Everton have no immediate plans to can Lampard

04/01/2023 373comments  |  Jump to last

Everton are expected to stick with Frank Lampard for the time being, with the current incumbent of the Goodison "hot seat" scheduled to take the pre-match press conference ahead of the FA Cup tie against Manchester United as planned.

The thrashing by Brighton on Tuesday night was alarming but despite speculation that Lampard's position was under serious threat – The Telegraph suggest that there is "a growing belief he is fighting a losing battle to keep his job" – he remains in his post and will lead the Blues out at Old Trafford on Friday night.

Lampard reportedly held talks with Director of Football, Kevin Thelwell, at Finch Farm today and the club's Chief Executive Officer, Denise Barrett-Baxendale, also spoke with him during a pre-planned visit to the training ground, with the hierarchy not thought to be considering an imminent sacking.

Everton, who haven't won a game since confidently despatching Crystal Palace on 22 October, slipped into the relegation zone this evening following Nottingham Forest's win at bottom club Southampton but the next three fixtures are pivotal for both Lampard and, most likely, the club's ability to avoid the drop this season.

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Paul Joyce of The Times writes that Lampard will need a positive result in the cup tie on Friday to "imbue confidence" among the Board in his ability to take Everton forward. 

The Toffees are tipped to be dumped out of the Cup by United and then face Saints and fellow strugglers West Ham Utd at the London Stadium, all while the January transfer window slips by without any concrete signs of incoming transfers to bolster an attack that has scored just 14 goals in 18 games.

Everton's fans turned on the club’s owner and Board of Directors as they witnessed an astonishing collapse in the second half against Brighton when the Seagulls scored three goals in just six minutes. Lampard and his team were loudly booed off at half-time and at the final whistle, with chants of “sack the board” then ringing out inside the Grand Old Lady.

The Telegraph's report claims that "no assurances" have been given over Lampard's future "amid suggestions Everton have already had possible replacements pushed at them" while the Daily Mail's Dominic King indicates that Sean Dyche and Roberto Martinez would be the early favourites for the role should the current boss be sacked in the coming days.


Reader Comments (373)

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Derek Taylor
1 Posted 04/01/2023 at 13:15:19
All these pleas to 'sack the Board' are a waste of breath.

The Club is a limited company and only its shareholders have any say in its governance. Given that the biggest holding by far is that of Moshiri (or his nominees), only his decision about Everton's immediate future has any bearing.

In reality, I bet – sanctions or not – that he still answers to his former Russian partner and ultimately any decision 'to hold or fold' will really be made far away from Liverpool 4. So why waste your energy on useless protests?

Dave Abrahams
2 Posted 04/01/2023 at 13:21:06
I don't know the ins and outs of Lampard's contract but I think whoever is in charge of this madhouse would be wise to put Lampard and his gang of useless coaches on gardening leave before the day is out.

Then pay whatever they are entitled to month by month until they are paid up – in fact miss a month now and again keep them waiting like we've been kept waiting for wins every month.

Barry Rathbone
3 Posted 04/01/2023 at 13:24:51

Well said I've always thought "sack the board" must be the most facile chant ever.

Bill Gall
4 Posted 04/01/2023 at 13:34:07

I have been calling for Moshiri to fire Bill Kenwright for a couple of months, him being the outright owner of Everton FC as the majority shareholder with over 94% of shares.

This continual "Fire Kenwright", "Sack the Board" is okay for the supporters to vent their feelings but I doubt if Moshiri reads ToffeeWeb.

There must be some way that this new group of representatives of the supporters can get a meeting with Moshiri to outline the feelings of the supporters and not just have them complain to the Board who they want replaced.

Phillip Warrington
5 Posted 04/01/2023 at 19:18:40
For Christ's sake, why can't the Everton board see the obvious? Frank is not a Premier League manager. His tactics are bad as well as his team selections, he can't react to other teams' tactics, and his training methods are not improving any player at Everton.

He has become delusional in his post-game remarks, how can he say, but for player mistakes, we were in the game against Brighton? His record is worse than Benitez's and our football is worse and yet we blame everything except for the person who sets out training, tactics, recruitment, team formation and playing style.

He has brought in 6-8 players for not far below £90M and we are worse than before and now have more players we won't be able to move on due to their wages and yet we still want to keep Frank! We deserve everything that comes our way.

Mike Corcoran
6 Posted 04/01/2023 at 19:45:34
Sure the chant was “Feck, We’re Bored”😁
Pat Kelly
7 Posted 04/01/2023 at 20:32:31
"The thrashing by Brighton at Goodison Park on Tuesday night came as a shock."

Seriously? They mustn't have been watching all season.

Peter Hodgson
8 Posted 04/01/2023 at 20:33:45
Never mind not sacking Lampard yet – start by sacking the Board and, if he doesn't shape up within a reasonable time frame, ie, by winning more matches than he loses, re-evaluate his position then. But order taxis for Kenwright and his cronies now.
Andy Peers
9 Posted 04/01/2023 at 20:49:58
We will be 19th after today.
Dave Abrahams
10 Posted 04/01/2023 at 20:52:27
Phillip (1),

It's obvious why the board can't see the obvious, it's because they haven't got a bleedin' clue about football and the only one who has got a clue, Graeme Sharp, only sees what the Chairman sees or says what the Chairman tells him to say.

He is just a well-paid puppet, as is Mrs Barrett-Baxendale, and Ingles is there because she brought him into the cosy little clique.

Nick Page
11 Posted 04/01/2023 at 20:57:29
Can we run a double TW poll please:

Sack Frank
Sack The Board


Brian Murray
12 Posted 04/01/2023 at 21:00:12
According to Twitter, Grant and Denise are at Finch Farm now. Press there as well. Please pray for Kenright's resignation or ousting.
Bill Fairfield
13 Posted 04/01/2023 at 21:00:42
Sack Lampard? Then the same clowns choose another dud.

Groundhog Day?

14 Posted 04/01/2023 at 21:07:51
Bill to announce his new West End show, The Moshiri Follies?
Tony Everan
15 Posted 04/01/2023 at 21:13:50
Absolute joke if there's any truth in this.

Were they not watching the team that played Fulham, Leicester, Bournemouth B team and Bournemouth A? We were second-best by some distance. Miles off the pace of being anywhere near competitive against these so-called smaller clubs.

The forthcoming games! Wolves and Brighton at home were the forthcoming games. The crucial ones Frank had 7 weeks to prepare for.

It is incredible that they are kicking the can down the road whilst the club is in one of its worst positions in 72 years.

The board are completely and utterly clueless in all things football.

Nick Page
16 Posted 04/01/2023 at 21:15:45

Bill's put together a consortium of Philip Greene, Tesco's, Bill Gates and Uncle Cyril to buy out Farhad. He's currently serving Betty's hotpot to the huddled masses before anointing himself Emporer Eternal of Everton FC.

Kieran Kinsella
17 Posted 04/01/2023 at 21:30:33
8 just resigned?
Dave Williams
18 Posted 04/01/2023 at 21:39:42
Second from bottom now. How much worse can we get?

Nero fiddling while Rome burns!

19 Posted 04/01/2023 at 21:40:00
Gary Johnson
20 Posted 04/01/2023 at 21:41:13
Today has been as sickening as the Burnley defeat last year.

I'm getting to the point now where I think going down will actually help us. The stadium cannot be used for anything else and the red shite have their own with plenty of investment. M&S arena means no point converting to concerts. Moshiri will have to cut loses and walk, hopefully leaving investor to come in and cover debts only.

It cannot get more miserable than this lot now. Standing watching the formally bankrupt Everton start back from the bottom, like Rangers did, will have more hope in 10 years than Bill has given us in 30. He has destroyed this club already.

Tony Abrahams
21 Posted 04/01/2023 at 21:44:17
But he’s only ever had the club’s best interests at heart.
Nick Page
22 Posted 04/01/2023 at 21:46:18
Can't wait ‘til we do a sale and leaseback of the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock to raise funds for the Moyesiah on his return – just so he can take a fecking teaspoon to a gunfight.
Tony Abrahams
23 Posted 04/01/2023 at 21:52:59
A big teaspoon to put loads of glucose in everyone's drink might suddenly see Everton finally playing with “real energy”.

My head is banging now so I'm going to bed to dream about throwing our Chairman in the Mersey.

Mike Price
24 Posted 04/01/2023 at 21:54:05
It's shocking that he's still in a job. We deserve what we get, people blaming our incompetent, useless board is obvious, but the fact that Lampard is utterly and completely out of his depth is also obvious.

I'm not getting his free pass here, or is it just because he talks a good game and is likeable? When he's back home in his luxury London lifestyle in a few weeks, we'll be a joke footnote to him.

Paul Hewitt
25 Posted 04/01/2023 at 22:04:06

What do you mean "8 just resigned"?

Anthony Hawkins
26 Posted 04/01/2023 at 22:06:42
We have no striker to score goals. We have no confidence to attack the opposition and actively encourage them onto us in our half. 5 at the back screams "Defend, defend, defend!" One up front at home screams "We don't think we have enough to cope and would rather nick a goal" – at home!

Problem is, the next manager inherits the same squad and faces exactly the same squad dilemma. Unless we buy in this window we will go down.

Stuart Sharp
27 Posted 04/01/2023 at 22:09:23
We're in the relegation zone on goal difference (making last night's score even worse). But we are two points off 13th and haven't yet played half the season.

On the one hand, plenty of time for things to change. On the other, form and confidence are rock bottom. Waiting until after the Southampton game (and possibly the West Ham game) seems a huge risk.

Mind you, I'm not thrilled by any of the likely replacements, and of course we all know our problems run deeper than the manager. All-in-all, I don't even know what to wish for anymore.

I left Goodison feeling empty rather than angry last night. Hard to believe there is a positive outcome on the cards... I will just have to hope for a miracle.

Tom Bowers
28 Posted 04/01/2023 at 22:10:23
It's all very grim yet again.

As if the Wolves game wasn't hard to digest, we get served up with that trash yesterday. I would have hoped at least the defense may have performed half-decent but maybe they are fed up with the guys ahead of them on the pitch. Lampard cannot do anything with this bunch and he has to take some blame.

A year ago, I was screaming for Everton to send quite a few packing, and they did, but the replacements have been unsatisfactory most of the time.

The obvious faux pas was the selling of Richarlison – that has never been addressed properly – and here we are a year later struggling to show anything up front.

The midfield is slow by comparison to other clubs and they are also woeful at keeping good possession. Lampard has never really changed his approach to the game. He has Everton playing open football — Wide Open!!! — and with this squad, it has been near suicidal.

We need to concentrate on a defensive setup, even if it is boring, but a desperate situation calls for desperate measures. We just don't have the attacking players to try and play this system. Gray is the only really quick player we have at the moment but is wasted as a front man with Calvert-Lewin.

Sadly, Lampard is likely to be released after the next couple of games, if not sooner, and he will probably do well down the line with a club that will spend some money and he has more experience under his belt.

Hard to see who Everton will get that can turn things around unless of course new blood is introduced on the field.

David McMullen
29 Posted 04/01/2023 at 22:32:18
It makes sense them not sacking Lampard right now. Who can we get in?

Lampard will know he's on borrowed time. Everton won't have clue and will probably only be drawing up their list now. Let's see. Moyes? Martinez? Allardyce?

Basically they only react when it's absolutely necessary.

Joseph Terrence
30 Posted 04/01/2023 at 22:38:02
It's a shit squad and it'd be hard for any manager to get quality out of this group.
Simon Dalzell
31 Posted 04/01/2023 at 22:43:29
Of course the board is incompetent and many players are not good enough, but Lampard is clueless. Tactics, team selection, motivation skills, etc. He obviously hasn't got it.

The crunch question: Is he getting the best out of what he's been given? Nowhere near!! He has lost the players, judging by the way they were strolling on Tuesday.

Nigel Munford
32 Posted 04/01/2023 at 22:43:51
It's been a shit squad for years and 12 managers couldn't get a tune out of any of them.
Matt Taylor
33 Posted 04/01/2023 at 22:46:27
The Board are paralysed with indecision now. Too scared to twist, so they'll stick with him until it's too toxic and their own jobs are on the line. Only then would he be for the chop.

We all know he should have gone before the World Cup. It was highlighted perfectly by many posters – 6 weeks to figure out how to beat the mighty Wolverhampton Wanderers and Brighton. Nothing changed.

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. That's Frank Lampard's Everton for you.

Mike Price
34 Posted 04/01/2023 at 23:04:06
No point saying you can't possibly sack another manager just because of our history of sacking managers; if he's not good enough, he's not fucking good enough. Previous mistakes don't mean you should persist with another mistake.

He hasn't got a clue, he can't manage multi-millionaire unmotivated men, he's out of his depth as a manager.

He talks a good game, like lots of us do, but he can't manage this limited squad of players to make us competitive. A good manager makes the most of what's available to him, Lampard can't do that.

Mark Ryan
35 Posted 04/01/2023 at 23:17:17
I don't subscribe to the view that no manager could get a tune out of this shower. Lampard is proving himself to be naive in the extreme, sadly. I say 'sadly' because he means well.

Rafa was the wrong fit and the players knew we the fans didn't want him and so downed tools. Ancelotti ran when the cash ran out – but would have improved us had he stayed 100% – but he fucked off when he realised his gravy train had run dry.

We need to let Frank go and say 'Thanks but you are not up to it." We need to get a young proven manager and this slide can be stopped. Get Tuchel or Pochettino. Either would get us back on track.

But we have to sack off this idea that Frank has reiterated time and time again that Calvert-Lewin is so important to this team. He's not, he's bang average. Get a striker in and get Tuchel or get Pochettino... or we are fucked.

Ian Pilkington
36 Posted 04/01/2023 at 23:23:23
After last night's debacle, Frank deserves to be sacked but the thought of either Kenwright or Moshiri selecting a successor is too dreadful to contemplate.

The immediate priority is for Moshiri to cut his losses, sell the club, and rid us of the egoistical charlatan who has ruined our club over the last 22 years.

Colin Malone
37 Posted 04/01/2023 at 23:23:28
For fuck's sake, there is no reason why he is still at the club.

Worst manager, ever.

George Stuart
38 Posted 04/01/2023 at 23:39:43
I like Frank. I really like him. He's a nice guy with an impeccable playing record.

But I don't know if it is him or the players. I'm thinking it is at least 80% the players. At least. But he should be getting more out of these guys.

Sadly, I think it is time for a new manager reboot. Someone, I have no idea who, who can bring two good players with them and re-energise the changing room. Jees… I don't know.

And yes, the root cause is an inept board. They pissed half a billion pounds up the wall. No easy task.

James Stewart
39 Posted 04/01/2023 at 23:52:09
Wasting time. Just do it!

Obvious how this ends.

Ed Prytherch
40 Posted 04/01/2023 at 00:00:30
We have to sell players before we can buy due to profit and loss rules but paying off Lampard and staff comes out of the same pot.

I don't see it happening.

Colin Malone
41 Posted 05/01/2023 at 00:29:54
Just looking at Wayne Rooney's record at DC Utd since 22 August:

Lost. 1-0
Lost. 0-6
Lost. 3-2
Won. 1-2
Drew. 0-0
Drew. 0-0
Lost. 3-0
Lost. 2-3
Lost. 1-0
Lost. 2-5

Take notice, Moshiri.

Soren Moyer
42 Posted 05/01/2023 at 01:08:15
Good on the Lampard lovers fans, lol.

See you in the Championship.

Brian Wilkinson
43 Posted 05/01/2023 at 01:10:19
Frank will not go until after the Man Utd cup game, too short to bring someone in and expect to have at best two training sessions and try and pick a team for Friday.

Once the cup game is out of the way, this is the way I see it:

There are plans to bring forward the protest of remaining in the seats after the Southampton game next week, against the board.

Bill will be aware of this and will counteract it by getting rid of Frank and bringing Rooney in, to try and deflect the flak at the next home game, and try and get the few still on his side something to keep them sweet.

Anyone who knows me will know how I fought hard last season with my Enough is Enough piece I put on here, to try and unite some posters with others I knew on Facebook and other sites.

I did not have knowledge of how to go about it, but I refused to remain silent any longer on how this board has left us stagnated. We left the protest until the transfer window closed last January, a full year ago, yet we are no further forward… in fact, we are worse than last season.

The 4 goals last night were sickening, the performance sickening, but the one that left me completely numb last night was fans around me cheering on Everton, singing away. Yet when "Sack the board" rang out from all four corners of the ground, there were a good three to four near me refusing to join in the singing.

I found myself uncomfortable singing it, not because I was against it, but fellow Blues I sit next to every home game seem to be on Bill's side. I felt physically sick that those I talk to every week are still in the "Not Bill's Fault" camp.

Now with the story of Alan Stubbs coming to light, being refused tickets for speaking his mind, makes you wonder if that's the same reason we no longer see Nev, Ratters, Gray and the likes at Everton anymore. Yes, I know Nev now does not have the time with other projects he had, but it was the same years ago with Nev.

Not surprisingly, my Enough is Enough piece was met by just a few who still thought Bill was not the problem, That was their choice and even now still their choice.

How much longer can we sit there and do nothing about this current board?

Enough is enough.

Kieran Kinsella
44 Posted 05/01/2023 at 01:18:07

All that you say is reasonable and plausible but, for fuck's sake, does Kenwright honestly think Rooney, whose track record as a coach makes Lampard look like Guardiola, would a) work or b) placate the fans?

As for Lampard, I hate to admit I read a piece in The Sun just now titled Lampard to Blame. It was a misleading headline designed to provoke, which is why I bit. But the actual article was sadly IMHO spot on.

Frank is not to blame for our shambles squad and situation. But he is to blame for being stupid enough to take the job. How sad is that, that I find myself agreeing with such an assessment as an Everton fan?

People compare Kenwright with Ellis or Swales but better comparisons are Ceausescu, Hoxha, Honecker, etc – evil egotistical scum.

Brian Wilkinson
45 Posted 05/01/2023 at 01:40:43
Not for one minute, Kieran, but it is the sort of stunt Bill will pull short-term, to try and get a fellow Blue in the hot seat as soon as possible, and hope the protests quieten down for next week.

Like I have said before, Bill will do absolutely everything that benefits himself; it does not matter one bit what is best for Everton – all he is bothered about is himself and keeping hold of his train set.

Last season, we waited and dragged on the next manager for weeks, before finally naming Frank on Transfer Window Deadline Day, leaving him very little time to bring players in.

This season will be different; with all the protests ringing round, you can guarantee we will have someone in place for the Southampton game. Bill knows what is coming for that game and you can as much as say with near certainty that he will act at the weekend. Like I say, do not be too surprised if he brings Rooney back.

Even when the Fans Forum came in, I said back then, no Evertonian with an ounce of saying it how it is will be selected, and only yes-men will get on the Fans Advisory Board. When you have the likes of Danny, Rob, Dave, Tony and a few others who we all said would do a decent job on the Fans Advisory Board, there was not a chance any of them getting on it – another PR stunt by Bill.

Anyone who thinks otherwise only needs to look at the fan at the Liver Building interviewed away from the protest at Goodison the same evening, singing Bill's praises.

Fans Advisory Board, my arse.

Ernie Baywood
46 Posted 05/01/2023 at 01:47:55
If it's Rooney, it's dumb. If it's Martinez, it's madness.

So why is it still wrong to keep Lampard?

I see it like any transfer. You wouldn't just sell Calvert-Lewin due to poor form if you had no replacement. But if you had a better option, then you'd absolutely do it.

The better replacement for Lampard isn't particularly obvious to me. It's certainly not in the list of most of the names being mentioned.

If Bill, Denise, Kevin and Farhad are able to pull a rabbit out of a hat, then fair enough, let's do it. But don't do it for the sake of doing it.

Christine Foster
47 Posted 05/01/2023 at 01:51:41
I honestly believe Kenwright is at the end of the line with his train set. He cannot pull a fast one over Moshiri anymore, his credibility with media, fans and such has gone. Blame is, at last, being apportioned to where it's due, where it's always been due.

We have had top-class managers walk away, been sacked, left hanging out to dry. The atrocious management of meddling has seen a hated Benitez appointed and sacked, we have seen this chairman appoint people around him to protect his credibility – not the best for the job, but the best for Bill Kenwright.

Lampard is the latest in the line of managers who are paying the price of what went before them. It does not matter a jot if we appointed another world-class manager in his place, time is not on a manager's side but, unlike Ancelotti, Lampard doesn't have the technical nous or experience to change it.

If you really believe Ancelotti walked away because Real Madrid called him… here's a few home truths: he called them. I would call it an engineered discussion.

Unlike the arrogant Keoman (worst of the lot), and the disgraceful Benitez, Ancelotti cut and run. Lampard should do the same. He won't, because he is a proud man; he wants to make it work. I admire him for that.

I also think that's why politically Kenwright doesn't want to be seen as the hatchet man. This time, the board itself is no longer immune, no longer can they blame the manager or expect them to fall on their sword.

Moshiri has a dilemma but he can no longer sell while the club sit in the Bottom 3; he either cuts adrift Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale and backs Lampard, or hopes another manager will get him over the line.

But here's the rub. What manager, or player, who can do the business, would want to come to us?

Kieran Kinsella
48 Posted 05/01/2023 at 02:02:09

Interestingly, Phil McNulty tweeted last night pointing a finger at Bill. Various people replied “You'll be barred from Goodison” to which he replied “I'll live” but despite egging on from fans not a word from the rest of the old Echo crew O'Keeffe, King etc.

