Why are Everton so bad at picking managers?

Arsenal had Wenger for 22 years, was it? Alex Ferguson must have been at United for a similar period. In a slightly shorter period of time Mourinho and Guardiola must have almost have run out of moneyed clubs that they haven't already been and I rule out a lot of Leagues like Scotland etc where it is difficult to name 3 other sides who have won their league. Or is that where you look but rather than those at clubs who traditionally dominate look to those who have usurped them. more than once and the budget they had with which to do so.

Then when you have settled on a shortlist, if that is possible, to consider other vagaries like character, command of the language, organizational ability regardless of DoF or not, use/encouragement of younger players and then their or their Agent's acceptance of KPI's built into a contract.

When you've done all that, consulted your stargazer, tossed the coin, rubbed your rabbit's foot and sought out the building in the corner of Goodison then appoint him. And if at all possible pick the man for the situation or do it at a time when he can get to know the players such as preseason training. Then check to see how much is left of your hard earned billions.

Mr B I have more faith in. Brands is a huge step up from Walsh but I do think he needs to be let go about his work unmolested and to develop a long term recruiting and development policy with a view of Everton as less as a "lip service" project and
more as a structured, properly directed project. This, incidentally is where in my dream world we could use David Moyes back at the club - if there was one thing he was good at it was spotting the kid playing on the rainy night at Barnsley and picking him up cheap, which would be essential to the project.

All your nominees are smalltimers with no real track record to speak of. Liverpool got a winner because they went looking for a winner. If you want someone who has the handy knack of getting Northampton promoted, you're going risk ending up becoming Northampton yourself. And sooner rather than later, you'll need that promotion. All of them, as well, are manifestly short on qualification to help us realize the club wide restructure our ambitions warrant. Nil Satis, etc. I doubt anyone one your list would come even close to the Optimum.

We need to aim high, the highest we can, because there is much work to be done - much more work that just getting a result next weekend.

Citing Liverpool provides little insight, since although they have, over the last two decades, spent far more money than Everton on players and managers, they have been relatively unsuccessful, compared to say Utd, City and Chelsea (the three elite clubs over that time) who have spent a comparable amount of money to Liverpool. Klopp has yet to establish any credentials as truly top class, since to do that Liverpool (who've never even won the Premier League) would need to win the Premier League repeatedly, like the three elite clubs. And only time will tell on that front.

Moshiri has been here for 5 years. Liverpool have been trying to get back to the elite level for nearly 30 years, whereas we've been trying only since Moshiri arrived. A sense of perspective is needed.

The fault lies with Moshiri, he continues to trust his own judgement, which on footballing matters is horrific. For me, Silva was the worst appointment in my time watching Everton.

On Wilder, I agree he is someone we should be looking at, my only concern would be his preference for playing 3 at the back.

To compare the monetary value of the current Liverpool and Everton sides, you would have to adjust transfer fees for the rapid inflation that took place after the Neymar transfer from Barca to PSG. The fact is, Liverpool have spent far more than Everton over the last couple of decades. They've spent about the same as Man Utd, but in that time Utd won just about everything whilst Liverpool won little. Reds are a frustrated bunch, which is why many of them were calling for Klopp's head not that long ago. I actually said to some of them that he needed more time.

You assert that Moshiri trusts his own judgement. That's all that is, an assertion. Unless you have evidence of this, you simply don't know.

Again, perspective is needed.

That's the nub of the problem at Everton - all our recent managers are stubborn, refuse to admit fault, refuse to be flexible, refuse to see the evidence of their own eyes (that we can all see).

I just hope and pray the next manager is not a power obsessed 'my way or the highway' type of man, who is dismissive of any other ideas apart from his own.

If Moshiri does not have a place on the board, of course he has the right to request a shareholder meeting at which he can call the tunes.

Another point of contention for me is the recent criticism of Mr Brands. If my recollection is right, he was appointed after Marco Silva was selected as the new manager. So, was he really 100% accepting of Silva or not????

So, what is the actual board of EFC?

Next, why Chris Wilder? Yes, he has done some good work with his squad but he has benefited from being relatively injury free in that squad. Does this really mean he is El Supremo? Not in my book!

Duncan meets all of the basic tenets of a good manager for Everton, much the same as those of Wilder. Why should we not pick one of our own. I'm sure the ball boys jumping in to Fergies arms was not stage-managed (only an ultra sceptic would think it was).

