In a recent post, Christine Foster drew an interesting line delineating the parts of the club she supported and the parts she didn't. It was in response to yet another anti-establishment rant from Don Alexander. (These and subsequent posts from that thread are posted below.)

Accepting that we probably all draw such lines, consciously or not, may help to understand the complexities and inconsistencies of our support for what we see as the entity that is Everton.

The question might be set as this: How far beyond the team on the field of play does your support extend?

The individual players?

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The manager?

The coaching staff?

The Academy, U21 and U18 teams?

The Everton Ladies?

The operational management of the club, from stewards, tickets, club shops, up to the CEO?

Commercial ventures and sponsorship?

The Ownership Structure of the club (Board, Director of Football, Chairman Kenwright, Owner Moshiri)?

Everton in the Community?

Everton Heritage Society? 

The Ruleteros Society?

I guess you could go on to list all the Everton-themed Websites and Podcasts as well. Let's consider those, and indeed some of the elements listed above, as secondary to the main focus of what we are calling our support

For me, it's firstly the team and the games they play, and so naturally the players also (though they tend to come and go...). 

Support for the manager is conditional on the job I think he is doing, getting the best out of those players, having them play as a team. I haven't really grieved over the loss of a manager since Joe Royle's spell ended rather abruptly, but I've always liked Big Joe.

The coaching staff? I know next to nothing about them. Which is perhaps illogical as they have arguably the next biggest influence (after the manager?) on how the team performs on the field, on the day. 

Back to the players, though: here's where there is for me an undeniable and fundamentally essential link with the Ownership Structure of the club. They make the key buy, sell, or loan decisions on the players we have (or don't have) – or so we are led to believe. 

Which brings me (in an admittedly roundabout way) to the question here: We are admonished repeatedly to Get behind the team – the team provided for us by the club ownership.  

We are intermittently admonished to rise up against and express our displeasure at portions of the ownership structure because of a conviction that they are, of course, directly responsible for our current situation, and that we, the fans must do something to make things change. This is a perennial theme from the Blue Union to the 27 Years Campaign. 

Yet these campaigns suffer from some common problems, the main one being interpreted as apathy in the vast majority of the fanbase. But I think many fans struggle to show support for them because of their own ideas about 'support' of the club which, for example, made the 27 Years Campaign call for people to stand up and leave on 27 minutes during a game completely untenneable for most fans.  

And it's even more difficult for many to turn on an owner who has sunk hundreds of millions of pounds into the club and into a new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock. Yet still some repeatedly lament the fact that the Blue Base do not rise up and overthrow the tyrants in charge. 

Interestingly, our greatest crisis in many a long and frankly awful year was the threat of relegation last season that saw the brief emergence of the 27 Years Campaign, before it was replaced by a much more effective call to arms in terms of a complete and desperate show of support for the team and the manager.  

The most commonly used phrase that has appeared this season is work in progress to describe the rebuilding of the team – something that will obviously take time, as most fans surely recognize and accept.  In this context, the repeated and increasingly manic calls to eviscerate the board et al seem tedious in the extreme.

 

 

 

Reader Comments (63)

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Don Alexander
1 Posted 02/11/2022 at 03:25:32
Christ on a bike…

We still have supposedly worthy full-on Evertonian participants discussing the virtues or faults of various members of our so-called squad as the apparent source of all of our huge difficulties.

This is without any reference at all to the ineptitude of those at the top of our club who've created the need for the appointment of such inadequate players such as Townsend and several others in obvious recognition that the fabulous 3-year "project" vociferously promised by Moshiri seven fucking years ago is now beyond dust.

We're still run by muppets.

Discussion of players, systems, etc etc etc is irrelevant whilst those bozos are still in charge of the club.

Wake fucking up, Folks!!!

Mike Gaynes
2 Posted 02/11/2022 at 04:47:57
Now there's an interesting idea. We could be the first footy website to eliminate all discussions of the players and manager.

Just executive management and fish puns.

Brian Murray
3 Posted 02/11/2022 at 09:08:16
In the history of football, I can't remember one successful team that's done anything, besides maybe a cup run, that is cack handedly ran.

Martin Edwards at Man Utd; David Dein at Arsenal; the Leicester board; Abramovich and the other shower. The list goes on… it's like any business.

Unfortunately, Don is spot on – we can paper the cracks with even getting what we need in January, and having top coaches and Frank showing potential. Can't just keep shutting our eyes and having a club within a club.

Danny O’Neill
4 Posted 02/11/2022 at 09:23:37
Just back from a trip to the vets.

I spent time this morning chuckling away at Don and Mike's posts. Both valid and relevant points, but made me smile in agreement with both.

I don't need to say much more from my perspective as Christine nailed it.

Brian Williams
5 Posted 02/11/2022 at 10:26:24
Christ on a bike, even on this thread we still have supposedly worthy full-on Evertonian participants.

Don, a question if I may?

Who the fuck put you in charge of deciding who's a "supposedly worthy" Evertonian, or not?

By all means scream and shout about the board, I think you've done that a few times if I'm not mistaken, but don't question other Evertonians whose opinions or thoughts differ from your own because that just makes you look like a bit of a twat to be honest.