But the BBC, Sky, The Mail (not King) and The Sun all ran articles today pointing the finger at the board as opposed to just Frank. Maybe, just maybe? The worm is starting to turn?

Ernie Baywood
49 Posted 05/01/2023 at 02:03:59

I'll add that I believe Lampard will say what he needs to say (internally to the club). He wasn't popular at Chelsea for that reason.

People talk about his affinity with the fans like it's a bad thing. I want a man who will speak up. Whether that's Lampard I can't be 100% sure. But it's certainly no-one else at the club. And it won't be anyone who interviews for this job either.

I'd love to hear him putting pressure on the board to back him in the market. That would convince me he's the right man in this moment.

Dean Williams
50 Posted 05/01/2023 at 02:36:19
So fellas, I'm a regular ToffeeWeb follower but not a regular commenter. I'm not sure who the Kenwright followers as compared to non-followers are on here.

The following is a conversation I was privy too just before the collapse of the Kings Dock fiasco. I used to do personal security for somebody who was very wealthy but no longer with us.

Sitting in his house one day, chatting with him, his phone rang. His PA came in and said Bill Kenwright was on the phone, he said to put him through. He left his phone on speaker and put his finger to his lips, basically asking me to hush down.

The call was Bill Kenwright asking if Dave (let's call him Dave for now) would like to invest in Everton? Bill was looking for the £30 million or so to put into the build.

Dave said "Bill, I'm a Red and Everton have just got rid of Peter Johnson. How will Evertonians feel about another red on the board?"

Bill's reply was "It's irrelevant, if we get this ground built we can name our own price for the club and sell on."

At this point, I was purple with anger and gagging to scream down the line…

Anyway, that's True Blue Bill's real feelings towards Everton. Make of that what you will.

Kieran Kinsella
51 Posted 05/01/2023 at 02:55:48

It doesn't surprise me. Once a red, always a red.

I've posted on here before too that I know a very well-known actor (BBC lead man) who hates Kenwright because of his skinflint wheeling and dealing as a producer screwing over actors.

The Red Shite Kenwright only cares about himself and his wallet.

Derek Knox
52 Posted 05/01/2023 at 03:18:16
Dean @ 46,

You have just confirmed what I have suspected for a long, long time, I am not a Scouser born and bred but have lived in and around Liverpool for 53 years, and supported Everton from the age of 9. I know many Evertonians who I have met over the years, by going to the match etc.

We have had many a discussion about Kenwright, and when he used to relate those stories about The Boy's Pen. None of those who I know or have met who were about the same age, and regular visitors to the aforementioned Boy's Pen – not one, can or could ever remember a young Bill Kenwright being amongst them.

Probably because he was at Anfield. Furthermore, he never came from a poor background either as he often tries to make out. I had a girlfriend some time ago who used to visit Kenwright's mother regularly, and they lived in a massive house in Mossley Hill/Allerton.

George Stuart
53 Posted 05/01/2023 at 03:24:05
I've just seen Sean Dyche proposed. Wayne too (2 wins all season for Wayne in the US. Fairytale not happening).

Dyche eh? If it isn't spherical and it's on the pitch, kick it.

Now, don't go off immediately but how about Sam Allardyce??
Narh. Only kidding. I'd rather hand-saw off both feet.

You've got to laugh. Or not.

Dean Williams
54 Posted 05/01/2023 at 03:29:23
Derek @48.

I've held that chat for a long time.

Absolute gobshite is our Bill.

Derek Knox
55 Posted 05/01/2023 at 03:34:19
Maybe a long shot, but I believe Pochettino is looking to get back into management in England. Now whether he would consider taking on a basket case and working with a shithouse Board is probably pie in the sky.

I live in hope though, as he could, I believe, get us back to where we belong. He has the experience and is a good manager and tactician.

Brian Wilkinson
56 Posted 05/01/2023 at 03:44:56
Good shout, Derek,

I always liked him; he would have to be off his head to walk into the hot seat though.

Matt Smith
57 Posted 05/01/2023 at 03:58:13
I am telling you, this team has a strange knack of being able to get a result against good teams.

Watch them come out and almost get a result against Man Utd, just to confuse the situation.

Sean Roe
58 Posted 05/01/2023 at 05:30:08
Lampard and Benitez have very similar records.

Benitez:- '' Shit manager, red gobshite, get out of our club.''
Lampard:- '' He gets us, it's not his fault he inherited it, we must give him time.''

Madness in my opinion. Lampard should already be gone and, the longer we keep hold of him, the further we sink.

Ernie Baywood
59 Posted 05/01/2023 at 05:36:51
Amazing what people will believe if it suits them.

And I say that without any commentary on Kenwright himself.

Matt Traynor
60 Posted 05/01/2023 at 05:40:01
I don't think any manager with any career aspiration will take on the Everton role now.

I'm working in the Middle East, so I get to read all sorts of opinion from those outside the Everton bubble. Neutral commentators (ie, no connection to Liverpool FC) describe the club as "dysfunctional".

And I think that's the rub. We have an owner who, by his own admission, delegates the operation of the club to others, and it seems rudderless. Whoever is in the hot seat is set up to fail.

By all means sack Frank, but that also means getting rid of his extensive backroom team he brought in, and that's going to cost.

And then who's the next one to come in? No-one of the calibre of Pochettino would consider it. The last "decent" manager we had pissed off sharpish as soon as a big club came calling.

On the drive home last night, Google directed me to an op-ed by a West Ham site, predicting that the clubs would end up doing a sack-swap – Moyes returns to us and "prodigal son (now forgiven)" Frank goes back to his roots…

And I actually thought Moyes wouldn't be the worst appointment we could make – that's how desperately in the shit we are.

Kieran Kinsella
61 Posted 05/01/2023 at 05:46:59

There are no Frank lovers – just people saying he's not to blame. But there are Kenwright acolytes – Darren, Ian, Terry etc.

Darren Hind
62 Posted 05/01/2023 at 06:08:14
"Kenwright Acolytes"

I don't think I have ever read anything more moronic on this site. A bit like being called a Tory by Johnson.

Darryl Ritchie
63 Posted 05/01/2023 at 06:32:15
I think the powers that be realize that Lampard has to go, but who do they replace him with?

Martínez? Been there! Done that!
Moyes? (See Martínez.)
Rooney? Good player, but hardly any chops as a manager. (See Lampard)
Dyche? Moyes… take 2
Pochettino? He'd be a fool to come anywhere near us.

So who? It's a serious question… Who?

Brian Murray
64 Posted 05/01/2023 at 06:53:09

Anyone's a risk with that squad but I'd go for Kompany or the Frank at Brentford. I reckon we could end up with Dyche.

Tony Everan
65 Posted 05/01/2023 at 06:55:05
Frank is gone, I think; as Brian has said earlier it will happen at the weekend. They are buying time now whilst they do their sounding out on who they can get in.

With regards the new tenuous rumours about Pochettino wanting to return to England, I think he would have been very interested in coming if there was some decent money to spend. In our current state, I don't think he will want to take it on.

But you never know, we are a great club with the most passionate support in the country. He will be worshipped if he can turn this club around and lead us to the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock as an organised, competitive football club.

With regards Rooney, he needs to prove himself as a manager first; he's not done anywhere near enough to convince he's ready for the Everton job.

Gary Johnson
66 Posted 05/01/2023 at 07:14:31
Frank's not to blame for:

- leaving a striker till 15% through the season, then signing a 5ft-tall one to play as a lone no 9
- signing two aged and slow centre-backs
- continuing to play 2 wingers capable of maybe 10 between them in a front 3.
- running out Doucoure with the only backup options being Davies.
- playing Davies over Price after Price was best player on tour.
- allowing all 3 midfielders to bomb up together
- playing a £35M man in 3 different places to work out what he does.
- rushing Calvert-Lewin back too soon.
- loaning out all the promising youngsters and bringing through none.

The list goes on and on…

Terry Farrell
67 Posted 05/01/2023 at 07:20:02
Stick with Frank.

A manager needs time to build a successful team.

Robert Tressell
68 Posted 05/01/2023 at 07:33:47
Brian @60,

Neither Thomas Frank nor Vincent Kompany will be remotely interested in replacing Lampard.

It's also really important to understand that Brentford's success – like that of Brighton under Potter – is not really down to the manager.

It's down to a very carefully mapped out club strategy which the manager is part of. You can't take someone like Thomas Frank out of that environment and expect him to succeed at Everton.

Managers fail at Everton because everything about the club at (non-existent) strategic level is geared up for failure.

Brian Murray
69 Posted 05/01/2023 at 07:38:26

Yes, I know the real reason for our decline. Preaching to the converted, brother.

Gary Johnson
70 Posted 05/01/2023 at 07:40:21

A good manager needs time to grow a team, a bad manager needs little time to take it backwards.

There isn't one thing he's improved in an entire year.

Frank Fearns
71 Posted 05/01/2023 at 07:48:34
Christine @47, final paragraph – yes indeed.

Just who? They'd have to be bonkers or skint – probably both.

Happy to be proved wrong though.

Gary Johnson
72 Posted 05/01/2023 at 07:50:44
Bring the new manager in now with half a season and what's left of the window = chance to survive.

Bring one in at the end of January after losing points to Southampton and West Ham = too far to get back.

Decisions this weekend will affect the lives of us and our kids for decades.

Ian Hollingworth
73 Posted 05/01/2023 at 07:57:16
Dean @46,

Thank you for more real proof of what many already think that Kenwright is more concerned about his bank balance than Everton FC.

We all know Frank goes after Man Utd, as Bill and Co will want to deflect protests away from them at the next home game.

Ian Hollingworth
74 Posted 05/01/2023 at 07:58:58
Robert @64,

I agree but there are many Blues who don't agree.

Frank Sheppard
75 Posted 05/01/2023 at 08:26:34
Stick with Frank. No reason to think a new manager would create a bounce of form.

He inherited a very poor squad with a “Don't know how to win” mentality — as famously said by Dyche last season when they beat us.

Robert Tressell
76 Posted 05/01/2023 at 08:33:00
Ian, the bookies seem to agree too.

Understandably, it is hard for many to accept that Everton have fallen so far behind. I get the impression many still believe a 'decent manager' could take a punt on some wise old crocks like Reid and Gray, promote a few kids from the youth team and get back to the top table.

The truth is that we are financially miles behind at least 7 clubs – and our persistent non strategy under Moshiri has seen us easily overtaken by many others – including minnows like Brentford and Brighton. Burnley have now switched their strategy to player development and Kompany is reaping the rewards.

This is not the 1980s. The Premier League is anti-competitive at the top and the next tier down comprises clubs that have innovated to get where they are.

If we stay up, we can do it – but the whole approach of the club needs to switch to low-cost recruitment (foreign markets and talented youth) and academy player development (including recruitment for the academy).

If we don't do that we'll be back here again next season wondering why the next new manager is so crap.

Danny Baily
77 Posted 05/01/2023 at 08:36:12
Look at the fixtures. Do the maths. We have already been relegated on the balance of probability.
Roger Helm
78 Posted 05/01/2023 at 08:36:52
In the last 10 years, we have tried umpteen managers and DoFs and spent half a billion on players, most of whom seem to deteriorate when they get here.

The fundamental problem is that the club itself is dysfunctional and very badly run and I don't see any change until Moshiri finds a buyer, and that buyer makes a clean sweep of the board, Bill's gang and everything else rotten about the club.

Until then, I think we just have to put up with it. I just hope it happens sooner rather than later, before we turn into Sunderland or Sheffield Wednesday.

Sean Kelly
79 Posted 05/01/2023 at 09:00:48
“Everton have no immediate plan.”

That's bloody obvious nor do they have any mid-term or long-term plans. Ship without a captain or a rudder heading for the rocks.

Bill Griffiths
80 Posted 05/01/2023 at 09:09:35
As Roger(#74) and many others have said whoever we get in will be fighting a lost cause with our basket case of a club.
I can see the arguments from both sides as to sack Frank or back home in the window but where until the Wolves game I was for keeping him, I am now of the opinion he has shown himself to be clueless regarding team selection, set and tactics so he should go.
Who to get inhis place? Personally I don't think any top or half decent manager would do any better as things stand. I feel that in the short term we need someone like Sean Dyche who has experience of keeping a club up on limited resources.
I would personally go for Big Dunc in the short term I know many will disagree but personally I think he would be the best person to get anything from the bunch of lily-livered bunch of misfits we have on our books at present.
Hugh Jenkins
81 Posted 05/01/2023 at 09:09:40
I'm not advocating this as a solution - but as I understand it Big Dunc is still unemployed - having left to "find himself" when Frank was appointed.
I'm surprised none of his "supporters" have put him in the frame as a replacement?
Paul Hewitt
82 Posted 05/01/2023 at 09:21:02
No plans to sack lampard. Then you better get planning for the championship.
Kevin Prytherch
83 Posted 05/01/2023 at 09:27:30
Big Duncs available
Darren Hind
84 Posted 05/01/2023 at 09:31:20
So let me get this straight, Robert

Moshiri's "non strategy" of affording our last six managers around 750m is the reason we have been over taken by smaller clubs ?

Brentford who have been in the wilderness since the back end of the second world war got promoted because they are a well run club ? Nothing to do with finally finding an excellent coach. He is just lucky to be along for the ride ?

And Kompany isn't the reason for Burnleys great start. He's reaping the rewards of the clubs player development strategy ? You do realise that the "well run " Burnley only got relegated a few months back ?

I'm trying to work out if you are representing the case for the prosecution or the defence.

By naming Kompany and Frank you have put up TWO perfect examples of how the appointment of a good manager can turn around the fortunes of clubs going absolutely nowhere.

Strategic plan ????? They did not give their managers massive backing. They simply appointed good ones.

A novel idea I know, but I would love Everton to give it a whirl sometime.


Ferguson has already rescued this club from free fall. He tried to get the job and was turned down in favor of Frank and his Barra boys. That`s gone so well.

Even his biggest advocators (like me) dont expect him to pick up the poisoned chalice for a third time

Besides. All the stategic master minds who insist the manager doesnt matter in our circumstances would be up in arms if it was given to him...

Neil Lawson
85 Posted 05/01/2023 at 09:33:14
A fascinating read with my early morning cuppa. Even with varying views there is a consistency of opinion but a despondency in outlook, understandably.
There is no acceptable replacement for Lampard who would come. There will be no enthusiasm to spend serious money in this window whilst he is in post. Without ditching half the team it is impossible to see where an improvement comes from. Relegation is looming but we are naive if we think that, somehow, may be the catalyst to change and recovery. It is doom and gloom with no prospect of the clouds lifting with no-one having the nouse or courage to get a grip.
So, happy new year to us all.
Friday's game is interesting. We should never abandon our commitment to the cup. We should all remember 1995 and those wonderful fighters. It is possibly Lampard's only chance to do something different. It will be 5 at the back but he can mix it up. If he trots out the current wasters, and we all generally agree on who they are, we can start planning for the Championship. We need an injection of some enthusiastic new blood and this is his only chance. From my perspective the team sheet will speak volumes. The performance that follows may seal his fate. Another 48 hours won't hurt any more than currently.
Trevor Peers
86 Posted 05/01/2023 at 09:47:04
Disgraceful, laughable Everton no surprise there then.
Robert Tressell
87 Posted 05/01/2023 at 09:51:02
Darren, spending lots of money is not a strategy.

Spending money on a particular profile of player is a strategy, buying players from specific low cost markets is a strategy, developing young talent is a strategy, recruiting players with specific physical attributes to suit a style of play is a strategy.

Thomas Frank is doing a great job but he's not responsible for all of this - he's part of a club management that had used this strategy in Denmark with Midtylland and saw it as an opportunity to build something in England.

You can't just install him as manager at dysfunctional Everton and expect the same success.

Rob Halligan
88 Posted 05/01/2023 at 09:54:07
Derek # 48. Funny you mention about Kenwright not coming from a poor background. His family house was indeed on Mather Avenue, near to Storrsdale road, a very affluent area of Liverpool. I’m still not sure if that’s Allerton or Mossley Hill, but whatever, he was never this “Urchin” as he has us all believe.
Brian Harrison
89 Posted 05/01/2023 at 10:02:00
After last nights results we are now 2nd from bottom, and there are still some posters who say stick with Frank. Last season apart from the bottom 3 we were amongst the lowest scorers in the league, even with the contributions from Richarlison and DCL. We then lost Richarlison in June and although being last seasons leading goal scorer, Lampard sees bringing in 2 slow CBs and 4 non goal scoring midfield players. Then with days left of the window he signs Maupay another with a poor goal scoring record.

So nobody should be surprised that apart from Wolves we are the lowest goal scorers in the Premier league. And we don't look like a side who will score many goals, Frank has had 36 games to turn this around and he hasnt. Yes he seems a decent bloke but results matter and he hasnt been able to get the results. He has been backed financially as much as the rules would allow, so he can have no qualms on that score, and he has brought 8 players in, so when some posters say nobody could get a tune out of this squad lets remember Frank signed 8 of them.

The next question is who do you get, well we can rule out the likes of Tutchel or Pochettino they are far to good to be joining a team in our position, and even Vincent Kompany wouldn't look at Everton why should he when Burnley will be back in the Premier league next year. Sadly I think we will be looking at someone who is out of work as no compensation to pay, as paying Frank and his coaches off wont come cheap. And whoever we get might not be able to save us from relegation, but to leave Frank in charge means nothing will change and we will I believe get relegated if he is left in charge.

Rob Halligan
90 Posted 05/01/2023 at 10:06:42
Various ex players have been banned from Goodison for telling the truth about Kenwright, and now it seems, one or two journalists being sarcastically told you won’t get into the stadium for also telling the truth. What’s that slime ball Kenwright going to do with the fans, ban us as well and cancel our season ticket? There would probably be more away fans than home fans if that happened!!


Kevin Molloy
91 Posted 05/01/2023 at 10:09:23
I think we are about to make a big error. If Frank stays beyond the united game and is given Soton we've just missed a big opportunity to give the new guy an important game he could win. if Frank manages a win in that one (possible owing to the abject nature of soton) his departure is delayed for another month and he gets to spend whatever we have on new targets. Buckle in for the next Maupay and McNeil to role off the conveyor belt. If he doesn't win it, he will then be sacked (surely!) but then looking for a manager in mid Jan leaves us with very little time to do anything, and having missed a golden opportunity to put daylight between us and saints. We must bite the bullet after the United game.

Sadly, (for me anyway) the West Ham players are still trying for Moyes so I don't think he will become available so it will it seems be between Roberto and Dyche.

Nathan Ford
92 Posted 05/01/2023 at 10:13:47
I don't think it matters what manager we bring in now we'll be lucky to stay up with the squad we have. You can't win games if you don't score goals and as a team we've scored 14 goals in 18 games. To stand a realistic chance of staying up we need 2-3 players who know where the back of the net is and can't afford to buy any.
Andrew Clare
93 Posted 05/01/2023 at 10:21:36
Apparently the whole Brighton team cost less than Iwobi.
Someone at Everton has been making a lot of money signing average players for ridiculous fees over the past 5 years.
Are we like the car wash business in Breaking Bad? A money laundering scheme?
What an embarrassing set up we are. We are the joke of English football.
Danny O’Neill
94 Posted 05/01/2023 at 10:27:44
Robert, I agree with your views.

Yes finding the right coach is vital.

But the best of coaches would fail at Everton for the reasons you mention.

That's why we're doing our best impression of Abramovic's Chelsea, only their rotating door was for very different reasons.

By the way, I don't have anything against Dyche. I don't even know him. Not my cup of tea as a football manager, but I do respect the job he done at Burnley.

Ray Smith
95 Posted 05/01/2023 at 10:33:07
3 from 8

I’ve just been reading the Southampton equivalent of TW.
You could be reading TW as the comments etc are very similar.
Most of them are already resigned to going down.
What scares me is that a team in their position come out fighting when they have already gone in their next game!
Losing to Southampton won’t be the end of the world, but it will deepen the hole we are in.
So if Southampton are gone/going it’s 2 from 7.
I know I’m deluded but it’s better odds when trying to recover from Tuesday nights fiasco.
Blood the youngsters tomorrow in the cup (were not going to win it) and see who’s up for the fight. There’s plenty of slots available IMO, however, the same old faces will be back against Southampton!
I don’t know how, but Kenwright and his entourage have to go.
I’m not for sacking managers, and hope Frank can get something out of a dejected squad of players who need to show passion when wearing the shirt.
If Frank does go, then we are back to square one again and the trap door will open taking us into the championship with Southampton!
Leaving 1 from 6!!!

Darren Hind
96 Posted 05/01/2023 at 10:33:38

Moshiri has spent hundreds of millions on coaches to develop players, Managers to manage them, DOF's to find them, That is the same strategy as every other top club.

The difference between us and successful clubs, is that they have employed the right coaches managers and DOF's. Moshiri keeps buying pups.

There is a very clear difference to having a different strategy and making the wrong choices.

Every time we see a club have a flash-in-the-pan couple of seasons after decades in the wilderness, somebody comes along and starts taking about their "strategy". Its bollocks. Brentford right now are doing the right things. Employing the right manager. signing players (the right ones) within their means, but they will surely go the same way as the others when this little bubble burst.

You cant cite seven clubs who are doing what we are doing only on a bigger scale and then carefully select this seasons flavour of the season as examples.

Moshiri would be praised to the rooftops if the people he has hired had done the jobs he was paying them to do. He chose poorly and they took the money with the certain knowledge that they would not be held accountable by a large section of the fan base.

