Everton announce wider availability of team strips

I hope these guys continue to make steps forward like they are already showing. You couldn't even buy an Everton top in John Lennon Airport but you could buy a Man City one, embarrassing.

Utter, utter, utter idiotic short-sightedness.

Not sure what the position in the USA is, but nothing is more gutting than seeing loads of Premier League shirts on sale in Florida and nothing from the Blues.

These experts who are, by the way, fully supported in their endeavours by a number of our fellow supporters. Amazing that a few numbskull supporters may well have been right slagging off the Board for their pathetic efforts.

Buying sight unseen and paying shipping across the world? Better like the look, fabric, feel, quality, sizing when it arrives...

Sizing is also important... especially the fitting around the middle-aged belly... I can only breath in for so long.

The more shirts you can get hanging in stores around the world, the better – for obvious reasons. No matter your opinion on all things Everton and how it's run, this Kitbag deal was seriously flawed – a real head-shaker if ever there was one.

I'm in New Zealand and have ordered Everton stuff online before; but of course you also end up paying a small fortune in shipping fees.

On my occasional travels to the UK I've also bought from Everton Two in the Liverpool One shopping centre, and trust me it is a) cheaper, and b) at least you get to see the physical thing you want before you buy.

But, and it's a big 'but' (as big as Kim Kardashian's butt in fact) we have to sell in key foreign locations as well.

It's not about the sales, it's about raising the Club's profile.

This will make absolutely fuck all difference to anyone. Kitbag will sell a few shirts more but probably a very little profit, Everton will get zero because we are on a fixed fee.

John Rafferty is right, you build a brand by on field success, not by selling replica shirts. The 'Kitbag deal is shit' is one of those statements many people now accept as fact. The commercial truth is it is a decent no risk arrangement for the club.

It runs until 2019. Everton had the opportunity to exit last year upon Kitbag's request but they declined.

Why do you think Kitbag don't sell shirts at JL airport? They are a retail business specialising in sports merchandise.

What retail missions do you think could be satisfied?

What percentage of people going through JL airport have not already had the opportunity to buy a replica shirt? If I live in Liverpool, I can buy one easily. If I'm a tourist, I've probably been to Liverpool One.

So you are basically looking at the impulse purchase. Sure you could sell a few but you are not going to make a fortune from it and you could easily lose money.

Just a question: How many replica shirts do you think Kitbag sell and what do you think is the unlimited potential?

The reason JL Airport is a must is because of the exposure it provides. At the moment, any uneducated tourist assumes Liverpool is a one-club city.

The airport should publicise the best of the city and for me that is the two huge football clubs and the Beatles.

I can't believe it's even a debate. What other club doesn't sell its kits in its own city's international airport?!?! Even Espanyol do and they are playing second fiddle to Barcelona.

Absolutely ridiculous!

No risk? No vision, no commercial nouse, no strategy to increase sales or take advantage of the attributes we do have. You think it's no risk so it's a good deal? If you don't take an opportunity, you lose money. If you don't make an opportunity, you lose more.

Kitbag spend zero on promotion, zero on placement and have a captured market at a price they set. No risk.

Meanwhile the bloody customer outside of Liverpool is left with the Internet. Ever heard of impulse buys? No? No surprise there then...

I have friends who wear them; I couldn't. When I was a kid, I liked the Arsenal kit, red top with, eventually, pink sleeves.

Liverpool on the other hand probably have 'plane loads.

Also, people over here in the US will sometimes have more a favourite player than a favourite club. They will buy shirts of those players. And then they wear the short out and about, creating a marketing presence.

It's not rocket science, but they don't understand the world market and how powerful it is becoming.

Once Barkley starts playing consistently on the highlight reel, some midfield playing kids / adults in the US may decide to buy his club shirt. But they - or more likely their soccer mom or dad - still won't be able to find our shirts in the stores.

This really needs to be fixed if we're to be perceived as a big club or even an also ran. And once Howard leaves, and even now as he is no longer a shoo-in first pick for USMNT and on a club level decline (imho), it's going to get even harder unless we fix this, and soon.

