb has become precedential.

If RM had not made the switch when he did, I think the clock would have run down at 97 mins, give or take a few seconds, ie, right after the restart.

Notwithstanding the fact that the playing time was not affected by the substitution. I simply do not understand why Gibson was brought on. Can anyone help me with that?

Anyway I think we are both making the same point, mate. Pointless and expensive decision making by RM on the day.

Darryl Ritchie
296 Posted 29/11/2015 at 23:26:48
Cheers, mate. Let's put this one to bed.
Tony Abrahams
297 Posted 29/11/2015 at 23:32:56
Embarrassed by the fans, celebrating an apparent last minute winner at Bournemouth????

Let’s get things in perspective, Andy (#229). We might be Everton, but we haven’t won a fucking cup for over 20 years, mate. My two sons travel the length and breadth of the country to watch Everton but, other than a cup final which we lost, Nuremberg is probably as good as it has ever been.

I used to ask them when they were younger, would they prefer a family holiday, or watch Everton in Europe? No need to tell you the answer, and these two kids who have both been watching Everton since they were three and have never seen us win a cup.

When we finally win something again, a scene from RIPPING YARNS awaits!!!

Gavin Johnson
298 Posted 30/11/2015 at 00:16:19
We definitely need a strong leader/personality on the field. You’d think these characteristics would be mutually exclusive, but I’m not sure that’s the case.

Case in point: Phil Neville, mouthy on the pitch but seems to have the personality of one of those snake draft-excluders. Mark Hughes could be another one: one of the strongest, competitive players you’d ever field on the park, but off it, a very quiet man, by all accounts.

So from that I’d deduce that there’s no reason Martinez can’t sign a player who can be the leader we need and can be an example that the younger players can follow. It comes down to personality, and for every Eto’o, there’s someone like Rooney, who I don’t think for one minute would undermine Martinez just because he’s won everything.

James Flynn
299 Posted 30/11/2015 at 01:46:08
Gavin (298) - Not going to happen.

No player on the pitch will supersede Roberto. It's just they way he is.

They're his "boys"? They'll play forever. Think any of them will lift their head up?

We will not have a true on-pitch leader under Martinez.

Not happening.

John Codling
300 Posted 30/11/2015 at 03:48:28
Michael (#25), yes, you are right, but the Ref added 2 minutes because of the morons that invaded the pitch. Hope they realise they cost us 2 points. I hope they get prosecuted.
Brother Anthony
301 Posted 30/11/2015 at 04:45:19
@Jonathan Miller 278

I was wondering the same. Irrespective of substitutions, lack of drive in the second half etc. If the "jubilant" fans had kept their emotions off the pitch rather than emotionally charged would we have scraped a win?

A lesson learned for our traveling fans perhaps? The game isn’t over until the man in black blows the whistle.
James Marshall
302 Posted 30/11/2015 at 06:50:48
John (#300),

Prosecuted, really? Come off it. If Bournemouth hadn’t equalised you wouldn’t have come out with that.

People followed one bloke onto the pitch in a moment of jubilation – when have you ever gone to a game (especially an away game) and not celebrated wildly when we score a goal, regardless of the opposition?

It’s about context, not who you’re playing. We’d been shit all second half, then Ross scores in the 95th minute, charges over to the supporters and celebrates – what would you do, stand there and gently applaud?

What a load of rubbish some people come out with on here. Good luck to the away fans celebrating a perceived winner with our players. Long may it continue.

Graham Mockford
303 Posted 30/11/2015 at 07:31:23
James (#302),

Completely agree, there is a certain irony about a fan sat on his computer wanting to blame fans who did a 500-mile round journey to support the team.

Sam Hoare
304 Posted 30/11/2015 at 07:47:46
It's the players who are paid a fortune every week to focus and maintain concentration for 90+ minutes. Not the fans! Yes, they were premature but to blame them is ludicrous.
Abhishek Saha
305 Posted 30/11/2015 at 08:02:02
We need 4 points in our 4 away games against the RS, Manure, Man City and Chelski to make up the points we threw away against Watford and now Bournemouth.
Tony Abrahams
306 Posted 30/11/2015 at 08:42:52
A fantastic post by John (#300), I sincerely hope you're not on jury service anywhere this week!
John Keating
307 Posted 30/11/2015 at 09:01:30
John (#300),

The only morons and people who should be prosecuted are the idiots who allowed a 2-goal lead to slip and the management who encouraged totally inept tactics to be played second half.