One thing is for certain; All those mercenary free loaders will be delighted to hear that although they were employed to come up with plans, they are exonerated..... Because there was no plans.

Brian Murray
97 Posted 05/01/2023 at 10:35:28
Andrea post 89, At least Walter white had a plan and a vision.
Paul Randall
98 Posted 05/01/2023 at 10:38:42
Roberto Martinez was sacked for finishing 5th and 12th. At the time, we thought that was unacceptable. Yes, some of the football at the time was dire, but did we give him the time and money? No, we did not.
Andrew Grey
99 Posted 05/01/2023 at 10:44:04
Ferguson for me, assisted by Southall and Stubbs!
Brian Murray
100 Posted 05/01/2023 at 10:47:15
Got a feeling the words maupay and McNeil will haunt frank the rest of what’s left of his managerial career. Still fans laud and upload the great escape v palace. It wasn’t glorious it was friggin disgusting and no lessons learnt. Ray post 9. What’s even more disgusting is I’m convinced the chairman’ would never have the decency to resign no matter what league we are in until at least he has his day in the sun opening the new stadium.Never an evertonian.
Julian Exshaw
101 Posted 05/01/2023 at 10:59:34
I commented in the LF on Tuesday that after that 4th Brighton goal we had reached the point of no return. I couldn't perceive anything being worse than that (bar relegtion of course). The club standing by Lampard at this point isn't, I imagine, out of loyalty but rather a case of having no money, no likely replacement or in the worst case, no idea or desire to do anything about it.
Whatever the case, these are not actions of a professionally run club with ambition and thought for those who spend good money week after week to witness this rubbish. Get it sorted now or leave it to those who can before we disappear into the quagmire of the lower divisions and eventual obscurity!
Jerome Shields
102 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:00:40
Kenwright,Barret Baxendale, and Thewell know they are in the firing line with only Lampard, between them and all out attack, so he will be kept on.It will make little difference If he goes, since they will still be their.Kenwright and Baxedale being series underachieving regarding provision on the Football side and Thewell underperforming in squad preparation, recruitment planning and transfer player assessements.

The main problem seems to be the preparation of the squad, which after their exertions against Man City, where not up to the standards expected of a Premier League Club in regard to fitness.This has been a repetitive occurrence for years.They use to be able to get two results and a loss,now it is one result and a loss if we are lucky ,which is relegation form.

Whilst Lampard would have been better to have went all out defence,this should not be the only option available for a Premier League Manager.There has been a tendency for defensive players to stay deep, because they are afraid of having to defend on the turn.An inept attack allows the opposition defence to pressurised Midfield with impunity.

It obvious to the top trio that they have contributed to the above failings and eight Managers later excuses are hard to find.

Dave Abrahams
103 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:00:57
Christine (43), if Mr.Moshiri wanted to cut Kenwright and Baxindale Barrett adrift he had the perfect opportunity to do so by keeping Benitez on board, he was as good, or as you would say, as bad as Lampard.

Lampard might be a proud man but up to now has proved to be a less than effective manager, his record at Everton is worse than Benitez and on a par with Mike Walker.

He has done little this season that inspires confidence that he can improve the team or even more important save us from the drop, Tuesday night was damning evidence of his capability as a manager with the team selection and set up after the performance against City was the way to try and keep Everton in the game and earn some points, I just don’t think he has it in him to become a very good manager.

Last week on ToffeeWeb a lady observed that she has never thought Frank had a long term interest in staying on Merseyside with Everton because of the lifestyle him and his wife live, more committed to be down south.

I posted the same views months ago on Grandoldteam and believe that is the case, I don’t think it will be a hardship for Frank to lose his position at Everton.

Not having a go at you Christine you love the Blues as much as anyone following the club and give your last breath helping Everton FC to be where they would be if they were run properly by someone who had Everton’s best interests at heart instead of their own, best wishes girl as always.

P.S. I wish you were a multi billionaire, I know where you would spend some of your money and with your common sense and love of the Toffees Christine we’d have none of these bleedin’ worries.

Laurie Hartley
104 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:00:58
Apparently the shortlist is Martinez, Dyche, Rooney, or Postecoglou..

I think Postecoglou might have been a good fit a few weeks ago be, but sorting out this mess has now become a monumental ask. It will take an extremely strong willed, experienced, and football savvy character to engineer our survival.

Not many of them knocking about from what I can see.

I am beginning to succumb to the thought that our goose is cooked. Somebody convince me I am over reacting please.

Nick Page
105 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:14:50
Villa look a much better side since they canned Slippy. And Wolves also look much better. I know the players are shite and I was an advocate for keeping FF but like many have said, his times up. We need someone with experience who is a good motivator, and probably someone that can play defensive football (KITAP1 - lol). The old Holy Spirit Wolves fella is still out of a job isn’t he?
Jerome Shields
106 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:18:57

That is where Moshiri blinked.He had brought in Benitez to shake up the whole structure, instead of doing it directly by th normal channels as he should have done.The big question is why did he not directly do this.He has had a arm lengths approach from the start,and only when motivated by the need the tighten the purse strings does he get involved in a limited capacity.

Even now he has given up on that, seemingly happy the Premier League Profitability and Sustainability are doing that for him.They are even giving leeway, beyond the Rules, giving those at Everton involved in negotiations more power.Sanctions possibly raising their ugly head keeping Moshiri in his box.

It is not only a shambles on the pitch.

Ray Smith
107 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:27:40
Laurie 100

Not sure where you got your short list from?
Only Dyche out of those would do for me.
Our goose isn’t cooked yet!, but getting pretty close.
Another 20 games to go, however, on current form our goose would be cooked.
Every team have blips, but ours is continuous. Surely things can’t get any worse!, can they???

Chris James
108 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:32:32
The problem with changing manager is who are we realistically going to get?
And how long do we give them?
Steve Brown
109 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:32:55
Who bears the blame for our current position - owner, board, DoFs, managers, players, agents, academy, recruitment, medical services, commercial department, operations, support functions?

ALL of them. If we are to get on a sustainable path then they all need to improve radically or be replaced. Since the Chairman and CEO get paid the executive compensation, let's start with them.

Here is a question I was thinking to myself. What department or individual associated has done a top quality job over the last several years? Everton's stadium development and project manager Alex Craig - because we have the proof before our eyes that the bloody thing is getting built to schedule!

Robert Tressell
110 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:34:12
Darren, sorry but that is nonsense. A club like Brentford does not get into the Premier League because it finally stumbled on a good manager. Same for Brighton.

While we patiently wait our turn to find our first decent manager since the late 1980s, other clubs are acknowledging that football finances in particular have moved on and are innovating to compete.

Look at the profile of the players Brentford are signing. Look at the development of potentially elite talent by Brighton at partner clubs in Belgium and elsewhere. Arsenal are recruiting based on a specific set of role based statistics. Leicester and Liverpool have done their own versions of this - all designed to provide a sustainable flow of talent into the first team.

Fair play to Moshiri, he spent money early on (albeit never Chelsea / City level) on the apparent presumption the club knew what it was doing. He then turned his attention to the stadium.

But the reality is that there has been no recruitment or development strategy - best exemplified by the too many cooks summer when we bought Rooney, Sigurdsson, Vlasic and Klaasen all for more or less the same position.

Lynn Maher
111 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:39:21
Steve @105. Any chance he’d be interested in the managers job?
Derek Taylor
112 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:47:09
Expect Everton to do well against Manu's reserves on Friday. This will be enough to see Frank given the rest of January to save his job. There will follow yet another failed manager to replace him. We are fecked, no mistake !
Simon Jones
113 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:47:55
Slightly off topic, but lately I've been wondering what state we'd be in had Allardyce had the second season, his contract being 18 months?

True, we hated his football and he is very much a marmite character, but I'm left wondering if he wouldn't have given us a more stable basis to go forwards?

My point being, that appointing a horrible manager won't really appeal to the fans, but perhaps some pragmatism to address the situation, both financial and footballing, that we find ourselves in wouldn't go amiss for a few seasons?

Brighton, Brentford, Norwich and Bournemouth all show that football clubs can be well run on a budget with all four establishing a far more sound financial basis than we currently have.

I'd argue that most Everton fans would rather watch the type of football Brighton and Brentford are playing than is currently served up at Goodison. The price these clubs pay is obviously the yo-yo nature of their existence in the top flight; however, I'd rather be entertained and be shite, than be shite and hate what I'm watching… orbe horrible and win.

Kevin Molloy
114 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:51:06
The key for us is getting Moshiri out of the way. I think the reason we are run so badly is that nobody is actually running it.

The last time anyone was running this club was when Moyes was here. He took over everything, and ran it very well. But since then it's just drifted.

Moshiri has no interest in the club, he's not even in the country. We were bought by them as a plaything for a gangster, a literal gangster who has been banned since the Ukraine war.

People do get a bit hysterical on here about Kenwright and his machinations but, in the cold light of day, he bought the club on borrowed money, rinsed us dry, and then sold us to Russian gangsters for a massive profit. And we are. living with that decision.

Derek Taylor
115 Posted 05/01/2023 at 11:55:20
Well said, Kevin!
John Hall
116 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:01:29
Paul Tait – our Under-21s manager – could do a job. The kids love and respect him! Why not?
Tony Everan
117 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:03:40
Contract Duration: 2022 (2½ years)

Base Salary: £5 million

Weekly Wage: £105,000

Total Value of Contract: £15 million including bonuses.

It's going to cost us £7.5M to sack him plus his staff, so maybe about £8-10M altogether? Can we afford to sack him? Can we afford not to? One thing is for sure: he won't walk, he will stay on saying he can turn this around.

And Kevin, well said, that's exactly how I see it too. Nobody is running the club – it has been cast adrift, the absent owner, the part-time chairman and the amateurs left in the office to fudge it. Dysfunctional from top to bottom.

Darren Hind
118 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:04:30
Sorry, Robert, but it is you talking the nonsense.

Eddie Howe defied gravity for years at Bournemouth, just as Frank is doing now. History is absolutely littered with poorly run clubs being dragged up by the bootlaces by good managers. I would love to see a list of successful clubs who had bad managers.

You gush about the way things are done at Leicester, Liverpool and Arsenal. Why do you think that is? Could it be the people the owners hired to do a job are actually doing that job?

Horse, Cart, Before…

Dennis Stevens
119 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:06:09

Allardyce's League performance was no better than Unsworth's... and the man Moshiri wanted had become available – it's no big surprise that the switch was made.

Kim Vivian
121 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:17:43
Regarding any potential new manger, it is my view that we should be looking at names with promotion on their CVs.

We are in such a bad place right now that I am resigned to going down this season, whoever is in charge. But, in that event, we need someone to bring us straight back up again.

Eddie Howe, for example, would have been such a name but that ship has sailed and is out of sight over the horizon now.

If a miracle happens and we remain in the Premier League, all well and good – I would be ecstatic – but perhaps a rocking season in the Championship, enjoying the watch and having been the catalyst for radical change at the top, might not be all that bad.

Bring in the man that will bring us back up again! Suggestions...?

Ian Edwards
122 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:18:54
Dennis @115.

That's just not true.

Allardyce took us from the lower reaches of the league to 8th. Unfortunately, fan power saw him off just like it did with Periera and appointing Lampard.

Eddie Dunn
123 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:21:43
The fact that, following the Bournemouth defeats, Frank was not removed, nor did the club take advantage of the World Cup recess, and Frank out of country to put in place contingency plans, shows just how poorly organised we are.

The cheapest option is still to keep Frank in place, for the short term. Long term it probably means relegation but the idiots at board level are either clueless as to what to do, or who to get, or simply have no money.

Moshiri is putting everything on hold in the hope that we get through the FA Cup and somehow beat Saints.

From the recent evidence, Hell will freeze over before this team scores more than one goal in 90 minutes.

I suspect that they are reluctant to give Frank any serious money, hence the Ings deal running aground. Simms being recalled is also a worrying sign.

It could be that a midfielder is the priority and they will hope to draft a journeyman striker in the last minutes of the window. If so, it looks like crisis management. The club now are using Lampard as a buffer to try to deflect criticism of themselves.

Personally I think Frank is just an inexperienced guy, living too far from home and family, trying to do and say the right things, but without the ability to cajole or bully the way Klopp can for example.

Perhaps he is too nice. It is true that the squad looks very brittle mentally and lightweight physically. Perhaps he has tried everything he knows but his answers at pressers are simply along the lines of "It is what it is" and we just have to keep "doing the work".

The obvious elephant in the room is his team selections and tactics, which have been wrong so many times. His dogmatic approach, repeating the same mistakes, is puzzling as he seems to be intelligent.

What is clear is that he fails to inspire this group. Watching him on the touchline, arms crossed, brow furrowed, when his counterpart jumps about barking instructions, gives the impression that he just doesn't know what to do. His sidekick looks like he's a rabbit in the headlights too.

Our only hope is to get an organiser. We need a no-nonsense guy, who can motivate players, put in simple instructions, keep us in games and gather points. Other teams will have bad runs, there is a long way to go.

This board and the owner have wasted 6 weeks. They are now going to waste another week or two until they have no choice but to sack him. Then the new guy will have no time, no window, which might save them a few bob now but will cost so much more if we go down.

I am astonished at how unprofessional our club is run. How unprepared they are, and how out of touch they are.

I'm not shocked, of course. My worry is that I don't trust them to get Dyche (not everyone's dream choice but a pragmatic one); I can see them getting in a Kenwright romantic musical choice. A returning father, son, long-lost friend.

No one outside of our fanbase will have an ounce of sympathy for us if we go down. We are seen as having squandered half a billion pounds, bought shite, have Russian ties, and a toxic support.

If we do sack the affable cockney, expect his media chums to sharpen the knives: "Poor Frank – what could he do with that lot? No money to spend, a disfunctional squad and a fanbase living in the past."

Whatever happens, it's going to get messy.

Mark Murphy
124 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:21:52
This tells me that the cup game is irrelevant and that we'll have a new manager for the Southampton game.

Sadly, as I had hoped for Frank, it needs to happen. I just hope the new manager is a serious manager and not just another punt (spelt with a P).

Dennis Stevens
125 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:25:36
It is true, Ian, check the facts before you spout your usual tripe!

Allardyce dragged us up the table at the same rate of progress that Unsworth was already achieving – there was no improvement in Premier League performance, despite the more favourable circumstances Allardyce enjoyed in comparison to Unsworth.

Alec Gaston
126 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:27:38
Kim @117,

The problem is we won't come back from relegation.

Joe McMahon
127 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:32:22
For what it's worth, I've always liked Scott Parker, but I really would prefer a manager not just taken from who's available, like when Southampton did their research and got Pochettino.
Jim Wilson
128 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:32:47
So our response to Tuesday night is: no signing of the forward we desperately need, no signing of the midfield playmaker we desperately need, and no sign of the manager being sacked that we desperately need.

All we will get v Man Utd is Lampard reverting to the 3-5-2 that got us the draw v Man City only this time we won't ride our luck and we will be well beaten.

Ian Bennett
129 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:39:23
A bad defeat or performance at Man Utd and he will be replaced for the Saints match.

I would expect talks will be made over the weekend. They need a bounce for Southampton, it's a game that we can't afford to lose.

Dead man walking, for me.

Tony Everan
130 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:39:33
Can we afford to sack Frank Lampard and stay within P&S rules? The £8M or so payoff may push us over the limit allowed.

The only strengthening business so far has been the return of Simms and a failed loan attempt for Ings. It could point to being too skint to do anything about Frank's status but to plod on and hope things somehow miraculously improve.

Or alternatively, some outgoings required and a new footballing term may then be coined – “sell to sack”!

Ian Edwards
131 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:45:30
Dennis @121,

You are chatting absolute rubbish again.

In 2016 Unsworth was in charge for 1 match which he won.

In 2017 he was caretaker for 8 matches: Won 2 Drew 1 Lost 5.

The only direction he took the club is towards Oldham where he is stinking out the place.

Robert Tressell
132 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:47:57
Darren #114,

I don't believe either of Frank or Potter are bad managers. Far from it. They do / did their role well.

However, their role does not extend to determining what players are available to them. The clubs have a strategy for that. So the manager / coach is equipped to do his job by the club's recruitment and development strategy – and the people tasked with running that strategy.

It's the same with Arteta at Arsenal and even Klopp who was specifically chosen because he'd achieved success in the sort of model Liverpool wanted to adopt to try and compete with Chelsea and City but without the same level of resources.

Not many managers run the show these days. That's a very old-fashioned approach. But then we're a very old- fashioned sort of club.

Andrew Bentley
133 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:51:10
Kim @117, as per Alex's comment (@122), I don't think we appreciate the financial dire straits we are in as a club right now.

If we go down, then we aren't bouncing straight back up again with the players we've currently got – let alone the ones we'll be left with –and to be honest we are probably going to be facing financial oblivion.

Moshiri doesn't have the money to finish the stadium with Usmanov now being sanctioned and his money restricted. There's a good reason why there have been stories about us trying to sell to US investors and raise funds for the stadium as he hasn't got the Usmanov Russian funds to use.

It's a bit like everyone moaning about us selling Richarlison – we had to do it by a set date to show the Premier League that was taking control of our finances in line with P&S Rules. We had no choice and I'm pretty sure that the Dele Alli deal was all part of the agreement to take Richarlison as well in the summer.

We are so poorly run, with a man at the helm who has no clue what he's doing (the El Ghazi loan deal is a prime example of him just working with agents) and now no access to money.

Relegation could be the nail in the coffin of this club. It's not doing a Leeds I fear, it's us becoming the next Bury…

Dramatic maybe, but look at all the analysis from Paul the Esk and insights from others. We are not financially sound and run by idiots.

Anthony Hawkins
134 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:53:36
I'll keep pedalling the same comment:

It's a self-fulfilling prophesy without a striker — we'll go down as we don't have the goals in us.

Ken Kneale
135 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:55:39
Just in case anyone needs their memory refreshing, this is from January 2022. Good to see such knowledge being put to good use:

Legendary Everton striker Graeme Sharp has been appointed to the club's Board as a non-executive director it was announced today.

Sharp, 61, first joined the Blues as a player from Dumbarton in 1980 and went on to form an integral part of the club's famous trophy-winning side of the mid-1980s.

In recent years, the Scot has fulfilled an ambassadorial role for Everton but has now been elevated to the boardroom.

“This club is in my blood," Sharp said upon the announcement. "I have enjoyed many great days as a Blue — and joining the Board and being able to play a part in shaping Everton's future is one of the greatest honours of all.

“I look forward to working with my fellow board members and take my responsibility as a custodian of our great Club very seriously.”

Club Chairman, Bill Kenwright, said of the news: “We were determined to have someone join us with not only great knowledge of Everton but also extensive football insight and experience.

"Someone who could support and challenge. And in Sharpy's case we've got this in abundance.”

Alec Gaston
136 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:56:01
Stuart @23,

The point is we shouldn't be in this position again — poor governance and no strategy equals poor decisions relating to managers and players.

Fans will have to drag them through again but I'm not sure it will work or if there is enough energy left but, in my view, it's the only way we have a chance of getting out of this again.

Christy Ring
137 Posted 05/01/2023 at 12:57:28
You can talk about Brentford and Brighton and the great structure they have in place, but it's from the top down.

Our mess is because of Kenwright having a say in everything from the owner, to the manager, to the backroom and boardroom staff. That's why we're fucked.

If a successful manager like Ancelotti walked away, it says everything about how the club is run. Lampard will be gone shortly in my opinion, but he's not the problem.

If the board sell our best player, Richarlison, after avoiding relegation, and the manager isn't allowed to sign Cornet for £17.5M as his replacement, because Burnley wanted the money upfront, what hope has he got of bringing top players to the club?

Looking at all the different comments coming out about Kenwright now, shows a man who sadly puts himself above EFC, some Evertonian in disguise.

Ian Edwards
138 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:00:02
Anthony 130.

It's not the lack of a striker, it's the tactics.

Whoever is up front is isolated and gets no service just like every other striker we have used up front like Rondon, Kean, Tosun, Maupay, Simms, Cannon. You need to be World Class to play up front on your own marked by 4 defenders.

If we sign another forward, it will just be another in the Goodison lone forward graveyard.

Andrew Bentley
139 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:02:35
Look at our transfer activity last couple of years. On paper it looks like we have spent £120M on players but some of the contracts and the way we are paying for them will be “creative” at best – ie, over an extended period of time and against future earnings or transfers – eg, Moise Kean.

With our outgoings, our net spend is only £14M for the last 2 seasons. The regurgitation of half a billion spent by Everton was 3-5 years ago now. And yes, we totally wasted the money but very few, if any, of those players we signed during that period are still here.

Moshiri may as well have done a KLF stunt and just burnt the cash. Would have been just as effective.

Nick Page
140 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:06:17
Southampton buying a striker. Board said they'll back the manager.

Meanwhile, at Tapeworm Towers, Kenwright scrutinising media reports for ex-players to ban over criticism. Fucking parasite… get out of our club.

So theoretically what happens when we get battered at home to Southampton and are bottom of the league on 15 points? Do people still believe that Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale et al haven't fucked up and ruined us? They should be fucking frog-marched out of the city.

Bill Gall
141 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:16:31
Here we go again... sack Kenwright, sack the Board — I am getting sick of it, we know that is the problem but why (as I have been saying) isn't Moshiri doing something about it?

He is the problem. A thief will keep on stealing, an arsonist will keep on setting fires unless people in authority stop them and it is the same at Everton, the Chairman and Board will keep on performing as normal unless someone with the authority, like the owner, does something about it.