New Stadium Next?

Both Kitbag and Everton have a deal which works for them, Everton in that they get a standard annual income that they are happy with that never changes, and Kitbag as they can do supply and demand as they see fit, Currently Everton are playing well and there is a bigger demand; a few bad results and no shirts in JD Sports, we will think they have sold out but outside of Liverpool the fan base for the young floating fan is fickle, and they change like the wind.

And then Christmas is around the corner, try finding an Everton shirt in JD Sports in February...

I live in Colombia and the sports shops here have about 6 teams' shirts, the usual suspects, but no chance of an Everton shirt. The locals, unless already a supporter of one of the clubs will go and buy a shirt they like the look of, and hence give that team more visibility, and they start looking out for the results too, start watching the games live on TV, etc.

You are thinking in a very narrow way, that it is only existing fans that will buy the kit. I'm sick to death of people seeing my blue shirt and saying "Chelseaaaaaaaaa" until I show them the badge and they look confused... we need the presence to make us grow, and we can't do that without selling the damn shirts all over the globe. There is no point in us being on the box more over here if the people who decide they like us can't then go and get the shirt. Colombians like their football, and the guys who play generally have a shirt of a club from each of the major European leagues, and we're losing out, simply because we aren't represented in the sports shops.

While this announcement is a step to improve things, it really is an extremely tiny step and goodness knows what concession the club had to give to allow this change to what seemed a very restrictive contract. World sales of our kits have been completely and utterly strangled, you don't get opportunistic internet sales. (And practically NOBODY buys over the internet in Latin America anyway, there is still a large distrust that things will arrive, and with good reason!)

The internet channel is in general used only by fans, and generates revenue only within that small audience, it doesn't bring in new fans, it doesn't generate awareness and visibility.

Firstly, a wide distribution of Everton shirts would increase sales due to ease of purchase and impulse sales. Yes, Christine I am familiar with the concept having worked in retailing for 30 years. This is undoubtedly true but the costs associated with doing so would not necessarily make you any more profit. And in my opinion most likely lose you money.

Secondly, an exposure of Everton shirts in retail outlets is going to increase our fan base. Again this is flawed. This is not how the vast majority of people are exposed to the football club. The majority will become aware as a result of watching TV. Success on the field will increase the fan base.

Andy Crooks asks a relevant question: How much is there to be made? My best estimate would be a retail merchandise business that could generate 㾻m turnover. (I base that on selling 200,000 replica shirts a year plus other merchandise.) But that is turnover, not profit. Making a net profit of 20% would be going some. Therefore ١m a year with no risk, no infrastructure and no cash tied up is not a terrible deal.

No matter what side of the fence you take on this subject, sales will determine if it's rolled out further or recalled in full, so let's see what comes back before people start patting each other on back for raising the subject. EFC had stores in Liverpool and the Wirral before and both were closed due to poor sales so to get the product flying off the shelves we need to attract more than the loyal fans that post on here.

Overseas is a different issue and I'm not sure why they don't use outlets or a licensee for distribution as this would be much easier but they must be prepaid to invest in this as the return would probably be negative for a minimum of 18/24 months.

I would like to see EFC being bold, especially in the US, and try and do a deal backed with a product endorsement that is aligned to US soccer so, for example, buy "pay TV" full package and receive free Premier League shirt. This would get the brand to the market place very quickly and in that delivery you can add some details about EFC history, website and local fan club.

That would get new customers/fans viewing EFC and hopefully buying in to the brand. Again this would be a limited campaign with say 100,000 tops available so you could then monitor the trends and response meaning your next move can be a little more targeted.

Again this all takes investment and EFC balance sheet isn't awash with spare cash so easier said than done sometimes, the future is about the new fan in this field not fans like me that wouldn't even wear a replica shirt, even if given one free!!

Let's see what the next 24 months bring but at least it's a start.

'Success on the field will increase the fan base.'

It IS a terrible deal then. The money we receive from Kitbag is considerably less than teams who we regularly outperform.

The fact that it operates 'without infrastructure' should not be celebrated either. Just like every other piece of infrastructure this board inherited, it has been hurried out the door for a quick buck. Long-term planning? Who cares about that?

