Everton vs Newcastle United

Guys saying he needs more time, he's brought top players into the club. He's had enough time to get It right and failed. I'm back to wanting 40 points – I thought those days were gone.

We just can't afford to be conceding another 2/3 goals tonight at Goodison, you can't expect to won games by conceding goals every week, this is'nt some fantasy football this is the Premier League and clean sheets are vital for building a platform for success.

I'd probably be tempted to leave John Stones out of the firing line, for his own benefit if nothing else.

Start with Lennon and give Gerry the second half if needs be.

But whatever the team is, just WIN!!

Like Lyndon, said that Shelvey could spoil it for us if we don't get to grips with him. He some player him.

And Townsend is as fast as hell.
both of those players can cause us major problems. But if we stick to our task, and it's a big 'if', we should shackle both of them.

Niasse, being paraded before game and on bench Saturday going by TalkSport.

That Vardy goal was bloody brilliant, wasn't it? Enjoyed it even more so against RedShite.

That Man City were lucky last night. I really felt for Sunderland. But that's football for you.

That's why tonight we had better be on our game. Having all the ball means nothing if we don't come away with the three points.

Besic being injured is a big blow I thought he might make it for tonight's game, because we still lack drive in central midfield. Shelvey will provide that for the opposition.

It's going to be a tough game, we're due a slice of luck, hopefully we get it and win a home game at last.

What the players need is for us spectators to get behind them, the teams below us keep picking up points, it is getting towards serious.

No cat calls etc needed. Newcastle have strengthened, and will be right up for this game.

From the highlights I saw, Leicester completely outplayed Liverpool and what a move that was that should have lead to Okazaki getting a penalty, if that move had been executed by Arsenal we'd have never heard the last of the Barcelona comparisons.

Leicester City..

What a season they've had, little money spent but a combination of being super fit, high intensity and no little skill or flair thanks to the likes of Mahrez and arguably the signing of the season in Kante.

They are an inspiration to every club outside the Sky Four.

Not only would I settle for a spawny 1-0 anti football I'd welcome it. In fact I'd be even more delighted if we got an even spawnier even antier football v Stoke so long as it's 1-0. Give me 1-0 last on MotD games from now til the end of the season.

I've had my fill of 'entertainment' for one season-and you can file that under never satisfied.

For all our 'flair' we can't win a game. It does us no good. This is something Martinez doesn't want to understand. He focuses on flair above winning football.

I'm not jealous of Leicester or even envious anymore because I'm just more disappointed in our own failings and what's gone badly wrong once again.

Leicester have the same team spirit that we had in 2004-05 but they have more flair and more goals in them than we had then, we lacked a 20-goal striker or a Mahrez technician until Arteta arrived but that wasn't until February.

This season we have the pace and flair but we don't have the resolve, the physical fitness to play a high intensity pressure game, and we also lack the ability to work as a unit and defend accordingly as a team.

I do honestly believe that Martinez must take a lot of the blame for Stones's recent erratic form. Constantly going to the press and telling everyone how great Stones is and is going to be must weigh heavily on the young man's mind and then failing to acknowledge the recklessness of actions like the Cruyff dribble in the box all serve to heap added pressure on John Stones. He needs time out and some decent in-depth defensive coaching and to learn that, despite what the manager says, it's not always possible I advisable to try and play the ball out from defence when under pressure. I simple hoof upfield can often be the simplest and most beneficial option.

Sadly, I have to say I have lost faith in Martinez's ability to make the right decisions in such situations and it seems I'm not alone in my thoughts. A poll currently running on the Royal Blue Mersey site, asking for fans' opinions on Martinez's performance as manager of our football club in January makes for interesting and quite damning reading. Still running, the current state of voting from the fans is as follows:

Asked for their approval rating of the manager's performance...

0 - (Horrific). 73%
1 - (Poor). 16%
2 - (Average) 8%
3 - (Good). 2%
4 - (Excellent) 0%

I think that pretty much sums up the general feeling among the supporters and it'll be interesting to see the final figures when the poll closes. When I first saw it yesterday the 'horrific' rating stood at 70% so the increase to 73% overnight indicates even more growing dissatisfaction with Martinez's ability to steer us clear of trouble and let's not delude ourselves. Another couple of bad defeats and we'll be well and truly in the relegation mire, but of course, we are not under achieving, because Roberto Martinez says so, right?

