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Everton interest in Harry Winks may have some legs
We've been in collective denial that Frank Lampard and Keven Thelwell could be seriously considering the acquisition of Harry Winks from Spurs but the internet chatter has shown a distinct uptick in recent days, and the Echo, usually quick to pure cold water on dubious rumours, has embraced the mood claiming Everton have started talks on bringing the hapless midfielder to Goodison Park.
For a side in desperate need of creativity and goals from midfield, Winks's stats are shockingly poor. And yet the player appears to be 'valued' at or above that magic £20M threshold that has been the cause of such transfer anguish for Everton in recent years.
A follow-up article in the Echo airs the widely held view that a younger and far more exciting player like Connor Gallagher would be a far better target for Everton to pursue, especially given Lampard's connections with Chelsea, which may or may not be a factor in securing a loan deal if a permanent transfer for the player who did so well at Crystal Palace last season is not possible.
The article concludes that Winks would not provide any substantial upgrade over Allan or Doucouré, recognizing that: “While the Blues boss is believed to be an admirer of the Spurs man [Winks], the reaction of many Evertonians to the speculation so far this summer has been generally lukewarm at best.”
Reader Comments (263)
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2 Posted 22/06/2022 at 17:02:18
I thought this was just rubbish and I have to say, if Lampard is interested in Winks, then I have real doubts about how he is intending to set us up next season. Conte, a world class manager has already offloaded Dele as being not good enough and I don't think Winks has started a game under him at Spurs. For me that tells us all we need to know about Winks.
I find it quite remarkable that Leeds are holding out for at least £70 million for Raphina, who doesn't get into the Brazil side when everyone is fit. Yet Richarlison who always starts for Brazil is only worth £50 - £60 million. But of course this is Everton – sell cheap, buy expensive.
3 Posted 22/06/2022 at 17:04:36
4 Posted 22/06/2022 at 17:41:21
5 Posted 22/06/2022 at 17:42:59
So this is a midfielder who not only doesn't score goals, he doesn't create them for other people.
In 2019-20 he had an amazing stat line -- 41 total games, over 3000 minutes on the pitch, zero goal contributions. No goals, no assists. Spurs scored 87 goals in all competitions that season, and Winks wasn't directly involved in any of them. That's hard to do.
6 Posted 22/06/2022 at 17:44:54
7 Posted 22/06/2022 at 17:44:54
What we wouldn't give for someone with an ounce of sense running the club again
8 Posted 22/06/2022 at 17:45:36
9 Posted 22/06/2022 at 17:56:39
10 Posted 22/06/2022 at 17:57:10
11 Posted 22/06/2022 at 18:01:50
Worrying news indeed!
12 Posted 22/06/2022 at 18:12:47
10 games for England - 1 goal.
He does seem to have gone backwards post-Pochettino/Mourinho.
Depends what we are looking for? Gbamin not good enough?
Winks plays as a central or defensive midfielder.
Pochettino - "When we talk about midfielders – because you like to use Spanish midfielders like Xavi and Iniesta – he's like this type of player. He has qualities to add to the team that are completely different".
Danny Murphy in September 2018. "The England team should be built around Winks, citing his performance for Tottenham against Real Madrid in the 2017–18 UEFA Champions League group stage as evidence: "Winks has got the capability, more than anyone else I have seen. What he showed in that game in Madrid, in both games when he was fit and at it, was a confidence and an ability to play. To see the passes, to get his foot in and be disciplined and that mix of midfield talent that you need, For me, Winks is one of the best I've seen when he's at it – in terms of his all-round ability."
So maybe Frank and Kevin are thinking we need a ball winner to protect the back 4 or 3 and Winks fits that bill better than most. We will worry about scoring and creating with other players.
Just wondering. Remember, Gueye only scored 2.
13 Posted 22/06/2022 at 18:24:08
14 Posted 22/06/2022 at 18:26:05
15 Posted 22/06/2022 at 18:38:16
Leeds want a minimum ofv £65m for Raphinha, so we have to value Richi at £70m at least, nothing less.
16 Posted 22/06/2022 at 18:51:54
17 Posted 22/06/2022 at 19:01:28
Yet, an ex-colleague of mine thought Samways was great!
Your post @ 12: those quotes from Pochettino and Murphy just seem like vague waffle to me.
18 Posted 22/06/2022 at 19:02:14
However, Everton being Everton we will buy him and he can fit in well with the rest of crap we have in our midfield.
19 Posted 22/06/2022 at 19:04:29
Does any Evertonian anywhere have any evidence to suggest that Mr. WInks has the sort of talent at his disposal to take us up the Premier League towards the CL?
Please enlighten us if you do. Our track record of taking the unwanted from London clubs historically sucks like a vacuum cleaner.
20 Posted 22/06/2022 at 19:11:40
An Everton side that will be in the mix for bottom 7 do.
That's the reality of where we are as a football club.
21 Posted 22/06/2022 at 19:13:12
22 Posted 22/06/2022 at 19:16:18
23 Posted 22/06/2022 at 19:19:28
Winks could do the pivot role in midfield sitting in front of defence like Delph did towards the end of last season but we'd need to move on Gomes and Davies for the deal to make sense.
There's a report tonight saying Spurs realistically expect to get up to £12.9m for him. There's no way Winks is worth £20m. I don't understand why we don't go for Holbjerg now that they've signed Bissoumma.
If Spurs offer him and £50m for Richie I'd reluctantly accept but I'd much prefer to deal with Chelsea and do a deal for Gallagher and Broja.
I'm not anti Harry Winks. He's a tidy player but this is just like a Vinny Samways or Tom Cleverley signing. Don't we really need pace and power in midfield??
24 Posted 22/06/2022 at 19:35:13
And then along came 2019, when he became a full-time starter for Spurs, played more games than Kane or Son or Sissoko or Dele, and produced nothing. Zeroes. He has produced nothing since.
In order to compensate for that, he would have to be an absolutely world-class ballwinner. Like Gueye. He is not. Not even close.
I looked it up. In that high-usage 2019 season, Winks had 40 tackles in league games. Gana averaged over 130 per season with us. Winks' best season for interceptions was 36. Gana's was 141.
No contest.
There is no level on which Winks makes any sense to me.
25 Posted 22/06/2022 at 19:38:20
Pace and power, you're right - with the character to match. It's something we haven't had for a long time and seem unable to find. Some snark à la Fellaini wouldn't go amiss.
Mike @ 24 - you saw something I missed, and maybe you watched more of Spurs. I can dimly remember one passable performance but no passes longer than 10 yards.
He seems to share that Eric Dier thing of being on the pitch without being involved in the game.
26 Posted 22/06/2022 at 19:46:55
We want 4 or 5 dynamos unearthed from the lower or European leagues for buttons to transform this place, so presumably that's booked in for next week NURSE!! NURSE!!
27 Posted 22/06/2022 at 19:52:04
28 Posted 22/06/2022 at 19:52:58
29 Posted 22/06/2022 at 20:01:36
Winks was 22, looked 16, totally poised, clinical. I was intensely jealous of both England and Spurs.
How quickly things changed.
30 Posted 22/06/2022 at 20:13:06
31 Posted 22/06/2022 at 20:22:15
1. The horrific 5-2 defeat by the RS which was possibly Silva's last game
2. The horrific 1-0 cup defeat to the RS youth team under Ancelotti
In both games we were unbelievably weak in midfield. Countless others too of course but those were horrible to watch.
I want to never see us overpowered so easily again. I want big, physical, mobile players who will protect the defence, release the full backs and let the attackers attack.
I want someone like Sangare.
I don't really want a player like Winks who is really just neat and tidy. I want someone brutal and ruthless who can play a bit.
And here's another question, which Premier League club apart from us would sign Winks to genuinely improve their midfield? I'm struggling.
32 Posted 22/06/2022 at 20:22:46
33 Posted 22/06/2022 at 20:32:27
Is Kenwright being bent over again by Levy? I mean seriously have we learnt absolutely nothing?
Buying Sky 6 cast-offs on big money who couldn't give a shite is the worst business you could ever do and it's almost ruined us. Especially from fucking Spurs who are, in reality bang average and still haven't won anything – although I think the media missed that bit.
I hate these bastards almost as much as the red shite. If you sign this player, Everton, we are finished! Absolutely disgraceful
34 Posted 22/06/2022 at 20:36:26
Conte is an elite manager and you have to worry when he is showing him the door.
Why are we not dealing with Chelsea as they have better options if Richarlison has to be sold.
35 Posted 22/06/2022 at 20:37:35
Given his last couple of seasons, what on earth is Winks going to offer us? Better to go for someone like Zinchenko who can play left side of midfield with Mykolenko, creative midfielders, and another centre-back and where are our goals coming from next season?
What worries me more is, if this is the calibre of thinking that is supposed to set us on the road to recovery, I am becoming seriously concerned.