Just sayin'.

Dave Cashen
6 Posted 02/11/2022 at 13:13:10

Don,

You're right, of course; we should take in turns to emulate you.

One poster can come in and say "Moshiri is a Cunt" then the next poster can follow up with. "Kenwright is a twat" then the next poster can come on and say "Moshiri is a cunt". The fella after him can then say *Kewright is a Twat".

Before we know it, every post will be as riveting as yours. TW would crash under the sheer numbers coming on everyday to see others repeat what they said yesterday and the day before.

Forget discussing the game. Nobody need ever again give any thought whatsoever to what they are posting.

Of course the real bonus would be we would no longer be "supposedly worthy Evertonians"... We could all be really worthy. Like you.

Dennis Stevens
7 Posted 02/11/2022 at 14:37:06
I know with the NHS in it's current state it's almost impossible to get a GP appointment, but that seems a bit desperate, Danny. Hopefully, the vet gave you a clean bill of health!
Dave Abrahams
8 Posted 02/11/2022 at 16:20:05
I think it is all about the players and the manager, they are the people who provide the success or the opposite of it. Although that seems very foolish when I look back to the man who really provided the first successful Everton team I had ever seen in the old First Division, John Moores. He really did make a vast difference to the way Everton operated; then again, it looks even more foolish when you look back at how Kenwright's running of the club has done the complete opposite of the way Mr Moores decided how the club should be run.

Cliff Britton was the manager when I first started following Everton. I had a lot of time for him even though we were relegated under him and then came back up with him. There was a huge outcry when he was fired around 1956 with the columns of the Echo filled with letters of support or otherwise about him staying or going, every player in the first team signed a petition to keep him, even one who, allegedly, didn't get on with him.

So, for me, since then the important people have been the manager and players have always taken my interest, with the best, Harry Catterick and Howard Kendall, providing the highlights and a variety of other managers providing many interesting seasons but mostly indifferent and poor seasons.

Joe Royle provided a great cup run and won the FA Cup for us and gave us a very good season in the league but I wasn't disappointed when he went although I'd swop him for some who have managed the club before and since.

The last three decades have been mostly hard work watching the Blues, really depressing at times... That's why I find it incredible that Everton, the club I love, have such wonderful supporters, plenty of whom have never seen us win a sausage. Thousands who travel up and down the country, season after season, spending good time and money, and getting very little back in return. Those of us who have seen good days, just not enough, and continue to follow this club of ours through thick and thin.

So, at the end of the day, those supporters are the most important people at the club – always have been and always will be. We can argue forever about the merits or otherwise of other people who have come and gone or are still here, and they do affect my thinking.

But I'd rather switch off about them and think of the great Evertonians I have known, more gone than still here to be honest, who make me smile and feel proud to have known them, along with those I still share time and memories with, as well as the Toffees on here who I have never met.

Tony Hill
9 Posted 02/11/2022 at 17:10:16
Top words, Dave.
Nick Page
10 Posted 02/11/2022 at 17:27:11
Not fucking Kenwright
Christine Foster
11 Posted 02/11/2022 at 17:44:00
Michael, although you didn't repeat my post, you expanded upon it and got the point across, I can offer only my clarification as I see it.

I am a stakeholder, a supporter of Everton Football Club. It's as much a part of me since my first memories of childhood and has been the single most constant love affair of my life.

But, the way the club is run to me is separate to the support I give the team(s). In simple terms, the teams want to win, compete, challenge and be the best. Owners might have the same driving force but combine it with knowledge, funds or expertise to get there. They are the vehicle that makes it happen.

In principle that's a great analogy, but the reality is that some people own clubs without the means, the expertise or desire to make them exceptional. One could say Kenwright loves the team, but he neither had the funds nor expertise to run the club and I believe that's partly true. That can only happen for a very short period of time before the wheels come off the trolley, which they did, big time.

In short, the marriage of Moshiri and Kenwright should have made sense, a man with money but little footballing expertise, a man with no money but experience in the Premier League. It fell apart because both dabbled in the sides of the business they had no expertise in.

But for me personally, the rot that was Kenwright set in with the failed attempts at moves, the shadow type advisors and associates, Kirkby, the BVI loans, the AGMs, the lies, the inquiry, the promises etc, etc...

Here was a chancer, who professed his love for the club, but kept hold of it and tried to silence the questions, the concern and eventually the fans and shareholders themselves. The trust in leadership was broken.

In most businesses, the company is sold, new owners come in, and a broom sweeps the boardroom clean. In the case of Everton FC, the opposite happened: a new owner came in and consolidated the board of a failed company.

In my professional experience, it was unheard of, except when the board is only really concerned with running the non-essential or critical, areas of the club, leaving the owners to continue to play with their toys. You could write a book on it; somewhere it's probably already been done.

But, like a lover you gave your trust in, saw it continually broken, were lied to and found out, no matter how you paper over the cracks, the trust and faith you never questioned has gone. That for me is why I believe Kenwright should no longer deserve my support.

But my hope, my love for the team(s) will forever have my support. I only hope whoever is in charge in the future is the enabler to set in place the jigsaw of players, manager and marketing to bring us, the fans, the success we crave.

