Reports: Everton reject £20m bid for Stones

I'm genuinely gutted about this...

No coincidence the Stones-Coleman interview yesterday (saying they're both happy to stay at Everton and win things) and Roberto's no nonsense answer today re Macca. The plan is to build something special, not improve other teams' squads.

I am now a bit worried he is going to be sold.

We can't sell for less than 㿊M I say. Ferdinand was that price over ten years ago.

We need to keep our best players, be it McCarthy or Stones. We can't just keep investing, because it will halt our progress. If we had a poor squad, like when we sold Rooney, that would be different, but we don't. If we sell a big player, we will be hard pressed to replace them with quality, and will end up going with the slippery quantity route. We can improve our team with the CB and creative midfielder, and then bring in a striker on loan. If we did that, there is no reason we couldnt push for a top 6 finish and go for a cup. Our first eleven is plenty good enough, we just need to find confidence and the right tactics again. A more promising pre-season will begin that process.

Also, we need a senior CB. Talk of us going into the season with only 2 senior CBs is madness. Galloway and Browning are not ready, and may never be good enough. They may well be playing in lower leagues in the future. There is no way that we can risk them 1) playing well enough 2) the consequences on their development when they don't play well. Chambers was a perfect example of that last season - he lost all confidence because he was playing when he shouldn't have been. I doubt we will see him back in the Arsenal first eleven in the league for at least a year now.

I'm happy we are not paying 8mil for Evans, but I'd take him for 4 rising to 6, because we need another option (or on a free next year). If not, let's look at the Celtic guy and Vlaar. We need to find someone willing to fight for a place and maybe sit on the bench. Going for a player failing to get games at a bigger club, or a younger player in a lesser league/lower league who has been playing consistently well, makes the most sense.

We need to keep McCarthy and Stones and bring in a CB and a creative mid before the season starts. If we do that, I think we will have plenty of reasons to feel optimistic.

Stones is a down to earth Northern lad who I can't see having his head turned and unless he demands a move I wouldn't even sell him for 㿞m!

Shaw went for more when he wasn't capped yet and this might be looking through blue glasses but I think Stones is better/has more potential than Shaw. Apart from that, I just don't want to lose the lad.

I can't imagine what sort of price might be acceptable. He's almost too precious?

But even if that bid comes in for him,it should still be rejected. We need to be building the team around him Barkley McCarthy Coleman and Lukaku, not selling them off for profit.

Fuck you Chelsea!!! Take your pocket change and shove it up your arse! In fact I don't give a rats arse for your money no matter how much you want to throw at us!

Everton are a club that when we love a player that relationship is worth more than anything.. And we love Stones!

I think we all know that if he keeps progressing and we do not then this sort of transfer will happen in the not too distant future.

Heard Stonesy giving a interview after the bid came in and he said he loves it at the club and wants to concentrate on cementing his place in the starting 11 and learning off Jags. And he loves it at this great club. Good stuff, Stonesy!

But Chelsea have some bargaining chip for the deal, the Lukaku money still owed plus the ability to add a string of talented youngsters as part of it, either permanently or on loan.

Doesn't mean that I don't rate Stones but that would be some offer. Can't see them going that high anyway so probably a moot point.

If Stones leaves for 㿆 million we could do one of two thing's..

Offer Stoke 㾻 million for Ryan Shawcross or....

Move for Johnny Evans and offer QPR 㾻 million for Charlie Austin.

Would like him to stay, but just hope his head isn't turned and he goes on the final day when there's no time for a replacement and the money disappears into the mysterious Black Hole.

There is something about having probably the best young English defender in a generation in our ranks that gives me huge pride.

To put this into perspective I was pushing to let Baines go 2 years ago and even feel we could cash in on McCarthy this year. This one feels personal.

The club should come out with a strongly worded statement and say the player isn't for sale no matter what the bid, end of story.

However, if Chelsea start offering silly money (e.g.㿊-35m+) then we may need to get realistic...just saying, no player is unsellable and he's still far from the finished article.

I'd accept a 㿊m bid plus they loan him back to us for another season and pay his wages.

We need to build around him, future Captain, leader & I believe... Winner!

Taking into consideration the amount Barnsley get for the sell on (don’t know how much) we might be left with 㿀M to mess around with. John is worth far far more than that.

Remember who is in charge, remember Fellaini, Lescott, Rooney, Arteta. We will sell if the money is right. Sad but true.

Anyway.... Where is this centre midfield schemer that El Bob thought you could only get abroad? Any news on that front?

This is the problem with having money but losing a top player - we can't go out and buy top players, because they play for teams better than us in the main. This is exactly what Spurs and Liverpool experienced.

The GOT thread is decent on the topic.. very interesting post from a Barnsley fan about when they sold up.

Geez.. we go through this over one player every few years.. Southampton have this like twice a season.. how are they not suicidal?

No one can ever be 100% sure of any but this lad is nailed on to be one of the best defenders in the world. In the world of stupid sales this, would blow the Keown and Matterazi sales out the water. Let's see if we have learnt.

If the other lot got £50 mill for Sterling, whose done bugger all except in fleeting cameos, then we should at least look at the future England Captain as at least as valuable.

But if he wants to stay at EFC then I hope we never sell him. We're getting a good group of young lads together, with hopefully more to come in.

