Moyes's bold claim on the eve of Everton reunion

Yeah, Maradona at his best.

Then I would buy into this claim.

After two sackings, the wee man is trying to rebuild his battered reputation. Let's make it a hat-trick for the fella.

Then the goal's dried up!

We finished 4th with a Championship striker up top, Marcus Bent, plus we finished 5th a number of times with Anichebe, Vellios, Beatie, and Stracqualursi up top.

Swap any of these for a Suarez or Torres from the Red Shite's side (a £20m striker), and surely we would be 10-20 points better off.

We wouldn't have won the league, but would that not be challenging?

Maybe he could have spent the Beattie and Davies money on a decent striker?

Surely his marvellous thorough scouting network could have found a good up and coming striker as others' have?

Was unlucky with Yakubu's injury, though.

Still, all grist to the mill in his latest 'I would have been great but for lack of money' nonsense that is unfortunately pedalled by too many on here.

Having said that, I will always be grateful for what he did, his arrival was a breath of fresh air that blew away the cobwebs of the Walter Smith and Kendall Mk 3 eras and saved us from potential oblivion. Shame that he seemed to let it all go to his head

Not a chance with Moyes in charge though, He literally ruined every single forward who played for him (except Saha who was already broken when he arrived).

A good manager with limitations. Exposed the moment there were any expectations here and exposed when he had a big budget and genuine expectations at Man Utd.

I can't hate a man who delivered me a four-figure sum!

Okay, Ginge, I'm on board – it must have been the lack of a striker!

Regardless of what the truth is, Moyes is right that 25 goals from a top striker would have put us right up there in some of his seasons in charge. Whether Aguero or Suarez would have been able to get 25 goals in a Moyes team at that point is a different story.

The only thing we were ever close to with Moyes in charge was a dammed good thrashing every now and again.

You can tell Moyes was a centre-half because he hates strikers – he inherited a title winning front line at Man Utd and made them look like yard dogs.

He's coming across as a very bitter man who realised like many that after Everton it just doesn't get any better.

He's starting to sound like Carl Froch with his 80,000 fans at Wembley nonsense.

A cup would have done! Any cup. The League Cup, FFS, for the first time in our history – would have people on here defending you all day long!

11 years. Not a thing.

3-0 at home to Wigan. I will NEVER forgive you for that.

You're a bottler. A choker who will only ever compare to Fat Sam and the likes. You love a ground out draw. A nil-nil and you're dancing down the tunnel.

Rant over.

Thing that makes his statement unfathomable twaddle though was what actually happened. We had no depth. We lost Jags, Arteta and then Yak and had nothing in reserve to backfill. We needed a damnsight more than just a top drawer striker as history actually demonstrated.

As another comment on here says, imagine a Torres upfront with the squad we had, or even a Lewandowski when he was earmarked for a move to Blackburn before the Icelandic ash clouds put paid to the move. This site doesn't give Moyes the credit he deserves. It took a season and a half for one man to undo all of Moyes's 10 years of work, yet the fans are so ready to lambast him.

I feel as if people have forgotten what the 1990s and early 2000s looked like for Everton. Football is all ifs and buts, but you've got to acknowledge the context of this comment, coming just four months after a Leicester side, no more talented than a Moyes Everton team, won the league.

Give the guy a break, I see on here enough about the 'Everton way' and manner of business, and this bitterness towards David Moyes certainly isn't attractive or beneficial. Good luck at Sunderland, after tonight that is.

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I was one date away from marrying Charlize Theron back in 2005.

It's bad enough suffering at the hands of one delusional fool (a la Roberto) but to have two recent managers in charge of affairs at Goodison makes me wonder did we run over twenty black cats?

He stabilised us at a time we needed it, and made us hard to beat on a number of occasions, but Jesus, he comes out with some shit.

If you were a Sunderland fan, you could find yourself in a very deep depression very soon.

Where's the inspiration Davie?

But the guy – and to be fair to him, the 'visionaries' upstairs – collectively weren't positive or imaginative enough to do what was required. In that sense, Martinez was a breath of fresh air when he joined.

Nice one

People forget we finished 5th in 2008-09 with 63 points despite Yakubu being unavailable from November onwards, Anichebe being unavailable from February onwards, and Saha constantly having to be managed through his various niggling injuries. We only scored 55 goals that season. Another 10 or 15 would certainly have had us in contention.

In the final 7 seasons of the Moyes era, our average finishing position was between 6th and 7th despite only once reaching 60 goals in a season. A top quality striker would have given us the edge in some of the many matches which were drawn – 66 in the final 5 seasons under Moyes.

It smacks of a guy whose career has gone drastically backwards.

