Pickford and England in USA stalemate

25/11/2022 278comments  |  Jump to last
World Cup: Day 6

Jordan Pickford was between the posts again for England in what was a highly-anticipated match-up that failed to deliver, with neither side able to find the net in a goalless encounter.

It was potentially an important day for England but it was massive for Wales as the second set of games for Groups A and B got underway in Qatar.

Iran proved just too strong for Wales and ran them ragged but without scoring and their game looked destined for another goalless draw until the Dragons lost goalkeeper Wayne Hennessey when he ran out of his area and raised a very dangerous high foot on the advancing attacker. 

An initial yellow card was changed to a straight red after the referee was invited by the VAR to check replays on the pitchside monitor. With 10 men, the fierce Welsh resistance was stretched to breaking point and it finally broke 8 minutes into added time – not once but twice – to leave them with a solitary point when they face England on Tuesday.

Article continues below video content

Senegal and Idrissa Gueye eventually triumphed 3-1 over the ardent hosts, Qatar, while, in the third game of the day, the in-form Cody Gakpo was on target again for the Netherlands as they took the lead against Ecuador.

The South Americans had a goal harshly ruled out of offside on stroke of half-time but Enner Valencia knocked in another goal for Ecuador before being forced off with an injury that could yet keep him out of the final group match against Senegal.

As for much-hyped game of Group B, it proved to be another snooze-fest with Gareth Southgate's England especially reverting to their more familiar pedestrian selves while the USA looked for long periods of the game like potentially getting the win but couldn't find the quality in the final third apart from when Christian Pulisic rattled the crossbar in the first half.

10:00 Wales 0 - 2 Iran – BBC 1
13:00 Qatar 1 - 3 SenegalBBC 1
16:00 Netherlands 1 - 1 Ecuador – ITV 1
19:00 England 0 - 0 USA – ITV 1


Reader Comments (278)

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Darren Hind
1 Posted 25/11/2022 at 09:59:06
Brilliant support from the Welsh. Hairs on the back of my neck will take a while to calm down after that rendition of their anthem.

Taffs remind me of Evertonians. Absolutely brilliant supporters deserving of a better team.

To think there are thousands who support both teams... How's your luck?

Meant to add. COME ON WALES!!!

Why can’t I ever feel like that about England?

Danny O’Neill
2 Posted 25/11/2022 at 10:07:14
Best national anthem by a mile and more.

I've never been able to get behind England. Nothing sinister or resentful, just never felt it. I've got worse since living in London.

Soft spot for Wales having been based there for 4 years. Whenever we had memorial or Remembrance services, both anthems were sung.

As you say, spine tingling. Especially when a traditional Welsh male choir sings it.

Rob Halligan
3 Posted 25/11/2022 at 10:55:34
Grim game so far. Iranian forward should not have been caught offside in that situation. He’s looking right along the line and should have held his movement for a split second. Bit like Yerry Mina at Man Utd last season. Mind, I don’t know why the Iranian who passed the ball didn’t shoot himself, bit like Tom Davies at Man Utd last season.
Darren Hind
4 Posted 25/11/2022 at 11:18:45
Those goal post were deffo made in Aberystwyth
Danny O’Neill
5 Posted 25/11/2022 at 11:28:45
I think they might be the Goodison posts Darren. They have certainly been blessed this year and given me many a breathless moment.

If Wales don't win this, it makes for an interesting last group stage, assuming England will beat the USA later.

Peter Gorman
6 Posted 25/11/2022 at 11:39:33
"Mind, I don’t know why the Iranian who passed the ball didn’t shoot himself, bit like Tom Davies at Man Utd last season."

If Tom Davies tried to shoot himself he'd probably miss his head by a metre or two.

Rob Halligan
7 Posted 25/11/2022 at 11:49:26
Didn’t need VAR for that red card. Dangerous play all day long.
Danny O’Neill
8 Posted 25/11/2022 at 11:53:03
Well, regardless of whether there was a covering defender, I'm not sure why the red was ever in question.

Missed the ball by a clear yard and kneed the player in the head.

Iran have outplayed Wales here.

James Hughes
9 Posted 25/11/2022 at 11:59:25
Oh Dear Cymru
Rob Halligan
10 Posted 25/11/2022 at 11:59:38
1-0 Iran, and fully deserved.
Danny O’Neill
11 Posted 25/11/2022 at 11:59:42
In fairness, Iran deserve that
Michael Kenrick
12 Posted 25/11/2022 at 12:00:12
Tremendous game from Iran, just unbelievable that they hadn't scored – until now!

Whereas that Bendan Johnson looks pretty useless in this game.

Rob Halligan
13 Posted 25/11/2022 at 12:02:46
Make that 2-0. England should smash this very poor welsh team.
Andrew Grey
14 Posted 25/11/2022 at 12:05:44
I blame Ryan Giggs!

Well done Iran, well deserved.

Joe McMahon
15 Posted 25/11/2022 at 12:06:25
Sickening for Wales, but yes Iran deserved winners.
Danny O’Neill
16 Posted 25/11/2022 at 12:09:52
Well played Iran.

Kopite flop Allen at the centre of both goals with mistakes. Shame.

On the first goal, why did that defender loosely flick his lower leg out at the ball rather than put his body on the line and block the shot?

I know what Tarkowski would have done.

That aside, well done to Iran. They went for it and got their rewards.

Darren Hind
17 Posted 25/11/2022 at 12:11:05
Gutted for Welsh fans.

Been impressed by Keiffer Moore trying to lead the line in a hard working but ultimately ordinary Welsh team.

This competition came about 4 years too late for the likes of Ramsey, Bale and Allan.

Given the turmoil in Iran at the moment. You cant help feeling pleased that their footy team has provided a little bit of an escape for them

Kim Vivian
18 Posted 25/11/2022 at 12:20:28
If there's a team that epitomises Everton it has to be that Welsh team. Thoroughly deserved win for Iran despite rooting for the Welsh.

I missed the start - did the Iran team remain mute for their anthem?

Pete Clarke
19 Posted 25/11/2022 at 12:21:49
Gut wrenching for the Welsh there but to be deadly honest they were very poor in possession and passing which is where it ultimately cost them. Very much like watching Everton in that second half with almost no quality on the ball. Bale was nowhere to be seen.
They will be fired up to get a bit of pride back against England but if they play like that it won’t work.
Good on the Iranians though because they are having their own major issues and fully deserved to win that game.

Barry Rathbone
20 Posted 25/11/2022 at 12:22:53
Amazing display by Iran although they should have had it wrapped up far earlier they absolutely battered Wales in that second half.
Andrew Ellams
21 Posted 25/11/2022 at 12:25:16
I knew there was a better team than showed up for Iran vs England. A point against the US and they go through if the US fail to beat England
Darren Hind
22 Posted 25/11/2022 at 12:38:12
Not if Wales beat USA too.
Michael Lynch
23 Posted 25/11/2022 at 12:55:39
Iran were magnificent at times going forward, got their tactics spot on, and thoroughly deserved that win against a very poor Welsh side.

Had a bit everything really - and kudos to the TV producers, some of the shots of fans and players after the first goal were superb, showing the highs and lows of the world cup. Also the shots of the Iranian fans openly weeping during their national anthem brings home the reality of the struggle women are facing there right now. Perhaps we don't need the likes of Gary Lineker and Gareth Southgate with their clunking lecturing and posturing. when you see a picture like that.

Si Cooper
24 Posted 25/11/2022 at 13:00:24
Darren, Wales drew with the USA.

Which anthem did they sing? On Monday they sang their adopted anthem ‘Yma o Hyd’ but their official national anthem is ‘Land of My Fathers’ (Hen Wlad Fy isn’t it?

Darren Hind
25 Posted 25/11/2022 at 13:01:28
Sorry I meant England.

Wales are not out yet

Si Cooper
26 Posted 25/11/2022 at 13:08:04
‘Also, the shots of the Iranian fans openly weeping during their national anthem brings home the reality of the struggle women are facing there right now. Perhaps we don't need the likes of Gary Lineker and Gareth Southgate with their clunking lecturing and posturing. when you see a picture like that.’

