Everton have no immediate plans to can Lampard

The Club is a limited company and only its shareholders have any say in its governance. Given that the biggest holding by far is that of Moshiri (or his nominees), only his decision about Everton's immediate future has any bearing.

In reality, I bet – sanctions or not – that he still answers to his former Russian partner and ultimately any decision 'to hold or fold' will really be made far away from Liverpool 4. So why waste your energy on useless protests?

Then pay whatever they are entitled to month by month until they are paid up – in fact miss a month now and again keep them waiting like we've been kept waiting for wins every month.

Well said I've always thought "sack the board" must be the most facile chant ever.

I have been calling for Moshiri to fire Bill Kenwright for a couple of months, him being the outright owner of Everton FC as the majority shareholder with over 94% of shares.

This continual "Fire Kenwright", "Sack the Board" is okay for the supporters to vent their feelings but I doubt if Moshiri reads ToffeeWeb.

There must be some way that this new group of representatives of the supporters can get a meeting with Moshiri to outline the feelings of the supporters and not just have them complain to the Board who they want replaced.

He has become delusional in his post-game remarks, how can he say, but for player mistakes, we were in the game against Brighton? His record is worse than Benitez's and our football is worse and yet we blame everything except for the person who sets out training, tactics, recruitment, team formation and playing style.

He has brought in 6-8 players for not far below 䀆M and we are worse than before and now have more players we won't be able to move on due to their wages and yet we still want to keep Frank! We deserve everything that comes our way.

Seriously? They mustn't have been watching all season.

It's obvious why the board can't see the obvious, it's because they haven't got a bleedin' clue about football and the only one who has got a clue, Graeme Sharp, only sees what the Chairman sees or says what the Chairman tells him to say.

He is just a well-paid puppet, as is Mrs Barrett-Baxendale, and Ingles is there because she brought him into the cosy little clique.

Sack Frank
Sack The Board
Both
Neither

Thanks

Groundhog Day?

Were they not watching the team that played Fulham, Leicester, Bournemouth B team and Bournemouth A? We were second-best by some distance. Miles off the pace of being anywhere near competitive against these so-called smaller clubs.

The forthcoming games! Wolves and Brighton at home were the forthcoming games. The crucial ones Frank had 7 weeks to prepare for.

It is incredible that they are kicking the can down the road whilst the club is in one of its worst positions in 72 years.

The board are completely and utterly clueless in all things football.

Bill's put together a consortium of Philip Greene, Tesco's, Bill Gates and Uncle Cyril to buy out Farhad. He's currently serving Betty's hotpot to the huddled masses before anointing himself Emporer Eternal of Everton FC.

Nero fiddling while Rome burns!

I'm getting to the point now where I think going down will actually help us. The stadium cannot be used for anything else and the red shite have their own with plenty of investment. M&S arena means no point converting to concerts. Moshiri will have to cut loses and walk, hopefully leaving investor to come in and cover debts only.

It cannot get more miserable than this lot now. Standing watching the formally bankrupt Everton start back from the bottom, like Rangers did, will have more hope in 10 years than Bill has given us in 30. He has destroyed this club already.

My head is banging now so I'm going to bed to dream about throwing our Chairman in the Mersey.

I'm not getting his free pass here, or is it just because he talks a good game and is likeable? When he's back home in his luxury London lifestyle in a few weeks, we'll be a joke footnote to him.

What do you mean "8 just resigned"?

Problem is, the next manager inherits the same squad and faces exactly the same squad dilemma. Unless we buy in this window we will go down.

On the one hand, plenty of time for things to change. On the other, form and confidence are rock bottom. Waiting until after the Southampton game (and possibly the West Ham game) seems a huge risk.

Mind you, I'm not thrilled by any of the likely replacements, and of course we all know our problems run deeper than the manager. All-in-all, I don't even know what to wish for anymore.

I left Goodison feeling empty rather than angry last night. Hard to believe there is a positive outcome on the cards... I will just have to hope for a miracle.

As if the Wolves game wasn't hard to digest, we get served up with that trash yesterday. I would have hoped at least the defense may have performed half-decent but maybe they are fed up with the guys ahead of them on the pitch. Lampard cannot do anything with this bunch and he has to take some blame.

A year ago, I was screaming for Everton to send quite a few packing, and they did, but the replacements have been unsatisfactory most of the time.

The obvious faux pas was the selling of Richarlison – that has never been addressed properly – and here we are a year later struggling to show anything up front.

The midfield is slow by comparison to other clubs and they are also woeful at keeping good possession. Lampard has never really changed his approach to the game. He has Everton playing open football — Wide Open!!! — and with this squad, it has been near suicidal.

We need to concentrate on a defensive setup, even if it is boring, but a desperate situation calls for desperate measures. We just don't have the attacking players to try and play this system. Gray is the only really quick player we have at the moment but is wasted as a front man with Calvert-Lewin.

Sadly, Lampard is likely to be released after the next couple of games, if not sooner, and he will probably do well down the line with a club that will spend some money and he has more experience under his belt.

Hard to see who Everton will get that can turn things around unless of course new blood is introduced on the field.

Lampard will know he's on borrowed time. Everton won't have clue and will probably only be drawing up their list now. Let's see. Moyes? Martinez? Allardyce?

Basically they only react when it's absolutely necessary.

The crunch question: Is he getting the best out of what he's been given? Nowhere near!! He has lost the players, judging by the way they were strolling on Tuesday.

We all know he should have gone before the World Cup. It was highlighted perfectly by many posters – 6 weeks to figure out how to beat the mighty Wolverhampton Wanderers and Brighton. Nothing changed.

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. That's Frank Lampard's Everton for you.

He hasn't got a clue, he can't manage multi-millionaire unmotivated men, he's out of his depth as a manager.

He talks a good game, like lots of us do, but he can't manage this limited squad of players to make us competitive. A good manager makes the most of what's available to him, Lampard can't do that.

Rafa was the wrong fit and the players knew we the fans didn't want him and so downed tools. Ancelotti ran when the cash ran out – but would have improved us had he stayed 100% – but he fucked off when he realised his gravy train had run dry.

We need to let Frank go and say 'Thanks but you are not up to it." We need to get a young proven manager and this slide can be stopped. Get Tuchel or Pochettino. Either would get us back on track.

But we have to sack off this idea that Frank has reiterated time and time again that Calvert-Lewin is so important to this team. He's not, he's bang average. Get a striker in and get Tuchel or get Pochettino... or we are fucked.

The immediate priority is for Moshiri to cut his losses, sell the club, and rid us of the egoistical charlatan who has ruined our club over the last 22 years.

Worst manager, ever.

But I don't know if it is him or the players. I'm thinking it is at least 80% the players. At least. But he should be getting more out of these guys.

Sadly, I think it is time for a new manager reboot. Someone, I have no idea who, who can bring two good players with them and re-energise the changing room. Jees… I don't know.

And yes, the root cause is an inept board. They pissed half a billion pounds up the wall. No easy task.

Obvious how this ends.

I don't see it happening.

Lost. 1-0
Lost. 0-6
Lost. 3-2
Won. 1-2
Drew. 0-0
Drew. 0-0
Lost. 3-0
Lost. 2-3
Lost. 1-0
Lost. 2-5

Take notice, Moshiri.

See you in the Championship.

Once the cup game is out of the way, this is the way I see it:

There are plans to bring forward the protest of remaining in the seats after the Southampton game next week, against the board.

Bill will be aware of this and will counteract it by getting rid of Frank and bringing Rooney in, to try and deflect the flak at the next home game, and try and get the few still on his side something to keep them sweet.

Anyone who knows me will know how I fought hard last season with my Enough is Enough piece I put on here, to try and unite some posters with others I knew on Facebook and other sites.

I did not have knowledge of how to go about it, but I refused to remain silent any longer on how this board has left us stagnated. We left the protest until the transfer window closed last January, a full year ago, yet we are no further forward… in fact, we are worse than last season.

The 4 goals last night were sickening, the performance sickening, but the one that left me completely numb last night was fans around me cheering on Everton, singing away. Yet when "Sack the board" rang out from all four corners of the ground, there were a good three to four near me refusing to join in the singing.

I found myself uncomfortable singing it, not because I was against it, but fellow Blues I sit next to every home game seem to be on Bill's side. I felt physically sick that those I talk to every week are still in the "Not Bill's Fault" camp.

Now with the story of Alan Stubbs coming to light, being refused tickets for speaking his mind, makes you wonder if that's the same reason we no longer see Nev, Ratters, Gray and the likes at Everton anymore. Yes, I know Nev now does not have the time with other projects he had, but it was the same years ago with Nev.

Not surprisingly, my Enough is Enough piece was met by just a few who still thought Bill was not the problem, That was their choice and even now still their choice.

How much longer can we sit there and do nothing about this current board?

Enough is enough.

All that you say is reasonable and plausible but, for fuck's sake, does Kenwright honestly think Rooney, whose track record as a coach makes Lampard look like Guardiola, would a) work or b) placate the fans?

As for Lampard, I hate to admit I read a piece in The Sun just now titled Lampard to Blame. It was a misleading headline designed to provoke, which is why I bit. But the actual article was sadly IMHO spot on.

Frank is not to blame for our shambles squad and situation. But he is to blame for being stupid enough to take the job. How sad is that, that I find myself agreeing with such an assessment as an Everton fan?

People compare Kenwright with Ellis or Swales but better comparisons are Ceausescu, Hoxha, Honecker, etc – evil egotistical scum.

Like I have said before, Bill will do absolutely everything that benefits himself; it does not matter one bit what is best for Everton – all he is bothered about is himself and keeping hold of his train set.

Last season, we waited and dragged on the next manager for weeks, before finally naming Frank on Transfer Window Deadline Day, leaving him very little time to bring players in.

This season will be different; with all the protests ringing round, you can guarantee we will have someone in place for the Southampton game. Bill knows what is coming for that game and you can as much as say with near certainty that he will act at the weekend. Like I say, do not be too surprised if he brings Rooney back.

Even when the Fans Forum came in, I said back then, no Evertonian with an ounce of saying it how it is will be selected, and only yes-men will get on the Fans Advisory Board. When you have the likes of Danny, Rob, Dave, Tony and a few others who we all said would do a decent job on the Fans Advisory Board, there was not a chance any of them getting on it – another PR stunt by Bill.

Anyone who thinks otherwise only needs to look at the fan at the Liver Building interviewed away from the protest at Goodison the same evening, singing Bill's praises.

Fans Advisory Board, my arse.

So why is it still wrong to keep Lampard?

I see it like any transfer. You wouldn't just sell Calvert-Lewin due to poor form if you had no replacement. But if you had a better option, then you'd absolutely do it.

The better replacement for Lampard isn't particularly obvious to me. It's certainly not in the list of most of the names being mentioned.

If Bill, Denise, Kevin and Farhad are able to pull a rabbit out of a hat, then fair enough, let's do it. But don't do it for the sake of doing it.

We have had top-class managers walk away, been sacked, left hanging out to dry. The atrocious management of meddling has seen a hated Benitez appointed and sacked, we have seen this chairman appoint people around him to protect his credibility – not the best for the job, but the best for Bill Kenwright.

Lampard is the latest in the line of managers who are paying the price of what went before them. It does not matter a jot if we appointed another world-class manager in his place, time is not on a manager's side but, unlike Ancelotti, Lampard doesn't have the technical nous or experience to change it.

If you really believe Ancelotti walked away because Real Madrid called him… here's a few home truths: he called them. I would call it an engineered discussion.

Unlike the arrogant Keoman (worst of the lot), and the disgraceful Benitez, Ancelotti cut and run. Lampard should do the same. He won't, because he is a proud man; he wants to make it work. I admire him for that.

I also think that's why politically Kenwright doesn't want to be seen as the hatchet man. This time, the board itself is no longer immune, no longer can they blame the manager or expect them to fall on their sword.

Moshiri has a dilemma but he can no longer sell while the club sit in the Bottom 3; he either cuts adrift Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale and backs Lampard, or hopes another manager will get him over the line.

But here's the rub. What manager, or player, who can do the business, would want to come to us?

Interestingly, Phil McNulty tweeted last night pointing a finger at Bill. Various people replied “You'll be barred from Goodison” to which he replied “I'll live” but despite egging on from fans not a word from the rest of the old Echo crew O'Keeffe, King etc.

But the BBC, Sky, The Mail (not King) and The Sun all ran articles today pointing the finger at the board as opposed to just Frank. Maybe, just maybe? The worm is starting to turn?

I'll add that I believe Lampard will say what he needs to say (internally to the club). He wasn't popular at Chelsea for that reason.

People talk about his affinity with the fans like it's a bad thing. I want a man who will speak up. Whether that's Lampard I can't be 100% sure. But it's certainly no-one else at the club. And it won't be anyone who interviews for this job either.

I'd love to hear him putting pressure on the board to back him in the market. That would convince me he's the right man in this moment.

