Conservatism, Conspiracies and Counter-intuition

He knows the position he is in at Everton and with the fans, he still came, wanted the job, called back for three or four interviews, he must have been presenting a good, strong case for his appointment, got the job, let's see him fight as hard to keep the position as he did to get it.

I'd have a bet that he gets another contract, if he does I think it means we'll all benefit, Paul do you want to go half with me on the bet?

It's all about the results he gets.

Just what our underperforming bunch of misfits must fear most. That'll do for me!

None of us know how it's going to pan out but one thing is certain: as far as fan opinion goes, Moshiri has effectively said "bollocks to them" which possibly is not a bad thing.

Well, maybe it is as most of us know a lot more about togger than he does.

Togger? I haven't heard that word since the 1960s lol

I've no idea how the word came to be used to describe football, have you? Was it a Scouse thing or widely used? Do kids still say it?

Conservative? Most definitely. Initially I thought more of the same. A continuation of an apparent strategy of a big name manager with a proven track record of winning trophies, albeit in the past.

But the Observer article and thread give food for thought. Yes, the obvious parallels are there. Yesterday's man, apparent boring football and if anything, Benitez is a lesser model than Ancelotti based on past achievements.

But they are parallels, not complete similarities. There are also differences. The main one being Benitez has achieved success at big clubs sitting just below the elite club threshold. He has broken the glass ceiling, so to speak, Even Liverpool. At the time, they had the name, but that was an average Liverpool team and squad.

I feel dirty saying it, but maybe this was the appointment Moshiri and his backer should have made instead of Ancelotti if this is the path they have chosen to lead us to Bramley Moore Dock and the 10th title that will allow me to rest eternally?

I sometimes think my relationship with Everton is like when I was a dumb teenager who had fallen for the wrong girl. No matter how badly she treated me, I couldn't walk away and could only see the good side, regardless of what my sisters told me. To hate, you have to love. I can't even hate Everton, no matter what they do to me, my emotions and my poor suffering wife and dogs.

I can't be absolutely sure but I think "togger" is a scouse term and, like you, my first hearings date from the 60s. Haven't heard it elsewhere on my travels.

The "la" rather than the North end "lad" shows its roots, I presume.

It's season 2023-24, the last season at Goodison Park. Everton go on an amazing run to secure an impressive league position and once again, European qualification. They are waved farewell at an appreciative yet emotional Goodison Park on their very last game on the hallowed ground before they head to Wembley for the FA Cup final.

One week later, and 40 years on from 1984, Everton win the FA Cup. Optimism is high, the club is on an up and there is a feel good factor.

Season 2024-25. Everton continue their impressive form from the previous season and romp to the elusive 10th league title that has alluded them for 40 years since they were last crowned champions of England. They parade the trophy around their new iconic stadium on the banks of the Mersey with the Royal Liver Building basking in blue light in the distance.

I may have been partly dreaming as I wrote that. But if you can't dream and hope?

I should wake up soon.

I remember ‘Togger' being used in playgrounds across Merseyside and beyond in the early sixties. I always thought it was a corruption of ‘soccer' denoting that we used our toes to kick the ball.

‘Rugger' was used for rugby. In that era, some rugby playing schools were keen to draw a clear distinction between ‘Association Football' and ‘Rugby Football' by referring to the former as ‘soccer'.

Dave @1 - excellent comments - I too have a feeling after initial reservations that we have secured the best available and that his combative style with those above and below is what we need to provide a secure foundation to move forward.

Add in a few competent and willing players and a bit of pace, as Tony suggests on another thread, and we have the basis to at least move forward with a supportive crowd which in my view will be an essential requirement at Goodison this season more than ever.

Couple of years ago, I was in Kazimier Garden and four lads sitting nearby, wearing what I presume was the latest street gear, had a conversation consisting of "lad" nearly every other word, eg, "Straight, lad, so I says lad, eh lad, no worra mean lad, and he goes like lad..." Magic!

Very plausible and difficult to offer an alternative.