Maybe not everyone who watches the footie is as clued up on the situation in Iran as you are, Michael. More grist to the mill, say I. I’m certainly not going to criticise anybody who is doing the job of raising awareness about the shittiest of human behaviour, especially when it is promulgated by state leaders and difficult for the sufferers to speak openly about.

Darren Hind
27 Posted 25/11/2022 at 13:18:05

Looking at it. This group is still wide open. I wouldn't bet on England definitely beating the Welsh – especially if they win today. Iran will be bubbling and fancying their chances and you wouldn't write the Yanks off in any sport. They always fancy their chances.

Eddie Dunn
28 Posted 25/11/2022 at 13:35:17
Here in Wales, an exiled Merseysider, I support Wales and England but everyone here remembers the great Evertonians that have worn the Welsh jersey. Rat, Nev, Pat, Gary and Barry and Dai. The best anthem in the World and great fans.

Iran played some lovely stuff, such good feet, first-time balls and finally a great goal. Wales were relying on the old guard but those guys are well past it now. Keifer Moore in January please.

Danny O’Neill
29 Posted 25/11/2022 at 13:40:45
Land of My Fathers is the national anthem of Wales as I understand.

They released a World Cup song based on a 60s folk song, which they've sung at matches in recent times. I believe the title translates to "Still Here".

I find it interesting. Having lived there, for all the history with Rugby Union, and previously little interest in the national football team, the impact the football team has had in the past few years is far outweighing the decades of a previously Rugby dominated nation.

That might upset a few of my Welsh friends who call me a "kiss baller", but considering the general apathy towards the national football team that existed in Wales over the decades in comparison to the Rugby team, they've galvanised a nation in a relatively short period of time.

The last time they will appear on the world stage as Wales apparently.

Eddie Dunn
30 Posted 25/11/2022 at 13:52:57
Danny, my son was in the same class as Joe Allen and the school was just not interested in football, Crymych being a grassroots rugby hotspot with lots of Welsh legends from the locality.
Joe's brother Harry played in my 5-a-side team when we won 8 titles on the trot. (I was the auld man in goal).
When I went in to talk to the Headmaster a few years after Joe had left, I noticed he had a framed photo of Joe on his desk and I pointed out to him that they hadn't even had a football team at the school.
Now Joe's old schoolmates have formed a new football team in Crymych and they are on fire.
That Euro's tournament in 2016 really caught the imagination and football here is getting much more popular with the youngsters.
Now we need Swansea to get back to the PL.
Tony Abrahams
31 Posted 25/11/2022 at 14:01:45
I was talking to my mate before who told me he was listening to talk sport, and they were saying that it was the Welsh, who are responsible for the playing of the National Anthem, before international sport?

They were saying that in response to the kiwis, doing their famous Hakka, the whole stadium started singing land of my father, and this is something that originated, from that day?

I haven’t checked it, but it sounds like a good story to me!

Phill Thompson
32 Posted 25/11/2022 at 14:13:11
Tony, yes indeed that story has some credence it’s been around a long time. Wales we’re playing the All Blacks in 1905 for the first time and the story was the team started singing and the crowd joined in.
Matthew Williams
33 Posted 25/11/2022 at 14:21:24
A shameful display from the Welsh lads,Bale and Ramsey were done after the last Euro's,they've now become the Everton of international footy.

Time to copy the Arsenal route and start with younger players and to find a new Gaffer who is more pro-active and be much bolder and braver.

Am just sick and tired of Manager's who set out their teams not to lose instead of really going for it from the off.

England should comfortably beat the Boyo's without busting a bollock...2-0...if Paige plays the two has beans above it could get even worse!

Danny O’Neill
34 Posted 25/11/2022 at 14:40:49
A great story Eddie.

I have affinity with Swansea. A few of my close friends are from there and having spent 4 years in Haverfordwest, Brawdy to be precise, so I have ties to the region.

Solva is a beautiful place and where I understand our former player Simon Davies played as a youngster. I'm assuming it was on the sloped pitches I drove past many times on the way to St Davids.

I'm going to suggest that Wales have got caught up in the emotion of the occasion on the big stage. I hope they come through, but they're up against it now. Then again, so were we in May.

Danny O’Neill
35 Posted 25/11/2022 at 16:32:09
A midfielder making a forward run and making a decisive pass to the forward runner. Davy Klaassen!!
Rob Halligan
36 Posted 25/11/2022 at 16:59:01
More sad news today, with the death of Neil Robinson, at the tender age of just 65. RIP Neil.
Mike Gaynes
37 Posted 25/11/2022 at 16:59:47
Danny, he's been deemed Championship at best.

Rob, I remember reading something about him... wasn't he the first vegan footballer?

Rob Halligan
38 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:05:02
Something like that Mike. Can’t believe it, he suffered a cardiac arrest at home yesterday. I worked with one of his daughters for a few years and she absolutely idolised him. She will be distraught. Sympathy to Alison and the rest of her family..
Mike Gaynes
39 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:10:54
Wow, our old friend Enner just cashed in again for Ecuador.
Rob Halligan
40 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:11:32
Enner Valencia equalises, and leads the chase for the Golden Boot.
Charles Brewer
41 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:17:30
So the stars of the World Cup so far are Richarlison, Klaasen and Valencia. I wonder what they have in common. Probably some useless footballing skill like scoring, or at least making, goals.

Still, we’ve got more players injured in training than any of the teams in Qatar.

Charles Brewer
42 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:20:27
Valencia nearly scored again. Waste of space obviously
Danny O’Neill
43 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:21:23
I don't remember him Rob, but just looked up. Born on Spellow Lane within 100 yards of Goodison Park.

Equador putting the pressure on now.

Kieran Kinsella
44 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:25:32
I was excited when we signed Valencia as I’d seen him play so well for Ecuador. But like Hagi he seems to be a guy who excels for his country but doesn’t do nearly as well for his clubs. That said we didn’t give him much of an opportunity
Dale Self
45 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:27:53
Gold star for mentioning Gheorge this round. Always one of the underrated greats of this competition.
Peter Mills
46 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:28:00
Very sad news about Neil Robinson, Rob. Remember him scoring one of the 6 we scored against Chelsea the day Big Bob reached his 30 goals for the season.

Wales were poor today, I’ve just had a message from a Welsh mate who’s over there for a week, he’s gutted. One thing about them though, they gave their all, something we don’t always get at Goodison.

Kieran Kinsella
47 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:30:12

Romania v Argentina in 1994 was one of the best games I’ve ever seen with Hagi sublime

Darren Hind
48 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:31:35
Good fun watching the Ecuadorians take it it turn to rough St Virgil up
Kieran Kinsella
49 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:34:51
Based on the noise, it sounds like there are 100,000 Ecuador fans in the stadium.
Rob Halligan
50 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:35:12
Peter, didn’t he score from an attack that could have led to a penalty, but I think the referee played the advantage and Neil slotted. Some Everton players wanted the referee to disallow the goal and give the penalty, so Latchford could take it and get his 30th league goal. The goal however stood, and Big Bob went on to score a penalty awarded later on for his 30th.
Mike Gaynes
51 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:36:39
Another moment of idiocy as a player five yards offside isn't flagged until the play is over, resulting in an unnecessary tackle at the end. FIFA has got to change this procedure before some top player gets injured on a play that should have been whistled down ten seconds earlier.
Jamie Crowley
52 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:37:44
Dude. This one is big. Hide behind the trees with your muskets boys, and pick 'em off as they march forward in rank. Freedom awaits. America, crush the old oppressors. 😂. There's only ONE game today that matters.
Jeff Armstrong
53 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:38:07
I remember Neil Robinson from the late '70s, he was a hard-working right-back who never quite nailed a regular place. The modern-day equivalent would be Jonjoe Kenny. Gordon Lee seemed to prefer Todd then Billy Wright at RB before signing Gidman.

I remember he went to Swansea and was part of a squad of deemed “past it” pros like Latchford, Leighton James, Alan Curtis who gatecrashed the top flight under Toshack.

Neil had a decent career after leaving Everton. RIP, Neil Robinson.