We must be able to get at least £12m for Hibbo.

What about a package including Gibson, Osman, Pienaar - £40m?

Some interesting calls tonight:

Robles or Howard – a no-brainer
Funes Mori or Stones – Funes Mori
Lennon or Deulofeu – Lennon.

I would like to see Pienaar get some more game time as I think he brings a balance to the team.

If the recently impressive Gareth Barry can keep a tight control of Shelvey, and stop him making any telling passes then I think we'll be alright.

I would like to see Rodriguez on the bench tonight instead of Kone, we must surely be ready to give him a chance by now. Kone is fading by the game (apart from the odd decent display in the cup).

My team (for what it's worth):

Robles
Coleman, Jagielka, Funes Mori, Baines
McCarthy, Barry
Deulofeu, Barkley, Lennon
Lukaku

Give Stones a rest tonight and put him on the bench. He needs to get his confidence back.

I am worried about tonight, not least because I think Newcastle have bought well this January, and they have in any case shown improved away performances, even if this has not translated into actual wins. The team you suggest is as good as we can put out right now, Lyndon, taking account of current form.

We have a good record against NUFC, but there is more "on" this game than any of the recent encounters, as a defeat for Everton will be very damaging and probably put paid to a top eight finish.

Swansea City who sacked their manager Gary Monk because of fear of relegation were last night stoppage time away from recording their seventh victory of the season at West Brom and are now just three points behind us.

I wonder if Martinez and the bungling cronies that run our club are actually aware of the fact of how bad we have really been this season? 6 wins in 23 I give you.

Make no mistake victory tonight would just paper over the cracks which will continue to blight us whilst we have a terrible defensive set up and erratic goalkeeper.

For me, this is all about the right shape and tactics; I totally agree with leaving Stones out – his head has gone with the terrible coaching he's getting from Martinez and the media hype which had built him up to be something he is not yet!

Newcastle are now perfectly equipped to beat us at home as they have Shelvey and Townsend to hit us on the counter attack! Tonight is all about Lukaku and Deulofeu, if Rom can hold the ball up and get Deulofeu one-on-one with Dummett in the final third it's ours for the taking the only question I've got is can Lukaku do it up front on his own without Kone easing the pressure?

Rom hasn't been the same since the Stoke game at home – it's like he's given up the hope of top four, sorted a move abroad, and dropped right off with his workrate and desire!

Oh for a manager with a complete football brain instead of one who seems to have forgotten the defencive part... maybe he mislaid that part of the book when he was learning?

I can't imagine Newcastle's buying spree will have much influence on this game as the new boys will either be waiting clearance or not up to full fitness.

I've repeatedly forecast we shall get at least 5 further victories. This will be one of them.

McCarthy needs to cover Barry whilst he stays close to Shelvey, and then be ready to receive the ball from him to start our attacks. I would like to see Lennon and Deulofeu both start so we can use their pace to hit Newcastle.

Whatever the team we must start picking up wins at home, only 3 home league wins is relegation form. Sooner or later we will start to lose away games and if we arent winning at home then we could be in a spot of bother.

So instead of blaming the lack of atmosphere at Goodison lately make it exciting from minute one. The crowd are desperate for a win and if the team is up for it then so will the fans be.

Robles will thankfully start and hopefully Stones will be given a 'rest'.

Keep it tight at the back, we'll get a result as the barcodes defence is as bad as ours. (Big 'if' I know...)

Lukaku (2) Baines (1)

Please be true...

When I saw Martinez I thought our prayers had been answered. :)

Robles
Coleman, Funes Mori, Jagielka, Baines
Barry, Mcarthy
Deulofeu Barkley, Cleverley
Lukaku

Baines, Coleman and Barry are the same. They can all use both feet but prefer to stay with the stronger one. This puts a severe brake on our forward tempo.

Baines' forward running is even more noticeable when he plays for England, because it is never noticed by any other player and i'm always screaming PASS IT TO BAINES FFS at the telly.