When I saw the content of the thread, my concern was a little different.

I thought 'Hmm, I don't like the look of this, there's a good chance this thread could attract those who, Daily Mail-style, lazily add 'brigade' to describe two or more posters who won't see things the way they do.'

Maybe I'm sensitive because as a member of the PC brigade, I was told by my brigade leader that I couldn't be in the Moyes out brigade at the same time.

Personally, I can't stand those who demand we pay for a service to extinguish large blazes and rescue cats from trees - bloody fire brigade..brigade.

Moyes has made a statement saying if we'd had a decent striker, we'd have been challenging for the league. I completely agree with him.

Who was the manager at the time? Who spent (at the time) big money for three strikers? Who could have shipped out players he rarely played to make room for a better striker?

It's nothing to do with hate, it's about pointing a few inconvenient things out.

I don't hate him, I just think he was extremely over-rated and benefited from what went before him and a lack of ambition within the club and fanbase.

Good luck to him after tonight.

I'd be mortified if everything Koeman said had some sort of reference to his 'glory days' at Southampton. I bet every story Moyes ever says now begins with... "This one time, at Everton..."

For those of you who think he has a valid point... that he did just need a top striker and he could have "challenged" – it would have made absolutely no difference.

The man had a footballing philosophy that made strikers "sacrificial" for the greater good of the team.

This is why it made no difference if Marcus Bent or Wayne Rooney played up front for him. All he wanted from a striker was to create space for the likes of Tim Cahill or Fellaini. One season we had a decent return from a striker under him and that was Yaks first one where he actually used Johnson as a foil.

Good strikers were wasted on him, it would be like buying a Ferrari for someone who used his car to tow a caravan.

"You were struggling at the bottom of the Premier League
When I met you
I picked you out, I shook you up
And turned you around
Turned you into something new
Now three years later on you've got the world at your feet
Success is on the horizon for you
But don't forget it's me who put you where you are now
And I can put you back down too.

Don't. Don't you want me?
You know I can't believe it when I hear that you won't see me
Don't. Don't you want me?
You know I don't believe you when you say that you don't need me"

Etc.

Instead of telling him that he's "a phenomenal Belgian Diamond in the embryonic stages of world class career with the ability to demonstrate his personality out on the pitch"

It'd have been:

"Right son If you work hard, hit the sand dunes, put a shift in the right wing for 6 months to prove yourself, ye can have Vic's place up front."

Back to West Brom he goes!

I admitted I was dead wrong, Link he apparently can't.

I believe his confidence has been smashed by his utter failures at his last 2 jobs and he's putting on this false front, and having had a look at one or two of the Sunderland forums, some their fans are already pissed off with his constant negative comments and his damping down of expectations.

You know kind of like if only I had a top striker, if only they gave me more money, if only Man Utd gave me more time, if only Sociaded had Messi and Suarez... always a built-in excuse and blame something or someone else for failure.

Want a dose of reality? Go to his Wiki page and scroll down to his honours to see what his teams have actually won as a manager AND player, you could write it on the back of a fucking postage stamp and still have plenty of room left, but hey, if only eh!

Now, it's fair to say that Moyes has been well and truly exposed. Didn't Moyes get sacked by the wealthiest club on the planet? They had strikers surely?

Get the penknife out, Davey, the AK-47s are in town tonight.

But hey oh yet another false alarm...

He spent £24m on Bilyaletdinov and Fellaini, two players who didn't even know their proper position, never mind Moyes having the foggiest.

He spent £7.5m on Jelavic, christened him his 'silent assassin' and said he was Davor Sukor reincarnated, just with the face of Dobby the House Elf and a six month expiry date.

He had money to buy a decent striker. He just never did. 

Some he opted for were nowhere near good enough to start with, some flattered to deceive, others were misused whilst here. Whatever the reason, all are right there in the Bad Buys Brigade after failing to rip shit up.

Hopefully Koeman can be even better than a marrying of the two extremes, overly dour Davie, and overly positive Roberto, and produce a season like that first transitional one of Roberto's.

When you look at the 70-point side, the team we have now are all better than what we had then (bar Baines who had a poor season that year , Oveido baby, and Barry who was only just past his prime back then).

I'd take the keepers now over then, Coleman should be hitting his prime now, Young Stones is akin to Holgate; Jags, Williams and Funes Mori are better than Ditsin, Jagielka and Alcaraz; midfield is better, Barkley is better, the wings have more, and Lukaku is better.

Only flip side is I think everyone else in this money rich league is better than they were back then.

I remember the 90s with Kendall Mk 2 and 3, Mike Walker and Walter Smith and I will be eternally grateful for what Moyes did in not only stopping the decline, but turning us back round and establishing us as a top 6 side.

