Do we deserve anything better?

For some reason the vitriol seems only to be directed at the local lads. Think about Hibbert, Osman, Barkley etc and the jeering and sneering they’ve endured. Maybe the fans are intimidated by “stars.” I don’t know but I’d pass around copies of Sigs comments today and jeer him every time he touches the ball. so two or three times in 90 minutes.

The cushions were a brilliant way of showing dissent but, as you say, they were discontinued because it was so easy.

I was hoping the club would issue some sort of apology but I'm not holding my breath. Nevertheless, I'm sure it will come up at next week's AGM.

Over the years we've all seen some awful performances but Sunday was truly shocking both in the overall display but most of all in the total lack of reaction after they scored.

I truly hope Ancelotti has marked some cards.

I hope they come out to total official silence. No Everton themed songs, no siren and most of all - no Z Cars. These wasters don't deserve to come out to the same tune as true blue giants. They have to re-earn the right to be applauded - by actually doing something.

We have reached rock bottom and I believe and hope that from now on things can improve. Ancellotti strikes me as an honourable man who will work tirelessly to put things right. Unlike Koeman, who I believe is truly to blame for this mess and who spent more time on the golf course than at Finch Farm, I think he will not buy players on a whim and blow tens of millions on over rated nonentities. I think he understands the serious problems we as a club face. I dream of Ancelotti holding up the Premier league trophy in 3 years time and saying that the loss to Liverpool was the worst moment in his entire career and that this is the vindication of his decision to stay and fight!

If I have misunderstood Ancelotti's character and he is here only for the money, then we are doomed as I can't see us surviving in the premiership without a talented and committed manager.

Like many other Blues, I've lost sleep about what happened on Sunday and I still haven't arrived at a satisfactory way of approaching the Brighton match. I suppose I'll do what I've mostly done in the past, go to the game, hope that there is a positive reaction from the team and hope that they gain the three important points on offer.

If the team don't react on Saturday, then we are in very dangerous waters, but there is very little we as supporters can do. Marching through the street, hurling abuse at the players/management won't have any impact on the club.

Do we deserve anything better? Yes we probably do, but since the game sold it's soul to TV, fans have less influence then at any time in the history of the game. Even our absence from the stadia wouldn't hurt them, because our financial contribution to the cause, is peanuts compared to the TV money.

If we all turn out and boo them for 90 minutes against Brighton, we will lose a game we should win. If we start losing games in the league again, and note we lost our last game to City. Then we would have a big game away to West Ham with David Moyes well up for it and knowing a win would leapfrog us (or if we lose to Brighton and they win, then they could be out of reach).

The next few league games will really set the tone for the rest of the season. This is the list:
Brighton (h)
West Ham (a)
Newcastle (h)
Watford (a)
Palace (h)

If you want to be top 4, then you are winning every one of those games. We would expect to win each of the home games and pick points up away. 11 points would probably have us back in the top 10 and able to claw our way back into the top 6.

But as annoyed and humiliated as this group make me feel right now, this is our club these players are only here for a short while but for us its a lifetime commitment. So we will need to get behind the manager and his assistant and let them know we are always here for the club, if not for some of the players currently wearing the shirts. Because the alternative is we turn on these players which with their lack of fight and ability it could see us tumbling down and even out of the division. Now they might deserve that but our fans don't. So we have no alternative but to try and encourage this team as best we can to get to safety.

Maybe on Saturday the greeting of the team on Saturday should be all of us waving white hankies, to acknowledge their meek surrender last Sunday.

Sheffield Utd was appalling, and We took my grandson for his first visit to Goodison. Which made it even worse.
At least he enjoyed his pizza!

Norwich was worse when we watched a group of players who didn’t understand what their individual roles were. That was when I accepted that Silva had to go.

Getting hammered by Liverpool reserves pre Christmas and conceding the same goal 4 times. And he finally went.

Then Sunday, well beaten by Liverpool youth. A final humiliation?

It will be interesting to see who he picks against Brighton. In a game we should and must win.

Then there is the window.

I see Ancelotti is today talking about sitting down with the Academy management. It might be an interesting discussion, at least for Ancelotti

I’m 72 and have been going to Goodison since February 1954. My grandson is the 5th generation of my family to go. You would think that by now I might have learned not to be too affected by this sort of thing

But I feel bleak. But I will be there on Saturday.