Regarding the supporters who travel the length of England to watch Everton, well they deserve medals.

Gavin Johnson
308 Posted 30/11/2015 at 09:20:48
James #299

I don’t think any player should be bigger than the manager. I’m firmly in the camp that if a player has an attitude he should either be sold or banished to the U 21 team.

If Martinez had won a trophy by now, I think most fans would be applauding the way he’s dealt with players who’ve crossed him, much in the same way Fergie was at Man Utd.

In the case of Eto’o he seems like the kind of personality who would be a nightmare for anyone to manage. Didn’t he fall out with the Sampdoria manager in the first week he was there, over his training methods?!

With Mirallas, we all know he’s a prima donna. Do I think he should be playing more?! Yes, I do. But if he’s spitting his dummy out thinking he’s better than he is, then we should sell him in January.

I also think Distin stunk the place out last season and he was rightly dropped. Jags also had a poor run run of form in the back 4, but Distin was the worst of bad bunch. He played well on Saturday, but I’m not surprised Bournemouth have conceded so many with him playing in their back 4. I think anyone who was defending Distin’s behaviour last season were just using it as confirmation bias against the manager.

OFM, had his favourites. The majority of managers do. How many fans would have forgiven Drenthe for turning up late and lying about his car being stolen for the semi-final and played him, because he looked the only creative player in a very pedestrian Moyes team?!

I think it all comes down to personality and we can still buy a leader without the ego or baggage. Martinez can buy a Phil Neville or Lee Carsley who were leaders on the pitch and professionals off it.

Ray Roche
309 Posted 30/11/2015 at 10:03:57
Graham, James, Sam, yes, it’s dead easy to blame the fans for losing it when we’ve just scored away from home in the 95th minute. (If I was there and didn’t need a new knee, I’d have probably joined them...) But if Barkley hadn’t legged it straight to them, they’d no doubt have stayed in their seats.

I’ve not got a downer on Barkley, but I HAVE got a downer on footballers who go over the top with celebrations; how many of them just run straight to the side of the pitch where there just happens to be a camera? It’s an old saying but you are always vulnerable when you’ve just scored, because you lose concentration.

Look, I know just how passionate we can all be with Everton but if he had reigned it in just a little bit we’d have won with HIS goal.

Oh for the days of a manly handshake, a side parting and tattoos only on Popeye’s arm...

Colin Glassar
310 Posted 30/11/2015 at 10:21:56
48 hours later and this result really is still hurting. I still haven’t been able to watch the entire (recorded) game on SNF because I know I’m just going to get angry again.

Just a word on Tim Howard and his criticism of the "pitch invasion". Tim, you are one of the senior players. You are considered a leader on and off the pitch so, why the fuck do you stand there like a statue whilst watching that 2nd half debacle? Why aren’t you screaming like a nut case at the lads to get their act together?

Howard and Barry have to accept that they didn’t show any leadership, or experience, in that 2nd half.

Brent Stephens
311 Posted 30/11/2015 at 10:35:54
Ray (#309). I agree about the celebrations. I think it was Liverpool yesterday, when they scored they all crowded round Milner, but there seemed to be a few moments of calming down before they went back to the centre circle, composed and ready. A Klopp influence?

"Oh for the days of a manly handshake, a side parting and tattoos only on Popeye’s arm....", you say. And Brylcreem.

Gavin Johnson
312 Posted 30/11/2015 at 10:36:14
It sounds like Howard's trying to place the blame somewhere else and not taking responsibility for his own part.

I've not read or seen the interview but it sounds like something he'd say. He sounds like a man who has problems taking responsibility for anything in life.

Ray Roche
313 Posted 30/11/2015 at 10:55:40

Brylcreem. We used to use Corporation Hair Oil.

Or water, as it’s also known.

Brent Stephens
314 Posted 30/11/2015 at 10:57:54
Ray, I thought water was corporation pop.
Steve Carse
315 Posted 30/11/2015 at 11:06:20
Colin (#290), I think you are right in believing Martinez focusses on keeping the players as happy as possible, particularly those on the fringes. This shows itself in his substitutions.

