Mayor still confident on deliverability of new Everton stadium

DOCKS pls

One seems like a dream, whereas the other seems like a very realistic opportunity, given that the council, want to give Everton the land.

I'd sooner keep dreaming for now though, because moving along the East Lancs, just doesn't feel right, when we have a chance of a ground, on the banks of the royal blue Mersey.

Just can't see a stadium we all want clearing planning on the waterfront or building the road infrastructure to cope with a 50,000-seater stadium, all inside a two-year framework.

If anyone from inside the industry thinks differently, please inform me otherwise?

Maybe that's what they were discussing? But no way could we be "on the waterfront" in 2/3 years.

I'm still dreaming though, especially since the council want to invest in new ferryboats, and I don't think it would be that hard to put up another new railway station between Moorfields and Sandhills!

If Liverpool want the Commonwealth games and this stadium is to be at the core of its bid; it simply must be on the Docks.

The club cannot miss this second chance.

Please please please be the docks.

It's not just building the roads that is the issue, these can be built whilst construction goes on, they only need a base laid to get construction traffic in and out, which is then topped when final finishes applied, however, the sticking point maybe the adoption of the roads after, the council may not want the extra expense.

If the club is considering the docks then it has a lot of negotiating to do and of course a two year timeframe is impossible. Anderson could well be trying to talk up Stonebridge because he thinks it would be of more benefit to the City by regenerating an area which otherwise will not attract investment whilst if we don't go to the docks some form of regeneration will inevitably take place there in the future.

Moshiri does not appear to be a man who conducts his business in the gaze of the public and I suspect the first we will really know about this is when whatever the deal is has been done. A two year timescale is unrealistic in any event- wherever we end up I can't see Moshiri doing it on the cheap as the new stadium is the bedrock of his investment and will generate the return on his money which a businessman seeks and I can't see him settling for a quick and cheap option.

I'd ignore what Anderson is saying and just regard it as a promising sound bite but with no real substance until the main man ie..Moshiri has spoken

The Emirates stadium was completed in a time scale between Feb 04 - July 06. A total of 30 months.

These new stadiums are pre built elsewhere and then pieced together on site. The hardest part, in my opinion is probably digging the foundations out. Obviously the inner construction i.e. seating, concourses etc would take some time, but again, all the concrete slabbing is already made and brought in. Working 24/7 and this could easily be done in less than three years.

The new bridge over the river Mersey will be completed in autumn 2017. Work on this started in May 2014. A total of just over three years. Not sure how long this new bridge is, but to complete this in a short time scale is some going.

A new stadium should be a piece of cake!!

Which of us didn't know Koeman was his man and he wants Walsh to work with him ?

But why should he need to operate in secret anyway ?

Like Rob (30) i think it can be done and point out that, in terms of time scale, the construction work on the 42 acre Liverpool One site started in Autumn 2004 and the first occupant moved into the site in July 2006. With the will, enough money and 'fast track' planning permission that comes with being part of the EZ a stadium could be built in two/three years.

Could have been another one underneath, but please don't try and fucking nail us, to the Stonebridge cross.

Brilliant.

Evertonians in a nut shell that.

It sounds to me as though a site at Stonebridge Cross is ready and waiting, but all 3 men would prefer a more glamorous Dockland site. So this is more of a "Come on Peel Holdings, it's now or never, if you want a prestigious stadium on your land then cut a deal".

Peel Holdings have been around for a long time, they tend to play things at their pace. But then again, I suspect the current queue of potential occupiers of this dockland location is pretty short.

>They unearthed old sewerage that they didn't know existed. Had to install over a thousand outlet pipes to give off methane gas over a 30-year plan. The ground had old earthworks which kept collapsing and the headaches grew and grew.

The Croxteth plan needs shelving and I am all for rioting if Anderson wants it there. Anyway until I read Steve's strawberry-pissing post at #7, I was really excited, so please, Steve, join us just for a moment so we can dream. What you say is right and proper but I would love it (to quote the permed one), I would love it if it was on the waterfront with one seat more than Anfield – or better still, 20,000 and 1 more seats. We need to be back to where we where when all this started. The only team in Liverpool.