There have been numerous opportunities during this time for the club to take advantage of, namely our European campaigns, and probably most significantly, Tim Howard's success in the 2014 World Cup. Whilst outsourcing maybe beneficial to keep costs down etc, you do wonder why more influence from the club hasn't been put under Kitbag to capitalise on these opportunities.

Enlighten me. Which teams are getting more that we outperform?

"A wide distribution of Everton shirts would increase sales due to ease of purchase and impulse sales."

Answer = YES... if strategically placed.

JD Sports flagship store over here sells all the usual suspects and even that Giant Borussia Dortmund but not an Everton mug in sight.

If I want to purchase from the Megastore, it's close to €100 for the shirt, including postage. Ludicrous.

When I tried to get my 4-year-old son a shirt last season at Everton Two, they had nothing whatsoever in his size. I might be able to jump on a train and try my luck in London now though.

In the days less than a decade ago when you could buy them in JJB Sports outlets in Liverpool and further afield, the shops ended up trying to shift them at a huge discount. Even now on Merseyside, many fans wait for the Everton One and Everton Two shops to launch their sales before purchasing.

People looking at kits in shops out of curiosity is not worth a carrot.

I remember a guy who had a sports shop in Southport telling me he was sick of stocking Everton shirts to see them 'rot on the hangers' !

Or the US or Aussie fans.

There are a lot of very valid points here. I myself live in Nottingham; all of my kits are ordered on pre-sale and I just "hope they are nice". I've had kits in the past that are just okay... so I take on board the ability to touch and feel and try something on. In the Nike days, the sizes were way out compared to Umbro.

The point about appealing to a wider audience is a great one; Let's think about it in another way: we have basketball kits in our shops... I'd assume that most people can recognise a Chicago Bulls or LA Lakers top or Miami Heat and they will be purchased in this country because you may not support them as a diehard fan but you want a basketball top and you know the team. I'd love to see all the Everton kits in retail outlets; when I see Newcastle and Aston Villa shirts available, it does my head in.

Airports are a good start, I guess. Even if a purchase isn't made, the familiarity with the badge and colour may be enough to encourage a new breed of fans, thus making the brand a better and wider source of income.

That said, we're years behind most clubs when it comes to marketing and brand building. Even the Turkish fakers can't be bothered to make our shirt. (I was checking for research purposes, I promise!)

Keep up the great comments on here. I can see this becoming addictive...

I understand where John is coming from but we don't even make the effort to sell ourselves as a club.

If we do ever reach the Champions League proper, then this is a start which may raise our profile. My main concern would be that we would still receive the ١m from merchandising no matter how well we do. As far as I'm aware, the deal with Kitbag is for all official club merchandise, not jut kit sales.

Does anyone know the percentage kit sales would represent compared to our whole merchandise operation? Anyone who's recently purchased a few mugs, mouse-mats, tee shirts, slippers etc. will know what I mean. 㿞 doesn't get you much.

The club don't get any more revenue, they get the same fixed seasonal payment.

i would imagine it would be more Kitbag's idea than our PR department.

It was when we had the Nike kit, their shops could sell the kit too.

This exposes the shortcomings of the present deal - we have outsourced financial risk (a good thing) but one symptom of this has been that the only time we see Everton's image out and about is when there is a shirt selling opportunity rather than a 'status' point to be made. If we aren't prominently featured on large advertising hoardings at local airports or 'footy locations' abroad alongside our competitors then we should be - but that is a job for club PR, not sales.

Much is written about the current deal here: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/Evertons-kitbag-deal-analysed-good-9559038

"Welcome to Liverpool: home of the Beatles and Liverpool Football Club"

Shameful!

The one in Chester was taken over by Liverpool when we dealt with JD sports; instead of Everton Blue carrier bags being carried around Eastgate Street, the other lot were being carried around. The point being, there are a lot of North and Mid Wales shoppers in Chester so I hope one outlet re-appears there.