I hope he does a Brian Labone and becomes the club captain and England international.

"Where's the Stones money, Bill?"

Terry would be an excellent person from whom he could learn to be a complete player (as a player not a human being) as I do not think he will get the training at Everton. Still a sale of Stones and a loan back for this season would be a great bit of business for the right price. Everton is going to lose Stones either this year, next year, or the one after that so why not use it to the club's advantage?

If the sale did occur with a loan back, I would still get Cameron. Without a loan back, then I would switch my sights from Cameron to Shawcross, whom I rate very highly, and go with our young players behind Jags and Shawcross.

If we consider ourselves a serious football club, we will not sell Coleman, McCarthy, Stones or Barkley. We need to add experienced quality to these lads and let them grow into a proper force. That is the only way we will be a top club again.

Jay Harris speaks the truth - this is a statement of intent.

No thank you Chelsea. Crawl back underneath your bazillion dollar dwelling / rock from which you came!

Don't want him to go but he has to be worth at least 1.5 times what Man Utd paid for Rio Ferdinand in today's money.

This is Everton FC and the level we are now at, it's simple fact. It's how we spend the money; we need two proven Premier League players with this cash.

We hold all the aces and accepting a bid below £40m would be criminal in my opinion. He is worth £25m on merit. Factor in the home grown element, the character of the lad, the very likely scenario that he will continue improving for the next 7-8 years, the lack of quality options available in that position... We should definitely be talking about £50m.

In other words - go fuck yourselves ya cheeky bastards!

Every player has their price - say £50M not negotiable; else we'll have another Rooney or Lescott saga.

BUT....what Chelsea don’t want to do is let him to go to either of the Manchester clubs anytime soon. This will end up in a bidding war sooner or later, and 㿀m, if a bid even happened, is nowhere near what Stones will go for.

People on the forum will say every player has their price but how do you keep the hope that one day your club will become one of the best. How can Sky claim the Premier League is the best league in the world when only five teams will compete for the top four places?

Sadly year after year the top clubs will cream the best players from smaller clubs. The problem is expectation and year after year the less you have. It could be worse... we could support Aston villa!

Then, as usual, the money disappears down the black hole that is Everton's boardroom.

You just never know how young players will develop which makes the future value of a player impossible to predict.

He isn't an Everton fan any more than he was a Barnsley fan. If he stays, I'll be delighted; he's got enormous potential but, got to be realistic, they need to replace Terry and a home-grown replacement is ideal.

But now, every tabloid and Sky announce that Chelsea has made a (insulting) bid for John Stones, and the reaction is instantly, "Well, that’s it. He’s on his way."

Injuries can could always happen but Stones, like Rooney, is as near to a certainty that he will go to great things as its possible to make these days, if he stays injury-free. Because of where and how he plays, there is less stress on his body than in other positions.

I'm showing my age but I think he's the classiest young player, albeit nowhere near the finished article, at CB I've seen since Colin Todd. Worth every penny of 㿞m on current prices and sometime in the next few years he will go for around that.

I get where you're coming from, but Rodwell had shown only glimpses and was bought by Man City almost entirely on potential.

Stones hit the ground running in a position where experience counts for a lot. He is maturing and improving almost game to game, and his attitude leads me to believe that he will continue to improve.

He has had the odd dodgy game, Anfield last season for example, but his ability to dust himself off, learn from mistakes and come out stronger the next game speaks volumes about his character.

He is our best player in my opinion, and I believe we would curse ourselves for letting him go below 㿞m.

Great young CBs are at a premium. For a club like Chelsea to sign a homegrown quality CB would give them more scope to bring in quality attacking players from abroad. It also gives them continuity of English CBs -- from Terry/Cahill to Cahill/Stones.

㿀m is an absolute insult to be honest.

If Stones left for them this season; he'll play the odd match. Certainly in the cup games, maybe get a substitute appearance in the CL - all at right back of course.

Then John Terry retires next summer. So that means Stones will slide in and immediately become Cahill's partner, yes? No. Jose will declare him not ready for the weekly grind, and Chelsea will be back in the market for a "proven" central defender who has CL experience.

Then John finds is playing time is less, and less, and less. Just like all of the talented Chelsea youth players who were told that they will always be considered for first team positions when they are ready. But all they see is one transfer after another come in and take away their chances. Same thing happening at Man City.

Whether that would be paid in one go, let alone offered remains to be seen, but that's the marker we should put down. I'd actually be gutted if he was sold for that much... He's the one player we can ill-afford to lose.

Look at what they're doing to Cuadrado now and Saleh (?)... excellent young players who they can't fit into the team, even Oscar's future is in doubt.
If I was a young player like Stones, I wouldn't touch a team like Man City or Chelsea with a barge pole. They aren't interested in developing players, they just want to fulfill their 'homegrown' quota.

I'm also certain their southern hacks like Beasley, Samuels, Wallace and Jason Burt will also be writing page after page on why John Stones should become a Chelsea player. Be prepared for the media onslaught, people. This is just the beginning.

All this messing about will get us a few extra mill to probably 㿉 mill but he is gone.

I think you'll find there is a lot of smoke without fire. Every single day. In every single newspaper. On almost every single transfer story. We've already sold Baines, Coleman, McCarthy, Mirallas to Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Tottenham etc (Shuffle around in any combination you want; it's nearly always but always, bullshit.)