Rob Halligan
54 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:39:13
Jamie, sit down and shut up. We’re gonna murder ya! 😂😂😂😂
Jamie Crowley
55 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:41:00
HAHAHA! I'll take a draw?
Andrew Ellams
56 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:43:39
Liking the look of Plata from Ecuador
Mike Gaynes
57 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:45:03
Rob #50, thanks, you just reminded me who he was. Robinson amusingly tells that story himself in Brian Viner's book "Looking For The Toffees", in which he interviews players involved in that game, as well as the Derby win that same season.

In retrospect, he thought it was pretty funny that his only goal for Everton was not only booed by the fans but disputed by his own teammates.

Jamie Crowley
58 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:46:32
Honestly, we blew it against Wales. We should have won that game, and we'd be in the drivers seat to get out of the group, especially with the Iran win today over Wales.

A draw here would be brilliant. I'd not have to read England fans comments on TW, and we'd control our own destiny. Huge, huge game for us. Still, even with a loss, beat Iran, and hope England doesn't lay back and take a day off against Wales. Win and party like it's 1999.

We had 20+ people over for the Wales game, watching at my backyard bar. Brilliant day, shite result. Still, USA played very well against Wales IMO. Play like that and it'll be a damn good game.

Mike Gaynes
59 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:48:25
I came over, Jamie, but the place was booked solid so I got back in the car and drove home.
Peter Mills
60 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:48:32
Rob, I don’t recall that level of detail (I’ve had a few sleeps in the intervening 44 years) but I do remember Neil scoring into the Gwladys Street goal (I was behind it) in the 2nd half.

I also remember the crowd booing Mick Lyons for scoring from a cross that was just about to land on Bob’s head!

Dennis Stevens
61 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:53:58
England have never beaten USA in a competitive match - can they make history today? Probably not.
Rob Halligan
62 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:55:49
Peter, I don’t remember it either, in fact I don’t remember him scoring. I got that story from a website reporting his death, but don’t tell anyone!
Rob Halligan
63 Posted 25/11/2022 at 17:58:08
Well that’s the hosts Qatar out. Holland should beat Qatar, meaning it a Winner takes all between Senegal and Ecuador.
Mike Gaynes
64 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:00:04
Bit of justice... Qatar the first nation eliminated.
Barry Rathbone
65 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:06:39
I fancy the yanks tonight.

If they recreate the drive and energy of the Wales first half the English syndrome of retreating into their shell might see them through.

They ran out of gas in the second half so England might recover if their arses haven't completely dropped.

Can see a USA 3 England 1 result with Southgate bitten by a camel in the car park

Peter Neilson
66 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:15:22
I hope Qatar being knocked out doesn’t result in smaller crowds!
Danny O’Neill
67 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:23:04
We can't call them Yanks Barry. My Texan colleagues and friends as well as most of the southern states would be offended!!
Dennis Stevens
68 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:23:41
Are the Qataris particularly tall, Peter?
Kieran Kinsella
69 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:26:51

Correct the appropriate term is treasonous turncoats

Joe McMahon
70 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:27:22
Danny, I don't like the phrase either, seems offensive and language of the past.
Jamie Crowley
71 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:28:27
Danny -

Yanks is just fine coming from anyone outside of 'Merica! BUT! If you come South, don't call anyone a Yank or Yankee.

3 to 1 you get shot. Probably in the leg only just as a warning, but 3 to 1 a bullet flies. 😂

Kieran Kinsella
72 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:29:56
Glad to see Zimmerman playing and Reyna on the bench. I’m hoping it’s better than the bore fest in 2010. Gareth has resisted the temptation to retreat into defensive mode which is good. Our defense is leaky but we don’t want to sacrifice attack trying to plug holes at the back.
Peter Neilson
73 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:30:47
Dennis, nice one. But if anything they must be pretty short, as in can’t be seen on TV, if the attendance stats are to be believed.
Gerry Quinn
74 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:34:07
C'mon the US of frickin A
Mike Gaynes
75 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:34:26
Kieran, I just hope Reyna isn't left on the bench again.
Peter Mills
76 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:35:29
I can’t muster too much interest in supporting England, but it’s just been increased a notch or two by Mr Crowley!

Gaynes is keeping his head down so far.

Gerry Quinn
77 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:36:05
Jamie (58) - backyard bar - you obviously do not live in Qatar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kieran Kinsella
78 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:40:23

Yeah if he is I can’t endure watching Alexei Lalas going incandescent about it again. He seemed to freak out Dempsey with his rant on Monday

Mike Gaynes
79 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:40:48
Got to, Pete. This is a tough pub to watch the game in!
Jamie Crowley
80 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:41:13
Peter - Get in Red, White, and Blue! The Stars and Stripes version!

Gerry - I'd still build the backyard bar in Qatar. I'd be dead or in jail, but I'd build it.

Dave Abrahams
81 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:45:30
Didn’t Neil Robinson play in the third game versus Aston Villa in the league cup final at Old Trafford or am I getting him mixed up with another player?
Kieran Kinsella
82 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:49:23
I wonder if Mount will get the anthem lyrics right? Fans turned away for wearing crusader outfits. Lot of nonsense with turning away rainbow shirts but yeah I can see how crusader outfits could be offensive in the Middle East
Peter Mills
83 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:51:21
Dave, yes he did.
Mike Gaynes
84 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:52:52
I hear this England keeper is pretty decent. Not sure we can beat him more than once.
Dale Self
85 Posted 25/11/2022 at 18:56:09
yes Kieran, that 3-2 was the finest of my world cup experiences.

The colonial slurs almost have me interested but I'll keep calm until the bullets fly on the live forearm.

Mike Gaynes
86 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:00:43
Weird to see WalMart commercials.
Dale Self
87 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:03:37
To be followed by the latest Copper Fit product The menthol-morphine infused flak jacket!
[Insert Walmart smiley face here]
Tony McNulty
88 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:04:08
Could I ask our American friends: (a) what % of the US population is aware this game is going on?; and (b) what % of the population is interested?
Derek Thomas
89 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:05:35
Is there an Eng Vs USA live forum ?
Jamie Crowley
90 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:06:02
Tony -

85%, 20% will actually watch.

Interested? 50% or so I'd say

Mike Gaynes
91 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:07:44
Tony, everybody knows about it. Can't speak for the level of interest, but the TV ratings should be high, because it's a recognizable opponent and a holiday weekend. About 12 million Americans watched the Wales game.
Danny O’Neill
92 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:07:50
Well, I'm in a local amongst the London England fans. If they sing that Atomic Kitten or Harry Maguire song, I'll walk home on my own.
Tony McNulty
93 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:07:59
Thanks Jamie. As with any sport, the people get more interested as the team succeeds
Kieran Kinsella
94 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:10:15
10 minutes of Stones and Maguire passing back and forth
Tony McNulty
95 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:10:38
Mike - I guess someone in WalMart thinks they will get useful publicity at any rate
Mike Gaynes
96 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:10:41
Love this young kid Musah. Former England youth international. Will probably be the best USA player when he's old enough to shave.
Dale Self
97 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:12:57
I've heard of Atomic Rooster but not Atomic Kitten Danny!

Yeah, the Americans will get really interested if we win.

Mike Gaynes
98 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:13:39
Tony, I figured they'd pull their ads under the circumstances. It's just a bit bizarre.
Tony McNulty
99 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:15:00
They did get some pretty bad publicity the other day
Kieran Kinsella
100 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:22:07
Down a shot every time Stones passes back to Magiire
Mike Gaynes
101 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:23:33
Kieran, you'll be unconscious by halftime.
Jamie Crowley
102 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:26:13
OH Weston!!!! Dammit! Silver platter!
Mike Gaynes
103 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:29:42
This ref is Valenzuela from Venezuela. Too perfect.
Kieran Kinsella
104 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:30:28
England strategy seems to involve walking slowly and staying in their own half
Ray Roche
105 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:30:47
So, the Yanks are booing our fans rendition of the national anthem….hmmm.
Mike Gaynes
106 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:30:55
How the hell is that not a yellow??
Kieran Kinsella
107 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:32:38
Venezuelan Mike, maybe not a big US fan
Mike Gaynes
108 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:33:07
Jamie Crowley
109 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:33:36
Fucking heat seeking missile!!!! Fuckin hell man!
Kunal Desai
110 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:34:12
England are ponderous, nothing in the final third, like watching Everton this.
Kieran Kinsella
111 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:34:26
This is worse than watching Everton
Kieran Kinsella
112 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:36:41
May crack open this can of paint, put some on the wall and see what happens
Charles Brewer
113 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:40:32
Kieran, would you please provide live commentary on the paint, it’s got to be much more interesting than this shite.
Dave Cashen
114 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:41:37

Can't be sure it was the Yanks booing the anthem. There may be some Scousers in the crowd.

