Coleman admits words are empty without results

The trouble is whatever it is that's meant "to even out as the season goes on" luck or consistency, it's always too late for Everton to achieve anything other win a few games when there's nothing at stake and nowhere to finish.

We have proved time and again that we fail to pass the high pressure tests and the FA Cup will no doubt follow suit, be it at Bournemouth or a later stage, we just await the hard luck story once more.

I don't really know where or when the talking stops and action starts.

Seamus is right though, it's no good telling the fans what they already know and have known for 18 months.

It's like me saying to my boss "I know what I should do" and then not doing it.

It's ultimately a results-based business so RM must know that his job is on the line – especially with a takeover looming; so surely self-preservation should dictate that he needs to close this hole, because our defending at set-pieces is comical.

Aside from that, if we do get new owners, and those owners are American, who's going to be put in place to make footballing decisions regarding managers/player purchases? It's one thing having new owners, it's quite another when they know dick about football.

lt would be be far more desirable if they choose to stay for another year because they could be part of something exciting and challenge for trophies and the Champions League places.

To me, we are not that far away if he can re-examine his principles and sort out the defense.

Personally I hate these pundits. They jump on the bandwagon when they think it's a popular thing to say. It's amazing how the players get off with murder, missing sitters, basic errors, some would need to look in the mirror.

I don't think it's the case that Martinez's supporters can't grasp or accept it. I think that they/we believe that at some point (a mountain of patience is required) he will get it sorted. The evidence suggests that he won't, but at some point he'll have to.

I think we've seen the beginning of him getting it together. He's played the team that many have been calling for, and he's made some big decisions and then stuck by them.

I think the reason many still support him is because they recognise that he is building a very good, potentially great, team. Many of these players have come because of him. He's managed to convince Bill to open the purse strings. He's allowed Barkley to learn and develop, make mistakes, and continue to play. Many managers would not have trusted Barkley and would have stifled his development.

We all view things in a different light. I suspect we will win the next 3 and then the hysteria will die down once again.

Do you not look at the Premier League table, the stats of our pathetic home record???

Jesus man wake up, you're as deluded as the manager.

Hopefully Niasse can give us some new fresh attacking ideas rather than Kone. RM's substitutions sure leave us fans frustrated and I'd say Mirallas & Deulofeu even more so lately. Seeing Kone and Osman come on before them must have been a real kick in the teeth.

Have you both been saying the same things since the latter end of his first season? How long are you both and other Martinez acolytes going to go on about this great team he is building. This clown could manage Barcelona and he'd fuck it up!

Look at his past history not one single thing has changed since he went into management and believe me not one single thing will change. This fool is entrenched in his ways and that's it. When he takes us down no doubt we'll hear some posters decrying our bad luck and we were so nearly there etc etc.

He's tried to go more defensive recently with Cleverley, McCarthy and Barry all playing in what is really 4-3-2-1 formation to help shore up the defence, but at the cost of no width on the left only the right with Lennon, Deulofeu or Coleman providing the cutting edge, on top of what Barkley does in the centre.

Even though it's tight on Oviedo, he needs to re-introduce the Baines - Pienaar combination on the left.

Whilst he persists in not setting out defensive tactics on set-pieces and stopping crosses coming into the box – the results won't change.

Whilst he persists on playing out of form players and players out of position – yep, the results won't change.

ps: If corners are not important, maybe someone ought to let Pulis now, as WBA have scored two against us this season!

After reading Barton's comment, as a lifetime Evertonian, he is simply voicing what we all feel about the current state at Goodison. As one who has lived and breathed EFC since I saw my first game on the shoulders of my uncle at age six in the Boys Pen, who helped clear snow off the pitch on more than one occasion in the 'fifties, who spent years selling the club pools coupons around the city and gloried in our famous 'School Of Science' nickname.

Even now, 3,500 miles from home I check in to TW and the Echo EVERY day for the latest updates which are making increasingly gloomy reading as we needlessly lose games and throw away points at an alarming rate.

Let's hope it is being heard loud and clear that RM is not good enough for EFC.

Of course, I see his flaws, but I do believe he is laying solid foundations. I will reassess at the end of the season. Of course, if that is okay with you?