The following is a conversation I was privy too just before the collapse of the Kings Dock fiasco. I used to do personal security for somebody who was very wealthy but no longer with us.

Sitting in his house one day, chatting with him, his phone rang. His PA came in and said Bill Kenwright was on the phone, he said to put him through. He left his phone on speaker and put his finger to his lips, basically asking me to hush down.

The call was Bill Kenwright asking if Dave (let's call him Dave for now) would like to invest in Everton? Bill was looking for the 㿊 million or so to put into the build.

Dave said "Bill, I'm a Red and Everton have just got rid of Peter Johnson. How will Evertonians feel about another red on the board?"

Bill's reply was "It's irrelevant, if we get this ground built we can name our own price for the club and sell on."

At this point, I was purple with anger and gagging to scream down the line…

Anyway, that's True Blue Bill's real feelings towards Everton. Make of that what you will.

It doesn't surprise me. Once a red, always a red.

I've posted on here before too that I know a very well-known actor (BBC lead man) who hates Kenwright because of his skinflint wheeling and dealing as a producer screwing over actors.

The Red Shite Kenwright only cares about himself and his wallet.

You have just confirmed what I have suspected for a long, long time, I am not a Scouser born and bred but have lived in and around Liverpool for 53 years, and supported Everton from the age of 9. I know many Evertonians who I have met over the years, by going to the match etc.

We have had many a discussion about Kenwright, and when he used to relate those stories about The Boy's Pen. None of those who I know or have met who were about the same age, and regular visitors to the aforementioned Boy's Pen – not one, can or could ever remember a young Bill Kenwright being amongst them.

Probably because he was at Anfield. Furthermore, he never came from a poor background either as he often tries to make out. I had a girlfriend some time ago who used to visit Kenwright's mother regularly, and they lived in a massive house in Mossley Hill/Allerton.

Dyche eh? If it isn't spherical and it's on the pitch, kick it.

Now, don't go off immediately but how about Sam Allardyce??
Narh. Only kidding. I'd rather hand-saw off both feet.

You've got to laugh. Or not.

I've held that chat for a long time.

Absolute gobshite is our Bill.

I live in hope though, as he could, I believe, get us back to where we belong. He has the experience and is a good manager and tactician.

I always liked him; he would have to be off his head to walk into the hot seat though.

Watch them come out and almost get a result against Man Utd, just to confuse the situation.

Benitez:- '' Shit manager, red gobshite, get out of our club.''
Lampard:- '' He gets us, it's not his fault he inherited it, we must give him time.''

Madness in my opinion. Lampard should already be gone and, the longer we keep hold of him, the further we sink.

And I say that without any commentary on Kenwright himself.

I'm working in the Middle East, so I get to read all sorts of opinion from those outside the Everton bubble. Neutral commentators (ie, no connection to Liverpool FC) describe the club as "dysfunctional".

And I think that's the rub. We have an owner who, by his own admission, delegates the operation of the club to others, and it seems rudderless. Whoever is in the hot seat is set up to fail.

By all means sack Frank, but that also means getting rid of his extensive backroom team he brought in, and that's going to cost.

And then who's the next one to come in? No-one of the calibre of Pochettino would consider it. The last "decent" manager we had pissed off sharpish as soon as a big club came calling.

On the drive home last night, Google directed me to an op-ed by a West Ham site, predicting that the clubs would end up doing a sack-swap – Moyes returns to us and "prodigal son (now forgiven)" Frank goes back to his roots…

And I actually thought Moyes wouldn't be the worst appointment we could make – that's how desperately in the shit we are.

There are no Frank lovers – just people saying he's not to blame. But there are Kenwright acolytes – Darren, Ian, Terry etc.

I don't think I have ever read anything more moronic on this site. A bit like being called a Tory by Johnson.

Martínez? Been there! Done that!
Moyes? (See Martínez.)
Rooney? Good player, but hardly any chops as a manager. (See Lampard)
Dyche? Moyes… take 2
Pochettino? He'd be a fool to come anywhere near us.

So who? It's a serious question… Who?

Anyone's a risk with that squad but I'd go for Kompany or the Frank at Brentford. I reckon we could end up with Dyche.

With regards the new tenuous rumours about Pochettino wanting to return to England, I think he would have been very interested in coming if there was some decent money to spend. In our current state, I don't think he will want to take it on.

But you never know, we are a great club with the most passionate support in the country. He will be worshipped if he can turn this club around and lead us to the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock as an organised, competitive football club.

With regards Rooney, he needs to prove himself as a manager first; he's not done anywhere near enough to convince he's ready for the Everton job.

- leaving a striker till 15% through the season, then signing a 5ft-tall one to play as a lone no 9
- signing two aged and slow centre-backs
- continuing to play 2 wingers capable of maybe 10 between them in a front 3.
- running out Doucoure with the only backup options being Davies.
- playing Davies over Price after Price was best player on tour.
- allowing all 3 midfielders to bomb up together
- playing a 㿏M man in 3 different places to work out what he does.
- rushing Calvert-Lewin back too soon.
- loaning out all the promising youngsters and bringing through none.

The list goes on and on…

A manager needs time to build a successful team.

Neither Thomas Frank nor Vincent Kompany will be remotely interested in replacing Lampard.

It's also really important to understand that Brentford's success – like that of Brighton under Potter – is not really down to the manager.

It's down to a very carefully mapped out club strategy which the manager is part of. You can't take someone like Thomas Frank out of that environment and expect him to succeed at Everton.

Managers fail at Everton because everything about the club at (non-existent) strategic level is geared up for failure.

Yes, I know the real reason for our decline. Preaching to the converted, brother.

A good manager needs time to grow a team, a bad manager needs little time to take it backwards.

There isn't one thing he's improved in an entire year.

Just who? They'd have to be bonkers or skint – probably both.

Happy to be proved wrong though.

Bring one in at the end of January after losing points to Southampton and West Ham = too far to get back.

Decisions this weekend will affect the lives of us and our kids for decades.

Thank you for more real proof of what many already think that Kenwright is more concerned about his bank balance than Everton FC.

We all know Frank goes after Man Utd, as Bill and Co will want to deflect protests away from them at the next home game.

I agree but there are many Blues who don't agree.

He inherited a very poor squad with a “Don't know how to win” mentality — as famously said by Dyche last season when they beat us.

Understandably, it is hard for many to accept that Everton have fallen so far behind. I get the impression many still believe a 'decent manager' could take a punt on some wise old crocks like Reid and Gray, promote a few kids from the youth team and get back to the top table.

The truth is that we are financially miles behind at least 7 clubs – and our persistent non strategy under Moshiri has seen us easily overtaken by many others – including minnows like Brentford and Brighton. Burnley have now switched their strategy to player development and Kompany is reaping the rewards.

This is not the 1980s. The Premier League is anti-competitive at the top and the next tier down comprises clubs that have innovated to get where they are.

If we stay up, we can do it – but the whole approach of the club needs to switch to low-cost recruitment (foreign markets and talented youth) and academy player development (including recruitment for the academy).

If we don't do that we'll be back here again next season wondering why the next new manager is so crap.

The fundamental problem is that the club itself is dysfunctional and very badly run and I don't see any change until Moshiri finds a buyer, and that buyer makes a clean sweep of the board, Bill's gang and everything else rotten about the club.

Until then, I think we just have to put up with it. I just hope it happens sooner rather than later, before we turn into Sunderland or Sheffield Wednesday.

That's bloody obvious nor do they have any mid-term or long-term plans. Ship without a captain or a rudder heading for the rocks.

Moshiri's "non strategy" of affording our last six managers around 750m is the reason we have been over taken by smaller clubs ?

Brentford who have been in the wilderness since the back end of the second world war got promoted because they are a well run club ? Nothing to do with finally finding an excellent coach. He is just lucky to be along for the ride ?

And Kompany isn't the reason for Burnleys great start. He's reaping the rewards of the clubs player development strategy ? You do realise that the "well run " Burnley only got relegated a few months back ?

I'm trying to work out if you are representing the case for the prosecution or the defence.

By naming Kompany and Frank you have put up TWO perfect examples of how the appointment of a good manager can turn around the fortunes of clubs going absolutely nowhere.

Strategic plan ????? They did not give their managers massive backing. They simply appointed good ones.

A novel idea I know, but I would love Everton to give it a whirl sometime.

Hugh

Ferguson has already rescued this club from free fall. He tried to get the job and was turned down in favor of Frank and his Barra boys. That`s gone so well.

Even his biggest advocators (like me) dont expect him to pick up the poisoned chalice for a third time

Besides. All the stategic master minds who insist the manager doesnt matter in our circumstances would be up in arms if it was given to him...

Spending money on a particular profile of player is a strategy, buying players from specific low cost markets is a strategy, developing young talent is a strategy, recruiting players with specific physical attributes to suit a style of play is a strategy.

Thomas Frank is doing a great job but he's not responsible for all of this - he's part of a club management that had used this strategy in Denmark with Midtylland and saw it as an opportunity to build something in England.

You can't just install him as manager at dysfunctional Everton and expect the same success.

So nobody should be surprised that apart from Wolves we are the lowest goal scorers in the Premier league. And we don't look like a side who will score many goals, Frank has had 36 games to turn this around and he hasnt. Yes he seems a decent bloke but results matter and he hasnt been able to get the results. He has been backed financially as much as the rules would allow, so he can have no qualms on that score, and he has brought 8 players in, so when some posters say nobody could get a tune out of this squad lets remember Frank signed 8 of them.

The next question is who do you get, well we can rule out the likes of Tutchel or Pochettino they are far to good to be joining a team in our position, and even Vincent Kompany wouldn't look at Everton why should he when Burnley will be back in the Premier league next year. Sadly I think we will be looking at someone who is out of work as no compensation to pay, as paying Frank and his coaches off wont come cheap. And whoever we get might not be able to save us from relegation, but to leave Frank in charge means nothing will change and we will I believe get relegated if he is left in charge.

KENWRIGHT OUT!

Sadly, (for me anyway) the West Ham players are still trying for Moyes so I don't think he will become available so it will it seems be between Roberto and Dyche.

Yes finding the right coach is vital.

But the best of coaches would fail at Everton for the reasons you mention.

That's why we're doing our best impression of Abramovic's Chelsea, only their rotating door was for very different reasons.

By the way, I don't have anything against Dyche. I don't even know him. Not my cup of tea as a football manager, but I do respect the job he done at Burnley.

I've just been reading the Southampton equivalent of TW.
You could be reading TW as the comments etc are very similar.
Most of them are already resigned to going down.
What scares me is that a team in their position come out fighting when they have already gone in their next game!
Losing to Southampton won't be the end of the world, but it will deepen the hole we are in.
So if Southampton are gone/going it's 2 from 7.
I know I'm deluded but it's better odds when trying to recover from Tuesday nights fiasco.
Blood the youngsters tomorrow in the cup (were not going to win it) and see who's up for the fight. There's plenty of slots available IMO, however, the same old faces will be back against Southampton!
I don't know how, but Kenwright and his entourage have to go.
I'm not for sacking managers, and hope Frank can get something out of a dejected squad of players who need to show passion when wearing the shirt.
If Frank does go, then we are back to square one again and the trap door will open taking us into the championship with Southampton!
Leaving 1 from 6!!!

Moshiri has spent hundreds of millions on coaches to develop players, Managers to manage them, DOF's to find them, That is the same strategy as every other top club.

The difference between us and successful clubs, is that they have employed the right coaches managers and DOF's. Moshiri keeps buying pups.

There is a very clear difference to having a different strategy and making the wrong choices.

Every time we see a club have a flash-in-the-pan couple of seasons after decades in the wilderness, somebody comes along and starts taking about their "strategy". Its bollocks. Brentford right now are doing the right things. Employing the right manager. signing players (the right ones) within their means, but they will surely go the same way as the others when this little bubble burst.

You cant cite seven clubs who are doing what we are doing only on a bigger scale and then carefully select this seasons flavour of the season as examples.

Moshiri would be praised to the rooftops if the people he has hired had done the jobs he was paying them to do. He chose poorly and they took the money with the certain knowledge that they would not be held accountable by a large section of the fan base.

One thing is for certain; All those mercenary free loaders will be delighted to hear that although they were employed to come up with plans, they are exonerated..... Because there was no plans.

The main problem seems to be the preparation of the squad, which after their exertions against Man City, where not up to the standards expected of a Premier League Club in regard to fitness.This has been a repetitive occurrence for years.They use to be able to get two results and a loss,now it is one result and a loss if we are lucky ,which is relegation form.

Whilst Lampard would have been better to have went all out defence,this should not be the only option available for a Premier League Manager.There has been a tendency for defensive players to stay deep, because they are afraid of having to defend on the turn.An inept attack allows the opposition defence to pressurised Midfield with impunity.

It obvious to the top trio that they have contributed to the above failings and eight Managers later excuses are hard to find.

