Jagielka laments penalty miss and depleted numbers following Hammers collapse

Friggin' let-down.

3 points ahead of Bournemouth...

Disgusting!

Is this really the best our captain can say after another shambolic performance and collapse of the team he captains.

Stand up and be counted, man, and tell it like it is for fuck sake. Absolute disgrace – ONCE AGAIN...

Between the lot of them, how many times has this happened now?

I'm afraid I have lost my faith in Martinez; I just cannot see this man being able to take us to a new era.

For 75 mins, we were really good today, probably best game at Goodison this season. You could sense the deflation when the penalty was missed but that is not why we lost.

The reason we lost is plain and simple. In less than 3 seasons we have gone from one of the best defensive teams in Premier League to one of, the worst. We cannot defend properly, especially crosses into the box.

For reasons known only to Martinez he changed the shape / formation that had seen us get 2-0 in front and be in control of the game. Jags pointing the finger at the penalty miss is very poor in my opinion. Stand up and be counted. We lost because of poor defending again.

We should have taken Bilic instead of the Spanish Pretender.

We are not learning from past mistakes and I've lost hope... even the tiny bit I had left.

Everton need a manager with big brass balls. Martinez is weak & this once great football club is going nowhere. It is falling apart & Billy BullShit isn't doing anything about it. This beautiful football club is ruined,

Previous comments read as follows

Abject surrender, Manager put in stocks, Absolutely disgraceful, Piss off Everton, Friggin let down, Disgusting.

Shame on you.

The 10 men left nothing on that pitch. The first substitution was spot on, the second needed but probably Barry not Niasse and the third irrelevant.

So many people have been calling for Mirallas on this site, week-in and week-out. Kone wouldn't have left with us with 10 men for 55 mins. Mirallas is a selfish, all-consuming waste of space who plays for Kevin Mirallas FC – not Everton FC.
Give credit to the 10, chastise the idiot, and balance the manager arguments.

He said a kid about 20 went up to the dugout, and was saying to Graham Jones, "Who is responsible for the defensive duties on this bench? We have got ten men, and youse have brought on a striker for a midfielder."

He said the lad never swore, or even lost his temper, he just questioned how such a decision could be made, and said it would be better if Martinez just left us alone.

So basic, and so basically stupid... Why?

Yes, I know it was a great effort today by 10 men but, for crying out loud, it's not the bloody first time this has happened this season, is it? Time and time again, Martinez's shambolic tactics are to blame and we are being let down.

You might be happy watching an entertaining game but I'm not! I want to win, we have the best calibre of players we've had for a long time and if we had Claudio Ranieri in charge we'd be top of the league right now!

RM will not take us to the next level we all crave – he has to go.

I am fuming!!!!

The 10 men did us proud. Our home form has been down to pure bad luck and shite referees. Mirallas is why our best squad in years are sitting down the table.

All those magnificent home performances without Mirallas negated by the insane decision to pick him. Absolutely nothing to do with Martinez.

I think injudicious substitutions in the last stages of the game let us down. And Mirallas acting like a prize tosser let us down as well.

Most of those on the pitch deserved better and most sweated blood.

Coasting 2-0 then, in typical Martinez idiocy, he changes a team that is coping, more then adequately. Is this man fucking brain-dead or what????

Mirallas booked... take him off, no big deal. No; nothing... in fact, we played better without that dickhead.

So, top and bottom is, once again, the gobshite that's in charge needs kicking out. He is fucking useless. I believe this is the feeling of MOST Evertonians.

He has zero game management about him.

I'm tired of the constant disappointments.

The only reason you take Lennon off is if he was injured or knackered, two-nil up and he puts another forward on who has played very few minutes and looked lost when he started, so it left them one short in defence with ten men on the pitch you could not make it up.

As to the penalty am I surprised no, Lukaku does not normally use power and so it was today a soft tap and save.

I blame the players to an extent but more so on RM subs and managing the game.

I left when number three went in and have not heard so much anger before at a defeat from the supporters leaving the ground, how the manager keeps his job I do not know and if the penalty knocked the stuffing out of them then the run has finished so say good bye to the FA Cup and the game against Arsenal.

I too prefer wins over entertainment (within reason).

The Manager's tactics were spot on for 75 mins. We were two-nil up with 10 men against a very good side.

Why Niasse? I'm not sure. I believe he says his work ethic is a major strength and if so I would have expected more from him in terms of closing down. I kind of see the reason but in no way was it delivered.

Andy #22

Have a beer, fella.

