Mayor drops further hints about dockside stadium

He went on to say this is the most exciting thing that has happened to the club in years. Could it really be happening?

I hate to think he is putting the cart before the proverbial but Peel must want to get something done. If they walk away or try and screw us too far i'd say that area of the docks would be shunned by one half of Merseyside for a generation.

Despite many protestations on this site about the development ("I'll believe it when I see it" lark), I think many are already dreaming of a game under lights on the waterfront.

Look at West Ham, Arsenal vs The Allianz or Juventus stadium.

First and foremost, our new stadium must be built for football. If there is a model somewhere in the world which is compatible with both football and athletics, I have yet to see it.

I don't know why we keep having these bullshit meetings over the ground we haven't bought a brick a bag of cement plans etc. I bet there's plenty of Scotch and Brandies being drunk though.

So the question is, do we want an athletics stadium at the docks or a football stadium outside the city?

I think we would end up owning this staidum, unlike West Ham, which means whilst they are stuck with the athletics, we can convert ours like City did.

I think we might need to just take it on the chin for a few years, to get what we want long term.

Or athletes are required to run around the outside of the stadium and back in for the finish.

Peel need this stadium to kick start their regeneration, the games will help fund accommodation and retail – it's a winner for everyone.

Shall we get a vote on size, shape and configuration of Putin Park or will all the decisions be made over vodkas in London?

I have an uncomfortable feeling that key sponsor Usmanov and Mayor Anderson won't see eye to eye on much when it gets down to finance and influence over the project. And will Uncle Bill get his Boys Pen back?

We deserve to know!

Unfortunately as with most things, beggars can't be choosers, and the club will be very reluctant to overload itself with unsustainable debt which might impinge on building a decent squad. Therefore, the club will probably have to accept whatever is given to them and the dreams of the fans may only be partly satisfied.

I also don't believe there will be that much consultation with the fans when it comes to Everton FC's final decision.

There must also be a concern that Peel, whose core business is owning and developing property for a variety of sectors, such as retail and leisure, will be aiming for a big slice of the ongoing return from any stadium. I am not holding my breath on an early, satisfactory outcome from our club's point of view.

There are some very clever designers out there so I don't see it as an issue. It's got to be a positive in terms of planning approval and speeding things up with the council. Win-win, I say.

There will be a solution in the long term, and I feel some exciting news in April when we get the nod!

I don't remember when or how that track at the Etihad disappeared....but it's not a problem to them now!

A top stadium my backside.

I'm just conscious of the fact that, if Joe Anderson loses his title as Mayor, then the whole project might take longer than expected due to the other crowd over the park raising silly and petty objections due to 100% pure jealousy.

Is there any reg that says away supporters must all be in one section of the ground? If not, the answer here would be to give them these exposed seats all around the stadium.

This may sound crazy but is true:-

The current lowest tier of seats (& dressing rooms etc) was already there, but below the athletics track/arena used at the C.Games (July 2002)!

I was at the Opening Ceremony & a morning's athletics and can assure you it's true. City moved in a year later after the unroofed stand at one end was knocked down and re-built ready for the start of the 2003-04 season.

Link

If we have to wait 4 or 5 years for our new stadium to be redeveloped, many factors may have changed, and we could end up stuck with another Olympic Park debacle.

But the outside, seating and architecture modern and visually appealing... but inside a horrible atmosphere for any team to come to

I don't want curved stands behind the goal or the side stands to be too far away from the touch line

Is that asking too much...

https://youtu.be/_FAGQUibng8

So if nothing comes of it, I'll be Ludvig - Link

Mayor Joe's little bursts make me nervous to be honest. Feels all too much like jam tomorrow...

It will be like a new city down there with retail, leisure, restaurants and bars, new high rise accommodation etc! If we have to put up with a running track for one or two years then so fucking what!!!!!

Man City got rid of it quite well and that is a 25-year-old design! Architects would wipe the floor with that design now and it ain't even that bad. Ours would be truly world class so lets get real, the only way we will become a real powerhouse again is by going with this!

Bring it fuckin on, I say!

The London Stadium were West Ham play was a purpose built stadium for the Olympics. Just like the Etihad was built for the Commonwealth Games. Both of these stadiums were converted to football stadiums although I would imagine that West Ham don't feel as if its their stadium yet because its like moving into a house that other people have used. Not exactly a brand new stadium built solely for your club as ours will be if its built.