Lampard might be a proud man but up to now has proved to be a less than effective manager, his record at Everton is worse than Benitez and on a par with Mike Walker.

He has done little this season that inspires confidence that he can improve the team or even more important save us from the drop, Tuesday night was damning evidence of his capability as a manager with the team selection and set up after the performance against City was the way to try and keep Everton in the game and earn some points, I just don't think he has it in him to become a very good manager.

Last week on ToffeeWeb a lady observed that she has never thought Frank had a long term interest in staying on Merseyside with Everton because of the lifestyle him and his wife live, more committed to be down south.

I posted the same views months ago on Grandoldteam and believe that is the case, I don't think it will be a hardship for Frank to lose his position at Everton.

Not having a go at you Christine you love the Blues as much as anyone following the club and give your last breath helping Everton FC to be where they would be if they were run properly by someone who had Everton's best interests at heart instead of their own, best wishes girl as always.

P.S. I wish you were a multi billionaire, I know where you would spend some of your money and with your common sense and love of the Toffees Christine we'd have none of these bleedin' worries.

I think Postecoglou might have been a good fit a few weeks ago be, but sorting out this mess has now become a monumental ask. It will take an extremely strong willed, experienced, and football savvy character to engineer our survival.

Not many of them knocking about from what I can see.

I am beginning to succumb to the thought that our goose is cooked. Somebody convince me I am over reacting please.

That is where Moshiri blinked.He had brought in Benitez to shake up the whole structure, instead of doing it directly by th normal channels as he should have done.The big question is why did he not directly do this.He has had a arm lengths approach from the start,and only when motivated by the need the tighten the purse strings does he get involved in a limited capacity.

Even now he has given up on that, seemingly happy the Premier League Profitability and Sustainability are doing that for him.They are even giving leeway, beyond the Rules, giving those at Everton involved in negotiations more power.Sanctions possibly raising their ugly head keeping Moshiri in his box.

It is not only a shambles on the pitch.

Not sure where you got your short list from?
Only Dyche out of those would do for me.
Our goose isn't cooked yet!, but getting pretty close.
Another 20 games to go, however, on current form our goose would be cooked.
Every team have blips, but ours is continuous. Surely things can't get any worse!, can they???

ALL of them. If we are to get on a sustainable path then they all need to improve radically or be replaced. Since the Chairman and CEO get paid the executive compensation, let's start with them.

Here is a question I was thinking to myself. What department or individual associated has done a top quality job over the last several years? Everton's stadium development and project manager Alex Craig - because we have the proof before our eyes that the bloody thing is getting built to schedule!

While we patiently wait our turn to find our first decent manager since the late 1980s, other clubs are acknowledging that football finances in particular have moved on and are innovating to compete.

Look at the profile of the players Brentford are signing. Look at the development of potentially elite talent by Brighton at partner clubs in Belgium and elsewhere. Arsenal are recruiting based on a specific set of role based statistics. Leicester and Liverpool have done their own versions of this - all designed to provide a sustainable flow of talent into the first team.

Fair play to Moshiri, he spent money early on (albeit never Chelsea / City level) on the apparent presumption the club knew what it was doing. He then turned his attention to the stadium.

But the reality is that there has been no recruitment or development strategy - best exemplified by the too many cooks summer when we bought Rooney, Sigurdsson, Vlasic and Klaasen all for more or less the same position.

True, we hated his football and he is very much a marmite character, but I'm left wondering if he wouldn't have given us a more stable basis to go forwards?

My point being, that appointing a horrible manager won't really appeal to the fans, but perhaps some pragmatism to address the situation, both financial and footballing, that we find ourselves in wouldn't go amiss for a few seasons?

Brighton, Brentford, Norwich and Bournemouth all show that football clubs can be well run on a budget with all four establishing a far more sound financial basis than we currently have.

I'd argue that most Everton fans would rather watch the type of football Brighton and Brentford are playing than is currently served up at Goodison. The price these clubs pay is obviously the yo-yo nature of their existence in the top flight; however, I'd rather be entertained and be shite, than be shite and hate what I'm watching… orbe horrible and win.

The last time anyone was running this club was when Moyes was here. He took over everything, and ran it very well. But since then it's just drifted.

Moshiri has no interest in the club, he's not even in the country. We were bought by them as a plaything for a gangster, a literal gangster who has been banned since the Ukraine war.

People do get a bit hysterical on here about Kenwright and his machinations but, in the cold light of day, he bought the club on borrowed money, rinsed us dry, and then sold us to Russian gangsters for a massive profit. And we are. living with that decision.

Base Salary: ٣ million

Weekly Wage: 𧴡,000

Total Value of Contract: 㾻 million including bonuses.

It's going to cost us ٥.5M to sack him plus his staff, so maybe about ٦-10M altogether? Can we afford to sack him? Can we afford not to? One thing is for sure: he won't walk, he will stay on saying he can turn this around.

And Kevin, well said, that's exactly how I see it too. Nobody is running the club – it has been cast adrift, the absent owner, the part-time chairman and the amateurs left in the office to fudge it. Dysfunctional from top to bottom.

Eddie Howe defied gravity for years at Bournemouth, just as Frank is doing now. History is absolutely littered with poorly run clubs being dragged up by the bootlaces by good managers. I would love to see a list of successful clubs who had bad managers.

You gush about the way things are done at Leicester, Liverpool and Arsenal. Why do you think that is? Could it be the people the owners hired to do a job are actually doing that job?

Horse, Cart, Before…

Allardyce's League performance was no better than Unsworth's... and the man Moshiri wanted had become available – it's no big surprise that the switch was made.

We are in such a bad place right now that I am resigned to going down this season, whoever is in charge. But, in that event, we need someone to bring us straight back up again.

Eddie Howe, for example, would have been such a name but that ship has sailed and is out of sight over the horizon now.

If a miracle happens and we remain in the Premier League, all well and good – I would be ecstatic – but perhaps a rocking season in the Championship, enjoying the watch and having been the catalyst for radical change at the top, might not be all that bad.

Bring in the man that will bring us back up again! Suggestions...?

That's just not true.

Allardyce took us from the lower reaches of the league to 8th. Unfortunately, fan power saw him off just like it did with Periera and appointing Lampard.

The cheapest option is still to keep Frank in place, for the short term. Long term it probably means relegation but the idiots at board level are either clueless as to what to do, or who to get, or simply have no money.

Moshiri is putting everything on hold in the hope that we get through the FA Cup and somehow beat Saints.

From the recent evidence, Hell will freeze over before this team scores more than one goal in 90 minutes.

I suspect that they are reluctant to give Frank any serious money, hence the Ings deal running aground. Simms being recalled is also a worrying sign.

It could be that a midfielder is the priority and they will hope to draft a journeyman striker in the last minutes of the window. If so, it looks like crisis management. The club now are using Lampard as a buffer to try to deflect criticism of themselves.

Personally I think Frank is just an inexperienced guy, living too far from home and family, trying to do and say the right things, but without the ability to cajole or bully the way Klopp can for example.

Perhaps he is too nice. It is true that the squad looks very brittle mentally and lightweight physically. Perhaps he has tried everything he knows but his answers at pressers are simply along the lines of "It is what it is" and we just have to keep "doing the work".

The obvious elephant in the room is his team selections and tactics, which have been wrong so many times. His dogmatic approach, repeating the same mistakes, is puzzling as he seems to be intelligent.

What is clear is that he fails to inspire this group. Watching him on the touchline, arms crossed, brow furrowed, when his counterpart jumps about barking instructions, gives the impression that he just doesn't know what to do. His sidekick looks like he's a rabbit in the headlights too.

Our only hope is to get an organiser. We need a no-nonsense guy, who can motivate players, put in simple instructions, keep us in games and gather points. Other teams will have bad runs, there is a long way to go.

This board and the owner have wasted 6 weeks. They are now going to waste another week or two until they have no choice but to sack him. Then the new guy will have no time, no window, which might save them a few bob now but will cost so much more if we go down.

I am astonished at how unprofessional our club is run. How unprepared they are, and how out of touch they are.

I'm not shocked, of course. My worry is that I don't trust them to get Dyche (not everyone's dream choice but a pragmatic one); I can see them getting in a Kenwright romantic musical choice. A returning father, son, long-lost friend.

No one outside of our fanbase will have an ounce of sympathy for us if we go down. We are seen as having squandered half a billion pounds, bought shite, have Russian ties, and a toxic support.

If we do sack the affable cockney, expect his media chums to sharpen the knives: "Poor Frank – what could he do with that lot? No money to spend, a disfunctional squad and a fanbase living in the past."

Whatever happens, it's going to get messy.

Sadly, as I had hoped for Frank, it needs to happen. I just hope the new manager is a serious manager and not just another punt (spelt with a P).

Allardyce dragged us up the table at the same rate of progress that Unsworth was already achieving – there was no improvement in Premier League performance, despite the more favourable circumstances Allardyce enjoyed in comparison to Unsworth.

The problem is we won't come back from relegation.

All we will get v Man Utd is Lampard reverting to the 3-5-2 that got us the draw v Man City only this time we won't ride our luck and we will be well beaten.

I would expect talks will be made over the weekend. They need a bounce for Southampton, it's a game that we can't afford to lose.

Dead man walking, for me.

The only strengthening business so far has been the return of Simms and a failed loan attempt for Ings. It could point to being too skint to do anything about Frank's status but to plod on and hope things somehow miraculously improve.

Or alternatively, some outgoings required and a new footballing term may then be coined – “sell to sack”!

You are chatting absolute rubbish again.

In 2016 Unsworth was in charge for 1 match which he won.

In 2017 he was caretaker for 8 matches: Won 2 Drew 1 Lost 5.

The only direction he took the club is towards Oldham where he is stinking out the place.

I don't believe either of Frank or Potter are bad managers. Far from it. They do / did their role well.

However, their role does not extend to determining what players are available to them. The clubs have a strategy for that. So the manager / coach is equipped to do his job by the club's recruitment and development strategy – and the people tasked with running that strategy.

It's the same with Arteta at Arsenal and even Klopp who was specifically chosen because he'd achieved success in the sort of model Liverpool wanted to adopt to try and compete with Chelsea and City but without the same level of resources.

Not many managers run the show these days. That's a very old-fashioned approach. But then we're a very old- fashioned sort of club.

If we go down, then we aren't bouncing straight back up again with the players we've currently got – let alone the ones we'll be left with –and to be honest we are probably going to be facing financial oblivion.

Moshiri doesn't have the money to finish the stadium with Usmanov now being sanctioned and his money restricted. There's a good reason why there have been stories about us trying to sell to US investors and raise funds for the stadium as he hasn't got the Usmanov Russian funds to use.

It's a bit like everyone moaning about us selling Richarlison – we had to do it by a set date to show the Premier League that was taking control of our finances in line with P&S Rules. We had no choice and I'm pretty sure that the Dele Alli deal was all part of the agreement to take Richarlison as well in the summer.

We are so poorly run, with a man at the helm who has no clue what he's doing (the El Ghazi loan deal is a prime example of him just working with agents) and now no access to money.

Relegation could be the nail in the coffin of this club. It's not doing a Leeds I fear, it's us becoming the next Bury…

Dramatic maybe, but look at all the analysis from Paul the Esk and insights from others. We are not financially sound and run by idiots.

It's a self-fulfilling prophesy without a striker — we'll go down as we don't have the goals in us.

Legendary Everton striker Graeme Sharp has been appointed to the club's Board as a non-executive director it was announced today.

Sharp, 61, first joined the Blues as a player from Dumbarton in 1980 and went on to form an integral part of the club's famous trophy-winning side of the mid-1980s.

In recent years, the Scot has fulfilled an ambassadorial role for Everton but has now been elevated to the boardroom.

“This club is in my blood," Sharp said upon the announcement. "I have enjoyed many great days as a Blue — and joining the Board and being able to play a part in shaping Everton's future is one of the greatest honours of all.

“I look forward to working with my fellow board members and take my responsibility as a custodian of our great Club very seriously.”

Club Chairman, Bill Kenwright, said of the news: “We were determined to have someone join us with not only great knowledge of Everton but also extensive football insight and experience.

"Someone who could support and challenge. And in Sharpy's case we've got this in abundance.”

The point is we shouldn't be in this position again — poor governance and no strategy equals poor decisions relating to managers and players.

Fans will have to drag them through again but I'm not sure it will work or if there is enough energy left but, in my view, it's the only way we have a chance of getting out of this again.

Our mess is because of Kenwright having a say in everything from the owner, to the manager, to the backroom and boardroom staff. That's why we're fucked.

If a successful manager like Ancelotti walked away, it says everything about how the club is run. Lampard will be gone shortly in my opinion, but he's not the problem.

If the board sell our best player, Richarlison, after avoiding relegation, and the manager isn't allowed to sign Cornet for 㾽.5M as his replacement, because Burnley wanted the money upfront, what hope has he got of bringing top players to the club?