Barry Rathbone
12 Posted 02/11/2022 at 17:47:12
I'm old school and prefer the "ignorance is bliss" aspect of football fandom and support anything and everything blue. Not to say I can't see issues but generally I lean toward giving the benefit of the doubt to all concerned.

Liverpool, Ipswich, Forest, Derby, Leeds are the only parochial teams I can think of that produced successful teams from virtually nothing – the common factor being extraordinary managers.

Ours arrived as Kendall Mk1 but, as usual, we failed to capitalise – but my point is I don't think our board was more effective then than it is now and neither were those of the clubs mentioned, most of whom are now hapless no-marks.

In my opinion, people expert in their own field tend to judge perceived issues at the club in the light of their own expertise. How many financial experts, company directors and small business owners do we have pontificating on the inner workings of EFC without really knowing what goes on?

It's true Kenwright and Co have overseen a trophyless era but, given the evidence of clubs that have supplanted us at the top table – Chelsea, Man City and almost certainly Newcastle – the common factor is not boardroom brilliance but boardroom coffers.

Mike Gaynes
13 Posted 02/11/2022 at 17:49:18
Dave #8, what a brilliant post.

Those last three paragraphs should be carved on a plaque somewhere.

Danny O’Neill
14 Posted 02/11/2022 at 17:56:00
Everton. Simply Everton. Since I can remember. Since I've ever known.

I have my views on the board and the Chairman. I go on about the Academy a lot, the structure of the club and many other things. But it's always about Everton. They part dominate my life. Always have done.

When it comes down to it, whether I'm watching on TV or turn up in person as often as I can, it's all about the players and the manager. Even when the first part of last season and the Allardyce stint was difficult for me to stomach, it was still about the team on the occasion.

I'm getting more emotional and reflective as the years go by, but as Dave Abrahams alludes to, it's the supporters that are the spirit of our club. We make us what we are and we prove that, week-in & week-out.

Unbelievable. Their passion and dedication is unrivalled. I say "their" because many of them have not been as fortunate as me and others to have witnessed success. When they do, they will literally lift the roof off the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock. And I'll help them do so. Maybe one for the Grand Old Lady before she bows out.

Back on theme. Always Everton. Forever Everton.

John Keating
15 Posted 02/11/2022 at 18:00:06
Spot on Dave.

We can question certain players at certain times and their input into the team but I believe no player deliberately goes out to fuck up. Therefore I support anyone, male or female, who wears the shirt.

Similarly with the playing staff brought in by the manager – not necessarily those favored by the board because they used to play for us.

As regard to this board, I have nothing but contempt for the incompetence they have led us with, from the first day Kenwright walked in as Chairman.

I do, however, sympathy for Moshiri. The money he's put in and the fact he's building our new stadium cannot be faulted.
His biggest fault was not binning the incompetents he kept on after his takeover.

I do think the club, and the only thing I credit Kenwright for, is the PR he introduced with EitC and Hillsborough. The support our club gave our neighbours was, in my opinion, far more than our neighbours gave for their own – who can forget the visual impact the two kids wearing shirts 9 and 6 had.

Christine Foster
16 Posted 02/11/2022 at 18:09:32
Barry, I admire your ability to adopt an "ignorance is bliss" perspective, and I am sure Mr Moshiri gave Mr Kenwright, "the benefit of the doubt" when he asked him where the half a billion went.

Money, lots of it, pre FFP, went to Man City and Chelsea to make them successful, but anyone arriving now, Everton or Newcastle for the latest example, will find that buying success is far harder than it was.

A literal glass ceiling of clubs with substantial funds pre FFP are at the top table and the drawbridge has been pulled up.

Brian Murray
17 Posted 02/11/2022 at 18:21:50
Dave @6.

I don't know Don but I'm sure his point wasn't about who's worthy or more of a blue or more of a person.

Just probably frustrated as we all want us to rise and be a force on and yes, off the pitch.

Nick Page
18 Posted 02/11/2022 at 18:26:28
I reckon Newcastle won't find it difficult, Christine. Fucking Sky loved the soft gets when Keegan brought them up and they were chucking cash around for fun (again, like Man City with Shinawatra, they've had two bites of the same cherry).

They've moved into the protected team status now due to the utterly despicable Premier League money whores who covet the Saudi's involvement. Not only will they be pushed up the league through the usual refereeing antics, they'll also be able to pump all sorts of cash through the club with inflated sponsorship deals etc, selling shirts all over the shop (just like City… who still can't even fill their stadium), which will let them spend even more money.

The whole thing is bent as fuck. The Saudis wouldn't have got involved if the cocksuckers at Premier Legaue HQ couldn't guarantee them this.

Sean Roe
19 Posted 02/11/2022 at 18:38:08
For me, football is a release from the stresses of life, so my interest is purely what happens on the pitch on a Saturday afternoon at 3pm and the decisions made by the current manager that affect the outcome of the match.

The corporate stuff is of no interest to me. That is for somebody else to worry about. I will support Everton whatever decisions are made and whatever league them ''decisions'' might see us competing in.