True heart, strong minded, personality plus, loved by the players and fans, doesn't take shit from anybody, knows the game, able to analyse strengths and weaknesses, will show emotion and strength fro the touchline. Why not give him a go??!!

I echo what Stan says that we simply don't know the internal workings we can only guess. It would be good PR if the club did indeed give us as paying customers more insight into how and who makes the final decisions on managers and players.

A negative for our managers is our insistence on then playing a certain style of football. Our last three managers have tried and largely failed due in my opinion because up to now we have failed to sign and also keep the very best players.

Yes we have spent a lot of money on good players but they lack that little bit extra that makes an elite player. To keep hoping that another manager will wave a magic wand over our squads and transform them into world-beaters is for me a forlorn hope.

We are still in the chicken and egg situation of we can't attract successful top managers because we can't attract the very best players. We need both if we are to become a regular top six club.

It concerns me that the Board seems very susceptible to fan pressure. So Sam Allardyce, detested by many, was removed and replaced by a Coach who had not even completed a full season in the Premier League. That looked very risky at the time. We got away with Silva for one season but after eighteen months he has gone and not a day too soon. As soon as David Moyes's name was mentioned out came the protests. There are still some who would object to Benitez based on comments made over ten years ago. If the name of Brendan Rodgers had been mooted a year ago social media would have been in meltdown.

In order to give themselves the best chance of getting it right the Board must ignore the outside noise and focus on clear selection criteria, identifying the candidates who best meet those criteria.

Of the names mentioned Chris Wilder is a current flavour of the month. His name is fresh and he has done very well at Sheffield United. But I would want to see how he manages his team through a poor spell. Can he arrest a slump in form? Can he motivate players through a full season when they are not chasing a title or promotion?The Board should resist appointing a one season wonder.

He is lacking in experience but I think its a risk worth taking. He's a larger-than-life character and that's what a big club needs.

Throwing him in at the deep end right now could really horribly backfire, and with the money & status (PL status) involved, I think you can forget Ferguson getting the gig.

We are presently applying Newton's 3rd law to the managerial merry go round after 11 years of Davey.

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

By my calculations, we've got another 20 years before we hit pay dirt.

I'm not saying they are deliberately undermined but rather, contrary to the opinion in the OP, that some targets are simply not swayed by the ‘sleeping giant' argument.

Most managers will have some element of relative failure on their CV, which is mirrored in the business world. There are just too many things that have to come together at the same time for it to be at all likely that anyone has a formula that will guarantee success, unless they have the ability to buy any player they want.

Like it or not, we are trying to springboard from a lower level than Liverpool despite their relative ‘wilderness' years, and that is likely to involve a radical approach.

The problem with a radical approach is it is likely to push the players out of their comfort zones and if things don't click then you are likely to get swings in form and inconsistency because the players are operating at the limits of their control.

When was the last time Klopp wasn't able to recruit one of his targets? How much of that is due to his personality or the draw of a ‘brand' which still resonates.

Evertonians need to decide if they are happy to compete for the ‘best of the rest' tag or if they are more ambitious. If we want more then we have to expect that for every Pochettino there are a dozen of the type that went before him when Spurs were at the same level as us despite greater wealth and the cachet of the capital. The board are rolling dice with their appointees, not cherry-picking a guaranteed Goodison success because that doesn't exist.

Whoever is chosen will be a gamble to a greater or lesser degree. As in any appointment you can look at the cv and like it, meet them personally and possibly warm to them and then offer them a job expecting them to fit in and work as you want. However the moment they walk into your building they start working with the staff already there and nobody quite knows how that relationship will work out. Put that in the context of over paid, immature and in the main not very bright footballers and is it any wonder the vast majority of managers fail at least once.

Wilder has a group of less talented but possibly more driven players, several of whom have a point to prove having been released or begun their careers lower down. Everton are full of internationals (in some cases I don't know how), managing them is not the same and no easy task. Moyes began at Everton with few stars and by giving players like Cahill, Stubbs, Kilbane and Pienaar a big stage enjoyed loyalty and passion but he often failed with self proclaimed stars - Beattie, McFadden etc

There is no sure fire answer but if it was left to me my gamble, and that is what it would surely be, it would be Arteta with an adventurous side kick.

Wilder for example is managing a "Moyes" type group of players and has them well versed in the team rather than the individual. Everton by contrast are a collection of individuals that need moulding into a team.

Rogers would have been ideal for us as would Mourhino but other clubs acted and thought decisively like big clubs and now they are reaping their rewards.