Looking at all the different comments coming out about Kenwright now, shows a man who sadly puts himself above EFC, some Evertonian in disguise.

It's not the lack of a striker, it's the tactics.

Whoever is up front is isolated and gets no service just like every other striker we have used up front like Rondon, Kean, Tosun, Maupay, Simms, Cannon. You need to be World Class to play up front on your own marked by 4 defenders.

If we sign another forward, it will just be another in the Goodison lone forward graveyard.

With our outgoings, our net spend is only 㾺M for the last 2 seasons. The regurgitation of half a billion spent by Everton was 3-5 years ago now. And yes, we totally wasted the money but very few, if any, of those players we signed during that period are still here.

Moshiri may as well have done a KLF stunt and just burnt the cash. Would have been just as effective.

Meanwhile, at Tapeworm Towers, Kenwright scrutinising media reports for ex-players to ban over criticism. Fucking parasite… get out of our club.

So theoretically what happens when we get battered at home to Southampton and are bottom of the league on 15 points? Do people still believe that Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale et al haven't fucked up and ruined us? They should be fucking frog-marched out of the city.

He is the problem. A thief will keep on stealing, an arsonist will keep on setting fires unless people in authority stop them and it is the same at Everton, the Chairman and Board will keep on performing as normal unless someone with the authority, like the owner, does something about it.

It is like the saying, Nero fiddles while Rome burns. Despite all the talk from the players, I think they are now frightened to play, and are gradually losing confidence in the club, and no manager can cure that, it takes positive action from the top to cut out the cancer.

As a teenager, I thought he was great, but now I just feel he's betrayed Everton fans supporting the self-serving Charlatan Kenwright.

To put it bluntly, I see Greame Sharp as a complete tosser.

If we can't find the players we need, we change the manager.
I don't want to sack Frank but, as we are, we can't win a game.

I'm not interested in the Man Utd game, but the next two Premier League games are proper 6 pointers.

You say in your post that "Frank and Potter aren't bad managers – far from it – they do/did their role well".

I don't quite know why you included Potter in this post, but just tell me how you define that Frank is doing his role well?

I have certainly seen no overall improvement since he arrived; our goal tally since he arrived has been woeful and his win ratio is one of the worst by any Everton manager.

You are putting up the job description of a DoF. We have had three of them. They have all been crap and failed to do what Moshiri paid them to do.

He's done his bit, but he has been let down badly by managers, coaches, directors and recruitment. He has put people in similar or the same positions as the more successful clubs have. Therefore his "strategy" has been the same or very similar.

You can come up with the greatest football strategy since football strategies were invented in the minds of those who choose to over-complicate the game... but if you bring in the wrong people... you will end up where we are now.

I have put forward my points and you have put forward yours, but we will never agree on this. For me, Moshiri is the least guilty person at the club.

He must lay awake at night ruing the day he ever met Kenwright.

Farcical club, finally getting what it richly deserves, and not before time.

After Unsworth took over from Koeman, he gained 7 points from his 5 League matches in charge & dragged us out of the relegation zone.

Allardyce then took over & achieved 34 points from the 24 League matches he was in charge for.

Despite the fact that Allardyce had more time to work with the players and a transfer window to bring in new signings, the points per match barely changed.

Simple facts, Ian.

Darren – we could go back and forth on this for ages but it just gets boring for everyone else and we still won't agree. You're welcome to your views and sorry I described them as nonsense earlier.

Link

Take a non-Everton view that aligns with many of our sentiments.

No communication from the owner, chairman etc... with what is going on, direction the club is going etc...

Even the pundits and ex-players are finally coming out now and saying it's the board and the club is in constant freefall.

As everyone has said, until we have a new owner, chairman, CEO and the club is owned by people who know how to run a football club, I am afraid it's all going to be doom and gloom.

What I actually think now is nothing will happen until the stadium is built and then he will sell and make money for himself and Kenwright.

Sad state of affairs now and for the foreseeable future until the ownership changes.

I've been sick to death of the cancerous piece of shit Kenwright for over 15 years. It must be awful hearing how badly one of your own is being discussed by the real fans of the club.

Spurs fans now demanding questions of their board whom they hate. Will share any findings they say – this is called an independent supporters group – not one that is set up by Kenwright to deflect all criticism, and managed by some half-baked ex-player who's taking the coin (looking at you, Sharp, you twat).

Makes my fucking piss boil that we've got to this stage after so so long of the diabolical bastard's subterfuge. Can you imagine being in their position and demanding better??? No – well you fucking should have been in 2009-10 after the FA Cup Final.

A coach, who will get us on solid ground, there is no doubt.
A coach, who has a lot to prove in the Premier League.

Jose Mourinho.

At least you didn't put Ian Wright on the witness stand... He was a roaring success as a manager. I doubt he even knows who Moshiri is,

Explains a lot though.

I don't think it's unhealthy to view the opinions of those external of Everton.

Especially winners.

See you at Old Trafford tomorrow if you want to meet.

As I said, Lampard does not have the experience or technical ability to get the best out of the players. I would also say, even if he did have the capability and expertise, the quality of players we have is not good enough. Put the two together and you're up a creek without a paddle.

Why did we sign Lampard? Board decision.
Why did we sell the few good players? Board decision.
Why did we buy poor players at inflated prices? Ask the Chief Negotiator.

Overall, chickens come home to roost. Each poor decision was compounded by another; this team wasn't built on sand, it was built on egos. It's not good enough to be called a team.

If I was a multi-billionaire, Dave, I would clear the boardroom without even saying hello. I would bring in a forensic accountant to turnover the rocks where the secret deals were done. I would appoint an experience CEO with a background and reputation in football. I would for one year only have an open meeting with any fans, no matter what the questions. I would represent my football club at each and every opportunity. I would not hide. I would not lie.

And each and every Evertonian would be proud to be blue.
That's what it means to own this club. At least I and a million blues would sleep each night.

I agree. Posters are even referring to the Moyes era of no chance of winning anything and comparing it to the Moshiri chance of winning anything era and failing to realise the common denominator of Kenwright, the business success and club management disaster.

Lampard was recruited as a compliant formula manager by the Board, just to keep Everton in the Premier League, as Moyes was. The problem is, after 28 years of mismanagement, no manager coming in is the solution.

Mosihi would have never got buying into Everton if he demanded changes in the club management. But he got in at a discount, with value appreciation based on a stadium development and increasing valuations of Premier League clubs. It will be a successful investment for him, as long as Everton stay in the Premier League.

He did provide funds and suggested structural changes at Everton which were squandered by the incompetent, self-serving management that run the club.

Trying to change Everton is not easy. Any fan protest has continuously been nullified by the club, going to extraordinary manipulative lengths to do so. Moshiri has found the same to a large extent, even finding himself under pressure to sell for his trouble.

He thought going to Man Utd was similar to going to Man City, as they are big clubs, good players, good squads...
Sounds like Calvert-Lewin is tired and won't start.

He was asked what improvements there had been in a year and he said the squad had progressed.

There you go.

His reply shocked me. "Don't be so sure of that, matey," he opined, "Bill is shrewder than that – his deal with Moshiri guarantees him a place on the Board in perpetuity – or so long as he wishes to be involved!"

So there it is – absolutely no plus side even in relegation. Sorry!

I've heard Everton managers criticised hundreds of times by pundits. I won't be swayed when you find one that suits your defence of them and put the link up.

He's definitely not up to a backs-to-the-wall relegation fight.

Simms was Rondon's replacement. We might get an attacking midfielder at best. Actually, they might play well against Man Utd, having been rested during the Brighton game.

Under pressure, they will put in the effort in training and get some serious motivation from Finch Farm coaches who might think it is better to look as if we are doing something.

Same formation as the City game, with players looking like they are putting in a effort. How long is it to the game after that?

They may also decide the FA Cup is extra work, as they do most years, and just want to prepare for Premier League games, getting their holiday breaks. I call them holiday breaks because little work is done during them.

We're where we are because we have no strategy and our recruitment is poor. And everything is based on the myth that we're a well-run club that only needs 'money'.

Moshiri has recruited DoFs who have been ineffective, so he feels he has to intervene. He's recruited managers who, for whatever reason, are or were less effective here than they were elsewhere. That suggests to me that there are other staff members causing problems.

He's recruited Koeman, who didn't want to come here, then decided not to back him. He recruited Silva, sold players against his will, didn't get the loaned centre-back who wanted to sign for us, then sacked him.

He expensively recruited Ancelotti, who took a better offer. He mistakenly recruited Benitez, let him make or influence structural changes, then ultimately decided not to back him. He's forced through ridiculous signings because Kia Joorabchian convinced him they were good buys.

Recruitment is more than throwing money at players. It's bringing in competent people throughout the club, then letting them get on with it. It's getting rid of people and practices that are getting in the way. It's about paying attention and learning from your mistakes.

Where I agree with Robert on strategy is that, in the last 6 years, there has been no rhyme or reason to what we've done. We've recruited individuals with no thought of how they're going to work together. There is, I feel, an old-fashioned culture at Everton determined to resist change.

If we'd recruited well, we'd be doing a lot better. I'd argue we've recruited poorly because there's no plan, no strategy, no critical thinking, no real desire to make the necessary changes.

The manager is crucially important. I'd also ask:

Who is responsible for us needing a new manager every year?
Why have we paid attention to an agent known for bankrupting clubs?
Why has Silva been sacked and ended up above us at Fulham?
What is stopping these highly-paid managers doing the job well with us?
Where is the governance that would have presented senior people running separate transfer policies?

Good strategy, good recruitment. We lack both. A vicious circle that needs to be broken.

Or do we recruit a manager every year, hoping that one of them will work?

We need to bin the so-called DoF. We have had Brands, Walsh and Thelwell – none of those three delivered.

Moshiri will be forever remembered as the man who had his kecks well and truly yanked down by Bill.

Otherwise we live in an Everton la-la land. Insular and thinking we know best. Sometimes hearing the views of supporters and pundits (feel sick) giving an unbiased opinion compared to you and I and especially from those who have achieved success in the last 40 years can open the eyes to reality.

Why is yet another manager failing?
Would Duncan have succeeded?

We are not Brentford, Bournemouth or Brighton. We are Everton. Their achievements and success are commendable and based on building a structure compared to where they were 30 or 40 years ago.

So are ours. And we've failed. Massively failed. They have been on an upwards projectile, we on a gradual downwards one. Not entirely down to management of the team but how the club had been managed and run for decades.

Actually, I do a dis-service by suggesting the club has been run for those nigh-on 40 years; it's been mis-managed.

I have to take a flight to watch them tomorrow. I have no idea how or when I'll get home in the early hours of Saturday morning but I'll figure it out.

Of course it's healthy to listen to exterior views, but we can't ignore the hundreds which don't suit us and focus on one which does.

I know you have your own views. I don't always agree with them but I have far more respect for your views on Everton than anything Ian Wright has to offer.

He knows nothing about this club and would only have stolen his view from Evertonians like you in the first place.

You'd bring a tear to a glass eye! 👍

Enjoy the game, enjoy 9,400 Evertonians going mental as we book our place in the next round.

Expect the unexpected with Everton.

We have had 3 DoFs and they havent bought a good player between them all. At what point does the manager say "This is who I want and not the wasters you are buying."

I think the only successful DoF I can remember was Frank Arneson at Chelsea but Frank didn't buy players for the first team, he went and bought the best youngsters who in 2/3 years time would be first-team players.

I could well imagine the response that you would get from some of the great managers if they had somebody other than them saying who they wanted.

People say times have changed... well, we still have 11 v 11 and the manager still coaches them 5 days a week. Now if you're saying the off-field position has changed, then employ people to do that.

Any strategy at a club should be dictated by the manager and he alone, not owners or chairmen – after all, when did you ever see an owner or chairman stand down because of their awful strategy? The answer is never.

Usmanov & Moshiri have mostly hired untried managers who haven't won anything in any of the top leagues; obviously Ancelotti was the exception and, for me, if he had stayed and been allowed the sort of budget Koeman and Silva had, we would be in a very different place now.

Just going back to people other than the manager signing players, Ancelotti only signed two players while here, Allan and James. Both Godfrey and Doucouré were signed by someone else; this was confirmed by both players when meeting Ancelotti for the first time – he admitted he knew nothing about them.

I know every club and fan has very little patience these days, if you don't turn things around within months you're a failure. And how can that happen? It takes years and many transfer windows to build a team.

People say get rid of the deadwood, sign some quality, but who's going to take the shite off our hands and what quality player wants to come to a disaster zone?

Brian H, the DoF model works if you properly buy into it and don't half bake it like Everton have. It is the continental model, essentially replaces the scouting system as we know it and you end up with a head coach rather who just focuses on the first team rather than the traditional British style manager who controls everything.

Another layer? Maybe. But it's the way the game has gone by and large.

We just haven't executed it very well.

To summarise your points, our long-term failure is due to poor strategy, planning governance, structure and recruitment? That is maybe more aligned with Robert's arguments.