36 Posted 22/06/2022 at 20:38:38
And good call Christopher 34, Chelsea just shipped Lukaku and added Richarlison to their interest list. I'd take Broja in a compensated swap in the case that Richarlison decides to go.
37 Posted 22/06/2022 at 20:39:18
If we do sign him then sign on loan with an option to buy. Let's see if he can actually add anything before thinking of spending £20M.
38 Posted 22/06/2022 at 20:43:32
We are so lazy in recruitment, you only have to look at the stats and see how he plays to know that this is totally wrong choice of player for us to buy now.
Let's hope common sense prevails but when has that happened during the Moshiri era? If we do buy him, then why bother trying to support this shambolic array of players?
39 Posted 22/06/2022 at 20:43:49
I don't know what the question is if either of them are the potential answers to it. I'm hoping that it's all media/agent spin and we'll actually unearth a gem elsewhere.
40 Posted 22/06/2022 at 20:47:17
And I'm a bit concerned about Nick's blood pressure!!
41 Posted 22/06/2022 at 20:56:22
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Fucking Everton that.
42 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:06:21
He's probably a better player than Davies and if we took him on loan with a £12M buy option I could stomach that as we need numbers in midfield. But the idea of paying a chunk of our limited transfer budget this summer is borderline horrific.
Read somewhere that Lampard likes him but Thelwell is less convinced. Hopefully the DoF wins this one. Better and cheaper options out there.
43 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:06:23
Okay, I submit – I'll take Winks.
Mike @ 29 – just realized; taking Winks would mean we bought that whole midfield. All players that didn't/haven't reached their potential for various reasons... and look where they tend to find their way to...
44 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:06:52
45 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:10:37
Roll on another season like the last… when will it end and we finally learn???
46 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:18:29
I am fed up of buying players like him. I would get more excited if Frank gave Warrington a run in the team or even bought some young promising player from a lower or foreign league.
As Mike points out, this lad doesn't do enough at either end of the pitch. Another Gomes, Samways or Cleverley.
47 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:22:48
48 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:23:50
We all want better, but this kid can definitely play football, so I wouldn't be as disappointed as most people on this thread if he replaces Gomes.
49 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:25:19
"Who's on your list?"
"Winks."
"Hmm…"
Having said that, if there is one position Frank will know, it's this one. His stats though are eye-watering. No goals, no assists. You'd normally think with that he'd be an enforcer type, but no, he's not that either.
He does seem to be able to pick a pass, we'll have to wait and see. I've seen on the interweb tonight, interactions between journalists in the know and Spurs fans, to the effect that they view £20-25M as a 'heist'. And I don't think they were complaining.
If Levy does do us over with two duds for £60M, it might be time to take Everton around the back of the stables once and for all.
50 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:25:36
51 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:32:24
It wouldn't surprise me if Danny Drinkwater is used as a makeweight in the Richarlison deal.
52 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:34:12
You are right: he can play a bit. Straight away, I thought he was a Lampard-type player. But it will be a bargain buy or tied in with a Richarlison move. Looks like the jury is still out regarding Dele Alli at Everton.
53 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:38:23
If Harry Winks is played to his absolute favourite position, he'll turn out fine, he did look decent once. Even played a part all the way to the Champions League Final – so I'm sitting on the side of "he is a decent player".
54 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:40:07
But Everton will be having Allan and Winks in midfield? Don't me make laugh.
55 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:40:29
Those saying we should go for Højbjerg, why would Spurs sell him? Why would he want to leave? They are in 4 competitions so will need quality strength in depth. They are building.
56 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:46:20
It's one thing taking Arsenal and Spurs cast-offs but I don't want us to start taking Leicester's now. That would be a new low for Everton.
57 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:48:02
We a laughing stock again if this is true.
58 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:50:31
If he's that type of player, I wouldn't be concerned about goals. Peter Reid hardly weighed in on that front. But it wasn't his job to do so.
Anyway, I'm not getting excited or agitated because I can't control it. It's silly season and there is going to lots of talk, rumours and endless speculation, often with little outcome. I've promised not to have a summer like the last one with the manager situation as it developed.
Come 6 August, whoever runs out in a blue shirt to beat Chelsea gets my backing.
59 Posted 22/06/2022 at 21:58:49
60 Posted 22/06/2022 at 22:05:48
But we need a whole new midfield. At least 2, preferebly 3 new midfielders. If we could get a Gallagher or Berge type, and a Nunes type, then we'd also need that unspectacular sitter type – could that be Winks? Not a clue.
We need rid of Davies, Gomes, and Doucoure (Allan is the only one I'd keep).
61 Posted 22/06/2022 at 22:10:33
62 Posted 22/06/2022 at 22:12:04
On our downward trajectory, we now seem to have by-passed Sainsbury's, Tesco's, Asda and even Aldi and Netto. We are now in the Premier League equivalent of a food bank, gratefully taking the items no-one else wants or was about to throw out.
Good times, eh Bill???
63 Posted 22/06/2022 at 22:14:03
64 Posted 22/06/2022 at 22:16:52
Lets shift the crap we already have before we bring in anymore at least.
Maybe a cheaper Gomes but still not good enough or the type or midfielder we need.
65 Posted 22/06/2022 at 22:17:55
66 Posted 22/06/2022 at 22:33:57
67 Posted 22/06/2022 at 22:33:59
Sam #57, I remember. Shook my head then. Still shaking it.
Fran #58, I'm with Gavin. I'd keep Doucoure. For the first half of last season he was our best midfielder by a mile. He got injured, never fully recovered, but never stopped giving the best he had. (I count Iwobi as a midfielder, and I'd keep him too.)
68 Posted 22/06/2022 at 22:35:42
I'm expecting us to make an offer for Phil Jones next.
Goes to show that there isn't one person at the club who has got a bloody clue what they are doing…
69 Posted 22/06/2022 at 22:43:17
If you sat them just ahead of a Bissouma type then you get massive pitch coverage from Doucoure plus a fair few goals potentially if he's allowed to get forward and then a decent amount of ball carrying from Iwobi plus creativity and also (of late) some great work ethic.
Put the Iwobi we had at the end of the season next to the Doucouré from the start of the season with a top-notch ball-winner and you might just be onto a pretty decent midfield 3.
70 Posted 22/06/2022 at 22:59:36
We don't need Winks. He isn't good enough and, with the letdown of Dele Alli so far, why would we take another Spurs cast-off?
I cannot see Tom Davies being any better than average along with Gomes but Doucouré and Iwobi are worth starting the season with.
At this stage, it remains to be seen who will figure in Frank's plans and very interesting to read everyone's opinions but certainly we don't need any players who couldn't be regular starters last season. We still have some of our own to deal with.
71 Posted 22/06/2022 at 23:01:43
After last season, and the great efforts to survive in this League, Evertonians deserve better than average cast-offs from any of the so-called Top 6 clubs.
This linkage, plus the rumours of the consortium's potential takeover of EFC, doesn't stir any genuine hope in my soul for the fortunes of Everton FC in terms of next season, and lessons learned from past transfer windows and board changes.
I hope I'm wrong but this has almost become the Everton blueprint for buying players, behind a disgruntled boardroom – even when there was decent money to spend.
It's feeling like nailing jelly to the wall in terms of Everton's long-term stable strategy to develop and grow the club.
Yes, the old cliche about beggars and choosers in life is true, but the so-called overhaul of the football directorship and coaching side of the club must have some standards.
I hope that Lampard isn't going to be adversely impacted by any takeover of EFC.
Well, as ever hope eternal, all matters EFC.
72 Posted 22/06/2022 at 23:17:40
73 Posted 22/06/2022 at 23:24:25
Mr Kenyon, if this is you, you're screwed. If not, please hurry up and close this shit!!!
74 Posted 22/06/2022 at 23:25:43
75 Posted 22/06/2022 at 23:29:23
Why would a bloke who is 30 in January, and has played for 6 seasons in the Premier League averaging 3 league goals a season, suddenly give us a fair few goals?
76 Posted 22/06/2022 at 23:36:41
He is precisely the sort of low-impact, warm body we've been signing for years and I can already see him sauntering off with his head hung low in that ridiculous new snow-stained shirt. Crappest transfer proposal since the January window.
77 Posted 22/06/2022 at 23:49:34
78 Posted 22/06/2022 at 23:51:06
Add Allan and a couple of quality attackers to that mix, sell Gomes and Davies while they still have some value, hope Townsend comes back by midseason, and you might just have a reasonably decent midfield staff.
79 Posted 23/06/2022 at 00:04:13
80 Posted 22/06/2022 at 00:09:42
Allan in his prime would be just as good as either Hojberg or Sangare and still has some of that beautiful Brazilian streetwise aggression. If our scouts are earning their money they will be bringing in the next “Allan†so the club gets the best years out of such a player. What's Kevin Thelwell made of ?