I was also on a big housing project at the top of Low Hill, where the only problem was that the builders got the plan 90 degrees out. I was one of the group who was sent out to move the boundary posts secretly when the council surveyors turned up.

I don't think anyone has any idea how long it takes to build anything. I found all this very useful when I went on to study philosophy at Edinburgh and can give a plausible argument in favour of nearly anything.

I suppose it depends on the builders we use, maybe Mr Moshiri and Bill "live an kickin" Kenwright will use that Manc fella off Cowboy Builders, loft conversations with double extensions all done in a week for 10k. Melinda Messenger can flash her tits around Ryan's plumbing for some free urinal troughs.

The man can't stop the press from speculating, and let's face it, Koeman was a pretty obvious choice in any event. The point I was making was that, regardless of what Anderson might say, it is only when Moshiri makes a statement that we should really get excited.

If Peel don't allow the docks, the old Garden Festival site has planning for housing and leisure but no retail. There's a viable alternative.

No loyalty in football, I agree, but I'm sure when Steve Walsh was a player, Everton were still one of the biggest clubs out there, so let's hope history can start repeating itself again!

We can dream but for me it just isn't going to happen.

BK is merely the second in command, the onlooker.

The Council want it to be Stonebridge Cross; give over dead land for serious long term revenues. I'm a cynic but why hand that opportunity to Peel Holdings?

I think Moshiri wants the Docks too, he's just playing nice with Anderson along the way. Hopefully.

Link

Announcement - Oct 1996
Construction commenced - Oct 1997
First match - March 2000.

Melbourne at that time was one of the hardest places in the world to build due to industrial relations.

I think Farhad Moshire wants the best for the long term future of the club and the fans. I live in the hope that he and his associates will find a way to make it happen.

I have worked in the construction industry and if the will (and onsite bonuses) is there, plus the weather is kind, it could be done in 3 years, or a bit less. I feel more confident with our new owner running the show and not Mr Showbiz - if it was up to him, we'd probably end up in a cowfield outside Winsford, or groundsharing with Tranmere

3) Crocky / DK Mk II - by 10 lengths.

Don't rush it, be rushed into it to fit an unrealistic time frame.

If it takes 4+yrs. - Do it Once, DO IT RIGHT.

It still is mate, I've done shutdowns there and they don't come out the sheds if it's raining !!

So with a bit of contingency I'd say 3 years AFTER site all tied up and agreements in place.

I doubt very much anything has changed in his eyes. As long as Kenwright is the mouthpiece of Everton, that door is closed.

Crocky here we come.... maybe. (Of course the corollary is that, with Kenwright still being involved, there's a better-than-even chance it won't happen.)

Brian #8, Peel would presumably need planning permission for anything they build and maybe LCC could advise them that for a stadium there would be no opposition?

If the docks don't happen, the Crocky site will. If so, make it bigger than the Red Shite so we visiting supporters who are coming to the city via the East Lancs, they will see a jewel and then piss themselves when they see Anfield in a complete shithole. No way out for the Red Shite forever in a dump with scruffs, smackheads and ale boffs...

As the Crocky site would be on the left of traffic as they come off the motorway, what a sight it would look... Again the docks is my preference but I won't not the other gaff – better than Kirkby! COYB

It's gotta be the docklands, no question.

The specifics, eg, Corporate boxes etc, can be finalised as the build takes shape, but again there will be some guide based on where those designs have been used previously.

Instead of walking around Walton in and out of shit hole pubs on a hot summers day, we can be strolling around water front venues or sitting outside on a waterfront terrace.

I know we are all there for the football, but a nice bit of scenery and the smell of the docks instead of Walton KFC all adds to the day, especially with returning away fans.

Good business for the QSs and claims specialists then!

I'm sure they could get round this in the end with a new ferry terminal, and train station, amongst the options (for park & ride) but the East Lancs would obviously be a much easier ground to get to by road.

A ground on the East Lancs Road would have very little soul in comparison to the waterfront, though, and would be a much harder ground to get to for most of the people who don't travel to the game by car.