So, for example, last week he gives Mirallas a late run out. This week it was Lennon’s turn, as it was the week before Mirallas got his go. It seems to matter less that these are the appropriate replacements at the time.

Ray Roche
316 Posted 30/11/2015 at 11:12:22
Brent, clearly a utility commodity.... some people even used it for washing with. Weirdos.
Brent Stephens
317 Posted 30/11/2015 at 11:21:40
Ray. Washing! Now there's a use for it!
Kim Vivian
318 Posted 30/11/2015 at 11:23:19
FFS people. The pitch invasion was imbecilic (not mitigatable but understandable) and all of you (you know who you are) who think otherwise ... the ref did NOT ADD TWO MINUTES EXTRA PLAYING TIME. The only extra playing time came from that ludicrous Gibson substitution. 30 seconds plus about 15 secs of the 5 mins left got turned in to a full minute.

I'm leaving this alone now.

Patrick Murphy
319 Posted 30/11/2015 at 11:25:24
FFS now we have to take lessons from the other side about how to celebrate a goal. We should be thankful that we have goals to celebrate, even if we have conceded too many in the process.

Dave Pritchard
320 Posted 30/11/2015 at 11:44:38
The players and management messed up in a major way. Yes, the fans messed up a bit by running on. It is done now and can't be changed. Let all concerned learn from the experience and move on to beating Middlesbrough tomorrow night.
Michael Penley
321 Posted 30/11/2015 at 11:54:20
Steve (#315), that sounds like my Under-12 coach’s philosophy. Amateurish.

I’d like someone to ask Martinez what exactly was the point of the Gibson substitution? I would love to hear him talk his way out of that one.

Derek Thomas
322 Posted 30/11/2015 at 12:02:17
Colin (#310); you’re spot on, both are old enough to know better. Howard is quick enough to mouth off when he thinks he’s left out to dry in the box.

Which links into Gavin’s point about blame avoidance. Twice Howard has had stick and more or less said: "You can’t judge me, you lot don’t know fuck all." (gist)

As most of us know, it starts at the top; also, that the ’Philosophy’ is never wrong... and did he really say the performance matters more than the result? No wonder there are no talkers on the pitch, there IS only one voice... there’s no show without punch.

Martinez has been at the sharp end of the Premier League for 7 years and he’s still making basic mistakes. I fear he doesn’t see them as mistakes, just circumstances that don’t conform to the ’Philosophy’ whatever the fuck that movable feast actually is.

And in reality, the Philosophy is whatever he says it is at any given time. He’s the boss and he’s not going anywhere in the foreseeable future.

The MOB uniform is now officially out of the wardrobe.

Craig Walker
323 Posted 30/11/2015 at 13:03:21
When Bournemouth got their first, I knew it would get to 2-2. When Ross scored, my brother rang all euphoric. I said "We’ll still throw it away".

This is Everton. Why see out a 2-0 lead when you can put the fans through the ringer? It really did feel like a defeat at the weekend.

What worries me is that we threw a two goal lead away at home to Arsenal last season and it affected the team for months.

Middlesbrough on Tuesday will not be easy. Not great when your team needs to be 3-0 up before your fans can be assured of the points.

Paul Cherrington
325 Posted 30/11/2015 at 14:02:03
I just can’t believe this result – I was so sure we would beat these and we bloody well should have. Forget about injury time, fans coming on the pitch etc... we lost this by giving away a two-goal lead. No way in a million years should you lose when you’re two-nil up with the finishing line in sight.

Totally the manager's fault for me – the team play how he lets them so if they’re out there not putting the effort in; it's down to him. Or down to him to sort it out.

Next stoppage, he gets the nearest player over and tells him to pass the message on, in no uncertain terms, to get their arses in gear. And if they don’t, he rips them to pieces in the dressing room afterwards... like when Roy Keane kung-fu kicked that tactics board.

Bill Gall
326 Posted 30/11/2015 at 14:13:49
Blaming pitch invasion, too much added time, is simply making excuses for the players and especially the manager, for allowing Bournemouth to get back in the game.