IMO we need a strong character who can manage Kenwright,DBB and brands and who will garnish respect from the players.

My favourites would be Ancellotti, Marcellino, Gallardo and Simeone and I beleieve we should task Brands to get involved with their agents and test the water.

If Moyes gets the job it will confirm our worst fears that Kenwright is still running the show and put us back years.

IMO Everton employed David Moyes far too long, it did nothing for our image either.

Being realistic I like Slaven Billic, but he's taking West Brom up and like the Leeds manager but would the be interested? I also like the idea of Erik ten Hag, and i'm suprised Brands is quiet about him (as far as we know). But if Everton don't try to land him Arsenal may do.

Preston
Wigan
Southampton
Unattached (formerly of Crystal Palace)
Watford

I think there is one FA cup between them from their record in England both before and after Everton.

It's a well worn list but it's fair comment, you buy from mediocrity then you get what you pay for.

Until we invest properly and budget for it, we will idle in obscurity.

We will still need to pay a astronomical salary to attract the guy who will make changes, get quick and tangible results.

The average tenure is 18months in the premier league. If you are not making serious progress then you are on shaky ground. The ‘project' manager is not viable in my opinion. It's a option we don't have the luxury of even exploring. Our own trophy drought and financial imperative, the pressure of being next to ‘them over the road‘ are all elements that push for a guy who can come in and do it from the off.

Look at Dyche and Howe, they've become institutionalized like Moyes did, both look scared stiff of leaving and trying something else! Good examples of patience that's now turned to staid iterations of their former selves.

Look there are examples everywhere of failure on the road you take to pick a manager. We happen to be the most inept at it.

Messy ? No doubt, but it could be the off the wall solution Moshiri has failed to come up with via his Johnnie Foreigner obsession.
Personally, I've had it up to here with sloppy passing along the back and we aren't exactly blessed with defenders who can 'play it out from defence !'

Never thought I'd say it but I'm warming to the idea of the safe option given the record of them making the final decision.

Ps Will somebody let Doddy know his sulk may soon be over !'

A: Bill Kenwright

For now, though not popular, I'd have Moyes with Ferguson assistant. Summer and long term Arteta.

I don't think an Ancelotti type would work with us. Have we ever won anything with a foreign manager, or one that hasn't played for the club? I know people like to say we can't hire someone because he gets Everton. Why not? The weekend game is big for Everton and Duncan.

The name of the game is to win.

"Then there's Marcel Brands, the Director of Football. Brands is paid a small fortune but has also failed in virtually every aspect if his job [...] Nearly all of Brands' transfers have been disastrous.."

You seriously think this? A demonstrably wrong assessment. Brands's one clear failure to date was not getting another CB last summer. Nearly all of his signings - purchases and loans - have impressed, or have not had the opportunity to do so (through injury, or in Kean's case, not being selected by Silva)

[...] "Brands was heavily involved in the recruitment of Silva but was totally unable to save him from being fired last week."

Actually, he wasn't. Silva was Moshiri's pet project and, as is now clear, it was a wrong move, just as Koeman was. It's also the case that even if Brands did not want Silva fired, he, as the DoF, does not have an exclusive right to prevent his dismissal.

"I'm not really sure what Brands does but I do feel there is something of the night about him and that he's not to be trusted."

Well this is more honest as to where you're coming from. Your preference for a British manager (and distrust of Brands) suggests you have an issue with foreigners. The game is international; a majority of top half Premier League managers are not British, and our best players are not British.

If you don't understand why so many Blues hate the idea of Moyes returning, that also speaks volumes about your insight. The one thing you certainly got right is the problem of Kenwright, who'll only retard Everton as long as he's still waddling around Goodison.

It's a great shame that so many Blues – while rightly angered by what's happened recently – are firing anger indiscriminately at all figureheads. Brands is the one competent (if imperfect, like the rest of us) person we have at the board and without him, we'd be royally screwed – probably already relegated (summer 2019).

Great article but I feel it somewhat misses the point with Klopp comparisons in terms of winners then suggests names which clearly aren't. We cannot attract winners considering we regularly have the 8th or so best squad in the division.

If a manager comes to Everton he is nearly destined for failure. Roberto with limited finances led us to a 5th place finish with our highest PL points total, the last 16 in the Europa League and 2 cup semi finals in a 3 year spell. But because he underachieved in 2 league campaigns he is seen as a failure and some have even argued crazily that he is our worst ever manager.

