Ain't no Scouse

Tim Constable 08/12/2018 147comments  |  Jump to last

As a cockney Blue of over 30 years I have had this said to me a number of times over the years whilst following Everton. In truth, I’m certainly not a Cockney, but my accent around Goodison clearly makes me stand out like a sore thumb to some people and over the years, for some reason, seems to upset some of my fellow Evertonians!

I started following Everton around 1986-87, glory hunting I probably was, but to be fair I was 6 years old. I vividly remember watching Everton in a rare televised game and instantly falling in love with them. The football was wonderful I knew that even at that age, the Royal Blue shirts were classy and they were all winners. From that point, it was only Everton for me, despite my Dad trying to explain to me that Goodison Park was a 500-mile round trip, I would not be moved and stuck with my beloved blues.

Fast forward a few years, I had started work and could now afford to take myself off to Goodison Park for the first time. It was the 01-02 season. I had previously managed to convince my Dad to take me to Wembley for the 1991 Zenith Data System Cup final and a few away games in London, but finally I could go to Goodison Park. It was the 18th November 2001, Everton V Chelsea with Everton lining up as:-

ADVERTISEMENT

About these ads

Simonsen, Pistone, Unsworth, Watson, Weir, Stubbs, Naysmith, Alexandersson, Gemmill, Gravensen, Radzinski.

It ended up 0-0 in what was a pretty poor game but a good result at the time for Everton against a free-flowing Chelsea lead by Zola, Lampard and Hasselbaink. It was probably the 10th time I had seen Everton play live, but my first at Goodison and I couldn’t have been happier. That was until the bloke next to me gave me his opinion on something that had gone on during the game, I happily offered mine back. He looked at me and paused, before muttering to himself “Ain't no Scouse”. I was clearly an Everton supporter cheering them on in my replica shirt so I was confused as to what the issue was.

In the following years, this comment has been repeated to me several times, along with various others including “Manchester is that way, pal” and “the Cockney has got lost”. Everton’s fall from grace happened a few years after I got into football and I have endured the pains along with everyone else: the Mike Walker years, Jimmy Gabriel’s short but painful stints as manager and Howard Kendall’s third period as Everton manager. An FA Cup and Charity Shield win aside, I would hardly call myself as a glory hunter.

So what’s the point of explaining all this? I guess it’s to ask Why? Why the hostility from admittedly only a small proportion of Evertonians? It is enough for me to be cautious in engaging with people at matches even now. I understand how proud the people of Liverpool are of their City and I know Everton do not have the amount of international supporters that Liverpool have but why is it such an issue for some people for somebody from the South of England to travel up to Goodison and watch the team they support play a game of football?

This isn’t an issue for the City as a whole, I have been to Liverpool on many occasions for lots of reasons aside form football; on those occasions, nobody raises an eyebrow at me but put a blue scarf around my neck and I am suddenly looked at like I’ve got two heads.

So, if you do hear a cockney Blue at the next match (I’ve got my ticket for the Watford game), give us a chance, all we want is the 3 points for Everton as well.

Share this article



Reader Comments (147)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Darren Hind
1 Posted 08/12/2018 at 08:23:20
We're jealous of Liverpool, Tim.

And by that, I mean we are jealous of their worldwide fanbase. Their success in Europe has given them a support (and therefore financial muscle) from outside the City that we could only dream of.... so, rather bizarrely, we use it as a stick to beat them with. Even more bizarrely — they bite.

There is no better way to insult a local kopite than to dismiss his club as a "Tourists club" — it drives them fucking nuts.

By discussing the game without addressing the guy next to you as "Lad", you are laying bare the oft-peddled myth that Everton support is exclusively Scouse.

Don't let this put you off, Tim "lad". It's true there are a few who will practice and subscribe to this bizarre inverted snobbery, but it's not really aimed at you. The overwhelming majority of Blues know that, without you and hopefully many more who follow you, this club would be in deep shit.

Andy Osborne
2 Posted 08/12/2018 at 08:28:44
I don't really have my accent anymore, having left Liverpool 34 years ago. But as far as I am concerned a Blue is a Blue. But if you want to blend in on the terraces and in the pubs around the ground, try this:

How To Do A Liverpool/Scouse Accent In under 2 mins

Brian Williams
3 Posted 08/12/2018 at 08:46:38
I think you've just been unlucky with those around you, Tim, as most of us would gladly welcome support from anyone who loves the Blues.

There's a guy from "the greater London area" – that's as specific as I can place his accent and he sits behind me for every home game and I know he travels up for each game as I've heard him chatting to the Scouser who sits beside him.

The guy that sits next to me, Barry, is Welsh, and he suffers the traffic bringing his daughter to every home game as a season ticket holder.
I'm from the Wirral so I'm "only" a plastic Scouser or a "Woolie" as my old mates from Crocky and Maghull used to call me back in the 80s.

So don't be worried about not being a Scouser, Tim. Me and a number of other ToffeeWebbers spent a great night last week in the company of other true Blues and some of them weren't even Limeys, ffs. ;-)


John G Davies
4 Posted 08/12/2018 at 08:54:13
Anyone remember Cockney John from the seventies and eighties? It would have been interesting to see his response to a bit of stick.

A great Evertonian.

Dennis Stevens
5 Posted 08/12/2018 at 09:14:56
You're not alone, Tim. I've had the pleasure of being dismissed as a "Wool" on many occasions, especially back in the '80s.

Tbh, I don't think a lot of Evertonians realise how widespread our support is. Whilst we may not have the legions of supporters around the globe that MUFC & LFC can boast, I have noticed over the years that wherever I go there always seems to be another Evertonian, often in the most unlikely of places.

It seems to me we're everywhere, but maybe in not such prolific numbers as our aforementioned neighbours. Perhaps this will become more apparent as the sleeping giant starts to reawaken under the new regime.

Andrew Leverton
6 Posted 08/12/2018 at 09:20:05
My experience has mirrored that of Tim's . Upton Park 1985 before we had won anything (in the 80s). Was called Cockney bastard in Everton end. First ever game watching my beloved Everton. After years of supporting them from afar (Zimbabwe) . Now live in New Zealand and have an 11 year old son who is desperate to go to England one day and watch Everton. Hope all you scousers have broadened your minds if he ever makes it there. He would be gutted to think he was not part of the Everton "Family "
Geoff Trenner
7 Posted 08/12/2018 at 09:26:02
I have had the same experience, Tim, but it seems to be a fairly recent phenomenon.

Back in the 70s and very early 80s (before I had wife and kids) I regularly rode my motorbike up from Harlow in Essex for home games and went to pretty much every away game south of Birmingham. I never met any hostility for my ‘neutral' accent. I never did pick up the Essex/Thames Estuary type accent thankfully!

Now, as a much less frequent visitor to Goodison, I frequently get snarky comments because of my lack of local accent.

I have been a Blue since 1962, aged 5, took all the stick from schoolmates, all Spurs or West Ham fans, and very rarely meet fellow Blues down here in rural Somerset but always take the opportunity for a chat when I see someone in the shirt.

David Hallwood
8 Posted 08/12/2018 at 09:57:33
Un-effin-believable! Firstly I'm a blue because I had no choice in the matter; dad, granddad both blues, and if I would've announced that I want to support the shite, Man Utd or the Arse I would be in a shallow grave and communicating with you ToffeeWebbers via a spirit medium.

FFS, how much longer do scouse Evertonians want to be this parochial small club? Because the fact is that we've never have been. Way, way back in the day we were called the Bank of Merseyside, and it was the 'big 5' (Us, the shite, Spurs, Arsenal & Man Utd) the forerunner of the Sky 6 that dominated football.

In fact, I'd say that non-scouse Blues need to admired and pitied in equal measure, as it takes either a level of bravery or stupidity when choosing a team to say: "Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Barca, Real are winning everything playing fabulous football, but d'you know what — that Carl Tiler, Mitch Ward & Michael Madar really float my boat".

There are times I've wished that dad would've taken me to watch another team, or even ballet lessons, and I would've ended up not giving a toss about football.

But I am where I am, so to all non-scouse Evertonians wherever you may be in the world, I salute and applaud you. Try to get your friends and family to support the Blues — let's share the misery around.

Andrew Yates
9 Posted 08/12/2018 at 10:12:35
Me and my brother were brought up in the depths of Hertfordshire, far from the shores of the Royal Blue Mersey.

Seemingly the only Everton fans in our town surrounded by a glut of Spurs, Gunners, RS and Man Utd fans we stood out from the crowd. To be honest, the regular jibes only served to strengthen our love of the club, so we to are 'Southern Softies' embraced in the bosom of EFC and I wouldn't have it any other way.

We have and always will love going to Goodison when I can, although why during the 90's we always got stuffed by Spurs, just to make things more difficult at school seemed a bit harsh.

I ain't no Scouse (but my family are!!)

Simon Smith
10 Posted 08/12/2018 at 10:25:29
I'm from the East Midlands, and I was the only Evertonian at my school that I knew of. Gradually as I've got older though I have randomly come across several Everton fans in these parts.

I even saw a young kid in the street wearing an Everton shirt; I congratulated him on a great life choice!

I'm glad to say I've never been criticised for not being scouse, I recall joey Barton saying that only scousers should be Everton fans. We all know he's a twat!

Mark Murphy
11 Posted 08/12/2018 at 11:03:53
I was born and lived just 13 Miles door to door from Goodison Park but “unfortunately” just over the woolly border, in St Helens.

I quickly learned a passable Scouse accent to avoid being targeted by scallies at Lime Street asking me the time and I perfected the phrase “Der's a fuckn big clock up der, soft arse!”

I've always heard the odd “fuckn woolly back” jibe when I've voiced my opinions at Games but I couldn't give a shit. I've done my time – travelled on Blue Streaks to Ipswich and Southampton when we were shit whilst my Scouse mates stayed in bed...

But to be fair, the vast majority of scousers have always been well sound with me – even the Scouse Reds I know are decent lads.
Btw – I once attended a Man Utd game at plough lane with a friend of mine in the early 90's. I was in the United end and got dogs abuse for being a "Norvern Cant"!!

Phil McKeown
12 Posted 08/12/2018 at 11:17:15
Dickheads, mate.

COYB

Thomas Lennon
13 Posted 08/12/2018 at 12:31:17
There are a lot of elements that contribute to this and we had better get used to it as we are going to become more successful and get more non-scouse followers.

I grew up a mile from Finch Farm (so technically non-scouse) and then moved away for work. One of the biggest differences I quickly detected was that, outside Scouseland, our aggressive wind-up brand of humour was not well understood and usually drove people away, offended. Only Glaswegians get it and give it back.

So next time someone goes on about wools and cockerneys, give it back – but remember to keep it light and grin!