Jamie Crowley
115 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:43:10
Dare I say we're dominating rn
Charles Brewer
116 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:43:20
Let’s hope there’s a riot. Anything to liven this up.
Ray Roche
117 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:44:42
You’re right Dave, what was I thinking! 🤦🏼‍♂️
Kieran Kinsella
118 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:46:10

You are but the fact our whole team are lounging on deck chairs taking naps is a factor

Tony McNulty
119 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:47:20
On balance, USA ahead on points.
Jamie Crowley
120 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:47:43
Kieran -

Keep it that way.

Great half by the USA.

Mike Gaynes
121 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:47:45
Highly impressed with the US effort so far.
Kieran Kinsella
122 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:48:08
Thank God it’s over for now at least.
Peter Mills
123 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:51:25
USA working very hard, may tire. England have good attacking options.
Joe McMahon
124 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:51:35
Very sluggish, Foden and Grealish please Mr Southgate, and Wilson if Kane still strolling around.
Dave Cashen
125 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:52:29
The Spaniards and Brazilians are probably switching off and turning in for the night.

Nothing to concern them here.

Rob Halligan
126 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:55:04
Kieran # 94,

I thought that, thought the Chuckle Brothers were playing…

From me to you, to me to you etc.

Rob Halligan
127 Posted 25/11/2022 at 19:57:41
Trippier needs to be replaced at half time. He’s the weak link down our right. Replace him with Walker.
Dave Abrahams
128 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:04:08
Peter (83) Thanks for that Peter, I wasn’t sure.

Agree with with you,@ (123) USA looking good but could tire in the second half, but working as a team up to now and could have gone in leading.

Bill Gall
129 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:05:54
No changes Southall must be watching a different game…
Charles Brewer
130 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:06:09
It’s a cunning plot by Kenwright to make everyone think Everton are worth watching. He’s offered Southgate a part in his next musical as a dancing badger.
Tony McNulty
131 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:12:40
Conditioned reflex on TW: I nearly typed, 'come on blues'
Bill Gall
132 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:15:00
Now I know why Everton play around the back so much...

Lampard is trying for the England manager's job.

Mike Gaynes
133 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:15:52
Bill, you're in a cynical mood today.
Mike Gaynes
134 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:18:38
This is the best 60 minutes I have seen the USA play in years.
Dale Self
135 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:21:12
I want to credit Berhalter but I think this is down to the Americans' general football IQ and figuring out how to work with each other.
Kunal Desai
136 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:21:30
Get Mount off. He's shite! Fair play to USA, the movement from them is far more sharper.

Need a Maddison to come on an unlock this. Shame he's injured.

Tony McNulty
137 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:21:59
If we don't get some subs on soon, this will turn into a Black Friday
Charles Brewer
138 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:23:24
Wouldn’t it be good if England had some good young creative players say like Grealish or Foden.
Charles Brewer
139 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:23:56
89th minute subs coming up
Bill Gall
140 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:24:02
My, you are under the cosh and he gets Hendeson ready.
Mike Gaynes
141 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:24:34
Kunal, I've often wondered why Mount is preferred to Foden. The latter is the better player IMO.
Charles Brewer
142 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:25:13
Grealish just getting his shirt on. Did no one think to tell him to get ready?
Charles Brewer
143 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:26:06
Bellingham has proved a waste of space in this match.
Kunal Desai
144 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:26:13
How is Mount still on? He's lost nearly every ball. Agreed Mike. Foden should be ahead of Mount.
Kieran Kinsella
145 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:28:05
Mount more like little hill
Charles Brewer
146 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:28:54
Kieran, I think mentally hill more like it
Kieran Kinsella
147 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:30:05
Charles lol
Jamie Crowley
148 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:31:50
Why in the actual fuck is hyena and Aaronson NOT on the pitch you idiot Berhalter!!!! Wake the fuck up man!
Jamie Crowley
149 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:32:05
Tony McNulty
150 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:32:08
In my head, I thought England would win 2-0. Just shows the sort of stuff in my head.
Charles Brewer
151 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:32:10
Kieran, glad I could brighten your day. This dreadful match hasn’t done much for mine
Kieran Kinsella
152 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:32:26
No doubt he will bring on Dier for Kane. Tony Hibbert May get a run out too
Barry Rathbone
153 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:34:46
Americans looking tired now.

(I didn't say "yanks" for fear of being reprimanded for offending the south. But is it ok to say Robert E Lee was massively overrated and a traitor?)

Mike Gaynes
154 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:36:09
Time for the US to bring on Reyna for Weah.
Dale Self
155 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:36:43
Yes, and you may add that he was a loser Barry.
Kunal Desai
156 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:37:25
This is garbage. Sam Allardyce football. Make changes not to get beat.
Conservative Southgate.
Dennis Stevens
157 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:37:48
Great name for a paddle steamer though, Barry
Charles Brewer
158 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:37:55
Tony, you are an Evertonian. That means you a delusional, have weird thoughts unconnected to reality and live in some kind of fantasy world which never, ever plays out the way you would like.

Your 2-0 is therefore perfectly normal and you should not be concerned.

Joe McMahon
159 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:37:59
Seriously, what does Phil Foden have to do?
Jamie Crowley
160 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:38:10
Slabhead having the game of his life. fucker
Neil Tyrrell
161 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:39:06
Get Foden on you fucking coward Southgate. Most creative player in the squad but you bring on Henderson ffs?
Tony McNulty
162 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:40:26
Charles, Do you realise how much I would have to pay a shrink here in Northwood to get that analysis? Free of charge on TW
Kieran Kinsella
163 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:41:02

He'd rather bring on a donkey old enough to have been ridden by Jesus.

Mike Gaynes
164 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:41:15
Father's Day. George Weah clapping his son off. Claudio Reyna applauding his son on as his sub. That's cool.
Mike Gaynes
165 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:42:55
I'll admit I was aghast when Berhalter made Tim Ream the starter. But he's been outstanding.
Mark Ryan
166 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:42:58
Just like watching Everton and Lampard ffs get Foden on. Sideways, backwards, Sideways, backwards ffs
Nick Page
167 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:45:00
Worse than watching us this. Absolutely fucking diabolical. Kenwright out. Lol
Kieran Kinsella
168 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:46:00
I'll cheer myself up afterwards watching "Everton – the Walter Smith Years".
Charles Brewer
169 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:48:22
Best moment so far? Henderson getting kicked.
Mike Gaynes
170 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:49:57
Another Zimmerman blunder. High danger for the US on this set piece.
Michael Williams
171 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:50:32
Have Grealish's calves gotten even bigger?
Mike Gaynes
172 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:51:06
How did Harry miss that one???? Thank you footy gods.
Bill Gall
173 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:51:36
Kane just being played on his reputation has not done anything all game
Charles Brewer
174 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:51:47
Kane misses from 4 yards out, by about 10 metres
Nick Page
175 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:52:03
Gaynes - the US deserved to win that. By a mile
Kunal Desai
176 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:52:46
I'd take Matt Turner if Pickford moves on in the summer. Looks an accomplised keeper.

Whats the thoughts on him from our US folks?

Mike Gaynes
177 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:52:53
Idiocy by Pulisic. How do you not put that last one in the box?
Michael Williams
178 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:53:01
The U.S. still undefeated against England at the World Cup.
Charles Brewer
179 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:53:03
Thank god for that. What a shitty display
Jamie Crowley
180 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:53:10
OMG send it in the box FFS!