I also think that Doucoure and Iwobi could play slightly more advanced with the right DCM sitting behind them. It's the key player signing this window. (Although Gallagher and Pusilic as our two ACMs would be a game changer goals wise). Even so, in our squad situation the DCM trumps everything as the player we most need.
I'm going to remain positive because Frank Lampard was one of the best midfielders to play the game over the last 20 years or so . He will know what's needed in that department.
81 Posted 22/06/2022 at 00:26:50
His international appearances are a third of Ross Barkley's, the guy at the allegedly peak-age for a pro footballer, who can't even be confident of being on Chelsea's bench in any game at all.
If not now, when will it ever occur to the vast majority of true Everton fans that Kenwright's abject refusal to render himself to fans' accountability for years when he was the owner, and beyond, and taking full account of our decades-long Kenwright-"inspired" patronage to former bog standard players as coaches, none of whom have shone in their role whilst all becoming wealthy yes-"men" to ensure their ongoing contracts, and his shite negotiating performance in signings and/or selling players of any significance?
The shyster needs to be eviscerated from our club, together with everyone he appointed.
I guarantee that whoever screws Moshiri to the wide in acquiring our club will eradicate all things "Kenwright".
Not to do so would amount to masochism.
82 Posted 23/06/2022 at 00:28:12
The match — Spurs 0-1 Everton.
The player — Højbjerg.
83 Posted 23/06/2022 at 01:37:35
Lampard and Thelwell have a lot of goodwill deposited in my bank so far: I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt if Winks is either being brought in on loan or a Free Transfer. Given our precarious Financials, anything more than 5 Million Pounds spent on Winks would have to force the Legal & Compliance at my bank into action.
84 Posted 23/06/2022 at 02:04:49
Maybe Lampard wants a player like this, especially if we are to play 3 at the back and push the wing-backs high up the pitch.
I am not a big fan of Harry Winks, and his lack of size, pace and athleticism suggests he shouldn't be the sort of player we should be looking at – but he offers something in a certain system where he is given the ball early and often, as his passing is his overwhelming strength. With the right players around him, then he can offer something very valuable.
85 Posted 23/06/2022 at 06:18:55
You had me looking for a Darren post...
86 Posted 23/06/2022 at 06:46:05
He's basically just the second coming of Tom Cleverley, the difference is Cleverley cost nothing.
For some reason, at Everton, nobody ever seems to work out that goals and creativity win you games of football. I've never known a club become so fascinated with signing "holding" midfielders that never offer anything going forward.
Our scouts need to start earning their wads. What we need is a signing that can potentially excite the fans and turn games in our favour.
Give me an Andrei Kanchelskis-type signing, then maybe I'll start to believe Everton want to change from being the museum piece it's been for years now.
87 Posted 23/06/2022 at 07:05:53
Davies is below average, Gomes is terrible, Doucouré (when fit) is a nuisance to the opposition, but is a truly awful footballer.
So Winks would be okay for a team hoping to finish 11th and at present, that sounds fantastic.
88 Posted 23/06/2022 at 07:34:27
The marketing is the worst in the Premier League. Can't even buy an Everton kit in our own airport or sports shop and a month behind when a new strip is out compared to them other shower.
Just all very Everton and I doubt blue smoke will save us this time.
89 Posted 23/06/2022 at 07:38:16
90 Posted 23/06/2022 at 07:40:31
Winks is an okay footballer, and would represent okay business if he turned up out of contract on sensible wages. But any real money paid in transfer fees is for the criminally insane.
Would an upwardly mobile European or Premier League club squander good money on him? No chance they would!
91 Posted 23/06/2022 at 07:42:06
I was thinking the very same thing the other day, how quickly after 1 performance people were going overboard on Allan and writing Højbjerg off, mostly because he'd decided he didn't want to come to us, wish he had signed instead of Allan.
Oh and he keeps Winks out of the team too.
92 Posted 23/06/2022 at 07:45:28
Whoever it was that mentioned Tom Cleverley has put me off my breakfast thinking of the reality of a midfield with Harry Winks in it.
93 Posted 22/06/2022 at 08:03:05
He does not get goals or assists because he is good at keeping the ball in tight areas and picking a forward pass. There are better CDM ball-winners yes, however he does bring some pace and quick feet. With 3 at the back and 3 across the middle (352) then he could be a good option if coupled with a ball carrier (a la Nunes, who of course we can't afford).
For me, it's a risky signing, he's lost his mojo like Dele, the fans turned on him last year big time and we know how that goes (we are after all the UK champions of toxic projection!).
I know I have to trust Frank and our new DOF but years of heartache have left me deeply sceptical we will ever again employ the right people to make the right decisions.
94 Posted 23/06/2022 at 08:11:44
In terms of the alleged £20m valuation, this is the problem doing business in the Premier League and paying an over-inflated premium for English players. Unless you buy from Everton that is. Even if we bought from ourselves, we'd probably see ourselves off.
I'd rather our scouts and DoF went on a duty free trip to Europe and load the van up with better value for money from the continent.
Brian, our marketing strategy is on a par with our transfer strategy. Enough said!
And forgetting our inability to go global or have presence in our own airport, just look at the city. They built a flagship store smack bang in the centre in the shadow of St George's Hall; one of the first things you encounter when you walk down from Lime Street. We have a modest unit tucked away in Liverpool One opposite the Lego Shop last time I looked.
Back to midfield. Any news on Gbamin? I presume he is returning and has managed to play football and stay fit for half a season? Maybe finally we get to see him do it for Everton.
That said, what are the odds that as soon as he walks through the gates of the Native American Burial Ground that is Finch Farm, the curse will strike? He will trip over his shoe lace and snap an achilles.
It's only Thursday. Long week. It's not even July. It's going to be a long summer.
95 Posted 23/06/2022 at 08:13:31
I honestly can't see what a former player of Lampard's standing would see in him. I think our entire engine room got 4 goals between them last season, a shocking stat, so we go looking for another.
If we sign him, I'll be seriously questioning Lampard.
96 Posted 23/06/2022 at 08:38:13
98 Posted 23/06/2022 at 08:44:19
99 Posted 23/06/2022 at 09:17:28
But only do it if we're actually going to use him in some capacity.
El Ghazi. What was that about?
100 Posted 23/06/2022 at 09:18:14
Why can we be linked with players like that? Surely we can compete with West Ham?
101 Posted 23/06/2022 at 09:20:52
Someone on TW said we had to take El Ghazi on loan to get him off of Villas wage bill as part of the Digne transfer, otherwise Villa couldn't do the deal. If true then we effectively covered some of Digne's wages for the 2nd half of last season.
Don't think El Ghazi made a single appearance.
102 Posted 23/06/2022 at 09:23:38
So who knows what you are going to get? Maybe Lampard and Thelwell think they can get that Real Madrid performance again…
Change of club may be what he needs!
103 Posted 23/06/2022 at 09:37:16
However, competition for Broja particularly will be fierce. I also think Chelsea might see him as their best striker now given Werner is mediocre and Lukaku is too heavy to play at the sort of intensity Tuchel wants.
We might be able to get Winks relatively easily and cheaply by comparison. Hence, it might be closer to fruition. Like Tarkowski, perhaps viewed by the club as a way to improve a bit without being spectacular.
He's not the sort of player I want but, playing the optimist, if we were to get Winks and, say, someone like Sangare then that might be OK. You could sit them behind Alli and let him press forward for goals.
We won't have a perfect summer or a perfect First XI for 2022-23 but hopefully it will be a step in the right direction.
104 Posted 23/06/2022 at 09:48:19
He makes good runs into the box and should score more than the 2 per season he's managed for us if given a reliable ball-winner behind him.
105 Posted 23/06/2022 at 09:50:48
106 Posted 23/06/2022 at 09:58:46
El Ghazi came on once for a very few minutes at the end of one game, I think it was to let him see what Goodison Park was like from a pitch side view!!
107 Posted 23/06/2022 at 10:08:09
If Frank and his crew are able to build a team (in the true sense of the word), rather than a rag-tag bunch of individuals, then it's what we've all been crying out for and is the change we need. Football is a team sport after all and we need to change the way we play as well as the mentality of the team.
I'll wait to judge based on: a) this signing actually happening; b) the role we ask him to play and who with: and c) actually how he does when he's played a few games.
Then I'll crucify him and call this a shambolic transfer that should never have happened… 😉
108 Posted 23/06/2022 at 10:20:07
I know we are all looking for positives but I think that's clutching at straws.
109 Posted 23/06/2022 at 10:28:57
Just like the Dele business what a deal he struck there a top earner they didn't want off the books, and Everton could end up paying £40 million for him. How I wish Levy was in charge of our transfer dealings.
Seems to me that Lampard is listening too much to Uncle Harry, he thought Dele would be a great addition and is probably urging Frank to get Winks.
I remember Redknapp being interviewed saying Allan has no legs and, despite him being one of our better players at that time, surprisingly Lampard dropped him for the next game; he hardly made any appearances from then on.