I do like to spend other people's money when it comes to transfers, of course, but don't we all?

Barry Rathbone
20 Posted 02/11/2022 at 18:59:46
Christine @16,

I wish we could find it as difficult as Newcastle waltzing into the top tier without breaking sweat.

The new boardroom might not have the commercial acumen of the previous incumbent, Mike Ashley, but I bet the Barcodes prefer the new mega-rich and their current trajectory, to the drudgery and relegation of previous commercially savvy owners.

Brian Harrison
21 Posted 02/11/2022 at 19:09:13
I know many have posted over time about members of the board or our owners, and I include myself in those posters.
But what you want from an owner or a board is to select the manager and back him with all the funds that the club can afford or in recent times FFP will allow you to spend.

Ian Buchan was manager when I first started going to Goodison, and we were just starting to rebuild after being relegated. Then, some years later, Sir John Moores took over as owner. He pumped in huge sums of money to allow Catterick and Kendall to buy pretty much who they wanted, and the club delivered in terms of winning trophies.

Then, when the Moores money was no longer there, the club were taken over by Peter Johnson and, after a brief spell in which he sold Ferguson without telling the manager, and thought he would take prospective signings to his Park Hamper business rather than Goodison.

After the selling of Ferguson to Newcastle and by not telling Walter Smith, that was the final straw for fans and they demanded he left, which he did. This brought Kenwright and his consortium in and, soon after sacking Smith, they appointed Moyes.

First he saved them from possible relegation and thereafter kept the club usually in the top half of the table. Moyes always said that Kenwright gave him all the money the club could afford and sometimes more than they could afford.

Then we entered the Usmanov & Moshiri era and again huge sums were pumped into the club but a succession of poor managers wasted the money.

So I think, as I said from the start, a chairman or owner must pick the right manager, which we haven't done on many occasions, and then back them with all the finances at the club's disposal, which the club have done. The players and the managers must take 90% of the blame as to why we have failed to win as many trophies as we should have.

Jerome Shields
22 Posted 02/11/2022 at 19:35:33
My opinion is derived from my own experience. I have played for teams who have succeeded and who have failed. The successful ones had the right attitude from top to bottom and the whole club was orientated to winning.

A team that fails has cliques at the top of the club and cliiques who decided who played, normally with a connection to them. Even while playing, the team would have a clique that kept the ball amongst themselves and would be quick to shift blame.

The other thing was success and failure went in cycles. A team that was failing and at a low ebb, no-one wanted anything to do with. Then, a better manager came in and better players. This was because better people were running the club and everybody was pulling together. Success followed.

The AGM attendance increased and new people were voted in, the successful old guard were voted out or decided to get out on a high. The club wasn't as well run, the manager was worked out and then favoured players were brought in.

In professional football you have the added problem of money... in the Premier League, loads of it, and the self-interest that goes with it.

So where is Everton in this cycle? It is a club that has repeatedly failed to deliver. They now have a better manager, selected by the fans and supported by them. They have players with a better attitude but still there are flaws in consistency for a number of players.

This means that the manager's tactics are not fully implemented and Everton fall back on defensive displays that, especially in the Premier League, increase the percentage chance of that sucker goal and defeat.

The flaws in midfield and attack skew the manager's tactics from attacking and defending as a unit, to deep defence,e particularly in the second half. But I do think that the manager will be able to address this and progress.

But then the inevitable drag of a poor management team on the commercial and operational side will come into play, making less money available for new players, botching contract negotiations (eg, Gordon but there are other numerous examples over the years).

They are interested only in maintaining their power base politics in the boardroom, even seeking changes in ownership to strengthen their own self-interests.

It all boils down to a successful team has people who are successful running it. People who are unsuccessful running a club will never be able to change to be able to run a club successfully. The manager can only bring the team on so far.

I am firmly in the Don camp in that, until the management that runs the club is changed, the progress of the club will be limited, no matter how good the manager is.

Where do I stand as a humble supporter? I will support the team and voice my opinion in the hope that it will affect the Everton consciousness and play a small part in changing the club, because change at the top is very necessary.

However, I do wonder if it ever will change and now concentrate on the glimmer of hope that better performances and time will bring necessary change, since it is not in my control.

Brendan McLaughlin
23 Posted 02/11/2022 at 19:54:45
Brian #21

"The players and the managers must take 90% of the blame as to why we have failed to win as many trophies as we should have."

I suspect most fans agree and that's why the calls for protests against the Board have largely fallen on deaf ears.

Kieran Kinsella
24 Posted 02/11/2022 at 20:06:52
To me, Everton is analogous with war. If England is having a war, obviously you want England to win.

But, with that having being said, you can point out General Haig's "Over the top" tactics suck while not being unpatriotic. Or get annoyed with deserters, traitors etc while supporting the cause.

Don Alexander
25 Posted 02/11/2022 at 20:21:40
Erm, COAB!

My message used @#1 was posted on a different thread to Michael's opinion piece. I had no idea it was to seemingly be a catalyst for him.

That said, I have for many years been frustrated beyond measure by the ineptitude, complacency and bullshit emanating from Kenwright so I've said so – repeatedly. I have supported and will support any supporter action to be rid of him out of our club.