Mark Louch
14 Posted 08/12/2018 at 12:39:58
I've supported the Blues fanatically since 1968 when my dad asked me (aged 6), which team I was going to support in the one televised game each year, when Everton played West Brom in the FA Cup Final.

So it could have been worse, I could have been really disappointed... instead of a life of continual hope and largely shattered dreams for 50 years to date.

I happen to live 250 miles away and get to Goodison Park irregularly, most recently on Wednesday versus Newcastle. This doesn't stop me and thousands of us not born in the City supporting Everton as passionately as the next guy.

Personally I have not experienced the stupidity referred to in this article, more the generous warmth, humour and pre-disposition to expecting the worse that we all recognise.

The only hostility I've ever experienced is when, as a southern-based Toffee, I have sat on my hands at the likes of Highbury, White Hart Lane and the horrible Stamford Bridge, when sat among home supporters.

Everton is a global club, not as big as our neighbours, but one of the biggest. We should all enjoy and celebrate that fact.

Paul Tran
15 Posted 08/12/2018 at 12:54:59
Tim, you have my sympathy. Through the 80s & 90s, I lived down south, travelling to many games with ESCLA, where there were many 'Cockney Blues' who travelled round the country for every game. All of them in my book are/were just a big a Blue as any of us Scousers.

More power to them, I say!

Mike Galley
16 Posted 08/12/2018 at 13:16:31
Sorry to hear that, Tim, and I hope supporters of our club who are like that are in the minority. Personally, nothing gives me greater joy than meeting fellow blues when I'm on my travels. Couldn't care less where they come from.

I always seem to meet Blues when I'm up in the Lake District; do we have a strong following up there or do I just get lucky when I'm in them parts?

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

17 Posted 08/12/2018 at 13:17:57
A lovely piece Tim. An enjoyable read.

And in answer to your question: "Why the hostility towards non-scousers?"

Ignorance and stupidity, pure and simple.

Thankfully, it is an attitude held by an infinitesimally small number of city-born Blues, but it does exist. It surfaces now and again in posts on TW, which exposes more the imbecility of the poster rather than the 'out-of-towners' they attempt to diss.

All true Evertonians are familiar with the mantra:

'Evertonians are born not manufactured.
We do not choose, we are chosen.
Those who understand need no explanation.
Those who don't understand, don't matter.'

I've long believed non-city Blues are possibly even more worthy than city-born Blues. Why? Because if you are born into a Blue family within the city, nature and nurture impacts on you from day one. You naturally inherit the Blue calling from your forefathers.

To adopt the Blues as your chosen team as an 'outsider' gives you even greater credence in my eyes, especially in recent years. Because, for nigh-on 3 decades now, you cannot be labelled a 'glory hunter', so embracing Everton is an act of true love, true devotion...or... out-and-out masochism!

Me? It is many, many years since I left the city of my birth. Even that, apparently, is sufficient to consider me a 2nd Class Blue Citizen by some on TW.

But, because I'm so widely travelled, I've bumped into fellow Blues all over the world, and very few were natives of the city. Sitting down and chatting with them and discovering just how they became a Blue is worthy of a book in its own right.

Your story, Tim, adds another delightful chapter to that fictional book.

Thank you for being a fellow Blue.

Tony Cheek
18 Posted 08/12/2018 at 13:31:40
Probably better if you talk Norwegian, Tim!
Ed Fitzgerald
19 Posted 08/12/2018 at 13:32:29
It's great to have supporters that travel from far and wide to support the Blues and it must be bloody horrible to be made to feel uncomfortable following your club.

Obviously football clubs tend or tended to draw their support from the immediate locations – and I suppose for many Blues who live or originate from the City – we see ourselves as the club who have more of our support being drawn from the local area. Follow the link below to have this assertion borne out.


Liverpool and Man Utd are the least local clubs in the Premier League

Peter Gorman
20 Posted 08/12/2018 at 13:37:38
Would they dream of saying that to Graham Stuart?

I am a mere son of scouse with a cockney accent, though now I live too far away to go to games pretty much anywhere in the UK. I've never heard those remarks and can only put it down to dumb ignorance or attempted banter.

Question for Darren though, I thought the correct term of endearment was 'lid'.

Dermot Byrne
21 Posted 08/12/2018 at 13:39:18
Darren #1 has it right, mate. I often annoy a colleague Red by making his name sound Norwegian.

That is fine as it is banter with another club but we should never criticise a fellow Blue for where they come from.

And I hope TW is an example to you that a group of fans who will argue black is white all welcome you and see you as much a Blue as any of us.

As for the knobheads who said this, well, you will always get knobheads in 40,000 people. Hopefully decent fans may tell them to shut-the-fuck-up nextime.

Tim James
22 Posted 08/12/2018 at 13:41:17
Am I a scouser? My family has deep roots in Liverpool. My dad attended the Liverpool Institute and served in the Liverpool King's regiment in WW2; my uncle likewise and gave his life – they both drank in the Philharmonic. My parents met in the central library where my mother worked... I could go on.

My regret is I was born near Wigan and have never lived in Liverpool. However, I love the city and Everton but I don't have the accent – what does define a scouser? As I feel I have every right to call myself one!

I have never met any animosity on my frequent visits to the city because of my accent, although I was once threatened in the old Haufbrau House (not sure why) and the potential assailant asked a bouncer to hold his coat; needless to say, I was out of there fast.

John Keating
23 Posted 08/12/2018 at 13:41:44
Tim,

Jay at 17 is spot on !! Absolutely spot on.

I was born and brought up in Everton to an all Blue family. Well, one cousin is a red but there's always one isn't there. So it was easy for us.

But Jay is right regarding true Blues from outside Liverpool, whether from elsewhere in the country or even more brilliantly, from overseas. Many of whom are as dedicated as anyone else and never had the opportunity to attend a game at Goodison.

Tim, I would like to apologise on the ignorance of a few. Doesn't matter where you're from and what language or accent you have – a Blue is a Blue. One of very few who are "chosen".

Jimmy Hogan
24 Posted 08/12/2018 at 14:02:03
As a non-Scouse season ticket holder, the only issue I have ever faced is that of baffling incomprehension when the Scouser who sits next to me starts talking to me. Fortunately, the Scouser who sits in front of me is kind enough to act as translator. We all get on great.
John G Davies
25 Posted 08/12/2018 at 14:02:54
Tim,

Ignore the one or two divvys you will get in any crowd of people. Long may you continue to go to the game.

A Blue is a Blue in my eyes, regardless if he comes from this city or if he comes from the Moon.

Alan J Thompson
26 Posted 08/12/2018 at 14:06:41
Tim, it is known as "Blind Scouse", there's no meat to it or them, particularly between the ears.
Dermot Byrne
27 Posted 08/12/2018 at 14:08:20
Tim... no! You are a woolybaaaaascccckkkk!

As a city with a huge student population, many who fall in love and make friends and stay, the dilution of scouseness has been happening for years.

A great mate of mine is from near Anglesey. Fluent in Welsh and came to Uni and stayed. I don't know anyone who loves and defends and sells the city like him.

In the end, it is mostly just an accent... the rest is open to anyone.

Brian Murray
28 Posted 08/12/2018 at 14:21:02
We should really welcome non-scouse blues, especially when the new ground is built to fill the hopefully 61,878 capacity.

The only sad and slightly embarrassing thing about out-of-towners was the last Man Utd semi-final. In a Blues pub, a lad got on the stage with microphone in hand to give a rendition of Onward Evertonians. I was the only one who joined in although it was a good hour before kick-off, so maybe the scouse blues hadn't arrived by then.

Tim James
29 Posted 08/12/2018 at 14:51:55
Thanks for clearing that up for me Dermot, I shall spend the rest of the weekend sulking.
Dave Abrahams
30 Posted 08/12/2018 at 14:56:40
I can't add to the posts welcoming you, Tim, to the Everton family. I've met loads of Evertonians, that's what you are, from outside the city. I'm always made up to talk to them; it makes no difference where they come from, as John Keating says.

In some ways, they are better Blues than us because of the many miles they travel to see our team. I have never lived more than five minutes by bus from Goodison Park all my life.

Strangely when I used to travel to the away games growing up, the fans who got on my nerves were the ones whose accent grew more Scouse the further we got away from Liverpool. I couldn't stand the phoney dickheads.

Keep coming Tim, you've seen plenty of bad days, the good ones are just around the corner.

Stan Schofield
31 Posted 08/12/2018 at 15:28:48
Tim, I think there's only one explanation for that kind of attitude that you've experienced, and it's called stupidity. It's no more complicated than that.

Just forget about it. There's always going to be someone narking on about something.

Paul Birmingham
32 Posted 08/12/2018 at 16:20:05
I wouldn’t let any such ilk get under your skin.

There’s loads of lads who were hard core Evertonians, who left the Merseyside and City area for work and other reasons in the last 50 years, and top people, they are and they follow EFC, everywhere, and that’s preseason friendlies as well.

The club needs every Evertonian now like never before in the changing world of football. Born A Blue, Live A Blue, Die a Blue, and all should be proud to be Evertonians, and part of our family.


Colin Glassar
33 Posted 08/12/2018 at 16:51:10
To be brutally honest, I’ve never understood people who don’t support their hometown clubs but I respect their right to pick and choose. Everton obviously have loads of Welsh and Irish fans and nowadays you hear accents from all over the place.

I really don’t like the football tourists/glory hunting plastics who spend a fortune following the latest in-teams just so they can take selfies to post on Instagram and other social media sites. You can see them at every game.

Henrik Lyngsie
34 Posted 08/12/2018 at 17:53:15
I am one of these glory-hunting plastics who just didn't realize Everton was not an 'in' team when I started supporting Everton in November 1977, watching us beat Coventry 6-0 and a hat-trick from my hero Bob Latchford. Trust me, I don't meet many Evertonians around here in Copenhagen (although they do exist).

I love coming to Goodison Park. People are so friendly. Last time when I picked up my ticket at Bullens Road, the steward was either very nice or very bored (or both) since he insisted to walk us to the correct turnstile. I think we had turnstile number 10 and all way from 25 he counted down and explained the system. Like after 25 was 24 and so on. I don't think he was a scouser since I actually understood what he was saying.

Like Jimmy Hogan (24), there is always a language barrier when visiting Goodison. A few years back, I had my two boys at the derby. There was a guy behind us shouting and swearing (I think) the whole first half. My kids got a bit worried but, at half-time, he approached us and apologized to my kids in the nicest way. After which he continued swearing for the full second half. We never understood a word but I am sure he thought Lukaku was a lazy bastard.

I am proud to be a Blue and it is fantastic to visit Goodison where the majority of fans are somehow local. I once went to Stamford Bridge with my youngest son and had to buy the ticket through a Danish travel agent. We were seated with a hundred other Danes with their 12-year-olds... I was missing my swearing scouser behind me to create some atmosphere.