As a number of Evertonians living abroad are telling you on this thread, the way fans become fans abroad is that they see a team doing well (not necessarily winning trophies, but playing well with good players, beating the top teams fairly consistently and with an ethos they like, eg, Everton) and they want to show their allegiance.

The next step, especially for younger fans, is to buy a team shirt and wear it as leisurewear. If they can't buy one in a local shop, they either lose a bit of interest, perhaps think we are a bit small-time and lose a bit of interest, or reconsider their team and choose one whose shirt is available.

People wearing shirts raises awareness. This is part of the snowball that can build up as time goes on and makes a team bigger and bigger.

Now, you may have been in retailing for 30 years, and funnily enough, so have I. Your first rule is to listen to what your customers want. There have seen countless fans on ToffeeWeb alone, especially from the English speaking world complaining they can't buy a shirt in their country. They don't like the postage costs and the want to see before they buy.

I don't know what business you are in, but in mine we sometimes do things that don't necessarily make money, but raise awareness and build the brand and the name of the business. It's called seeing the Bigger Picture.

If teams like Newcastle, Spurs, Villa and Celtic can get their shirts all over the World, just what are Everton so scared of? Corner Shop mentality.

I read we have 3 wise men appointed to the Commercial Dept in Sunday's programme. Maybe one of them has come in and thrown his hands up at this Kitbag nonsense and done something (albeit limited) about it? As for you Graham, you need to stop being so cautious and narrow-minded. I bet you wear a cardigan and slippers!

Do you not think an Everton shirt with Howard or Donovan on the back would appeal to American kids who are passing through Gatwick airport? It's a step in the right direction in my opinion.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land. How many locations outside of the United Kingdom could possibly have sufficient demand to justify stocking a range of Everton football shirts?

Just pop down to your local sports shop and see if you can buy a Lyon shirt or a Dynamo Zagreb top or even a Porto one. All currently playing in the knockout stages of the Champions League.

You won't find one because the commercial reality is there is no money to be made for the supplier or the retailer.

This phony argument that there are a legion of young people out there that would swell our fan base if only they had access to a replica shirt is laughable.

Funnily enough, I have been in downtown Dakar today and I came across a stall selling replica shirts. Now quite obviously these were fakes so the stall holder, quite an entrepreneurial type, has no Kitbag restrictions... but guess what: no Everton shirts. What an unimaginative short-sighted guy he was, could he not see the bigger picture? Why sell Barca, Madrid, Man Utd and Chelsea shirts when there is this huge untapped market for Everton shirts? I was going to tell him but he was a big fucker.

I wouldn't describe myself as cautious and narrow-minded and as for my choice of footwear, I'm actually wearing my new vintage Grand Slams bought off the internet because, although I really wanted them, those inconsiderate bastards at Adidas are not prepared to listen to what this customer wants and stock them in Manchester.

I appreciate your argument, but if there is no visibility, there is no demand.

Whilst I agree you cannot flood the commercial market space, the lack of any presence in key sectors will mean there is no demand, therefore no demand means no need... So it becomes a justifiable argument that is self-supportive. That is your premise of your justification.

We need to raise brand awareness in areas where other EPL clubs are selling. Give the customer a choice. We need to sell into markets where we have a particular sporting attachment or agreement. That's an overseas player or sponsor.

We need to make it easier for those who are looking to buy and have no idea they can only get it from one location online. We need to form particular strategic commercial partnerships to sell our strips in regions where EPL interest is booming. We need to physically market the strips and the club and players at events both here and overseas, for brand awareness and follow-on sales. Btw, a lot of the suggested activity is tax deductible! Especially overseas marketing activities.

The objective is not just to sell shirts, it's to raise brand awareness, support, and our image. Failure to do so will ensure we are forever viewed as a small-time operator with no corporate strategy, no brand awareness and no commercial leverage. In fact doing nothing more than we are doing will ensure commercial failure, reaffirm our small-time ambition and give doubt to any prospective buyer that there is any value in this club.

On a broader perspective, the lack of any cohesive, innovative or innovative commercial strategy, no communicatable vision leads to exactly where we are today.