So I wouldn't worry about a running track as it wont have one, it might have to be modified for 2 weeks if it was used for the Commonwealth Games.

As for Phil suggesting a Boys Pen, well maybe not such a bad idea – we could fill it free for all school children in the City, now wouldn't that be unique?

He knows the club would prefer improved access in place if they do commit to a major project such as a stadium. He can answer his critics by pointing to a Commonwealth Games bid, knowing the real driver behind the regeneration of the area would be a new stadium.

There will be no stadium built with private money that includes a provision for a Games that may or may not be awarded to the City. However, he is keen to see hotels, shops, offices and bars included in the future development of the site. Forget worrying about running tracks, not happening.

2026, as in TWENTY-TWENTY-SIX.

Think about that a wee bit...

Why would Everton sign up to such a tenuous possibility, NINE YEARS down the track – and I don't mean running track here.

I think it more likely that the thinking by all parties will be a dedicated football stadium to house Everton in. That will be the cornerstone on which other development around Bramley-Moore Dock will be built upon, including possibly other dedicated stadiums for other sports.

The (hopefully) Everton dockside FOOTBALL stadium could easily be modified to accommodate many other sports, including field athletics, rather than track athletics.

It just doesn't make logical, financial or logistical sense to build a (primarily) football stadium with a running track for an event that isn't even guaranteed to be hosted in the city, NINE YEARS from now with the intention of converting it to a completely dedicated footy stadium a full decade after its construction, once those 'futuristic games' are completed.

Currently he is selling off the city heritage, and trying to tie up as many deals as he can before he goes in April.

Highly unlikely to be around when the deal is signed. In my view, it is not worth listening to anything he says.

The actual games may take place in 2026 but they will be awarded sometime during 2019 – in plenty of time to incorporate a running track if required.

If that's 'tarted up', it's Monday night gravy level (ie: a flannel under the arms, smear of lippy and a quick squirt of Charlie up the kilt.)

I know you can't compare what it would be like with 50,000 spectators but you are simply too far from the pitch.

I'm all for a new stadium on the docks but sorry, if it means having a running track – no thanks, I would prefer to stay at Goodison until it falls down around us.

However, whatever happens & wherever it is, I echo those demanding a stadium with four sides near the action, steep & intimidating. Oh, & preferably including safe-standing areas too - lots of them!

Irish-Evertonians remember Eamonn Coghlan's feats there?

If a major, world-renowned, track and field event can be successfully held in an indoor rectangular box for a century, I doubt stadium architects will struggle to figure out a way to transfer the new dockside, four-walled Goodison Fortress into a proper venue for track and field.

The first 6-7 rows around the new place were installed as removable? Hell, 8 rows? I don't know. Seems simple enough. Would leave plenty room to accommodate track and field.

First, though, as we need, is to construct a stadium built with "Goodison bear-pit" in mind. Be surprised Moshiri neglects this. He's no pup, after all. He doesn't need money. So why purchase Everton?

For me, it's because what renown he garners in the wide-world will come from bringing Everton Football Club back to the top. And he won't miss the chance... I hope.

Someone who will talk the talk but not deliver. Someone who will make all the committee and public believe that it's in the bag right up until the last minute, while at the same time pocketing all the money.

I know just the man anyone got Bill's number?

"It definitely needs tarting up," is what he said to me with a smile, "it's rougher than the Grafton used to be on a Monday night!"

You help make my point for me.

With the English preferred city named in 2018 and the actual host only named in 2019, surely Everton will have dug the first spade in the ground well before that if this is genuinely going to happen.

The stadium design has to be determined not on ifs and maybes, but clarity and certainty. To do otherwise is to risk a reet hotchpotch.

“And it's an exciting opportunity, an exciting juncture we are at in the north of Liverpool but the whole city.” And earlier in the piece: “If the stadium comes off we're talking with Peel about 2026, the Commonwealth Games, and that's exciting," the Mayor said.

Both sentences would suggest that the Commonwealth games issue is to be piggy-backed onto the Everton stadium proposal and not the other way round. We'll see how things pan out in the next few months, I suppose.

The only thing the fat arrogant pleb is interested in is cutting deals with property firms. Don't believe anything that comes out of the rat's mouth.