Stan Schofield
35 Posted 08/12/2018 at 18:47:32
Henrik, like most types of folks, there's a large spectrum of Scouser, ranging from rough narks to more thoughtful and nuanced individuals (I believe most Reds fall within the first, unsophisticated, category, whilst most Blues are in the latter).

Anyway, in the 70s I had a German mate living in Liverpool for a few years, and he had no problem understanding Scousers generally, apart from the occasional few. He told me about one occasion where he was standing at a bus stop, and the bus was very late. The bloke next to him was a Scouser, who started complaining about the bus being late. My mate said that the only word he could really understand, which was repeated a lot, was 'fuckin'.

Simon Smith
36 Posted 08/12/2018 at 19:07:23
Colin 33,

It's all good and well saying you should support your home town club; my home town doesn't have one (one in the top 7 leagues anyway). It's also pretty much the same distance from Leicester and Nottingham and my dad supported Man Utd.

So it's not always clear-cut a case of supporting your local team. Everton was obviously the one for me!

Alan McGuffog
37 Posted 08/12/2018 at 19:22:13
A couple of years back, I was on holiday in Turkey. We got talking to this couple, as you do. "Oh you're from Liverpool," he says. "Are you a Blue or a Red." So I tell him and he starts off:

"As a matter of fact..." And I cringe, waiting for the inevitable "I'm a massive Liverpool fan" in his Tunbridge Wells accent. (Funny they're always MASSIVE, aren't they?)

"As a matter of fact, I'm a Blue as well, my dad was from Old Swan." Firm lasting friendship established.

He told me later that there are scores of Reds in his part of the world and a handful of Blues. All the Blues have a direct family connection to Liverpool though.

Paul Birmingham
38 Posted 08/12/2018 at 19:35:05
Part of the craic when going on preseason tours aside to the ale, booze and late nights, gibbing into the game, getting on the bench in Mike Walkers I'll fated season, on pre-season in Stadtlon, and the rest is history, it was always good to meet the locals and have a good talk about all matters regards football, life and culture.

There's loads of fans across Europe who support Everton, and I've always helped and assisted people when at the match, in town, or anywhere, who were lost or asked a question.

You get older and wiser, and mellow, and you make the best of life, and every day.

Go in the Wilmslow, or the old supporters club, most pubs still left around ½-mile of Goodison, and many times I've met friends and hosted upstairs doos, for visting Everton supporters clubs from the Nordics and supporters from Netherlands.

As Colin and Stan say above, here's good and bad everywhere, including Liverpool, and you give as good as you get.

For me, your an Evertonian, through thick and thin, where ever you may come from, or live and that's something.

The last 30 years has been a stern test for Evertonians; hopefully soon we will find our groove again.

Our club is very, very special.

Don Alexander
39 Posted 08/12/2018 at 19:51:24
Stan (#35), I was on that fuckin' bus – had a great time, as did the driver... upstairs!
Paul Kelly
40 Posted 08/12/2018 at 20:29:15
Confession time.

Well, Tim, I'll add I was that person many moons ago, early to late teens – weird, looking back. We grew up tribal, hating 'wools', didn't have time or appreciate non scousers shouting their ten pence worth at the match or even engage in conversation if they tried it with us (me and my mates).

There wasn't any doctrine or rules on such matters, I couldn't even say we were brought up that way (certainly not my family) but the way me and my mates who attended the games thought about 'wools', was unanimous, we didn't like them, not one bit; anyone outside the city for that matter.

It was the way it was and it was normal for us, didn't think anything of it for that matter, it was the normal. Strange looking back, but that is the way it was; strange how we knew they were Evertonians but we still didn't want to know them (time period was early nineties onwards).

Mob mentality or just as what Jay said "Ignorance or stupidity", probably both, but I remember a survey in the '90s about football teams with the most local fans to the ground and Everton were up there, top or second with the RS way down the list, I was well proud.

Then I met a bloke, Cockney Dave, travelled all over, home and away from Bermondsey watching the Blues... Shit, this foreigner was a better fan than me. I was about 17 years old when I met him and I moved abroad not long later, you grow up quick,
you realise people are just like you, they just sound different!

Now, the lad from 'The Swan' (me), lives down South, 'in that London', with two Cockney kids who love Everton as much as I do. My lads middle name is 'Everton', we go the match as often as possible, home and away. Got several mates who are as good as blues as me without the Scouse accent, some chosen, some by family association, some who just chose Everton as their club and travel all over, the most dedicated blues you'll ever meet and I respect them so much.

So I've gone the full 180°, much down to growing up as anything else, but I wouldn't worry too much about being 'Ain't no Scouse'. Pity those who think that way, you definitely ain't no glory hunter and you're more than welcome as much as anyone else, lad.

Colin Glassar
41 Posted 08/12/2018 at 20:38:47
Simon, I'm basically talking about big city people but I will never demean any Everton fan from any part of the world. Yous are all welcome lar!

I still dislike the football tourists though and the so-called celebrity fans who get into all the biggest games, eg, Jagger and Dicaprio, etc...

Chris Leyland
43 Posted 08/12/2018 at 20:57:42
I respect non-local Everton fans a great deal. You were chosen. Like Jay said in an earlier post, you have shown great resilience to be an Evertonian.

I despise non-local fans of the Red Shite. They are an embarrassment but, conversely, I love non-local Everton fans. You are knowledgeable, loyal and committed; everything a non-local (or indeed many local) Red isn't.

You are part of a special family and you are welcome to Goodison Park with open arms as far as I am concerned.

Stephen Davies
44 Posted 08/12/2018 at 21:29:07
Henrik #34,

There's a couple of Danish Blues over on the People's Forum — Copenhagen Blue, for one... Check them out.

Kunal Desai
45 Posted 08/12/2018 at 21:42:07
Tim – like you, I started following Everton in the '80s (Watford FA Cup Final, to be precise). I too live down saarf and, being a cockney, I'm proud of supporting this great club, wouldn't have it any other way.

I come across those occasionally that say to me why not support Spurs or Arsenal or Watford. I don't feel anything for teams that are local to me, for me the Everton motto really does stand for what it is – we are born not manufactured, we do not choose, we are chosen. The blood was blue back then and thirty plus years later it most definitely remains Blue.

I get to Goodison every so often, it's an entire days trip but I wouldn't have it any other way. Have met many Blues along the journey to Goodison and more recently been taking the trains to Lime Street back and forth and meeting and chatting to some great Blues along the way.

All I would say is seriously do not worry about the minority, you could single-handedly class those clowns on one hand. Every club has its few odd ones. Do not let it put you off.

The ones I know and speak to and those that I have crossed paths with, either on route, at the game, or on the journey home, are great people.


Paul Birmingham
46 Posted 08/12/2018 at 21:52:04
One Club, one Family, and being an Evertonian, is special.

The RS know, and it irks them, but going back in history is not something they like.

The past and present always passes, let's all stick together, and embrace the world.

Everton and Evertonians are on the up and the best, loyal, knowledgeable football fans — regardless of where they are from in the world. Different class and The Best.

“What's Our Name?”

Bob Parrington
47 Posted 08/12/2018 at 22:44:58
Stan #35 – Thanks. How true. I'm still laughin'.
Andy Crooks
48 Posted 08/12/2018 at 23:24:37
A number of years ago, I watched Everton's opening game of the season (I think it was a dire goalless draw) in Gumbet. I watched it along side a cockney Evertonian. An Irishman and a Londoner united in supporting Everton. I will never forget that day.

I have never had anything other than a magnificent welcome at Goodison Park. In fact, a few years ago I went with my late father-inlaw, an avid red, to see Liverpool play Sunderland. He was quite frail at the time and, frankly, the help we received even after I made my loyalties absolutely clear was superb.

Belfast, Liverpool and Glasgow. Great people.


Stan Schofield
49 Posted 08/12/2018 at 23:29:41
Bob, I've got another bus story that always tickles me, nothing to do with Everton.

Again in the 70s, I was on the bus (I think it was the 14) going along Utting Avenue away from Broadway. Ahead was a bus stop, and an arm was being held out, to tell the driver to stop. The driver duly pulled up at the stop, and it was a lad, he looked about 12 to 14. The lad said to the driver, "Hey mate, have you got change of a bluey"? It was apparent that the lad wasn't getting on the bus, he just wanted change of the 'bluey'.

The driver wasn't too chuffed having to stop his bus for that, and told the lad in no uncertain terms.

James Marshall
50 Posted 08/12/2018 at 23:43:14
I've been a blue since about 1982 (I'm 45), and I'm also from London, Home Counties by birth and where I grew up. My first visit to Goodison was 1990 having already been to a few away games in London, but I can safely say I've never experienced any grief from any scouse Evertonians.

I will admit to having felt slightly uneasy as a southern-blue at times, especially at away games since I never wear 'colours' and at London games back in the day my accent could easily have gotten me a hiding, I would imagine. One game at West Ham stands out when I definitely kept it shut amongst a train full of roudy Evertonians.

More recently, I think a lot of that has gone from supporters, or at least I still haven't experienced it – example: at Chelsea the other week, I sat next to a born-n-bred Scouse Blue whose family went way back and he was nothing but brilliant company from start to finish. Not a single mention of the fact I sounded as though I should have been sitting in the Shed End.

As some have mentioned above, it takes a lot to be a lifelong supporter of a team, and if you're not born into it by location, then in a way that makes it all the more impressive. If I was to follow my birth-location team, I'd be a Woking supporter, but I fell in love with Everton when I was about 9 and that was that. You don't really get a choice, do you?

Tim Constable
51 Posted 08/12/2018 at 23:48:37
Thank you for all your replies. Nothing has or will stop me travelling to Goodison and who knows... one day, we might actually win a trophy or two. I would happily be called a glory hunter in those circumstances!

So, in light of my renewed confidence, if anyone hears a cockney voice being a right 'gobshite' in the Lower Gwladys on Monday night, it will probably be me actually giving those around me a decent reason to give me some stick!

Colin at #33 – my local club would be Charlton, you can let me off for not going there!

Stan Schofield
52 Posted 08/12/2018 at 23:49:18
Andy @48: Dead true.

Regarding the friendliness of Scousers, I recently did a cycle ride with 3 mates, none of whom are from Liverpool. We rode from Disley (near Stockport) to Southport, along the Trans Pennine Trail, which uses the disused railway route through Liverpool.

One of the lads got a puncture, but he was all knitted out with gear, and set about changing his inner tube, whilst we had a rest. He only took about 30 minutes, but during that time, 4 passers-by offered to help him, even though he had us 3 doing nothing next to him. One bloke offered to get a bowl of water! One of the other passers-by was a young woman on a bike, she must have been about 20, who pulled over.