Define the logic... We have only sold X number of shirts, therefore there is no demand. You cannot find shirts for sale, therefore we did not sell many shirts, hence no demand. You can only buy online, if they have them in stock, hence no demand elsewhere.

Chicken or egg... Speculate to accumulate, who are we?

http://www.sportsdirect.com/News/entryid/6883/Shirt-Sales-2014-15-Where-Are-Your-Teams-Supporters-Really-From

You make some well thought-out observations without the need to question my type of footwear.

My big question in all this is: What is the size of the prize and would the effort and risk involved be worth it? Are there really strategic partnerships abroad to sell merchandise that would represent a sizeable commercial opportunity for anyone? Is building brand awareness predicated on selling replica shirts?

If we are looking purely at commercial revenue, my gut is not to focus on merchandise but to either find a new stadium or redevelop GP, the revenue potential there dwarfs anything that could be made selling shirts. And guess what? Having 50k every home game would do more for shirt sales than being able to buy one in Shitsville, Wyoming. To this end, our Board has failed and it is the single biggest blight on their record.

Whatever brand awareness means in context of a football club, the single biggest factor in awareness is TV exposure. The PL is the widest watched sporting competition globally. I travel in Africa extensively and whoever I talk to who follows football knows about Everton. Start winning a few things and you will enhance your brand much more than any PR driven or commercial activity could ever achieve,

Great point, we should target cinemas. Just as you are buying your pick 'n' mix (have as many flying saucers as you want) we could strategically locate some Everton merchandise. I for one would love a pair of those Tony Bellew boxing shorts.

After a bit of fiddling around with the internet: Yes .... It IS both easier and cheaper to buy a Dukla Prague away kit, than an Everton home kit! Ah well, such is life!

Seriously, it can't be coincidence, that this announcement comes the day after the new marketing team is appointed.

I feel sure if Everton were to win the Premier League title on goal difference there would be people on here complaining we hadn't won it outright.

You both have some valid points when it comes to Marketing but we must step back from buying kits in your local shop; we aren't in a position to be anywhere near that retail saturation and that comes from on-the-field success and, yes, brand awareness; they run hand in hand.

I would like to point out branding failures of our club. Yes, I will actually criticise it on this point because a lot of our USP have been negative or even parochial but I will explain why.

All major sporting brands have identity, and that identity comes from the name, which is normally backed by the location of the team, which is instantly recognisable to the customer or potential new customer, so this makes it easier for them to buy in to the brand. We have no such connection, which is very unusual when it comes to sporting marketing. All the top brands like New York Yankees, Man Utd, Real Madrid and Barcelona all have this... even the Red Shite across the park. We don't, so we need on-the-pitch success to back that up more and we haven't had that.

Chelsea & Arsenal have had a decade plus of success backed with massive retail and brand awareness marketing. Chelsea Samsung and Arsenal Emirates – these global brands use the team to make their product visual to the masses. Chang doesn't offer that coverage and offers very little added value benefits other than the cash injection every year.

We need to break this scenario if we want to start making in roads in new areas. That will take a massive investment in retail which will lose money, that is guaranteed for at least 2/3 years or better on the pitch activities.

The stadium issue also highlights EFC failings, they all come back to lack of funds, hence why we are where we are and the Club push the parochial markets with slogans like, "The Peoples Club", "If you know your history", "Evertonians go the game", "Chosen" – all these are great when you have already bought in to Family EFC but add nothing whatsoever when you are trying to encourage a new fan base away from the NW England, Hence why out of football most people haven't heard of us, never mind know what City we are based in.

It's not as easy as you all think but some basic changes will help that and I would start with a global brand shirt sponsor even if it means less cash but more exposure. Naturally, winning a pot or two would help.

Many missed "spreading awareness" of who/what we are and our place in the history of the game opportunities.

Securing a big global sponsor I guess would be difficult. Because they have the big bucks they choose the successful teams. I have to keep coming back to my point that it is success on the field that is the key to raising commercial revenues, not the other way around. Start qualifying for the CL on a regular basis and suddenly all your commercial arrangements are in a whole different ball game.