It is like the saying, Nero fiddles while Rome burns. Despite all the talk from the players, I think they are now frightened to play, and are gradually losing confidence in the club, and no manager can cure that, it takes positive action from the top to cut out the cancer.

Joe McMahon
142 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:22:11
Ken, please don't remind me. It's like the time he blanked me years ago when I asked him a question about our low-scoring football when Moyes was manager (in one of the lounges).

As a teenager, I thought he was great, but now I just feel he's betrayed Everton fans supporting the self-serving Charlatan Kenwright.

To put it bluntly, I see Greame Sharp as a complete tosser.

Raymond Fox
143 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:22:42
Something's got to change that's for sure, if we don't we are asking to go down.

If we can't find the players we need, we change the manager.
I don't want to sack Frank but, as we are, we can't win a game.

I'm not interested in the Man Utd game, but the next two Premier League games are proper 6 pointers.

Brian Harrison
144 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:25:05
Robert @128

You say in your post that "Frank and Potter aren't bad managers – far from it – they do/did their role well".

I don't quite know why you included Potter in this post, but just tell me how you define that Frank is doing his role well?

I have certainly seen no overall improvement since he arrived; our goal tally since he arrived has been woeful and his win ratio is one of the worst by any Everton manager.

Darren Hind
145 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:25:37

You are putting up the job description of a DoF. We have had three of them. They have all been crap and failed to do what Moshiri paid them to do.

He's done his bit, but he has been let down badly by managers, coaches, directors and recruitment. He has put people in similar or the same positions as the more successful clubs have. Therefore his "strategy" has been the same or very similar.

You can come up with the greatest football strategy since football strategies were invented in the minds of those who choose to over-complicate the game... but if you bring in the wrong people... you will end up where we are now.

I have put forward my points and you have put forward yours, but we will never agree on this. For me, Moshiri is the least guilty person at the club.

He must lay awake at night ruing the day he ever met Kenwright.

Jack Convery
146 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:31:39
ERC are giving Frank the Cup game and then it will adios amigo with Bobby Brown Shoes – the Kenwright pick – given the manager's job.

Farcical club, finally getting what it richly deserves, and not before time.

Dennis Stevens
147 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:32:24
Never let the facts get in the way of you spouting absolute tripe, Ian.

After Unsworth took over from Koeman, he gained 7 points from his 5 League matches in charge & dragged us out of the relegation zone.

Allardyce then took over & achieved 34 points from the 24 League matches he was in charge for.

Despite the fact that Allardyce had more time to work with the players and a transfer window to bring in new signings, the points per match barely changed.

Simple facts, Ian.

Robert Tressell
148 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:36:15
Thomas Frank of Brentford, Brian! As part of a debate with Darren which also brought Graham Potter into the equation. Certainly not our underperforming Frank!

Darren – we could go back and forth on this for ages but it just gets boring for everyone else and we still won't agree. You're welcome to your views and sorry I described them as nonsense earlier.

Danny O’Neill
149 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:36:24
Been watching this discussion from the sidelines but I'll come off the bench having done my stretches.


Take a non-Everton view that aligns with many of our sentiments.

Marc Hints
150 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:36:56
Can't agree more, Jack, fed up all the time with the club.

No communication from the owner, chairman etc... with what is going on, direction the club is going etc...

Even the pundits and ex-players are finally coming out now and saying it's the board and the club is in constant freefall.

As everyone has said, until we have a new owner, chairman, CEO and the club is owned by people who know how to run a football club, I am afraid it's all going to be doom and gloom.

What I actually think now is nothing will happen until the stadium is built and then he will sell and make money for himself and Kenwright.

Sad state of affairs now and for the foreseeable future until the ownership changes.

Nick Page
151 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:39:53
Sorry you're getting sick of it, Bill @137? How fucking terrible for you.

I've been sick to death of the cancerous piece of shit Kenwright for over 15 years. It must be awful hearing how badly one of your own is being discussed by the real fans of the club.

Spurs fans now demanding questions of their board whom they hate. Will share any findings they say – this is called an independent supporters group – not one that is set up by Kenwright to deflect all criticism, and managed by some half-baked ex-player who's taking the coin (looking at you, Sharp, you twat).

Makes my fucking piss boil that we've got to this stage after so so long of the diabolical bastard's subterfuge. Can you imagine being in their position and demanding better??? No – well you fucking should have been in 2009-10 after the FA Cup Final.

Colin Malone
152 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:41:43
There's only one name in my mind. A coach, who was very successful. Unfortunately, it was not good enough for the clubs he coached.

A coach, who will get us on solid ground, there is no doubt.
A coach, who has a lot to prove in the Premier League.

Jose Mourinho.

Darren Hind
153 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:43:44
Ha ha, No problem, Robert.

At least you didn't put Ian Wright on the witness stand... He was a roaring success as a manager. I doubt he even knows who Moshiri is,

Explains a lot though.

Danny O’Neill
154 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:50:39
Who would you put on the witness stand, Darren?

I don't think it's unhealthy to view the opinions of those external of Everton.

Especially winners.

See you at Old Trafford tomorrow if you want to meet.

Christine Foster
155 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:57:23
Dave @99, no worries, I actually agree 100%.

As I said, Lampard does not have the experience or technical ability to get the best out of the players. I would also say, even if he did have the capability and expertise, the quality of players we have is not good enough. Put the two together and you're up a creek without a paddle.

Why did we sign Lampard? Board decision.
Why did we sell the few good players? Board decision.
Why did we buy poor players at inflated prices? Ask the Chief Negotiator.

Overall, chickens come home to roost. Each poor decision was compounded by another; this team wasn't built on sand, it was built on egos. It's not good enough to be called a team.

If I was a multi-billionaire, Dave, I would clear the boardroom without even saying hello. I would bring in a forensic accountant to turnover the rocks where the secret deals were done. I would appoint an experience CEO with a background and reputation in football. I would for one year only have an open meeting with any fans, no matter what the questions. I would represent my football club at each and every opportunity. I would not hide. I would not lie.

And each and every Evertonian would be proud to be blue.
That's what it means to own this club. At least I and a million blues would sleep each night.

Jerome Shields
156 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:57:23
Darren #141

I agree. Posters are even referring to the Moyes era of no chance of winning anything and comparing it to the Moshiri chance of winning anything era and failing to realise the common denominator of Kenwright, the business success and club management disaster.

Lampard was recruited as a compliant formula manager by the Board, just to keep Everton in the Premier League, as Moyes was. The problem is, after 28 years of mismanagement, no manager coming in is the solution.

Mosihi would have never got buying into Everton if he demanded changes in the club management. But he got in at a discount, with value appreciation based on a stadium development and increasing valuations of Premier League clubs. It will be a successful investment for him, as long as Everton stay in the Premier League.

He did provide funds and suggested structural changes at Everton which were squandered by the incompetent, self-serving management that run the club.

Trying to change Everton is not easy. Any fan protest has continuously been nullified by the club, going to extraordinary manipulative lengths to do so. Moshiri has found the same to a large extent, even finding himself under pressure to sell for his trouble.

Eddie Dunn
157 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:59:04
Just watched a useless press conference in which Lampard just told us nothing. He said he didn't know about the money side of transfers, nor did he say if he had targets, in fact he might as well be the tea boy.

He thought going to Man Utd was similar to going to Man City, as they are big clubs, good players, good squads...
Sounds like Calvert-Lewin is tired and won't start.

He was asked what improvements there had been in a year and he said the squad had progressed.

There you go.

Derek Taylor
158 Posted 05/01/2023 at 13:59:30
I spoke this morning to just about the only Kenwright supporter I know. I dared to suggest that the only way we shall see the back of his man is as a result of relegation.

His reply shocked me. "Don't be so sure of that, matey," he opined, "Bill is shrewder than that – his deal with Moshiri guarantees him a place on the Board in perpetuity – or so long as he wishes to be involved!"

So there it is – absolutely no plus side even in relegation. Sorry!

Darren Hind
159 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:01:32
I prefer people to have their own views, Danny. Not put forward the views of two ex-players who made a complete twat of coaching.

I've heard Everton managers criticised hundreds of times by pundits. I won't be swayed when you find one that suits your defence of them and put the link up.

George Cumiskey
160 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:06:55
If Frank does go, we can't give the job to Martinez because, in my humble opinion, we are 200% certain to be relegated.

He's definitely not up to a backs-to-the-wall relegation fight.

Raymond Fox
161 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:08:30
Darren 141, I don't give you praise often but that post is right on the money.
Jerome Shields
162 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:11:01
Eddie @153,

Simms was Rondon's replacement. We might get an attacking midfielder at best. Actually, they might play well against Man Utd, having been rested during the Brighton game.

Under pressure, they will put in the effort in training and get some serious motivation from Finch Farm coaches who might think it is better to look as if we are doing something.

Same formation as the City game, with players looking like they are putting in a effort. How long is it to the game after that?

They may also decide the FA Cup is extra work, as they do most years, and just want to prepare for Premier League games, getting their holiday breaks. I call them holiday breaks because little work is done during them.

Bill Fairfield
163 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:11:24
If Frank goes, it won't make any difference as long as Moshiri, Kenwright and Co are still in charge. Get any manager you like.
Paul Tran
164 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:13:07
And thus, Darren proves the point that strategy is great on paper and often rubbish on grass when it's poorly implemented.

We're where we are because we have no strategy and our recruitment is poor. And everything is based on the myth that we're a well-run club that only needs 'money'.

Moshiri has recruited DoFs who have been ineffective, so he feels he has to intervene. He's recruited managers who, for whatever reason, are or were less effective here than they were elsewhere. That suggests to me that there are other staff members causing problems.

He's recruited Koeman, who didn't want to come here, then decided not to back him. He recruited Silva, sold players against his will, didn't get the loaned centre-back who wanted to sign for us, then sacked him.

He expensively recruited Ancelotti, who took a better offer. He mistakenly recruited Benitez, let him make or influence structural changes, then ultimately decided not to back him. He's forced through ridiculous signings because Kia Joorabchian convinced him they were good buys.

Recruitment is more than throwing money at players. It's bringing in competent people throughout the club, then letting them get on with it. It's getting rid of people and practices that are getting in the way. It's about paying attention and learning from your mistakes.

Where I agree with Robert on strategy is that, in the last 6 years, there has been no rhyme or reason to what we've done. We've recruited individuals with no thought of how they're going to work together. There is, I feel, an old-fashioned culture at Everton determined to resist change.

If we'd recruited well, we'd be doing a lot better. I'd argue we've recruited poorly because there's no plan, no strategy, no critical thinking, no real desire to make the necessary changes.

The manager is crucially important. I'd also ask:

Who is responsible for us needing a new manager every year?
Why have we paid attention to an agent known for bankrupting clubs?
Why has Silva been sacked and ended up above us at Fulham?
What is stopping these highly-paid managers doing the job well with us?
Where is the governance that would have presented senior people running separate transfer policies?

Good strategy, good recruitment. We lack both. A vicious circle that needs to be broken.

Or do we recruit a manager every year, hoping that one of them will work?

Dave Abrahams
165 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:13:14
Christine (151) Thanks for your reply Christine, as for your last paragraph I’d expect you to do exactly what you posted you would do simply because you absolutely love the club and could never pretend to, I and thousands of other genuine Bluenoses would sleep a lot easier if someone like you had control of the club and most of us rue the day “ You know who “ blagged his way into owning and practically ruining this club of OURS. Thanks again Christine.
Brian Wilkinson
166 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:20:15
I second that, Raymond, better go and have a lay down, Darren, 2 posters agreeing with you.

We need to bin the so-called DoF. We have had Brands, Walsh and Thelwell – none of those three delivered.

Moshiri will be forever remembered as the man who had his kecks well and truly yanked down by Bill.

Danny O’Neill
167 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:22:15
I have my own views, Darren, as do you. We differ on many counts. We agree even if we don't always realise it. But I don't discount the views of those outside the club.

Otherwise we live in an Everton la-la land. Insular and thinking we know best. Sometimes hearing the views of supporters and pundits (feel sick) giving an unbiased opinion compared to you and I and especially from those who have achieved success in the last 40 years can open the eyes to reality.

Why is yet another manager failing?
Would Duncan have succeeded?

We are not Brentford, Bournemouth or Brighton. We are Everton. Their achievements and success are commendable and based on building a structure compared to where they were 30 or 40 years ago.

So are ours. And we've failed. Massively failed. They have been on an upwards projectile, we on a gradual downwards one. Not entirely down to management of the team but how the club had been managed and run for decades.

Actually, I do a dis-service by suggesting the club has been run for those nigh-on 40 years; it's been mis-managed.

I have to take a flight to watch them tomorrow. I have no idea how or when I'll get home in the early hours of Saturday morning but I'll figure it out.

Darren Hind
168 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:30:48

Of course it's healthy to listen to exterior views, but we can't ignore the hundreds which don't suit us and focus on one which does.

I know you have your own views. I don't always agree with them but I have far more respect for your views on Everton than anything Ian Wright has to offer.

He knows nothing about this club and would only have stolen his view from Evertonians like you in the first place.

George Cumiskey
169 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:33:31
Christine @ 151,

You'd bring a tear to a glass eye! 👍

Danny O’Neill
170 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:33:40
Fair one, Darren. Hopefully tomorrow we may talk and be agreeing. But excuse me for going into matchday mode.
Christine Foster
171 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:36:02
George, and a spark of life in the other...
Brian Wilkinson
172 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:38:58
I had a dream last night, Danny, that Iwobi did an overhead kick that flew into the Man Utd net, and he lifted his shirt to reveal a tribute to Pele! The great escape starts tomorrow night, mate.

Enjoy the game, enjoy 9,400 Evertonians going mental as we book our place in the next round.

Expect the unexpected with Everton.

Brian Harrison
173 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:48:39
I have never bought into this DoF role, surely if you are that good at spotting potential and how they will fit into your team structure, then go and do your badges and manage yourself.

We have had 3 DoFs and they havent bought a good player between them all. At what point does the manager say "This is who I want and not the wasters you are buying."

I think the only successful DoF I can remember was Frank Arneson at Chelsea but Frank didn't buy players for the first team, he went and bought the best youngsters who in 2/3 years time would be first-team players.

I could well imagine the response that you would get from some of the great managers if they had somebody other than them saying who they wanted.

People say times have changed... well, we still have 11 v 11 and the manager still coaches them 5 days a week. Now if you're saying the off-field position has changed, then employ people to do that.

Any strategy at a club should be dictated by the manager and he alone, not owners or chairmen – after all, when did you ever see an owner or chairman stand down because of their awful strategy? The answer is never.

Usmanov & Moshiri have mostly hired untried managers who haven't won anything in any of the top leagues; obviously Ancelotti was the exception and, for me, if he had stayed and been allowed the sort of budget Koeman and Silva had, we would be in a very different place now.

Just going back to people other than the manager signing players, Ancelotti only signed two players while here, Allan and James. Both Godfrey and Doucouré were signed by someone else; this was confirmed by both players when meeting Ancelotti for the first time – he admitted he knew nothing about them.

Ed Prytherch
174 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:57:27
Anyone who takes this job is likely to end up with a black mark on his CV. The field will be managers from League One or Two or a take-the-money-and-run type like a cheaper version of Allardyce.
Rennie Smith
175 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:57:46
You're right, Paul @160, there's no strategy whatsoever, just desperation. Chuck this one in, see if that works. No? Ok next etc. etc.

I know every club and fan has very little patience these days, if you don't turn things around within months you're a failure. And how can that happen? It takes years and many transfer windows to build a team.

People say get rid of the deadwood, sign some quality, but who's going to take the shite off our hands and what quality player wants to come to a disaster zone?

Danny O’Neill
176 Posted 05/01/2023 at 14:58:27
Brian W, if I have to, I will sleep with a smile on my face on a bench at Piccadilly until there is a train to get to Euston.

Brian H, the DoF model works if you properly buy into it and don't half bake it like Everton have. It is the continental model, essentially replaces the scouting system as we know it and you end up with a head coach rather who just focuses on the first team rather than the traditional British style manager who controls everything.

Another layer? Maybe. But it's the way the game has gone by and large.

We just haven't executed it very well.

Steve Brown
177 Posted 05/01/2023 at 15:12:12
Paul T, @ 163.

To summarise your points, our long-term failure is due to poor strategy, planning governance, structure and recruitment? That is maybe more aligned with Robert's arguments.

Darren's view is that the key is good recruitment of the DoF and manager, who should take accountability and do the job properly that they are amply paid to do.

Most failing organisations I have seen do so because of poor strategy, leadership, operating norms and culture. The question is whether the same norms apply to a football club, or is it fundamentally different. I don't know the answer as nothing seems to work at Everton.

If we need a Tom Werner, Billy Hogan, Michael Edwards and Jurgen Klopp in combination then we are sunk, as we have the Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale as two parts of that quartet.

I hope Darren is right, as the hiring of a Klopp, Wenger, Ferguson or even Arteta could prove transformational for the club. The hiring of a Dyche, Martinez, or Postecoglu definitely won't transform shit.

Steve Brown
178 Posted 05/01/2023 at 15:16:04
Sorry for swearing but I am fucking fed-up with the state of our beloved club… oops, sorry, there I go again.
Kieran Kinsella
179 Posted 05/01/2023 at 15:19:57
Duncphile Darren digging away. If it’s all about the manager then he’d want cone boy as boss but he doesn’t because he knows he’s wrong about the problems at the club and he doesn’t want everyone to laugh at him when Dunc fails again
Joe McMahon
180 Posted 05/01/2023 at 15:24:47
Man Utd now looking at Mohammed Kudus. It's soul-destroying. We have Maupay (shoots like a 3-year-old), Gordon and a 6-yard box injury-prone striker upfront.
Paul Tran
181 Posted 05/01/2023 at 15:25:33
Steve #173, that's a fair point.

I was trying to see the merits in both Robert's and Darren's arguments. We need a strong, savvy, competent manager and a coherent strategy to give him the support he needs.

I think strategy is meaningless when it's implemented poorly, but I don't think you can run a business well without one. I've run a one-person business for 20 years, even I have one!

If we're lucky enough to find the right manager, he will either insist on a level of control that would require significant change, or just screw us for the inevitable compensation money. That may mean the right one doesn't get the job.

Bill Gall
182 Posted 05/01/2023 at 15:29:15
Nick #147,

I don't understand what the fuck you are talking about (one of my own).

I have been supporting Everton since 1954 and if you have the intelligence to read what I have been writing, I am not supporting this Board or the Chairman I am getting at the owner for allowing them to continue. Instead of continually moaning "Sack Kenwright and the Board".

I live over 4,000 miles away and it costs a lot to come home, which I do quite often, and can give you names of people who can vouch that I am a real Everton supporter, without having to capitalize it. Another fact: I was brought up as the only Evertonian in the household with a brother and sister reds.

The problem can be cured and, if you and other supporters can get rid of Kenwright and the Board, I will be first to congratulate you. But the only one that can legitimately fire anyone is the owner.

Ed Prytherch
183 Posted 05/01/2023 at 15:33:29

Some of us suspect that Kenwright has a contract with Moshiri that allows him to be Chairmen for as long as he likes, most likely until he dies. Moshiri has to sell in order for Kenwright to go.

George Cumiskey
184 Posted 05/01/2023 at 15:37:28
Christine 👍👍🤩🤩
George McKane
185 Posted 05/01/2023 at 15:39:48
PT - agreed.I

I founded Yellow House Charity and ran it on my own for 35 years. I now employ 3 young people who came through YH from school days.

I started with a clear policy, philosophy, ethos, plan and way of working – although times have changed and I have done some small tweaks, philosophy and ethos stand.

I have no idea whatsoever what Everton's ethos or philosophy is on and off the pitch – if they have one!

George Cumiskey
186 Posted 05/01/2023 at 15:40:19
Like I said on another thread, playmaker first, striker second, to stand any chance of getting out of this shit position.
Jim Wilson
187 Posted 05/01/2023 at 15:52:43
Agree, George @182 – with or without forwards, if we don't sort out the midfield asap, we are in trouble.
Andrew Ellams
188 Posted 05/01/2023 at 15:55:31
Why are so many people so sure that Martinez wants to manage Everton again?
Jim Wilson
189 Posted 05/01/2023 at 16:02:42
Getting the midfield right should be the first priority.

Gueye needs an influential playmaker next to him. And we need the extra man in midfield. Not the defence.

A playmaker for the midfield and then a forward.

Rob Halligan
190 Posted 05/01/2023 at 16:03:06
Ken #131.

I think I will put myself forward to be elected to join the board, after all, I have all the same credentials as Graeme Sharpe, ie, “This club is in my blood," Sharp said upon the announcement. "I have enjoyed many great days as a Blue — and joining the Board and being able to play a part in shaping Everton's future is one of the greatest honours of all”

Sharpie says this club is in my blood, well it's also been in my blood for nearly 60 years. He's had many great days as a blue? Well so have I, only on the terraces instead of on the pitch. Anyone prepared to nominate me?

Brian Wilkinson
191 Posted 05/01/2023 at 16:09:42
Rob, you would not even get 3 minutes of voicing your opinion before they launched you out, mate.

Go kicking and screaming though.

Ed Prytherch
192 Posted 05/01/2023 at 16:10:27

Bill has a list of everyone who has ever said or written anything negative about him. Not being on the list is the first requirement for employment or any other official role with the club.

You are fucked, mate!