I see Lampard has said that we will probably change our style from the back end of last season, I hope that means no Iwobi as an extra defender. But I hope it doesn't mean we go back to him having our 2 centre-backs in the 6-yard box for every goal-kick, which was a complete disaster.
110 Posted 23/06/2022 at 10:41:01
I know some didn't like it when Ancelotti's pulling power was used as a reason for players signing. But in a similar but different kind of way, I think we're going have to lean on Lampard's pull to a degree in my opinion. Especially for younger players.
Although the laws of average will mostly lean towards money and the pull of European football, a lot of the current young players throughout the country and arguably Europe, will have grown up watching and admiring Lampard as he went around winning the lot in one of Europe's most high profile teams of the time.
It just might influence one or two gems to choose Everton as a longer term football development and career option rather than go for the big move early and warm the bench for several seasons only to be spat back out to where they came from.
Unusually, I've just been on the official site. For a different reason, but I ended up watching the replay of all last seasons goals.
Some random observations that I'd forgotten. We started and finished with a Calvert-Lewin diving header and a mini pitch invasion. Okay it was tame in comparison, but there was no outrage at the time that I recall. I didn't even know fans had jumped out of the Paddock and I was in the ground!!
Demarai Gray has really good feet and goals in him. If we can get consistency out of him, he could be a really good player.
Townsend can hit them.
We're going to miss Richarlison.
111 Posted 23/06/2022 at 10:48:15
112 Posted 23/06/2022 at 11:06:12
If it's the former then this is a waste of time & money because Winks is a pretty average player in many ways. He can be steady at the base of midfield though, moves the ball well and has a decent footballing brain so if we employ him to sit and dictate, that could work.
I really hope it's not just another buy for the sake of it. We already have plenty of average midfielders to go round.
113 Posted 23/06/2022 at 11:06:43
114 Posted 23/06/2022 at 11:36:00
I hoped that, when Lampard joined, he would (given his background as a player) look to increase our goals per game output. I see no improvement in that area as yet but, to be fair to Lampard, this is his first proper transfer window.
Hpwever, signing the likes of Winks will not improve our goal tally. We seem likely to lose our 15- to 18-goal forward in Richarlison, so our goals-per-game ratio will take a hit if we don't improve in that area.
I don't see either Gray or Gordon replacing Richarlison's goals and, with there being little or no goals from midfield, I do worry where the goals will come from.
115 Posted 23/06/2022 at 12:00:50
I had said I was going to avoid speculating.
Fail at the first attempt for Danny.
116 Posted 23/06/2022 at 13:05:39
He played at Tranmere on loan last season. Class.
117 Posted 23/06/2022 at 13:10:33
I don't believe in keeping players that want to be elsewhere; also, the very best players only want to sign for the established Top 6 teams. It's a very difficult situation to change.
It's looking like it's going to be another difficult season.
118 Posted 23/06/2022 at 13:35:18
Doucoure is a much better player, not having to sit back, so, if we can play him in a more attacking midfield role, you will see a much improved player next season.
Like others, I've not taken too much attention in Winks's play, but Frank certainly got a tune out of Iwobi, so I'm happy to go along with Frank's judgement.
I just hope we stick with the manager for a few seasons, give the manager time to blend the players in, stop chopping and changing the managers every season, time for stability now and put trust in Frank.
We all have players in mind we would want; however, if Winks is the choice we make, at least give the guy a chance… not even signed yet and already he is getting battered.
119 Posted 23/06/2022 at 13:37:19
He is tidy player who can pick the ball up as a defensive midfielder and pass the ball forward quickly. We don't have a player with this profile in the squad right now.
My guess is that he will join on loan which, together with Tarkowski's free, means we have covered two critical weaknesses in the squad without spending a penny.
120 Posted 23/06/2022 at 13:57:33
121 Posted 23/06/2022 at 14:01:31
The fact that 2 of Conte's first 3 signings have been central midfielders tells you all you need to know about Winks.
On a separate note, has anyone bothered to listen to the BBC's Football Daily podcast? The section on Everton is embarrassing.
The so-called experts, Nigel Reo-Coker and Natasha Dowie (an RS lover) have clearly no understanding of Everton, its fans or players and don't half talk some shite.
122 Posted 23/06/2022 at 14:06:08
As for where the central midfield goals will come from, Alli is the obvious (but currently uncertain) answer.
What we need is the holding players to allow Alli to attack. Winks might do that - although in his prime at Spurs Alli had two big holding players in Dembele and Wanyama.
123 Posted 23/06/2022 at 14:26:24
124 Posted 23/06/2022 at 14:42:04
Whilst I fully intend to be outside the statue with blue smoke for the player coach arrival against Chelsea, I think that any serious money paid out for this lad would equate to a Vitor Pereira-type protest outside the ground too.
Scary stuff.
125 Posted 23/06/2022 at 15:02:05
This to me demonstrates the short sightedness of many in football where you have to study a player through good and bad before coming to a conclusion – just as Dithering Dave does.
For me, Winks is another Tom Davies who has lost his way after showing promise and, like many other posters, I don't know why we aren't looking at better value options instead of Uncle 'Arry's has-beens.
126 Posted 23/06/2022 at 15:06:12
Okay – I'll get me coat.
We are going to play 3 at the back as Chelsea do. Frank, if this paper talk is correct, obviously believes Winks is the player to sit in front of the back line. If he comes, I can only hope Frank is right. Fingers crossed.
127 Posted 23/06/2022 at 15:11:42
- Tottenham offer Everton target Harry Winks to Rangers for £20m (Good luck with that)
- Everton make approach for Keane Lewis-Potter
- Toffees ‘interested' in Pape Abou Cisse
- Frank Lampard wants Hakim Ziyech at Everton as he nears Chelsea exit
- Blow for Everton as £30 million transfer target (Broja) open to a move to West Ham United
128 Posted 23/06/2022 at 16:35:14
Winks offers nothing as far as his stats go. We don't need another no-goals, no-assists midfielder – we have enough already.
129 Posted 23/06/2022 at 16:52:54
130 Posted 23/06/2022 at 16:57:01
That is down to the Spurs system and the fact that he has not contributed more within that system does beg the question: What the Fuck?
131 Posted 23/06/2022 at 17:00:09
So many player experts on one site... and all know more about the player than Lampard. I honestly don't know why we bother with a DoF and a manager.
Before anyone says "This is a discussion," – it isn't... it's an assassination of the player's attributes before he's even signed (if he does) – never mind before he kicks a football.
132 Posted 23/06/2022 at 17:15:10
If Frank sees him as a round peg for a round hole in his plans, then I hope we buy him. We have benefited from these oddball buys so often in the past.
When it all settles after the window and we have half a season to gel, you could see a fantastic team develop, we just need to put round pegs in round holes – not the square holes we've banged them in in recent years.
I'm going for a fast recovery for the club and without ridiculous money being spent.
133 Posted 23/06/2022 at 17:24:30
I did listen to that this morning, after my daily read of the Transfer Gossip page! If I was still a schoolboy I'd have found it insultingly poor.
134 Posted 23/06/2022 at 17:27:47
135 Posted 23/06/2022 at 17:27:54
By the way, what is the exact transmission of ideas among the DOF, manager and owner/chairman?
136 Posted 23/06/2022 at 17:32:12
Most on here have ate, slept and lived football since they could walk. Whilst we may not be qualified professionally, it's pretty insulting to say we can't have an informed opinion. If you don't like us having opinions, then what the fuck are you doing on a discussion forum site?
You also make an assumption that this is either Frank or the DoF driving this. We've been linked with this lad for several windows. It stinks of Bill or Moshiri and a new bat phone to their new mate, Levy. Given we are currently utterly skint, I think most of us have a right to question waste.
This player is most definitely that. Just look at his stats.
137 Posted 23/06/2022 at 17:34:21
Would it not be better to save the bile until names are mentioned by the club and don't forget we haven't got a pot to pi55 in until Rich Charlies Son goes.
138 Posted 23/06/2022 at 17:38:19
In these days of heavily televised football, the fans see a lot more football than most managers and are therefore entitled to form an opinion.
139 Posted 23/06/2022 at 17:42:15
We might not be "Experts" on here, however that's defined. There's a combined experience of watching the game of probably a millenium or two though, and it counts.
If we were about to sign Haaland, it would all be really positive. If signing the worst player in the league, then it would be massively more volatile. It's just a range based on what's there to be seen.
Winks as a signing is uninspiring IMO. If there's some hidden magic in him that Lampard can extract should we sign him, or he proves a great fit for some previously undiscovered pioneering role, I'll defer. Meanwhile, it's getting called as it appears and likely is.
140 Posted 23/06/2022 at 17:42:42
Winks was one of those Spurs players, like Dele Alli, who looked possible world beaters under Pochettino. Can we rescue both of them from the football wilderness? Only time will tell.