It's not luck, it's not individual players, it's not referees, his tactics, mentality, lack of discipline, bizarre team choices, bizarre substitutions and footballing philosophy have and do not work in the premier league!!!

We very very rarely control a game even when we win. They switched to the commentator on sky when we were 2-0 up and one man down and his first words were "it's open end to end stuff here at Goodison". That is not how you win games in the premier league especially when you're a man down.

He is naïve at best which at our level and after so long managing in the premiere is unacceptable and at worst he is stubborn, arrogant and down right fucking stupid to continue having us play this way.

Whichever it is, if we want to achieve anything he has to go and I pray it's as soon as possible because he is fucking hopeless as a Premier League manager !!!

SACK THE BLOODY LOT OF THEM... BASTARDS!!!!

He would have left us with 10 men for however long he was on the pitch because he's just as useless as Martinez and the rest of the Wigan relegation crew!!!

Like I said it's not just today's game but too many times this season he's got it totally wrong, including his stubbornness over Tim Howard.

He's clueless and that's not a biased opinion but the opinion of many many Blues who have witnessed the ups and downs of our beloved club for decades – me included.

But he is a one-off and this season is one of the most frustrating I can remember; if he is allowed to stay, it is with certainty we would follow Wigan into the Championship

Okay, he got it right today for 75 minutes – if the game was for only 75 minutes then this season I reckon we'd be in the top 4!

Fancy a pint one day to chew the fat? I could do with talking positives rather than negatives for a change.

Fair point really. Cannot disagree with the Howard comment at all, and the 75 min top 4 is an interesting one for the statos to look at. I think he is nearly there though. Great signings and in all honesty a nearly season.

See my thoughts in "The missing link" on this site. I honestly believe we will be top 4 next season, and I said that before the investment.

I'm now off to take my medication!!

Next season will be a genuine relegation scrap. How much more evidence do the board need to see that he is not good enough for Everton FC?

I'm not surprised they are reducing season ticket prices on this form.

STATS don't lie!!!

This is a not-fucking-anywhere season, as was last one. As will the next one be under this clown and the incompetents he has brought with him, steadily slipping down the league.

0-15m 16-30 31-45 46-60 61-75 76-90 1st half 2nd half
4 - 2 13 - 6 9 - 9 8 - 4 4 - 5 13 - 13 26 - 17 25 - 22

Now knowing Bobby like we do, I would suggest he thinks these are good stats, regardless of the outcome of games.

You are kidding right? How is Howard the problem? If he were the problem we wouldn't have lost a two goal lead today, wouldn't have given up a clean sheet to Aston Villa, and wouldn't have been beaten by a header by West Brom. I have stayed away from the Howard comments waiting for Everton to play better teams so that some without blinders on could see that it doesn't matter who the keeper is because the defense is woeful. Sure, against Newcastle and Aston Villa we won but we did that with Howard in goal too. They are crap teams.

Howard is not in goal but we continue to leak soft goals and today blew a two goal lead. It is because the same things are still happening. Crosses being allowed, being outjumped, losing men we should be marking, and standing around doing nothing inside the box. I do not rate Robles, however I have not criticized him due to the fact that it doesn't matter who is in goal. The goals conceded are due to the manager not knowing how to coach or not caring enough how to coach defense.

So are you trying to say you've been pretty non-committal about Tim Howard since he was dropped, and you wanted to watch us play better teams so you could then give an expert appraisal of Joel Robles?!

I must have missed something because nearly every post I've read of yours has had Tim Howard popping up somewhere in it since he was dropped.

I have merely tried to point out that it is the lack of a solid defense in front of the keeper. It doesn't matter who the keeper is as he isn't the problem. If it was Martinez being stubborn and sticking to Howard too long that explained the poor form then changing just that one player should have made the difference. Did it versus West Brom or today?

No, it is the manager stubbornly sticking with his lack of any idea about proper defending or his idea that defending doesn't matter that is the problem. I understand that you cannot seem to accept this simple proposition. Fix the defense and then evaluate the keeper because otherwise anyone in the goal won't be able to stop the goals from coming in.

I don't want Howard back in goal. Ingrates and bumpkins will continue to deride him and improperly make him the scapegoat. I prefer Robles because many of you can't criticize him or gasp, you would be wrong about TIm. I enjoy the discomfort it must cause to some of you. Glad it doesn't stop you from posting about Howard being favored by RM though Gavin. Carry on!