My mates remarked how friendly Scousers were.

Anyway, and this is the really remarkable part, on the way back from Southport to Disley, the same mate got a puncture again, near the same spot. Again, several passers-by offered help. My mates were truly impressed by the friendliness shown by the locals.

Rob Dolby
53 Posted 08/12/2018 at 23:52:36
I find it fascinating the reasons and stories behind non-scousers following the Blues.

I remember a load of lads used to follow us home and away from Stafford. I never found out why.

It's embarrassing anyone taking stick for supporting the blues from outside of the city but you always get small minded attitudes in and out of football.

Paul Kelly
54 Posted 08/12/2018 at 00:01:00
Tim, you ain't that far away from me mate, you ever want to meet up for a match, get in touch, and if I can, I will.

Same with you, Kunal, you've spoken sense many a time on these forums, so if anyone wants to arrange a meet up for a match, contact me – paulkelly1977@hotmail.co.uk.

Always good to share a game, especially if you can't make it the Old Lady, don't be shy.

Paul Kelly
55 Posted 09/12/2018 at 00:08:49
The above message was for anyone.

Get in touch if you fancy it.

Paul Birmingham
56 Posted 09/12/2018 at 00:25:21
All, wherever you are from, as Evertonians, end of story. You're all, family and welcome.

I've worked all over the UK and Europe; football and Everton brings common synergies.

At the end of a day, we are people, and let's embrace the best club, by light-years, in terms of the best supporters.

Be Blue and be proud Evertonians!


James Flynn
57 Posted 09/12/2018 at 00:31:10
NYC Evertonian.

My Club now until I'm gone.

Any Evertonian finds him/her self in the States, go here:
Link

I've been to two of those, Fado's in Northwest DC and Mr. Dennehy's way downtown in Manhattan.

Doubt you'll hear a scouse accent in either, but you'll be cheering on the lads amongst your own.

New York, DC, or another, Evertonusa is the place to go, border to border and coast to coast, if you're over here when there is a game on and you feel like sitting with fellow Blues cheering the lads on.


Andy McNabb
58 Posted 09/12/2018 at 01:08:18
One of my proudest moments as an Evertonian was seeing how welcoming people in the Park End were towards my Aussie daughter-in-law on a trip back a few years ago. She was really made to feel one of the 'family' and often talks about it.

My most depressing moments as an Evertonian – having to stop a fellow Blue with a London accent from being thrown onto the line in the Underground after a game at Chelsea by a bunch of Scallies and then standing by two Indian lads at Watford in the 80s while all around us, Everton fans sang, 'There ain't no black in the Union Jack.'

As others have said, Tim. The vast majority will welcome you but in a crowd of 40,000 people, you will always find a certain percentage of idiots.

Gary Gibson
59 Posted 09/12/2018 at 02:23:03
As a Scouse blue myself it breaks my heart. Everyone should be welcome at Goodison.
Jamie Crowley
61 Posted 09/12/2018 at 04:03:09
Andy @48 -

Belfast, Liverpool and Glasgow. Great people.

Add Boston to that mix. What's the common denominator? A bit of Irish in all of them. ;0) One legit, and three cities where green breeding occurred in large numbers. We're very handsome men, we drink a lot, ergo we spread like wildfire. And before anyone takes offense to that, please find your sense of humor or try decaf.

Regarding this whole Scouse thing, I think it's a shame that someone would be rude to another based upon an accent.

However, I'd also flip that on it's head a bit in this way:

For me one the the "coolest" things about Everton is their parochialism. It is, without question to me, a Scouse club. With that comes an identity and a culture. A wonderful one at that. Also, there seems to this outsider, to be a massive amount of pride associated with Everton – and I mean massive – and surely it's down to the Scouse DNA.

For me, any outsider had better, and should, pay homage to the Everton-Scouse thread running through the Club. It's a uniqueness that makes the Club... well... unique!

And if someone gives you a hard time, hell, just smile and tell them to have a nice day.

Or as Henrik says @34 (HILARIOUS) just "pretend" you can't understand what they say! Because you probably can't if you're not from the area! To me it might as well be fucking Swahili!

I've a great friend from the Liverpool area. His wife is from the city I believe (sounds it!). I've known her for years, and being here in the States it's not near as bad as it used to be, but she used to say entire sentences and I had absolutely no clue what she said.

I continually had to ask her to slow down when talking!

Too funny.

I absolutely love the Scouse identity of Everton. Love it. If some use that as a whipping stick to keep the Club "Scouse", bah I don't mind. I don't think they should be so close minded, and they should want outsiders to grow the fanbase, but it's not a gawd-awful thing. They just want their Club in their city to remain theirs. No harm, no foul.

In a way I want it. I want "new" fans (not too unlike myself mind you), to understand they are "joining" a Club that insists on maintaining its identity.

Steve Brown
62 Posted 09/12/2018 at 04:27:05
Colin @ 33, I was born in Mill Road Hospital in Everton and lived on Merseyside until I was 18. My sons were born in Merseyside but we moved when they were small. Subsequently, they have lived in Leeds, Vancouver and Singapore but are fanatical Blues who now both live down South.

I am not sure based on your categorisation which club they should support, but they are blues and proud of it. It is a big family and all are welcome – I actually really admire those from outside Liverpool who have chosen to support the blues. Let's be honest, it hasn't been easy going since!

Brian Porter
63 Posted 09/12/2018 at 07:27:43
Tim, don't let them get to you. You're as much a Blue as anyone who pledges their support to our great club.

I'm my case I began to lose my accent when I joined the RAF at seventeen and quickly developed what used to be known as the RAF Accent, whereby most people in the service gradually and probably subconsciously toned down their regional accents until we all sounded pretty much the same.

Fast forward many years (I'm now 65), and I'm now an author. My books do very well, particularly my Mersey Mystery series, based on the fictitious Merseyside Police, Specialist Murder Investigation Squad. However, not having lived in the city for many years, there have been many changes since my younger days so, in order to ensure accuracy in my descriptions of current locales etc, I have a lovely lady in Liverpool who works as my research assistant and keeps my books on the straight and narrow, with regards to the factual content of each novel.

Now, I spend many hours a week on the phone with Debbie, and seem to automatically revert to a Scouse accent while I'm talking to her, much to my wife's amusement. My publisher is based in Finland and their staff are naturally Finnish, so conversations tend to be in standard English as, quite naturally, English is a second language to them and we would be there all day if I spoke in a Scouse accent. They just wouldn't understand it. So I keep to Standard English.

I do find, when I talk to friends in general, that after a few minutes some people will start to smile and often tell me "Brian, your slip is showing", in other words, my ancestral accent starts to creep in to my speech.

It really doesn't matter what you sound like, it's who and what you are that counts, and after all those years, you are entitled to feel as much an Evertonian as the rest of us.

We need more like you, la', so don't give on to silly 'vocal prejudice' and keep your own accent and be proud of it. You are who you are, and when you drape that scarf round your neck you're no different to any other Everton supporter. You're simply one of us Tim. Good for you!

Geoff Trenner
64 Posted 09/12/2018 at 07:30:01
Way off topic, but have you seen this?

https://twitter.com/derekclarksport/status/1071125980721360897?s=12

Kevin Prytherch
65 Posted 09/12/2018 at 07:57:11
The irony of being called a woolyback is that the term originates (debatedly) from dockers who used to put wool on their backs when moving heavy cargo, therefore woolybacks were actually scousers.

There is an argument as well that it stems from something similar in Lancashire.

Next time you’re called a woolyback, mention the first part to see how well they know the history of the term they’re using.

David Ellis
66 Posted 09/12/2018 at 07:57:55
I'm from St Helens but have a BBC accent on account of 10 years at boarding school from the age of 8. I remember getting into fights in St Helens because of my posh accent, but never had any trouble with scousers.

The only time I had a problem was with a policeman at Highbury in the early 80s who initially refused me entry into the away end because he said “You don't sound very Evertonish”. I told him he should not make false assumptions, and he let me and my mate (fellow public school boy, but secret Leeds fan) inside.

Thomas Lennon
67 Posted 09/12/2018 at 08:52:01
The average matchgoing Evertonian lives 50 miles from Goodison Park, so there are a hell of a lot of 'wools' at every match. That area takes in Blackpool, Crewe, Rhyl and most of Greater Manchester. For every three Waltonites there is a cockney. You are amongst friends.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everton_F.C._supporters

Amit Vithlani
68 Posted 09/12/2018 at 09:49:08
What a wonderful and warming set of responses to a rather unpleasant experience for the OP. Tim, my sympathies.

I have to say, I have been fortunate to have experienced nothing but Scouse warmth inside Goodison Park, from the cabbies who have taken me from the station to the ground, or even inside pubs I have gone in for a post-match drink and meal.

I have even sat next to away fans in Goodison Park and whilst these poor buggers had to endure relentless piss-take it was all in good spirits. I travelled up from Buckinghamshire where I used to work in the mid-nineties with a mate who followed Sunderland. They beat us 3-1 and even despite the disappointment he enjoyed the trip. Perhaps there have been unsavoury incidents but I have never experienced it.

However, I can't say the same about other clubs – ironically London clubs are the worst.

As an ill-advised young man, I stupidly sat in the home end at QPR. We lost 4-2 after being down to 9 men, but when Jigsaw Barlow pulled us back to 3-2 emotion got the better of me and I let out a cry of jubilation. A few fists in the back of my head followed and when Sinton thumped in the 4th, a few more fists to the head followed.

At West Ham, we lost 2-1 and I moronically sat in the main stand. Cue another round of emotion when we equalised. I got clocked and nothing happened inside the ground, but en route to the tube station I had several missiles aimed at me, one of which smacked me flush on the cheek. I scuttled off bloodied and vowed never to sit in the home end ever again.

I accept my stupidity, but when I compare it to the treatment of away fans in Goodison Park that I have experienced, it is night and day.

Suffice to say I am surprised by Tim's experience by home fans against a fellow Blue. But I am not surprised by the hugely sympathetic and warm responses of the Blues on this thread.

I have not visited a community which is warmer, more hospitable or humourous than our highly amiable band of Blues, especially in and around the Holy Shrine that is Goodison Park.

John Keating
69 Posted 09/12/2018 at 10:07:22
Thomas, that's right.

I remember when I was a kid in Everton, just off the Brow. On a Saturday it was a mass exodus either walking along Netherfield Road, the top way, or Great Homer Street, the bottom way to Goodison Park.

I suppose it depended on how pissed you wanted to be by the time you got to the ground! So the support actually in Everton was massive.

In the late 50s and early 60s, when the bloody council decided to decant people from the City to the outskirts, Blues had to move out. Moving out of Everton did it make them and their families less Blue? Of course not. More mobility of later generations travelled further afield. They weren't lesser Evertonians either.