Fans will get to wherever the stadium is and one on the outskirts may be easier for some fans than one in the city.I would rather a 10-out-of-10 stadium in a less glamorous location that can ensure big upturns in matchday revenue and others for years to come, than a 7-out-of-10 stadium in prime location.

Of course, in an ideal world, you could have the best of both but, in my experience, you usually have to compromise on something when house-hunting.

It would seem, based on Joe Anderson's excited statement, that he was clearly enthused and seems really optimistic.... why issue such a statement if he wasn't? (Putting the mayoral thing to one side for the moment...)

So, where is the new home gonna be? I would suggest that if this 2-year deliverability thing is possible, it would almost certainly be Stonebridge? Now, like everyone else, I hope I'm wrong.

Personally I would like to see a spectacular phased redevelopment of Goodison Park – that's not gonna happen. It therefore must be the North Docks. Given that Peel Holdings and not the Corporation own that site, the only thing that could be concluded in 2 years is the purchase, rent or lease of the land from Peel, the drawing up and submission of plans for the stadium and surrounding infrastructure, not taking account of any local objections or subsequent public enquiries. Perhaps the Stonebridge site could be faced with similar issues? Though, I suspect Joe is already using his substantial influence to "fast track" it through the bureaucratic channels.

To conclude, not that he needs my advice, it's don't fall for Joe's blag, Farhad. It's the waterfront or nothing! You can even name it after yourself.... roll on to the "Mosh Pit"!

I love the fact, that County Road gives us an identity that the other crowd don't seem to have, and to be anywhere along that Road when Everton have won a big game is always a lovely happy occasion.

I was driving along it before the Bellow fight and my misses was saying, "What's going on here?" It was hot and sunny, and everyone was outside the boozers, enjoying themselves.

"Bellow's fighting," I said. It did make me proud to see the way Evertonians take over that road, and it is definitely a big part of our heritage.

That is why The Docks, is imperative to me, because Stonebridge Cross would take away too much soul, and this has always been one of Everton Football Club's greatest ever assets.

As for the mayor's 2-year timescale, I don't think it's a 2-year project or nothing, so no need to be on about: "No way it can't be built in that time" or "Yes, way it can."

I'd be happy with moving into a shiny new stadium on the waterfront in 3/4 years. Even though, if it's going to happen, it'll happen a lot sooner. Moshiri doesn't seem to be the type of man to take things slow.

You have to realise, mate, I'm from a very exclusive part of the city (Kensington L6); this may be were my snobby views come from.... Haha

Jokes aside, if we can't stay at Goodison, then why not go down the luxury route instead of putting us in no man's land? Taking over County Road is one thing, but ruling the town centre sets a bigger precedence.

We have been the second team in the city for too long; a dock stadium near Liverpool 2 would put us right in the mixer for the millions of tourists our city have every year.

Unfortunately, tourists travel to Anfield for a tour and some souvenirs etc, whereas most barely acknowledge our existence.

Take us to the docks, Farhad!

Somewhere like Wembley is in a fairly unglamorous location London-wise but is still used for concerts/events non-stop because of what it provides. Same with the O2 in a way though obviously it is riverside.

If its a great stadium fit for multi purpose then I'd say that's better than a mediocre stadium in a good spot (like Stamford Bridge).

I did send a link to a LinkedIn profile to Lyndon of a guy that was working on the facelift of Goodison and was also advisor of the waterfront stadium a couple of weeks ago, if Lyndon remembers.

Our glorious city helped build and shape this country and we were innovating whilst our lovely cockney barrow boys mates in the south thought selling roasted chestnuts was genius. (Sorry, I live in Essex and too many think they created the UK.)

Derek Wilson Of WilsonOwensOwens: His Summary off LinkedIn:

Stadiums and Grandstands

Goodwood Racecourse
Turf Moor, Burnley FC
John Smiths Stadium, Huddersfield Town FC, Huddersfield Giants & Kirklees Council
Macron Stadium, Bolton Wanderers FC
Emirates Stadium, Arsenal FC
Croke Park, Dublin for GAA
Le Havre FC New Stadium
AFC Wimbledon New Stadium
Waterfront, Goodison Park & advisor to Everton FC
Perth Stadium

Events

Sydney 2000
Turin 2006
Delhi 2010
London 2012
Sochi 2014
Glasgow 2014
England 2015
Baku 2015
Baku Euros 2020
Rome 2020
Super Bowl 2005 - 2014

Advisory

Sports Ground Safety Authority - Board member
Advisory Group on Temporary Structures
Spectator Facilities standards for BSi and Cen

Their Company Website : http://wilsonowensowens.com

I won't put his personal LinkedIn page on as it is not fair and he might get a few hundred views and it will freak him out.