Rob Halligan
193 Posted 05/01/2023 at 16:14:41
Yeah, but Brian, it would be worth it to walk into a board meeting telling Kenwright he's an absolute bellend, and asking Barrett-Baxendale if Unsie is still knocking her off, before getting slung out!
Mal van Schaick
194 Posted 05/01/2023 at 16:20:13
Lampard must have a time scale from the board to turn it around, or else if we continue losing a few more league games, there will only be so many games left for a new manager to keep us in the league.
Steve Brown
196 Posted 05/01/2023 at 16:30:40
George & Paul, your experiences of running a business and charity confirm that Everton need a clear strategy and plan consisently applied.

I do agree because the commercialisation of the game has changed the context of how a club can be successful over the long-term.

Like you both, I have no idea what Everton's strategy, ethos, philosophy is. That is because the senior leadership do not communicate in a coherent way with the fans.

Darren Hind
197 Posted 05/01/2023 at 16:43:57

Of course the flaw in that argument is, if we change owners and don't win anything (not out of the question), nobody would ever be accountable. again.

Forget the DoFs, the players, the managers, the coaches and what goes on on the pitch. We can forget all discussion and observations because we will know that lack of strategy or perceived lack of strategy will be to blame....

But then how will we explain basket cases like Real Madrid winning club football's top prize all the time?

Danny O’Neill
198 Posted 05/01/2023 at 16:44:49
Rob, you get my vote. I'd love to be in what would probably be your one and only meeting!

Hope to see you tomorrow, mate. I should be in Manchester for 5 pm.

Paul Tran
199 Posted 05/01/2023 at 16:45:38
Steve, I suspect they don't communicate because they don't have a strategy. Whatever we've done in the last quarter, Denise will put it all in an email and link it to the 'review'.

As in other walks of UK life, the longer people refuse to admit they don't know what they're doing, the more lies and bullshit they give us, the more they lack credibility, etc.

I'm not convinced anything will change at Everton, until Moshiri sells to owners that give the business a thorough clean-up.

First steps are, as George C says, playmaker, then striker, regardless of which the manager is.

Ken Kneale
200 Posted 05/01/2023 at 16:47:57

I will second you anytime – you would be far more effective than that chocolate fireguard Sharp.

Paul Tran
201 Posted 05/01/2023 at 17:06:54
Darren, I'd say Real Madrid stay successful because they've been winning big pots since before I was born, they got themselves ahead of the financial game before FFP and as a result, find it easier to stay within the restrictions. And their continuing success means players and managers want to join them.
Brian Murray
202 Posted 05/01/2023 at 17:21:33
After the strategic review I wonder if there will be any strategic banners there tomorrow night or is it all about supporting the team to roar into the velvet bag and the next round Danny o style No such thing as a free hit but there again even the owner is conditioned to the Everton way saying we can’t upset the top four in a game.
Nick Page
203 Posted 05/01/2023 at 17:22:21
Rob - funny posts. I’d defo back you too, lol.

Out of interest do WE have an actual INDEPENDENT fan group? Or is the one we have the white-washed Kenwright one where he’s bought (coerced) the silence out of those involved. I ask because we desperately desperately need an independent body so that fans can be heard and we all have access to those running the club. Kenwright has been very successful in the divide and conquer tactics to split the fans and prevent mass protest. So that Spurs thing today got me thinking. We’ve definitely got pressure groups like Paul’s NSNOW (and old KEOIC, Blue Union etc) but I think there needs to be an over-arching fan group tied to this, that the club can’t touch, which also has access to local media. Any ideas? Fans forums are great but it gets a bit like an echo chamber and we’re all pretty much on the same page now (bar a few of Bill’s disruptive mates).

Nick Page
204 Posted 05/01/2023 at 17:25:49
Ok Bill @178. Truce mate. I was half pulling your leg anyway but I’ll stop the mischief now. Sorry pal. No doubt you’re a blue mate, and we’re all a bit sore. All the best 👍
Peter Neilson
205 Posted 05/01/2023 at 17:26:15
Real Madrid is owned by the supporters and votes for a President every four years. More accountability than our model and consequences for failing to deliver success.
Raymond Fox
206 Posted 05/01/2023 at 17:30:16
Our Franks making all the right noises on the BBC, theres money available for buying or loans he says.
We've been knocked back for a loan for Ings, no suprise. Keane seems surplus to requirements at this time, can we make some kind of a deal with him and Ings. Of course this is Everton if we did a trade all our defenders would get crocked.
Ings seems to be the sort of fiesty individual we could do with though, having said that he's hardly a prolific goal scorer.
Nick Page
207 Posted 05/01/2023 at 17:32:13
Not sure if any of you have read the stuff about the shite/caffeine/inhalers etc but I remember reading this article on them and the lengths Bingo has gone to with his team of nutritionists. THIS is what professional sports clubs do and this was 2019. There is also an article in The Athletic on the same theme. Apologies it’s on them but it’s a great insight. Meanwhile Yerry Mina gets cramp after a six week break which, I’m sure is all part of the wider problem of (lack of) professionalism and accountability.
Ken Kneale
208 Posted 05/01/2023 at 17:32:54
Nick - if he had applied the same degree of strategic and tactical acumen to the running of the club as he has over the years, as you say, to his divide, conquer and silence all who do not obey as it were, we would be multiple Premier league champions by now.

Any person including fellow directors were trampled, and now seemingly the owner seems impotent to ridding the club of this curse. We are left with DBB and Sharp as his "critical friends" - little hope there of dissent.

Can't wait for Rob's elevation to the boardroom - it will certainly liven up the meetings

Iain Johnston
209 Posted 05/01/2023 at 17:45:04
We can't score, only have 5 midfielders and judging by Lampard's Man U press conference it's business as usual and he's not that arsed.

What's the fucking point?

Nick Page
210 Posted 05/01/2023 at 17:45:29
Ken that’s obviously one of his strengths - shithousery. Along with lying through his teeth. He’s definitely a control freak, likely a narcissist too. But he can’t run a football club as he hadn’t a clue what he was talking about when the BU quizzed him on the clubs Balance Sheet. Plus he called that slime Greene a genius in finances (no doubt, lol). But that’s all fine as you just outsource all that to the useful idiots and you remain the face, and in control. The only thing that will remove this cancer is fan and media pressure. When the shits hit the fan before he usually fakes an illness for sympathy and disappears for a while. He’ll literally do anything.
Tom Bowers
211 Posted 05/01/2023 at 17:57:59
The biggest problem at the moment apart from not being able to win and being in the bottom three, is trying to lure any class players.

Nobody really wants to move to a struggling club that may be relegated soon unless they are desperate and Everton have signed too many desperate players in the past.

Loanees might be the only ones but let's face it, they would be second raters and we have enough of those.

A really sad time indeed for all of us with no sign of anything happening in a positive sense.

Dare I mention the word ''win'' but getting one against Manure might just help them to get out of this malaise but if not three points against the Saints becomes more important.

Dave Lynch
212 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:05:41
Thats because (I've been told) he knows Utd is his last game.
I was told, that he will be dismissed before the Southampton game.
The lad who told me is usually correct with his info as well.

Nick Page
213 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:07:10
Who’s on the way in Dave, any ideas? Surely not Wayne…?
Paul Tran
214 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:10:35
Let's hope for shades of 1984. Stoke away in the 3rd round. 'Kendall's last match' as many around me called it that day. Cascarino bottling it one on one with Nev at Gillingham - his book even quotes Howard as telling him, 'thanks for saving my job!'. The hammering of, ahem, Shrewsbury. The unforgettable Meadow Lane toilets. The wonderful view of Highbury from the pitch. The glorious drunken weekend that saw us lift the cup.

I went to every game in that cup run from Portsmouth, bar the Gillingham home game. I'll be roaring them on in hope from the Highlands tomorrow.

Dave Lynch
215 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:17:25
Never said Nick.
I asked him the same question and he said he didn't know.
Joe McMahon
216 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:20:24
Paul, not only was that 39 years ago, a 2023 Manchester United that are back in form is not The1984 Stoke City.

If you want to revisit the Meadow Lane toilets try lower bullets 😉

Derek Knox
217 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:23:45
Rob @189, I am with you all the way there mate, but please try the diplomatic approach when you enter the Boardroom. If Barret Baxendale has any hint of an Oldham Accent, accompanied by Boundary Park Grass Stains on her clothing - question answered. As for that other piece of narcissistic detritus, I suggest a lie detector, sometimes known as an AK 47, pointed between his sleazy eyes and a gentle squeeze of the trigger should do the trick. It will be regarded as a mercy killing which has benefitted all mankind. Especially Evertonians.

Now should there be any imprisonment, we will hold marches and protest that Rob is Innocent, Free this Hero Now !

Well it worked for Deidre on Corrie ! :-)

Paul Tran
218 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:24:32
You're right Joe, I did say 'in hope'. Are those LB toilets that bad? Those Meadow Lane ones were terrible!
Brian Murray
219 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:26:33
Derek. Well he has a massive bonce. Snipers dream as Bob Mortimer would say.
Ian Hollingworth
220 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:27:07
After a lot of consideration I have decided that we should not be surprised at how bad we have become
Carlo, apart, our last 6 or so managers have been crap.
The quality of incoming players has been bang average to crap.
The slightly better players and even ones with genuine quality have been let go (e.g. James and Ritchie).
With all that in mind It’s no real surprise to find ourselves where we are and only change in ownership / board / direction etc is going to change that.
KENWRIGHT OUT would be a good start.
Jay Harris
221 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:29:50
Just watched Franks prematch press conference and to me he looks shot and giving bullshit answers.
I think we all wanted Frank to succeed but it is now clear he may have a good personality but he does not have the ability to improve this football club. Although it is early days Kelwell's initial contribution has been poor too,

I am still in the camp that says a good general manager will trump a coach/DOF model.

Our only bits of moderate success in the last 30 years have come from Moyes and Joe Royle who managed the club from top to bottom despite attempted influence from the boardroom.

We need a manager who will break the mould rather than conform and be agreeable to everything.

The problem is finding them and convincing them to come. We have all bandied about names and our views are just like those running the club. All over the place and totally unsure of the solution.

When Moyes came he was a champion. He pronounced us as the peoples club and immediately put his stamp on the club.

That is exactly what we need now. Not Moyes back but somebody like the "Moyes" that came to us initially.

It would also help to empty Kenwright and his entourage out but due to the agreements in place I cant see that happening anytime soon.

Nick Page
222 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:30:33
Michael/Lyndon - I’ve seen the fan letter to Moshiri. Was just on SSN too so decent coverage (Mike said there were 17 groups coming together). So as per my post 199, is this an actual group that will come together for the greater good to represent the proper fans and give us a voice and perhaps a seat on the board (wishful thinking)? Who coordinated this? Thanks
Joe McMahon
223 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:30:50
Ha Ha Paul, it's the trying not to breathe in experience.
Paul Tran
224 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:42:27
At least there was lots of rain and open air that day in Nottingham, Joe!
Tony Everan
225 Posted 05/01/2023 at 18:50:38
A survey from another site. They may be a bit optimistic in wanting Pochettino , he has double the votes of the second choice.

He’d be my choice too, but as Mick and Keith once said, you can’t always get what you want.

Interesting the votes for Dyche in second place, I didn’t expect him to be that popular.

Ange Postecoglu Votes: 73 12.7%
Mauricio Pochettino Votes: 191 33.3%
Brendan Rodgers Votes: 9 1.6%
Scott Parker Votes: 5 0.9%
David Moyes Votes: 62 10.8%
Sean Dyche Votes: 99 17.2%
Duncan Ferguson Votes: 22 3.8%
Vitor Pereira Votes: 3 0.5%
Marcelo Bielsa Votes: 29 5.1%
Roberto Martinez Votes: 20 3.5%
Other Votes: 61 10.6%

Russelll Smith
226 Posted 05/01/2023 at 19:03:00
Whilst the wider football world is now starting to understand what many on here have been saying for the past 20 years regarding Kenwright’s mismanagement getting rid of him ( which I hope is very soon) will not translate into us winning matches. It will just be the first piece of rebuilding our club.
When they announced Thirwell’s 125 point restructuring of the background regime it was just another tactic to appease the fan base that something was changing. Just like the appointment of Sharp, and the forming of the “fan advisory” team. Corporate bullshit.
When Brighton, Brentford etc etc were structuring their business models they did so without any fanfare and over a number of years and by sticking to their objectives.
Potter is not having as great an impact at Chelsea because the management team behind him are almost as disfunctional as ours. I suspect Chelsea will get their back room in order quicker than we do, and Potter will be very successful.
We, however, will be starting from a very low bar and it is going to take many years for us to get a proper philosophy and sound business model in place before it translates to success on the pitch.
Because of the absolute necessity to stay in the Premier League I fear more short term bad purchases being made in this window which will mean more £15-20 million players wanting top dollar and 3 year deals, who turn out to be our next Maupey and McNeill stars, and so our crisis will continue ad infinitum.
Bobby Mallon
227 Posted 05/01/2023 at 19:06:46
Raymond 202. We should not buy any players in this window. Frank needs to be told to use the simms, prices and any other decent under 21s. We should not pay anymore overpriced footballers enormous wages. We need a Kevin Campbell type loan that’s all
Derek Taylor
228 Posted 05/01/2023 at 19:07:58
Word in my ear is that Kenwright is waiting for Moyes to be free of West Ham as Everton cannot afford to compensate them as well as pay off Lampard & Co.

This weekend's Cup results will have particular relevance !

Rick Tarleton
229 Posted 05/01/2023 at 19:15:03
Christine Foster, as usual, speaks with authority and sense. The three levels of employees at a football club consists of the Board: Moshiri, Kenwright etc. the football controllers:Lampard, Thelwell etc. and the players. The first layer appoints the second and provides the resources for the second layer to recruit the third.If we have had x managers over the last y years and none of them, not even Ancelotti has really made any impact, and the players recruited have proved totally inadequate, then I'd suggest that 99% of the problem lies at the top layer.

Lampard is inadequate, but will changing him give us someone highly effective and efficient? Will changing him make Gueye able to pass, allow Calvert-Lewin to survive two games without injury or fatigue, make Patterson able to think as well as run or turn any of the other players who are manifestly struggling to do their job a jot better?

Start at the top if you want to truly clean out the Augean stable that is Everton. Unfortunately the only people who can effect change at that level are the very people who need to be changed and therein lies the problem.

Derek Knox
230 Posted 05/01/2023 at 19:21:46
Derek, I have no reason to disbelieve your ' word in the ear source ' but doesn't that exemplify, how much Kenwright is still pulling ALL the strings behind the scenes, to get his beloved Davie back.

Yet it beggars belief that people still come on here and try to defend him, stating that Kenwright as Chairman is merely a Figurehead,* and has no, or little influence in the running of the Club.

* I have seen better Figureheads on Viking Longships and Grimsby Trawlers than that despicable waste of good oxygen. *

Dave Lynch
231 Posted 05/01/2023 at 19:21:50
If thats the case, Moyes could easily hand in his resignation and walk straight into the Everton job.
No need to wait for the ginger surrender monkey to be fired...again!
Derek Taylor
232 Posted 05/01/2023 at 19:29:10
Dave @ 227. I don't think the legalistics are that simple. Were Moyes to 'walk out' of West Ham, he would render himself ikely to be sued for 'Breach of Contract and non specific performance of his duties' !
Oliver Molloy
233 Posted 05/01/2023 at 19:30:54
Frank looks worn out to me.
"There has been improvement - some players need to settle and improve,and we hope they go that"
Comparing us to Arsenal !
"If we beat Southampton we will be out of the bottom three - probably"
Southampton will come to Goodison with the same plan as Wolves, Brighton - nothing to fear from this lot lads!

Mauricio Pochettino to Everton - no chance !

Paul Tran
234 Posted 05/01/2023 at 19:43:25
Remember that by all accounts, Bill had Moyes lined up, then Moshiri pulled Carlo out of a hat!

It would be right to say that Moyes couldn't just walk out, but who would bet against Teary Bill sweet-talking Sullivan into 'conveniently' letting it all go through as a 'win-win' for all sides?

Joe McMahon
235 Posted 05/01/2023 at 19:50:17
FFS, I'd rather Sean Dyche over Moyes. His record since leaving 10 years ago hasn't been great. One good league finish for WHU, but look where they are now. Sacked several times and relegated Sunderland (Big Sam kept them up).
Eddie Dunn
236 Posted 05/01/2023 at 19:51:22
Russell it is good that the wider football community are becoming aware of the cancer of Kenwright at the heart of this club.
Outsiders might be aware of our absentee owner and of his links to Arsenal and his old friend Usmanov.
What those in the media and those down south will not know is how much Kenwright has remastered the club to boost his own position and the more he is exposed as a poisonous influence -the better.
Previously the narrative has been of the benign patriarch holding the fort for his beloved club despite the failure of manager after manager.
This is the way to erode his powerbase.
Sadly the likes of Lampard has had little inkling of the reality of the situation here.
The more scrutiny from the media- the better.
The sad thing is, much, more woud be known if these managers didn't sign non-disclosure agreements but of course, they all hope for the handsome pay-off which we can only dream of.
Therefore the conversations today between Lampard and Baxendale and others will never be disclosed. And Frank is complicit in this arrangement.
He has too much to lose to cut himself away from the heirarchy and reveal the shit hand they have dealt him.
Therefore I have zero sympathy for him.
In my eyes he is not up to the job, has consistently refused to criticise himself and his own silly decisions, his poor selections, tactics, subs etc and he should have been given his cards months ago.
I hope the team can pull it out of the fire at United but I predict that once our initial fight has been tempered, the team will roll over and give up on their coach.
We just can't get as lucky as we did at City, Ten Hag watched that game and they will be ready for us parking the bus.
The Cup is United's best chance of honours this year, so I expect a full strength side to face us tomorrow and the thought of Rashford cutting inside Seamus and going through Coady is already giving me the shivers.

Bill Gall
238 Posted 05/01/2023 at 20:08:12
ED # 179

Yes I have heard this before it was supposed to have happened during the time F.Moshiri wished to become owner of Everton F.C. I may be wrong and will stand down if someone has positive prove of what was in any agreements to become an owner by becoming the major shareholder or if I am wrong in any of my figures.

Everton are a shareholders company where the largest share holder can become owner. In 2016 when F.Moshiri expressed interest in buying Everton B.K.was registered as owner with the largest number of shares of 26% of shares. To me that left 74% of shares in other peoples hands, 2 others on the board had 36% combined of shares R.Earl with 23% and J.Woods with 13% so if their were any demands for B.K. to remain Chairman it had to be with collusion with these 2 as if Moshiri just bought both their shares this would have given him 36% of shares that made him owner.

Now as I said I may be wrong and people can correct me but in 2016 when F.Moshiri became owner he bought 13.7% of his shares from B.K., "R.Earl who as far as I am concerned done nothing for Everton " sold him all of his 23% and laughed all the way to the bank., and J.Woods sold him 13% of his shares. This made F.Moshiri the Everton owner as majority shareholder. with 49%.

In 2018 Moshiri increased his shares to 68.8 % buying more shares from B.K. the rest of J.Woods shares and from Abercromby.

As far as I can see F.Moshiri just wanted to become an owner of a football club and not run it so he left B K as chairman, and now with the rest of his F--ck ups in managerial appointments he prefers to sit back and let others, " who deserve it " take the blame instead of as owner stepping up to the plate and get rid of the cancer in the club instead of being part of it.

Enough rambling back to my home care job.

Brian Harrison
239 Posted 05/01/2023 at 20:10:30
Seems that the varying Everton fan bases have put in a letter to Moshiri asking for change at the very top of the organisation, which is asking him to replace Kenwright and DBB from their positions. Kenwright should have stepped down when Moyes left, but Usmanov and Moshiri were quite happy for him to run the shop while they looked after their other businesses.

But looking around at other Premier league clubs, fans at a few clubs have been demanding change at the very top of their clubs. Certainly the Man Utd fans have had a long running campaign to remove the Glaziers, and it looks like the Glaziers may at long last sell the club. The Arsenal fans have also been very vociferous against Kronke being their owner and have had protests. But since Arteta has turned things around the protests have quelled, also at Old Trafford Ten Haag seems to be turning round their fortune. Which for me highlights the importance of getting in the right manager, other than Ancelotti we have hired managers who were never going to be successful. Again the supporters were instrumental in making Moshiri change his mind when he wanted to hire Pereira and the fans ran a campaign to hire Lampard, so maybe fans on boards making those decisions isn't all its made out to be.

Brendan McLaughlin
240 Posted 05/01/2023 at 20:17:43
Brian #235

I'd forgotten "Lampard...the fans choice". No one seems to add those three words to his name anymore.

Tony Abrahams
241 Posted 05/01/2023 at 20:21:53
George@181. I believe the strategy at Everton, is to protect the weakest link, even though everyone knows that you are only as strong as your weakest link.

By adhering to this strategy, I believe many people are keeping their job? This is the only assumption that I can genuinely make.

Derek Knox
242 Posted 05/01/2023 at 20:26:24
Brendan @ 236, "Lampard...the fans choice".

Not quite sure what is implied there. When have We, the Fans, ever had a say in who is either bought in as Players, or Managers Appointments ?

Possibly a Fan Poll which has been applied after the event ! As I have said often on these pages, it's a pity that the fans didn't have say in either of those decisions, or possibly we would be nowhere near the position we are in now !