I don't think anyone attributes Tim Howard as the sole problem of our defensive woes. All people can go on is results and we've kept more clean sheets when Joel as had a run in the side. He also comes off his line, distributes the ball better. Isn't afraid of physical contact and doesn't jump like a Starfish.

Let's hope next season we have a keeper who's better than either of them and a manager who is more defensively aware.

For once, we need to show some unified courage as supporters and let the owners know that this ongoing shambles has to end.

Anyone willing to take him would be welcome in my book. Even on a free. Just get rid ASAP. He has cost us big time. AGAIN. He doesn't deserve to wear our badge on his chest. What a fucking disgrace this man is.

Hi, delusional Phil is back.

What is a top 6 squad?

Surely it is one that finishes in the top 6. We will not do that this year, so perhaps we are currently a top 12, 11, 10, 9 or 8 squad. Mark my words, we WILL finish top 4 next season.

Seriously, Martinez will prove to be an Everton legend. Anyone remember the "Sack Kendall" days of 1983 and early 1984? Just thought I'd say it.

Nobody cares about Howard now except his fan boy, Jim.

Jim, I've just read your post again #48 and the last paragraph reads like you're saying you want Robles to fail so you can be vindicated. It's a good job Darren Hind's not read it or else he'd be saying you were a Tim Howard fan first an an Everton supporter 2nd.

I remember those days very well:

1. Expectations for Everton were massively more than they have dwindled to over the past 25 years;

2. Howard inherited a team that finished (I think) 15th and took it to 7th (I think) first year;

3. Howard's team looked progressively more solid, Martinez has us in increasing disarray and dropping down the league year on year, exactly as he relegated Wigan;

4. Howard knew you have to build from the back and make teams solid and hard to beat, Martinez is a fucking idiot. Everton legend FFS

To imply, based on superficial similarities of fans discomfort, that Martinez is somehow in the same bind and in the same league as Kendall is frankly insulting to the memory of the great man, and incidentally to me.

Top 4? Sorry, mate, but yes 'delusional' is the right word. There is nothing you have seen that warrants that statement because there is nothing there – you only think there is.

There are a few things to consider:
1) Our manager is not good enough
2) Out team is not good enough

Since many of our players are international players, barring the unlikely circumstance that the national teams are managed with bad coaches, I'm going to guess #2 is less of the problem and #1 is the problem.

I believe we can hit top 4 (heck Leicester was bottom this time last year), but only if that manager is someone else, someone with experience leading less successful teams to such heights and then staying there. We have quality but not a winning mentality. The way we play with fire (letting WH pound us with those crosses) showed how inflexible we are in dealing with our opposition. That is not a winning mentality.

Jags. You are the fecking skipper for feck's sake. You, too, like Martinez, point fingers at Lukaku who, I'm sorry, was terrific today apart from the blind-bleedingly obvious.

Jags, your defence that you are supposed to marshal in precisely such tight situations as we found ourselves in at 78 mins today, hardly helped us to win the game. Did it, really?

I'm sorry. You are a skipper and in the middle of the defence and Martinez is standing looking on from the sidelines. YOU not Martinez as this particular point is who the players should be looking to for leadership.

You have failed many times to show that leadership and most galling of all – perhaps – is your absence or softness when you need to be barking in the ref's ear, making a case, making a point, getting us known as a team that contests decisions.

You are no Dave Watson.

Like Martinez for the 2nd sub (the 1st was brill so stop saying subs in plural to have a pop people) you – Jags – are to blame for this latest late defeat. Late defeats – when the gaffer is standing at the side – are frequently down to poor and sloppy marshalling ON THE PITCH (at some point, for feck's sake, we have to point fingers at players) and that is your primary responsibility.

I'm not letting Martinez off the hook here and I think, without the embarrassing if not somewhat unthinking vitriol we see on the Live Forum, that Martinez will not survive this new investment summer (even with a cup win).

But we will not get to where we need to be with Jags as skipper. Jags, too, lost us that game today.

But make no mistake, we were magnificent today in all departments – Mirallas excepted – until the Lennon sub.

I, actually, feel optimistic about next season, even if Martinez is in charge.

We are shit, we have been shit all season, we have been shit for 2 full seasons.

Only person to blame is Martinez.

I can't be bothered telling anyone the changes that were needed, but come on, how many times is Martinez going to get it wrong.

Of course you would try to read it that way. That way you can keep on wallowing in your own arrogance and ignorance. Please see all of my posts the last 18 months. I don't want Robles to fail. I don't rate him but he is between the sticks and the current try at #1.