So, you get the design right for the long-term (New Old Lady) and compromise on the "interim" solution for the games. If only it was that simple...

I've also been to the Singapore Sports Hub when we played Arsenal in 2015-16 pre-season. I loved the stadium (no obstructed views!!) and the transport infrastructure (I think there was 50k or so there?).

But, there was too much of a gap to the pitch on each side & a massive gap at each end. We need a more intimate & intimidating arena in my opinion.

Also, given that 1st tier cities are shying away from the money pit that is Olympic bidding (not withstanding all the financial jiggery pokery) have they actually bid, are the bids open, who else is bidding?

Whose 'turn' is it? -– this counts a lot, Northern Hemisphere / Africa / Southern Hemisphere... will they actually win if they bid...Has anybody done a costing on the potential project?

Or is this just as Khrushchev says – A Politician is somebody who promises to build you a bridge, where there isn't even a river.

Anyway – No fucking running track. I'd rather stay at Goodison and do it up one stand at a time than have one.

Does anyone here know when the venue for the Commonwealth Games will be decided?

Of course, like most of you around here, I wouldn't want a track around the pitch. But the choice could come down to either that format or a strictly-football ground at the other site, and that's assuming the council would support us in the latter option.

Pretty soon, the "rebuild Goodison" crowd will hit the airwaves again! ;-)

What gets me is it'll only be used the once for 2 or 3 weeks... won't it?? Just seems a bit of a waste...It's not EFC's job to help fund Anderson's wish list.

Cost though. Queensland (pop 5M?) are gearing up for the 2018 Commonwealth. Games. Estimated as to cost vary, but the average of the estimates is about £1.2 BILLION.

These things never seem to come in under budget – and the next one always seems more expensive than the last. Not quite sure who Anderson thinks is going to pay for all this, even if they do get the bid.

During the hooligan years, Arsenal, from memory, were the only club who refused to put fences up saying if they treated their fans like animals they would behave like animals.

Some may find it ironic / some appropriate that they should then be the ones to lead us back into an era where spectators can stand again.

If the argument for a stadium is strengthened by an application for the Commonwealth Games, then surely the stadium is going to have to be constructed as (a) an athletics stadium and then converted to a football stadium afterwards (as with the Etihad); or (b) built as a football stadium with large areas behind each goal to accommodate a running track.

Either option would seem to preclude a four sided stadium and option (a) would mean not moving in until after 2026. How do we get a four-sided football stadium before 2026?

West Ham and City were built as Athletics Stadiums converted for Football.

Fingers crossed we end up with a Stadium fit for Evertonians and not a multi-milllion-pound compromise!

It's a simple problem to overcome with modern technology; whereby the first dozen or so rows are retractable and BOOM! Running Track!!!

Does anyone seriously believe that a £300 Million modern stadium couldn't conceive that at the design stage?

Unless they have changed their mind, I think we will be alright. If not though then I would be seriously worried about the atmosphere.

I know with modern technology you can achieve almost anything but I doubt whether the owners of EFC are going to finance a complete state-of-the-art stadium?

So it would seeem that those calling for some form of safe standing on this thread are far from alone.

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We all jump in with glasses half-empty, that we don't want a running track, but have your glass half-full for a second and pause.

If this new stadium was to be built many years before the games but with the opportunity to convert temporarily to give it a running track, then the designers can work from this, and not as Man City and WHU where they had the track issue to overcome after they took the stadium on.

We would be in a really good position if the designers can pull it off that they can build a stadium for football but for a one off converted to a running track and then back to a football stadium after for ever. We would get lots of grants to build, reducing the clubs outlay and earn pennies from the games for the club and the city – win, win, win.

And all of this for the inconvenience of converting our front 20 temporary rows into a track and then back to 20 permanent rows seems little sacrifice for a gleaming new stadium on the waterfront, selling us to the athletic, football and cruising world.

Sorry, doubters, but its a no-brainer for me, bring it on!!!!!!!

I can understand Anderson throwing the bait of receiving grants into the debate to help fund a new stadium build for Everton. Nothing wrong with that and it has been shown (with both good examples – Man City – and bad examples – WHU) that a stadium originally built with an athletics track can be converted to a footy stadium.

However, the overriding question for me remains a very obvious and simple one.

Pause and think yourself. Consider the chronology of all this.