John Hood
243 Posted 05/01/2023 at 20:30:25
There have been several mentions of Brentford and Thomas Frank on this thread.
As a Bee,could I just point out that T.F.is Head Coach at Brentford,not the manager.We have not had a manager for several years.He is fanastic in that role,but is following on from the excellent work of Uwe Rosler,Lee Carsley and Dean Smith.
The club's success over the last 12 years up from League 2 has been built on strategy,planning and a clear structure.
Anyway,don't despair..a lot can change in a short time. I agree that Mr Kenwright is a major problem

Robert Tressell
244 Posted 05/01/2023 at 20:44:37
Thanks John # 239. Strategy, planning and a clear structure sound about 30 years overdue for Everton.

Sadly it may take relegation before the penny finally drops.

Nick Page
245 Posted 05/01/2023 at 20:48:58
Thanks John @239!! I was at Brentford’s ground a few back to watch Irish (the son trains with them). Really enjoyed it - cracking game too (vs Saries). Hoping to get a prem league game in. Oh and can I just say I think Brentford have done a marvellous job and are an example for all on how to run a football club. Well done
Darren Hind
246 Posted 05/01/2023 at 20:55:07

Did they really get THEMSELVES ahead of the financial game ?

After decades of suspicion and complaints about financial irregularities. Courts of law have found that Real Madrid have received unlawful payments from the Spanish government using tax payers money... on more than one occasion. Both Madrid clubs have, so have Valencia, Barca too.
The reason given by prosecutors was to "give them an unfair advantage" Didnt deter anybody because Madrid were then allowed to purchase land for about 15 million below Market Value.

Barca posted loses of about 100m.

Like every other successful club around the world (Including some of footballs greatest basket cases) These clubs have historically won trophys simply by employing the right managers who in turn have brought in top players.
We witnessed it here When Wenger and Ferguson dragged their clubs from the doldrums to bring them year upon year of success.

We Evertonians don't think that's complicated enough. We need a business strategy just to haul our arses of the EPL floor.

I don't know if its true about Kenwright having wangled a deal which means he cant be sacked. I sincerely fucking hope not, but I wouldnt put it past him. - Looking at Sky sports news, we may be about to find out

What I do know, is that Moshiri has been the proverbial gift horse and the directors of this club, along with its clueless DOF's and zombie loving managers, have spent the last 5-6 years looking it squarely in the mouth

Brendan McLaughlin
247 Posted 05/01/2023 at 20:56:28
Derek #238

It arose from the events surrounding Frank's appointment. It was suggested at the time that Pereira was Moshiri's strongly preferred candidate and only changed his mind when bedsheets daubed with Frank's name appeared at Finch Farm.

You may be right and this in no way influenced Moshiri but there were certainly those who felt it did...hence the, now lapsed, "fan's choice" moniker.

PS Brian (#235) in his final few lines appears to remember it this way as well.

Frank Kearns
248 Posted 05/01/2023 at 20:59:09
Sorry, but it’s all down to the 11 millionaires who play on the day, if they are up for it, give a shit or are just crap. You can’t get a good tune out of a broken fiddle. Feel free to write the usual abuse.
Christy Ring
249 Posted 05/01/2023 at 21:01:06
Paul#160 A few good points, but to say Moshiri didn't back Koeman is totally wrong. Koeman thought he won the lotto, throwing away multi-millions on Keane, Schneiderlin, Klassen, Sigurdsson, Rooney, Bolasie Williams and others, selling Lukaku and too busy playing golf to bring in a no.9. We were definitely heading for relegation, he had to go, and in my opinion he was the most responsible for where we are now.
Darren#164 Is it not a good thing that pundits like Ian Wright, Alan Shearer and BBC's McNulty are highlighting in the media what everyone here knows, Kenwright and the board are the reason the club is in a shambles.
Derek Thomas
251 Posted 05/01/2023 at 21:05:25
In days of yore the dreaded 'Vote of Confidence' was usually good for a 2 week stay of execution.
This isn't 'quite' the DVoC - but if the results don't improve, 3 weeks or so should do it.

And thus; to quote some rs or other - we go again, rinse and repeat, the whole Einstein / Insanity thing etc, etc.

This sort of shit is what makes people think Moyes or Martinez Redux, The M&M Bros, Tweedledum and Tweedledumber, won't attack and can't defend, are suddenly the answer.

And what's even worse is Teary Bill would gladly take any one of them back in a heartbeat and if he could work in Rooney he'd probably do that too.

Eddie Dunn
252 Posted 05/01/2023 at 21:08:13
Christy it is also interesting that these former England teamates of Lampard have only just realised this just when their old mucker is about to get the boot.
Nick Page
253 Posted 05/01/2023 at 21:10:26
Christy to be fair to Koeman, he had two good finishes with Southampton, then one with us and then the board sold Lukaku - we all knew he would have a few seasons and then fuck off - from under him and never replaced him. Still. No contingency planning. Absolutely zero. Just done the same with Richy. They’re fucking idiots. Koeman wasn’t that bad, he was a victim of circumstance like the rest but to think of the money wasted on fees and wages it’s criminal.
Fran Mitchell
254 Posted 05/01/2023 at 21:23:14
The decision to be made is, either go for a Dyche type with 'survival at all costs' type mentality.

This is what I think is not likely, and I'm not against it. however the problem that remains is: our main issue is we can't score, and Dyche will not resolve that.

So if Dyche comes but is unable to stop the rot, then where are we left? Do we keep him for the arduous battle that is a season in the Championship?

other names around are : Moyes: despite everything, he is our most successful manager in the PL era (over a sustained period). and he is at his best when working with a low quality squad and getting the best out of them - as evidenced at West Ham. he has struggled since they invested and bought 'better quality '. But would fans be on board after the acrimonious way he left the club? and again, should we go down, what next?

Martinez: well. some hold.in high regard due to one great season, but he can't organise a defence to save his life, and the quality of players he would have are much much lower. I think he'd be a disaster.

Rooney: why? no experience, nothing to suggest he's got the tools or anything. just cause he was a quality youth player some 20 odd years ago? would be a disaster.

Postecoglou: if this was an appointment in the summer, I'd be up for it. he seems to have a good knowledge of players in non fashionable leagues. But why would he risk his reputation on what could very likely be disaster? not proven in a top league and they struggled in Europe when up against better quality suggest he'd struggle to improve this lot.

Our predicament leaves it unlikely we'll attract a manager like Gallardo, why risk the reputation?

the Like of Pochettino, Tuchel and co is Dreamland thinking. our position, lack of finances, and zero prospect of long term improvement is something such managers wouldn't touch with. barge pole.

I think of someone like Lee Carsley. He's got a lot of experience although non at top level. he's highly regarded and has done the leg work of building a career post playing (unlike Lampard), he's got an affinity with the club, history of working with young players, and could potentially be someone to remain and be part of a rebuild should the worse happen. Maybe a combo of Moyes/Carsley until end of season with the plan of Carsley to take full rein next season no matter where we end up?

Derek Knox
255 Posted 05/01/2023 at 21:28:40
Robert @ 240, sadly if nothing significant changes, relegation could be a reality, and I fear for the Club and it's supporters if that were to become the case. Firstly, I don't believe we would be guaranteed to bounce back, as it is notoriously a hard league to qualify out of for promotion.

Secondly the Financial impact could be so damaging as many players are on ridiculous contracts, plus all the rest of the Staff. Thirdly the Stadium, what would happen there ? Would work be halted etc.

It is not too late to save this season, but the correct appointments and recruitment/exits could be so vital as to our future. We have 20 games left so mathematically possible, even with the players we have if push came to shove. Average just over one point from the remaining games and safety would be almost a certainty. What a mess though and one we could see coming for far too long. The Fans Home and Away have been brilliant, and arguably got us Premiership Safety last time around. Problem is we have actually worsened since then, worrying times indeed.

Eddie Dunn
256 Posted 05/01/2023 at 21:36:45
Derek -the other problem is that mant of the fans are emotionally drained and simply can't forgive the fact that one year on from Frank's appointment we can see the spectre of relegation all over again.
The fact that the club have failed to land a significant striker after the whole summer and now in January we all see the limitations of our ambitions.
We have also witnessed Frank and Co recruiting rubbish like McNeil and Maupay after jettisoning some of the deadwood.
Now we are lumbered with more deadwood and after Frank telling us there was no point buyng players that won't improve us.
In short, the fanbase just wont be as united as last May.
Derek Knox
257 Posted 05/01/2023 at 21:43:46
Eddie, Again, sadly true but what more can we do ?

No matter what happens, and has happened, only one man has gained a fortune from this miasma, one was was largely or totally constructive in it's creation.

Darren Hind
258 Posted 05/01/2023 at 21:46:05

Maybe. but I don't think shearer and Wright are taken seriously by informed footy supporters...Anywhere. I think most will come to the same conclusion as Eddie.

People I meet from outside our club don't care about Kenwright. They never will. Unfortunately that problem is ours and ours alone. Outsiders would much rather take great delight in the vast amounts of money our managers and DOF's have squandered. We will get zero sympathy and in fairness we shouldnt be looking for it.

My point to Danny was that Ian wright will learn more about Everton from him than he will ever learn from Ian Wright.

James Alder
259 Posted 05/01/2023 at 21:51:44
Potter could be available soon!
Stephen Davies
260 Posted 05/01/2023 at 21:53:54
Make no mistake the chances of Relegation this year are extremely serious and if it does happen replicating what occurred to Sunderland and Leeds is a distinct possibility.
Players will leave,and with the reality of paying for the stadium whilst being in the championship ( together with having the same useless Board) results in a very bleak future to look forward to..
That is the reality... meanwhile we sleepwalk into it.
Kevin Molloy
261 Posted 05/01/2023 at 21:59:10
on a lighter note, despite walking away with millions, Bill must be kicking himself every night for how little he got for Everton. what's Moshiri's asking price now, 7-800m? How much did Bill get in his sky rocket, forty?
heh heh
Paul Tran
262 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:00:08
Darren, the clue's in the name. The establishment helped the establishment club. Wouldn't/won't let it fail.

Christy#160, he backed Koeman financially, but the first sign of pressure he folded and sacked him.

Moshiri was a wild, blind gambler who never looked at the form and chased his losses to near-oblivion. Now he's in the bookies, hoping a 100/1 shot comes in to save him.

Darren's part-right. I'm sure he regrets meeting Kenwright. I bet his biggest regret is not standing up to him in the first place. He wanted a club so much after Arsenal swerved him he was gullible enough to be taken in by Kenwright.

You have a badly-run business and give it money, you get a badly-run business that wastes more money.

We could have got lucky finding the right manager early in Moshiri's time and got away with it. City, Lpool, Chelsea needed a few goes to get the right manager. We blew the money before we found one and couldn't back him.

I hope we get lucky. Frank or his replacement pulls sone rabbits out of a hat. I miss the days when a good manager comes into a club and drives it single-handedly to glory. I'd love them to come back, especially to us. But I can't see it. We're relying on a fool to sell to competent people who do the right things by us. Sad, isn't it?

Jonathan Tasker
263 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:01:07
Happy to get relegated.
Kenwright has won.
I just don’t care anymore
Robert Tressell
264 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:02:07
If we talk of what is now most likely, I fear that Lampard is given time but not financial backing.

That approach only ends one way. When our goose is cooked, Lampard is sacked and replaced with Rooney appointed as a temporary measure to oversee the last 2 or 3 games in the top flight.

We start 2023/24 season in the Championship with either Rooney or a new manager altogether.

Neil Copeland
265 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:03:14
Eddie, I was just about to post something very similar regarding the support. There is an air of betrayal in the supporters minds after the fantastic scenes last season followed by the never to be repeated promise made by the club only to see things get worse.

I try to get to every game if I can and will continue to because, like many others, it’s what I love to do and believe it’s the only way I can have any influence on the team.

The board has a lot to answer for. So do the players but they looked confused against Brighton and I put that down to poor tactics or communication of those tactics. Why does Frank insist on trying to play football with this lot? He did the same last season after we beat Brentford in the cup and then Leeds in the Prem. The team showed they couldn’t do it then and he hasn’t learned the lesson.

I thought Frank had made a big stride forward when he switched tactics to get us battling for points. Either he has forgotten that lesson or is deluded, either way it will cost him his job unless he changes things quickly.

Everton supporters are amongst the best informed there is, we knew what was needed last season and provided in buckets. This season is different because many if not most have had enough and now demanding change. The whole future of the club is at stake, those in charge will get full support if they take the necessary actions.

Neil Lawson
266 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:08:38
James Alder. Tongue in cheek or serious ? Potter could be gone within a fortnight. A far better candidate than others mentioned and he drafted in a number of very capable youngsters tonight who all performed well. Hoping Lampard will pull a rabbit or two out of the hat. Unlikely it seems. However, a battling freak result tomorrow involving at least a couple of fresh faces ( Price/ Simms/ Cannon/Mills ) just might ease his plight provided he has the courage and nouse to build upon it. Straw clutching ? Yep.
Kevin Molloy
267 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:09:53
Potter going could set the whole merry go round in motion. No way West Ham will give us a freerun at any half decent manager, but in snaffling AN Other off us, it will free us to make our move for Davey.
Paul Hewitt
268 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:12:11
Potter wouldn't do anything with this squad. Only Dyche can save us.
Eddie Dunn
269 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:18:04
I jst watched the Chelsea v City game and the young lads Potter brought on were tremendous, they took the game to the Champions in the latter stages and I imagine that the crowd were impressed.
I can't see Potter being fired soon.
Jim Wilson
270 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:19:20
What's likely to happen is Southampton will appoint Dyche next week they will then beat us next week and we will then be bottom and floundering around for a new manager


Neil Copeland
271 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:20:54
If Potter was coming in at the start of preseason with a decent transfer kitty available he would be a decent choice. He likes to play a good brand of football which will not suit our current squad. So, I don’t think he would be a good fit in the current predicament unless we accept relegation in which case I think he could well bring us straight back up.
Tony Abrahams
272 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:26:23
An air of betrayal is a good analogy, and maybe it’s because a lot of fans really wanted Frank Lampard, but he’s letting us down badly, with our lack of drive, our lack of intensity, our lack of in game understanding, and our lack of pride and passion?

We can only turn things around if the players start working hard and fighting for every single ball, whilst playing with loads of personal pride, in every single game, obviously aided by a manager who keeps things simple and demands these very basic fundamentals.

It’s not rocket science, it’s just completely obvious!

Andy Crooks
273 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:26:45
Well, there's the silver lining @ 259. Cheerio, Jonathan.
Tony Everan
274 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:33:16
Potter’s fate could be sealed 15th Jan at home to Palace anything less than a win there and he could be in trouble. They may look at Pochettino who’s already dropped the hint by saying he wants to come back to England.
Tony Abrahams
275 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:34:19
Funny Andy, but I suspect you should have waited until morning has broken! Kenwright has nearly broke me many times Jonathan, and he’s definitely sucked the life out of most of us at different times, hopefully soon he will be removed!
Christy Ring
276 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:34:32
I think we're clutching at straws if anyone thinks Potter would come here if he's sacked by Chelsea. He'll get a massive payoff, and if not put on gardening leave, will wait until the summer, before he makes any decision on his future.
Neil Copeland
277 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:36:46
Tony, there is that little glimmer of hope that you keep us going with!
Jerome Shields
278 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:49:32

Anymore word on a takeover.The whole Club seems to be threading water for some reason.

I recommend everyone register for NSNOW.It is a umbrella organisation.representing all Everton protesters and all Everton protest group, including members of ToffeeWeb.

James Alder
279 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:49:44
Tongue in cheek I’m afraid! I agree that he would probably take the money and sit tight until the summer.
Alan Hines
280 Posted 05/01/2023 at 22:54:16
I felt from the start it was the wrong man. It’s a tough job and Frank is wet behind the ears. In what big job would the owners take such a risk as to sign someone with so little experience and a relatively poor track record.

Let’s be clear. The players are not terrible and Richarlison had a good last few games. The Brighton team have no more international players than we have. We play the wrong system, with the wrong players, and they are drained of confidence.

Frank is a nice man, but he and is coaching staff are out of their depth - apart from whoever is looking after defending set pieces, you can stay.

We can’t bring in Rooney or even big Dunc. To be Frank (but I wouldn’t want to be Frank) I’d take big Sam! Or similar, an experienced manager that can implement a cohesive system and not a team of ball chasing under 12’s!

We need a change. We need experience. We need it fast!

Colin Malone
281 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:00:28
Potter is going nowhere with Chelsea. Martinez is going nowhere.
Unfortunately. In football, nice men / women. Win nothing.
Jerome Shields
282 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:06:04
Apparently there are reports of players attacking the Manager.

Sorry withdraw the above comment ,fell into a click bait trap.

Neil Copeland
283 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:11:37
Jerome, blimey! Verbally or physically?
Brent Stephens
284 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:12:39
Jerome, what type of attacks? What reports? Apparent reports, or actual reports?
Derek Knox
285 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:12:56
Jerome @ 274, " Treading Water " ?

More like Treacle !

Jerome Shields
286 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:16:27

Unreserved apologies to Posters.

Kieran Kinsella
287 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:17:25

Physically? Can you imagine any of our players getting into a scrap? It was probably an attack in the form of sad face emojis on tiktok

Kieran Kinsella
288 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:19:36
After the city game I thought to myself earlier this season Stevie G got a brief reprieve after a defensive draw with City. I didn’t post it on here as I didn’t want to tempt fate but …
Neil Copeland
289 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:22:20
Kieran, ha ha, I was thinking more along the lines of handbags
Christy Ring
290 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:22:22
Kieran it definitely wouldn’t be Iwobi
Jerome Shields
291 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:24:50

Probably a better description-Contracts on hold, no transfer activities, no Club response and Frank's non plus presser.

Laurie Hartley
292 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:42:20
Kevin # 110 - my view is that if we really are owned by Russian Gangsters then the only reason our chairman hasn’t been replaced is because, for what ever reason, it suits them.

Regarding recruitment - we got rid of Allan (32) and brought in Gana (33) for £2m and Onana for £30m. ??? Whose idea was that. That in itself sets alarm bells ringing for me. Personally, I think we would be better off with both Gana and Allan in the team. Water under the bridge.

Regarding the team. The look on Gana’s face when Frank pulled him against City says it all for me. I don’t subscribe to the theory that no manager could get a tune out of our current squad. It just requires a hard nosed character who knows what they are doing.

Twenty games to play and we have 15 points. Six wins and 3 draws will get us over the line. The first of those wins just has to be against Southampton.

Colin Malone
293 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:56:23
Frank. Ever since you came, like Shearer, when Newcastle where in the shit. You both talk the talk and haven't got a clue about walking the walk.

I and thousands of Evertonians, want you to talk to the real supporters on a radio and engage our feelings on your SAME TACTICS.win or lose. Thats going to send us down.

Come on Frank, I challenge you.

Jerome Shields
294 Posted 05/01/2023 at 23:58:13

It is possible that problems with the Football Authorities and attitudes to Russian involvement where foresaw by Moshiri and Usmanov.I have often thought that Kenwright was thought of as a acceptable frontman, who could deal with the Football Authorities and other agencies.

The agreement reached and flexibility shown by Premier Leagues Profit and Sustainability Committee and the fact Sanctions have been avoided would seem to point imo to this being good foresight.The problem I have with this is that if a dependence on Kenwright occurs it could make him harder to get rid off and be a problem in any takeover..

Calling them Gangsters may be a bit extreme though.

Derek Knox
295 Posted 05/01/2023 at 00:02:30
Jerome @ 278, " Apparently there are reports of players attacking the Manager."

Well there has certainly been very few reports of them attacking the Opposition Goal ! :-)

Jerome Shields
296 Posted 06/01/2023 at 00:12:21
Derek a misnomer in more ways than one. It has been a long day.Actually the players attacking anything would be a relief.


Dave Lynch
297 Posted 06/01/2023 at 00:42:56
Brian Wilkinson
298 Posted 06/01/2023 at 01:15:08
Derek, I would be happy if we attacked the oppositions half, let alone opposition goal.
Phil Lewis
299 Posted 06/01/2023 at 02:13:57
Kenwright, Baxendale & Co have surrounded themselves with a buffer zone of 'Yes Men' within the club. I'm astonished at Graeme Sharp's apparent misguided loyalty to them and surprised he hasn't stepped down in the wake of events.

Alan Stubbs has shown not just guts and principle in his stance against the Kenwright regime, but also his heartfelt genuine love of Everton FC. Along with fellow former stalwarts and teammates Kevin Radcliffe Neville Southall and Peter Reid, he has openly criticised the boardroom at Goodison.

Kenwright's reaction to these former real Everton heroes, is to ban them! How utterly disgraceful. Showing just what a worthless deluded narcissistic big baby the man is.

We could hire the greatest most decorated and experienced manager in the world and it wouldn't make the slightest difference to our age old problems, until 'Boys Pen' my arse Kenwright and his little Miss Dynashite are ousted and removed from OUR club once and for all.

Ernie Baywood
300 Posted 06/01/2023 at 02:55:21
What exactly did Alan show? He criticised the club and then put his hand out for his tickets. Then he criticised the club again.

There's a warped view of what people are and aren't doing to bring about change.

Alan Stubbs won't bring about change. Nor will Sharp.

Fans will bring about change by putting pressure on the owner. Not on Bill, or Denise. On Moshiri. He's the one who needs to understand that his investment is being squandered and put at risk. Anyone who has been anywhere near C Suite or Boards will know that he will be presented with a view that is tainted. Accountable people at these levels don't readily expose their own failings.

To get rid of Bill we need Moshiri to understand that his Chairman is not representing the club and the Board's performance accurately.

Target Moshiri. Make him feel uncomfortable in relation to his investment and his responsibilities. Get people involved who understand football management and business structures. Get someone who can string a sentence together to write the open letter.