I don't denigrate any Evertonian and my use of language was and is intended to reiterate the futility of decades-long supporters berating managers and/or players whilst the bloke in charge of the mediocre situation we're still in remains our (OUR?!!) chairman.

Some of us on here dissect "transition" on the pitch, "closing the space" and such like, whilst I limit myself to occasionally questioning just how professional footballers seem to be unable to regularly pass or shoot accurately.

Either way, all of us are discussing employees of sometimes modest talent who have one common thread between them: namely, that they're all here courtesy of the chairman or owner. Until that changes, I don't think we'll get the improvement we all crave.

And as an aside, I have submitted pieces on other subjects than Bill Kenwright and some have been published.

Brian Murray
26 Posted 02/11/2022 at 20:59:59
Brenda. Post 23. The powers that be embrace and adore that sort of ignorance. Amen brother. Let them roll.
Peter Mills
27 Posted 02/11/2022 at 21:04:14
I support Everton Football Club, and everyone who has its best interests at heart. Hell, I've even provided shelter to an American in that aim!

So, I love to see a baby in an Everton suit. A child in our shirt. I cannot stop a tear if a hearse passes with a coffin with a blue and white wreath.

The sight of Goodison still invokes so many family memories. The efforts of Rob Sawyer, David France and others in the Heritage Society. Seeing a grave near Lille identified, filled me with pride.

A sponsor, if the owner is a fan, as our new Global Timing Partner is. Talking with Dave Thomas and Bob Latchford who were overwhelmed that they are still held in such high regard.

Great players who fall for the club, like Alan Ball, Neville Southall and Tim Cahill. But I can also have a soft spot for the likes of Stracqualursi, if they give their all.

Like everyone on here, and so many other places, I am anxious about what has happened to our club over the past 30 years. The mis-management, dereliction of duty, manipulation and leeching by certain directors, managers and players have sickened me.

But, having never left a match before full-time in 60 years, there was no way I was ever going to leave a crucial game after 27 minutes.

Christine Foster
28 Posted 02/11/2022 at 21:31:31
I'm not sure how anyone can be at peace with themselves when they say the are not interested in how the club is run when clearly the reason we have been left behind in the Premier League is primarily due to the management of the club and decisions made by Kenwright, in cahoots with messers Green, Earl et al, shady loans way before Moshiri came on board. No money but big pay days.

Bad leadership equals piss-poor performance throughout the club. That's what we ended up with, that's why we ended up with the remnants of a squad chosen by owners and several managers.

So of course crap leadership has nearly killed us. That's why some of us actually care about the way the club is run. If you want to win, it has to be driven from the top in everything you do. If you just want to play, join a Sunday League side...
I got my pride. My passion of being blue.

I get it that people aren't interested in the way the club is run, that's not their bag. But, if your interested in winning, then the whole ethos of the club has to be focused on that.

Brendan McLaughlin
29 Posted 02/11/2022 at 21:56:41
Sssh Brian #26

I'm only "Brenda" at the weekends and on a diffferent website entirely!

Danny O’Neill
30 Posted 02/11/2022 at 21:59:56
Christine, I agreed with an earlier post of yours as you suggested many of us don't like the way the club has been run but support the team when we watch them on the pitch whatever.

Agree, it has to be leadership and top-down driven strategy.

Most of us are interested and concerned in how the club is run. But how can we affect that?

When Saturday comes. That's when we have our impact.

I think they know, but they are blessed to have us.

Bernie Quinn
31 Posted 02/11/2022 at 23:43:19
As usual, I don't have to comment as my thoughts are fully expressed by Christine. Thanks, Love!
Don Alexander
32 Posted 03/11/2022 at 01:38:49
Christine, many of us confuse hopefulness above realism on this site, and that's understandable to me if I adopt the attitude I had as the kid I was when I realised I was a Toffee 60 years ago.

That said, we as supporters have been massively let down since Kenwright wrested control, every year as we've sunk to mediocrity having had to endure, as we have, his self-serving lying mantra of bollock-speak, now long since evidently supported by Moshiri.

The good ship Everton has therefore for decades been holed beneath its waterline – yet weekly many of us on TW only criticise the actions of the captain and crew who understandably fail to sort the problem out given no tools to do so by the hierarchy.

Kenwright delights in this because nowhere near enough of us seek to hold HIM accountable, ever.

Brian Murray
33 Posted 03/11/2022 at 06:26:18
Brendan mc. Apologies 😂
Danny O’Neill
34 Posted 03/11/2022 at 08:53:19
The sacrificial lambs, Don, who are sent to the abattoir to preserve the fat cats in the Main Stand, looking down on the obeying masses.

For too long, we've been blaming managers. Sometimes that is justified and warranted, but the constant in the equation is clear to most of us, even moderates like me.

I'm going to be consistent. Our fall from grace started long ago bar that glorious brief period in the mid-80s. But the scale of neglect and failure to invest after our last title win is both shocking and frustrating when you look back.

However, the total standing still since the Premier League era through the 90s and until now with brief glimpses of false hope is heartbreaking.