The supporters I admire most are those who have no history with the City and even more those from overseas. They have had the pressures of supporting other teams and yet they are Blues. Brilliant!

Gerry Quinn
70 Posted 09/12/2018 at 10:15:29
Tim James – my Dad was Kings Regiment too (a very, very proud Evertonian who never talked about the War):

https://www.paradata.org.uk/people/bryan-g-quinn

Andy Osborne
71 Posted 09/12/2018 at 11:16:00
Before I was born, my parents lived on Edge Lane. For some inexplicable reason, my Mum went to stay with her brother and I was born in Billinge hospital. Therefore consigning me to a lifetime of being a "Woollie".

From the age of 10 days to 18 years I grew up in Huyton. I left to go to uni, and no longer have a scouse accent. I live in Perth, Australia, and own a restaurant/winery.

I have many customers (regulars) who are Blue, some scouse, some not. We always have a great time chatting about our shared passion. Even though I don't know them, there is an instant connection.

The strange thing is, if I am talking to another scouser, my accent comes back instantly. I don't deliberately do this, it just happens. It is like I am taking a mask off and reverting to who I truly am. They leave and it disappears again.

My 3 boys, born in USA and Australia are true blues, but they always laugh at me when I start talking in a language they can't understand!
A Blue is a Blue, simple. No matter where they come from.

James Peter
72 Posted 09/12/2018 at 11:20:02
I'm a proud Scouser but have left at 18 for work and have lived away since. My whole family, male lineage, are Evertonians going back as far Everton have been around so I'm 'okay' if that makes sense. My two points are:

I'm bringing my kids up as Evertonians but they're not Scousers. I'm in full brain-washing mode, kits, bringing them to games, songs from birth. Room decoration, just banged up the 'Mish-mash' in my lad's room.

And as other have said, these kids have it harder growing up as we're asking them not to conform. My lads are surrounded by Man City and Man Utd fans who have dominated for the last 20 years so please give them a break!!!

Secondly, I think it's a bit of a Scouse thing in general, I think we're a territorial lot. I'll never forget while travelling, in the middle of absolutely nowhere. It was incredible there was a white Caucasian fella in this particular bar, let alone an English speaking one, who came to be British. In places such as these you're desperate for a bit of chat with someone. Couldn't believe my luck when he was a Scouser.

First question from him, "What part of Liverpool are you from?" Waterloo I answered. Then came the 'you're not from Liverpool' shout. I just thought – wow! Born in Fazakerly, Auld fella from Norris Green, brought up in Waterloo, consider myself a Scouser. Not good enough haha.

David Peate
73 Posted 09/12/2018 at 11:46:55
Accents do not bother Blues' supporters. I used to stand nearly beneath the clock at Goodison. In the mid 1950s, there was a supporter who used to stand behind me. He had one of the BBC's best cultured accent.

You could hear him all over the ground as he shouted his favourite phrase, "You utter clown, Harris". I wonder whether Jimmy Harris was ever put off by this constantly recurring cultured howl.

Mike Connolly
74 Posted 09/12/2018 at 12:02:35
Maybe I'm lucky I have never heard anyone slag off our own supporters, no matter where they are from.

When I hear an outside Accents I ask the person how they came to be a blue. Plus I know they are not band wagon jumpers. If so they would be watching the Shite etc.

Don't forget some of the supports travel miles to watch us, even on a cold windy night match. They should be made welcome more than anyone.

I'm from Wirral so I'm not classed as a scouser. Does not bother me as long as there is Everton FC.

Brian Harrison
75 Posted 09/12/2018 at 12:08:52
I don't care where fans come from to watch us, whether it be from a different part of the country with a different accent than mine. I don't care what colour they are, we are all there to support the Blues and that's what unites us.

What concerns me more than where fans come from to support us is, why has Goodison Park become so quiet. Even our Wednesday night game against Newcastle, now normally Goodison is always at its best for night games I think, but no it was just like most of the home games this season. Its like we'll start playing well and score a few goals and then we will make some noise but, until you do that, you are on your own.

How do you change the atmosphere I don't know, I mean embarrassingly over the last 5/6 seasons they are now using the scoreboard to transmit Come on you Blues messages to ask the fans to get behind the team.

This is Goodison Park where opponents feel intimidated by the crowd; surprisingly, how many ex-players say how intimidating the atmosphere at Goodison was?

So, on Monday, let's make Goodison that place opponents hate to play at and let them know just how fervent our crowd is.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

76 Posted 09/12/2018 at 12:18:18
Your opening post has certainly generated a lot of great responses, Tim.

Dave Abrahams @30 touched on one thing that also always made me (depending on who it was doing it) smile-incredulous-irritated... Dave wrote:

"Strangely when I used to travel to the away games growing up, the fans who got on my nerves were the ones whose accent grew more Scouse the further we got away from Liverpool."

That made me laugh, Dave, because it was so true of my experience also. If it was the lads you went to the game with, we'd take the piss out of them and they would rein it in. If it was 'unknowns' you would cringe at them.

Oft times, unfortunately, the exaggerated accent syndrome went hand in hand with being really obnoxious to the locals which only served to reinforce negative stereotypes about Scousers.

As for the phenomenon (which Andy Osborne touches on @71) of your Scouse accent coming back when meeting hometown Scousers again, years after you've left the city and adopted another accent, there is a linguistic reason for this.

Bidialectalism.

It's not a 'phony' thing – say, for example, putting on a posher BBC English accent in certain social situations – but largely part of the subconscious.

Interestingly, our self-perception greatly influences the strength of our local accent and our determination to maintain it. Given how Scousers in general are very parochial and have a strong affinity with the city of Liverpool and its culture, it is not surprising how the Scouse accent is retained and maintained by many, even if they move away from the city of their birth.

For anyone interested in learning more, here's a good read from an Esquire article:

Here's Why Your Accent Keeps Changing Depending Who You're With

It's an easy read, not a scholarly paper, written by a Geordie talking to a linguist, who says:

"People use language to establish bonds. But conversely, they also use it to establish barriers."

I'm guessing, Dave Abrahams, that's what those lads and their exaggerated Scouse accents were doing on away trips all those years ago. Possibly feeling insecure going into 'enemy territory', they used their Scouseness both as a means to bond with fellow Blues, but also as a shield to protect themselves.

Wayne Dinkelman
77 Posted 09/12/2018 at 12:22:01
As an Evertonian born and bred in Australia, I remember going to watch them live when they played in Brisbane, the single greatest day of my life bar the birth of my children.

But one of the biggest memories of that night was being abused by two fellow Blues that had traveled from Liverpool to watch the tour, the fact that I wasn't a real supporter because I wasn't from Liverpool, and the fact I didn't sing the whole time the game was on, was enough for them to constantly abuse me.

Mind you, they didn't actually watch the game; they had their backs to it the whole time and were more interested in drinking and shouting then watching.

I may never make it to Goodison, I may get to feel the old lady rocking but I sit up watching till 4 am every week, sleep on Everton sheets, drive around with EFC number plates, and my son's middle name is Everton, but to some that still doesn't make me a real supporter.

But to hell with them I bleed blue through and through and it would take a lot more then that to stop me supporting the Toffees. But just remember — it doesn't matter if you're born 5 km away or 10,000 km; if Blue is the colour of your heart, then we should all be family.

Mike Connolly
78 Posted 09/12/2018 at 12:48:24
Having trouble not speaking Scouse. Try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_C4PDSfQJA

John G Davies
79 Posted 09/12/2018 at 12:48:46
"It's not a 'phony' thing – say, for example, putting on a posher BBC English accent in certain social situations – but largely part of the subconscious."

Have a listen to Esther McVey Jay.

She goes from Thatcher to Cilla Black in the same sentence.

John Keating
80 Posted 09/12/2018 at 12:51:27
Well said, Wayne.
Jeff Armstrong
81 Posted 09/12/2018 at 13:18:10
Brian #75, you're quite correct about the lack of atmosphere... lack of original songs, etc at Goodison Park.

It makes me wonder why everyone is getting in a lather over the potential design of our potential new ground — steep traditional stands? bowl-shaped? running track or not?

It won't matter whatever we get, cos we can't even generate any atmosphere in the most traditional original stadium in the Premier League!

Dave Abrahams
82 Posted 09/12/2018 at 14:02:32
Jay (76),

I can slightly understand using accents for various reasons but always feel better being myself. I mean, Jay, if someone doesn't like me, accent or not, at my age, it doesn't cut deep.

My wife had a sister, Ada, an absolute genuine girl, sadly no longer with us, she went to live in America, never lost her Scouse accent after 30 years of being there. Anyway, she loved coming back to Liverpool, she'd laugh after coming from town, telling us "I love hearing the Scouse accent and the people, standing at a bus stop or in a queue. Scousers will tell you their life story while they are standing with you; you never get that in The States."

I've gone off the gist of being a non-scouser and a football supporter but you might get what I mean, people are people and we are all different.

Derek Taylor
83 Posted 09/12/2018 at 15:16:19
My 'ole gal' is currently following the re-run on the Talking Pictures channel (Sky 328) of a '70s serial drama 'Family at War' – based, it is claimed, on the travails of a large Liverpool family.

She tells me that, by halfway through the 50 odd episodes, she has yet to hear even a semblance of a scouse accent and neither a mention of Everton nor the other side.

I've suggested to her that maybe they 'speaks proper' in Speke – the apparent setting of the filming – and in those days, folks 'up there' all followed South Liverpool whom I hear had an excellent wartime side!

Alan J Thompson
84 Posted 09/12/2018 at 15:23:51
Derek(#83); Speke, I always thought it was meant to be Aigburth where I believe De Gaulle spent a large part of the war.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

85 Posted 09/12/2018 at 15:38:24
John @ 79 and Dave @ 82.

John, I have absolutely NO IDEA who Esther McVey, and I have ZERO interest in finding out.

Read the link I posted. The phenomenon is a real one, with the subconscious the main driving force.

Of course, there are all manner of situations an individual may 'affect' an accent, some deliberately. But those who spontaneously start speaking their (near redundant) local dialect and accent later, on reflection, often think: "Where the hell did that come from?! Why did I do that?!"

Me own Ma, bless her soul, spoke raw Irish-Scouse all her life and dwelt the bulk of her years in the city of Liverpool. And yet...and yet...

The only very infrequent alcohol tipple I saw pass her lips was sherry, at family-dos and weddings. All the family waited with great anticipation for the inevitable: when she got tipsy, she started speaking like the Queen, in 'Received Pronunciation'. It cracked us up every time. And every time we mentioned it the following day, she would vehemently deny it: 'Youse are 'avin' me on. Aways wid ya!'