However, the reasons for Howard being blamed will be attributed to Robles. I already saw it on the comments on the Live Forum with him being blamed for one of the goals, unless in England "For FFS Robles" means something different than over here. The point is that you especially with your "Tim pissed in my Wheaties" approach refused to see what was obvious. That RM at Wigan and at Everton fails to require a defense.

You and others took every chance to claim Tim Howard was off form., past it, trash, etc. when maybe he is and maybe he isn't. The point is how can you tell when the defense is so bad? My point was if things didn't change with the addition of Robles then maybe, just maybe, it wasn't the GK but the manager and his disregard for defending who are to blame. See how simple that is Gavin?

For your info Baines is and probably always will be my favorite Everton player, not Howard. He isn't my favorite GK anywhere. But to see him scapegoated by you and others for things not his fault pissed me off. I don't pretend to speak for offensive players as I am a GK coach and player. I will leave it to others to defend Barkley and Lukaku, both of whom I rate highly.

Go take a look at yourself in the mirror Gavin and ask yourself if maybe your dislike of Howard stems from something other than his goalkeeping ability on this team that cannot and will not defend? Perhaps it is his ability to grow a beard that you are jealous of? On second thought, I don't care so carry on Gavin, but know this, I would never root or wish for Everton to lose, even if you were in goal.

Captains are even more important than the man between the sticks. A leader leads by example and we've all seen jags influence as captain on the field. Man city look a different side defensively with Kompany and he was Bought for £4m. Besic should be captain but clubs seem to prefer to hand the band to homegrown talent.

Managers: why dwell on this subject, we need a tactical genius, not an arrogant penis running the show. I like his audacity, but he just doesn't have that knack for knowing how to win. Some people are born with it and Martinez, certainly is not. He needs to go become a youth coach and fill the little kids with positivity and optimism and all that other load of bullshit that comes out of his mouth. We're not as gullible as toddlers and it's really irritating that he can never address when he's at fault.

Conditioning : is there booze in those Gatorade bottles? How the fuck do top quality players in the biggest league in the world start collapsing after 60 minutes? Are they trying to build their stamina up to Ossie's? Or Do they train at his fitness level and call it a day? This is humiliating. When our stamina goes our mind starts to go astray; It's Harder to make decisions and concentrate.

Ruthlessness: I never thought I'd see the day where teams actually enjoyed coming to Goodison. How much more embarrassing for the fans, the players, the managers, and the owners, could this possibly get. We don't instill fear into the opponents when they walk through that tunnel, we give them hope. We're overly friendly, yeah our league is over but with that lazy childish mindset we might as well play all our youths. I've seen a little bit of feistiness but not enough to make a difference. We love to sit back when we're winning and every fucking time the opposition has scored or been unlucky not to. These guys play like how I did in high school: first to 5 goals wins. Except we rarely score 5 and end up shutting off after 2. 90 minutes, make it 95. That's what they should be trained to play for. I was always told never look at the scoreboard, our players play according to the scoreboard. What a pity.

Also wanted to add I love you all, your all very funny, expressive and manage to lighten up my day with your posts. Even after such an abysmal display it did get slightly better thanks to you all. Cheers.

FFS, Jags, blaming it on a penalty miss when we were 2 up with 13mins to go is fucking tongue in cheek stuff. Why not take a look at your department, we are joint top scorers in the Premier League but we still can't seem to put our finger on what the problem is why we are doing so crap – how about WE CAN'T DEFEND.

Phil Jagielka.

Nice bloke, above average defender, half decent in nets.

Captain?

Of a 138-year-old, Premier League football club?

No chance!

Credit to the lads for getting us in front despite that prick Mirallas but to lose in the last 10 minutes AGAIN is down to leadership and organisation, of which we've got NONE.

Martinez Out.

As for Mirallas, I'd never play him again. What a knob.

How can absolutely thousands of fans recognise suicidal substitutions being the problem and you don't?

Roberto's family watching an Everton parade "Look – everybody's out of step except our Roberto."

As I posted in another thread, fall on your sword, Roberto, do the decent thing... but I doubt you will!

Didn't RM have a terrible home record and better away record at Wigan too? I was a (poor) Sunday league centre half and our coach would have been spitting feathers if we let so many crosses into the box knowing I was defending them! Shambolic yet again

After yesterday's debacle I keep having recurring flashbacks of a derby game at Anfield a few seasons ago which we drew.

We were under aerial bombardment from the Reds who just kept pumping balls into our box – and Stubbsy just kept heading them back out.