I agree with you when you talk about our brand positioning, all this guff about history and heritage is what is best described in marketing speak as 'preaching to ourselves'.

I think it would make more sense to position ourselves as a 'challenger brand'. We are the team that is ambitious and wants to break through.

However, I still feel you are missing the point that kit sales away from Merseyside are not about making money, but raising exposure. Alan and Christine explain this far more eloquently than me.

I don't doubt there is little or no demand for Everton shirts in Dakar, but in countries that have their nationals playing for Everton (US especially and Australia in the days of Cahill or South Africa when Pienaar was their captain) you might find a different story.

Interesting to see the level of interest in Aston Villa in Ireland when there is a strong Irish community in Birmingham, but of course Liverpool has a much stronger Irish connection, so what could Everton achieve there?

One thing I do agree with you on is the failing of our Board to push the Club forward. You cite the stadium issue, whilst I would say that their small-time, cautious attitude is the reason and that the kit situation, along with the stadium issue, is just another manifestation of that.

Maybe they wear cardigans and slippers? ;)

I did not respond as I thought I would wait to see if anybody agreed with you. This is not a dig; it was simply left for others as I felt almost blown away by your comments.

As other people have said, when leaving Liverpool, the home of Everton FC, I believe it's a must there is an opportunity to purchase the kits. People who have been here on holiday or are going away on holiday have extra funds and may just simply purchase a kit on an off-chance.

As well as kits, many types of Everton memorabilia should be available, from cups, mugs, glasses to pens, pencil cases, etc. It's not exactly rocket science now, is it?

You can nearly always sell stuff but you are going always to ask yourself a couple of questions:

How much can I sell?
How much money can I make on the site?
Is the amount I can make worth the effort and cost internally?

I can distribute my goods in two ways:

(1) I can rent some space and retail the products myself. However, when I do this, I have costs of operation (wages, distribution, space rental, occupancy costs, marketing costs, stock management costs, shrinkage etc etc). Trust me, in an airport you need a fair bit of volume to make this work.

I can tell you quite categorically having done airport retailing globally you will not make an Everton shop work in JL airport. The numbers would never work.

(2) I can agree a supply agreement with another retail partner to stock my product. In this cases my margin is significantly less.

This is more realistic and I think it is the model Liverpool have adopted. Again however you are not going to get rich quick. My estimate of turnover potential for say 3-5 m² of space would be about 㿞,000 a year which which if you got your product assortment right might generate you 㾻,000 of net profit. But of course you could lose money on it. My figures are of course estimates but based on quite a lot of retail experience. Even if I am wrong to the tune of 200%, the earnings are 㿙,000 a year (or a weeks wages for an average first team squad member).

Take that in what most people would consider a prime site and then think about all the other places people would like to see Everton merchandise retailed and what you come up with is not a lot of opportunity and a shed load of risk.

The ability to generate huge amounts of revenue through merchandise is a bit of a myth other than for the mega brands namely Man Utd, Barca and Real Madrid and it becomes disproportionately less as you move down the pecking order.

The big areas in generating commercial revenue are match day (hence the need for new facilities) and sponsorship. They will significantly outweigh merchandise sales.

As for brand enhancement, I understand the point but, with the global reach of TV, winning a trophy or qualifying for the CL will be much more effective than being able to buy a baby gro saying 'my daddy made me an Evertonian' at JL airport ever could.

As far as I could see, every club in the Premier League was represented except one. Have a guess what club's merchandise was missing? Even if they were fakes, it was probably because nobody ever saw Everton shirts in shops, even genuine ones, so nobody could be arsed copying them.

This is the sort of anecdotal nonsense which means the debate moves from the commercial reality to 'we could sell loads of shirts in x at a profit and make our brand a global presence'.

Firstly, let me point out one factual inaccuracy. On the most recent figures Turkey has about 30m tourists a year of which Brits make up about 8%. There are significantly more tourists from both Germany and Russia.

Secondly, the chances of finding genuine PL replica shirts in Olu Deniz for anyone who has visited is laughable. I bought my wife a 㿀 Rolex there a couple of years ago.