Anyways, thanks to the abject mismanagement of Burke and Hare, we will have to wait until we sell Richarlison (probably on the last day of the window) to whoever is willing to pay over £30M.
I love the lad's fight and spirit but I don't see anyone falling over themselves to buy our Ritchie as he'd only be a squad player in a top 4-6 team.
ps: Dave @131, I was horrified when we bought Arteta and Cahill as I'd never heard of them. I was told that they were both crap (on another site) but they weren't too bad were they? Same goes for Gana Gueye
141 Posted 23/06/2022 at 17:43:37
142 Posted 23/06/2022 at 17:46:05
I honestly didn't compile the previous few posts and stick them into mine! Seems we share the opinion.
I must stop writing posts in fits and starts without updating.
143 Posted 23/06/2022 at 17:50:25
144 Posted 23/06/2022 at 18:00:01
Players perform differently in different surroundings and when surrounded by different players.
We've had many over the years come with a fanfare only to disappoint.
Then we've had the odd Tim Cahill come in as an underwhelming £1.5M buy from Millwall as Rooney when out of the same revolving door that he entered.
Graeme Sharp from Dumbarton, Peter Reid taken at risk and Kevin Sheedy, a former Liverpool reserve who graced Goodison with his magic wand of a left foot. Sorry, had to get my 80s and Sheedy punt in! It's therapeutical.
I think the only high-profile player we bought in the Premier League era who I could say was a different class was Kanchelskis. Rodriguez had class but we didn't get to see enough of it. Nigel Martyn but a shame we didn't get him when we could have done had it not been for the apparent embarrassing position the club allegedly took.
Then there are relatively high profile flops. Krøldrup and Samways spring to mind. Am I being harsh on Samways? And Simon Davies. Oh, those last 2 came from Tottenham didn't they?!!
My point is, it's about building a team. We have to allow the manager and the DoF the opportunity to do that. So do the board.
Then we can judge them along with the players once they are playing for Everton.
145 Posted 23/06/2022 at 18:06:46
If we're going to spunk £10M on a loan fee, plus £3M-£5M in wages, we could offer Eriksen a whopping £200k a week and save ourselves a few million too. Hell, why not just add a couple of mill and go give Salah the £400k a week the shite are refusing him.
Suicidal business model…..
146 Posted 23/06/2022 at 18:18:17
147 Posted 23/06/2022 at 18:38:45
148 Posted 23/06/2022 at 18:46:23
149 Posted 23/06/2022 at 19:11:59
I'm 61 and have followed Everton all over Europe. One thing I've learnt about football is expect the unexpected.
Cahill, Gough, Barry etc were all reviled and touted as a waste of money on this site. As for cast-offs... whoever we buy is a cast-off from another team.
I'm not saying Lampard is the Messiah but he knows a shitload more about football and team-building than "anyone" on here.
150 Posted 23/06/2022 at 19:12:09
He may turn out a success but, as I say very, it's a dumbed-down Everton Way of thinking.
151 Posted 23/06/2022 at 19:17:07
152 Posted 23/06/2022 at 19:28:26
Samways stayed at Everton for two years but only played 23 times, wasted in my opinion when Kanchelskis was in the team, Vinny with his great passing style would have made Kanchelskis's goal scoring even more impressive again y opinion.
Nevin was also left out by Kendall and played mostly in the reserves before going to Tranmere, he could have been used better by Howard who never reached anywhere near the heights he reached on his initial time at Everton at any other club including two more spells with the Blues.
154 Posted 23/06/2022 at 19:34:07
If we're paying £10 million to loan him for a season, which can then be deducted from the pre-agreed transfer fee should we decide to sign him permanently, it potentially puts us between a rock and a very hard place.
If he's mediocre or worse we're looking at being down £10 million and a player for the squad for the following season so there's a world in which the powers that be would think – “Financially it makes sense to pay the extra £10 million to sign Winks rather than have to find a new midfielder within that same £10 million budget range.†It's not a good proposition at all.
155 Posted 23/06/2022 at 20:03:22
156 Posted 23/06/2022 at 20:09:24
My opinion of Pat Nevin is similar to that of Tony Hibbert, good in their positions but criticised unfairly. In Tony Hibbert's case the cry was 'He's alright defending but he can't cross a ball'', and in Pat Nevin's it was, ''He doesn't give his full-back cover." My reply to that was, "If I was his manager, my instruction would be to hang around the penalty area, but make sure it's not ours."
I believe that we all know a little about football and I'm no different, but I don't need 'stats' to tell me whether or not a player has had a good or poor game, and as Dave Lynch [149] says, every signing is somebody's cast-off, for one reason or another.
157 Posted 23/06/2022 at 20:10:46
It's not just them even before the internet and, players like Harper and Sheedy, even from hard core Blues in the stadium were disgusted we were after the shites fringe players, Paul Power another example, you can add Peter Reid and Andy Gray as crocked players past their best.
Have we not learned from Iwobi, a player transformed by Frank, a player finally being played in a more central position, instead of the wing.
I do not know much about Winks, but if Frank sees him as the player he wants, you will not get any complaints from me, could all be paper talk, but if Gomes goes and Winks comes in, could be a masterstroke from Frank, or a flop; either way we have to have faith in Frank's judgement for now.
158 Posted 23/06/2022 at 20:27:41
160 Posted 23/06/2022 at 20:33:23
For the last 4 years or so, a variety of managers have bought in a variety of different players. Some of whom they had historical links with (Ancelloti and Allan, Benitez and Townsend etc). Most of these players were decent enough players and most seemed to be an “improvement on what we haveâ€.
But the inconsistency of approach and constant changing of manager has left us with a mishmash of different players, not obviously suited to one style or system with many of them on high wages and limited resale value. This is not how to run a club well.
The new DOF will hopefully be more involved in transfers and his job is to sign players who will be an asset even if Lampard is shown the door at Christmas. To ideally sign underpriced players who tick two boxes: High playing potential (to help on the pitch) and good resale value (to help off the pitch).
I'm not convinced Winks ticks either of these boxes. He is a tidy and composed distributor on his day, but then so is André Gomes and many on here know how I feel about him. A loan may make sense to take a good look at him or a very minimal transfer fee. But I suspect this one may not be a goer.
162 Posted 23/06/2022 at 20:58:43
Why aren't we scouting and signing good young players with bags of potential? They are out there. Is our scouting set-up that bad?
Is Bill Kenwright involved in this transfer? He knows as much about football as Moshiri does.
Our transfer dealings are generally abysmal with a few exceptions. Why are we such a badly run football club?
163 Posted 23/06/2022 at 21:04:58
Wasn't Niasse one of those so-called "if the manager wants him, then it's fine by me" signings too!?
164 Posted 23/06/2022 at 21:04:59
165 Posted 23/06/2022 at 21:09:35
The club stating a new strategy being set up, as lessons are learned, but then etching out transfer deals for rank average players reeks of despair.
How far back could you go? Claus Thomsen, Terry Phelan, Schneiderlin, Hottiger, Micky Walsh... The list is endless.
But let's see what's gonna happen as it happens, if and when it happens this preseason at Everton.
Yes, it was great to escape and take Evertonian support to an extra dimension in terms of literally carrying Everton over the line to survival, now 5 weeks ago, is history.
But hope eternal for EFC.
166 Posted 23/06/2022 at 21:31:23
As I remember it, Barry had a great record, Cahill was unproven but believed to have potential. I most remember concerns that Gough was knackered. Relative to his past, he was but was able to perform for us. Btw I wasn't on TW back then.
In the case of Winks, I believe there is plenty on which to judge, and I simply don't see anything to be encouraged by. Of course, I am never the final arbiter; just my opinion. The general consensus here seems to be that "TW" doesn't want Winks.
When extolling the enormous virtues of the combined TW knowledge base, I wasn't excluding you. None of us should dismiss anyone's right to their views. We might even agree on the next rumour.
167 Posted 23/06/2022 at 21:38:48
There is zero evidence to suggest that anyone in this club hierarchy can be relied upon to make better judgements than the people who regularly contribute to this forum.
I'm not suggesting we know better than them, but I won't accept that they've got the best interests of the club at heart. If that was true, we wouldn't have been fighting relegation despite spaffing away more money than the average premier league club over the last 5 seasons.
Besides... it's a fans' forum FFS! If we just contend that Lampard has a better idea about what the club needs than we do, then what's the point of ToffeeWeb?
If you can't come up with a better argument for a post other than 'the club knows best', then I really don't know what you're doing here!
169 Posted 23/06/2022 at 21:46:05
He's getting older though, and if he hasn't had an op, there must be a chance that this could flare up again? But it genuinely wouldn't surprise me if Allen,also leaves Everton, before the end of this transfer window.
He's a big earner, who might want to stay and become a free agent next summer though, because this is very beneficial for modern footballers, and if Everton are to lose Richarlison, then they are definitely 100%, going to have to sign another centre forward, because otherwise we won't have anyone to deputize for DCL, which would be an absolutely ridiculous decision imo.