Darren's view is that the key is good recruitment of the DoF and manager, who should take accountability and do the job properly that they are amply paid to do.

Most failing organisations I have seen do so because of poor strategy, leadership, operating norms and culture. The question is whether the same norms apply to a football club, or is it fundamentally different. I don't know the answer as nothing seems to work at Everton.

If we need a Tom Werner, Billy Hogan, Michael Edwards and Jurgen Klopp in combination then we are sunk, as we have the Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale as two parts of that quartet.

I hope Darren is right, as the hiring of a Klopp, Wenger, Ferguson or even Arteta could prove transformational for the club. The hiring of a Dyche, Martinez, or Postecoglu definitely won't transform shit.

I was trying to see the merits in both Robert's and Darren's arguments. We need a strong, savvy, competent manager and a coherent strategy to give him the support he needs.

I think strategy is meaningless when it's implemented poorly, but I don't think you can run a business well without one. I've run a one-person business for 20 years, even I have one!

If we're lucky enough to find the right manager, he will either insist on a level of control that would require significant change, or just screw us for the inevitable compensation money. That may mean the right one doesn't get the job.

I don't understand what the fuck you are talking about (one of my own).

I have been supporting Everton since 1954 and if you have the intelligence to read what I have been writing, I am not supporting this Board or the Chairman I am getting at the owner for allowing them to continue. Instead of continually moaning "Sack Kenwright and the Board".

I live over 4,000 miles away and it costs a lot to come home, which I do quite often, and can give you names of people who can vouch that I am a real Everton supporter, without having to capitalize it. Another fact: I was brought up as the only Evertonian in the household with a brother and sister reds.

The problem can be cured and, if you and other supporters can get rid of Kenwright and the Board, I will be first to congratulate you. But the only one that can legitimately fire anyone is the owner.

Some of us suspect that Kenwright has a contract with Moshiri that allows him to be Chairmen for as long as he likes, most likely until he dies. Moshiri has to sell in order for Kenwright to go.

I founded Yellow House Charity and ran it on my own for 35 years. I now employ 3 young people who came through YH from school days.

I started with a clear policy, philosophy, ethos, plan and way of working – although times have changed and I have done some small tweaks, philosophy and ethos stand.

I have no idea whatsoever what Everton's ethos or philosophy is on and off the pitch – if they have one!

Gueye needs an influential playmaker next to him. And we need the extra man in midfield. Not the defence.

A playmaker for the midfield and then a forward.

I think I will put myself forward to be elected to join the board, after all, I have all the same credentials as Graeme Sharpe, ie, “This club is in my blood," Sharp said upon the announcement. "I have enjoyed many great days as a Blue — and joining the Board and being able to play a part in shaping Everton's future is one of the greatest honours of all”

Sharpie says this club is in my blood, well it's also been in my blood for nearly 60 years. He's had many great days as a blue? Well so have I, only on the terraces instead of on the pitch. Anyone prepared to nominate me?

Go kicking and screaming though.

Bill has a list of everyone who has ever said or written anything negative about him. Not being on the list is the first requirement for employment or any other official role with the club.

You are fucked, mate!

I do agree because the commercialisation of the game has changed the context of how a club can be successful over the long-term.

Like you both, I have no idea what Everton's strategy, ethos, philosophy is. That is because the senior leadership do not communicate in a coherent way with the fans.

Of course the flaw in that argument is, if we change owners and don't win anything (not out of the question), nobody would ever be accountable. again.

Forget the DoFs, the players, the managers, the coaches and what goes on on the pitch. We can forget all discussion and observations because we will know that lack of strategy or perceived lack of strategy will be to blame....

But then how will we explain basket cases like Real Madrid winning club football's top prize all the time?

Hope to see you tomorrow, mate. I should be in Manchester for 5 pm.

As in other walks of UK life, the longer people refuse to admit they don't know what they're doing, the more lies and bullshit they give us, the more they lack credibility, etc.

I'm not convinced anything will change at Everton, until Moshiri sells to owners that give the business a thorough clean-up.

First steps are, as George C says, playmaker, then striker, regardless of which the manager is.

I will second you anytime – you would be far more effective than that chocolate fireguard Sharp.

Out of interest do WE have an actual INDEPENDENT fan group? Or is the one we have the white-washed Kenwright one where he's bought (coerced) the silence out of those involved. I ask because we desperately desperately need an independent body so that fans can be heard and we all have access to those running the club. Kenwright has been very successful in the divide and conquer tactics to split the fans and prevent mass protest. So that Spurs thing today got me thinking. We've definitely got pressure groups like Paul's NSNOW (and old KEOIC, Blue Union etc) but I think there needs to be an over-arching fan group tied to this, that the club can't touch, which also has access to local media. Any ideas? Fans forums are great but it gets a bit like an echo chamber and we're all pretty much on the same page now (bar a few of Bill's disruptive mates).

Any person including fellow directors were trampled, and now seemingly the owner seems impotent to ridding the club of this curse. We are left with DBB and Sharp as his "critical friends" - little hope there of dissent.

Can't wait for Rob's elevation to the boardroom - it will certainly liven up the meetings

What's the fucking point?

Nobody really wants to move to a struggling club that may be relegated soon unless they are desperate and Everton have signed too many desperate players in the past.

Loanees might be the only ones but let's face it, they would be second raters and we have enough of those.

A really sad time indeed for all of us with no sign of anything happening in a positive sense.

Dare I mention the word ''win'' but getting one against Manure might just help them to get out of this malaise but if not three points against the Saints becomes more important.

I went to every game in that cup run from Portsmouth, bar the Gillingham home game. I'll be roaring them on in hope from the Highlands tomorrow.

If you want to revisit the Meadow Lane toilets try lower bullets 😉

Now should there be any imprisonment, we will hold marches and protest that Rob is Innocent, Free this Hero Now !

Well it worked for Deidre on Corrie ! :-)

I am still in the camp that says a good general manager will trump a coach/DOF model.

Our only bits of moderate success in the last 30 years have come from Moyes and Joe Royle who managed the club from top to bottom despite attempted influence from the boardroom.

We need a manager who will break the mould rather than conform and be agreeable to everything.

The problem is finding them and convincing them to come. We have all bandied about names and our views are just like those running the club. All over the place and totally unsure of the solution.

When Moyes came he was a champion. He pronounced us as the peoples club and immediately put his stamp on the club.

That is exactly what we need now. Not Moyes back but somebody like the "Moyes" that came to us initially.

It would also help to empty Kenwright and his entourage out but due to the agreements in place I cant see that happening anytime soon.

He'd be my choice too, but as Mick and Keith once said, you can't always get what you want.

Interesting the votes for Dyche in second place, I didn't expect him to be that popular.

Ange Postecoglu Votes: 73 12.7%
Mauricio Pochettino Votes: 191 33.3%
Brendan Rodgers Votes: 9 1.6%
Scott Parker Votes: 5 0.9%
David Moyes Votes: 62 10.8%
Sean Dyche Votes: 99 17.2%
Duncan Ferguson Votes: 22 3.8%
Vitor Pereira Votes: 3 0.5%
Marcelo Bielsa Votes: 29 5.1%
Roberto Martinez Votes: 20 3.5%
Other Votes: 61 10.6%

This weekend's Cup results will have particular relevance !

Lampard is inadequate, but will changing him give us someone highly effective and efficient? Will changing him make Gueye able to pass, allow Calvert-Lewin to survive two games without injury or fatigue, make Patterson able to think as well as run or turn any of the other players who are manifestly struggling to do their job a jot better?

Start at the top if you want to truly clean out the Augean stable that is Everton. Unfortunately the only people who can effect change at that level are the very people who need to be changed and therein lies the problem.

Yet it beggars belief that people still come on here and try to defend him, stating that Kenwright as Chairman is merely a Figurehead,* and has no, or little influence in the running of the Club.

* I have seen better Figureheads on Viking Longships and Grimsby Trawlers than that despicable waste of good oxygen. *

Mauricio Pochettino to Everton - no chance !

It would be right to say that Moyes couldn't just walk out, but who would bet against Teary Bill sweet-talking Sullivan into 'conveniently' letting it all go through as a 'win-win' for all sides?

Yes I have heard this before it was supposed to have happened during the time F.Moshiri wished to become owner of Everton F.C. I may be wrong and will stand down if someone has positive prove of what was in any agreements to become an owner by becoming the major shareholder or if I am wrong in any of my figures.

Everton are a shareholders company where the largest share holder can become owner. In 2016 when F.Moshiri expressed interest in buying Everton B.K.was registered as owner with the largest number of shares of 26% of shares. To me that left 74% of shares in other peoples hands, 2 others on the board had 36% combined of shares R.Earl with 23% and J.Woods with 13% so if their were any demands for B.K. to remain Chairman it had to be with collusion with these 2 as if Moshiri just bought both their shares this would have given him 36% of shares that made him owner.

Now as I said I may be wrong and people can correct me but in 2016 when F.Moshiri became owner he bought 13.7% of his shares from B.K., "R.Earl who as far as I am concerned done nothing for Everton " sold him all of his 23% and laughed all the way to the bank., and J.Woods sold him 13% of his shares. This made F.Moshiri the Everton owner as majority shareholder. with 49%.

In 2018 Moshiri increased his shares to 68.8 % buying more shares from B.K. the rest of J.Woods shares and from Abercromby.

As far as I can see F.Moshiri just wanted to become an owner of a football club and not run it so he left B K as chairman, and now with the rest of his F--ck ups in managerial appointments he prefers to sit back and let others, " who deserve it " take the blame instead of as owner stepping up to the plate and get rid of the cancer in the club instead of being part of it.

Enough rambling back to my home care job.

But looking around at other Premier league clubs, fans at a few clubs have been demanding change at the very top of their clubs. Certainly the Man Utd fans have had a long running campaign to remove the Glaziers, and it looks like the Glaziers may at long last sell the club. The Arsenal fans have also been very vociferous against Kronke being their owner and have had protests. But since Arteta has turned things around the protests have quelled, also at Old Trafford Ten Haag seems to be turning round their fortune. Which for me highlights the importance of getting in the right manager, other than Ancelotti we have hired managers who were never going to be successful. Again the supporters were instrumental in making Moshiri change his mind when he wanted to hire Pereira and the fans ran a campaign to hire Lampard, so maybe fans on boards making those decisions isn't all its made out to be.

I'd forgotten "Lampard...the fans choice". No one seems to add those three words to his name anymore.

By adhering to this strategy, I believe many people are keeping their job? This is the only assumption that I can genuinely make.

Not quite sure what is implied there. When have We, the Fans, ever had a say in who is either bought in as Players, or Managers Appointments ?

Possibly a Fan Poll which has been applied after the event ! As I have said often on these pages, it's a pity that the fans didn't have say in either of those decisions, or possibly we would be nowhere near the position we are in now !

Sadly it may take relegation before the penny finally drops.

Did they really get THEMSELVES ahead of the financial game ?

After decades of suspicion and complaints about financial irregularities. Courts of law have found that Real Madrid have received unlawful payments from the Spanish government using tax payers money... on more than one occasion. Both Madrid clubs have, so have Valencia, Barca too.
The reason given by prosecutors was to "give them an unfair advantage" Didnt deter anybody because Madrid were then allowed to purchase land for about 15 million below Market Value.

Barca posted loses of about 100m.

Like every other successful club around the world (Including some of footballs greatest basket cases) These clubs have historically won trophys simply by employing the right managers who in turn have brought in top players.
We witnessed it here When Wenger and Ferguson dragged their clubs from the doldrums to bring them year upon year of success.

We Evertonians don't think that's complicated enough. We need a business strategy just to haul our arses of the EPL floor.

I don't know if its true about Kenwright having wangled a deal which means he cant be sacked. I sincerely fucking hope not, but I wouldnt put it past him. - Looking at Sky sports news, we may be about to find out

What I do know, is that Moshiri has been the proverbial gift horse and the directors of this club, along with its clueless DOF's and zombie loving managers, have spent the last 5-6 years looking it squarely in the mouth

It arose from the events surrounding Frank's appointment. It was suggested at the time that Pereira was Moshiri's strongly preferred candidate and only changed his mind when bedsheets daubed with Frank's name appeared at Finch Farm.

You may be right and this in no way influenced Moshiri but there were certainly those who felt it did...hence the, now lapsed, "fan's choice" moniker.

PS Brian (#235) in his final few lines appears to remember it this way as well.

And thus; to quote some rs or other - we go again, rinse and repeat, the whole Einstein / Insanity thing etc, etc.

This sort of shit is what makes people think Moyes or Martinez Redux, The M&M Bros, Tweedledum and Tweedledumber, won't attack and can't defend, are suddenly the answer.

And what's even worse is Teary Bill would gladly take any one of them back in a heartbeat and if he could work in Rooney he'd probably do that too.