In Coleman's case, no early crosses. Just slow the tempo, take on the fullback and try to open things up.

Watford (H): cross into the box from our right - GOAL
Man City (H): cross/shot into the box from our right - GOAL
Liverpool (H): Corner - GOAL
Man Utd (H): Corner - GOAL
Man Utd (H): cross into the box from our right - GOAL
Sunderland (H): Individual mistake by Stones - GOAL
Sunderland (H): cross into the box from our righ - GOAL
Palace (H): Corner - GOAL
Leicester (H): soft penalty given away - GOAL x2

Brenda did the same thing in the last 2 or 3 weeks before the RS decided to accelerate the process of allowing him to consider alternative career path opportunities.

It's the takeover or bust.

Issue is, these same players won't stay here long as we lounge around midtable, unable to beat teams at home. I would be very surprised to see Stones and Lukaku still here come next season. They've seen the Martinez 'magic' and realized it's built on hot air. Mirallas will def go and we'll see about Coleman.

As for giving him time. He's now well into his 3rd season with us, his 7th in the prem. I haven't seen anything this season, at all, to suggest any improvement (never mind significant) from last season, despite the squad being stronger.

People keep saying we're building and we're close to something big. Trouble is this has been the case for at least 18 months and we're still going nowhere.

RM made a huge thing about the EL being an issue last season and this was swallowed by many. What's been the issue this time? We're in mid February now and we haven't moved on at all since last season.

Sorry but the guys' had enough time - he simply should not be in the premiership. At pretty much any other club he would have been sacked by now.

We are going to lose 2 to 4 players in the summer, from the best team we have had for a long time. Sorry but the manager has to go – we are not Barcelona or Wigan

Where did you read this, Alex?

Is there a backroom role for him to oversee youth progress towards the first team and as perhaps transfer consultancy... what is that... is that a Director of Football (whatever one of those actually is!)?

I think we have a decent squad and he is partially responsible for that, just get him off the bloody touchline and get someone there who has a bit more nous who will instill confidence and order in the players and the fans too.

So our young players need time. Soon our "young " players will be mid twenties. Then senior players. How much time is needed. Defending corners is basic. Defending set pieces is basic. Taking corners is basic. Taking free kicks is basic. How much time do our players need to learn the basics. Multi million pound footballers failing on very basic football techniques. But let's give Martinez time. Time to get right what every football team in the country can do.(at all different levels).

Sorry for banging on, but all this talk from some supporters about the young players needing time , is nonsense. IMO. How much time did young Dele Alli or Harry Kane need, to make their mark? How much time did Leicester City need to turn things around. Football is about now. We had a chance of a league cup final. No, not for Everton.. We had a chance to really push the top four this season.. But No. Our young players need time. Our team , full of internationals, needs time. What a load of crap. Time is running out for this squad. As I fear some will be moving on.(and can you blame them). Then watch them fulfill their potential. Watch some of our youngsters then really hit the heights.(I believe that). But the shame is that it will not happen at Everton. And that really is a shame.

But as I am ever the optimist. Let's hope that we beat Bournemouth, and then Villa. At least keep the season meaningful for a few more weeks.

Anyway any type of new formation idea for RM would be welcome at this stage FFS. Taking off Stones and putting on Coleman with 10 mins to go in the semi-final of a cup to try get a goal doesn't constitute a change in formation or plan for me but maybe I'm just old fashioned.

I don't share the belief that he will eventually take us down. I want him to have time because I believe in his vision. Yes, I find him frustrating but, like Barkley, I'm happy for him to learn and develop, and make mistakes in the process. I, like you, wish he would learn quicker, and I would also like him to employ a completely new backroom setup.

Let's grant you for a moment that he is learning and developing this season, as we continue to descend the table... Happy? I find that unfathomable as a feeling when watching us perform this season.

But is he learning anything? Are we developing in any way at all? Sadly, the record shows we're learning nothing, he's learning nothing – just doing what he's always done, in his seven seasons in the Premier League.

I was hugely critical of Moyes but always hoped he would change, that the side would develop into something better. He never changed; it never happened. If anything, people like Moyes and Martinez become more and more intransigent as time ticks away and opportunities are left by the wayside.