170 Posted 23/06/2022 at 21:47:46
171 Posted 23/06/2022 at 21:48:18
172 Posted 23/06/2022 at 21:54:19
We need impactful players. Signing a player who never scores goals nor makes any assists is to be 100% avoided. Unless he's a centre back, goalkeeper or outstanding defensive shielding midfielder.
This is another one of these players who I'm thinking ‘perhaps I'm missing something'. Much like I felt with the huge money signings of Bolasie, Iwobi, Sigurdsson and Keane.
Sadly, I'm pretty confident I'm not. We don't need another plodder in our team.
173 Posted 23/06/2022 at 21:56:08
Hands up, anyone who thought Paul Power was a good signing when he came to us just when Lineker was off to sunnier climes?
176 Posted 23/06/2022 at 22:01:13
He does seem a lot quicker across the ground than Allen, Davies and Gomes, and is definitely not a bad footballer, for a team that struggle to keep possession, and came 17th last season.
178 Posted 23/06/2022 at 22:05:50
Is that what we want? Really? To assemble a team similar to how we were back in 90s or under the Dauer Dave?
181 Posted 23/06/2022 at 22:13:11
Pretty boring if we all agreed with the manager. Or each other.
183 Posted 23/06/2022 at 22:14:34
They were excellent footballers, and characters.
184 Posted 23/06/2022 at 22:30:36
Hope we are not going to wait an hour before the window closes to bring in players we need, but have a team ready that will be the core of the squad for the season.
This is the silly season where we will be inundated with numerous players and I would like to see who the director of football and the manager sign first, and that will show what areas of the team they believe need strengthened first.
185 Posted 23/06/2022 at 22:58:26
Wasn't there a story Richarlison turned down Man Utd a couple of years back?
There's been plenty of players bought cheap and young but we didn't sell. For example Coleman and Baines. Last summer Godfrey had interest and if the club said go ahead to everyone and bid it could have been a speculated £40 million. Same for Branthwaite who had some interest. Once Holgate had City rumours. Of course rumours and real bids are totally different things.
But part of the problem is not having players lined up and selling players when they are in really good form and getting £10 or £15 million more than they are worth and then reinvesting.
If the club had a bid for £35 million for Pickford could the deal be done and have a list of replacements? Same for Calvert-Lewin?
If after a good season Mykelenko has clubs sniffing around for say £25-£30 million or Patterson would it take bids and reinvest.
That must be part of the problem too.
I can't see the rules being beaten unless at least one or two players are sold every year that improve the financial situation according to the rules. So I think that needs to change in the transfer strategy, not just concentrating on who to bring in.
187 Posted 23/06/2022 at 23:17:22
One paced players are okay when they have possession in their own third and just have to play the ball sideways and backwards but when you need to close down opposing players you need that extra turn of foot and it was so lacking last season.
When some key players get injured they usually need some games to get back to normal and one or two of them were in that category last season and was a major factor in some of those poor results.
No matter what Frank has up his sleeve he needs some speed in that middle otherwise next season will be nothing different.
188 Posted 23/06/2022 at 23:56:01
Both were gems, like the signings, like Gray, Reid, Steven, and Bracewell, etc.
And Zico..
Right now, well hope Eternal, all matters, EFC.
189 Posted 23/06/2022 at 00:03:06
I did ask if I was being harsh on Samways. Like I've seen Winks described on here, he was quite a tidy player, but he never convinced me. He did off to a memorable start mind with that lofted goal at Wembley to take the Charity Shield home.
I liked Pat Nevin. Always thought of him as a box of tricks; a very intelligent player. Unfortunately, and in hindsight, he joined us we were just starting off on the downward spiral. At the time he was seen by many I knew as a direct Trevor Steven replacement, so the expectation was unrealistic. No 2 players are the same in my view. The first time he caught my eye was playing for Chelsea at Goodison. I think it was that match when Pat absolutely cracked David Speedie cold out with his elbow. Even many Evertonians winced!
John Snr, I like your analogy on cast offs and I too don't like stats. I like to analyse the game and watch football. I'll read them as you can't avoid it these days, but I don't take too much notice of stats.
Some other good names on your list Brian (156) and on Paul Power Peter Mills, I'll put my confession hand up. I was in my best mate's house and we were shocked. We've bought an ageing player from Man City. Who were they? And with that moustache, he looked like one of our Dads' mates transported from 1976 was our general sentiment.
Mike Gaynes. I like your online pub and occasional virtual brawls description. Probably more accurate than we realise!!
Anyway, if this player does sign in whatever capacity, I'll judge him on his performances in a royal blue shirt. I can't believe there's still 6 weeks to go.
190 Posted 24/06/2022 at 00:18:41
Let's hope there's some Science in the incomings, if they arrive this preseason.
No fekkn Spurs, duds..hopefully.
Will the the takeover view, of EFC, become clearer, I'm not sure, is it a set up to stir interest, after last season?
The best supporters in the UK! Yes.
UTFT!
191 Posted 24/06/2022 at 00:21:19
The genius of Howard Kendall.
192 Posted 24/06/2022 at 00:37:37
That squad is priceless, in any football era, that squad delivered, for EFC.
193 Posted 24/06/2022 at 00:41:12
But for Kendall to win the league with that 86-87 squad was arguably his finest managerial moment in my opinion. Norwich at Carrow Road, May 1987; still my favourite away game that I hope one day is surpassed. I think Van Den Hauwe scored in the first minute or close to it. I honestly don't recall any of the match after that!!!
Paul, yes home safe and winding down thank you. I don't want to mix threads, but on the way back, my son read out a feed from a reputable source. Not someone we know, just one he follows who is usually on the money. It back's up what Greg O'Keefe has reported. Kenyon and his consortium have visited Goodison and the Bramley Moore site and held direct meetings with both Moshiri and Kenwright.
It didn't suggest other reports that Moshiri wants to retain 10% but it interestingly stated that Kenwright wants to remain as Chairman but they are keen for a revamp of the board, naming one of the consortium (I forget which one) as a potential successor. As well as Kenyon having a hands on approach.
Interesting few weeks ahead.
196 Posted 24/06/2022 at 07:21:54
197 Posted 24/06/2022 at 07:28:13
198 Posted 24/06/2022 at 07:40:43
He might be able to fill a role but it is a possible signing that simply leaves one feeling...the same as before.
I also hope we don't do any business with Levy.
200 Posted 24/06/2022 at 08:25:34
202 Posted 24/06/2022 at 09:36:13
Winks would add nothing, a waste of £20 million, surely there are better players in the championship.
Like many others I'm concerned about us buying any more of Spurs failures, Deli being a prime example, surely we're not keeping him on, it will be another colossal waste of money.
Under the present regime this obsession with mediocrity has become the rule by which we are governed.
Until something fundamental changes in the club's hierarchy things will remain the same.
203 Posted 24/06/2022 at 09:56:34
Scott Twine is a better player in league one. We'd probably get him for £5m plus add-ons.
He'd give us a lot of what we currently don't have - a goal threat, creative and excellent at set pieces. All with much room to improve and get better. This is also much of what Harry Winks absolutely will not offer us.
Would be on an hugely lesser wage too.
But rather than signing and developing a player like this - who is on the way up. Everton would rather stick to they system of signing players on their way down.
204 Posted 24/06/2022 at 09:59:42
Instead of producing something we could all get behind, Don again regurgitates something from 12 years ago!!!
Sorry but I'm deleting all that from this thread. And I'll ask you again, Don: submit an article on this topic for creating a new thread of your own that I can add these posts back to.
Or don't. That of course is entirely up to you. But please do not repost Colin's excellent article for a third time…
You know what the Yanks say? Three strikes and you're out!
205 Posted 24/06/2022 at 11:20:28
We need a 6 desperately, fuck it we need an 8 as well while we are at it. Winks may not be who we want but sometimes we can't get who we want, we need the next Gueye or Makelele. Any suggestions? I wouldn't mind Winks on loan, he can play a bit in a 3, I'd love Zinchenko or Gallagher to sit further upfield. We need to shift some midfielders too.
206 Posted 24/06/2022 at 11:48:17
No. I believe your thinking is too rigid.
We need good players. That's the most important thing. Players who can score goals, crest chances etc will always be the difference between winning matches and not winning them.
Undoubtedly we need to be better defensively and have more legs in midfield. But talks of 6s 8s and whatever else is making assumptions on what system Frank wishes to play and what system we will adopt.
Richarlison is going and will need to be replaced. Signing Harry Winks will not come close to filling the void that such a player will leave.
Once you have quality - you can add a steady Eddie plodder midfielder such as Winks from anywhere. There's tons of players of his like out there for the fraction of the price.