This is what I think is not likely, and I'm not against it. however the problem that remains is: our main issue is we can't score, and Dyche will not resolve that.

So if Dyche comes but is unable to stop the rot, then where are we left? Do we keep him for the arduous battle that is a season in the Championship?

other names around are : Moyes: despite everything, he is our most successful manager in the PL era (over a sustained period). and he is at his best when working with a low quality squad and getting the best out of them - as evidenced at West Ham. he has struggled since they invested and bought 'better quality '. But would fans be on board after the acrimonious way he left the club? and again, should we go down, what next?

Martinez: well. some hold.in high regard due to one great season, but he can't organise a defence to save his life, and the quality of players he would have are much much lower. I think he'd be a disaster.

Rooney: why? no experience, nothing to suggest he's got the tools or anything. just cause he was a quality youth player some 20 odd years ago? would be a disaster.

Postecoglou: if this was an appointment in the summer, I'd be up for it. he seems to have a good knowledge of players in non fashionable leagues. But why would he risk his reputation on what could very likely be disaster? not proven in a top league and they struggled in Europe when up against better quality suggest he'd struggle to improve this lot.

Our predicament leaves it unlikely we'll attract a manager like Gallardo, why risk the reputation?

the Like of Pochettino, Tuchel and co is Dreamland thinking. our position, lack of finances, and zero prospect of long term improvement is something such managers wouldn't touch with. barge pole.

I think of someone like Lee Carsley. He's got a lot of experience although non at top level. he's highly regarded and has done the leg work of building a career post playing (unlike Lampard), he's got an affinity with the club, history of working with young players, and could potentially be someone to remain and be part of a rebuild should the worse happen. Maybe a combo of Moyes/Carsley until end of season with the plan of Carsley to take full rein next season no matter where we end up?

Secondly the Financial impact could be so damaging as many players are on ridiculous contracts, plus all the rest of the Staff. Thirdly the Stadium, what would happen there ? Would work be halted etc.

It is not too late to save this season, but the correct appointments and recruitment/exits could be so vital as to our future. We have 20 games left so mathematically possible, even with the players we have if push came to shove. Average just over one point from the remaining games and safety would be almost a certainty. What a mess though and one we could see coming for far too long. The Fans Home and Away have been brilliant, and arguably got us Premiership Safety last time around. Problem is we have actually worsened since then, worrying times indeed.

No matter what happens, and has happened, only one man has gained a fortune from this miasma, one was was largely or totally constructive in it's creation.

Maybe. but I don't think shearer and Wright are taken seriously by informed footy supporters...Anywhere. I think most will come to the same conclusion as Eddie.

People I meet from outside our club don't care about Kenwright. They never will. Unfortunately that problem is ours and ours alone. Outsiders would much rather take great delight in the vast amounts of money our managers and DOF's have squandered. We will get zero sympathy and in fairness we shouldnt be looking for it.

My point to Danny was that Ian wright will learn more about Everton from him than he will ever learn from Ian Wright.

Christy#160, he backed Koeman financially, but the first sign of pressure he folded and sacked him.

Moshiri was a wild, blind gambler who never looked at the form and chased his losses to near-oblivion. Now he's in the bookies, hoping a 100/1 shot comes in to save him.

Darren's part-right. I'm sure he regrets meeting Kenwright. I bet his biggest regret is not standing up to him in the first place. He wanted a club so much after Arsenal swerved him he was gullible enough to be taken in by Kenwright.

You have a badly-run business and give it money, you get a badly-run business that wastes more money.

We could have got lucky finding the right manager early in Moshiri's time and got away with it. City, Lpool, Chelsea needed a few goes to get the right manager. We blew the money before we found one and couldn't back him.

I hope we get lucky. Frank or his replacement pulls sone rabbits out of a hat. I miss the days when a good manager comes into a club and drives it single-handedly to glory. I'd love them to come back, especially to us. But I can't see it. We're relying on a fool to sell to competent people who do the right things by us. Sad, isn't it?

That approach only ends one way. When our goose is cooked, Lampard is sacked and replaced with Rooney appointed as a temporary measure to oversee the last 2 or 3 games in the top flight.

We start 2023/24 season in the Championship with either Rooney or a new manager altogether.

I try to get to every game if I can and will continue to because, like many others, it's what I love to do and believe it's the only way I can have any influence on the team.

The board has a lot to answer for. So do the players but they looked confused against Brighton and I put that down to poor tactics or communication of those tactics. Why does Frank insist on trying to play football with this lot? He did the same last season after we beat Brentford in the cup and then Leeds in the Prem. The team showed they couldn't do it then and he hasn't learned the lesson.

I thought Frank had made a big stride forward when he switched tactics to get us battling for points. Either he has forgotten that lesson or is deluded, either way it will cost him his job unless he changes things quickly.

Everton supporters are amongst the best informed there is, we knew what was needed last season and provided in buckets. This season is different because many if not most have had enough and now demanding change. The whole future of the club is at stake, those in charge will get full support if they take the necessary actions.

WE SHOULD APPOINT DYCHE NOW

We can only turn things around if the players start working hard and fighting for every single ball, whilst playing with loads of personal pride, in every single game, obviously aided by a manager who keeps things simple and demands these very basic fundamentals.

It's not rocket science, it's just completely obvious!

Anymore word on a takeover.The whole Club seems to be threading water for some reason.

I recommend everyone register for NSNOW.It is a umbrella organisation.representing all Everton protesters and all Everton protest group, including members of ToffeeWeb.

Let's be clear. The players are not terrible and Richarlison had a good last few games. The Brighton team have no more international players than we have. We play the wrong system, with the wrong players, and they are drained of confidence.

Frank is a nice man, but he and is coaching staff are out of their depth - apart from whoever is looking after defending set pieces, you can stay.

We can't bring in Rooney or even big Dunc. To be Frank (but I wouldn't want to be Frank) I'd take big Sam! Or similar, an experienced manager that can implement a cohesive system and not a team of ball chasing under 12's!

We need a change. We need experience. We need it fast!

Sorry withdraw the above comment ,fell into a click bait trap.

More like Treacle !

Unreserved apologies to Posters.

Physically? Can you imagine any of our players getting into a scrap? It was probably an attack in the form of sad face emojis on tiktok

Probably a better description-Contracts on hold, no transfer activities, no Club response and Frank's non plus presser.

Regarding recruitment - we got rid of Allan (32) and brought in Gana (33) for ٠m and Onana for 㿊m. ??? Whose idea was that. That in itself sets alarm bells ringing for me. Personally, I think we would be better off with both Gana and Allan in the team. Water under the bridge.

Regarding the team. The look on Gana's face when Frank pulled him against City says it all for me. I don't subscribe to the theory that no manager could get a tune out of our current squad. It just requires a hard nosed character who knows what they are doing.

Twenty games to play and we have 15 points. Six wins and 3 draws will get us over the line. The first of those wins just has to be against Southampton.

I and thousands of Evertonians, want you to talk to the real supporters on a radio and engage our feelings on your SAME TACTICS.win or lose. Thats going to send us down.

Come on Frank, I challenge you.

It is possible that problems with the Football Authorities and attitudes to Russian involvement where foresaw by Moshiri and Usmanov.I have often thought that Kenwright was thought of as a acceptable frontman, who could deal with the Football Authorities and other agencies.

The agreement reached and flexibility shown by Premier Leagues Profit and Sustainability Committee and the fact Sanctions have been avoided would seem to point imo to this being good foresight.The problem I have with this is that if a dependence on Kenwright occurs it could make him harder to get rid off and be a problem in any takeover..

Calling them Gangsters may be a bit extreme though.

Well there has certainly been very few reports of them attacking the Opposition Goal ! :-)

Thanks

Alan Stubbs has shown not just guts and principle in his stance against the Kenwright regime, but also his heartfelt genuine love of Everton FC. Along with fellow former stalwarts and teammates Kevin Radcliffe Neville Southall and Peter Reid, he has openly criticised the boardroom at Goodison.

Kenwright's reaction to these former real Everton heroes, is to ban them! How utterly disgraceful. Showing just what a worthless deluded narcissistic big baby the man is.

We could hire the greatest most decorated and experienced manager in the world and it wouldn't make the slightest difference to our age old problems, until 'Boys Pen' my arse Kenwright and his little Miss Dynashite are ousted and removed from OUR club once and for all.

There's a warped view of what people are and aren't doing to bring about change.

Alan Stubbs won't bring about change. Nor will Sharp.

Fans will bring about change by putting pressure on the owner. Not on Bill, or Denise. On Moshiri. He's the one who needs to understand that his investment is being squandered and put at risk. Anyone who has been anywhere near C Suite or Boards will know that he will be presented with a view that is tainted. Accountable people at these levels don't readily expose their own failings.

To get rid of Bill we need Moshiri to understand that his Chairman is not representing the club and the Board's performance accurately.

Target Moshiri. Make him feel uncomfortable in relation to his investment and his responsibilities. Get people involved who understand football management and business structures. Get someone who can string a sentence together to write the open letter.

I don't know who those people are. I understand enough to know that it's not me. I also know enough to understand that it's not the group that put out that open letter recently.

It is certainly true that both Real Madrid and Chelsea, for example, are absolutely ruthless in sacking managers who don't win trophies every season. They did benefit from large expenditure on squads before the FFP rules were imposed, but they are definitely not financially stable and receive a lot of tolerance from La Liga and the PL. But then, the PL were very supportive of us last season in how we accounted for our debts.

If clubs like Everton just shrug their shoulders and say they are hamstrung by the PL's fair play rules, then you are right that it lets everyone shirk their personal accountability at the club. If we sack Lampard, the choice of manager will be probably the most important decision for the last two decades.

My worry is that the credibility of those making the decision. And that takes us back to the strategy and leadership of the club.

Paul T, I agree with you. The club is not communicating its strategy as it doesn't have a coherent one, or it is evidently failing.

The problem with fans targeting Moshiri is two-fold.

Firstly, he seems to have gone awol since sanctions on Usmanov and left Kenwright running the show.

Secondly, he was on the fans side of years of protests at Arsenal that yielded nothing so he may view all this as par for the course – especially if Bill is the one filling him in.

The point about Stubbs is that, unlike you or I, he has the status to get invited on national radio to air his view. Whatever his personal grievances, whatever his financial view on buying tickets, he can get exposure that we fans can't. Therefore, he's a useful ally.

Moshiri himself has not been seen at matches for some time and Chairman Kenwright appears to be supervising a boardroom of 3 acolytes. No wonder the club is in trouble.

COYB

Unfortunately, we are not a yo-yo club that can take it in our stride. We have not the bottle, the vision, and the plan to bounce back up.

Look at the thought of this 6 weeks and end of last window in working on deals to get us what we need. Frank said, “No, don't be daft. We will just react as always and see how it pans out with Ings or whoever.”

That's his response on the press conference in so many words. A transfer window is just a basic football thing so imagine the shell shock sorting out fire sales and big contracts and the stadium build without the Premier League.

The end is nigh… Kenwright Out!

Fran @250, I'm led to believe, and I will caveat it's all gossip, that Lee Carsley has been approached for a few jobs as he is impressing. But he is apparently more interested in remaining in the youth coaching setup.

I could maybe see him following Southgate's path with England more than going into club management.

Its a little bit more than tolerance. There are people in Spain still working to try to unearth the true extent of R Madrid's hand outs. Far from being the team who stole the financial march on everyone else. The deep and widely held belief is that they have been propped up by the Government using tax payers money for years. Theres more to come to this.

This is the problem with the "you need a business plan" argument. If you a little, you will find Swiss cheese. Ask how many teams have found sustainable success without good managers and good players and you'll be greeted with silence. Ask how many clubs have found sustainable success purely as a result of the clubs business plan you'll be met with blank looks.

Football is not like any other business. If it was simply about making money or achieving sustainability most of the clubs in the world would have long since folded. Sustainable success has always been about getting good team managers or DOF's and provided them with the resources to bring in players they want...Moshiri has done that in spades. Unfortunately we're Everton. we don't hold managers or DOF's to account. we simply point the finger at the guy who stumps up the dosh..

Every year we seem to look at other clubs who have a little flush of success and scream from the roof tops that we should be like them. I'm still really quite amused that people point to Brentford and their incredibly ambitious seventeen thousand stadium. as a shining example. Fair play to them. Their owner has done a quite remarkable job. Cash strapped, He and his team search meticulously for players who are undervalued, often selling them on at a profit What baffles me is that people want to forget that lack of funds has forced them down this road. They want to call it a "Business strategy".

I'm sorry, but Moyes and Kenwright were doing what they are doing fifteen years ago. at a much higher level and over a longer period...We had a different name for it then.

I have to ask; Are those proclaiming the Brentford "strategy" now going to come on and say TGT's wheeling and dealing was also a business strategy ??? I think not This "You need a business plan to be a successful footy club" argument has a secret switch. It can be turned on and off to suit what ever footy club your talking about.