"If I was advising John Stones I'd tell him to stay at Everton rather than move to Chelsea.

"He's a good young player and has a bright future, but look at the Chelsea defence - John Terry is going to play another season, Gary Cahill will mostly likely play alongside him and Branislav Ivanovic is a monster at right-back and you're not going to get him out of the side.

"Stones needs to be playing regularly and at Everton he'll get that. England also need him to be playing as often as possible and Everton are a good, big club with a good manager. They may have had a disappointing campaign last season but they'll do better this year.

"We had a look at him when I was at Spurs but we didn't go for him as we had Kyle Walker, but if I could offer any advice to him I'd tell him to stay put and keep on learning."

For what it's worth, the Echo says nobody at the club is interested in selling John Stones. Calls the 㿀 million bid insulting. But then they leave it with the old "But Liverpool didn't want to sell Sterling, and Villa didn't want to sell Delph, but he looks to finally be going to Man City... nine times out of ten, if Chelsea identify a target they usually get it."

Thanks for the support, you Echo Assholes!!

Bear in mind that last year he signed a new 5-year contract with Everton. Bear in mind too that the club may eventually "agree" to sell him, for the "right price" -- but he has to agree personal terms too, or there is no deal.

Given his comments earlier to day in Singapore, I think Stones is happy at Everton, sees his prospects of further development as being better here than elsewhere, and is mature enough to bide his time whilst getting more and more Premier League experience under his belt.

I think, irrespective of what Jose wants, or Bill wants, there will be no sale in this window because Stones doesn't want it.

I may be wrong bit, didn't he sack his agent last year because the agent was agitating for a move and Stones didn't want to go?

It seems to me that Stones is a man who is comfortable in charge of his own destiny and, for now, that destiny is with Everton.

Hold out for 㿊 million or broker a deal involving Kurt Zouma or Gary Cahill coming to us. I have a feeling Mourinho doesn't rate Cahill that highly!

This isn't like Lescott at all, he was a player at his peak. Stones is at the start of his career and is only going to get better and hence worth more money. It's a comparable situation to say Rooney except for one major difference, we had to sell him to keep the club afloat. We don't have to sell Stones because we've just got an extra 㿊 million in TV revenue. That puts us in a very strong bargaining position. Frankly you would have to be a moron to sell him now for the money being talked about, especially as it looks like Barnsley may get 15-20% of the fee.

In my opinion, in a couple of years it will be clubs like Barcelona/Real Madrid who will be in for this lad because he is going to be a top footballer and he is going to be worth a lot more than 㿊 million. Mourinho knows this which is why he is trying to get him now.

We should've cashed in on Ross at the end of last season when his media stock was sky high because I don't think he will ever be worth that much again.

Stones is going to get better; another good season, forcing his way into the England team and he's worth 㿞m. You have to back your judgement in these scenarios but I think him progressing to be the best centre half in the country is a certainty. 㿊m will seem very cheap in two years time.

Double it, then add another 㾶M, then we 'may' consider talking. Other then that, fuck off!

Stones is going to be one of the greatest CBs in the world. Longer we keep him, the more we will eventually get for him.

If Chelsea bought him for 㿀, 30, even 40 million, then you can be sure when they eventually cash in on him to Bayern, PSG, Real or Barça then they will make a tidy profit on that amount.

That's how good this kid is.

But right now, there seems to be a feeling of 'something special' around the Everton team at the moment, togetherness, a unity. The way Deulofeu returned, the way he spoke, have you seen his Twitter? He is loving being home. It seems to of rubbed off on the squad.

Personally, I think Stones himself will refuse the move. He is a level-headed young man.

Seriously though, as a club we have strong relations with Chelsea and Man Utd and we all know we will sell and we will get over it and in time we will hail a new star.

Come on guys, we are Everton fans and we know the score.

I haven't written him off yet. Nobody played particularly well last season, and he carried a huge weight of expectation. I think he needs to have less of a role and be allowed to build his confidence up. Less of the 'best young player in Europe' rubbish.

I think Stones will stay. He has his head screwed on and will want to play, not sit on the bench. Plus, you never know, he may actually love our club and have zero interest playing elsewhere.

See, now that's the sort of move I can actually see materialising and the sort of rhetoric I can imagine the club peddling to make it seem like we came out of it all with a nice sherbet fizz rather than a big fat shit on a stick. What would be the point of loaning him back? Watching him progress as a player for a further year, all the while knowing it's for another clubs long term benefit and having to listen to Roberto eulogising about how it's a privilege for everyone at Everton to continue to work with such an extraordinary young character/future Flash Gordon style saviour of the universe for a few months more? It would just be rubbing salt in the wounds.

I would be gutted to see him go and, if he did, I wouldn't be able to console myself with the thought that we might be able to use the funds to improve the squad in areas where we're short. Firstly, I imagine a large proportion of the fee would basically amount to the outstanding Lukaku payments being written off, and then (due to our shortage of centre backs as is) Stones himself would definitely need replacing straight away. So what would be left after that, presuming the manager would even be given all of the funds raised in the first place?