I think he felt that he was doing things the right way at Wigan, but that the players weren't good enough. He came to us and thought that he could make it work with better personnel. He hasn't been able to and it's embarrassing that he's continued to try.

However, I appreciate other aspects of his management and his long term vision. I think he, during this arduous process, will learn and make the necessary changes. He'll have to if he wants to be around to see his vision become reality.

This is not about 'modern media, they've no choice.' Compare Pochettino. They're on fire, but before last weekend's match he said when invited to big up that it was a time for acton not words. He's been the same all season and his players' attitude is exactly what he wanted.

With a player (90% 0f the time) you can clearly see whether they have talent or not.

A manager however is different, and Martinez has proven to be stubborn more than anything else. Personally, he talks like someone who thinks he knows a lot but actually knows nothing.

He gets praise for his 'attacking football philosphy', yet I would say that having talented players and telling them to attack is easy. The difficult part is getting them to a) perform consistently, b) control games for 90 minutes, c) develop balance (not have one aspect of play negate another), and d) points.

Martinez has failed in all 4 aspects of that. Compare with the younger Pochettino. He has, without spending huge sums, built a young team that plays attacking football, combined it with one of the league's best defences and sits 2nd in the table. (At the start of the season, Everton and Spurs were credited of being at a similar level).

When Pochettino talks, he seems genuinely intelligent and not someone trying to sound intelligent. He has a vision for the future, trusts youth, invests in the academy. He is a top class young manager. Martinez isn't in the same league as him, yet in his head i'm sure he beleives he's superior. He has a philosophy afterall.

Yes, Howard and Baines were on the bench last weekend, but he has a record of putting injured/unfit players there...

Oveido is getting a good run of games in place of Baines... but Galloway, despite doing really well, has all but disappeared since Coleman came back... and his general play (apart from a wonderful run and header for a great goal from a corner!) continues to be hugely frustrating, presumably as he implements Martinez's moribund 'instructions'.

Still, a certain degree of optimism in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary seems important to the make-up of many fans. I understand that but unfortunately cannot convince myself to participate.

He dropped them due to injury, and in the former 2, dared not put them back in.

His persistence with Kone, his refusal to change the formation against West Brom, his marginalization of Mirallas (one of the crimes of the century at this club), and, at the end of it all, the fact that it is 16 February and we have 35 points.

Personally, I don't believe said players were injured. A little too much of a coincidence, given that the players had been under pressure and now continue to find themselves on the bench.

Fran, so the fact that we have played decent attacking football has nothing to do with Martinez, yet all of the negatives are completely down to him?

There are many on here that have said Barkley isn't going to be any good, has no footballing brain and is overrated. Maybe talent isn't as easy to spot as you say.

The faults are obvious, but to say that he isn't young in management and that he can't learn or improve is nonsense. I can't be bothered to list the well documented examples of managers being on the brink of getting the bullet, but instead being given time, turning it around and becoming legends.

You'll say, "Martinez isn't capable. He isn't good enough." That is exactly what their fans would have said to.

It is just that his record as a premiership manager is abysmal and there is no sign of that improving even with top class players at his disposal.

In all honesty, I desperately wanted Martinez to succeed after his spectacular first season with us, but nearly three seasons on I do think it is a fact that he just does not have the necessary qualities for us to be successful in the long term. People good at their jobs recognise when things are going wrong and will fix any problems sooner rather than later.

We are at were we were with our last manager – only this guy is the polar opposite from negative but does not understand how important the "negative" side of the game is, just like Moyes didn't understand how important the "positive " side if the game is. We need a manager who can do both.

Martinez has done some good things, signed players that would never have looked at us only for him being the coach – that I believe. But the buck stops with the manager and his coaching style and everyone including the dogs on the street know he has been found out. His failure to address our defensive liabilities tells me he is incapable of doing so.

New owners may well let him get to the end of the season, but his time at Everton is coming to an end. If this new guy Niasse does the business it may be his salvation, but if he turns out to be shite!!!

Martinez and the club analysts failed to study the West Brom corner strategy. Even without study they should have known that Olsson is targetted at set-pieces because it happens so many times during the season.

I've always been interested in the way Martinez is gradually building a very decent squad but his win stats suggest that he is very lucky to still be in regular employment.