The reason I argue that we are destined for failure is that we have a much inferior squad to the top 6 but a slightly superior squad to the bottom half meaning it is more likely to have a bottom half finish as it is to finish in the top 6.

Our club continually amaze me- we finish a respectable 8th last season and instead of using this to build a foundation to improve we let our best player leave for peanuts and wreck the spine of the defence and can't understand why we struggle when we buy unproven talent again.

Pochettino was a remarkable manager for Spurs who embodies overachievement on a regular basis yet while they continually evolved they consistently refused to sell their best players. This wouldn't happen here and is why we are in perpetual transition.

Everton first started pissing me off when I was 17, when Alan Ball was sold, unnecessarily breaking up the best midfield in the world. Ball wanted to stay. As did Linekar after 1986, but he was sold anyway.

Of course, we're now so mediocre that the best players no longer want to stay, and of course Everton are very happy to let them go. They just roll over and have their financial tummy tickled by a bigger club.

Benitez was spot on when he said we're a small club. We always act like one. Even polls on ToffeeWeb can show this small-time mentality, such as the polls on whether Stones and Lukaku should have been sold.

If Moshiri is serious about Everton getting to the top, rather than being content to just be in the Premier League, then he'd make sure this small-time behaviour stops. No top manager would even consider joining Everton unless they had guarantees that they had significant sway over signings, like Klopp did when he joined Liverpool.

That said, when I look at our current leadership I look back fondly on Catterick and Moores.

In wake of Marco Silva, I didn't want him when he was given the job, but ai backed hi, to the hilt to succeed, but the repeat issues and transgressions of his previous stints at Hull and Watford were haunting him and the team.

Now to the present and in view of the board, interview process, selection criteria, I don't know who's calling the shots.

Surely the navigator should be Marcel Brands, backed by the board and based on football management skills that are proven, rather than potential, the candidate will be chosen.

I sense that Ancellotti may be interested but I am not convinced he'll have the fight to take this chalice.

I see a smart street fighter is needed whom can blend and develop the squad. Easier said than done, and who is that manager?

Borrusias or Monaco's managers look more in tune, but that's only my opinion.

Hopefully defo no Moyses.

Now for a Sunday.

Moshri needs to get his football head together and shake this club up properly. DBB is not a football club CEO, she has a background in education. having spent a few years in that environment it is clear that being decisive and commercial is not on their agenda. They wait for their grants to arrive and hope they break even, no real drive.

So Farhad get your act together make the right choice and lets go forward. Then gives Moyes a job in hospitality, he can meet and (dour) greet

For supporters like us, brought up on a 60s diet of top football and top players, that's in our blood so to speak, and it just seems unnatural for Everton to have taken the pathetic approach they have done that dates (in our memory) from the sale of Ball.

In this respect, all the current talk of changing managers and signing players looks quite academic, and not really geared towards us getting to the top.

Correct me if I am wrong. Kenwright picked two managers. The first had the 4th best win % post war over a period of 11 years. The second had the 3rd best win ratio all be it over a shorter time frame.

The first too Everton to the brink of European football proper for the first time in ages, got to semis and a final. All achieved on a shoe string
The second achieved the highest points total that did not achieve champions league football and also delivered a semi final or so. He did this whilst spending very little.

Moyes left, his memory tarnished by his actions after. And whilst it's fair to say he bottled it for the big games overall his tenure can be viewed as at the very least financially prudent

The second unfortunately flattered to deceive, but also gave us Lukaku, Del Boy, Barkley and Stones playing arguably the best football of their careers and some great memories from his first season

So, since then

Bill. No Angel. But under his stewardship we were often competitive.

Turnip Head? Jesus! Show a little respect for a guy financially and emotionally invested in our club to an extent clipperty-clegg has never been...

Another take would be this - he quickly dispensed with a waffling Roberto, hired Koeman, made a mistake but ousted him quickly...hired Fat Sam, fired Fat Sam...put his faith in Silva, fired Silva. I can't get too mad with him though, as he foots the bill for his own mistakes. Imagine what Kenwright would have had to sell to fund the above?? We'd probably be playing on mud, wearing socks and boxer shorts and names and numbers painted on bare skin...

Our problem is Kenwright, pure and simple. Fuck him off permanently, along with all of his acolytes and replace them with successful business winners! Watch how the club changes from being a corner shop to a multi-mall in no time!

Kenwright is a bloodsucker, and we're running out of blood