In examples like Andy Osborne shares @ 71, even though it is many decades since he left Liverpool and even though he now speaks daily in a different accent, as soon as he starts speaking with true Scousers down under, his own subconscious kicks in and he reverts to the Scouse accent himself, totally NOT deliberately, as he says.

This signals to me how strong Andy's own roots and cultural inheritance is that this occurs. It's something to treasure. And, like me Ma and her sherry drinking was to me, is a great source of mirth to his sons!

Dave Abrahams
86 Posted 09/12/2018 at 15:44:08
Derek (83), I remember that series, "Family at War". There was one character, one of the sons, what a cryin' moaning bastard he was. One of my mates when talking about it would say "Did you see Family at War last night, that 'fuckin' sad tales' was on again. I bet he's a fuckin' Liverpool supporter, always fuckin' whinging."

Derek, ask your wife about it, she'll know the character and I bet she agrees. Don't mention my mate swearing; we didn't know it then because it hadn't been diagnosed, but he suffered from Tourette's Syndrome. He still does but doesn't take anything for it. I think I've caught a bit of it off him.

Derek Taylor
87 Posted 09/12/2018 at 16:04:02
Alan, Aigburth it was, according to the Wikapedia reference point. But my old man always told us the area where 'they' played cricket (he said it with scorn!) was just the posh end of Speke!

And, Dave, the missus says she knows the character to whom you refer – he's just been made an RAF officer but he's still moaning! (He's named Dave!!!)

Jamie Crowley
88 Posted 09/12/2018 at 16:15:48
This entire post has been a favorite of mine. I can relate entirely.

I was born in Boston. My father (fah-thah) grew up in Southie – that's South Boston. An old Irish, kind of rough if you will but lovable, neighborhood.

I live in Florida now and have for years, and moved from Boston very young. I always, always wondered why, when my Aunts and Uncles visit, or when we travel to New England, many of my words start to "slip".

I suffer from Bidialectalism. And I'm thrilled to now know what the hell it is.

TYVM Jay Wood.

John G Davies
89 Posted 09/12/2018 at 16:22:06
A tory politician, Jay.

And she defines the word "phony" and refutes your point. She didn't pick that accent up in her owl fellers demolition yard on Vauxhall Road.

Dave Abrahams
90 Posted 09/12/2018 at 16:33:29
Derek (87), yes, he was in the RAF in my memory his name was Derek, but you are most probably right!!!
Terry White
91 Posted 09/12/2018 at 17:00:08
I live on the Florida Panhandle, Jamie (#88), where are you?
Ray Roche
92 Posted 09/12/2018 at 17:33:23
Alan J Thompson @84

Where did you hear that De Gaulle had lived in Aigburth, Alan? I have never heard that before.

Anyway, Aigburth is just Speke with napkins.

Paul Kelly
93 Posted 09/12/2018 at 17:41:54
Dr Gaulle lived in Petts Wood, not far from where I am now, according to a print on the wall of a pub in that area I frequent.
Ray Roche
94 Posted 09/12/2018 at 17:49:31
Paul, that's in London? I knew De Gaulle lived in London and also Worcester but the Aigburth connection is new to me.
Paul Kelly
97 Posted 09/12/2018 at 18:10:23
Yeah Ray, it's a borough of Bromley. North Kent, South East Greater London.
Martin Mason
98 Posted 09/12/2018 at 18:17:20
My parents are Scousers from Aigburth/Dingle but I was born in Altrincham, us having moved to Northwich. At primary school there, my teachers hated it and tried everything to get rid of my perceived scouse accent, short o fbeating it out of me.

I lost it in the end and picked up the mid-Cheshire twang which I've maintained through university and 40 years of working in industries where most people develop fake posh accents.

I used to use the train to get to the game and was always getting accused of being a Manc, of being a cockney, and even being a Norwich fan (I had a Northwich Vics badge on my jacket). Otherwise, no trouble – and there were a lot of Evertonians in the Northwich area.

I loved the scouse accent and the humour of the scouse people from 50 years ago when I used to spend a fair amount of time in the City (staying at my Nan's). I've despaired at how it seemed to self-destruct during the strikes and militant eras but am very pleased to see how it has recovered.

I sailed up there now and again and went up to see the Garden Festival, the dockside is brilliant and the festival area unrecognisable. I'm not scouse but there are a lot of very good Evertonians who aren't.

I don't get to the game now but I used to go up on motorbike from Horsham and met many lads from the South Coast going up. Our supporter base in London is very strong from what I've read.

Derek Taylor
99 Posted 09/12/2018 at 18:50:46
I do know from my days in the Worcestershire Regiment that De Gaulle lived first at Malvern College and later at a house owned by the Bishop of Worcester near Bewdley. This latter property was a training base for many would-be Resistance workers, most of whom lost their lives on returning to France.

The property was sold for c £500k early this year!

David Pearl
100 Posted 09/12/2018 at 18:57:23
Very interesting post. I wouldn't've guessed to so many Evertonians relating. I remember on a trip to an ice rink in the Swan early 80s, a friend of mine got hit on the back of his head with someone's skates because we were waiting on a bus to St Helen's.

Anyway... I have a spare ticket to the game tomorrow evening. Free of course to the first person that wants it. Send me an email with your mobile number: okds-live@outlook.com
ps: No Wools or Cockneys!!

Pat Whitmore
101 Posted 09/12/2018 at 20:51:21
My dad was born in London but supported Villa all his life (sadly passed away suddenly in 2009 and it still hurts like hell). I was born in London and we moved to Birmingham when I was four. My dad worked at Halewood in the late 60s and early 70s for a while.

When I was young he took me to Goodison to watch Everton play the Villa with some of his old work mates. I had already been to the Villa but instantly fell in love with Everton and still support them now (50 last week). He would take me to watch them all over the country whenever he could and he never moaned once.

My second daughter chose to go to Liverpool Uni and still lives and works there now so I can get up to more home games when visiting and she always buys me tickets when I'm coming. I've never had any abuse only friendship and the hairs still stand up on the back of my neck every time I go to a game home or away.

My plan once I retire is to move to Liverpool, get my season ticket, and never miss a game again — you can't help who you support.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

102 Posted 09/12/2018 at 20:59:41
Erhm... John @ 89:

"...she defines the word "phony" and refutes your point."

You do understand that the linguistic theory of bidialectalism is not my own? (Though I wish it were...).

That I am simply sharing a well-known linguistic theory with you?

That it was first proposed 60-70 years ago and has been widely studied in many researches since?

And that (as mentioned in my posts) there are 'phonies' who affect an accent and discourse they don't 'own'? (politicians do it all the time, switching their 'tone' depending on the audience, as probably is the case with the Tory MP you reference).

That it doesn't just stop at imitating the speech pattern and accents of others, but also their body postures also?

The latter probably has more to do with psychology than linguistics and also has a label - mirroring. It has been recognized in new-born babies, just days old, imitating the facial expressions of their carers.

Again, it is the subconscious (primarily) at work and is not intended to mock the other, but rather for both to feel a rapport and better disposed to the other.

Of course, it is open to abuse and manipulation by those familiar with the phenomenon.

Jamie Crowley
103 Posted 09/12/2018 at 21:12:19
Terry @ 91 -

Ponte Vedra – just outside Jacksonville. My son is in Tallahassee at Florida State University – not too terribly far. If I get out that way on a weekend and the Blues are playing, I'll post as such and, if you're up for it, we can hit a pub and watch the game.

There's quite a few Florida Blues. We should do a derby get-together or some such thing.

Kase Chow
104 Posted 09/12/2018 at 21:32:07
Kunal #45, where do you live mate?

Amit #68, same question to you too pal?

You both sound of Indian heritage and from London am wondering if you're nearby me? I live in Harrow sides.

This thread is very interesting. I always used to wonder whether I ‘belong' given I'm so remote from Liverpool

But I've suffered and suffered and suffered. I don't wonder any more – I know I belong because I've paid for it in continuous heartache over the years. We've been mainly very poor since I first started supporting the Blues (1986) (obviously 1987 aside) and I'd LOVE to be called a glory hunter cos it'd mean we'd won something

Tim, sorry about your experiences, mate. Those numpties can go do one – who are they to decide the credentials of a fan? Complete idiots.

Mark Murphy
105 Posted 09/12/2018 at 21:45:38
Martin, if you fancy a pre-Xmas pint with a Wool Blue, I'll be in the Bedford for the Spurs game on the 23rd.

I'll be the smaller of the two wearing the Blue Everton Chrimbo jumper!

Kim Vivian
106 Posted 09/12/2018 at 21:59:53
Well I thought I'd chip in with my two penny'orth.

Having been born, lived and grown in my formative years variously in or near Newcastle, Dunfermline, Blackpool, Bristol, Portsmouth, Leicester, Bromborough, a short spell in South Africa and now 35 years in Tunbridge Wells (nearest club currently of any top flight merit probably Brighton or maybe Palace), I guess I could say, using Colin G's theory, that any one of those could have attracted my allegiances.

I first started regularly going to Pompey until we moved to the Wirral. My old man passed away while we lived there so the remaining family settled there and I moved down south in '79. While on Merseyside I went to Goodison Park regularly with a mate and an old friend of his and the Everton stranglehold grabbed me. I have 3 sons all born in Kent and they have followed me, responded well to treatment, and are solid Evertonians.

Sadly, we only occasionally get to Goodison due to the paucity of tickets but when we do, usually sitting in the Upper Bullens, there is never any "accent animosity". On the contrary people are interested in where we are from and a surprising number have a connect of some sort with the area or county. I tend to slip back into my Wirrallian scouse but they have accents from down here (which is not remotely Cockney I hasten to say). It's never been an issue with you mostly lovely people.

Insofar as local Evertonions go down here, there are a fair few who we stumble across. Many RS and Manc plastic fans of course – but you know when you meet a fellow Toffee he is likely a true Blue and there is always an instant camaraderie. It would be interesting to hear from any ToffeeWebbers who may also be Men of Kent (and Kentishmen... please feel free to contribute!).

That all having been said I am shortly heading into the Kentish boondocks otherwise known as Romney Marsh but my footballing heart will remain firmly in Walton, L4 until Bramley-Moore Dock happens. So Good health, Festive Happiness and Best Christmas wishes to all Evertonians, ToffeeWebbers or not, wherever on the planet you find yourselves.

Slaint, Sante, Skal, Proost, Na zdravi, Salute, lechyd da, Gesondheid
Cheers! - Please feel free to reply in your own language!

John G Davies
107 Posted 09/12/2018 at 22:06:33
Jay,

That's all a bit above my intellectual level, to be honest. I generally use my intuition. I can spot a phony a mile off.