We as fans suffer the God awful games and go back the next one because we have season tickets, we are not sheep, we simply want to go the game (and have a few sherbets before and after said game)

Just sick of the idea that we, as fans, can somehow have enough influence to cause these overpaid pricks to play better, or in a few players, simply play like a fucking professional for once

I hate going off the words of reporters, but if it’s true that Pickford was shouting at the Liverpool kid good cross, then he would the first to be taken out the team. If it was in jest, that’s even worse because I know Carragher said our players wanted to be friendly before the game, but surely not after wearing the Everton shirt in one of the clubs very darkest days.

I heard Ferguson had to get out the changing rooms before he strangled someone, after being told he was out of order for having a go at a team that had just lost to a gang of kids, and whilst I was thinking of 100 banners all alluding to telling the players that we will be here, long after they’ve well gone, and if they have no pride in the shirt, then at least have some pride in themselves, but I think Dave’s white (his are usually yellow! which is even better, being the colour of a coward) hankies is a very good shout indeed.

Isn't the answer that the fans demand instant success, cheer on each spending spree and every managerial superstar - but they have no tolerance for the slow, progressive build that is necessary? Imagine if a new boss came in and said survival was the game, we had to build a system and a style and a top 6 finish was 3 years away? The fans would not accept it because they are deluded by past glories and quick fixes. That is my honest assessment of what makes EFC unique - the combination of high expectations and easy, though expensive, fixes.

How else do you explain the demand to put Ferguson in the hot seat permanently? Is there any chance that he could rant his way to success or attract talent ?

Now we have Ancelotti,who could be here for a pension top-up. We'll know - not when he reads the players the riot act - but when he tells the supporters the hard truths - that we are years away from building a foundation. But it's either that or continuing to kid ourselves from one week to the next.

“There will be times I can take players from the Academy to train with the first team.

“I will speak with the Academy manager to find the right way to improve the young players and get them ready for our first team.

“I have regular contact with Marcel, we have discussions every day to find the right solution to do our best for this club.

“Everyone is here to work for this club, to try to bring this club to the highest level possible.

“I would like to know about all the young players – it would be good to have players come from the Academy into the first team,” added Ancelotti.

“Anthony Gordon is working with us.

“I see a lot of quality in him. He has to improve and we have to be patient with him.

“But he has the quality to be at the top level.

“He has to gain more knowledge and experience but his quality is very good.”

I have since Marco Silva has been sacked trying to recall our away wins live on TV over the last few seasons. I have come up with

Lincoln City this season in the league cup, Carlisle Utd away in the FA Cup.

Premier League wise I can think of Sunderland 2016 3-0 and Burnley 2014 3-1.

A pretty appaling record that shows no sign of ending.

My first Everon match was the 1961 Liverpool Senior Cup Final at Goodison when Everton played Liverpool, both teams put out their first teams to a full house as it was the only way to play a Derby match as Liverpool were in the old Second Division at the time.

Just to end on a high note Everton won 4-3 rather than the depression that is currently engulfing us all

As for the fans demanding instant success, I don't agree, 25 years without any sort of trophy, one cup final appearance and a few decent but hardly inspiring cup runs during that period ended because as soon as the team faced a team with greater hunger or a better team, we were knocked out. Even in this last month, there were two golden opportunities to progress in both cups and the players wilted.

So often Everton have started the campaign very slowly and have usually managed to turn things around by spring, one season, that is not going to happen and the club will be relegated.

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, the supporters don't purchase the players, don't set the tactics and don't have a great deal of say in the motivation of the players. We are not the only club in recent times where players don't appear to give their all, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and United have had similar issues to deal with, but the players now hold all of the power.

I think most of us realise that Everton won't be challenging the top sides for a good while, most of us are willing to show patience if we can see a little progress, most of us accept that there will be quite a few bumps in the road on that journey, but what all of us can't accept is the team accepting defeat in the manner in which they did on Sunday.

We have to support Ancelotti for as long as possible because if he fails to motivate the team, if he is unable to get every ounce of energy out of this squad, and if he is yet another manager who insists on the current players trying to play in a style that doesn't suit their abilities, we'll be in a very dire situation both on the pitch and financially off it.

Survival first and foremost has been the remit of most clubs in the Premier League era, it has probably always been this way for much of the history of the game and the fans accept that, but the fans also want to see a team, trying their best, is that really being too demanding?

You are correct in saying that the last victory was against United when Moyes' faced Martinez. Prior to that we saw a few wins at City and Spurs before they were established as Champions League regulars. We haven't won at Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool this century, which is barely believable, however our record in general at those grounds prior to the formation of the Premier League, hasn't been awash with victories either.