After being two-nil down at half time, surely our manager must have expected Bournemouth’s to make changes, yet he did not make any moves to counteract it when they got on top; he only made a change when McCarthy was injured.

This had nothing to do with the supporters or the time added on; this was simply an amateur performance in game management by the manager allowing his team to take their foot of the gas.

Jay Wood
327 Posted 30/11/2015 at 14:28:10
Gavin @ 312

"It sounds like Howard's trying to place the blame somewhere else and not taking responsibility for his own part.

I've not read or seen the interview but it sounds like something he'd say. He sounds like a man who has problems taking responsibility for anything in life."

Perhaps you should read or see the interview before leaping to conclusions. These are TH's actual words on the incident:

"You want to take time to celebrate but you don't want to take too much time.

"You got the sense that once the celebration went on the time would be added on and unfortunately it was.

"We all thought we had won it, but we didn't. In the end we got the goal we needed but then we didn't have that little bit of concentration we needed."

Care to highlight in those quotes ANY condemnation of the fans, Gavin?

This quote is reported in any number of reports. The Daily Star quoted exactly the same words, but this is how they reported it. Under a big, bold headline "Tim Howard: Everton fans celebrating on the pitch cost us a victory against Bournemouth" followed by a smaller sub-heading: "TIM HOWARD claims Everton’s fans cost them a precious win - by celebrating too much."

The following are the opening 3 paragraphs of the Star report:

"Tim Howard believes that Everton "let themselves down" with the protracted celebration of Ross Barkley’s goal in the sixth minute of stoppage time.

In the extra minutes added, Bournemouth scored an equaliser. "It added some time on unfortunately," Everton's American goalkeeper said.

"We just lacked composure. We cause chaos for other teams but let ourselves down."

Again, I ask you Gavin, any criticism of the fans - implicit or explicit - in Tim's words, d'ya think...?

And yet, beneath this quote is a photo of Tim with the caption: "DISMAY: Howard hit out at Everton fans."


Don't believe me? Here's the link to the very page.

This is sensationalist tabloid journalism at its worst. But possibly even more shameful is you believing the false spin the Star put on Tim's words WITHOUT EVEN SEEING OR READING ANY REPORT!!!

And this from a man who in this very thread has spoken of 'confirmation bias' you attribute to fellow TWers in regards to their perception of Roberto.

Your post smacks of gross hypocrisy, Gavin.

Ray Roche
328 Posted 30/11/2015 at 14:53:41
Jay, any comments attributed to the Star in, say, NewsNow are given a miss by me, it is nothing but a rag.

There is never anything of substance in it unless you’re hooked on the pneumatic breasts familiar to those who have sufficient time on their hands to waste it as they watch Celebrity Big Brother with a box of Kleenex at their side. It’s complete rubbish.

Howard has been unfairly stitched up by that excuse for a newspaper and I thought most Evertonians were bright enough to see it for what it is. Crap.

Shane Corcoran
332 Posted 30/11/2015 at 15:15:50
This is a bloody long thread but there’s one thing I don’t get; I thought that once Everton don’t lose then to criticise the performance in any way makes you a moaner/whinger.

Anyway, most points have been covered but I think I’ll have a moan anyway.

McCarthy going off highlighted how important he is but that doesn’t mean that the criticism of him previously was unjust. He still offers little in possession.

Barkely needs direction from the coaching staff both in and out of possession.

While I’m at it, Howard was blameless for the goals but has anyone ever seen the like of his "attempt" to come for the cross in the first half that resulted in Stones clearing it off the line? He walked in the general direction of where the ball was likely to land and then he just stopped before he got there. I don’t even think he raised his arms. He was like and ould lad that went for a walk and forgot where he was going.

Anyway, win tomorrow and next Monday and it’s happy days. Top four by the the end of the year and then a big January. Now where’s the rest of that bottle........

Oh yeah, the fans on the pitch; fair fucks to them. A bit of genuine passion instead of "your support is fucking shit" and such classics.

Colin Glassar
333 Posted 30/11/2015 at 16:02:26
I’ve just plucked up the courage to watch the game in its entirety and I have one or two points to highlight:

1) If there was ever a game to play tippy-tappy football, that was it. For some reason, we decided to go with the long ball and most of them went out of play or to an opponent. The weather conditions were awful (as seen by the amount of swirling rubbish on the pitch); if we are a team comfortable in possession, why did we change our style?