It was a thing of beauty to behold – if you like that sort of thing.

Hindsight is a great thing I know but we have little leadership if any on the pitch or off at the moment and our Captain & Manager both seem to have their heads buried to it all.

As for the league, I posted back in December that we can forget it and I stick to my prediction of 11th come May. At least people will finally stop talking about Europe, was getting a bit embarrassing to be honest.

Some people saying we'll be top 4 next year, didn't we hear that a year ago? The manager has plain said he does not believe in closing a game out so basically the opposition still have a shout right to the end. As long as we have that mentality, we will never grind out results, which is something good teams need to be able to do.

Won't bother going into details on the game, simple fact is we've lost 7 home games in the league now, out of 15. Bad luck, refs, red cards, missed pens... we've had pretty much every excuse under the sun but some people can't see what's in front of them. The team just cannot defend for 90 mins. Conceded 50-odd goals last season and we're on course to beat that this season.

The top teams of the past used to have defenders that would be gutted whenever they didn't keep a clean sheet, even if they won the game. I see absolutely no sign of that kind of steel in this side. Every time the ball gets in our third, the whole crowd gets nervous. If the fans feel that, what must the players be feeling?

So Chelsea in the cup next then the Arse at home, looks like the season will be over come Easter, de ja vu.

Top 4 next season... mmmm, April 1st is till a few weeks off.

There are also technical and tactical issues with how this team is set up that have been glaring for 18 months, but RM is too incompetent, stubborn or dumb to address them. We over-commit the full-backs in attack, always play out of defence even when it's not in, cannot defend crosses or corners and always get too stretched. The balance of this team is all wrong.

We have a golden opportunity with a decent young squad and hopefully significant investment. How many fans trust RM to make the most of that? He is an over-promoted academy boss who got his team relegated before he joined us. He must not be manager next season.

It was the last match before Xmas, so I got a lot longer this season than last, because Sunderland away, which was early November was when I gave up the previous season!

Have a feeling we could get our revenge against The Hammers in the cup, but we have got to beat Chelsea to do that. Lose next week and all those saying Martinez, is safe will surely be wrong.

The reason being, is that too many people are fed up, so I think you might see a crowd of under 28,000, if Everton, are left with nothing left to play for after next week.

How many of us really enjoy going to Goodison at the minute?

Manager / referee / player – for me he was totally ineffectual yesterday – I want a LEADER on the pitch. We do not have one. Certainly not Jagielka.

As for Martinez... why don't you just go now? Bill, please, come on, you love EFC like we do... Put Joe Royle in charge till end of season.

To the new owners, please line up a new manager now... Koemam, Hiddink, even Moyes

To the players (Aaron Lennon excluded) – You lot are a DISGRACE!!!

Regarding the goalkeeping debate, there is an old saying in football. "A goalkeeper is only as good as his defence".

Overall the ref was pretty poor. It was a great game of football, credit to WHU for the way they kept going and literally scored from 3 chances after being under the pump for most of the game.

We had the chances to bury them not withstanding a very poor penalty. Need a new manager to instill professionalism at all levels. I can't see it with RM.

Of course some players said the training regime eased a lot when the I.O. took over three years, but what do they care? The new boss is a soft touch, work gets a whole lot easier, pay's the same, happy days!

Other clubs won't tolerate this. Amongst most other managers Pochettino and Ranieri make their players work their bollocks off for the entire match (and Klopp's behaving this way too). Vermaelin, the ex-Arse lad now at Barca, says he can't believe the work demanded by their manager in training because it's gigantic, for everyone including their phenomenal stars. The prick we have worships at Barca's altar but the concrete needed to construct it has gone completely unnoticed by him.

That's totally unacceptable. We needed him gone ages ago.

Yesterday, they were knackered because they had to cover for (a) the loss of Mirallas and (b) the total absence of any meaningful chasing by Ross.

Yes, great team spirit that is, to implicitly blame Lukaku for the loss. Rom must be spitting chips. That's how we hold onto him after this season? Agree, with what you say, Craig.

The blue room a few weeks ago said exactly the same thing about Spurs and Bournemouth and how they run through brick walls to pressure the ball including the centre-forwards.

But Martinez doesn't expect it of his star players!

Too many things obvious to us fans are simply not registering with Roberto. 3 years into his philosophy and we've only gone backwards.

He can certainly spot a player..... But when he's got them he hasn't got a clue what to do with them.

Nice bloke but he could take us down if he's left to continue with his philosophy!