The problem with Moyes is that he was always too frightened of losing games rather than winning them, hence so many draws.

The fact is the Lukaku money was generated from the sale of Fellani to Moyes's Man Utd. Martinez used that money to invest in a quality player. Moyes had that opportunity in the past with the Lescott sale, as well as spending big on Yakubu and Johnson.

Out of the 11 years with us, the one season with Yakubu banging them in was the best he got from a forward player. The reality is that he had spent millions on trying to find a top quality striker and failed.

Also, how he set his teams up didn't focus on a main striking outlet, with the one forward player he used being directed to hold up the play or 'run the channels'. He could have had the best striker in the world but how he sets teams up doesn't focus on their goalscoring threat. Did any of his Man Utd or Real Sociedad players score 20+ goals in his tenure there?

It seemed some were so accepting of our mediocrity they actually revelled in it. Some supporters don't realise, but 6th is viewed as mid-table by Champions League clubs and I wholeheartedly agree. Ask one Neville Southall what he thinks of a 6th place finish?

This post has nothing to do with Ginge really, the fact some of our fans still celebrate the fact BK & Moyes "steadied" one of the biggest clubs in English football is vomit-inducing.

Finishing 6th out of 20 clubs can in no way be viewed as mid-table finish no matter how you try to spin it (unless your maths is very bad). Also ask Neville Southall what he would have given for a 6th-place finish anytime between 1991 and 1998 and he would have bitten your hand off for it.

Obviously the northeast smog is getting to him – jog on, Ginge, and stop talking nonsense for a second.

He stabilised us, nothing more, and eventually held us back from kicking on, aided and abetted by Chairman Bill and Bob the Bungler.

Beside the fact that he destroyed every striker that he ever had, he never had any belief in the team or what we should be aspiring for as a club, and as soon as Uncle Alex rattled the nuts at OT, the liar shot off like a rocket down the East Lancs, conveniently sans contract at Everton

"Och, Soorry Billy pal, I dinnae ken sign that contract, ma wee little poodle called Knifey, ate it. Oooopppppssssyyyy. I'm ooota here, gota see ma auld mate whiskey face aboot a bit of work goin in Trafford!"

The man is a complete shithouse (both in a football & moral sense), and the sooner he stops talking about Everton playing like fuckin Barca when he managed us, the better.

Moyes and Kenwright where good for each other, a bit like Arkwright and Granville. It's refreshing to see that Everton are moving forward and hopefully Kenwright will sell up the remainder of his shares and we can move on from the parochial, corner shop and low expectations of previous years.

It always puzzles me when as soon as someone leaves the club they tend to come in for extreme levels of abuse from some posters. This doesn't mean I think Martinez and Moyes were both fantastic managers for us, just that it is not the case that they contributed nothing to the club.

I feel Koeman means business but I know there will be hiccups along the way – hopefully not tonight. It's going to take a lot of hard work to get us back to the top. Everton are a huge huge club and, as Ronald has said, anything is possible with Everton.

Moyes is just a small time manager who was lucky to be under a small time chairman. I hope we illustrate that tonight on the pitch.

Everton's finishes prior to Moyes:
12th, 13th, 17th, 15th, 6th, 15th, 17th, 14th, 13th, 16th, 15th

Everton's finishes with Moyes:
7th, 17th, 4th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 5th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th

How you can say that was a symbol of the fall of Everton under Moyes is completely ridiculous.

One of my good friend's sisters was married to him for many years. My best mate at home – who is a massive Evertonian and whose son plays for Wrexham so he is heavily involved in North Wales soccer – knows him personally so yes I do have connections that know Neville so I have been told certain things over the years.

And I can guarantee that no chance would he have been happy finishing 6th on a regular basis, you still laughing, pal?

"Sunderland manager David Moyes: "I see something similar between the clubs, but I don't want to be banging the drum every day saying 'Everton this, Everton that'.

"I'm only using it as an example to say if we can follow that route, we will not be far away. That will come from getting the recruitment right, and getting an understanding of the players we need to bring to the club.

"I'm hoping we can get that over the coming windows."

Maybe he's been learning from, Bobby. Incredible quotes there.

Not yet turned lilac but seem to have lost all vision in my left eye, jaw is permanently locked open and my arse is long gone:

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It'll be like seeing the game through fucking Jeff Stelling's eyes tonight.

I also went to Catholic primary and middle school with him and my old man and his were drinking pals in the British Legion in Conwy. I think I remember going to Friars to play rugby when I was in Loretto in Llandudno. Are you still living in North Wales, mate?