Paul T

Thank you for saying I was half right. Unfortunately I cant afford you the same courtesy mate. I think you are wrong to point the finger at Moshiri and I think you are even wronger when you dismiss him as a blind gambler looking for a 100/1 shot to save him.

Moshiri and Usmanov made a tidy little packet when selling their Arsenal shares. Moshiri decided to plough his into this club. Only this time he wasnt a minor share holder. Yeah five or six managers have squandered north of 600m of his money on shite players, but you also have to look at what came back in too.

I use the TW transfer slot. It may not be flawless but its put together by Evertonians who pride themselves on getting it right an the figures you see on there are the ones I trust. According to those figures, we have recouped around 350m selling players on Moshiri's watch. If the club decides to sell Pickford and a couple of others the deficit would reduce still further.

Crazed Wild gambler ? You of all people should know better than that. He may have not made the hundred of Zillions Uncle Bill promised he would make, but whether he sells the club before the BMD construction is complete or after, I don't think we need worry about him tapping us on the shoulder trying to cadge his bus fair home.

Danny

It wasnt a compliment. It was a matter of fact.

I think we can all go around in circles on this debate.

Some think it's down to the manager. Some the players. Others the board and the leadership.

The reality, in my opinion, is it's down to the sum of all parts. But it starts at the top to set the conditions for success.

Brentford, Bournemouth and Brighton are good examples, but personally I prefer to use Manchester City and Chelsea. I would even suggest Manchester United given where they where in the late 80s. Waited 25 years for a league title, had been relegated and were a shadow of Busby's teams and their legacy.

Reinvented themselves as a club, redeveloped Old Trafford, were we will go tonight, and rebuilt a dynasty.

Yes, an excellent manager and top quality players were paramount to that. But it started with the conditions being set from the top to enable that to happen. It wasn't built from the bottom up.

They also held their nerve. I remember an 11th place finish and calls for Ferguson to go.

Echoes of 1983 for us. I'm not suggesting we are in that place right now as I wouldn't dare compare this Everton squad or Lampard to that team and Howard Kendall.

But we held our nerve and stayed with the plan. Unfortunately that plan fell apart in 1987 and we haven't had once since. We don't have one now.

That and the continuous rotation and choice of managers has damaged us.

Dysfunctional club at all levels. But it starts at the top.

I don't want to be negative on matchday as I get ready to travel, but right now I can't help it.

I'll be fine and back to my idiot self once I hit the road.

We're doomed to lose the only thing we have got left over everyone except Arsenal.

You're on to something with your Moyes/Kenwright analogy.

The likes of Brighton & Brentford are indeed doing what we did all those years ago. They have no immediate aspirations for what we would call success, happy to tick along in the top half. Or in our case, top six.

The difference is the frustrating thing for me. Moshiri clearly intends us to be genuinely successful. I admire him for that. Yet we lost our sense of rational prudence and steady building (dithering at its worst!) and went on a rampant free-for-all spending spree.

Of course it's not all his fault. But he's watched this happen and too often he's taking the easy option of sacking the manager rather than looking at the route cause.

Ten Haag is clearly making a difference at Man Utd, who in the last few years have been a richer version of us as a club. I often imagine what someone like that could have done at the start of Moshiri's reign.

Newcastle is an interesting case too. Loads of money, but brought in a good DoF who knew English football, brought in a decent manager and let them get on with it. They bought the key players they needed and are currently doing rather well. By the way, so far you're right about Howe, though I wonder how patient they'll be if he doesn't win anything?

We do need a strong, savvy, talented manager right now. I hope it's Frank. But if we're going be successful, we need to combine that with a decent structure that does more than throwing money around.

Anyway, I'm thinking of that marvellous cup tie night at Old Trafford in 1977, without comparing our forward and midfield players, then and now. Wouldn't 3-0 be good tonight?

‘Scaramanga- where've you been' I asked, ‘don't you realize what Bill Kenwright, has done to Everton Football club, over many, many years?' ‘He's better than Peter Johnson', he replied, ‘that bastard was ripping us off for years'🤦‍♂️Honestly, Everton, had just knocked the stuffing out of me, I couldn't be arsed with this clown, but it didn't stop me taking off my glasses - now needed for watching the match, and putting them in my pocket.

‘Go and do your homework lad because if you don't understand how Bill Kenwright has operated for many years, then this is why the horrible twat is still getting away with it' I said and just walked ahead of him totally bemused.

I agree that these pundits can tell me nothing about Everton, but if 30/40% of the crowd, are still behind Bill Kenwright, then if the words of Wright and Shearer the other night, can convince even 1% of people to look a lit bit deeper into our club, then that could be another 150 match going blues, who now realize what is going on, and if they can each convince a couple of their mates, then that's another 450 people turning against the most divisive man in the history of Everton Football Club. (Nah it's all on Moshiri, is what they'll probably think)

I know some people might say that I thought I knew about Everton, and that it's clear that Rafa Benitez is the most divisive man, ever employed by our club! Don't kid yourself, I'll reply, because you're definitely not fucking kidding me!!

A man who has never kicked a ball for Everton, told people inside the club, to stop giving tickets to a man who once captained Everton, out on the football pitch, because he had been critical towards our chairman (conniving bastard of a chairman) on the radio.

I personally think Stubbs is just highlighting the bigger picture now, and anyone who genuinely wants to, will be able to see that this is how Bill Kenwright, has always operated at Everton?

I have always called it Nepotism, but maybe it's a lot more sinister than this?

I loved Martinez at first but if he comes back, we will be relegated. He can't organise a defence. He doesn't look at defending set pieces or practise them. We will play sideways and backwards football without a decent target man.

His first season was the last time we were consistently good (until the last few games) but towards the end of his tenure we were atrocious. Remember the Anfield humiliation and the drubbing at Leicester when they got the trophy? Nice guy. Good philosophy on paper but it will not work with the players we have currently.

At least Dyche would get his teams playing with a bit of effort. They beat us in that 6-pointer at Turf Moor last season when he turned the game around at half-time. I wouldn't mind some of that spirit at Everton.

My preference would be to back Lampard with 3 new players and some creativity and goal threat and offload some more deadwood but I think we'll lose tonight and we'll have a new manager in place before the Southampton game.

So it seems to me he could finish it with his own money if he wanted to.

This goes right back to when Kenwright was on the Board with Johnson.On top of that the commercial side was and is a joke.( excluding the Stadium Development, which they appear to have nothing to do with.).This continued with the Moshiri takeover and is likely to continue, even if Moshiri sells all or part of his shares.The whole Club is a hodgepodge of dated ideas, based on a mythical Everton DNA that only those that witnessed the 1980s can pretend they can implement, under a even more dated heading' the School of Science'. They have titles that are meaningless in practical performance and result terms.He even thinks we are all our brother.Well he would, we made him rich.

Put a beggar on horseback and he will ride to hell.

The fact that Billy Beane's story was turned into turned into show did not mean his ideas were ground breaking or pioneering. Michael Lewis not creating. He was observing and relaying. Beane`s idea's had already been practiced in many different variations in just about every team sport in the world.

To suggest that Brentford are the only team in England who have followed this path is just plain misguided.

"Shrewd value driven management of the the most important asset - The players."... Think about what that actually means.

For all his cowardly faults TGT understood it better better than most.

He was bringing in higher caliber of players than anything Brentford have brought in and he was doing it on close to zero net spend. He was also doing it 15 years ago....Whether people like it or not.

Kenwright didnt fall in love with Moyes due to his shiny Ginger locks. He fell in love with him because he made it possible to become "best of the rest" without him having to put his hands in his deep deep pockets.

Between the pair of them they managed to convince many people that that was the best Evertonians could expect- The introduction of the glass ceiling. Frugal management was right up both their streets. This was the only gig in our town

Here's the thing; The ginger twat was not even the first to follow this so called "Strategy" of researching players, valuing them, signing them and developing players - It used to be called Wheeling and dealing

Appreciate, applaud and congratulate what Brentford have a achieved, but lets not show ignorance by claiming what they are doing is ground breaking or Pioneering. They wiil be aware that their job is only half done. The next part is to sustain it. Resist predators and stay in the EPL.

Strategy, for me at least, is a pretentious word when used by footy fans Their clubs so called strategy will merely be action generally born out of necessity. Such is the case with Brentford just as it was with such was with TGT when he was was forced to founf himself having to practice Frugal analytical player management.

The simple fact is; He WAS doing what Brentford are doing. He WAS doing it about fifteen years before them. He WAS doing it without DOF's. And he WAS doing it at a higher level and with better players than todays Brentford...Pity he was such a Frankie Howard. He could have been a semi decent manager.

I'm glad that these supporters groups have put together a such a calm rational letter to Moshiri. I think they have much more chance of bringing about Kenwrights exit than any of the ill informed screamers who are invading all aspects of social media.

These people are more likely to ensure Kenwright gathers support and stays.

Good luck to Brentford too, i'm a big fan of the club/process as you can probably tell. I'm hoping to bring my youngest to a game this year (he's a big of bees too, don't ask) which I think he will really enjoy.

I know a couple of Brentford fans, so I was aware Benham resented the term Moneyball, but I do have a question if you don't mind.

The managers role ? is it not just different terminology ? I noticed you mentioned this in your first post, so I tried several searches. Everytime T Frank came back as Manager. He is even referred to as Manager in a piece on your official website. I also note he's up for the EPL manager of the month award. How does that work ?

Could you explain the difference in his role to say Arteta or Lampard ?

Nick

I hated TGT being our manager. I hated the glass ceiling, but it would be churlish to deny the things he was good at. He brought in some absolute gems from all over the place some proved incredibly good value for money. He was the epitome of Value driven management of players. He was so meticulous in his research and evaluation of players he would sometimes take too long and miss out.

Thats how he got the nick name Dithering Dave lol.

You'll notice I don't give Kenwright any credit at all. Thats because all he had to do was sit there and be a tight MF He was born to play that part.

He'll be gone soon lad.

One other question for you? I think we tried to copy Atletico Madrid (don't know why that sticks in my head) as they have had a lot of success being best of the rest in Spain. Is that the manager or the process or both, do you think? Benfica have also had a ton of success selling players but I guess that's due to their standing in Portugal where they don't actually mind being a stepping stone type club?

Cheers

A West Ham supporting mate asked me about him when he joined. I told him he'd get them in the top eight, then they'd need to replace him.

Many contributors to these columns have criticised the quality of signings since Frank was appointed without any evidence that he was the prime mover behind these acquisitions. It is perfectly conceivable that he identified the positions which needed strengthening and it was Thelwell who chose the players. The finance available for strengthening the team, by all accounts, was very was limited.

Similarly the many critics of Bill Kenwright who attribute the club's present precarious position entirely to him have short memories. It was Kenwright who rescued the club from the clutches of Peter Johnson. It is well documented that, at significant personal risk, he mortgaged himself very heavily to help find a significant part of the funds to pay Johnson off. The partnership which Kenwright formed with David Moyes saw the club punching well above it's weight for many years despite very little finance being available for improving the playing staff. Yes, of course he's made mistakes, he's only human like the rest of us but much of the criticism, including the minority Bastille mob type comments and calls for his head, is unfair and unjustified.

I very much hope that Frank Lampard is given significant funds during this window, is able to bring in his own choice of quality strikers and get the club moving back up the table. I feel sure that he has the required ability and that, with a fair wind and the necessary slice of luck, he can go on to be a very successful Everton manager.

If, however, Frank is removed the choice of replacement will be crucially important. For experience and ability to steady the ship, arguably the best choice would be David Moyes. For youth and hopefully the future, a bold appointment would be former blue, Steven Schumacher, who is currently doing a very impressive job at Plymouth Argyle. If a new manager is appointed, that person must insist that the Director of Football position at the club is abolished; it has been an unmitigated disaster thus far.

,

Sorry mate. You'll probably know, we suffered another reverse last night and I forgot this thread.

Thanks for your response.

Enjoy the rest of the season. Except of course, when you play us

Struggling Everton and Southampton are eyeing moves for former Burnley boss Sean Dyche if they decide to make a change.

Dyche, who was sacked by the Clarets after nine-and-a-half years in charge despite performing miracles at Turf Moor, has been waiting for a Premier League club to entice him back to the front line. That opportunity could be approaching, with Frank Lampard at Everton and Nathan Jones, who only took over at St Mary's in November from Ralph Hasenhuttl, under severe pressure.

Ironically, the two relegation-threatened clubs meet at Goodison Park on Saturday 14 January – a must-win fixture for both managers, if they last that long. Dyche, who constantly had Burnley punching above their weight, has admirers in both boardrooms and the fact that he is immediately available is a huge advantage

1. How much was the value of BK's shareholding in TBH?

2. How much did he raise from the mortgage of his house?

Thanks

Yes there are extenuating circumstances and the squad has been weakened by years of unstructured and short termist recruitment but nonetheless Lampard has not got a song out of them after a year. And there is very little evidence he will. He's an inexperienced manager whose setups are questionable and seems to be incapable of making in game changes with beneficial effect.