What are the odds on a new boy sticking the boot into us, someone like Shelvey, Townsend or Doumbia. 4 points from tonight and Stoke, nothing less is good enough, otherwise we really are in a dogfight with others below picking up points.

Nothing, however, that Ross hasn't got in his armoury but he'd probably be fined a weeks's wages for shooting from there.

I also really like Besic but I think he is out for another few weeks. When fit again it has to be McCarthy and Besic in the middle of the park for me. Don't like saying it in case I jinx things but if Bobby gets the team selection right we should win comfortably.

Anyway, Barcodes will have some renewed confidence with some newbies and maybe the knowledge Everton are vulnerable at Goodison. Everton will obviously have to start well and put them to the sword early in order to establish control.

Shelvey has ability and needs to be kept from spraying those long balls. I would like to see Cleverly passing better than he has been.

Yes, a 1-0 victory would suffice as they have to go to Stoke next and need to be full of confidence.

I would probably start Lennon over Deulofeu on the right anyway. Deulofeu is a half-hour player as far as effectiveness goes at the moment.

One game into his UK tenure, Swansea's manager had clearly done his homework on us:

i) Surround Lukaku, who is always isolated on his own.

ii) Press Everton when they start fannying around at the back and force them to play the ball quickly.

iii) Squeeze them to make them play through the middle, then pack the edge of the penalty area as they run out of ideas.

All three worked a treat and despite a lot of huff & puff, we never looked like equalising, never mind winning a game we never got a grip of. This against one of the most abject teams in the division... at home.

I am NOT a pessimist, but sadly cannot see any other scenario tonight against an ever more abject team – because Martinez has not got the nous to organise this talented bunch of players into an effective unit.

It's not just the defence he can't sort out. Midfield is an incoherent shambles and up front we look great in full flow but run out of ideas and movement most of the time.

Baffles me why, for example, that when in possession and with Deulofeu in acres of space on the wing, no-one seemingly has instructions to look for him and we play it sideways to whoever happens to be standing out on the left.

So much potential here right now, but SO frustrating with every game that passes to realise that Martinez (for all his virtues), doesn't look as if he knows how to harness it.

We all know we should play these off the park tonight. But we all know we won't, don't we?

With our record this season a draw seems likely tonight which will just about keep our heads above the relegation waters. Stoke (on Saturday) are on a bad run so not a bad time to play them.... I know, I know. About time we won there, can't remember the last away win against them. Anybody?

I would go all out attack against a very porous defence going against my feelings for every other game and beat the third from bottom team making it a hat trick against the bottom three.

With that in mind I would start Lennon on the left and Delofeu on the right bringing Pienaar on for the second half for Delofeu.

I would give McCarthy a rest and play Cleverley there and Although I was in the camp of resting Stones to take the pressure off him I thought Funes Mori had a very shaky game on Sunday so would renew the Stones Jags partnership for this one and hope the crowd don't get impatient with Stones.

I suspect Howard has diplomatic flu.

How long will the negotiations with Moores drag on? Nothing else to hope for this season except the Big Bill Buy-out.

They haven't even sat down for final talks yet.

That should be fun when they ask for an explanation of "Other Operating Costs".

Maybe if there is a change to your line-up, Stones will come back in at the expense of Funes Mori. Criminal in my view because the lad is a mistake and a penalty-giver waiting to happen. I could just imagine Martinez sitting in his office saying to himself. "I'll show these who's boss."

Expect another night of toil á la Swansea. Got 'draw' stamped right through it.

Did you happen to notice what all the top 7 teams did last night? Yes, that's right, they all kept clean sheets.

Might be worth a try!

I also cannot believe those who are still talking of us finishing as high as 7th or 8th. I want to be optimistic, I really do....but I am being a realist based on all the evidence before me. As a result I am just waiting for the 40 point mark to be reached so that I can relax a bit (if it ever is!). The way things stand a draw against a bottom 3 team keeps them the same distance behind us, although I hope for a win of course. Hope is all we have to look forward to now as Bobby has all but removed enthusiastic expectation.

6 wins from 23 and people expect 5 or 6 more from the remaining 15 games! I hope you are right!! I want so much to be proved wrong.

Please please please win tonight as my nerves will not stand remaining on 29 points for any longer!