I don't know who those people are. I understand enough to know that it's not me. I also know enough to understand that it's not the group that put out that open letter recently.

Steve Brown
301 Posted 06/01/2023 at 03:54:30

It is certainly true that both Real Madrid and Chelsea, for example, are absolutely ruthless in sacking managers who don't win trophies every season. They did benefit from large expenditure on squads before the FFP rules were imposed, but they are definitely not financially stable and receive a lot of tolerance from La Liga and the PL. But then, the PL were very supportive of us last season in how we accounted for our debts.

If clubs like Everton just shrug their shoulders and say they are hamstrung by the PL's fair play rules, then you are right that it lets everyone shirk their personal accountability at the club. If we sack Lampard, the choice of manager will be probably the most important decision for the last two decades.

My worry is that the credibility of those making the decision. And that takes us back to the strategy and leadership of the club.

Paul T, I agree with you. The club is not communicating its strategy as it doesn't have a coherent one, or it is evidently failing.

Kieran Kinsella
302 Posted 06/01/2023 at 04:11:47

The problem with fans targeting Moshiri is two-fold.

Firstly, he seems to have gone awol since sanctions on Usmanov and left Kenwright running the show.

Secondly, he was on the fans side of years of protests at Arsenal that yielded nothing so he may view all this as par for the course – especially if Bill is the one filling him in.

The point about Stubbs is that, unlike you or I, he has the status to get invited on national radio to air his view. Whatever his personal grievances, whatever his financial view on buying tickets, he can get exposure that we fans can't. Therefore, he's a useful ally.

John Boswell
303 Posted 06/01/2023 at 04:39:19
I posted on another thread recently that the two board members Moshiri had put into the club had left and not been replaced.

Moshiri himself has not been seen at matches for some time and Chairman Kenwright appears to be supervising a boardroom of 3 acolytes. No wonder the club is in trouble.


Brian Murray
304 Posted 06/01/2023 at 04:49:29
There's a few on here and beyond saying relegation is the only way we will get to replace this board – and maybe that's true.

Unfortunately, we are not a yo-yo club that can take it in our stride. We have not the bottle, the vision, and the plan to bounce back up.

Look at the thought of this 6 weeks and end of last window in working on deals to get us what we need. Frank said, “No, don't be daft. We will just react as always and see how it pans out with Ings or whoever.”

That's his response on the press conference in so many words. A transfer window is just a basic football thing so imagine the shell shock sorting out fire sales and big contracts and the stadium build without the Premier League.

The end is nigh… Kenwright Out!

Danny O’Neill
305 Posted 06/01/2023 at 06:27:14
Darren, I'm going to take that Ian Wright reference @254 as a compliment. But then I've got thick skin!

Fran @250, I'm led to believe, and I will caveat it's all gossip, that Lee Carsley has been approached for a few jobs as he is impressing. But he is apparently more interested in remaining in the youth coaching setup.

I could maybe see him following Southgate's path with England more than going into club management.

Darren Hind
306 Posted 06/01/2023 at 06:51:54

Its a little bit more than tolerance. There are people in Spain still working to try to unearth the true extent of R Madrid's hand outs. Far from being the team who stole the financial march on everyone else. The deep and widely held belief is that they have been propped up by the Government using tax payers money for years. Theres more to come to this.

This is the problem with the "you need a business plan" argument. If you a little, you will find Swiss cheese. Ask how many teams have found sustainable success without good managers and good players and you'll be greeted with silence. Ask how many clubs have found sustainable success purely as a result of the clubs business plan you'll be met with blank looks.

Football is not like any other business. If it was simply about making money or achieving sustainability most of the clubs in the world would have long since folded. Sustainable success has always been about getting good team managers or DOF's and provided them with the resources to bring in players they want...Moshiri has done that in spades. Unfortunately we're Everton. we don't hold managers or DOF's to account. we simply point the finger at the guy who stumps up the dosh..

Every year we seem to look at other clubs who have a little flush of success and scream from the roof tops that we should be like them. I'm still really quite amused that people point to Brentford and their incredibly ambitious seventeen thousand stadium. as a shining example. Fair play to them. Their owner has done a quite remarkable job. Cash strapped, He and his team search meticulously for players who are undervalued, often selling them on at a profit What baffles me is that people want to forget that lack of funds has forced them down this road. They want to call it a "Business strategy".

I'm sorry, but Moyes and Kenwright were doing what they are doing fifteen years ago. at a much higher level and over a longer period...We had a different name for it then.

I have to ask; Are those proclaiming the Brentford "strategy" now going to come on and say TGT's wheeling and dealing was also a business strategy ??? I think not This "You need a business plan to be a successful footy club" argument has a secret switch. It can be turned on and off to suit what ever footy club your talking about.

Paul T

Thank you for saying I was half right. Unfortunately I cant afford you the same courtesy mate. I think you are wrong to point the finger at Moshiri and I think you are even wronger when you dismiss him as a blind gambler looking for a 100/1 shot to save him.

Moshiri and Usmanov made a tidy little packet when selling their Arsenal shares. Moshiri decided to plough his into this club. Only this time he wasnt a minor share holder. Yeah five or six managers have squandered north of 600m of his money on shite players, but you also have to look at what came back in too.

I use the TW transfer slot. It may not be flawless but its put together by Evertonians who pride themselves on getting it right an the figures you see on there are the ones I trust. According to those figures, we have recouped around 350m selling players on Moshiri's watch. If the club decides to sell Pickford and a couple of others the deficit would reduce still further.

Crazed Wild gambler ? You of all people should know better than that. He may have not made the hundred of Zillions Uncle Bill promised he would make, but whether he sells the club before the BMD construction is complete or after, I don't think we need worry about him tapping us on the shoulder trying to cadge his bus fair home.


It wasnt a compliment. It was a matter of fact.

Danny O’Neill
307 Posted 06/01/2023 at 07:20:09
I'm still taking it as a compliment Darren!

I think we can all go around in circles on this debate.

Some think it's down to the manager. Some the players. Others the board and the leadership.

The reality, in my opinion, is it's down to the sum of all parts. But it starts at the top to set the conditions for success.

Brentford, Bournemouth and Brighton are good examples, but personally I prefer to use Manchester City and Chelsea. I would even suggest Manchester United given where they where in the late 80s. Waited 25 years for a league title, had been relegated and were a shadow of Busby's teams and their legacy.

Reinvented themselves as a club, redeveloped Old Trafford, were we will go tonight, and rebuilt a dynasty.

Yes, an excellent manager and top quality players were paramount to that. But it started with the conditions being set from the top to enable that to happen. It wasn't built from the bottom up.

They also held their nerve. I remember an 11th place finish and calls for Ferguson to go.

Echoes of 1983 for us. I'm not suggesting we are in that place right now as I wouldn't dare compare this Everton squad or Lampard to that team and Howard Kendall.

But we held our nerve and stayed with the plan. Unfortunately that plan fell apart in 1987 and we haven't had once since. We don't have one now.

That and the continuous rotation and choice of managers has damaged us.

Dysfunctional club at all levels. But it starts at the top.

I don't want to be negative on matchday as I get ready to travel, but right now I can't help it.

I'll be fine and back to my idiot self once I hit the road.

Svein-Roger Jensen
308 Posted 06/01/2023 at 08:17:09
No other team would still have Lampard as manager, every club down the bottom with shit managers have got rid.

We’re doomed to lose the only thing we have got left over everyone except Arsenal.

Paul Tran
309 Posted 06/01/2023 at 08:31:31
Morning Darren.

You're on to something with your Moyes/Kenwright analogy.

The likes of Brighton & Brentford are indeed doing what we did all those years ago. They have no immediate aspirations for what we would call success, happy to tick along in the top half. Or in our case, top six.

The difference is the frustrating thing for me. Moshiri clearly intends us to be genuinely successful. I admire him for that. Yet we lost our sense of rational prudence and steady building (dithering at its worst!) and went on a rampant free-for-all spending spree.

Of course it's not all his fault. But he's watched this happen and too often he's taking the easy option of sacking the manager rather than looking at the route cause.

Ten Haag is clearly making a difference at Man Utd, who in the last few years have been a richer version of us as a club. I often imagine what someone like that could have done at the start of Moshiri's reign.

Newcastle is an interesting case too. Loads of money, but brought in a good DoF who knew English football, brought in a decent manager and let them get on with it. They bought the key players they needed and are currently doing rather well. By the way, so far you're right about Howe, though I wonder how patient they'll be if he doesn't win anything?

We do need a strong, savvy, talented manager right now. I hope it’s Frank. But if we're going be successful, we need to combine that with a decent structure that does more than throwing money around.

Anyway, I'm thinking of that marvellous cup tie night at Old Trafford in 1977, without comparing our forward and midfield players, then and now. Wouldn't 3-0 be good tonight?

Brian Murray
310 Posted 06/01/2023 at 08:50:41
That useless colour blind Doncoure sitting on a ball in the warm up sums it all up
Tony Abrahams
311 Posted 06/01/2023 at 09:04:01
I think I understand and know about Everton football club. I was walking home from Goodison the other night, and some fella told me that we should stick with Lampard because there isn’t nobody better, and he just couldn’t understand why the fans were shouting for the removal of the board.

‘Scaramanga- where’ve you been’ I asked, ‘don’t you realize what Bill Kenwright, has done to Everton Football club, over many, many years?’ ‘He’s better than Peter Johnson’, he replied, ‘that bastard was ripping us off for years’🤦‍♂️Honestly, Everton, had just knocked the stuffing out of me, I couldn’t be arsed with this clown, but it didn’t stop me taking off my glasses - now needed for watching the match, and putting them in my pocket.

‘Go and do your homework lad because if you don’t understand how Bill Kenwright has operated for many years, then this is why the horrible twat is still getting away with it’ I said and just walked ahead of him totally bemused.

I agree that these pundits can tell me nothing about Everton, but if 30/40% of the crowd, are still behind Bill Kenwright, then if the words of Wright and Shearer the other night, can convince even 1% of people to look a lit bit deeper into our club, then that could be another 150 match going blues, who now realize what is going on, and if they can each convince a couple of their mates, then that’s another 450 people turning against the most divisive man in the history of Everton Football Club. (Nah it’s all on Moshiri, is what they’ll probably think)

I know some people might say that I thought I knew about Everton, and that it’s clear that Rafa Benitez is the most divisive man, ever employed by our club! Don’t kid yourself, I’ll reply, because you’re definitely not fucking kidding me!!

Tony Abrahams
312 Posted 06/01/2023 at 09:16:05
Ernie, Alan Stubbs, criticized the running of the club, and I’m sure he can find another way of getting a ticket for Everton. He was basically telling everyone what Bill Kenwright does, when he gets criticized.

A man who has never kicked a ball for Everton, told people inside the club, to stop giving tickets to a man who once captained Everton, out on the football pitch, because he had been critical towards our chairman (conniving bastard of a chairman) on the radio.

I personally think Stubbs is just highlighting the bigger picture now, and anyone who genuinely wants to, will be able to see that this is how Bill Kenwright, has always operated at Everton?

I have always called it Nepotism, but maybe it’s a lot more sinister than this?

Craig Walker
313 Posted 06/01/2023 at 09:18:37
If/when Frank goes then Dyche would be my preference out of the names being banded about. I think there are certain Everton fans who think we are too good for certain managers and players. Like gloating when we signed Onana and not Longstaff. We aren't too good. Not anymore. I think we need to revert to pragmatic, dogs-of-war types not show ponies parading in their Lambourginis who don't give a shit.

I loved Martinez at first but if he comes back, we will be relegated. He can't organise a defence. He doesn't look at defending set pieces or practise them. We will play sideways and backwards football without a decent target man.

His first season was the last time we were consistently good (until the last few games) but towards the end of his tenure we were atrocious. Remember the Anfield humiliation and the drubbing at Leicester when they got the trophy? Nice guy. Good philosophy on paper but it will not work with the players we have currently.

At least Dyche would get his teams playing with a bit of effort. They beat us in that 6-pointer at Turf Moor last season when he turned the game around at half-time. I wouldn't mind some of that spirit at Everton.

My preference would be to back Lampard with 3 new players and some creativity and goal threat and offload some more deadwood but I think we'll lose tonight and we'll have a new manager in place before the Southampton game.

Nick Page
314 Posted 06/01/2023 at 10:10:53
There is no fucking way Moyes/Kenwright were doing what Brentford do now. That’s just pure lazy analysis. Brentford have a system which has been well developed and refined over years (can our Brentford reader add to this regarding their chairman) - it’s called Moneyball. Michael Lewis wrote an excellent book on the subject; it involves statistical analysis to plug gaps where you see them in a system. It took them a while to get it going but it works. FSG also use this, and that why the Red Sox won a few World Series. That’s also why the shite have a massive hit rate in the transfer market. They just do it on a bigger scale. Moyes was cash constrained at Everton - we all know that - thus had to dig around and to be fair to him he did and was fairly successful. But not that successful. He was best of the rest before the rest got really smart. His record vs the Sky 6, especially away from home was diabolical and Brentford just beat City away and murdered the shite at home. At the same time, there were other clubs in the league outside the Sky clubs winning trophies. We made ONE final. Thomas Frank doesn’t take knives to a gunfight cos he has a system. Anyway, Everton under Moyes still had one of the highest wage bills in the league and Kewnright was in no way responsible for setting up a lasting legacy of buy-low/sell-high with an extensive scouting network and analysts. It was purely needs must basis and any comparison is purely coincidental. Matthew Benham is an Oxford graddie in physics who owns and runs Smartodds. He applied all his research and analytical capabilities to FC Midtiylland, a tiny club in Denmark who now are winning the league in vs the establishment and compete in ECL. They have a reputation for finding talent. He was once employed by and worked for Tony Bloom. These City of London finance guys aren’t Bill fucking Kenwright. They’re super aggressive and smart bastards who understand the value of money. I suggest anyone who thinks there is even a remote similarity pulls their head out their arse and does some proper research.
Laurie Hartley
315 Posted 06/01/2023 at 10:35:57
Andrew # 129 - I think you’re wrong about Farhad Moshiri not having the money to finish the stadium. Sure, he is looking for investment but according to Forbes his current net worth is about £2.45 billion.

So it seems to me he could finish it with his own money if he wanted to.

Stephen Davies
316 Posted 06/01/2023 at 10:45:52
#Laurie 310
Being worth £2.45bn and having the cash to pay for something are two different things. Much of his wealth is tied up in shares given to him by his mate.
Jonathan Tasker
317 Posted 06/01/2023 at 10:47:20
It’s pleasing to see so much anti Kenwright sentiment on here.
Kenwright is the worst thing to have hit Everton since 1878.
When he goes, I’m hopeful the good times will return.
Jerome Shields
318 Posted 06/01/2023 at 11:02:30
Nick the only method at Everton is a trading formula that made one man rich.Everything else just fitted around that formula to keep the money rolling to his door.There is no strategic plan,there is no effective structure,there is no accountability and nobody capable of preparing a football team for consistent results to win any competition and they are all getting big money to comply.

This goes right back to when Kenwright was on the Board with Johnson.On top of that the commercial side was and is a joke.( excluding the Stadium Development, which they appear to have nothing to do with.).This continued with the Moshiri takeover and is likely to continue, even if Moshiri sells all or part of his shares.The whole Club is a hodgepodge of dated ideas, based on a mythical Everton DNA that only those that witnessed the 1980s can pretend they can implement, under a even more dated heading' the School of Science'. They have titles that are meaningless in practical performance and result terms.He even thinks we are all our brother.Well he would, we made him rich.

Put a beggar on horseback and he will ride to hell.

Darren Hind
319 Posted 06/01/2023 at 14:13:56
Lol Wiki comes to TW

The fact that Billy Beane's story was turned into turned into show did not mean his ideas were ground breaking or pioneering. Michael Lewis not creating. He was observing and relaying. Beane`s idea's had already been practiced in many different variations in just about every team sport in the world.

To suggest that Brentford are the only team in England who have followed this path is just plain misguided.

"Shrewd value driven management of the the most important asset - The players."... Think about what that actually means.

For all his cowardly faults TGT understood it better better than most.

He was bringing in higher caliber of players than anything Brentford have brought in and he was doing it on close to zero net spend. He was also doing it 15 years ago....Whether people like it or not.

Kenwright didnt fall in love with Moyes due to his shiny Ginger locks. He fell in love with him because he made it possible to become "best of the rest" without him having to put his hands in his deep deep pockets.

Between the pair of them they managed to convince many people that that was the best Evertonians could expect- The introduction of the glass ceiling. Frugal management was right up both their streets. This was the only gig in our town

Here's the thing; The ginger twat was not even the first to follow this so called "Strategy" of researching players, valuing them, signing them and developing players - It used to be called Wheeling and dealing

Appreciate, applaud and congratulate what Brentford have a achieved, but lets not show ignorance by claiming what they are doing is ground breaking or Pioneering. They wiil be aware that their job is only half done. The next part is to sustain it. Resist predators and stay in the EPL.

Strategy, for me at least, is a pretentious word when used by footy fans Their clubs so called strategy will merely be action generally born out of necessity. Such is the case with Brentford just as it was with such was with TGT when he was was forced to founf himself having to practice Frugal analytical player management.

The simple fact is; He WAS doing what Brentford are doing. He WAS doing it about fifteen years before them. He WAS doing it without DOF's. And he WAS doing it at a higher level and with better players than todays Brentford...Pity he was such a Frankie Howard. He could have been a semi decent manager.

I'm glad that these supporters groups have put together a such a calm rational letter to Moshiri. I think they have much more chance of bringing about Kenwrights exit than any of the ill informed screamers who are invading all aspects of social media.

These people are more likely to ensure Kenwright gathers support and stays.

Nick Page
320 Posted 06/01/2023 at 15:17:52
It’s a nice write up Darren, thanks. I never said Brentford were pioneering although they were likely one of the first to use Moneyball consistently and without emotion. But it’s a load of rubbish comparing them to Moyes/Kenwright. As we sat in the markets, it’s apples to oranges. Cheers
John Hood
321 Posted 06/01/2023 at 15:24:57
Just caught up with this thread.
Re Nick Page, post 314:Matthew Benham is the owner of BFC,but not the Chairman.
Otherwise you are mainly correct.
When BFC started their quiet revolution,most experts and pundits forecast disaster.They did away with the manager's role,closed the Academy,got rid of traditional scouts,appointed D.O.F.s,started the B team and hired the best mathematicans available to do the number-crunching.The experts were wrong."Moneyball" is a term that Benham hates but obviously the process is very data driven.Hence the signings of Konsa,Watkins,Maupay,Benrahma,Tarkowski,Woods et al for peanuts and sale for huge profit.
All this takes years of planning and patience...Frank won 1 of his first 10 matches in charge but was never under any pressure as the underlying stats were positive.
Best of luck for the rest of the season.A club with Everton's wonderful history should not be in this position.
Nick Page
322 Posted 06/01/2023 at 16:13:24
Thanks for that John!! Very gracious of you. Good to have other voices on here too, rather than us lot just bickering with each other, lol.

Good luck to Brentford too, i'm a big fan of the club/process as you can probably tell. I'm hoping to bring my youngest to a game this year (he's a big of bees too, don't ask) which I think he will really enjoy.

Darren Hind
323 Posted 06/01/2023 at 16:31:40
Hi John

I know a couple of Brentford fans, so I was aware Benham resented the term Moneyball, but I do have a question if you don't mind.

The managers role ? is it not just different terminology ? I noticed you mentioned this in your first post, so I tried several searches. Everytime T Frank came back as Manager. He is even referred to as Manager in a piece on your official website. I also note he's up for the EPL manager of the month award. How does that work ?

Could you explain the difference in his role to say Arteta or Lampard ?


I hated TGT being our manager. I hated the glass ceiling, but it would be churlish to deny the things he was good at. He brought in some absolute gems from all over the place some proved incredibly good value for money. He was the epitome of Value driven management of players. He was so meticulous in his research and evaluation of players he would sometimes take too long and miss out.

Thats how he got the nick name Dithering Dave lol.

You'll notice I don't give Kenwright any credit at all. Thats because all he had to do was sit there and be a tight MF He was born to play that part.

He'll be gone soon lad.

John Hood
324 Posted 06/01/2023 at 17:46:25
Hi Darren
I think refering to T.F. as Manager is mainly lazy journalism,but surprised that any official BFC site calls him that.
As I understand it,Frank's sole responsibility is the first team squad and performance.Identification of possible signings is the responsibility of the data analysts and D.O.F.Obviously TF would be consulted about any transfers but does not have a veto.Matters relating to contracts are also for the DOF.This allows TF and his coaches to do what they do best,work out ways of reducing Mr Klopp to impotent rage.
When BFC started down this road,they were not the first but certainly the smallest
..All the experts who said "It'll never work in England" have been made to look very foolish.
Obviously there is a lot more to it than just the above but that is the gist.
Hope this useful.

Tony Abrahams
325 Posted 06/01/2023 at 18:15:01
I realized the other day whilst speaking to my mate why I hated David Moyes, in the end. He could have helped us get rid of Kenwright, in a similar way that Benitez helped to turn the Liverpool fans against Hicks & Gillette, but David chose to stay in bed with Kenwright, because he was getting his bread buttered so wonderfully.
Nick Page
326 Posted 06/01/2023 at 18:23:51
Thanks Darren. I really hope he is gone soon. Everything crossed. I’m sick to death of it. Totally agree on the dithering Dave thing too. Do you think he has say over West Ham recruitment? I’m surprised they’ve fallen off so much this year but he normally has two seasons in one - he did with us anyway - although lack of goals is always an issue with him. Got the father in law (Man U) coming round tonight to watch the game. Should be fun.