We know for a fact designers are working on designs for a new Everton stadium. How can they possibly start to come up with design ideas with so many shifting unknowns?

We are now at the start of 2017. The hope is Everton confirm and start the construct of a new stadium THIS year, or at the latest, 2018. Potentially, we could be playing in a new stadium by 2019-20.

The Commonwealth Games Anderson is targeting are in 2026 - TWENTY-FRIGGING-TWENTY-SIX!

Nominations for the host have yet to be submitted.

The English preferred city will only be named in 2018.

The actual host will only be selected in 2019.

By 2019 Everton could potentially already be in a newly constructed stadium, or as damn as near it.

How can Everton begin on definitive designs for a stadium, begin to construct a stadium whilst also having half an eye on the city of Liverpool possibly being the nominated city for the UK to stage the games, and then possibly being selected as the chosen host?

And even if the club and city jump through all those hoops, where is the logic in constructing an Everton stadium with the intention to accommodate a running track for 2-3 weeks in the (maybe!) summer of 2026?

How will the stadium look in potentially the 6-7 years before those brief games (maybe!) take place?

And how will the stadium look after the (maybe!) games take place? Why give yourself that headache of refurbishing the stadium all over again just 5-6 years into your occupancy of a new home on so many maybes?

Now modern engineering – as the excellent example Patrick gave of the Singapore stadium – can come up with fantastic solutions. But all come at a cost.

A stadium move has to be bang on the money to work.

Anderson's comments yesterday leave this particular poster confused as to what the council's and the club's intentions are.

It would certainly increase the Worldwide appeal and therefore increase advertising revenue. And that's what would be welcome, after all, they usually run up a debt for whichever country hosts them. Allegedly.

Nobody has explained how you can have an intimidating four-sided stadium constructed near to the pitch, incorporating a running track. I've thought of two solutions both of which are implausible – either the athletes make 90 degree turns while competing or we have whole stands that are retractable!

Purpose built football stadium or multi-purpose oval bowl. They're the only two options, in my opinion. I totally agree with Jay Wood.

I can understand (ish) the interest in the Commonwealth Games for Brits living in the old 'British Empire' but now, to me, it just seems... um... odd and pointless.

"Come on England, let's really stick it up The Cook Islands, Tuvalu, Norfolk Island and Nieu!"

It's not probable (I don't think) but certainly possible that by 2026, the entire thing is seen as just an excuse for the wealthier (and whiter) nations to pick up medals by beating 'countries' less able to compete. (nb: although maybe I'm wrong and Grenada have a couple of dead good, international standard velodromes there.)

I watch a lot of the Olympics but very little of the Commonwealth Games.

To be honest, an event that seemed big when I was a kid, now looks rather tatty.

The only thing I can't remember is, did it have a smaller type of running track round it before the Commonwealth Games? If so, then the terracing would be a lot further back than most on here want.

Anyway, the following link includes a video which shows how Hampden Park did the changes....

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-03-12/time-lapse-video-shows-hampden-parks-transformation-ahead-of-2014-glasgow-commonwealth-games/

They built it up to cover the lower seating level and when the games finished it was taken down to leave the pitch undamaged. Today I seen the video how it was done and they used time lapse photography and the result was amazing! I haven't got the links but if you Google it you will find it eventually... It's well worth a look!

Rest assured, there'll be no permanent running track at our new Ground!!

Or the alternative of a cheaper option in Croxteth?

If it is sold to the people as being a possible to be temporarily changed for the games and we get the docks that is the way we should go, or lets be stubborn, get one in the outskirts of the city and basically give the city to the shite?

Still a no-brainer, huge stadium on the docks that may have to be changed temporarily for 2-3 weeks for the Commonwealth Games that the city still has not won the right to hold.

If this is an option that Moshiri wants to have that is his prerogative and if it helps both financially and with a location once again a no-brainer.

Now that we have a realistic chance to get the stadium on the docks we just seem to want to fuck ourselves over, Kenwright did it for the first docks stadium, lets not do it to ourselves by not accepting that their may be a slim chance that we may have to accommodate a running track for 2-3 weeks to give us the prime location that may put us on a worldwide map for oval instead of square – What will supporters do if, even without a running track, Moshiri decides his hard-earned money is building an oval stadium... not attend? Then maybe you are not the supporter you think; we should be thanking this man for GAMBLING on us, and let him have his reins

But we can talk about this forever, until we see plans in a location that is yet not decided.