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/Everton-v-newcastle-not-just-10831569

I also agree that Besic and McCarthy should be our future partnership in holding midfield, but at the moment I can't fault Barry. And I never thought I would say that (never really rated him).

Anyone think Rodriguez should be on the bench tonight? Or is it just me? I just want to see what he can offer us instead of Kone.

It's a lovely old romantic notion to imagine him saying: "Just go out and play lads..."

But in sad reality, it looks as if that's about it?

So tonight, impose yourselves Everton and get THEM on the back foot right from the kick-off. Don't let it be Newcastle who get the first shot off and induce the first gasp from the crowd.

Rip into them. Let's thrash someone for once, get a big win under our belts and finally start climbing the table in realistic pursuit of a European place.

Every game since November has been a vital one for us, but this is the tipping point. Lose tonight and we really are going nowhere under this manager.

If that's the case, my walk down Priory Rd after the game could be 'pwoppah nawwwteee'

Link

Up the Toffees!

We may end up in some such games in the future with Martinez, but they will only ever be at the end of the season trying to avoid relegation, Roberto's speciality.

Bravo. This is nothing more than a meaningless game in February. Thank you, Martinez, for letting us know how being one point above 15th in the table is not under-achieving at Everton.

Any game versus a team below you is must win to me. That is how they stay below you and then relegation is only a word you read about for other clubs.

Hope Stones sits, as the defense looks way more comfortable without him messing around in the box.

Quite apart from everything else, I and nearly 35000+ others have spent/will be spending hard earned cash going tonight to expect a 'must win' attitude from every player and every single other person who takes a wage from us.

So yeah, let's get some proper perspective which isn't sitting in your armchair looking a league table and a fixture list, it's playing for the supporters and the absolute honour to be playing or managing for Everton Football Club.

Jim and Colin by definition a must win game is a game where there must be serious consequences if they do not win, for example serious threat of relegation, or major opportunity lost to get in top 4.

If we don't win tonight, hate to say it, but so what? It won't have any major ramifications at all. We'll just be slightly lower in mid table rather than slightly higher. This game highlights the transformation of our club from a top 4 competitor to a mid table also ran under the feckless stewardship of one Mr Martinez.

Time and again those (not saying you) who wanted Moyes out used the fact that we only finished 5th 6th 7th as some way of justifying their view that Moyes wasn't good enough. Well finishing in those places meant games were always significant right up to the end of the season, we always had hope. I'm not used to games that mean so little when we are only in early February.

This cannot under any definition be classed as a must-win game and every game is not a must-win game; if it were then the expression 'must-win' would be totally meaningless. Context is needed to justify such a term.

By your definition use of the term 'must-win' implies that there is an element of choice in picking what you win. By the same definition that means there is less effort in games that are not 'must win' in the way you are trying to define.

Sorry sunshine, doesn't work like that. If it did, then by the time you got into trouble, that means you 'must-win' you aren't capable of it. Martinez knows that better than most – or at least he should; I'm not so sure.

Winning is a habit you get into; winning a game starts with challenging for that throw-in, or cutting Ronaldo in half with a – perfectly fair – tackle which sparks your team on a run.

Winning is a habit; so is losing. We are in a rut by my definition, it has to stop at the earliest opportunity. That's tonight, hence, 'must-win'.

Now I'm off to Goodison Park.

Amen to that Brother Joe. I fancy you, myself and others of like-minded expectations belong to the Alan Ball-Peter Reid school of thought that HATED losing and would contest every single thing on the pitch for every second of the game.

Andy Walker, I think I get the point you are making – that under RM we are less likely to be involved in meaningful must win games at the top end of the table than we were under Moyes, but rather more likely (eventually) to face must-win games at the wrong end of the table if Roberto remains at Everton.

Unfortunately, the way your posts read implies you are not concerned with the team's plight or lowly position, which I'm guessing is not what you really intended.

I got Andy's point and if his argument was 'must-win' was a ridiculously stupid concept at all for professional sportsmen then I would agree. But saying there are 'must win' games implies there are 'can't be arsed if we lose or draw' games.

I can't ever accept that. Not least, as I said, because money changing hands means a contract and a duty of care. Paying fans are overlooked by TV companies, media and rich owners. When the fans themselves start doing that we really have reached a low point.