He hung on, kept us afloat, but should have gone long ago. And then when we did get the promised land (we thought), it was a deal that kept him and his sideshow in place. If not before, that was definitely the time to go and if he'd have been the Evertonian he claims to be, he would have done that. I've said before, if you want an emotional fool running the show, appoint me.

I don't distrust the owner's intent as he's taking us to what is going to be a magnificent new stadium, which will hopefully be the dawn of a new successful era.

But he failed to grasp an opportunity earlier by ridding of the old and bringing in his own people, competent enough to run a business and a football club.

He funded people who thought they'd won the lottery and didn't know what to with the money so literally threw it up the wall. Now it feels like damage limitation to claw his money back through the stadium. At least he will leave us with that.

Anyway, it's nearly the weekend. Leicester home. Here we go.

Sam Fitzsimmons
35 Posted 03/11/2022 at 09:39:00
Nick Page #18 is very much "on the money".

The biggest factor in this club's mediocrity and decline since the Premier League began is the club just hasn't been able to get investors that have the influence and power needed to compete in a corrupt system.

If Kenwright is to blame, it's because he didn't bring in American or Saudi money to the club. He may have thought that by bringing Moshiri and Usmanov onboard, Everton could compete at the top end, but the system is rigged from top to bottom.

At the elite level of sport, they say it's small margins that win games. On a weekly basis, we despair at referee and VAR decisions that benefit the monied clubs.

The World Cup in Qatar is the ultimate evidence of a how rigged and corrupt the system is.

Brian Harrison
36 Posted 03/11/2022 at 10:01:27
Danny 34,

You are right that Kenwright should have stepped down some years back. But the reason he was left in charge by Usmanov and Moshiri was that neither wanted to be involved in the day-to-day running of the club.

And we know this because, 12 months after buying the club, Moshiri said he only expected his ownership of the club to take no more than 5% of his time. So keeping Kenwright in place to look after the day-to-day running of the club was key as far as Usmanov and Moshiri buying the club.

Also, let's not forget they did make some appointments to the board. Didn't Usmanov have his nephew on the board for a few months and wasn't Ryazantsev also an Usmanov appointment?

I went and had a look round our new stadium the other day and it looks very impressive. But the worry is, now that Usmanov is out of the picture, it's looking more and more likely that Moshiri doesn't want to fund the completion of the new stadium.

The worry is he might sell to anybody who will help him complete the stadium and buy the club. While we as fans will be delighted to move to our new home, we may not like who has helped fund it and who then owns us.

Christine Foster
37 Posted 03/11/2022 at 10:25:16
Brian,

I believe I have said this before but I think Moshiri is looking for investment to complete the stadium but, as of yet, a funding solution has not been found.

Given his absence from Goodison for approximately a year, I think his love of Everton has gone. What's left is the protection of his investment to break even as a minimum, or profit if possible. Who could honestly blame him?

But I fear in the end he will cut a deal that suits him and delivers on his promise of a stadium.

He obviously is not interested who Kenwright appoints to the board, or any internal review; Moshiri has left the building.

Tony Abrahams
38 Posted 03/11/2022 at 10:38:31
If keeping Kenwright in charge to look after the day-to-day running of the club was key, then I'd argue that our chairman could have sold Everton Football Club a thousand times, only that he was waiting to sell on these type of terms.

If this does or doesn't eventually come out in the wash is immaterial imo, because Bill Kenwright has been nothing but a curse and massive stain on Everton Football Club, and helped turn us into a club that stopped trying to really compete and win.

Dave Abrahams
39 Posted 03/11/2022 at 11:00:42
Christine (37),

I think you have got it spot on with the way Mr Moshiri now thinks about his position, and his money situation, at Everton.

I wish in the past he had had a look at his friendship with Kenwright and studied his friend (?) a lot more. I think he was very naive to part with so much money and even so much more trust in the man who took advantage, in my opinion, of this friendship and joined in with the reckless spending of his money without ever thinking of what was being accomplished and how it was affecting the club, never mind giving a thought to his friend who was supplying these millions of pounds.

When I look at Kenwright and his smug face, I think of how he has used this friendship and despise and loathe him, or anyone like him who could use another man for his own gain without, for a single moment, looking back and regretting it. What an odious man, or am I more naive than Mr Moshiri?

Brian Murray
40 Posted 03/11/2022 at 12:51:52
Don't wish Ill health on anyone and that looks the only way Kenwright will be denied his embarrassing day in the sun cutting the tape at the new stadium. It's like inviting Guy Fawkes to open a new wing of parliament.

Obviously ToffeeWeb is not a true cross-section of Evertonians as a lot more than a few hundred would've joined the 27 Years Campaign protest. Talk about thick-skinned and ignorant – just go and take Denise and any other inept employees with you.

Jay Harris
41 Posted 03/11/2022 at 14:49:22
Christine, many true and wise words and observations. And Dave (#39), I totally agree with your last paragraph.

I have always said any man who is only self-interested is a man not to be trusted and yet we have allowed this egotistic self-absorbed man to run our club for almost 30 mediocre years and get away with some of the most deceitful acts we have ever seen.