207 Posted 24/06/2022 at 11:52:54
208 Posted 24/06/2022 at 12:16:47
209 Posted 24/06/2022 at 12:56:55
We are all mostly agree that second rate players like Rondon, Tosun and Niasse are not worth bringing in from leagues not up to Prem. standard.
Townsend and Gray sparkled only occasionally.
Alli and Iwobi may do better next term but more goals from the supporting cast is imperative.
The top teams have the abundance of goalscorers in their ranks.
210 Posted 24/06/2022 at 13:01:00
Eddie and others, I don't have any trepidation about doing business with Levy. He's no legend in my book -- has made as many bad deals as good ones, and (like us) some odd hires as manager. And it's not like Spurs have won much in his 20 years on the job.
Our problem has been our own bargaining prowess, not other people's.
211 Posted 24/06/2022 at 14:56:37
You are aware of my dislike of players being judged by 'stats', you can add the fact of describing players by numbers [6, 10. or false 9] to the list.
In my younger days players were judged by their position, [2 and 3] were right & left full backs, [4, 5 & 6], were right half, centre half, & left half. 7, and 11 were right & left wingers, 8, 9, & 10 were inside right, centre forward & inside left, the wing halves and inside forwards would assist in both attacking and defensive duties when necessary. [I suppose todays mid-fielders.]
Like today, there were 11 vs 11 and the better side generally won the game, I attend games now and I still see 11 vs 11, formations don't register with me, but I still leave the ground having enjoyed or endured the football on show.
212 Posted 24/06/2022 at 21:30:46
213 Posted 24/06/2022 at 21:48:08
214 Posted 24/06/2022 at 21:49:49
215 Posted 24/06/2022 at 22:14:51
‘Everton are planning to excerise Abdoulaye Doucoure's contract by a further year, this season. His current contract ends in June 2023, however Everton installed a ‘club option' for an additional year, when he joined the club from Watford, in 2020'
216 Posted 24/06/2022 at 23:11:11
Now we're continuing with zinchenko, which will presumably speed up once the brighton left back joins city 🤞
217 Posted 24/06/2022 at 23:49:17
218 Posted 24/06/2022 at 23:54:59
So it's between Liverpool and Tranmere for Gomes
219 Posted 25/06/2022 at 00:04:06
220 Posted 25/06/2022 at 00:17:10
Winks isn't the worst but thinking what perhaps EFC, coaches are thinking, do they see something that can be unlocked potential, in the player?
May be there's more, but for me this raises deeper questions about acquisition, development and transfer policy at Everton.
But what is the football policy at Everton, in terms of development of a football system, playing culture, from youth to professional?
I hope it's in progress.
221 Posted 25/06/2022 at 00:28:18
222 Posted 25/06/2022 at 00:29:21
225 Posted 25/06/2022 at 02:42:04
I think he'd be an absolute quality signing and his ability to cover different positions could be very useful.
226 Posted 25/06/2022 at 04:23:39
I'm really puzzled Pep is letting Zinchenko go. He's really a quality player. I would be pleased if we got him as our new Phil Neville (ex Manc, FB come CM)
227 Posted 25/06/2022 at 07:03:59
Iwobi's experience and performance at RWB last year would allow him to do similar on the right with Patterson. Alli/Gordon/Gray battling it out for the CAM position in the middle, with a CDM option to maybe come into it against the top teams.
Pickford
Tarkowski Mina Godfrey
Patterson Iwobi Dele Zinchenko Mykolenko
Calvert-Lewin Richarlison
Gordon, Gray, Doucoure, Nkounkou, Dobbin, Simms etc – all offering energy from the bench to make use of the 5 subs. Coleman, Allan and Holgate options there too if we need to if we need to shut up shop.
Not a bad side that. If Richarlison goes, get another striker in (Broja), a CDM (Sangare) and look for another young right-back to push Patterson as Coleman heads to the sunset next summer. Another CM to push Iwobi would be icing on the cake.
COYB!
228 Posted 25/06/2022 at 08:10:07
229 Posted 25/06/2022 at 08:15:55
230 Posted 25/06/2022 at 08:20:08
I've had a good look at his stats and feeling marginally better about it. He clearly takes care of the ball with some of the highest pass completion rates and progressive passing rates in the league. He's not just a sideways merchant. His defensive stats are pretty poor though and clearly he gets little in the way of goals and assists. At best he could be like Jorginho, dictating tempo from the middle, at worst he's like a less handsome Andre Gomes.
It seems a strange purchase for a team not set up to play possession football and my worry is that if Winks isn't making tackles then who is? Do you have to play a ball winner next to him? In which case we have two central midfielders who are likely contributing no goals and no assists. That seems problematic to me given the lack of guaranteed production from other areas.
I think we need a 6 who can pass AND tackle. Cheick Doucoure seems to be able to do both and is apparently close to a £18m move to Palace (who continue to do good business and have transitioned from an old, slow team to a fast, young team very quickly and effectively without spending vast sums.)
231 Posted 25/06/2022 at 08:20:14
I've had a good look at his stats and feeling marginally better about it. He clearly takes care of the ball with some of the highest pass completion rates and progressive passing rates in the league. He's not just a sideways merchant. His defensive stats are pretty poor though and clearly he gets little in the way of goals and assists. At best he could be like Jorginho, dictating tempo from the middle, at worst he's like a less handsome Andre Gomes.
It seems a strange purchase for a team not set up to play possession football and my worry is that if Winks isn't making tackles then who is? Do you have to play a ball winner next to him? In which case we have two central midfielders who are likely contributing no goals and no assists. That seems problematic to me given the lack of guaranteed production from other areas.
I think we need a 6 who can pass AND tackle. Cheick Doucoure seems to be able to do both and is apparently close to a £18m move to Palace (who continue to do good business and have transitioned from an old, slow team to a fast, young team very quickly and effectively without spending vast sums.)
232 Posted 25/06/2022 at 08:47:13
233 Posted 25/06/2022 at 09:12:28
234 Posted 25/06/2022 at 09:12:35
Prior to those last 6-7 games he'd been one of the worst Everton players I've ever witnessed. I'd give him until Christmas to see if this was a flash in the pan or the real thing.
The jury (me) is definitely out on Iwobi.
As for Winks. He's an improvement on Gomes but not by much.
235 Posted 25/06/2022 at 09:18:01
It's probable that the manager wants to change the style. He did initially but then seemed to realise quickly, like Ancelotti, that he couldn't do it with the current players. So we reverted to type.
I'd imagine he will try to bring in players that can play the system and style he wants to implement. Who they are is anyone's guess. But that is his and the DoF's call. Then we can judge them. They reap the rewards of their own judgement or fall on their sword. But we need to give them time. That's been one of the key failings of this current Everton regime.
I'm not getting carried away with names. I've witnessed enough high profile signings that flopped and conversely, enough low profile ones that went onto to be favourites. We just never know.
Bar the odd true great individual, football is more often about building a team. It's a team game. I think of it like cooking for those who find therapy in the kitchen. Get the ingredients and right balance of seasoning and spices correct and you serve up something that makes you proud and pleases those you serve it up to.
236 Posted 25/06/2022 at 09:31:03
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/edson-alvarez-ibrahim-sangare-offer-24317539
Sounds like Frank wants Winks, Winks wants to come and Levy is digging his heels in value wise. I don't think we should be over a barrel to Levy for this player, and should be fully prepared to forgo him if the deal is not right for us. Frank will not be too happy about that but he'll have to deal with it. A loan with an option to buy, definitely NOT an obligation to buy. Even if this option involves a reasonable loan fee.
237 Posted 25/06/2022 at 09:34:43
We need to play with more aggression and we need to play a lot quicker imo, and looking back to the Brentford game, we were blowing them away, before a couple of key decisions went against us, and how we started that game, is hopefully something that is eventually going to become our normal style of play?
238 Posted 25/06/2022 at 09:52:41
239 Posted 25/06/2022 at 10:11:20
As with any player arriving at Everton I will be cheering them on and not judging them in a toffee shirt till they've had a decent chance. But if Lampard is looking for a ball playing number 6 I think there may be options out there who offer more than Winks. However if he comes I'll obviously wish the best of him and he does have qualities we lack.
240 Posted 25/06/2022 at 10:31:33
I like Nørgaard a lot. Very decent midfielder who does great work defensively but also chips in at the other end too. An unglamorous but effective player like him is exactly what we need. He'd have been on my lists if he was a bit younger.
241 Posted 25/06/2022 at 10:54:30
Rumours are we will sell Richarlison to Chelsea and maybe take 1 or 2 of their players as part exchange, but how that helps our FFP position much, I am not sure.
Also, I would imagine the 2 Chelsea players' wages added together would probably be more than what we are paying Richarlison, so again it doesn't reduce our FFP by much, if anything at all.
So maybe it might be the right time to sell Calvert-Lewin to Newcastle for £50 million that would at least make a dent in our FFP position. I know many fans like me hate FFP but it's here and we have to live within the rules or end up like Derby County, so it's imperative we stay on the right side of the rules.