The cobwebs of my mind has a hint of a derivation from "soccer" (the corruption of association football) but I know not how. Perhaps the simple impish joy of playing with official language caught on after all someone must have said "go 'ead" (go ahead) one day and it caught on.

Tis an odd one

"Orrice lar?" is pure scouse. I prefer 'mate'. 'Togger' is fucking medieval!

Some of his stuff is pure stereotype. He's very funny with it though.

Your dream took me to Aviici, Danny, and wake me up when it's all over, and certain lyrics which remind me of Evertonians, and I DIDN'T KNOW WE WAS LOST!

I'm with you. Never used 'la' or 'lad', always 'mate'. I can't think of anyone in my family or mates that's ever used 'la'?

Regarding the thread. I'm still ambivalent about Benitez, as long as he gets stuck in to the lazy gets when they show no effort or fight, which has been far too often the last few years.

I've learned down the years to sit up and take notice when you say "wouldnt put a penny on it", but I sincerely hope our football's better than last season.

Another very plausible explanation I still say "putting me togs on"

I remember one good performance last season, first game away at Spurs. We won at Anfield the same season Burnley, Brighton and Fulham did, and of course they still finished in the top 4. (For any fans of the Fast Show, "Bugger!")

Sadly since then I've witnessed many poor performances by Everton teams. Regular posters know my background and move away from Liverpool, so I'll stick to matches I've attended since then. I'm not sure why these ones stick out as particularly depressing, but they do, and not just because of the result:

Arsenal home during Colin Harvey's tenure (I think). I can't even remember the year but the last match I attended with my Dad. We lost 3 - 1 and you could visibly see the frustration in Martin Keown, who was clearly a good player in a declining team. I don't think he stuck around too long after that season.

Sheffield Wednesday home in the 90s. Joe Royle was manager? We actually went 1 - 0 up courtesy of a trademark Duncan Ferguson header. Lost 4 - 1. It was a dreary winter day, which added to the depressing feeling.

Hull home during Martinez's first season. We won 2 - 1. My son was at Uni in Liverpool and had season ticket. I travelled up from London to meet him. Despite the general consensus the football was great that season, he warned me I would need to be patient watching them. I remember noting that the four Everton players who touched the ball the most seemed to be Howard, Jagielka, Distin and Barry playing one touch in a diamond on that the edge of our box. A dreary affair.

There have been so many. In terms of absolute capitulation and white flag defeatism, some of those FA Cup defeats such as Wigan, Tranmere and Middlesborough (the straw that broke the Walter Smith back) take some beating.

Anyway, look forward as always. Optimism and hope that not only do we win, but we are entertained more than not. We could equally reminisce on the best performances we've seen and fortunately we've all seen many of those too. Onwards.

Thanks, John, I think you've nailed it. We also called them togs in West Derby!

Benitez's appointment was controversial, but there was no great choice available, and Moshiri and Rafa know he's under pressure to get it right from the off, which could be a good thing. I hope it works.

Literally?! Did he survive the knife attack?

'Literally' can now be used to express emphasis.

I always default back to the 84-85 team. I suppose the plus is that it will only have been 38 years?!!

I wouldn't mind, but I was at Carrow Road that day. What a trip home that was!

Good call out Dennis.

Although why would you need more than two unless it became a matter of what would be acceptable in the contract. Is anyone aware of anyone other than Benitez, Nuno and Dunc actually being approached? One report seemed to indicate that many applications were received.

I've never been a fan of Snr Benitez, but then again one of the reasons I loved Tim Cahill was that supporters of other teams, especially the rs, hated him. He upset them.

I fear that Benitez has come to top up his pension at a location convenient to him, and that Moshiri has had his pants pulled down once again. But I have no evidence to support that concern, and I desperately want to be wrong.

I am going to be as optimistic as an Evertonian can be. As Ken#15 says, the crowd needs to be supportive and patient. But I wouldn't bet the farm on that either.

I apologise for incorrectly using the word 'Literally', I only noticed it after your response. I wish we were all as clever and as smart as you both.

We can but aspire to be perfect!