I have to agree with you. Week after week I see both Rom and Ross strolling around once we have lost possession. It is unacceptable in today's game at the top level. Look at Klopp or Pochettino's philosophies. They demand that ALL of their players work their socks off at all times to retrieve the ball. Ross may have the "leg break" on his mind, but he can at least harry and close people down. Why is this never addressed?

What does our defensive coach do? Defense starts with the forwards (but apparently not in our case – Lennon and Mirallas excepted). He doesn't appear to be working on set pieces either so what exactly is his utility?

What he doesn't mention is the sub. He really should but he cannot. That would be open rebellion.

He's been with us since 2007 as have Baines and Osman much longer so I wish these senior players would tell it like it is.

When you're the captain of a side working like crazy to keep the opposition out and your front men have a spot kick to put away to remove the pressure and miss it, I can see why he mentions it.

But he should have referenced the sub.

Spurs fans with short memories naturally.

Fortunately the Hammers fans are more humble!

"We've won the league twice...well three times..."

WTF? They have won it twice. We've won the league 9 times...well 9 times...it's a simple answer.

Thank God someone is pointing out that up and until the Lennon substitution Roberto got everything beautifully spot on. His subs, change of shape, moving Lennon up by Rom, everything. It was in-game adjustments, a certifiable "Plan B" exemplified by Roberto.

Until that sub...

I will state in the interests of full disclosure, I said on the Live Forum I actually thought the Niasse for Lennon substitution at the time was a good one. Roberto had moved Lennon up top by Rom and he had ran, ran some more, then ran again. He had to be out of gas and I think fresh legs with an eager new recruit were perfect for that like-for-like substitution positionally and at that point in the game.

Turns out I, and Roberto, were massively, massively wrong. One of the reasons I cheer from the barstool and don't manage a football club...

But what "happy-go-lucky-chat-away-yuk-it-up-in-the-tunnel" Jags is missing here, while blaming another player (!!!!!), is that as captain and the senior presence in the back line: he is as responsible for this ridiculous loss as anyone.

Singling out Rom for missing the penalty is frankly disgusting in the extreme. Here's a novel fucking idea Phil Jagielka - get in the ear of anyone allowing a cross to come in uncontested and maybe, just maybe, stand up and take responsibility for the pathetic attempts by yourself to head the ball out of danger when said cross comes into the box.

Oh... and I hope someone just cold-clocks Kevin Mirallas! At 11 men we win that game blindfolded!

Roberto - assuming he has a job - needs to put the big boy pants on and never play Mirallas again and ship him out immediately. I love watching the guy play, but he's not a team player. He's self-absorbed in the extreme - the footballing equivalent of Donald Trump.

And Jags is Neville Chamberlain - grow a sack and go to war already!

"Oh look, a cross into my area... isn't that pretty?"

Still not over this one...

Also probably already mentioned, but did anyone see the tunnel before the WBA-Man Utd match? Two captains, Fletcher and Carrick, with a shitload more history than Jagielka and Noble, standing up straight, concentrating, and not having a laugh or even acknowledging each other. That is the decorum we should be getting from the captain of Everton FC.

If there's one aspect of some Evertonians that I would like to see removed completely, it is when they totally besmirch the character of a player(s) who have given their best for the club, even if their best was limited. For a player to be totally dismissed as a 'coward' or gobshite or some other inappropriate name, a player would have to leave the club and join the other lot as did Barmby for example. But to label the likes of Jags, Howard and Neville yes even Neville in such a way is unseemly. It isn't / wasn't their fault that they were selected to Captain the club or that they may have been playing past their prime.

It has been a bad trait of some Evertonians for as long as I have supported the club and it totally undermines all of the 'people's club' and amazingly understanding supporters that most of the clubs fans adhere to, but there are a significant proportion of Evertonians who should have a look in the mirror and ask themselves if their comments are really justified or just plain mean and nasty.

As a captain, I maintain he is and always has been a coward. I cannot remember him ever once getting stuck into a ref during a match and every Everton supporter knows he's overseen plenty of instances when he would have been justified in doing so. I know some supporters dislike the approach of getting stuck into the ref, but very often it is the difference between winning and losing, and I'm sick of seeing Everton accepting defeat the way they have been for far too long.

All the players should be blaming the defenders for every loss this season and previous one. And Roberto should be relieved of his duty right now, any manager who is incapable of making a right sub should not be managing.

So that means another home defeat then, does it???

Mirallas was not sent off in any of the previous SEVEN other times that Martinez's Everton meekly surrendered a two-goal lead this season.