Good game by USA. Beat Iran, in. Just what we wanted.

Kieran Kinsella
181 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:53:35
USA were the better team. England were utter shite
Michael Lynch
182 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:53:43
USA very impressive. A good point for England in the end.
Mike Gaynes
183 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:55:11
Standing ovation for the USA. Best performance on the world stage since the 2002 win over Mexico. Well in, young men.
Nick Page
184 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:55:18
Revert to type. England play like Southgate looks. One fuck off boring southern c**t with a big nose. Awkward and shite. Get to fuck you horrible FA fraud c**ts. Embarrassing. Can’t believe my kids watched that. It’s horrifying stuff. And just like Everton it all comes from the top … because that is a team with a lot of talented players. That can’t play.
Mike Doyle
185 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:56:06
England grateful that the USA didn’t play their “Holy Trinity” (Landon Donovan, Brian McBride, Joe Max-Moore) - I guess they were injured- or they would have lost that one.
Jamie Crowley
186 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:57:30
Scary thing for US - a draw is a loss against Iran.

Iran will set up to defend like gladiators.

Bill Gall
187 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:57:34
Nick you have to score goals to win games not have the most possession
Pickford was not troubled except by his own players
Rob Halligan
188 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:58:18
Well that was a drab affair all round. Hardly any goalmouth action. I can only remember one worthwhile save all match, Turner from Mount just before half time.
Joe McMahon
189 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:58:40
I really wanted Sarina Wiegman as manager after the success for tge women. No Wilson or Foden is a disgrace. Kane was no better than Bale.

Mike Doyle
190 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:59:15
Iran v USA should be good viewing. Looking forward to that one.
Mike Gaynes
191 Posted 25/11/2022 at 20:59:36
Jamie, you feeling even a little bit better about Berhalter? This was a well-prepared side tonight.
Andrew Clare
192 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:01:11
A dire performance from England. USA deserved to win.
Jamie Crowley
193 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:01:17
Mike -

Earlier subs. Play Reina. Still not 100% happy but overall he's done well.


Kunal Desai
194 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:01:36
Southgate should have gone two up top.

Subs were wrong, should have been Foden and Wilson for Mount (who lost every ball) and Sterling.

Instead he brings on yard dog Henderson.

Nick Page
196 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:02:38
Gall - are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I can’t tell.
Southgate is such a reflection of the FA and establishment in this country….it just blows my mind. And we accept it. Everything has to change. That was PATHETIC
Kieran Kinsella
197 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:02:46
So goal difference settles placing. If England and USA both lose, England will most likely progress on goal difference. If US win and England lose then England will progress ahead of Wales unless Wales win by six goals in which case Wales progress on the head to head. So pretty much England are through
Pete Hughes
198 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:03:40
Southgate makes Allarydce look like world class manager,
Spineless negative bastard!
Darren Hind
199 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:04:42
Ninety minutes of my life I wont get back. I promised myself I wouldnt watch England again.

England are a fucking joke. Content to keep a hard working but very ordinary USA team at arms length and they only just about managed that.

Prideless fuckers. Tripover and Shaw were even wasting time strolling forward to take a corner and a free kick late in the game. I'd have loved the Yanks to score at the end.

I cant remember either goalie heaving a save to make ?

James Flynn
200 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:05:46
Not sure what Southgate was thinking, but thanks!

Rendon Crowley
201 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:05:55
Good game Englishmen! Well played by both sides. As much as I would like to say “it’s called soccer” I think both sides can agree: we can call it as we like. Go on, beat the Welsh, we’ll denuclearise Iran and both of us go through!
Mike Doyle
202 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:06:48
Hospitality News: Liverpool-based TW posters can join USA-based posters and cheer on the USA against Iran by enjoying a beer in Hooters which I understand opened in Liverpool city centre this week!
I’m sure Mike G and Jamie C would recommend this as a suitable venue!
Rob Halligan
203 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:07:03
Kieran, I think if wales beat England by only 4-0 that would put them above us, as Wales would be +2 compared to our zero. Won’t happen though. I think a 3-0 Welsh victory puts them above us on head to head.
Jamie Crowley
204 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:07:14
I have to say England looked pretty sapped. Very lethargic, Thank God.
Tony Hill
205 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:07:30
Nobody played well for England apart from Maguire.

Southgate & Holland. Should be selling cheap menswear in Uttoxeter.

Jamie Crowley
206 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:08:33
Mike -

Boobs and chicken wings, what's not to like?

Kieran Kinsella
207 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:08:59

Good catch. Maths was never my best subject lol

Rendon Crowley
208 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:09:12
Maguire had the game of his life, shut down our front line
Simon Dalzell
209 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:09:21
Southgate cost us the Euros with his negativity. Nothing has changed. He stifles the talent we have. No Foden is SHOCKING. Jordan F'in Henderson !!
Neil Tyrrell
210 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:10:49
Southgate playing it safe as usual, what a prick. Never mind the fans who traveled out there to hell's half acre. Good show by the US but really weak from England.
Rob Halligan
211 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:11:09
Kieran, there’s too many permutations, but I think the Welsh are fucked! 😁😁
Paul Birmingham
212 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:11:36
Poor game, and not enough desire, USA, worked hard, but no end product from either team.

Pretty much one of the worst games of the few I’ve seen, due to working but, England should qualify.

Does any one know the teams England could play in the next round if they qualify?


Steavey Buckley
213 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:11:40
England had players who found it easier to pass to the opposition than pass to their own players. The USA were much better in their passing and showed far more energy and willingness to get forward. England were pretty awful creating space for other players to run onto, instead, were more content passing the ball sideways and backwards even when not under pressure. England have proved they are lacking in the footballing skills, and will be find it more difficult to progress beyond the quarter-finals.
Rob Halligan
214 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:13:33
Paul, it’s either Holland, Ecuador or Senegal.
Mike Gaynes
215 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:13:58
Jamie, I wouldn't have subbed earlier because we were dominating. He had Aaronsen up to sub at 70 minutes but never got a break in the play until 77.

Who do you sit in favor of Reyna? Maybe Weah? Or go with no striker?

Kieran Kinsella
216 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:15:36

I’m not sure which of those three I’d fancy? Depends on Valencia’s injury.

Brian Williams
217 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:18:04
England looked like the Everton (at our worst) of international football.
Rob Halligan
218 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:18:18
Holland, Kieran, just so Pickford can take that gobshite St. Virgil out again.
Darren Hind
219 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:18:25
oh no Rob.

You know what ? I can see England beating any of them - in boring fashion of course. Then we can look forward to the tabloids going into overdrive calling Southgate's Zombies world Champions elect.

I didnt think I would say this a week ago, but I'm missing Everton already

Paul Hewitt
221 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:24:33
Anyone sat watching England, deserves to be bored.
John Keating
222 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:33:58
As daft as it sounds I think we could have had a nil nil against England tonight

I doubt we’d have scored, in fact I’m positive we wouldn’t gave scored but no shots on target and a nil nil, yes deffo

Peter Mills
223 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:37:53
England will be ok with that result, banking on a win against Wales (not guaranteed but likely) to go through.

Still don’t think they’ll go beyond last 8.

Not that I’m bothered very much.

Tony Abrahams
224 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:45:24
It wouldn’t have bothered me if America, had scored, because I’m not sure they have got enough to beat Iran, but hopefully I’m wrong.

England strolled, America worked very hard, but it’s tournament football, and the result definitely suited England more?

They will probably get slaughtered for playing within themselves, but I personally think England, have come a long way, and are definitely a much wiser, but extremely cautious football team now.