I can't really dispute what you say about 95% being PL and every other team being represented as of course I've never been in the shop you recount; however, I have to say I'm sceptical.

I would also wager a small bet that the most popular replica shirt after Galatasaray and Fenerbache is Barca with Messi on the back.

The suggestion that retailers of fake replica shirts don't make Everton ones because they are not available in other retail outlets is one of those assertions that makes your jaw drop and you find it difficult to counter.

The Turks are not stupid and they know that culturally the wearing of football shirts is something almost unique among UK beach holiday tourists. I have no doubt they looked at all major outlets in the UK, and not seeing anything for Everton, bought in or copied everything else they saw in order to make a few bob. This doesn't only apply to Turkey though. In a little shop I came across at Abu Simbel in Egypt a few years ago, just a few miles from the Sudanese border, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool shirts could be bought... no Everton though!

You may well be right that a Barca shirt with Messi on the back would be a best seller in Turkey as a whole but not in Olu Deniz which is totally geared up to British tourism. This was the birthplace of 'Azda Price' after all and even the opening of 'Azda' supermarkets. You should have found that obvious having been there yourself.

As for tourism overall, perhaps I should have made it clearer but I was talking about the kind of tourist who might buy and wear football shirts. The Russians used to visit Turkey in larger numbers than people from the UK but this has not been the case for the last few years. Germans are the largest numbers of visitors to Turkey but not to the resorts. You have to remember that there are nearly 5 million Turks in Germany and many return to Turkey to visit family and friends. These count in the tourist figures because they still need a visa. They are not going to Turkey for the same reason that you or I went to Olu Deniz.

Finally, you can be as sceptical as you like about what I describe about the shop. For the moment I will not assume you are calling me a liar.

Call it supplementary to appearing on TV. People abroad see Everton on TV, like what they see, and want to buy a shirt. They wear it out and about, awareness grows, other people are encouraged to support the Club... and buy a shirt, etc, etc

If it makes so little commercial sense, how come all other Clubs our size do it?

I can see what you are saying in regards to getting into the Champions League etc but, regardless of that, you always have to do the basics. The basics are as such that the Everton kits need to be sold throughout Liverpool and the surrounding areas.

After that, we should try to branch out to other places to capitalise on other markets, regardless of how much money we make, even as a marketing tool. Australia should be swamped in Everton kits as we have had their biggest footballer ever at us for most of his career.

The States should be the same with Howard's goalie top sold throughout. We've also had Donovan, McBride and Max Moore. China: Li Tie. South Africa: Pienaar. The list goes on... one or two people buy the shirt, promote it in doing so, and other follow suit.

This is how you become a global brand, but first and foremost we have to become a local brand and that entails selling shirts in more than two shops.

As I understand it, when questioned about it, Elstone was evasive and couldn't confirm if we'd received it or Kitbag have had it, is anyone any wiser on this?

Because I believe when we get to the truth about this fee and who received it, you will then understand the logic behind the deal and like the Vibrac loans and selling off Finch Farm, Evertonians will see that it's a money-making scam for the real people running Everton FC.

Prove it.

Man Utd also use Kitbag for their sales but their shirts are available in shops worldwide.

We sell shirts through the biggest sports chain in Australia (sorry to yet again bust that myth), so I'm sure it's not restricted.

Well prove it is a tough call given I would have to make some assumptions, but I can make some educated ones which would determine a break even point. Excuse me that I don't do the full discounted cash flow but you should get the gist.

To rent a 1500 sqft retail unit ( typical size for an airport outlet, I would suggest Everton One is about 4000 sq ft for comparison) would cost about £30-35 per sq ft, so your rent is typically about £50,000 pa.

In terms of operating costs your major one is payroll and for a unit operating 12 hours a day, 7 days a week you total costs including holidays, NI, pension and sickness would be about £150,000 pa. (it assumes two people at all times, you could go down to one at certain times but I suspect you might incur a fair bit of stock loss!)

Other occupancy costs would be shared airport services, utility bills, maintenance, amortisation of fit out costs etc you are probably adding in another £50000.