Croxteth for me will mean 'mehh, why bother?'

The dock (ie: being part of the city skyline) would put a pogo-jump sized spring in my step and I'm guessing in the step of every Evertonian in the world (and in an instant makes the other shower look like the hillbillies and bad wools they are).

North Docks: 1 mile from the city centre, prestigious waterfront location, close to Sandhills Station and possible new station at Vauxhall, reasonable road access to most parts of the city including the tunnels. Also leaves LFC standing out of sight at Anfield.

The only choice for Mr Moshiri.

The Stonebridge Cross site is right on the East Lancs Road on a fairly quiet section between Croxteth and Kirkby. It is just off the M57 motorway which is as everyone knows linked to all the major routes surrounding the city.

The land is classed as a Brownfield site which the council own and would love to put to good use would be sold for cheap or even for free to allow the regeneration of the surrounding area of Croxteth.

I myself even though living in Kirkby want us to build on the grand waterfront setting of the docks and be part of the city's skyline, but as I've said above and as has recently been proven by Bill and the board the will go wherever is cheapest and easiest!

The site on the Dock, for all its waterfront location and prestige, only has one major route by car which is the strand what is already packed every Saturday and is on private owned land which would most definitely cost more to purchase.

Another point is, if it goes to a vote, which it has in the past, Kirkby and the surrounding areas of North Liverpool are saturated with Evertonians who would no doubt vote for the Stadium to be built down the road from where they live.

Me thinks Croxteth will rise to the top as a more practical option. Moshiri may or may not listen to supporters but you can guarantee he will base his decision on a business basis, as at the end of the day, that is what he is.

On a final note, I don't expect a Kenwright-style vote on the new proposed stadium; Moshiri will make a decision and stick to it, regardless of supporters' views.

I haven't been up to the ground over summer. How is the cladding project coming along?

In answer to the location question, we had a once in a lifetime opportunity to transform the fortunes of our club by getting a prestigious waterfront development and we blew it. With hindsight, it looked a catastrophic decision. We now have the only opportunity we will ever have to put Everton FC back where it belongs. Please, Mr Moshiri, don't blow it over transport links and escalating costs. This isn't just a star striker for a few seasons, it is a decision which could reap benefits for our football club for generations.

For those saying it will be more money, you needn't worry. It's not your money so fret not. He is not going to scrimp. We will not only have the best stadium in Liverpool but the best stadium in the North West.

Pointless arguing over timescales, it's going to happen and, quite frankly, if it's ready to walk into within 3-5 years, I would be one happy blue. It's all about being better than the rest. It's his toy. Let him play with it.

Tony if you have ever been to Fairfield, you would really get to grips with some 'snobs'.

I mean these people have their own L7 village and their own park, while us riff-raff in L6 have a Lidl with a car park... ;-).

Who on here believes we are involved in a €50m bid for Koulibaly?

I believe we have funds, and I believe Stones may go to Man City, but I just can't see this deal happening.

A €50m defender as our first signing!?!

Timescales do seem optimistic especially bearing in mind the infrastructure that will be needed but I'm really interested in Joe's tweets this afternoon where he is pushing for the dock.

If they can tie the two land owners together it could be a fantastic opportunity not only for the blues but for the city.

John you say,

"recently been proven by Bill and the board the will go wherever is cheapest and easiest!"

Surely that is the OLD board with the old set of rules? Do you think Mr Moshiri has the same mindset as Kenwright? I don't. Further more I'm sure he can see through Bill's flowery prose and will make his own mind up about things without having to take much notice of Bill, a fading power with declining influence if ever we saw one.

Current odds..