Rob Halligan
225 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:46:41
Head to head must take preference over goal difference to determine qualification.They are saying on ITV that if Wales win 1-0 against England, and USA and Iran draw, wales qualify. England, Wales and Iran would all have four points, USA three. That would mean England and Wales qualify. Wales would top the group because they beat England, with England second because we beat Iran. Confusing?
Neil Lawson
226 Posted 25/11/2022 at 21:50:48
Who is the script writer for Kane, Maguire and Southgate? It's pathetic that someone does dictate the party line that they all trot out. How about " we were shite tonight. Even Everton would have given us a game. The only positive is that we didn't lose "
I would love to see the stats of just how many backwards and sideways passes there were in their own half. Shocking. Again, we could have matched them on that. It was an abysmal performance and a dreadful watch.
Tony Abrahams
227 Posted 25/11/2022 at 22:00:03
Pickford was the only England player who really wanted to play forward, and it was noticeable how many times he refused to take a short goal kick tonight.
Will Mabon
228 Posted 25/11/2022 at 22:10:18
Tony, this is the dyed-in-the wool schooling Pickford has received by his long term membership of such an attack-focused club team.
Rob Halligan
229 Posted 25/11/2022 at 22:15:27
Tony, John Stones is the only one of the back four tonight, who has the confidence to play out from the back. I wouldn’t trust Maguire, Trippier or Shaw to play the way Stones does with city, and neither it seems, does Pickford. I don’t recall one short goal kick, ie. one in the six box, by Pickford all match.
Will Mabon
230 Posted 25/11/2022 at 22:17:56
Neil, you could almost have bet your house on a typical pile of England's dire shite at one stage or other. Every time there's been a good win it's as if someone dishes out a bollocking for ignoring the safety draw approach.

Although we've seen all this under previous managers, you just know Southgate is the instigator. He has negative written all over him. So glad I didn't watch.

Will Mabon
231 Posted 25/11/2022 at 22:20:58
Rob, I wonder what Southgate will have to say to him about it. Did he/they play that way against Iran?
Rob Halligan
232 Posted 25/11/2022 at 22:23:55
To be honest Will, I can’t remember. I do remember plenty of long goal kicks by Pickford, but there may have been one or two short ones as well.
Tom Bowers
233 Posted 25/11/2022 at 22:47:23
Hardly a surprise. This wasn't unexpected. Many teams just like the U.S. have come a long way and the gap in skills is very little these days.

Wales shot themselves in the foot with some awful defending against the Iranians and even an unlikely draw against England would see them out.

A lot of teams make a good showing in the early group games and that's why we have some surprises but I am sure the usual suspects will get to the later rounds.

Neil Lawson
234 Posted 25/11/2022 at 22:51:54
There is not a single player in the U.S. team who should ( on paper) get in the England team. So it is down to organisation, tactics, team selection, motivation etc. Southgate takes ultimate responsibility but the players ( the ones he chooses) share in the blame. Wales are bang average so beating them should be a given. Why do we all know differently ?
Jerome Shields
235 Posted 25/11/2022 at 22:56:02
Thought USA played well.Actually outplayed England at a similar type game.In the end Southgate was afraid of bringing on more attacking players,because he thought the USA would have opened up England with any relaxation of England's defence shape.The USA would have. It going to be similar progress for England like the Euros, with a Manager who fears getting beat .Even the Commentators where talking up not losing as a good result with 15 minutes to go..If Iran had not lost their goalkeeper and had have played with more aggression England would be in real trouble now.
Neil Lawson
236 Posted 25/11/2022 at 23:17:14
Very impressed with Antonee Robinson. Excellent and dynamic going forward and solid defensively. We sold him for peanuts at a time when we needed a left back because he wasn't judged to be good enough. Yet another great decision.
Don Alexander
237 Posted 25/11/2022 at 23:32:10
Watched this stupefyingly dull match (my first of this bent tournament) and again found myself pondering just why.

Last month I was on the edge of my seat more or less in every match of the cricket T20 World Cup given the range of physics defying athleticism on view throughout.

When I wasn't watching that I watched the Rugby League World Cup, where similar athleticism and nerve-tingling brilliance was 100% evident in every game.

And now this. Football matches where the ball is passed ad nauseam with no threat to the opposition, shots on goal usually numbering less than the fingers of one hand, and endless life-threatening injuries being feigned by millionaire talentless footballers.

Let's build a new river-side stadium to celebrate such performances eh?

Will Mabon
238 Posted 25/11/2022 at 23:49:13
Don - see you at Bramley-Moore, first game ;-)
Brendan McLaughlin
239 Posted 25/11/2022 at 23:58:14
Let's just build and believe. ffs!
John Kavanagh
240 Posted 25/11/2022 at 00:26:17
I must say that I found watching this match somewhat reassuring. Everton aren't the only side to indulge in metronomic passing to and fro along the back line followed by a pass back to the keeper!

Getting the most talented squad of midfielders and forwards England have probably ever had left completely isolated by a back four game of pass the parcel for 90 minutes needs a formidable talent to organise it, capped with the Southgate piece de resistance - the return of Henderson.

Blue Bill will be wetting himself with excitement at the prospect of having Southgate as his next manager (if the Ginger One doesn't get sacked by January).

Kieran Kinsella
241 Posted 26/11/2022 at 00:31:38
I think Iran will beat the US. They remind of Bulgaria in 94. Humiliated in the first match but they dug in and rode the back of a couple of quality attackers to reach the semi.
Steve Brown
242 Posted 26/11/2022 at 00:36:15
Football’s coming home.. to Brazil.

Loved Jamie’s suggestion of USA bringing on a hyena as sub. Now that would have livened up the game!

Kieran Kinsella
243 Posted 26/11/2022 at 00:36:53
Rob Halligan

I couldn’t find tie breaker rules on FIFA. I know recently they’ve done the head to head but ESPN, NBC, USA Today here all claim this time it’s on goal difference not head to head. Not saying they’re correct but I can’t find the official word

Dale Self
244 Posted 26/11/2022 at 00:38:03
Damnit, don't invoke Hristo! But I do agree the Yanks have some serious work to do. Fuckin' Stoichkov, won me my first football bet with that screamer past Campos the Mexico keeper.
Kieran Kinsella
245 Posted 26/11/2022 at 00:58:17

Hristo was awesome. Him and Romario together at Barcelona. What a pairing

Mike Gaynes
246 Posted 26/11/2022 at 03:06:47
Neil #238, I screamed bloody murder when we sold him. Having seen him for the US, I knew we had blown off a serious talent on the cheap. At 25 he's already the best left back in his country's history (not that it was a high bar to clear, but still).
Steve Brown
247 Posted 26/11/2022 at 05:30:03
That gameplan was far too cautious.

This is a talented squad but Southgate is not the right manager to maximise it.

Danny O’Neill
248 Posted 26/11/2022 at 07:07:45
I thought the USA played well and worked hard. England looked laboured and constrained. Playing with shackles on.

Agree with the comments about the back 4. Only Stones looks comfortable on the ball. Harry Maguire often looks afraid of it.

England has done enough. 4 points with Iran on 3, USA on 2, Wales on one.

Even a nightmare scenario of Wales beating them and Iran beating the USA would see them through in 2nd place. If the USA beat Iran, then England's goal difference would take them through on goal difference. And should Wales beat England they're going to need to do something special.

I think I've got most of the close to the mark, but it's tournament football.

On that note, how often have we seen teams get off to a racing start in the Group stages, to fade in the knockouts? Germany have been masters of keeping their powder dry and doing what needs to be done and then go through the gears as the tournament progresses.

Not that Germany will do much this time around. As I've said, early days, but Brazil, Spain and France have impressed me so far for different reasons. I still think England could be in the mix and they will qualify from this group.

It will soon be Boxing Day.

That's what I keep telling myself.

Sam Hoare
249 Posted 26/11/2022 at 07:20:04
In a way I think the USA played how I think Frank wants us to play. 433 with a strong, imposing midfield, dynamic full backs getting up and down all day and pace up front to use on the counter. Very tough to play through with lots of energy and athleticism and then they countered quickly and accurately. A well organized display from them.
Tony Hill
250 Posted 26/11/2022 at 08:05:44
Fear is the key. That’s true of England (Everton, of course) and much modern football. It’s appalling to watch, as Don says rightly @273. I’ve enjoyed a few games in this competition but it’s mainly dull.

Footy is dying on its arse.

Paul Birmingham
251 Posted 26/11/2022 at 08:18:47
Thanks Rob.
Danny O’Neill
252 Posted 26/11/2022 at 08:42:09
I forgot to mention. A bit of a repeat, but maybe some of our US family could comment.