If, for some strange reason, the lad himself wants to go to Chelsea, it would be madness to sell him for less than 㿞m at the very least. An England centre-half for circa ٣m per year is more than good economics for the Stamford Bridge outfit but what would that do for Everton FC? A Johnny Evans type of player every couple of years who may or not play well.

The club and the manager seem to be serious about building a good team, the only way to do that is to keep your top young talent.

We'd be crazy to sell him.

He has his feet on the ground and may want to stay and play for us but once the bidding has started the shitload of gullible smoke tends to drift up.

I agree that he looks a very safe bet to increase in value playing for Everton but look what happened to Ross last season!
He looks to have his head screwed on better than Barkley and I'm pretty sure he won't be going anywhere this season.

I also think that Ross will have a much better season, because the coaching staff will surely have been looking at ways that he can be used better, he's not lost that natural ability to score outstanding goals.

Although Martinez came in for a lot of criticism on here last season, our players seem loyal to him and the pros within the game rate him highly every time they're asked.

So no, we'd be barmy to sell Stones for less than 㿔m, but money has no value to the owners of Chelsea and Man City!

The risk for Chelsea is that he is young and he could yet be a Rodwell so, we lose massive potential and they take a risk, a risk which I see as miniscule given Stone's incredible game. Stones takes a big risk of course because Chelsea have a full hand of brilliant centre backs so initially at least he would not play all games.

The sad conclusion? We'll sell and we have to sell because we need the money to pay off debt and paying off debt is good for the club. My guess is that, everything into consideration, the price will be 㿊M and bye JS. Into a black hole? Unsubstantiated nonsense, I'm afraid

In fact there has been so much talk in the press recently about our squad and the offers that we are receiving or not.

It seems that our players are in demand - All has gone quiet on the Baines to United since they signed that fellow from S'ton and then we had links to this and that for Cool hand Luke - that has now died a death after he signed a new contract.

Then ManU were supposed to be signing Coleman - hasn't happened yet and all and sundry would like Stones. And that is only the defence, pity really that there is no apparent interested in our newly shorn keeper!.

Moving into midfield we have various clubs expressing an interest in Mirallas. It would be a pity to see him go but I sincerely hope he has his head pointing in the right direction this season.

McCarthy , what a gem, and I can see why his name is being bandied about but I think he is Roberto's mainstay and I'm a little surprised that he has not managed a better contract.

Barkley - what can you say about this enigma - is he worth £5m or £50m who knows? In fact I'm not sure he himself knows his worth - but time is running out for him to prove his worth.

I am sure that Naismith would command a decent price as would McGeady both have been linked to others recently but Roberto is keen to hang on, at least for the foreseeable future and until he has suitable replacements.

I have now reached the forward line and fuck me, what do we have here, a big brute by the name of Lukaku who on his day is unplayable and for the rest of the year is so frustrating that whatever his agent has to say, we would still struggle to recoup our £28m even on a good day.

So to summarise, Everton has a wealthy of talent - I have not mentioned the others that make up the squad only the ones that are being seen as targets - but with all the talent and whatever they are individually or collectively worth they are worth sod all unless the can deliver the goods. There is a new Season on the horizon that is going to give them a brilliant opportunity to prove once and for all what they are worth and whether they are worth retaining or getting rid.

Make the most of it boyos!!

Of course Stones is still maturing so it may be a risk for any club to pay a big fee and Rodwell is an example of failing to reach the next level when he went to City. We all hope that nothing happens as at this stage it would be a mini disaster for the Blues.

I'd like to see the PL bring in all sorts of methods to make the league fairer and national side stronger. Although seems counter-intuitive, dropping the home grown rule may be one.

Anyway interesting to see what happens here. We don't "need" the money unless we are serious about a new or redeveloped stadium.

Even if Chelsea pay 㿞m, any other business we do will see the prices go up due to our "windfall". Also, with our board and Blue Bill at the helm, we’ll never see the lion’s share of that money go on transfers.

So if this was to happen, if I was Roberto I’d go for a "Stones out, 3 Chelsea players in" type deal.

I think if Everton sell now, whilst the kid still has 4 years left on his contract, would be crazy. And this action would tell us that we are finished, with regards to a football club, that exists to win cups, anyway.

That is unless Stones comes out publicly and says he wants to leave. If this happens we have got to be looking at, AT LEAST £35 MILLION.

Hope he stays. If he does go, I'd want Zouma or Loftus-Cheek as makeweights and big cash.

As for Stones, McCarthy, Coleman, Lukaku , Baines , Barkley, Garbutt , Mirallas and there will be more.. I think this Is fantastic news! Our manager has always said it is a compliment when so many of our players are being talked about and linked with moves away. I for one would rather we have clubs interested in our players than not.

There seems to be a new attitude, an air of confidence from both players and manager going into this new campaign, like they have something to prove and I firmly believe that no player will leave us this window unless the manager wants it like that.

Of course it is a fact if we are offered complete silly money for any player that could well change things, and Martinez will be told to toe the line. The only player that I think could push for a move is Mirallas... Interesting to hear Martinez speaking of McCarthy rumours today and who may be behind them.

[Just thinking out loud.]

From the player's own point of view, he is still learning his trade. He has a better opportunity to do that as a regular at our club than at the likes of Chelsea where he will find himself being rotated, playing in the League Cup, dead rubber European matches and waiting for Terry or Cahill to become crocked. Chelsea's derisory and insulting bid of 㿀m bid indicates that he will not walk into their team.