Back to the thread, my opinion is any successful venture has to create the conditions in which people can be effective and there is no doubt that, at the very top of the club, we are a shambles.

The owner of the club doesn't want to be hands on except for choosing players and manager. The Chairman, who is supposed to be the catalyst for direction and harmony, just sees it as his empire and tries to convince all and sundry he is the best man for the job — except when it comes to accountability, then it is someone else's responsibility.

The Chief Executive Officer is an intelligent and caring woman but hasn't got any experience of running a football club and is the chairman's puppet.

The rest of the organization largely gets my support although I would have preferred to back Ancelotti with his wealth of football success to a relative rookie like Frank, who I really like as a person, but who is still learning on our watch.

We all have our opinions on the players individually and collectively but, when they put that shirt on and go on the pitch, they get my full support.

Christine Foster
51 Posted 03/11/2022 at 16:15:01
Jay, I'm suffering Repetitive Strain injury after that!
Rob Halligan
52 Posted 03/11/2022 at 20:18:57
I know this is not the purpose of the thread, but I often ask a mate of mine “Who do you support”?

I've known him for about 40 years, and when I first met him, he supported Wolves, god knows why?

Then he suddenly changed to Man Utd, purely to wind up the RS that he knows. Claims he's an avid Man Utd fan now, despite hardly ever attending Old Trafford.

So every now and then, me and another mate ask him, “Who do you support?” – particularly when Man Utd lose and Wolves win!

Danny O’Neill
53 Posted 03/11/2022 at 20:26:01
I have 2 examples Rob.

One was a dedicated Preston fan when I first met him aged 16. He's from Preston. He now constantly goes on about his Anfield devoutness.

Another effectively denies he ever supported Tranmere and was always a kopite.

I have photographs!!

Rob Halligan
54 Posted 03/11/2022 at 20:37:54
There’s only one word for it, Danny………..

GLORYHUNTERS!!

Dennis Stevens
55 Posted 03/11/2022 at 21:29:52
My experience is rather the opposite, Danny.

In particular, I'm reminded of a couple of lads who professed to be boyhood reds but gradually seemed to realise that they were actually Southampton & Reading supporters, respectively, as that's who they actually regularly went to watch. It'd long been obvious to everybody but themselves!

Danny O’Neill
56 Posted 03/11/2022 at 21:41:04
Seen it that way around as well myself, Dennis.

A couple of players I coached who were Man Utd fans as kids and ended up being QPR season ticket holders.

My own cousin. His parents from Speke but grew up in Battersea. I have pictures of us as kids. Me in blue and white, him in all red. He ended up being a Chelsea fan. And way before they were successful.

For me, I never knew different. And never wanted to.

Rob Jones
57 Posted 03/11/2022 at 22:22:17
I became an Everton fan at the age of 7, when my brother bought me an Everton shirt from a sale (I'm from a Manchester United supporting family).

This was in 1995, after the FA Cup win.

As a result, I've not seen any success, unlike many older fans, who have known glory and pride. This, to be honest, informs the nature of my fandom. Many older fans, having known success, think we're entitled to it, and are embittered at our decline (perhaps rightly so), and rage about Kenwright at least once every eight seconds.

Me? I just want to not be embarrassed by being a fan, which we all felt in the nineties and early noughties. I'd like a cup win. I'd like to go on a European tour. But mostly, I want to see us, as a fanbase, have a team we're proud of, who feel linked to us.

I'd caveat all I've said with an acknowledgement that, as a Welsh lad living in Cambridgeshire, I'm not a local, and I don't go to enough games. It's the local fans who have to endure Kopite fools, and have stuck with the club despite mediocrity. I can sit here and say all I want is not to feel embarrassed, but we all measure that embarrassment differently.

Sorry if this was rambling.

Eugene Ruane
58 Posted 03/11/2022 at 22:48:43
I can honestly say Everton's top supporters have to be those in New York.

Although I've never met them, all evidence suggests they are knowledgable, smart and most of all, generous to a fault.

The kind of people I've heard who, if they met you in a bar, would insist on buying all your ale and when you tried to buy them one back would probably say "Put your money away, buddy, you're a blue from outta town, the drinks are on us!"

- comedy pause -

Anyway, to change the subject completely, I'll be in The Turnmill Bar in NY on the 12th Nov for the Bournemouth game.

Laurie Hartley
59 Posted 03/11/2022 at 23:46:35
I called for the sacking of the Chairman, the CEO, and the DOF, a year ago purely because they where in charge during the period that –despite the fact huge sums of money were being poured into the club – we had gone from Top 8 to relegation candidates. Nothing personal about that with me. Just common sense.

The proof of that particular pudding is in the eating – look at the difference Thelwell has made to our transfer business.

As far as our owner is concerned, he has gotten a couple of other things right:-

The negotiation of a fixed price for the stadium with Laing O'Rourke;
The appointment of Colin Chong as project director.

But who do I support? Pure and simple – the eleven who pull on the club colours for every game. I can't help it.

Jay Harris
60 Posted 04/11/2022 at 03:01:27
Christine, LOl.
Mike Gaynes
61 Posted 04/11/2022 at 05:19:34
Eugene, in NYC it's Nov. 12th, not 12th Nov.
Danny O’Neill
62 Posted 04/11/2022 at 06:31:09
I wouldn't say us oldies who have witnessed success feel entitled, Rob. We just want a club and team that can compete to win things.