I don't agree that Sky et al don't show Everton away at the lesser sides. Aston Villa and Bournemouth this season both ended in defeats and there have been many similar away results against these sorts of teams broadcast live in the UK on various platforms in the last decade or so. Millwall last season in the cup and a few other similar matches have also been shown live much to our dismay.

I might be wrong, especially because it’s impossible to predict something that has’nt happened, but we all know our players and what our club has gradually become over time, and it’s the reason I got very bad vibes from the minute I woke up on Sunday morning.

We have become a club with no identity over a very long period of time, without a win at Arsenal, Liverpool or Chelsea in the league for over 20 years. We used to have-a-go at City, but never since they’ve become one of the really big boys. One win at United, and when did we last beat Spurs away from home?

Moshiri himself has been convinced we can’t win these games, and this is a man who has put an absolute fortune into Everton, probably whilst the man who convinced him, has made a fortune.

Only Ferguson has generated real passion over the last five seasons, and I now think Ancelotti has got to be clever and give Duncan a voice? Maybe Duncan doesn’t want to be talking to the press, but it would do everyone good if he talked to the fans, and explains something we all already know.

If you believe Everton is not a quick-fix, then I’m sure it’s something that could see you sectioned, but it would be nice for the words to be spoken, hopefully after a few of these players have been dis-guarded for good.

I just hope the bottom of the well has now been found, that’s my biggest wish for our club right now.

Wasn’t there a similar rumor a few months ago about Dunc having a bust up with DCL or fighting with Silva about DCL or something?
As far as being “out of order” Carlo is the boss. He has to set the tone so he may feel a stern talking to is better than screaming. Also, he’s just got here. Dunc has seen this same shower let down four other managers so his perspective is different.

The things that happen to people are very like the people they happen too.

Everton more than any other Club in the Premiership have generations of supporters. Over the years they have been sold the the People's Club or similar crap and have believed they where part of a Community. Even that word has been hijacked to add to the sop.

But behind it all and on the backs of the fans a Duff Management has been allowed to rise and prosper at Everton, resulting in a consistent underperforming Club, which has enriched those first to the trought. They have achieved this by lack of investment in the Club, characterised by no interest in building a winning team or fan faclities. They are still doing the same, ripping off all around them. This is the Culture that pervades all aspects of Everton. Over the years the fans have unknowlny supported them and believe their bullshit , though their awareness has increased a lot in recent years.

The fans deserve what they are getting, because they where the type of fans that it was going to happen too anyway.

I was dismissed but I, like most Evertonians after 35 years of support witnessing that disgraceful "performance" on Sunday am mostly disturbed by the fact that these millionaires are NOT aware of the contempt that the fans have for them

A visit to the fruit and veg store on Saturday is the order of the day, failing that they should be roundly booed on Saturday for bringing shame to the shirt, Like most on here I will forgive them for being crap but the cowardice both physical and physcological on display last week was something to behold- The lowest point for me

I don't know if I will bother my arse watching on Saturday or if indeed is time to finally to wean myself off the afourmentioned drug and do something better more productive with my time, They are not worthy of our support ,, Utter c7ntz

I heard our fans during the first 30 minutes on tv but after that there was nought to cheer

Rotten tomatoes is one thing but you know some will take it too far. If objects start reigning down some fans will think it’s funny to lob Molotov cocktails or hand grenades.

The Liverpool supporters were silent until they scored.

I don't mean just Sunday's abject showing, but in general over the seasons since we last showed promise and produced. I know I am somewhat biased but I can't fault the fans at all, and display a loyalty that more often or not is retrospectively misplaced.

Let's just hope something happens in the next few days both on the pitch, and in the Transfer Market too. But as many have mentioned there are far too many Gravy Train Season Ticket Passengers on immoral wages and long term contracts, who will be nigh on impossible to shift.

Recently the Irish national team fans threw tennis balls on to the pitch to protest the rampant corruption at the FAI, maybe something similar ,They were roundly criticized by the media of course ,who see the game as purely a product however it did raise the issue at an international level

To note ,they have since opened the books of said organization to find (as often is the case in Ireland) the cesspit of corruption had no bottom, All involved will walk away with golden handshakes and the game itself especially at junior level will do well to ever recover

I am hoping we don't suffer a similar faith at club level but there are some similarities in the types of characters involved, I can imagine them walking out at FF on Monday as if nothing had happened

I reckon Carlo needs to put a couple of the U23s in the team on Saturday. Siggy, Walcott and Schneids should be dropped until their attitude changes and if not shipped out this month - they must leave in the summer.