I've followed Weston McKennie, but understand he's a squad player at Juventus and not a regular? I mean, everyone is a squad player these days, but could he be tempted to the Premier League? And by that, I obviously mean Everton!!

Tony Abrahams
253 Posted 26/11/2022 at 09:10:17
Is it fear Tony H, or is it all about possession being nine-tenth’s of the law?

I think the gap has closed so much and football has become a much more competitive game. Everyone is extremely physical, and everyone works very hard, with the saddest thing being, that “off-the-cuff” isn’t in any coaching manual’s, and seems to be really discouraged?

It’s not even as if teams are over-defensive imo, it’s just that not many teams are very committed to attacking anymore, and everyone seems to mostly play the same way?

It’s early days, but I honestly enjoyed the rugby, more than I’m enjoying the football, but this will hopefully change when we get into the knockout phase of the competition, and hopefully we can see teams like Spain v Brazil, playing against each other🤞

Rob Halligan
254 Posted 26/11/2022 at 09:31:58
Kieran # 243. I haven’t got a scooby do now. SSN said late last night that Wales need to beat England by at least 4-0 to stand any chance of qualifying. So maybe qualification from the groups is determined on goal difference, followed by head to head then finally goals scored? But in all honesty, who gives a toss!…………………………………..

Ah, maybe that’s it, a toss of a coin!

Mike Morgan
255 Posted 26/11/2022 at 09:33:40
I believe Frank wants us to play like US. But unfortunately at the moment we are playing like England v the US. Everton have no goal threat Possesion is passing the ball between the back 4 and defensive midfield with no idea how to break down the opposition in the dangerous part of the pitch. Pickford must have been confused yesterday was he playing for Everton or England. The only way Evertons problems will be resolved is to find a goal scoring CF and to play 4, 2, 3, 1.
Danny O’Neill
256 Posted 26/11/2022 at 09:37:02
Spain v Brazil would be a dream final, but I think the French are strong. All 3 of those teams are talented, but in different ways.

But tournaments often throw up shocks and someone will no doubt come from left of arc to surprise everyone. I think of Croatia a few years back who went close.

I personally don't like the Group format. It's like the Champions League. Teams are mostly cautious and try not to lose rather than go out to win.

Once it gets to the knockout phase, there is no option. The game has to be settled on the day, so go to win it. It changes the psyche. Or it should do.

Dave Abrahams
257 Posted 26/11/2022 at 09:47:31
Danny (252),Danny that’s the first time I’ve seen Weston McKennie and on that one game I’d ask why would we want him, I was praying inwardly for the USA to get a goal and win that game, but McKennie looked slow in thought and movement, to me, and I was happy when he went off.

The game was always interesting because of the score line but as many have said the football was really boring and it is in many of the games I’ve watched,mostly fleetingly, that game was the first I’ve watched completely.

I love watching football, anywhere, any time, but the football I watch today is nowhere as exciting as it can be and was meant to be, a lot of sports are still the same as they’ve always been, lively, open and lovely to watch, what’s wrong with football? Lousy and negative coaches has got to be one of the reasons, come on get football back on it’s feet and start making the goalkeepers earn their money, they could take an armchair onto the pitch with them now, they have so little to do.

Kim Vivian
258 Posted 26/11/2022 at 09:55:47
I predicted on another site 0-0, and said that with Maguire playing the U.S. might possibly nick it for a 1-0 win. On the day Maguire had the best game I have seen him play for some time. England, as I said earlier on this thread, epitomise Everton with the ponderous football but at least we can mitigate ourselves as being a "work in progress" to use the popular vernacular.

To Danny - My thoughts during the game was that McKennie was frustrating, particularly with his shots 3 or 4 metres over the bar. He could have won it for the States. Not a player I rated on the night.

The lad Dest looked extremely useful I thought, along with a fleet footed Robinson (!). I was very surprised to see him (Dest) subbed off although it did look like he might have been cramping up a bit. He had covered over 8k/5miles when he was subbed.

I am English (although a dna test recently showed I was 35% Scandinavian) so I feel a bit of a traitor saying this, but I am not a fan of England at all these days and I found myself actually wanting the US to nick the win as they were the ones who looked like they wanted to play.

There is a total lack of charisma from to to bottom and no characters I can warm to in that team (except perhaps Picks until he gets his big move). One thing this squad would never win is a personality contest.

Anyway, let's see how I feel when the knockout rounds start given that we are as good as there already.

Danny O’Neill
259 Posted 26/11/2022 at 09:58:51
Too many teams are scared to lose Dave rather than want to win. It makes it a dull spectacle, like last night. Taking the fun and enjoyment out of football.

Watching McKennie over time, I think Evertonians would like him.

He might not have shown it in last night's turgid affair, but he's mostly energetic and hard working. He's also very versatile and can play in a number of positions.

Some would say that versatility is a plus. Others would argue it is their downfall in not being able to nail down a position as their own. Alan Harper and Phil Neville spring to mind, but both were great assets to the Everton teams they represented.

I think McKennie could be, but not sure he'd be available.

Andrew Clare
261 Posted 26/11/2022 at 10:14:07
Since the 'playmaker' has disappeared from the game and hard running and physique has taken over, football has become less entertaining.
In England's case centre backs who slow the game down and pass sideways nullify any excitement - probably because of the lack of a playmaker- someone who can pick out a pass and open the opposing teams defence.
England teams always lacked the flair player even though we have had them, they have never made the squad.
The USA deserved to win. England will not win the World Cup.
Colin Glassar
262 Posted 26/11/2022 at 10:51:04
Agreed, Andrew. Thanks to the likes of Mourinho, Guardiola and Klopp etc… football has become more robotic with each passing year. Everyone has a role, and zone, to play in and woe-be-tide them if they lose their ‘tactical discipline and shape'.

Long gone are the likes of Mckenzie, Gazza, Hoddle, Ronaldinho etc… who were given free licence to roam the pitch and go on mazy runs, exciting friend and foe alike. Now everyone uses the same tactics, formations, and cuntish (imported) expressions like “actions” and “park the bus”.

Fuck off. Football is a simple, beautiful game but it's being ruined and turned into chess-like game played by androids!

The modern player is a superb physical specimen but who is unable to think for themselves if it's not showed on some poncey iPad.

Brian Harrison
263 Posted 26/11/2022 at 10:52:36
Seemed for some reason England played with far too much caution, maybe Southgate was drumming into them not to be careless, which led to our overly negative approach.

Puzzles me how Foden doesn't start every game, he's by far England's best midfield player by a very big margin, he scores he creates and doesn't shirk his defensive duties.

I thought our front 6 were individually and collectively ineffective. When you start slow with our central defenders making more passes to each other, then it's difficult to change that tempo, so we played far too slowly and gave USA time to get back into formation.

As Wales proved, this US team are very average and showed in the 2nd half how to dominate a very average team, but Southgate seemed reluctant to ever want to go all out for the win.

I thought Maguire was England's best player and to come back from all the criticism he has had over the last 6 months is very creditable.

For the life of me how Trippier gets in this side really astounds me, when he has Walker and Arnold on the bench. Yes sometimes people question the defensive qualities of Arnold but this game was tailor-made for his abilities.

I think the winners will come from Brazil, France or Spain. I can't see any other team who can match the quality of these 3 teams.

Mike Keating
264 Posted 26/11/2022 at 11:01:49
Kim @ 258

Are you local?

If so, no surprise that you have high traces of Scandinavian DNA.

According to a Tranmere Rovers fan of my acquaintance, West Lancs and the Wirral are ‘hotspots' for Viking DNA.

In his spare time Stephen Harding is Professor of Applied Biochemistry at the University of Nottingham, so he probably knows what he's talking about!

We tend to think of Vikings invading from the east but they had a huge presence on the Irish coast around Dublin.

Pity the Vikings weren't Brazilian - we might have produced some tricky local talent.

Danny O’Neill
265 Posted 26/11/2022 at 11:14:25
Andrew, you sound like me about 15 years ago as I slowly started losing my passion for youth coaching.