2) Galloway needs resting. He had a torrid time being pulled all over the place and his timing, defending, anticipation of passes, positioning etc... has gone to hell. Add to that the lack of cover provided by Barry (who was very poor) and Kone, then the poor lad was left out to dry too often. He’s been brilliant for us but he needs to have a breather; luckily it sounds like Bainsey is ready to come back.

3) McCarthy, despite what the doubters think, is key to our game. He mops up almost everything that comes close to him. Yes, he doesn’t offer too much going forward but that’s Barry’s job. Macca is there to offer cover to the defence, not to be storming up the pitch.

4) The Gibson substitution was totally unnecessary. What the hell was Martinez thinking? If Gibbo doesn’t come on, the ref ends the game and we go on to win an ill-deserved victory! It’s this game management, or lack of, which is costing us points.

5) I think we were poor all game tbh and we never really dominated the elements (point 1) so, despite being disappointed with the performance, the result was a bit flattering IMO. Bournemouth over the 98 minutes were the better, and hungrier, team.

John Keating
334 Posted 30/11/2015 at 16:14:04
I still find it incredible there are still posters blaming supporters for Saturday’s result.

The fact that the players' and manager's incompetence allowed Bournemouth back into a game that should have been out of sight seems to have passed them by.

Ray Roche
335 Posted 30/11/2015 at 16:22:43
Colin, I watched the game live, in the first half we were much the better side and should have added more goals to reflect our superiority.

What stuffed us was the team sitting back and allowing Bournemouth the opportunity to play. I watched them hammer Newcastle recently and despite losing 0-1, they were a far better side than the Skunks.

They had their 3rd-choice keeper on in the second half and he had virtually nothing to do until the 95th minute. Had we replicated our first half performance in the second half, we’d have won by four or five goals but the instruction to sit back has come from one place only, and that is that master tactician, Martinez.

Galloway has been left high and dry in most of the games he’s played and the sooner that situation is recognised and managed he will continue to struggle.

Colin Glassar
336 Posted 30/11/2015 at 16:38:27
Sitting deep should’ve been my 6th point Ray. That was a huge mistake by Martinez.

Yet, I thought we looked relatively comfortable until Smith scored that goal (2 goals in 99 games!!) and then Stanislas, who’s never scored a Premier League goal, knocks in two for Christ’s sake. Typical Everton letting everyone break their duck.

Don’t you think our long-ball game was wrong due to the windy conditions, Ray? So many passes went astray and we never changed.

Gavin Johnson
337 Posted 30/11/2015 at 16:40:07

I didn’t know you were such a big Tim Howard devotee. Could it be you’re using this point to serve a purpose?! This being your habit of keyboard posturing where you have to come on the forum and be the expert and prove you are right. Yes... that sounds about right.

No, Jay. I said very clearly I hadn’t read the interview. It was another member who said he was blaming fans. I was just replying to them by saying it was the kind of thing Howard would say.

But thanks for jumping on me... I’m flattered. ;)

Ray Roche
339 Posted 30/11/2015 at 16:49:35
Colin, anyone who has ever played the game at any level knows that you keep the ball on the floor in high winds, even the commentators on the (excellent) stream I was watching were repeating it over and over again just how difficult things were.

Unfortunately Martinez has suffered a dose of KITAP2 when, if he had the bottle and nous, he’d have gone at Bournemouth straight from the second half whistle and put the game beyond them. We know from the WBA game that 2-0 is not the end of things. What happened to Sin Miedo?
Colin Glassar
340 Posted 30/11/2015 at 17:00:02
Strange decisions Ray. The commentators kept on mentioning the "breeze". Breeze? It looked more like a hurricane to me and yet Howard and Co kept on launching it upfield to no one in particular.

ps: I think Bournemouth should be fined for allowing so much rubbish to be floating around and, for not controlling our scallies in an efficient manner with their reenactment of the D-Day landings.