Do the Dixies get awarded at the AGM or is that a different night ? When the Dixies are being awarded would be the right place to let them really know the contempt most of us feel right now.

It showed the team is not a proper team and has no back bone, spine, belief, morality care etc and the lack of football nous is lamentable.

There will be a time when enough will be enough for many, but for the hell if getting in the face of RS, fans I’ll take the pain, albeit in full knowledge the mean time for Everton’s next trophy win, is not known.

Perhaps there will be some standard apology note to the fans in the next programme. What’s the point, when the yellow belly cowards, deserted the club on Sunday?

Will this be the end of many of this squad?

Let’s hope so.

I was also at the Coventry game. It was like a morgue that night a real ghost town.

The conundrum is that I want to make some form of protest at our heartless shit house players but I also know that BHA are no mugs and would almost certainly win the game if we started getting on the players backs early in the game.

After Sunday I can't see anything other than a relegation battle this season and we all know how important home support is from now until we are safe.

Once we get to 40 points I would endorse almost any form of protest. Bring the cushions back!

I actually started watching Everton about fifteen years before 1961. From the end of the war up until the early sixties there was absolutely nothing special about the Toffees so you were introduced to being Evertonian at just the right time.

As dreadful as the last game was, and it was as awful as all posters have said,frustration often elicits the type of comments that have been seen on ToffeeWeb since the Liverpool game. I was able to also give my own vitriolic posts. I was angry and clearly stated just what I felt. However I am still an Evertonian and will be supporting them against Brighton on the weekend. As a fanatic I don't really have any choice. We can and should protest about what has happened to our club.Hopefully our new manager can do "something".

We expect our players to be tough and determined. Why Not? However from experience I have learned from many years that an Evertonian needs to be just as tough. Everton is so much of my life that, as bad as it seems, they are the first thing I think about when I wake up in the morning. And I am now at the stage that I am actually glad just to wake up in the morning and realise that I am still here. I still think we will "Rise Again"

When I saw the title of this piece my heart sank. I just knew it was going to be one of those posts which blamed the fans for the desperate state our club has fallen into.

The fans were not even aware that once Mr John left, He he would be leaving such a huge gaping hole in the club finances. You may remember differently from me, but the fans could not prevent us sliding from the top table, in the seventies - not even by raining cushions down on the pitch.
Anybody claiming credit for the astonishing revival under Kendal and Harvey because they stayed away or distributed toxic leaflets is living in cuckoo land.
These calls to arms just make me sad. Its a multi billion pound industry The fans don't have a leg to stand on. If they stay away it would barely cause a ripple. Attendances are nowhere near as important to the finances as they used to be.
The only option a fan has today is to take it or leave it. I personally take it because I know I would miss the club more than the club would miss me.

The fans did not have the finances to purchase the club in the mid nineties they were powerless to stop the City's most infamous carpetbagger. The majority of them knew what he was up to, but they didnt have the financial clout or friends wealthy enough to stop him

The fans didnt call for Moshiri to buy the club either. It's true they were desperate for a new man at the top, but not many knew much about him. The only thing they could do was hope and pray it worked and that the good times would follow.
The fans did not sign piss poor managers. They were not the people who paid astronomic fees to lure a steady stream of bang average players to the club. This was all out of their control.

I get mightily pissed when I see fans applauding the appointment of poor managers, I get even more upset when they support them even when its clear the game is up,.. but do I feel they are responsible ? How the fuck can they be ?
We could fill the old lady with 40,000 moaning arl bastards like me, but we wouldnt make a blind bit of difference.

when I look at those 8,000 fans who went to Mordor, my heart bleeds for them.
When I think of those who travel up and down the country on the off chance that they might just occasionally avoid the abject misery of sitting in traffic for hours reliving the pain of another defeat. I feel this club is betraying them.

When I hear the roar and see the faithful rise to the sound of sirens in a desperate attempt to drive these costly mercenary bastards to give ninety minutes of themselves. I see victims, Victims of the piss takers who have abused their love and loyalty to the club.

The perpetrators are the shady Mf's in the stand. The greedy bastards on the pitch. The slimey faceless agents who steal so much from the game. The mercenaries who have drained and ill used our club for years.

I get mightly frustrated with fellow blues sometimes, but in the cold light of day I know there isn't a single Evertonian who deserves any of this shit

Eddie #64, great post.

I’ve had a bevvy mind

What if 2 or 3 of our youngsters are included in the squad for the Brighton game?

Would it be acceptable to treat them with either silence or howls of derision along with those who deserve such contempt. Probably not

You sound as disturbed as me. I was thinking the same. If only.