Army Batman - 6/1

Gentleman's Gentleman - 12/1

Feller in posh hotel bogs who brushes your jacket with a clothes brush while asking 'has sir had a nice day?' - 20/1

Shoe-shine boy - 50/1.

Manager of Everton using the alias 'David Moyes' - 100/1

Someone who doesn't like to part with money. Not even his money FFS.

Also, he seems a man determined to make a splash as well so my money is on the docks. It will make the shite's new construction look like my old man's loft conversion.

I used to like drinking at the top end, towards the Royal Hozzy, when I was a kid, but like a lot of places, there doesn't seem like there's anything left now.

I used to also walk through Kenny, on my way home from school sometimes, and the place used to have a real Scouse identity, but there's not much of that left now.

Things change, not always for the better, especially if you look at things like Lewis, who thinks we are all vain, and have a big inferiority complex, just because we want a stadium on the docks?

It used to be a good place to have a little bar crawl along, popping in and out of the locals, bumping into the locals who could range from the everyday scouser to out and out barn pots (all harmless).

Its desolated now though, the smoking ban was the start of the end in Kenny I think, that with the prices of supermarket ale.

Nothing left but chippys an takeaway pizza gaffs.

Crocky, definitely deserves better (The Oyster, who have won the national cup 3 times in recent years, don't even have a proper changing facility) but I think we would both agree that the best thing for Everton would be Clarence Dock.

Lewis might be right in saying its a pipe-dream, but an iconic stadium on the docks is something I'm sure a lot of Toffees are dreaming about!

Simple pass/fail test... If Yes, then simply we go in that direction... If No, we are looking at good access from the M57 as much as that will inspire any of us.

Maybe a good time for someone to start looking for commercial pressure points in Peel's projects that a local fanbase / consumer base could influence?

I can't remember the exact figures but Liverpool is now one of the most popular tourist destinations in the UK and to have the chance to showcase our club in such a prestigious location will not happen again.

I shudder every time I see the Echo Arena and think of what might have been. What a location that was for us and the chance to have something similar was always the stuff of dreams... compare that to an unwanted plot near the M57.

What's an Army Batman? I'm guessing it's funny, but I've never heard the joke and I'd love to be able to reuse it myself.

My point in #104 was not that we should "know our place" and "be satisfied with our lot", as you took it. I was really saying that our reasons for wanting a new stadium by the river seem a bit superficial and misplaced.

We want to "send a message" that we're "back", and we want to rub the other lot's noses in it saying "look at our new stadium, it's by the river!!".

My point was that, if it's less cost-effective, then those reasons seem pretty silly to me. I know we're not spending my money, but I want our club to be run soundly and be as big a success as possible. We shouldn't let hearts rule heads every time – is really what I'm saying.

I'm an accountant by the way, but I'm also an Evertonian.

It has nothing to do with Gotham City....though, just for clarity, in an army context the fictional 'Alfred' would be the fictional Bruce Wayne's batman.

In 1985 we beat Bayern Munich. Now I know one cup game (tie in that case) doesn't define you as being better than another team but we were closer to the likes of them than we are now. But that doesn't mean we can't be again.

Clearly there are differing views as to why we missed the Premier League gravy train however in general a combination of the tragedy of Heysels and poor off-field management starting with Dr David Marsh (classic rest on your laurels mentality) has combined to put us where we are today. I always start there because whilst many point to the Johnson debacle and Bill's reign, for me, that is when the near irreversible rot set in and damage was done.

We have an opportunity; I know it's hard for a generation that has grown up having their hopes dashed, expectation effectively extinguished and belief shattered, whilst listening to romantics / lunatics (delete as appropriate) rant about us in the same breath as Manchester United and Bayern Munich.

The remarkable thing is, we are still, within reason, in touching distance of the pack. Why? Because we are are a footballing institution and have been able to absorb decades of mediocracy because of our history, heritage and wonderful fan base. Not many clubs could do that; similar in a way to Manchester United not winning a title for 25 years and suffering relegation in the interim (1968 - 1993).

We are big; we will always be big. Believe,because our time will come again.

There's no rush to get it done, where did this two-year crap come from? The main thing is getting it right, both in scale and design.