The list of young English players whose development has been stifled after moving to one of the top four is endless. I guess John Stones is sufficiently grounded to recognise this and that he will be more than happy to fulfil his potential and in the process become an Everton and England legend.

I would accept a season back in the top 6 beating the RS at least once and getting to the final of a cup. Progress...

"Chelsea are confident that they will be able to secure John Stones by the start of the season despite Everton's rejection of an opening 㿀m bid with a new bid expected in the coming days – but they may have to break the British record for a defender to get their man."

"Although Stones has professed he is happy at Everton, there is a feeling that he would relish a move to Chelsea to work with Mourinho.."

"There is a sense of bemusement at Chelsea at the apparent angst expressed by Everton, who have suggested that the timing of the bid has been unhelpful, given that it is mid-way through the transfer window with a full three weeks before the season starts."

"Everton have indicated that they are not interested in doing business but if Stones were to ask for a move their position is likely to change and they would look to secure the best possible value they could for the player."

I'm sorry, but this isn't an article by "Rob Draper" of the Daily Mail. This is most obvious attempt to circumvent Roberto Martinez that I've seen since Mark Hughes pulled this crap on us with Lescott. This makes me think that we aren't listening to them anymore, so they're leaking this for Stones to see; "Hey John, put in a transfer request and you can be a Chelsea player. Come on, we know you relish it"

Oh and Chelsea is bemused by our complaining of the timing of all of this? Fucking shameless propaganda!

㿣m it is for Chelsea and likely to reach 𧴜m by the time the season kicks off.

In all seriousness, they are a bunch of arrogant twats and they can fuck right off.

I'd rather sell him to Barca for 㿔m than Chelsea for 㿞m. And the lad could well get a move to Barca on a year or two -- quick, TALL, ball-playing CB who is quick to learn and adapt. Chelsea are just horrible and I'm sure Stonesy knows this as much as the rest of us, if not more having seen them up close and personal.

Just read the full article... That Draper fella comes across as a right tit. Twitter abuse anyone? Lol

That might be the funniest comment I've ever read on here. Proper belly laugh.

If they want him, they will get him. Does anyone think Stones won't want to play for Mourinho?

Some lads are on a different level and he probably is. The best players generally end up playing for the best clubs. It's the way it is.

We need to make sure we get 㿔 million or as close to it as possible.

Chelsea or Man City will come back with something around 㿊-35m and the club will accept it. Stones will feel like the club want him to leave and off he will go through no fault of his own, triple his wages overnight, and we can just imagine what might have been.

In the meantime, Roberto changes his tune and announces that, on second thoughts, he is interested in Jonny Evans and he signs for ٤m.

Money talks. And louder than ever.

Stonsey has created a confidence culture within this squad.... His rapid development has given belief within the squad that together they can achieve something special!!.... And only special players can create this belief!! This lad with his love for this great club and belief that something special could be happening!! (I hope so anyway!)

Thanks for quoting me but please tell me how Everton can keep Stones beyond the next two seasons? When has Everton as a Club (Sorry editors) ever paid someone the weekly wages the kid will get at Chelsea? How much is Sterling making per week? Simply, if you are telling me that Everton are going to start paying weekly wages to 11 players of 㿼k to 𧶲k, then okay, we will keep Stones and every player we develop.

You and I both know that is not true. I was suggesting to keep him another year on loan to help this team progress which would allow the younger kids to get blooded. Bringing in Cameron would give us an international and EPL level starter for what is by all accounts a good club, not a Wigan (sorry again editors for the reference to Wigan).

Please name one truly highly valued excellent player we have kept thus far for a lengthy period of his career besides Tim Howard (sorry couldn't resist for the Howard haters).

Simple fact is: Everton are a selling club and always will be. Wouldn't it be better to acknowledge this fact and use it to the club's advantage instead of getting taken by "surprise" that a player might want to leave?

To achieve the goal of that idea, it needs him and them to mould together a squad of youth and experience and to play together over a development period that culminates in a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.

I think all the young players who have signed 5-year contracts recently have bought into this and know that to achieve it they had to commit their future to Everton FC until the plan reaches fruition. That is why I don't think we will see any of the current crop of players, with the possible exception of Mirallas, asking for a transfer.

This season, I think we will see a very different season for Everton to that which we experienced last time round. I honestly believe we will be knocking very hard on the door of the top four and, within two years, will break into that group, and stay there.

It is where we belong, historically and traditionally and to achieve it we need players of the very best calibre in our squad.

So please, do not ever say any player is "too good for us". They are not. NSNO.

When you say 'thus far' do you mean 'ever', as in thus far in the club's history, or are you just referring to in recent years?

If the latter: Leighton Baines.

As an Evertonian of 50+ years, I have seen some of our greatest players. In John Stones I see a young man who is a leader of men and the future Captain of England. Harold is right - he is not hard enough yet but it won't be too long in coming. Give him another year and he will be.

l for one have put last season behind me. If I am going to look back, it will be to the Emirates the season before last when we played Arsenal off the park and a young wipper snapper had the effrontery to score a late and well deserved equaliser.

If we want to see more performances like that this season, we must keep hold of John Stones. If we sell him, it will knock the stuffing out of those young lads.