Andy Crooks
108 Posted 09/12/2018 at 22:18:29
Accent is a strange thing. My own, as those who were at the Midland last week will confirm, is tight voweled and aggressive, as if every consonant costs a pound. Just a few miles south, I have pals who can say, "Jeesus, oive just been told I've a week te live", and it sounds upbeat.

In my accent "I have just won ten million pounds on the lottery, so I have", sounds like a death sentence.

To me, the Scouse accent makes every statement sound like repartee. The Dublin accent, like an offer of a pint. The Glaswegian, like a challenge to a fight. Birmingham, like a long-held grudge. Geordie, like a request to dance — and Bostonian... well, I haven't a clue, Jamie.

Paul Birmingham
109 Posted 09/12/2018 at 22:56:16
Kim @106, superb. Great story and life is a journey and EFC is life.

We all adapt to life, where ever where from, or go, and travel to, and stay or make home.

Evertonians!

Dan Davies
110 Posted 09/12/2018 at 22:58:55
I was in the main stand before, everything great. Until me and a mate started talking in a Welsh accent. There was two young blokes maybe in their early twenties. Definitely Scouse by their accents, as soon as they overheard us it was like they sniffed the air and smelt shit – no word of a lie!

They moved seats as far as they could get from us! Which at the time I thought was very rude. They also kept looking at us suspiciously all game!

However, I've also been in the Gwladys jumping around like a madman with all the locals, not a problem!

Paul Birmingham
111 Posted 09/12/2018 at 23:07:15
Pat Slavin, Top Man, RIP, was the True Boss for Evertonians, for getting tickets, for trains and coaches, when working the smoke, in the building boom days of 80s, and early 90s.

Top Man, Gent, and 100% Evertonian.

John G Davies
112 Posted 09/12/2018 at 23:54:25
Jay, 102,

Fair enough Jay, that is far above my intelligence level. I suppose we can't have it all, there are always going to be different levels of IQ and different useful information stored.

I didn't understand a biodynamic theory. You didn't know who Esther McVey was. No harm done.

Gary Russell
113 Posted 10/12/2018 at 03:51:11
Andy Osbourne, I may have met you in a bar in Singapore a few seasons ago on preseason with your two mates?

My Scouse twang was certainly the instigator for me getting a job aboard a Norwegian Longline fishing vessel at the turn of the millennium.

Sat at a bar a few hours north of Bergen, I got talking to the ship's main engineer next to me. When he heard I was looking for werrkk, incredulous, he asked me to repeat it several times before cracking up and laughing his head off. Two days later, I was on board the MV Skarheim and a year of fishing trips followed.

For the last decade, my accent hides subconsciously as I help Taiwanese kids to learn English. It shows itself occasionally, without warning and can produce amusing results, especially with a group of cute six-year-olds responding to me and flashcards; apple, cat, spooon, then forrkk — which is what I was screaming in the 95th minute of the derby.

Alan J Thompson
114 Posted 10/12/2018 at 05:45:24
Derek (#87) & Ray (#92); I don't know about Speke with napkins as you had to pass through Garston but it was near the start of the "desert" from Aigburth Vale to the Dingle as there was not a pub to be found.

As for the De Gaulle bit, I can't remember how or who from but it was nearly 50 years ago when I heard it. I think it came up in a conversation (funnily enough it may have been during a cricket match at Aigburth, Odyssey's/Blue Funnel's ground) when talk was of a German bomber coming down on a sandbank in the river and somebody's Dad throwing bricks at them.

Dave Richman
115 Posted 10/12/2018 at 06:54:10
I'm a 'wool' from Birkenhead, but moved to South Africa 40 odd years ago. It took a bit of work to keep my accent, although it's nowhere near what it used to be.

I have met loads of Blues in South Africa, and as others have said, you meet them in the most unlikely places but we always seem to find each other and have a laugh and a chat.

Most Blues I meet here tend to be exiled Scousers (and wools), but there are also many local South Africans, and these lads are as committed and fanatical as the rest of us.

I'm sure many of you have seen the video in the following link, but it's always worth another look, and it demonstrates the depth of feeling for our club, even among people with no historical or local connection to the club.

Link

I know Elton personally, and he's a great lad and a top Blue, but this was the first time he had been to Goodison Park. you can see in the video what it meant to him.

David Pearl
116 Posted 10/12/2018 at 09:45:11
Great link, Dave.
Stan Schofield
117 Posted 10/12/2018 at 10:21:01
Gary@113: It's interesting that you mention Norway. I think that Norwegian sounds similar to Scouse. I used to go there a lot for work, and it always struck me that way. My wife was sceptical until I took her to Oslo.

Soon after, we were on a train from Manchester to Liverpool, and there were four young adults from Liverpool sat near us. We were struck by how their 'background conversation' sounded similar to that we'd heard in Norway.

Subsequently, I read a book by Melvyn Bragg, called 'The Adventure of English'. In it, he points out the Scandinavian origins of words like 'kecks' and 'work', and the link to certain words sounding the way they do, like 'wirkk' for 'work' in certain parts of the Liverpool accent.

He links this to the Norwegian Viking invasion of the West coast, plus the Danish Viking invasion of the East coast in the case of dialects like the Newcastle one. Here, for example, the use of 'like' by Scousers and Geordies has Nordic origin, the letter 'k' being prevalent in Northern European languages.

Maybe a lot of folks know this already, but I must admit I didn't, and I found it interesting.

Mike Doyle
118 Posted 10/12/2018 at 12:37:10
Interesting topic and comments. I'm from Old Swan originally but have lived 'daaaarn Saaarf' for 35 years.

Most people in the South guess I'm from somewhere in the North. Most people in Liverpool think I'm a southerner. A few years back I was asked by a barmaid in the Childwall 5 Ways (a regular old haunt from my youth) which part of London I was from!

One thing I have noticed is that the Liverpool accent has changed markedly over the last 30 years. As a youngster most of my older cousins (now in their 70s) spoke like Paul McCartney still does.

Today's Liverpool accent sounds very different. To my ear the young male voice sounds much higher pitched and (to my ear) quite effeminate. The young female voice sounds even higher pitched.

Like other commenters, I've heard the exaggerated accent on display – not just at football grounds but in other environments too.
And finally, Tim. At no time while growing up in Liverpool, or since, have I heard anyone speak like Cilla used to... or use the phrase "Lorra, Lorra".

John G Davies
119 Posted 10/12/2018 at 13:39:23
Mike 118,

Me neither. I've also never heard a scouser call anyone "chuck" like Cilla Black did.

Gary Russell
120 Posted 10/12/2018 at 14:12:55
Alright Stan, that Norwegian had no idea what I meant and couldn't believe it when I explained I was saying 'work.' He was in his twenties, too, and spoke good English.
Derek Taylor
121 Posted 10/12/2018 at 14:16:15
Stan @117, throughout my six years in 'the Wusters', all the locals referred to it as 'worrk' and lost no opportunity of telling the half-dozen Scousers on my posting that "There's no such thing as wherk – although what would you scaas gits know about it?"

This prejudice followed us throughout our service even after the Sherwood Forresters absorbed us into their ranks. Don't talk to me about bloody Midlanders – east or west !

Stan Schofield
122 Posted 10/12/2018 at 14:32:58
Derek@121:

Well, trouble is, we encounter people who are basically a bit stupid, who tend to work (or wirkk) on stereotypes rather than reality, who continue to churn out the tired old chestnuts of Scousers nicking cars or being lazy scallies, of Harry Enfield's 'calm down, calm down' brand of pseudo-Scouser.

I suppose one of the skills we learn in life is how to minimise our contact with such clots, and maximise our contact with more engaging and enlightened folks.

Therein lies one of the attractions of ToffeeWeb.

Mike Gaynes
123 Posted 10/12/2018 at 15:36:16
My deepest condolences to those whose accents make them stand out in a crowd of Scousers. I'm fortunate in that my accent helps me blend in so thoroughly...

Yeah, right.

The hopeful pattern to all these stories is that they took place in the past, mostly the distant past. (Wayne #77's story is the most outrageous – morons coming to YOUR country and abusing you for your accent.) I certainly didn't encounter anything like this on my visits.

Jay says "To adopt the Blues as your chosen team as an 'outsider' gives you even greater credence in my eyes, especially in recent years." In the Chicago patois I grew up with, fuckin' ay!

Andy #198, your last paragraph is sheer poetry. I'm still chuckling.

Mike Gaynes
124 Posted 10/12/2018 at 15:41:47
Jamie #88, that's funny, because of your first name I always thought you were a Scottish transplant, perhaps from childhood. I spent a few years in New England myself, and you're the first Jamie I've ever heard of, because every Bostonian born "James" is usually known as Jimmy until he's 103 years old.
Mike Doyle
125 Posted 10/12/2018 at 15:46:12
John #119, Out of interest, have you ever heard anyone in Liverpool use the expression "Wack"?

The 3 most 'scouse' environments I ever worked in (mid 1970s - early 80s) were: (1) the old Fruit & Veg Market on Edge Lane; (2) the Post Office sorting centre, Copperas Hill; and (3) the old Kwik Save Supermarket (St Chad's Parade, Kirkby).

The word "La" was popular/ regularly used, but never 'Wack' (or 'Chuck' now you mention it).

Is Wack an urban myth?

... and one for Tim: I've never heard anyone down here say "cor blimey, Guv'nor" or "stone the crows, Mary Poppins". Any thoughts.

Terry White
126 Posted 10/12/2018 at 16:14:23
Thanks, Jamie (#103), I am a couple of hours from Tallahassee in
Panama City Beach. I suspect the majority of the Florida Blues are around Miami and Orlando, certainly none that I know near me.
Darren Hind
127 Posted 10/12/2018 at 19:33:43
Really educational thread.

That De Gaulle got everywhere, didn't he?

Steve Ferns
128 Posted 10/12/2018 at 19:35:30
Interesting thread. I’ll have to have a good read of this after the game.
Nick Lacey
129 Posted 10/12/2018 at 20:21:19
Kase 104. A London blue. I am also living in Harrow. I'm a couple of minutes walk from Harrow Wealdstone station. Where in Harrow are you?
Steve Johnston
130 Posted 13/12/2018 at 13:25:45
Interesting thread this .

Wasn't it the late great Andy "Is Our" King, who said he was a Scouser with a funny accent? Got no problem with fellow Blues not being Scousers, its better than them being Kopites! (or Man Utd, Chelsea etc).

As for myself, born in Sefton General Hospital (mid-60s) and lived in Liverpool (mostly Halewood) until mid 90s when I came to Nottingham (university originally). There's a few Evertonians where I work (some of them Scousers). Plus, always fun to get a Scouser on the phone, as the first 2 questions are, "whereabouts?" (in Liverpool are we from) and "Red or Blue?" It nearly always means a good start to a work-related matter (unless they're a Kopite!).