Also, I know the club have said they have been working closely with the Premier League over our FFP position, but maybe they have told the club they may have to do a lot more before the 30 June to stay compliant with the rules.
242 Posted 25/06/2022 at 11:22:40
I'm sure all contracts run until the last day of June, so Everton will be getting a few more off the wage bill next week, and it's possible things will start moving then anyway. This could possibly also be why Tarkowski hasn't been introduced as an Everton player just yet.
243 Posted 25/06/2022 at 11:26:42
Always encouraging to see someone that knows which way the wind blows.
244 Posted 25/06/2022 at 11:48:42
Indeed, that strategic recruitment and development is what has made Norgaard (a pretty mediocre footballer) into an effective part of a Brentford side which is very much more than the sum of its parts.
So it's not so much that we should be buying Norgaard - more that we shouldn't be scared to build a team which includes players of the right profile and qualities for the specific role in the side.
As Norgaard shows us, the right player might be someone struggling for games at a mid-table Serie A side.
It all starts, therefore, with how Lampard wants to set us up.
The players to fit that system are all out there - and don't need to cost a fortune.
245 Posted 25/06/2022 at 11:57:04
In terms of your " flexible player valuation" approach I'm not sure it matters... the only figure that counts is the actual money we receive. Or am I misunderstanding you?
As for your gambling suggestion, I'd be pretty confident that, once the inflated price was paid... Moshiri would very quickly remember that gambling is against his religion!
246 Posted 25/06/2022 at 12:07:30
247 Posted 25/06/2022 at 12:29:36
It's early days but I like what I am hearing from Kevin Thelwell.
248 Posted 25/06/2022 at 12:29:56
That interview makes for good reading. Firstly, it indicates that we are looking to introduce a system and recruit accordingly rather than the patchwork quilt or "buy and see what happens" approach of recent seasons.
Secondly, it made me purr like a Cheshire cat reading that Lampard wants the players to enjoy the football. For too long our players seem to have feared it.
Tony, yes. Despite last season, we have a core nucleus of decent players. We all know or have views on where the gaps are. But the addition of a few new players to inject energy and tempo will be vital. And by 'tempo', I don't mean 'pace'. Players who can impact the game, be comfortable on the ball, and turn the game around quickly to get us on the front foot.
Sam & Robert, seems like we're saying similar things. It's about getting the right blend to play the system the manager wants but yes quality matters. Like a good wine!
If there is any truth in the Chelsea rumours, I'd prefer doing business with them than Levy. It still seems to suggest £50M plus players, which is a £70M deal, which is where I think Tottenham are aiming at too.
But all speculation & rumour. I guess we'll see what the next few days serve up on the hot plate.
249 Posted 25/06/2022 at 12:51:19
He would be a great signing and wouldn't break the Goodison Park bank account neither.
250 Posted 25/06/2022 at 13:52:40
He has endorsed a move to Everton, so it's official: don't touch him with a barge pole!
251 Posted 25/06/2022 at 15:56:53
252 Posted 25/06/2022 at 19:31:57
In another news, Rondon has apparently said that he wants to stay and fight for his place which can be translated to "I want to stay and collect my wages no matter what"!
253 Posted 26/06/2022 at 01:00:27
Why are we not hearing the club using the word 'definite'? Even if the players are here on loan. So much for this "Rebuild"!!
254 Posted 26/06/2022 at 03:41:19
255 Posted 26/06/2022 at 07:45:35
I wasn't talking about our finances, or even announcing intended transfers. Take a look at the Everton News at the top of this page. Reporters say this, pundits say that etc. I would prefer to read of a definite transfer, in or out, but there aren't any!
Even the signing from Burnley is still not confirmed. Yet on Sky Sport, I read that Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs etc have already signed up players. Soon there won't be any decent players for us to sign!!
256 Posted 26/06/2022 at 08:19:02
As a signing, it ain't what I call rock and roll.
257 Posted 26/06/2022 at 09:59:04
258 Posted 26/06/2022 at 11:24:05
Whenever he plays, he's targeted straight away. Look back to the Real Madrid game: all the attacks came down his side and cost Man City the game.
Having said that, midfield is his preferred position, and looking at him play there for Ukraine, he's a completely different player, and would definitely be a great addition.
259 Posted 26/06/2022 at 15:23:26
For us, I expect he would play as a central-ish (not holding) midfielder in a 433.
260 Posted 26/06/2022 at 15:38:34
261 Posted 26/06/2022 at 15:47:34
262 Posted 26/06/2022 at 16:09:35
263 Posted 26/06/2022 at 16:16:32
The other thing about the end of June is that that is the cutoff date for FFP rules for this year, so expect outgoings to happen before 30 June and incomings to happen after that.
If things are desperate, I expect Richarlison to be gone by then; if not, then finances might not be as bad as predicted.
264 Posted 26/06/2022 at 16:18:03
Frank helped keep the club in the Premier League by adopting a pragmatic approach with our poor squad (we were in free-fall before then). I'd happily bet you a small charitable donation that he will not be gone by Christmas. (If he is, then we really will be in a bad way!)
I expect an improvement this season following the conclusion of the transfer window. We won't be challenging for honours but we will be better than last time out.
265 Posted 26/06/2022 at 16:22:56
266 Posted 26/06/2022 at 16:47:08
267 Posted 27/06/2022 at 07:31:36
270 Posted 27/06/2022 at 14:37:32
Not sure if it is true but a few rumours that Everton have until 30th June to prove they a have abided by FFP rules and that they don't unless they sell before the 30th. So maybe thats why Spurs have the upper hand in what they pay.
271 Posted 27/06/2022 at 14:38:37
I thought I read something some time back which suggested that it was simply a deadline for submitting initial financial plans. It's not a "cut-off" date as I recall by which transfers have to be actually completed so it shouldn't necessarily impact our transfer "strategy".
Can anyone shed any light?
272 Posted 27/06/2022 at 14:42:31
Ancelotti really wanted the 25-year-old Højbjerg from Southampton. Instead, he went to Spurs for around £15 million, and is now one of their better players. Everton instead got Allan, the 30-year-old from Naples, for £20 million, who has got worse.
Spurs have just signed Bissouma, much favoured from Brighton, for £33 million, and now Spurs want Everton to help pay for him by paying the ridiculous sum of £20 million for Winks, who is not as nearly as good as Bissouma, but is more like Allan.
273 Posted 27/06/2022 at 14:54:20
I think the caveat that's missing here is having any big player sales "to be included in the accounts for 2021-22" – and therefore to potentially improve our compliance with the Premier League's Profit and Sustainability Rules by having that transfer income offset against and directly reducing our losses for the Financial Year.
274 Posted 27/06/2022 at 14:59:29
That makes sense.
275 Posted 27/06/2022 at 15:02:56
276 Posted 27/06/2022 at 15:03:32
Question for you, if the takeover happens and the club's debts are written off, does that affect the rules?
an we spend more money or is that still down to the new owners to also bring in as much sponsirship money as they can so we can spend more?
277 Posted 27/06/2022 at 15:10:09
278 Posted 27/06/2022 at 15:18:37
Thats even more illuminating.
280 Posted 27/06/2022 at 15:35:33
If you listened to Andros Townsend on talksport praising Lampard for turning around a broken squad with a losing mentality, and Andros who had a good relationship with Benitez, it's not Lampard who hasn't a clue!
281 Posted 27/06/2022 at 16:04:49
Let's hope it's not the case but, if Richarlison goes for anything less than £60M, we know we've been had cos of our own ongoing incompetence. I can't believe our chap would be stupid enough to at the same time let Gordon go out the door, but you never know with Farhad.
I think people wondering what we are going to do with the Richarlison money are forgetting about Alli, in that it's already been spent. We do of course have the option of never playing him, but I suspect that one of the reasons we are sniffing around Winks is cos there is a player who is used to playing with Alli, so I suspect we will end up spending £60M on the pair of them.
I hope Frank knows what he's doing. cos that's a lot of money when you''re down to your last fiver.
282 Posted 27/06/2022 at 21:31:32
I'm just reading in The Mirror that Everton paid £5.5M for Nathan Patterson, which is a lot closer to his real value than the £11M quoted in most other places.
They say that it could rise to £11M with add-ons, which seems an odd coincidence. Someone has the numbers wrong... but who?
283 Posted 27/06/2022 at 22:00:53
I do recall Rangers openly congratulating themselves on the fee achieved at the time. From the tone, I don't think they were bluffing.
284 Posted 28/06/2022 at 19:38:33
Harry Winks reminds me of Tom Cleverley; distinctly average and perhaps made to seem better than he is by having some much better teammates to keep the opposition occupied.
I would expect him to be horribly exposed if asked to operate as our lynchpin. I could be wrong and it may be the making of him to become the ‘main man'?
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1 Posted 22/06/2022 at 16:55:06