Strange as it may seem, even though I am getting a bit long in the tooth, I still don't subscribe to the theory that money can buy you anything and that everyone has a price.

No top, top player is likely to stay indefinitely at a club that is not in Europe or winning trophies but for the moment we have the cards as he is on a long term contract.

I'm afraid you are living in the past. Bobby Thomas, like yourself is a good Evertonian, but is a realistic one.

We were one of the top clubs and always will be the best and top club for me, but for anyone in the rest of the country we are just an also-ran club.

That's the way it is unfortunately, and will be for the foreseeable future; if the likes of John Stones wants to leave Everton and another club are determined to sign him, then he will move. I don't like any more than the next Evertonian, but that's the way things are.

I'm still hoping, like you and most Evertonians, that Stones stays for at least another year, but you can't blame him if he moves... financially it makes sense for his whole future.

By the way, I hope people realise that Delboy has had very little competitive football this year and is suffering more than most in the struggle to get fit for the start of the season. He actually looked quite ill after he struck his penalty home versus Stoke.

We should avoid selling at any price, and they won't pay over 㿊M for a guy who will probably be back-up for Terry & Cahill.

We now face an anxious wait to see if Chelsea will offer the magic figure that BK has in mind somewhere and if they do then when. I'm pretty sure it will take well over £30m but the sad truth in modern football is that every player has a price despite the soundbites.

What are these "mountains of complicated instructions" Ross is apparently getting that are stunting his footballing growth? Is he being told to hold onto the ball too long, run up bling alleys, blast shots against opponents' shins and shirk 50-50 tackles?

Could be worse I guess... just look at Villa!!!!

This is not a Rooney scenario. We do not have to balance the books. In a couple of seasons time he'll be an England regular and worth double what he is now.

He comes across as a decent level-headed lad. He wants to cement his place in our first team and become an England regular. He'll know that won't happen at Chelsea.

Selling him and getting him back on loan makes no sense at all. You only do that if you're desperate for cash now. Why do it when he is on a long contract and we'll be worth a lot more with another season under his belt? (Barring injury)

It looks like the board are going to repay some more debt this pre-season rather than give all of the Sky money to Roberto and again this has to happen for us to progress long-term provided that we don't suffer on the pitch.

Unlike some above, I think Browning may be ready. Yes, he makes errors... but so does Stones. Stones is a smashing player and potentially great but I don't see his departure as one we can't cope with. I heard from a decent source a few weeks ago that he would be the one to be sold with Shawcross to replace him. Not as pretty to watch but, if this happened, I don't think our defence would be weaker -- if anything, I think it would be a tougher unit.

In our position, I don't think we can afford to keep him provided we get silly money offered. 㿀M is derisory but 㿏M or more and deal done -- he could get a bad injury or tail off like Ross/Jack and we can't afford that. If Man Utd and Man City enter into a bidding war, we could do very well out of this.

But as a fan I don't want him to go!!!!

Tough one for Stones. He'll learn what he needs to learn from Mourinho and Terry on more money. He'll also be asking himself how many games he'll get for the next 18 months and whether Chelsea will buy him, loan him and spit him out.

I agree with Harold; right now he's not tough enough for Chelsea. They may feel they can toughen him and get him cheaper now.

If he wants to go there, he'll go. 㿏M at least and keep it separate from the Lukaku deal.

But we all know that it's more than likely him going, and either a loan player or a free will replace him, closely followed by McCarthy, Mirallas, Lukaku and most probably Coleman.

I said at the end of last season, I fear for this year. The fact that Kenwright just sat back and did fuck all when that shite was getting put out week-in & week-out. The excuses of another stadium dream collapsing, the lack of transfer activity. Billy Boy knows that sadly the support will always be there at our club, no matter what crap he serves up. You only have to look at some of the comments on here.

Ask yourself why is the shite across the park not only building the squad with quality but also their stadium. Because no matter how much you loath them they wouldn't put up with half the Shite we do.

We need to keep Stones at any cost, and the youth behind him, as they are the future for the club. When this wedge of money from Sky finally goes, we will be unable to buy anything of quality, look at us now? There has never been so much money and we are still getting loans or frees as our major signings.

Keep the likes of Stones who's cost us buttons and let's build around them. But, as I said earlier, with this board, optimism no longer exists.

I don't think Chelsea will go higher than 㿊M (and that will be in drips and drabs) so we need to tell them to sod off and come back in a few years with 㿨-70M in cash.

Then again the people who run EFC probably forgot.

I'd be well surprised if he goes this summer. He looks happy enough where he is.

You seem to think but not know a great many things in your post which, despite your apparent advancing years is almost child like in its naivety.

Stones is clearly cut out for well over 50 England caps & has all the potential qualities to be the mainstay in a team that plays Champions League football season in season out.

He's a kid who has arrived at Everton and established himself very swiftly. Perhaps most importantly as your talent is nothing without this, mentally he seems spot on. We are talking about a genuine top class prospect here. Genuine International and European class.

Can you tell me what that has to do with Everton FC in its current incarnation?

The only thing that has surprised me is the slowness of the bid. I mentally waved goodbye to him months ago, aware that if he stayed this would be his last season anyway.

This is the way its been since Keown was sold for the banks around '92 and is all part of the slow motion decline of Everton. It makes me angry. It makes me sad. These days though, when I go to Goodison and I look around, I just feel sad.