You don't have to caveat anything. You're an Evertonian and it's your generation that I have so much respect for. That's meant genuinely. I was fortunate to witness some of the greatest moments in our history.

My poor son watched the 1995 Cup Final from his pram in Dunlops Social Club. He was 5 months old so obviously doesn't remember it. He watched the semi-final from one of those baby rocker things that I inadvertently flipped him out of when the 4th goal went in and got into a lot of trouble for. Fortunately he landed safely on the couch opposite.

He, and many of the "lost generation" as I keep calling them have had nothing. As I keep saying when I see them and their passion in the grounds around the country, I have nothing but admiration for their commitment. It was easy for me. They've had nothing.

But they keep going. Keep going Rob. It will be rewarded.

I come from an Everton enclave in a family surrounded by a lot of red cousins. My immediate family all blue, but wider family, a proper mixed bunch weighing much more towards the unholy side. Don't play down how much an Evertonian you are. We're all part of the Everton family.

And definitely don't play down your expectation.

Okay, maybe don't be an idiot like me who get's concerned looks from my son and younger brother when I start rambling, but aim high.

Blue dawn rising.

Told you I was a fool!

Eugene Ruane
63 Posted 04/11/2022 at 07:15:45
"Eugene, in NYC it's Nov. 12th, not 12th Nov".

Thanks ,Mike, great tip and one that stops me embarrassing myself.

I was going to enter the bar shouting "HAPPY 12th NOV Y'ALL!!! GO THE EVERTON TOFFEE DUUUDES!!! USA!! USA!! USA!!!"

I'll make sure instead to use 'Nov 12th'.

Anyway I'm sure I'll be given a friendly welcome when they see my outfit and realise I come in peace.

Link

Danny O’Neill
64 Posted 04/11/2022 at 07:28:37
Not having that, Mike. I have this date configuration debate all the time with my US colleagues. Despite having served with US counterparts through most of my careers and owning property out there, that simple tweak still confuses the hell out of me.

Day month year.

Anyway, I'll check out the Turnmill on my next visit to New York, which is looking like it will be January. Hopefully it will coincide with an Everton match.

Tony Abrahams
65 Posted 04/11/2022 at 07:30:49
27 years without a trophy makes us feel entitled? What a chairman.
Rob Jones
66 Posted 04/11/2022 at 07:42:01
Tony, Danny: apologies.

‘Entitled’ is probably the wrong word. As I say though, the younger fans have known nothing but mediocrity, so we're inevitably going to be a bit more pessimistic as fans.

When the height of your fandom is watching a craven team throw away a cup final after an 80-second goal, you give up dreaming big.

Brian Murray
67 Posted 04/11/2022 at 07:43:49
Tony, most Evertonians listen with the intent to reply not to understand. Equals to a continuous glorious ‘good times’ loop with no comebacks.
Danny O’Neill
68 Posted 04/11/2022 at 07:57:58
Don't apologise, Rob, I totally get it as I have conversations with my more sensible and arguably more realistic younger brother and son, who are of the same generation as you, all the time.

I spent the 2009 FA Cup Final in a bar called the Blue Check near Wembley with many other ticketless Evertonians as I'd give my tickets to my brother and son, hoping it would be their moment. Sadly it wasn't but a great day out.

I know you're a grown man, but don't stop dreaming or believing. I do it every day when it comes to Everton. And when you see those young fans at the match, they definitely believe.

Dave Abrahams
69 Posted 04/11/2022 at 10:58:13
Eugene (63),

I hope you have a great trip and a good time in New York.

Looking at your outfit, I take it your carer is going with you!!

Jerome Shields
70 Posted 04/11/2022 at 14:23:02
Christine #17,

I agree, but he has effectively left Kenwright controlling the Club, though things have changed on the playing side since the appointment of Lampard, by the supporters. This to me seems to indicate that Kenwright will still has some influence, which takeover parties will have to take into account.

Tony Abrahams
71 Posted 04/11/2022 at 15:52:39
I could only describe the younger Evertonians as fantastic, remarkable and unbelievable, Rob, and the way they started welcoming the coach from the Chelsea game last season, probably definitely helped keep Everton in the Premier League.

I've commented many times that, when I was growing up, with Liverpool winning everything, Evertonians always seemed to have that act of defiance, and this is what the younger generation of Evertonians gave us towards the end of last season, with memories and scenes that I will take with me to the grave.

Those kids made me very proud. I bumped into my son and his friends in the Black Horse after that Chelsea game, and left that pub praying that they soon see Everton win a trophy. I'm with Danny O'Neill because, the next time Everton win a trophy, the explosion will be incredible, and might just even surpass that evening against Crystal Palace, when the blue smoke around Goodison Park was seen as far away as North Wales.

Eugene Ruane
72 Posted 04/11/2022 at 17:33:15
Dave, 69, you say "Looking at your outfit, I take it your carer is going with you!!"

Yes, in fact that's my carer wearing the outfit.


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