So we start with costs being about £250k per year. Assume we can make a delivered gross margin after distribution costs, stock markdowns and shrinkage of 40%

Therefore just to break even we would need shop turnover of £562,500 per year of approximately £11,000 per week

This analysis does not include other associated costs like central buying, administration and cost of cash of stock and of course breaking even means you would be better with the cash in the bank.

To make it a commercial investment with the required ROCE you are probably nearer to £15,000 pw.

Now in my experience the chances of achieving those sort of turnover levels for an airport with 4m visitors a year just selling Everton merchandise to what are essentially impulse purchasers is pie in the sky.

And if you are in a business that has debt and needs to manage cash tightly why would you consider such high risk low return ventures.

Many on here see it as brand enhancement, I think it's more vanity. I'm pissed of because I can't see my teams shirt on display.

So help me it crossed my mind to drop them over the edge but the wife talked me out of it. Nice. Still I see that Wales qualified and the vino's that's some compensation.

I didn't mean to sound cofrontational; apologies. It just really grates that as a club, entity, whatever, we don't promote ourselves in our own city.

I spend a lot of time in the East End of London, Birningham, Yorkshire, etc – proper football fans know us and have nothing bad to say about us: "Everton...yea!, proper football club."

We don't have a clue how to sell ourselves to the wider world

Again, I'm not convinced by the argument that we need to put shirts on racks as some kind of advertisement of our club. We're on TV every week, in the papers regularly. That's got to be worth more than a few shirts sitting in a sports store.

I was specifically answering Phil's question but the point you raise I covered in #72.

This would be the only sensible distribution would be under this model because you are not committing to cost but of course you share your margin with a partner. There is a shop called 'Love from Liverpool' or something like that. I even guess you could make some money out of it but you could equally lose money.

Of course, this model of de-risking by partnering and margin share is exactly the basis of the Kitbag deal.

You are effectively selling a fashion item, which has a certain shelf life of normally two years. You make most of your sales when the product is launched and before the start of the first season. In the second year, you are usually selling at a discount because there is a new kit coming along. You are managing three different styles in multiple sizes. It all sounds easy but trust me it's not, and what you think is profit can soon evaporate if you don't get your assortment, forecasts and discounting right especially because you are not selling in any real volume.

So could we sell shirts at JL? Yes, we could. Would it make any real difference in the grand scheme of things? Not in my view.

When I lived in Asia I went to the Barclays thing in Bangkok in 2005. (Pre Kitbag, but there was still no distribution outside of UK pretty much.) I had a friend with me and she wanted to look the part, so we toddled over to Chatchuchak Market, and found a top in her size for about ١.

I expected it to be as minty as fuck, but it was remarkably decent quality. A couple of years later I think I discovered why. On a trip to Vietnam, I was in Ben Tham market in HCMC, which was full of branded goods, as well as the usual fake Rolex crap.

Some of the clothes looked really good, and I asked one of the stall holders why. In perfect English (they get cable TV, love the Simpsons), she explained that a lot of the labels have manufacturing facilities in Vietnam, and when the day shift ends, the "night shift" moves in (security paid off), and continues to knock out the goods. They're made to the same spec, labels etc. but minus any packaging as Management would notice that, but not it seems the reduction in other materials.

These then end up for sale in local markets, all with the labels etc. But for a fraction of the price you'd pay in Church Street.

If any of you fashion victims ever need to update your wardrobe, I'd suggest a trip to Vietnam with hand luggage only. Buy a suitcase over there, and fill it. Savings would probably cover your flight and hotel cost.

Back to Bangkok in 2005 - all the Thais around the ground were wearing these ١ Everton tops. Lost revenue to Everton? No way. They'd never have paid 㿙-50 for the top. But we got the brand recognition and profile so many think we lose out on. If I were responsible for Everton's overseas brand, I'd turn a blind eye to this - revenue-wise it's small beer compared to broadcast revenue.

I can't take all this excitement.

Anything Umbro is made in Vietnam and you can get genuine gear quite cheaply, but Vietnam does have a very good quality clothes and footwear manufacturing capability so I usually buy locally made brands that are better and cheaper than the international branded knock-offs.