Stones however is one player and it all depends on who you get in. I will be honest I don't trust this fella with the dollar. He has shown little ability to do Moyes-esque deals of a Pienaar/Arteta/Stones nature. We are unable to do any real squad re-building due to the preposterous Lukaku deal. The other player to add value was McCarthy who cost 㾹M. The rest are largely duds.

As for your high hopes for this season Hugh... well you will be unsurprised to learn I don't share them. This is a squad in transition and I believe the fall out from the Moyes era began last season. The first season was the last hurrah for them. We have neither the depth or quality, especially in mid and up top to sustain a top 4 push.

The players also looked like they just weren't having Martinez for large parts of last season. We were frankly an ineffective soft touch with no threat. The squad remains largely the same. Its unbalanced and ageing in key areas, especially midfield.

I will cut him some slack as he had not managed in the league with Europe thrown in but I am personally unconvinced by him. A poor start will see a long season and I am fearful we may end up in a bit of bother.

And another thing: I'm glad we are not getting Evans. I work with a few Man Utd fans they said he is the worst player ever to play for them. Why don't we concentrate on players who are coming in or hopefully coming in?

I truly fail to see why Stones, whom, as you say " is clearly cut out for well over 50 England caps & has all the potential qualities to be the mainstay in a team that plays Champions League football season in season out", will be such a misfit at Everton?

I'm pretty certain that if we look back over the history of the club, we will find a number of players who have been regular internationals for their country (including England) and who have played with the club at the highest levels that were attainable for club football at those times.

Naive or not, that is the expectation of most followers of the GOT.

I do not recall your earlier comments making any mention of RM or of his capabilities.

Whatever Roberto's strengths or shortcoming may be, they have no bearing, in my opinion, on whether or not John Stones is "too good" for Everton.

I agree that we are a team in transition - that was one of the main points of my post.

The difference between us seems to be that I think we are about to move forward and you think we are about to move backwards.

Finally, I think you are confusing the definitions of "hope" and "belief".

You may not believe what I hope will happen, but, as an Evertonian you should certainly be hoping for what I believe.

It seems to me that football has turned into a pyramid. The rich clubs are at the top winning all the trophies and raking in the cash. Their fans basking in the reflected glory of constantly defeating weakened opposition. Everyone else is just plodding along without any real hope of achieving anything and just happy to stay in the league. There has to be more than this.

Villa have just lost Delph, they'll probably lose Benteke as well for a combined fee of just over 㿔M. What good is that money to them? Will it cover the cost of replacements? Will selling those players encourage other top players to sign for them? It will just get frittered away on a two or three average players and a year from now they'll be no further forward than they are now.

If Premier League clubs like Everton, Villa, Spurs, Southampton, and Liverpool continually allow there best players to gravitate to the rich clubs then they have no real future other than to make up the PL also-rans.

I think we have to make a stand here. If Stones goes, it signals that we will let anyone go if they wave a big enough cheque in our noses.

It's heartbreaking, as a football fan, to see what's going on with the knowledge that, save for an occasional cup run, the rest are never going to be able to bridge that gap in the foreseeable future. Even the RS, with all their commercial activities and even when all their corporate boxes are ready, will never be able to compete with the top 4 financially.

As much as it pains me to say it, in the interests of competition, the sooner the elite fuck off into a European super league the better. See how they like having to travel all over Europe every week and having no local rivalries. Maybe after a few years they will realise that they need local rivalries and there is never any atmosphere at grounds due to lack of away support, but I guess that's just fanciful thinking.

The CL has become so lucrative that the moneyed clubs make damn sure nobody else breaks through by buying up all the talent. An occasional club breaks through but never progresses much past the group stage. The rich clubs will just look at the bank balance and say fuck to the fans. Quite depressing the way football is being taken away from the fans really

Several times during the last year or so I've watched Mr Jones shove half a dozen sheets of paper in the lad's face before he entered the field of play. Once or twice I half expected Ross to pull out a notebook to check on his next move. The whole thing confuses him and definitely slows down his performance.

The goal was the lad being himself.

I could not agree more, even with Rooney. When he started with EFC as a lad, his first Premier League games were a breathe of fresh air to watch, and I still think his best England game was his debut. The little flicks and back heels were just great to watch.

I do think the problem with the English game is that managers take that freedom away, they keep pumping into players that they have to play for the team and keep working back, but if you got a player with that kind of quality, just let them go out and play their game.

I can't imagine any manager telling a player of Maradona's quality to work back or play a certain way, you just let them play their own way and you bring in players to do their dirty work for them. That's why the English game as gone downhill and why players of Messi quality will never be interested in playing in the Premier League.

Maybe the other 16 teams could carry out a secret, unofficial boycott of the two Manc teams and Chelsea (Arsenal? I'm not sure they should be included). Surely they could agree to an agreement that no one will sell any of their players to the above mentioned teams, especially their home grown players. Let them develop their own talent and not be some type of giant dredger scooping up everything in sight.

Do you not also think that some of the open criticism of the 'overly' adventurous side of his game ('giving the ball away in dangerous positions', 'putting team mates under pressure' etc) by the England manager and others; along with the audible groans that reverberate around Goodison whenever he tries something that fails to pay off, has played a part in curtailing Ross's natural game?