Jamie Crowley
131 Posted 13/12/2018 at 14:21:51
Mike @124 -

I’m properly “James Clinton Crowley IV”.

Proceeded by Great-Grandfather Clint, Grandpa Jim, and my Dad Jimmy, or later in life Jim. My Mum was sick of Jims, so she went with Jamie. She thought it sounded more “Irish” and went with it. All my brothers and sisters have “Irish” names. Mom wouldn’t have it any other way.

My oldest is the fifth, and we went with JC.

Jamie, as you know, in the states is now primarily a female name, but there’s a few of us male versions out there.

But you’re spot on. New England is full of Jimmys. Jimmy here, Jimmy there, Jimmy everywhere. Usually from a “New England Mutt” Irish-Italian family. My Mom was 100% Irish - a rarity now in the USA, and my Dad was 1/2 Irish, 1/2 Italian.

I married a second generation bo-hunk (Hungarian majority) woman, so we’ve sired American kids without a doubt, as they’re “watered down” enough to have no real nationality majority in their bloodline.

But I still make them identify with Irish. Never had, as you thought, any Scottish roots. They eat the corned beef, love the shepard’s pie, and hang with their old man in the pubs to watch the footy when I can drag them to do so. ;0). Their name is Crowley, so to me it’s a no-brainer. Plastic is as plastic does

I’m the only dope in the fam who occasionally suffers from this bidialectal thingy - “shut the fahk up” or “get in the damn cahr” or “green monstah” or “lobstah” and the like. Usually after drinking or hanging with family. Usually both come to think of it...

Mike Gaynes
132 Posted 13/12/2018 at 15:00:00
Ah, Jamie, sure and we're all Irish, don't ya know. I love the corned beef, the shepherd's pie, the pubs and the footy as well. And I'm 100% Ashkenazic. Not a drop of anything else, according to 23 And Me.

Funny story for ya... when I moved to Rhode Island in 1987, I was recruited by the captain of a local men's team who was desperate for a striker. Trouble was the club (Holliston) was for Irish only. I'm a fairly gifted mimic, so I imitated the captain's Kerry accent. For two years. Told the other players my Jewish grandparents had emigrated to Killarney. They never asked more questions.

Nobody figured out until nearly the end of my second season that I was a fake. (As an Irishman and a striker. )

Peter Gorman
133 Posted 13/12/2018 at 15:24:35
Jamie - your mother should have gone with Jamesons.

OK, I'll get my coat.

Peter Gorman
134 Posted 13/12/2018 at 16:10:53
Dave Richman @115 - made up for Elton and seeing Pienaar reminded me of the video the club made about his return

Link

At 2:00 his girls know the score. Born not manufactured.

Andrew Grey
135 Posted 13/12/2018 at 16:43:33
I was born on the Isle of Wight, can't get much more southern than that.

I have been a blue since 1968 (4 years old) and have never had any comments about my accent ever. It has always been an absolute pleasure to travel to Goodison Park and have held a season ticket since 1982 and hope to do so for as long as I can afford it and am able to walk up the stairs!

I'm just grateful that I lived and was able to enjoy the fantastic few years we had in the '80s and really hope our younger fans can experience the same soon!

My Grandson is 6 now and his 2nd game will be the Lincoln FA Cup tie. His first trip to Goodison was a 3-0 loss to Chelsea, my first trip was a 3-0 loss to Southampton in '74 so I did tell him it can get better!

Dave Abrahams
136 Posted 13/12/2018 at 17:31:33
Darren (127) " That De Gaulle got everywhere, didn't
he": I wonder if he ever bumped into Hitlers cousin
when he was in Liverpool, Billy Hitler was reputed to
work in Liverpool, as waiter, lived around Duke Street so the story goes. I bet no one told him their soup was too cold.
John McFarlane Snr
137 Posted 13/12/2018 at 18:57:32
Hi Dave [136],

I am submitting this post from a rehab facility. On Friday, December 7th, I suffered a fall (backwards) from halfway up the stairs at home. I spent 5 days in Southport Hospital, and while the X-ray photos did not show any fractures (hip), or breaks (ribs), I can only walk with the aid of a walking frame,

It's my opinion that television is the root cause of out-of-town support, I believe that a person has the right to support any club, irrespective of their geographical location. You and I are of a generation when a Barnsley lad interested in football, would support Barnsley, and his hero would be Tommy Taylor.

The only football regalia in those far off days was a scarf in the colours of the local club, but I would wager that, in Barnsley today, you are likely to see the tops etc. of Liverpool, Manchester United, Manchester City, Arsenal, and Chelsea.

Having said that, I respect the right of any individual to support the club of their choice, I do feel there is a percentage who are followers of clubs that happen to be 'flavour of the month.

By the way, does a self-inflicted injury (in this case, carelessness) constitute a good enough reason for a get-together? My Young Lady claims it doesn't.

David Pearl
138 Posted 13/12/2018 at 19:20:57
Hope you're back on your feet soon, John, if we can't find a striker in January, we may need you.
Paul Smith
139 Posted 13/12/2018 at 19:43:21
Andrew, I was born in Liverpool but now work on the Isle of White. Still got the scouse accent, left when I was 16.

It’s a beautiful place, the Island. Gets an unfair press IMO.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

140 Posted 13/12/2018 at 20:32:47
John @ 137.

A man of your wisdom and advanced years should know better than to be practising Parkour indoors (ask yer grandson!) and doing back-flips half-way up the stairs!

Still, nothing broken, other than bruised (pride..?) by the sounds of it.

Get well soon, fellah.

Mike Gaynes
141 Posted 13/12/2018 at 20:44:07
John, my friend, feel better soon and please no more Evel Knieval imitations. Delighted nothing was broken.

I will be sending you a crash helmet for Christmas.

John McFarlane Snr
142 Posted 13/12/2018 at 21:19:10
Hi Jay [140], you got half of your assessment right, [the advanced years point], I'm not so sure regarding the wisdom bit. It hasn't been a particularly good year for me, but the good wishes expressed by some 'ToffeeWebbers' has reinforced my belief that our love of football in general, and Everton in particular, has shown the character of the true Evertonian.

I will ask Josh, what Parkour indoors is, in return you may be able to tell me what 'Mordor' is, I have seen it in some posts involving Liverpool FC — do not comply if it is offensive or obscene in any way.

Hi Mike [141], it's nice to hear from you again, I trust you enjoyed the programmes, if you e-mail me with your address I'll dig out a few more.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

143 Posted 13/12/2018 at 21:50:43
Mordor, John, is the realm of the evil wizard from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Thus, the association by some wags with t'other place across the park from Goodison.

Jamie Crowley
144 Posted 13/12/2018 at 22:58:52
John Mc Snr -

Be well. Rest and recuperate.

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky, Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone, Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die, One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its black gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep; the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust.

Dave Abrahams
145 Posted 14/12/2018 at 10:46:49
John Mac (#137) sorry to hear of your accident, a fall is no good to anyone at any age, at your / our age, it definitely shakes you up. Take care and get yourself fit.

Best wishes for a quick recovery.

John McFarlane Snr
146 Posted 14/12/2018 at 10:51:23
Hi Jay [140] and Jamie [141] many thanks for your assistance, my literary knowledge was confined to the 'Charles Buchan Football Monthly' [1s/6p] and any other football-related books, such as the 'Empire News' annual issue, which evolved via the News of the World Year Book, into the Rothman's publication that we have today.

I'm afraid that football ruled my life in my younger days, and I only found out that there was a bit of bother in Rhodesia in the mid 60s, when I accidentally stumbled on to a front page headline which stated 'Ian Smith's position under threat' I asked my mate "Who does he play for?" his reply of "He's Rhodesia's top man" didn't clarify the situation.

John McFarlane Snr
147 Posted 14/12/2018 at 11:25:18
Hi Dave [145] thanks for your good wishes, this rehab unit created for people who are deemed borderline cases (not considered serious enough to warrant hospitalisation, but in need of rest and recuperation) is based in a Skelmersdale care home. You wouldn't believe how good it feels to be one of the youngest residents, but I'm afraid that many of them are in their own little world.

Josh has been invited to attend Finch Farm sometime in the near future. You may recall me saying, that he went along when he was about 9 or 10 and they said that they would keep an eye on him. I suppose now that he represents West Lancs Boys, and if he's any good, this could be his big chance.

I'm thinking of proposing at our next get together, that we move our headquarters from the Midland Hotel to a care home, each member to be given (in turn) a choice of venue; I can't wait for Mike Gaynes's choice in downtown Chicago.

Martin Mason
148 Posted 14/12/2018 at 17:54:04
Mike Doyle @125,

In the late 50s and 60s at least, 'wack' and 'wacker' were in common usage.

John CharlesG
149 Posted 14/12/2018 at 22:25:32
I was born in manchester and adopted as a young kid after spending time in foster care. My late adopted dad was a blue from Childwall 5 ways. I am 42 now and have been going to Goodison since I was 8. Less so in the last few years but I still go when I can.
I can sympathise with the OP's point of view to an extent as I sound pretty manc and sometimes when I lose my rag at us or the ref I do catch some looks !
Tend to go on my own these days since dad passed 2 years ago. Worked and lived in mcr for 25 years now and always an interesting conversation when I meet new people my end who ask who I support!
Once Everton has touched you...etc never truer in my case as I can't imagine anything else!
Twist on this is 3 years ago I was contacted my birth mother who had originally name me Colin after Colin Bell!
I am really a mixed bag I guess.
Some of my vivid memories are the 4-4 draw in the Cup.
Big Nev coming out after halftime early sitting against the post after what looked like a dressing room dust-up and our last Championship walk round the pitch!

Always loved TW.

COYB.

Jonny

John McFarlane Snr
150 Posted 15/12/2018 at 11:02:03
Hi Jonny [149], As I have stated in a previous post I have no problems with out of town or overseas supporters, Evertonians are Evertonians, full stop. I was merely pointing out that television plays a major part in the direction in which a football based loyalty is channelled.

Huddersfield boys would support Huddersfield Town; Cardiff boys would follow Cardiff City etc. Unfortunately there are some who latch on to the more successful clubs and jump ship when things go wrong. I suppose it's a case of each to his own, but my idea of a supporter is of as life-long partnership through good times and bad.

Apologies if that sounds like a bit of a lecture.

Alan J Thompson
151 Posted 17/12/2018 at 13:27:22
Next will be that we are all left-footers, born in the Dingle, work on the docks, find things near wagons, married to a bird called Bridgette, have ten kids, live in one of those post-war suburbs, work in Fords, and admire statues of naked men.

If that doesn't define all Evertonians, it could be because it isn't true!

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.



Notice: Undefined index: country in /var/www/vhosts/toffeeweb.com/httpdocs/includes/reader-comments.php on line 210
© ToffeeWeb