Personally I don't want to contemplate the thought of forced accommodations of other sports/activities, or sickly "Partnerships" with outside interests.

There are many changes being mandated upon life, society and its elements now, including the sure-as-the-day-dawns starting requirement of potential massive profit, as opposed to ensuring continuity and organic growth of an asset, supported by enough profit.

Things are going to continue being changed (as compared with changing) at a phenomenal, accelerating rate. The details of where that may go is a whole other subject.

I'm pretty sure though, our future should not depend to any meaningful degree on a bloody running track. It's a total hassle, and the very best of solutions would plonk a very high cost onto someone for a few dozen hours of running. If the Games in their forms are now so commercially slick and viable, then let their suave financial gurus deal with that independently away from football.

Some things are still sacred, for now, and on this subject I also feel the emotional angle. This is Everton Football Club. OUR stadium to OUR design. If it can prevail as a stand-alone commercial operation into the future. If not, redevelop Goodison Park. And yes, I'm aware of the parking and other limitations.

Now, now, Ralph. We are all entitled to our opinions. Should it ever come to people shunning an (hopefully unlikely) oval ground, that would be their prerogative, not a measure of their support.

Also, once we supporters are through paying homage to his beneficence, perhaps Mr Moshiri should then thank the generations of supporters, who for over a century have ensured this club is here – hence giving him the opportunity to likely benefit handsomely on his investment. I doubt it's much of a gamble.

1. If we want a new stadium in the Docks, within the next 2-3 years who exactly is going to pay for its construction?- I'm no expert but the RS just spent £150M on their giant main stand so what does does building 4 new ones cost?

2. Peel are not a registered charity so who is going to buy the land from them, on which to build said new stadium?

3. Does anybody know how much time/cost is needed to clean up & fill in a huge water-filled derelict dockland area and make it a safe place on which to build?

Sounds great, this paradise on the Mersey, but I drove past it last week and it looked like the end of the earth to me – it's not just the stadium that's the issue, its the entire transport and facilities environment needed to safely support 50k people turning up.

As for getting tied up with the Commonwealth Games and needing that to kick-start anything, steer clear. We have to be focussed on what we need – but can we afford it?

Looking at that link, the "Before" pic further down from the video shows Hampden to be quite a pronounced oval shape. Looks more so than I've ever noticed on screen, but not what I'd want for us, too far from the action.

I had a quick shufty around there before Christmas, it's a tip for sure, but what's seen is not the problem. Mega ground works needed. Ground works are expensive. Complicated large ground works, exorbitant... before even thinking about the useable structure. They'll have done at least a bit of basic consultation to even consider the possibilities, but it won't come cheap.

Can we afford it, is the question. I guess most things are "Affordable" if everyone potentially involved is prepared/able to structure things to suit financially, over the necessary term.

I've said before that I would LOVE us to move to Bramley-Moore Dock but I still think we'll end up in Gillmoss. Sweet Jesus, let me be wrong.

Dortmund's stadium is fantastic, Shaun, but I dream of the day when we play them there and they have to come back to our place that looks like this (at Bramley-Moore Dock) for the return.

Link

Regarding the perceived problem of filling the dock in - why bother?

The first thing that happens when someone starts construction on a multi storey is to dig a dirty great big hole for a car park to accommodate visitors to the building.

Why can't we convert the dock into an underground car park do with of course an access from the river – "The Mersey Gate" and mooring for Bill's speedboat.

I've got too much time on my hands.

I've got too much time on my hands."

Good stuff, Laurie... and submarine access a la James Bond movie, with a fast shuttle elevator straight to the Director's lounge.

There was a whole town's worth going on beneath the World Trade Center, trains and roads in and out, as one example. It's all possible, but... £££.

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Keep an eye out in the papers for his tie turning blue.

I would add about the Commonwealth Games and athletics track – don't fret: if it happens, it will be a temporary alteration to the stadium. Our ground will be 100 percent built for us, built for football. Anything else would cause mayhem.

I am a big fan of the Lucas Oil Stadium. The stadium isn't a bowl, it's not quite Goodison but then there never will be unless we propose to build a replica.

The dock it has to be. I think things we need include a 60,000 plus capacity, a retractable roof, and possibly retractable front seats like Singapore.