I got worn down by the dreadful facilities and pitches. The obsession with big, powerful and fast over technical ability. Not that the technical ability could do much on daisy covered pitches in the spring and mud quagmires in the winter.

Hard running and hard work has always been a factor to making a good footballer and football team. But so has ability, fitness, attitude, desire and a will to win a game rather than try to not lose one.

Mike Keating
266 Posted 26/11/2022 at 11:23:53
Danny, if you haven’t read it, may I recommend Those Feet by David Winner
Kim Vivian
267 Posted 26/11/2022 at 11:39:32
Mike - 264. I'm not actually. It's a bit of a mystery, to be honest.

I lived on the Wirral hence my allegiance to the Blues, I was born in Newcastle which is not really relevant, my Mum was a farming girl from Rutland and my old man has southern ancestry, so I'm not sure where it comes from, my name has Roman origins.

It seems that a fair few of my distant ancestors hailed from the US but I have been unable to find any Scandinavian connection. It's quite interesting actually but all becomes incredibly convoluted.

You'd have thought over the generations that the Scandinavian would have been diluted down or diminished but it is what it is. There's a bit of Welsh, Scottish and Irish in there, and some 17% Eastern European!

Apologies for deviating away from the World Cup.

Tony Everan
268 Posted 26/11/2022 at 11:56:14
The game is not going to go backwards, there’s no choice but to keep up with the Joneses. If you’ve got better players who don’t match intensity and are momentarily ill-disciplined, matches will be drawn or lost against the increasingly ubiquitous drilled teams. It does make you weep for the freer football age but that’s almost like the silent movies now.

Predominance is now disciplined physicality that delivers relentless intensity, pace and total forward thinking on the attack and clinical finishing.

If you’ve not got the players who can deliver this, other teams will have and you’ll suffer. Even the best creative players in the world, like Kevin De Brunye, sometimes gets snuffed out by the modern physical intensity but often he mucks in with the dirty work too. This shows how high the bar has to be to get creativity into the side without giving away too much.

What I’m driving at is that, to be a mid-table team in the 22-23 Premier League you have to have that physical ability and intensity, always for 90 minutes, working in tandem with the given footballing ability. It’s become the new normal to be a mid-table team.

I think over the transition period and even currently, to this modern incarnation of football, Everton have always been playing catch-up and most acutely from a midfield perspective.

Danny O’Neill
269 Posted 26/11/2022 at 11:57:06
Thank you Mike, I'll take a look at that.

Kim, we're all mixed breed. As I've said before, second generation Liverpool Irish on one side, Northern Irish and Scottish on the other, but born in England. Spent part of my childhood in Germany and have since lived in Germany again, Cyprus and Italy.

My wife is from the West Midlands but her mother's side has Basque origins.

Like I say, just like the States, the UK has always been a country based on migration and immigration. It's why it confuses me when people get concerned about it. Especially the city of Liverpool. Oldest black community and oldest Chinese community in the UK.

And as for the Irish, well just look at most of our names and culture!!

Dave Abrahams
270 Posted 26/11/2022 at 12:06:35
Danny (259), I’ll take your word on Weston McKennie, I was just going on one game which isn’t fair to any player, I think Mike Gaynes, who knows his stuff, also thought that McKennie was a good player.

Going back to coaches and managers I agree with you completely, especially going on size, power and speed and practically ignoring technical ability, very good players getting passed over and less gifted players being selected.

That takes me back to when Tony represented Liverpool Boys, he had a good partner in midfield, for two years at U13 and U14 level, Colin Murphy, who I thought was every bit as goos as Tony, when they got to the U15’s a new manager took over and although Colin was in the squad he rarely got a game, in the end his dad handed the shirt back to the coach and him very politely that he was withdrawing Colin from the squad, I was disappointed as was Tony but I understood his dad doing what he did,because a lot of the parents on the sideline thought that Colin wasn’t being treated in a fair way. I think it goes back to : If you’re good enough you’re big enough, or it should do.

Terry Farrell
271 Posted 26/11/2022 at 14:07:04
McKennie is a brilliant player but we couldn't tempt him from Schalke and now that ship has sailed same story for Mudryk. I've loved Robinson since I saw him in a mini Derby at goodison when he was the best player on the pitch about 5 years ago. Letting him go didn't make any sense to me. Saw him at Fulham a few weeks ago and again best player on the pitch. He nullified Saka and that's not easy. Fast and plays the whole 90 at the same pace because he is so fit.
Terry Farrell
272 Posted 26/11/2022 at 14:09:18
Also Winks who I didn't want in a month of Sundays as he is a sicknote and too slow is being sent back from Sampadoria having not played 1 game!
Eddie Dunn
273 Posted 26/11/2022 at 14:18:34
Mike @264, Merseyside has lots of Viking history. Indeed many of the place names are Norse. Kirby, Frankby, West Kirby, Thingwall, Heswall, Aintree, Pensby,Tranmere, Greasby, Toxteth and even Skelmersdale.
Danny O’Neill
274 Posted 26/11/2022 at 14:38:38
Dave @270, that story typifies what used to frustrate me. Talented players getting overlooked at, for example, 14 years old, because they were considered too small and lightweight. Instead, someone who had grown physically more quickly would be preferred to win a meaningless trophy in the local league.

Too much focus on results vice development.

Fast forward several years and the then small and lightweight player is a physical equal, but has long lost his interest in football. As apposed to the player who was bigger and quicker, but not really as good in terms of ability.

We're getting better, but its long been a problem within the English game at grass roots in my opinion. We still rely on crossing our fingers and hoping a collection of players come through at the same time. It's by chance rather than by having a system or a plan in place.

I know we haven't met, but you know I could talk all day about this!!

I messaged Tony earlier, hopefully we can rectify that at the next match and finally meet up in person.

Mike Doyle
275 Posted 26/11/2022 at 14:42:48
Danny 269] Good point. Not sure what the background of Old Swan residents is these days, but when I grew up there (1960s / 70s) it was very Irish. Virtually every kid at St Oswalds had an Irish name.
Dave Abrahams
276 Posted 26/11/2022 at 14:51:36
Danny (274), I thought, going back a bit, that young players were very lucky if the people in charge of teams knew and loved the game and winning wasn’t essential to them, although it was a nice bonus.

Tony was lucky with his local team, they had a man who was fair and treated every player the same, not so sure about when he played higher up even when he got to Forest, I think at a lot of professional clubs it’s a case of who you know more than what you know.

Tony was playing in a benefit game early this afternoon for a great Evertonian fan who died suddenly and tragically a few months ago so he might not have got your message yet, it will be nice to finally meet you when it happens.

Colin Glassar
277 Posted 26/11/2022 at 15:57:11
Eddie 273, aren’t those Anglo-Saxon names? Kirk-by sounds more Germanic to me.
Kieran Kinsella
278 Posted 26/11/2022 at 16:05:59

Kirkby Middle English for town with a church derived from Old Norse Kirkja

Colin Glassar
279 Posted 26/11/2022 at 16:25:34
Duly noted, Kieran. Cheers
Mike Gaynes
280 Posted 26/11/2022 at 16:29:55
Danny and Dave, McKennie is an excellent player, the heart and engine of the US both physically and emotionally. He's a starter most of the time at Juventus, although he missed a bunch of games last spring because he broke his foot. Dave, he is a bit slow right now because of a leg injury, and he's not fully game fit.

He's a cocky, colorful guy -- wiping his hands on the photog's vest before the throw-in yesterday was classic McKennie -- and a fierce, relentless competitor. Everton were very much in for him at Schalke, but once his childhood hero Pirlo rang him up from Juve, it was all over. Pirlo was tough on him and made him more professional in training. He's a fine finisher with his head, but as you saw, not so much with his feet. Good passer, though.

Dave Abrahams
281 Posted 26/11/2022 at 16:55:20
Mike (280),

Fair enough, I knew you thought McKennie was a good player from previous posts.

I wish he would have slotted that decent chance last night, it could have finished up being the winner and what an interesting finale would have been in store next week with the last two games of the mini-league.

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