Evertonians are always too quick to offer their undying devotion to the guy who gets paid a fortune to bring us success. It's already happening with Koeman before he's got his coat off.

I'm cautiously hopeful about Koeman, but if he bounces out of the traps, he will only be doing what the last two did.

Let's get behind the team. We can always praise the hired hand who picks the team if he wins something, but please, not before.

As for Yakubu, that was a cracking side and was shaping up nicely for a dart at the top 4, then Yak did his achillies after one season. Arteta did his knee, so did Jags. Kick in the bollocks.

Fitting that, after Moyes makes this claim, a world class striker tears his side apart with a hat-trick.

We may have had a crack at the top four with someone like Lukaku whilst he was manager it's true. But what he fails to acknowledge is that his dire brand of football ensured no established 20-goal-a-season striker would ever have joined us to run the channels when he was in charge.

I think during his time Fellaini was his biggest transfer at £15 million. Maybe he would have needed two or maybe three quality attacking players, but it was still up to him to find them.

If you look at the attacking players around now, like Vardy, Mahrez, Mane, Payet, it shows there are players out there who don't cost the earth who sometimes are worth taking a chance on.

Please stop this right now, Darren. The whole thing makes me uncomfortable.

I also toured Germany (Rhine valley area) with North Wales U19's and Eddie Neidzweiki was my roommate. I am also abroad now in Canada. When I return to Wales I stay at my old school friend's hotel in Criccieth. His name is Ian Edwards, who played for WBA, Palace, Wrexham and Chester. He tells me that he still sees Eddie at Chester races each year.

100% Agree.

"It seemed some were so accepting of our mediocrity they actually revelled in it ... This post has nothing to do with Ginge really, the fact some of our fans still celebrate the fact BK & Moyes "steadied" one of the biggest clubs in English football is vomit-inducing."

It was a cringe-fest, that day. Never forget it. IMHO Moyes was good for 3 years and should have been dumped after that, and definitely when we failed to win the FA Cup vs Chelsea.

I have been an Evertonian since the early sixties. I am aware that we flirted with relegation prior to Moyes taking over – a disgrace for a big club like Everton – because of a series of poor managerial appointments by a clueless board. We should be challenging for trophies.

Then Moyes is appointed and does a good job for 3 or 4 years. After that, he is retained for too long, showing the complete lack of ambition from our Board. The media hype him up in the same way as the do with our young players, insinuating that they would do better at a big club. He buys it. Believes the hype and moves to Man Utd where he is found out to be very limited.

It wasn't Moyes's fault, it was our Board's fault that in my opinion he became the symbol of the fall of Everton. Although the seasons that preceded Moyes had been worse, we had by then accepted under Moyes that the best we could do was achieve a 6th- or 7th-place finish which is just not good enough for a club like Everton, as far as I am concerned.

Glad to see him fail, and ain't ashamed to admit it.

However, he probably stayed on a little too long. Without a doubt he was limited, he was more concerned about what the opposition were doing than what we were going to do in a game and as has been mentioned many times on these pages over the years, he bottled the big games & left us all feeling pig sick.

The moment he decided that Man Utd were better than Everton (personally I think that was the job he always wanted) was the moment I lost respect for him. He couldn't get out of Everton quick enough & we applauded him on his way to join a rival. We all know how he behaved towards Everton after he got to the glory hunters team.

Watching the game Monday & seeing how Sunderland set up & played against us, reminded me of watching ourselves playing against the likes of Man Utd away durng Moyes's reign. We are in a better place without him now. IKWT.

Someone above pointed out that if you look at his Wiki page, you will see he has won next to nothing in his career, which is spot on. He really has been hyped up by the media from his tenure with us. After his last 2 jobs his reputation has taken a bit of a knock, if he fails at Sunderland I don't see where he goes after that.

Out of interest, did you ever play against Ian Rush as Flint and Holywell/Mold are so near ? I love going back to North Wales whenever possible, it's such a lovely place. Getting home sick now!

My friend Ian Edwards played with Rushie at Chester when he was just coming through the ranks. We bumped into him at the bar of Northop Golf club a few years ago and had a chat.

Ian also sees Kevin Ratcliffe from time to time. I went out drinking a few times with Joey when he played at Wrexham with Ian. Joey is an absolute nutcase!

I was back in July and played golf at Porthmadog a few times. I agree with you, the scenery is stunning. I never tire of driving around North Wales.

Funny you should mention Joey, he was several years older than me but his younger brother, Frank, was in my brother's class in Catholic school and him and my older brother were very good friends. Actually Frank was an excellent footballer and could have made it big but injuries stalled his career.

It really is a small world isn't it mate. Where do you live in Canada? I live in Tampa and work at the airport.