Jay Wood
341 Posted 30/11/2015 at 17:42:51
Gavin @ 337

To address your post: Whether I am "a big Tim Howard devotee" or not is neither here nor there. And of course I’m "using this point to serve a purpose." Namely, to show up the injustice and hypocrisy of your post @ 312, all the more so given your twice repeated reference to ’confirmation bias’ on posters’ attitudes towards RM in this very thread.

This is not "keyboard posturing" on my part. It is not me "having to come on the forum and be the expert and prove (I am) right." This is me defending one of our players, falsely maligned by YOU who hadn’t even to take the trouble to confirm that TH had indeed criticized the fans. A simple Google search would have informed you, he clearly did not.

I could have respected you more if you had acknowledged (horrors of horrors!) YOU. WERE. WRONG. You were far too premature in allowing your own prejudice and preconception to influence your own ’confirmation bias,’ that this was the kind of thing TH would say.

As I said earlier, your posts on this point smack of gross hypocrisy given all your posts in this thread and you clearly do not have the humility to acknowledge that, such is your own need to be ... ’right.’

Sam Hoare
343 Posted 30/11/2015 at 18:03:57
I have a bad feeling about tomorrow night. Don't think we have the guts to turn them over on another wet and windy night....
Colin Glassar
344 Posted 30/11/2015 at 18:12:02
We aren’t Arsenal, Sam. No southern softies in our team.
Graham Mockford
346 Posted 30/11/2015 at 18:25:47
Gavin (#342),

For me, you are wrong in this instance. I often disagree with Jay and he can be robust in his opinion but it seems to me you resort to personalising the argument as opposed to discussing the issues raised.

I also read the articles and the headlines are a disgraceful misrepresentation of what Tim Howard actually said. You reached an opinion because, as you say yourself "It sounds like something he would say". You then use this false premise to claim he ’has problems accepting responsibility’.

Ray Said
347 Posted 30/11/2015 at 18:26:51
Regarding the fans, a tiny number of whom ran on the pitch, surely the distinction is that they are entitled to get excited and that may lead to some poor decisions on their part whilst the players are PROFESSIONALS who earn their living at this business and are not entitled to get so excited that they then make poor decisions that cost us the game?
Gavin Johnson
355 Posted 01/12/2015 at 00:45:42
Graham (#346),

Going back to the subject of Howard. Yes, I’ve definitely got some confirmation bias going on with our Tim. I didn’t read the full story because I didn’t want to. I’ve read several interviews with him since his form was put into question, and the guy infuriates me.

So I can well imagine him blaming the fans, because he hasn’t seemed to have shouldered any responsibility for people calling on his form when asked about it. I’m quite happy to own my confirmation bias on this occasion.

Just because I point other people out when they’re arguing against Martinez, doesn’t mean I haven’t got them (we all have them) so I wouldn’t dispute this. I don’t rate Howard as a GK and hope Robles puts in a sterling performance in the cup, so it makes the questions about Howard’s place in the team even louder.

I’m guessing you won’t agree with that comment, Graham, because you rate Howard and always jump in at his defence, but hey ho! TW would be a dull place if we all agreed on everything.

Graham Mockford
356 Posted 01/12/2015 at 08:38:49

Fair enough, at least you see that in this instance what you assumed was not the case.

On the actual subject of Tim Howard, I suspect your view of my opinion is incorrect. There is a common theme on here that you are either pro or anti things and these are the the only two available positions.

I find a lot of the hysterical feeding frenzy every time any goal goes in a bit tiresome; however, that does not mean I believe players are immune to criticism.

In Tim Howard’s case, I thought last season was the worse I’d seen in all his time at Everton, although he improved at the back end of the season. I defended him for the Ings goal because it was rank bad defending but against Arsenal I didn’t defend him because I thought he was at fault and said so.

I personally agree with the manager’s stance on persevering with him. Mainly because I am far from convinced based on what I’ve seen that Robles is the answer. He will need replacing by the latest at the end of next season and a new keeper becomes an increasingly important target. If you offered me Butland, I would snap your hand off even at £15m.

Paul Cherrington
357 Posted 01/12/2015 at 10:27:18
This result still hurts today – just hope it doesn’t have a knock-on effect, like drawing at Leicester early last season. Remember, according to RM, the entire dismal last season could be blamed on drawing that game when we should have won it.

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