I do believe that there is a fair amount of frustration fuelled apathy towards Roberto, and as understandable as it may be, It does seem to skewer people's ability to be rational when assessing his performances.

Roberto is frustrating and stubborn, but he isn't the fool that some believe. When he finally accepts that his philosophy is flawed, he will become a very good manager. He has so many of the necessary attributes and is getting it right in other areas of the game.

I agree with you that 2.5 years is not a huge amount of time and that a manger should deserve more really. However, when RM came to GP it wasn’t like he had to start from scratch and rebuild Rome. I was over the moon to see Moyes finally go but he did leave RM one of the best defences in the league as a very solid platform to build on and initially RM did exactly what most fans wanted – ie, get rid of deadwood (eg, big Vic/Jonny H) and bring in a decent striker (fair play for bringing in Lukaku) and mids to compliment Pienaar and Mirallas.

We then saw an initial improvement in play and results as the extra quality upfront and in midfield (Barry/McCarthy) paid dividends as this was added to the solid defensive platform he inherited.

However, since around April 2014 we have gone backwards as his ’philosophy’ kicked in. Admittedly a period of adjustment/reality was always going to come about but the fact is we just don’t seem to have moved forward in almost 2 years. If at least there were signs he really was/is ’learning’ and that different things were being tried when other tactics were not working, then I think most fans would accept that. However, we just seem to be doing the same thing over and over again. Always 4-2-3-1 with same tactics, regardless of opposition, home or away. Sometimes it works, sometimes not – but guaranteed no consistency. In the mean time our once great defence is now a bit of a joke and a clean sheet is hailed as a minor miracle. The likes of Baines and Coleman are a shadow of their former selves.

Fact is, to be near the top of the league, a tight defence is more important than a rampant attack. Take a look at the table - we have the 3rd best attack and the 13th best defence. Of the 10 teams above us only one has let in more goals. Of these same 10 teams, 7 have scored less goals – a tight consistent defence is critical to getting a place nearer the top of the pile, which was why Moyes managed to consistently get top 6-8. (Sunderland in 19th have scored more goals than Stoke in 10th and only one less than Man Utd in 5th........but have let in 50 goals.)

RM also believes in possession almost at all costs (how many interviews has he gone on about how high our possession % was, even though we lost or drew the game?). The less said about our set pieces (attacking and defending) the better. The constant bigging up of players as ’best ball playing center half in Europe’, ’will be one of England's best ever players’, ’best striker in Europe’, ’X,Y,Z will ’explode’ in the second half’, etc - when we’re not even performing on the pitch, is frankly slightly insane. And my favourite ’the performance is more important than the result’...... to justify not having won.

The guy simply cannot or will not recognise when things are not going well and most importantly does not recognise that HE is capable of making mistakes and hence may need to make a change (and possibly admit it from time to time). It’s this fact that is the most worrying as it implies there will never be a change and what we have now is basically it. That is why for me his time was up a while ago – whether he’s here another month or year will make no difference to how we play or our up and (mostly) down results, (things may even get worse as the likes of Lukaku leave).

Looking at the games we have won this season – 6 of the 8 wins came where we either played a team that was woeful (Aston Villa, Sunderland, both Newcastle games – all bottom 3), or a team that played really poorly on the day – (Stoke, Chelsea). The West Brom and Southampton games are the only games were we came through a tough test on the day to get a result. Doesn’t fill me with much hope for games coming tbh.

At least we have to play Aston Villa again, although Sunderland will be a different game to last time. I can almost write off all remaining home games as well.

In saying that, everyone has a right to their own opinion and I respect the right of those who still have faith in RM (no matter how ridiculous I find it. :-).

Essay over...

With Geri or Lennon we naturally win lots of corners so it's something we need to exploit without compromising Roberto's ball-playing principles!

Is Martinez as good as Kendall? No more questions, your honour!

Thirty three years is a long time! Just to add Coleman is not as good as Steven, Rats was a mile better than Jags until he got his injury at Sheffield, Rom is not as good as Sharpy and Lineker/Gray/Heath as good as Kone????

Baines would get probably get in the team but Pat van den Hauwe was probably a better defender but did not contribute as much going forward. Thank God I was around to enjoy those days in the mid 1980s.