He's a risk taker and there's nothing inherently wrong with that, in my view. It's that element of surprise and willingness to take a chance that helped him stand out as a player in the first place. Now, as soon as he receives the ball, he seems to hesitate as though stuck in two minds. Towards the end of last season he seemed almost reluctant to try and do anything beyond playing the most basic, safe and simple ball. Almost as if he were trying to hide out in plain view on the pitch.

Whatever it is, we need him to come out of the shell that's seemingly weighing him down.

Pipe dream but I am truly sick of the Premier League. I find the Championship much more interesting.

Even the CL, in its present format, is boring as hell in the early stages and, I've heard, tv audiences have started to slip in Europe at least. For years the richer clubs threatened a breakaway league but it never happened so the compromise was the present CL format. I think that's why Sky are privately chuffed that BT won the bid and they saved themselves a few bob.

I did read your first post in full. It was largely fantasy.

You didnt mention Everton in its current incarnation. I did. For context. As the club as it is has little to no chance of retaining players of the calibre of Stones long term.

This has been case for a long, long time now and elite players, Stones could become one of those, certainly do not join us in their prime. If they are on the way to being these players, having jojned us as a stepping stone or come through the ranks, then their stay is generally brief before joining clubs who play at the sharp end of the game (Champions League) and where they can fufill their footballing ambitions.

This has been the case for almost 30 years. The club is in decline. The club, as I say, in its current incarnation, has very little chance of progressing and is the equivalent of a wooden tennis racket in the modern world of tennis. There is no chance of progress with this board. Our ground, for example, represents the scale of our their ambition and symbolises the decline of the football club.

You seem to think we will be retaining players of like Stones and will soon be breaking the top 4. Fantasy. Blinkered, blue specs fantasy. Delusional.

We have neither the budget and therefore squad depth or quality to get close to the top 4. The clubs horizons will be shrinking in the next few years as other boards continue to drive their clubs forward and develop them. We stand still being overtaken and our status ever diminishing. This boards do nothing policy places a glass ceiling on any smbition or expectation other than scrapping away to rise slightly above mid-table.

Finally I mentioned Martinez as you posted the baseless: "I do believe though that RM has sold an idea to his squad of players and they are 100% behind him and it."

Did you watch us last season?

"Everyone else is just plodding along without any real hope of achieving anything and just happy to stay in the league. There has to be more than this."

I certainly hope so. If The Board do want to keep John Stones, then that young man has a huge decision to make in the coming weeks.

His future is bright regardless but Is he the leader I believe he is? We could be about to find out.

One thing is for sure, if Hugh's belief that the restoration of the club's fortunes is about to take place it will have to start on the pitch not in the boardroom.

Stones was heading to Wigan and Martinez until a very late intervention from Moyes, I think you will find.

My apologies. I meant a young promising talent still developing as a player. However, using Baines as your example still makes my point. We retained a player who was valued highly by us but not so much by the rest of the league or world who was in the last four to five years of his career. He was wanted by one club only, headed at that time by the manager who brought him to Everton. Luke Shaw was the left back everyone wanted, not Baines.

Let us not forget that a sizable number of posters last season and even now want Baines dropped for Garbutt (who is still a work in progress) or moved to a different position altogether. This is exactly why he should have been sold.

I suggested Stones being loaned back as a way to keep him to help Everton for at least a year longer while helping his career too. I am concerned about him going to Chelsea because they already had a center back who was good with his feet, played the ball out, lost it too often and didn't defend corners and crosses well enough and they ran Luiz out of the squad, albeit for a profit.

We signed Howard when he was 28 - so hardly a developing talent! We bought Baines back from Wigan. He was an Everton youth player before he was released and bought back in his early 20's.. the same as Jags from Sheffield United. Both of whom have had suitors - Arsenal were sniffing around Jags a few seasons back, but, like Baines, he remained a loyal Everton stalwart.

Suitors and sniffing around versus serious offers are two different animals. Don't worry about it though, go ahead and stretch your examples to fit whatever point you seem to be trying to make. As for Baines and Jags, if you cut players and then buy them back, how is that actually retaining and developing them from the get go? Hmmmm. . . . never mind I doubt the answer will make sense.

Trying to stay on the article topic of a rejected offer for a center back, I suggeted an affordable option when the inevitable occurs. Sorry if identifying talent that we can afford that is of starting EPL and international levels seems to offend you regarding Cameron, who is versatile, which for a club with a limited budget, might seem to be a factor. I didn't suggest any 20-22 year olds because don't we already have two promising youngsters already? I guess I should compile a list of players we have no shot at getting if we cannot afford a 9-12 million pound offer for a centerback from another league. There are several decent defenders in the Bundesliga at mid table clubs but not ones we could afford. I would prefer Shawcross but he too would be on the list of people we cannot afford.

You will also see I post in defense of Mirallas a lot as he, along with Howard and Lukaku and Barry, seem to get the bulk of the criticism of why Everton haven't won the league.

Unlike Baines and Jags who had to develop before they were in the first team. Jags was originally courted to play centre midfield and Baines and to wait around 18th months before he dislodged Lescott as the favoured LB.

Surely you would agree that these are better examples than Tim Howard? Who's stayed because no other club would be stupid enough to want him.