A nice guy. But no real evidence that he's a good manager.

The following managers are free and would very possibly be better, though the first few are likely not gettable:

Pochettino, Tuchel, Gallardo, Enrique, Tite.

And the ones who probably are gettable:

Seoane, Marcelino, Dyche, Bordalas, Hutter, Bosz, Villa Boas, Bielsa, Tata.

And that's just the free ones!

Personally I like Marcelino and think he'd do a good job. But there's loads out there who are more experienced than Frank and capable of getting just a bit more out of this rabble.

His house which you say he mortgaged? He must have lived in St George's Hall...

There is also a vast difference between mistakes and the numerous (proven) lies the man has told since he became the owner of Everton FC.

Our club has lost its soul - but hopefully we can start to rebuild it - once we get rid of the two lost souls swimming in a fishbowl?

You make some good points about Kenwright and when he initially took over.

But in the longer and bigger scheme of things, we've had a failing board for decades.

Bill has been on the board since 1989. Just 2 years since we last won the league. Moyes was appointed 7 years after our last trophy. When we won the FA Cup in 1984 it had been 14 years since our last trophy; the league title that was achieved 15 years after 1970.

It's now approaching 36 years and 28 years. 36 years since we lifted a European trophy. Everton as a football club, based on it's previous standards has been failing.

I respect your views Chris, but the comment about Everton punching above our weight symbolises the expectation set by the institution overseen by Kenwright for too long. Keep the masses happy with low expectation has almost been a strategy.

Moyes has West Ham level on points with Everton and is only one place above us by virtue of one goal (GD).

He flopped massively at United. Embarrassed himself in Spain. Got Sunderland relegated and there is a good chance he might get relieved of his West Ham duties for the second time.

I can't personally get my head around how he can be the answer to our immediate problems if we decide to change manager.

Yes the European ban effected Everton abd the timing was dreadful for our best team since "Adam was a lad". But why did the club go into demise as the ban effected everyone. Surely it wasn't all about Kendal leaving and I was impressed at the signings that Harvey made. Did we hang onto Sharp and Nev too long? Was enough spent on new playing staff? Well Cottee cost a lot but his signing was a success.

Appreciate any information.

How I wish.
How I wish they were'nt here

The European ban still hurts deeply and impacted us more than any club at the time. It definitely soured my relationship with the cousins. But apparently if we mention it, we're considered bitter. I don't swear often, but fuck off and carry on with your airbrushing of history is my general sentiment. One of the best teams in Europe of the time denied the opportunity to compete in the premier UEFA competition having already won a European trophy. Because of them.

But, the deeper lying problem is that as English champions for the second time in 3 years, narrowly missing out on a 3 in a row achievement, we failed to plan and capitalise on the position we were in.

All English clubs wrongly suffered from the 5 year European ban. That should only have applied to the perpetrators alone in my view. But it didn't stop the likes of United, Arsenal and Liverpool thinking ahead and planning for the future. Even Chelsea, a pretty average club at the time were thinking ahead. Newcastle as well and Villa started the redevelopment of their stadiums. Okay, the latter 2 have had their moments and time down under, but as clubs they are established names and it's looking good for Newcastle right now.

We can blame that ban all we want and I don't for one minute consider that it didn't play a part. But we stood still as a club. We won the league and signed Ian Wilson and the board seemingly thought we'd be okay because of our history. Scrap that song by the way. It's used by Celtic and Tottenham anyway.

We will finally move to a new stadium but with a bit of vision and realising who we are, could have moved 30 years ago or even redeveloped Goodison in the same way that Tottenham have done at White Hart Lane.

I don't like being negative, but it really hurst me to see how this club has been run. Maybe I'm partly to blame for that for following blindly and trying to stay optimistic. Sadly, that won't stop or change. They've got me whether they like it or not and I'm getting ready for the weekend.

So not much information there Joe, just a ramble and an opinion.

We were a complete shambles in the boardroom even back then. HK's success was in spite of that. not because of it.

We fell from grace when a few of our better players left to play in Europe. Colin Harvey signed what seemed to be the best available to replace them.

Pat Nevin was a good player, but he was never going to replace Tricky Trev.

Tony Cottee was the best striker available, but he was never as good as Sharp or Lineker.

Neill McDonald wasnt a bad player, but he was no Gary Stevens.

Colin Harvey had rotten luck with injuries and although in many peoples eyes, he was our best ever player. It has to be accepted that he was never as comfortable managing the players as he was coaching them.

When Sky and the premier league came along, Tory boy Carter and the rest of the board dwelled at the starting blocks as other clubs disappeared into the distance.

To stick with Tony A`s theme. No one told us when to run. We missed the starting gun

It comes as no surprise that Villa and Wolves who replaced their managers prior to the World Cup starting and allowing them 6 weeks to work with the majority of their is starting to reap rewards. Villa sacked Gerrard despite him having won the league with Rangers and like Frank having a stellar playing career, but they appointed Emery who is experienced and has a good track record. Same with Wolves appointed an experienced manager in Lopategui ( sorry about the spelling). I believe we should have done something similar and would have maybe had a bigger pool of managers to choose from. I think if we beat Southampton which I hope we do with Frank in charge, then irrespective what results happen after that sacking Frank will no longer be an option and also the Jan window will have only days left, so no chance of a new manager buying a couple of players to try and turn things around.

I have no faith that we can avoid the drop if we stick with Frank, he has had money to spend unlike his predecessor and our best player on his day is 1 of Benítez's signings. I can think of an Everton manager who has steered the club into the bottom 3 and is still in his job.

Darren and Danny have covered many of the reasons why we never recovered from being banned from Europe, not by UEFA but by our own Prime minister who unilaterally took this decision. But for me our biggest mistake was not getting a guarantee that when the ban was lifted we were 1 of the nominated teams to compete in the Champions league irrespective of our league position. Then we could have had the added bonus of offering Champions league football to prospective new players, and we know how much players want Champions league football.

Going back to why that team became less of a threat was both Trevor and Gary Stevens wanted to test themselves in the Champions league and at that time Rangers could offer them that and match the salaries they were getting at Everton. Howard also wanted to try his luck elsewhere and you couldn't blame him, and that left Colin Harvey in charge. For me Colin was the best coach this club has ever had, his day to day involvement on the training ground working with and improving the players was his strength and not the management side of the job. I will never ever forgive Southall his disgraceful behaviour of not going off the pitch at half time instead just sat with his back to the goalpost. Colin was going through a rough patch and didn't need that reaction from still at thet time the Worlds best goalkeeper. Funny when you look at the position of our team now and to think as well as being a great manager, a great coach, Colin was sacked and I think we were 6th in the league when he was sacked. Just highlights how much standards have dropped..

Despite being just a kid at the time I still remember feeling that something bad was going to happen to Everton and despite some “good times” we've never really recovered from the dark days of the early 1970's.

Not recovered since early 70s. Really?

84 to 89, 6 cup finals, 2 titles, 1 FA Cup and 1 Euro trophy.

Sounds like a recovery to me!

Real demise has been since start of Premier League and made worse under Kenwright.

….Always a sad day when we're not in the fourth round draw.

Plus we also don't get the decisions seen last night v Wolves.

Oh dear what have we become!

We are cursed - cursed I say - bloody fucking cursed.

It's coming up to 28 years without a trophy - Kenwright is a magician, who has made a lot of people believe - that Everton have never really existed to win.

We could have become a Leeds, a Blackburn or a Forest - Be thankful for Our Saviour - the man who never took a penny - but became a multi, multi, multi millionaire.

Don't blame it on the good times - just blame it on the bogeyman.

OH DEAR WHAT HAVE WE BECOME.

Through the fish-eyed lens of tear strained eyes
I can barely define the shape of this moment in time
but far from flying high in clear BLUE skies
I'm spiralling down to the hole in the ground where I hide

We need to find hope from somewhere Darren, before the disastrous reign of Bill Kenwright, leaves us with one final humongous Final Cut

It probably was not the best thing he could've done, but Nevs never been one for mincing his words...and he was right.

He saw it way back then - its worse now

Edit: Colin @349; The 1970 team wasn't broken up - it fell apart.

Post world Cup fatigue? Serious drop off in 'form'...West?

A steady (over 3 or 4 seasons) crop of long term injuries starting with Labone.

Then add in Cattericks Increasing average transfers in and his failing health.

There is a good case to be made that his last decent signing was Kendall in 1967

Anyway, all under the bridge now.

Complacency at board level was and has always been our major problem, because if the club needed to bolster the squad they only had to ask Sir John and providing he was satisfied, he'd make the loans that the club required. Although even back then we had to sell to buy, for example Steve McMahon was sold to raise the money to purchase Trevor Steven and there were times when Everton FC had to get players on loan, to fill gaps in the squad. I'm not certain but I don't remember whether our peers at the time were as involved in taking players on loan.

When Everton won the FA Cup in 1984, the players wanted their just rewards and some I seem to remember, perhaps Southall and Sharp, were seriously contemplating putting in transfer requests, if the club didn't pay them what they thought they were worth. Kendall had to persuade the board to increase the wages for some players and the rest is history.

From certain perspectives Kenwright et al have only carried on the traditions of the club, unfortunately those traditions aren't very useful in this modern era, and even though Moshiri pumped in the funds to help move us forward, we've found that the administrative and managerial foundations of the club are as Ian Wright described it "Built on Sand" which rather worryingly is what the new stadium is built on?

I didn't agree with what Southall did against Leeds, on the opening day of the season Brian, but looking back his head was gone, because he knew we had replaced some of our best players, with average players, and his team was rapidly going backwards.

Leeds

1. The value of BKs shares in TBH at the time of purchase was £7 million

2. The money BK raised on his mortgage was £1 million (50% of the value). However this was two years BEFORE he bought his shares in the Club.

What IS well documented is where BK got the £7 million from to purchase his shareholding.

The only things documented about how BK rescued us from PJ at great personal risk to himself has come from BK himself but the facts don't support this.

Eric (372), Chris isn't interested in the truth and he will continue to defend the indefensible.

I can honestly say that this was not my intention; I merely wanted to put forward some positive points regarding Bill's involvement in the running of the club as a director and chairman.

I will certainly acknowledge the fact that the events of recent years have seen the club's fortunes go downhill dramatically. However, how much of this decline is attributable directly to Bill himself? How much is fault of his co-directors along with the majority shareholder is, I feel, very much a moot point. Surely collective responsibility must be taken into account here?

In answer to

Eric #333 & #372

(i) I will have to defer to you Eric on the value of Kenwright's shares in True Blue [Holdings] Ltd – I have no information on this point.

(ii) I am surprised that you are able to quantify the actual amount of the mortgage which Kenwright took out on his property as this information is not normally a matter of public record.

A check on the Land Registry Records will provide the identity of the mortgagee but not the amount of the loan provided by that lending institution to the mortgagor. Similarly, the value of the property against which the loan is secured is not normally a matter of public information.

Dave #373,

I must refute your assertion that I am not interested in the truth. If I have doubts about the veracity of a statement made by someone, I can assure you that I would never attempt to support or defend that person.

I simply believe in being even-handed when assessing the criticism being directed at someone, in this case, Bill Kenwright.

Nick #336,

It was not my intention to make a fatuous comment about Bill Kenwright as the club's situation is far too precarious for that.

I am surprised that you say that Peter Johnson left the club in a solid financial position. My understanding is that the club was forced to sell Duncan Ferguson, without Walter Smith's knowledge, to raise a purported ٦ million to stave off a financial crisis.

Danny O'Neill #339,

I totally agree with you about the dearth of trophies over the last 30 years and that this is totally unacceptable. Additionally, I fully accept your comments that we have become conditioned to a lack of expectation by the Directors and senior management.

We are in a position though, even with the involvement of the majority shareholder and previously with the individual who it is claimed was acting in concert with him, we just cannot compete, notwithstanding the fact that player recruitment, in the main, has been pretty abysmal at unsustainable cost. We need the involvement of much wealthier individuals if we are to compete.

As I said, I hope very much that Frank can turn things around but, if he is dismissed, my suggestion of David Moyes as a possible replacement should have been qualified with by the words "on a relatively short term basis".

His record since leaving Goodison has been very patchy, I must admit, but he was able to get some decent players in for us at bargain basement prices which is, I'm afraid, where we are currently, pretty much the paupers.

Looking further ahead, as I said, I would favour Steven Schumacher who is doing an excellent job at Plymouth Argyle.

Terry Curran whip-around was before my time so I have to ask was this what it seems? Someone passing a cap around the stadium and people just throwing in a fiver?

1. It is easy to calculate: number of shares X cost of shares. It's well documented to use your terminology, and also well documented that Bill Kenwright got the money from Anita Gregg, his business partner's wife.

2. The information was posted some years ago by a bloke called Watched Toffee. House valuations are easy to find, check Zoopla for instance.