We really need to get these points, as another display like the Swansea one will just not do.

I hope Lukaku wakes up from his hibernation and bags a couple.

There are 38 games in the league so I would say each is equally important as the season begins. Now as the season progresses then the remaining games become more or less important depending upon the results before, correct? However, the factor of who you will play then adds in. Everton sits 8 points from the 18th place team, Newcastle. If we lose, then we sit 6 points above Norwich who would then be in the relegation spot of 18th.

After Newcastle, we still play Aston Villa, Norwich, Sunderland, Bournemouth, and West Brom. These are the teams below us. The rest of our games are against teams above us.

Everton currently are averaging 1.23 points per game overall. This should see us to safety at 46 points. However, if we lose to the teams below us, especially those in 19-17th place then we will have to gain more points per game to stay on the average. which is hard to do versus teams better than us in the standings.

I know the analysis is simplistic but this is why this game is a must win as there are, borrowing your definition, serious consequences if we lose.

I agree totally on your on your stance, re: professional sports people and the concept of 'must win' games. They are richly rewarded and their professional lives are dedicated to honing their skills and mindset to produce the very best performance they are capable of every time they enter the live sports arena.

To get to the level they have, every professional footballer on Everton's book has faced competition, challenges and battles pretty much every day of their career. For their own professional pride, never mind any question of moral duty to the paying public, every game by default is a 'must win,' regardless IMO of the narrow definition Andy attempts to apply.

Doesn't look like we have too many options... Let's hope the kids doing well out on loan will get some first-team opportunities next season.

We'll win tonight, that will be two down four to go.

Things can only get better.

Lukaku's mind recently seems to be where is he going this Summer as does Stones.

The crisis of confidence that will come from not winning this game is a frightening thought.

This match ain't a must-win game for the club and the comments on this thread which I was referencing have been made in the context that this is a must-win game for our team, just like you would expect to use the term.

The comments made on here to which I was referring were not made in the context of the minds of the players, very zen.

Imagine 3 games to go we are away at the bottom team. If we win then all we have to do is win our remaining last 2 games at GP to guarantee a top 4 finish. It's in our hands (I know it's a ridiculous dream but bear with me).

Now here we have the definition of 'must-win games'. What would you call these games? Oh yea, just the same as this game against Newcastle. I think there's a big difference in the importance of such games and I suspect most folk would.

Martinez is the master of hyperbole, we all recognise that last season everything was 'phenomenal' and this season it's 'incredible'. It now seems the hyperbole may be catching if fans get to the stage where every game we play is a 'must-win'. Of course, if we redefine this term, then, when we do win, the manager will get greater credit for winning what was spun as a must-win game. Context and perspective are so important, the power and influence of the misuse of language should not be forgotten.

Martinez is not just being derided by most fans for his ludicrously OTT statements but now by national media. It causes damage to our club and he'll end up loosing credibility with the players if he keeps telling them how incredible they are, because they won't buy it forever.

I'm bemused with no Deulofeu playing...

Jim @ 82 has a good stab as to why, before a ball is kicked in anger at the start of the season, every single 38 league games is a 'must win', because there is an incremental effect on subsequent fixtures if you do/don't win.

To that end, as others in this thread have pointed out, tonight is a 'must win' game before we REALLY get into a 'must win' game (as narrowly defined by you).

Team aside, this could be a difficult game. Newcastle are notorious poor travellers, but they have been up and down home and away this season. Shelvey, on form, is player who could hurt us with those long diagonal balls from which we've conceded so often this season. Andros Townsend could give Oviedo a torrid time, though the latter is quick (is that why he was picked?). I hope I'm wrong, but I can this as 2-2.

That really made me smile! By definition, by preceding 'win' with 'must' there has to be a much greater than average importance to winning that particular game. That's what the word must means. Otherwise saying every game is a must win game is a totally nonsensical sentence. Bit like the one above.

I know this may look like semantics but the casual reinterpretation of words is what snake oil merchants and their believers thrive on. Martinez's casual attitude to our language stinks, I know it's not his native tongue but he's intelligent enough to know better and it seems like some fans are getting caught in his trap.