One other question for you? I think we tried to copy Atletico Madrid (don’t know why that sticks in my head) as they have had a lot of success being best of the rest in Spain. Is that the manager or the process or both, do you think? Benfica have also had a ton of success selling players but I guess that’s due to their standing in Portugal where they don’t actually mind being a stepping stone type club?


Paul Tran
327 Posted 06/01/2023 at 18:42:23
Darren #323, spot-on regarding Dithering Dave. When I did some work at Man City, the scouting staff told me that whenever we were interested in a player, it sparked their interest because they knew Davey would dither!

A West Ham supporting mate asked me about him when he joined. I told him he'd get them in the top eight, then they'd need to replace him.

Chris Jenkins
328 Posted 06/01/2023 at 19:58:56
I would argue that the barrage of criticism aimed at Frank Lampard is mainly unjustified. People very easily forget that in a few short months last year he managed to turn things around and avoid relegation which was looking increasingly likely under Benitez.

Many contributors to these columns have criticised the quality of signings since Frank was appointed without any evidence that he was the prime mover behind these acquisitions. It is perfectly conceivable that he identified the positions which needed strengthening and it was Thelwell who chose the players. The finance available for strengthening the team, by all accounts, was very was limited.

Similarly the many critics of Bill Kenwright who attribute the club's present precarious position entirely to him have short memories. It was Kenwright who rescued the club from the clutches of Peter Johnson. It is well documented that, at significant personal risk, he mortgaged himself very heavily to help find a significant part of the funds to pay Johnson off. The partnership which Kenwright formed with David Moyes saw the club punching well above it's weight for many years despite very little finance being available for improving the playing staff. Yes, of course he's made mistakes, he's only human like the rest of us but much of the criticism, including the minority Bastille mob type comments and calls for his head, is unfair and unjustified.

I very much hope that Frank Lampard is given significant funds during this window, is able to bring in his own choice of quality strikers and get the club moving back up the table. I feel sure that he has the required ability and that, with a fair wind and the necessary slice of luck, he can go on to be a very successful Everton manager.

If, however, Frank is removed the choice of replacement will be crucially important. For experience and ability to steady the ship, arguably the best choice would be David Moyes. For youth and hopefully the future, a bold appointment would be former blue, Steven Schumacher, who is currently doing a very impressive job at Plymouth Argyle. If a new manager is appointed, that person must insist that the Director of Football position at the club is abolished; it has been an unmitigated disaster thus far.


Gerry Quinn
329 Posted 07/01/2023 at 16:00:06
Darren Hind
330 Posted 07/01/2023 at 19:42:59

Sorry mate. You'll probably know, we suffered another reverse last night and I forgot this thread.

Thanks for your response.

Enjoy the rest of the season. Except of course, when you play us

Barry Hesketh
331 Posted 08/01/2023 at 01:24:12
According to John Richardson of the Mirror (22:00, 7 Jan 2023)

Struggling Everton and Southampton are eyeing moves for former Burnley boss Sean Dyche if they decide to make a change.

Dyche, who was sacked by the Clarets after nine-and-a-half years in charge despite performing miracles at Turf Moor, has been waiting for a Premier League club to entice him back to the front line. That opportunity could be approaching, with Frank Lampard at Everton and Nathan Jones, who only took over at St Mary’s in November from Ralph Hasenhuttl, under severe pressure.

Ironically, the two relegation-threatened clubs meet at Goodison Park on Saturday 14 January – a must-win fixture for both managers, if they last that long. Dyche, who constantly had Burnley punching above their weight, has admirers in both boardrooms and the fact that he is immediately available is a huge advantage

Ed Prytherch
332 Posted 08/01/2023 at 01:36:47
Chris 328. Are you sure that Kenwright "mortgaged himself" and took personal risk to gain control of Everton FC? He may have told that story but I was under the impression that it was other people who put up the money to buy out HFW.
Eric Myles
333 Posted 08/01/2023 at 08:15:54
Chris #328, as it's so well documented can you please tell us

1. How much was the value of BK's shareholding in TBH?

2. How much did he raise from the mortgage of his house?


Sam Hoare
334 Posted 08/01/2023 at 08:38:41
Lampard now has the worst points per match record of any Everton manager in the 21st century.

Yes there are extenuating circumstances and the squad has been weakened by years of unstructured and short termist recruitment but nonetheless Lampard has not got a song out of them after a year. And there is very little evidence he will. He’s an inexperienced manager whose setups are questionable and seems to be incapable of making in game changes with beneficial effect.

A nice guy. But no real evidence that he’s a good manager.

The following managers are free and would very possibly be better, though the first few are likely not gettable:

Pochettino, Tuchel, Gallardo, Enrique, Tite.

And the ones who probably are gettable:

Seoane, Marcelino, Dyche, Bordalas, Hutter, Bosz, Villa Boas, Bielsa, Tata.

And that’s just the free ones!

Personally I like Marcelino and think he’d do a good job. But there’s loads out there who are more experienced than Frank and capable of getting just a bit more out of this rabble.

Dave Abrahams
335 Posted 08/01/2023 at 08:45:52
Chris (328),

His house which you say he mortgaged? He must have lived in St George's Hall...

There is also a vast difference between mistakes and the numerous (proven) lies the man has told since he became the owner of Everton FC.

Nick Page
336 Posted 08/01/2023 at 09:13:39
Chris @328, this is the most idiotic post I’ve seen yet in the recent history of TW regarding Bill Kenwright. Take a bow. Do you believe everything you’re told? The complete inability to look at the facts staring you square in the face is truly remarkable. How big was Bill Kenwrights remortgaged house you speak of. How much did he stump up? Or did he put up his house as collateral or perhaps Bill Kenwright Productions? Whilst it’s possible, I highly highly doubt this from a man who is a proven liar. He didn’t “save” Everton - we were never in trouble. The whole Peter Johnson thing is a myth of Kenwrights making- he left the club in a solid financial position I seem to remember. It’s a story designed to pull you into his world of make believe. I could go but I can’t be bothered -
It’s pitiful.
Brian Murray
337 Posted 08/01/2023 at 09:24:47
Nick, awhile we have deluded fans like this it makes it that much harder to prise our club from his sweaty egotistical inept grasp. But momentum is swinging big time with also ex players involved as I’m sure you know. New Everton awaits
Tony Abrahams
338 Posted 08/01/2023 at 09:34:57
I’m sure this is definitely not the first time that Chris has very eloquently posted this over the last few days?

Our club has lost its soul - but hopefully we can start to rebuild it - once we get rid of the two lost souls swimming in a fishbowl?

Danny O’Neill
339 Posted 08/01/2023 at 09:44:26
Chris, I always read and listen, often learn from other people's views.

You make some good points about Kenwright and when he initially took over.

But in the longer and bigger scheme of things, we've had a failing board for decades.

Bill has been on the board since 1989. Just 2 years since we last won the league. Moyes was appointed 7 years after our last trophy. When we won the FA Cup in 1984 it had been 14 years since our last trophy; the league title that was achieved 15 years after 1970.

It's now approaching 36 years and 28 years. 36 years since we lifted a European trophy. Everton as a football club, based on it's previous standards has been failing.

I respect your views Chris, but the comment about Everton punching above our weight symbolises the expectation set by the institution overseen by Kenwright for too long. Keep the masses happy with low expectation has almost been a strategy.

Moyes has West Ham level on points with Everton and is only one place above us by virtue of one goal (GD).

He flopped massively at United. Embarrassed himself in Spain. Got Sunderland relegated and there is a good chance he might get relieved of his West Ham duties for the second time.

I can't personally get my head around how he can be the answer to our immediate problems if we decide to change manager.

Joe McMahon
340 Posted 08/01/2023 at 10:00:23
Danny, you are absolutely spot on there. But I have a question to you and all Evertonians our there, as I genuinely don't know.

Yes the European ban effected Everton abd the timing was dreadful for our best team since "Adam was a lad". But why did the club go into demise as the ban effected everyone. Surely it wasn't all about Kendal leaving and I was impressed at the signings that Harvey made. Did we hang onto Sharp and Nev too long? Was enough spent on new playing staff? Well Cottee cost a lot but his signing was a success.

Appreciate any information.

Brian Murray
341 Posted 08/01/2023 at 10:13:13
Joe. Well we have never done dynasties when we where dominating. We are and always have been a very reactionary club. As for post 1987 champions season we sat on our hands and Liverpool signed Beardsley Barnes and Aldridge. Ours never in that class mcall nevin McDonald and so on so that was the beginning of the end as a force then sky started and enter mr kenright and his new Everton with Walter smith and 11 years with his mate Moyes. Times. Are a changing Hope so for the next generation eh !
Darren Hind
342 Posted 08/01/2023 at 10:21:06
Tony 338

How I wish.
How I wish they were'nt here

Danny O’Neill
343 Posted 08/01/2023 at 10:28:57
My personal view Joe and drawing on hindsight. I've been as much a fool as anyone following this club and ignoring what is now obvious for too long.

The European ban still hurts deeply and impacted us more than any club at the time. It definitely soured my relationship with the cousins. But apparently if we mention it, we're considered bitter. I don't swear often, but fuck off and carry on with your airbrushing of history is my general sentiment. One of the best teams in Europe of the time denied the opportunity to compete in the premier UEFA competition having already won a European trophy. Because of them.

But, the deeper lying problem is that as English champions for the second time in 3 years, narrowly missing out on a 3 in a row achievement, we failed to plan and capitalise on the position we were in.

All English clubs wrongly suffered from the 5 year European ban. That should only have applied to the perpetrators alone in my view. But it didn't stop the likes of United, Arsenal and Liverpool thinking ahead and planning for the future. Even Chelsea, a pretty average club at the time were thinking ahead. Newcastle as well and Villa started the redevelopment of their stadiums. Okay, the latter 2 have had their moments and time down under, but as clubs they are established names and it's looking good for Newcastle right now.

We can blame that ban all we want and I don't for one minute consider that it didn't play a part. But we stood still as a club. We won the league and signed Ian Wilson and the board seemingly thought we'd be okay because of our history. Scrap that song by the way. It's used by Celtic and Tottenham anyway.

We will finally move to a new stadium but with a bit of vision and realising who we are, could have moved 30 years ago or even redeveloped Goodison in the same way that Tottenham have done at White Hart Lane.

I don't like being negative, but it really hurst me to see how this club has been run. Maybe I'm partly to blame for that for following blindly and trying to stay optimistic. Sadly, that won't stop or change. They've got me whether they like it or not and I'm getting ready for the weekend.

So not much information there Joe, just a ramble and an opinion.

Darren Hind
344 Posted 08/01/2023 at 10:37:13

We were a complete shambles in the boardroom even back then. HK's success was in spite of that. not because of it.

We fell from grace when a few of our better players left to play in Europe. Colin Harvey signed what seemed to be the best available to replace them.

Pat Nevin was a good player, but he was never going to replace Tricky Trev.

Tony Cottee was the best striker available, but he was never as good as Sharp or Lineker.

Neill McDonald wasnt a bad player, but he was no Gary Stevens.

Colin Harvey had rotten luck with injuries and although in many peoples eyes, he was our best ever player. It has to be accepted that he was never as comfortable managing the players as he was coaching them.

When Sky and the premier league came along, Tory boy Carter and the rest of the board dwelled at the starting blocks as other clubs disappeared into the distance.

To stick with Tony A`s theme. No one told us when to run. We missed the starting gun

Joe McMahon
345 Posted 08/01/2023 at 10:38:40
Thanks Danny and Brian, that all makes sense. It's the not having a plan and strategy biting us on the arse again.

Brian Harrison
346 Posted 08/01/2023 at 10:44:20
I can only assume that with Frank still in his job the owners have either been unable to persuade anybody to take the job or they are going to Give Frank the Southampton game to try and turn things around. This despite him having as poor a record as any Everton manager, only weeks ago he said that after where we finished last season he expected us to be relatively were we are now. Surely its the job of a manager to improve things not expect them to stay the same, Howe took Newcastle from being in the bottom 3 for long periods last season to competing for a Champions league place. Now I am sure some will point out that Howe was given money to spend, well lets not forget Frank brought in 8 players in the summer and 5 of those players played in the Man Utd game. But lets take a look at a team who haven't spent a lot, Fulham who weren't even in the premier league last season yet sit comfortably in just above mid table with mainly the same group of players they had in the Championship.

It comes as no surprise that Villa and Wolves who replaced their managers prior to the World Cup starting and allowing them 6 weeks to work with the majority of their is starting to reap rewards. Villa sacked Gerrard despite him having won the league with Rangers and like Frank having a stellar playing career, but they appointed Emery who is experienced and has a good track record. Same with Wolves appointed an experienced manager in Lopategui ( sorry about the spelling). I believe we should have done something similar and would have maybe had a bigger pool of managers to choose from. I think if we beat Southampton which I hope we do with Frank in charge, then irrespective what results happen after that sacking Frank will no longer be an option and also the Jan window will have only days left, so no chance of a new manager buying a couple of players to try and turn things around.

I have no faith that we can avoid the drop if we stick with Frank, he has had money to spend unlike his predecessor and our best player on his day is 1 of Benítez's signings. I can think of an Everton manager who has steered the club into the bottom 3 and is still in his job.

Danny O’Neill
347 Posted 08/01/2023 at 10:45:25
My view that I've expressed previously on all of those signings Darren. No need to repeat myself, you've covered it.
Brian Harrison
348 Posted 08/01/2023 at 11:11:28
Joe 340

Darren and Danny have covered many of the reasons why we never recovered from being banned from Europe, not by UEFA but by our own Prime minister who unilaterally took this decision. But for me our biggest mistake was not getting a guarantee that when the ban was lifted we were 1 of the nominated teams to compete in the Champions league irrespective of our league position. Then we could have had the added bonus of offering Champions league football to prospective new players, and we know how much players want Champions league football.

Going back to why that team became less of a threat was both Trevor and Gary Stevens wanted to test themselves in the Champions league and at that time Rangers could offer them that and match the salaries they were getting at Everton. Howard also wanted to try his luck elsewhere and you couldn't blame him, and that left Colin Harvey in charge. For me Colin was the best coach this club has ever had, his day to day involvement on the training ground working with and improving the players was his strength and not the management side of the job. I will never ever forgive Southall his disgraceful behaviour of not going off the pitch at half time instead just sat with his back to the goalpost. Colin was going through a rough patch and didn't need that reaction from still at thet time the Worlds best goalkeeper. Funny when you look at the position of our team now and to think as well as being a great manager, a great coach, Colin was sacked and I think we were 6th in the league when he was sacked. Just highlights how much standards have dropped..

Colin Glassar
349 Posted 08/01/2023 at 11:13:18
Darren and Danny, great posts. I would go a bit further back in time to pinpoint the beginning of Everton’s demise ie Catterick losing his mind and breaking up the 69-70 champions team, selling Alan Ball on the cheap and John Moores dumping us for the dark side.

Despite being just a kid at the time I still remember feeling that something bad was going to happen to Everton and despite some “good times” we’ve never really recovered from the dark days of the early 1970’s.

Jeff Armstrong
350 Posted 08/01/2023 at 11:36:48
Brian 348, Neville did go off at half time but came out early and sat at the post, apparently he wasn’t impressed with the team talk so got off, your right though,not what Colin needed at the time from a senior pro.
Dave Abrahams
351 Posted 08/01/2023 at 11:44:57
Tony (338) You have to believe in the immortality of the soul, sadly there there are good and bad souls, I hope where Everton are concerned the good souls get rid of the bad ones, very soon!!
Joe McMahon
352 Posted 08/01/2023 at 12:02:11
Brain@348, Yes I forgot about that, I think it was against Leeds. Like you say not ideal for Colin (one of the nice guys of them game)
Derek Cowell
353 Posted 08/01/2023 at 14:27:19
Colin at 349.

Not recovered since early 70s. Really?

84 to 89, 6 cup finals, 2 titles, 1 FA Cup and 1 Euro trophy.

Sounds like a recovery to me!

Real demise has been since start of Premier League and made worse under Kenwright.

Robert Leigh
354 Posted 08/01/2023 at 15:49:17
Wait for Potter to be sacked by Chelsea, our best bet!!
Rob Halligan
355 Posted 08/01/2023 at 16:00:02
Just been reading that Chelsea have lost five from their last eight games, the same record that Lampard had when he was sacked by Chelsea, and around the same time of year as well. Should Chelsea lose to Man City today, will Chelsea pull the trigger on Potter?
Tony Everan
356 Posted 08/01/2023 at 16:09:25
I think they’ll be considering Pochettino for Chelsea.

….Always a sad day when we’re not in the fourth round draw.

Joe McMahon
357 Posted 08/01/2023 at 16:14:44
Tony, I agree, but Everton keep getting Old Trafford or Anfield. Its never even ever at Goodison.

Plus we also don't get the decisions seen last night v Wolves.

Kevin Molloy
358 Posted 08/01/2023 at 16:30:47
Chelsea complaining that their preparations for the game vs city have been overshadowed by speculation linking their manager with the soon to be vacant position at Goodison Park.
Tony Abrahams
359 Posted 08/01/2023 at 16:32:37
Different track Darren, but only one man, has thoroughly - amused himself to death.

Oh dear what have we become!

Martin Mason
360 Posted 08/01/2023 at 16:52:17
Derek@353 He was correct really but what he said could be misinterpreted, we had a very wonderful and in many ways fortuitous and very short lived recovery in the mid 80's under Kendal1 but in reality, the club never recovered from the collapse of the wonderful 1970 Championship winning team.
I saw the wonderful 60's and 1970 teams and the implosion that happened in the 70's, for my sins I missed the 1980's successes as I was working in Indonesia. The implosion since then has of course been a tragedy for us Blues but the club went from being a big club to a small club in the 70's. Apparently we were still pretty broke during those heady times in the 80's.
This year could shepherd in the end of the club, I don't feel that we could survive relegation? It would answer the question about BK, perhaps the man who eventually destroyed the club.
Kieran Kinsella
361 Posted 08/01/2023 at 16:57:00
The decline began when Geary got injured and the board didn’t replace him and we went from champions to losers as I’m sure John McFarlane and Dave Abrahams may recall.
Colin Glassar
362 Posted 08/01/2023 at 17:17:20
Potter can wander off after this game. His Chelsea team play like a bunch of Hogswarts, Slytherin all over he place. Maybe the ginger fella from WHU can save them
Tony Abrahams
363 Posted 08/01/2023 at 20:21:14
Did they get us to trade - our heroes for ghosts - or did Kenwright trade his lead role - to put the mighty Everton into a cage.

We are cursed - cursed I say - bloody fucking cursed.

It’s coming up to 28 years without a trophy - Kenwright is a magician, who has made a lot of people believe - that Everton have never really existed to win.

We could have become a Leeds, a Blackburn or a Forest - Be thankful for Our Saviour - the man who never took a penny - but became a multi, multi, multi millionaire.

Don’t blame it on the good times - just blame it on the bogeyman.


Tony Abrahams
364 Posted 08/01/2023 at 20:40:10
But there is only one winner for me Darren, unfortunately mate.

Through the fish-eyed lens of tear strained eyes
I can barely define the shape of this moment in time
but far from flying high in clear BLUE skies
I’m spiralling down to the hole in the ground where I hide

We need to find hope from somewhere Darren, before the disastrous reign of Bill Kenwright, leaves us with one final humongous Final Cut

Dennis Stevens
365 Posted 08/01/2023 at 20:41:46
I think it was in Harvey's book that he mentioned the Board considering selling Bellefield in order to provide further transfer funds for Kendall Mk I. It lends some credence to the idea that the Club had been in somewhat of a steady decline through the '70s, after the heady Mersey Millionaire days & that the success of the mid '80s was rather in spite of the the way the Club was run rather than an outcome of being a well run Club.
Paul Hewitt
366 Posted 08/01/2023 at 21:01:12
The decline of this club started when them Bastard's over the park got us banned from European competition.
Derek Thomas
367 Posted 08/01/2023 at 21:02:41
Brian Harrison @348; Sacked in 6th position eh...or it could be said that Southall was just sitting there to get his thoughts in order Re. his 2013 comment about 'how we're being conned to think 6th is success'.

It probably was not the best thing he could've done, but Nevs never been one for mincing his words...and he was right.

He saw it way back then - its worse now

Edit: Colin @349; The 1970 team wasn't broken up - it fell apart.

Post world Cup fatigue? Serious drop off in 'form'...West?

A steady (over 3 or 4 seasons) crop of long term injuries starting with Labone.

Then add in Cattericks Increasing average transfers in and his failing health.

There is a good case to be made that his last decent signing was Kendall in 1967

Anyway, all under the bridge now.

Barry Hesketh
368 Posted 08/01/2023 at 21:20:08
Paul and Dennis have made valid points about the decline of Everton FC, there is no doubt that the European ban had a detrimental effect on the club, particularly with trying to attract sponsors who were household names at that time. United and the other lot were already ahead of us in that area and had been for a few years.

Complacency at board level was and has always been our major problem, because if the club needed to bolster the squad they only had to ask Sir John and providing he was satisfied, he'd make the loans that the club required. Although even back then we had to sell to buy, for example Steve McMahon was sold to raise the money to purchase Trevor Steven and there were times when Everton FC had to get players on loan, to fill gaps in the squad. I'm not certain but I don't remember whether our peers at the time were as involved in taking players on loan.

When Everton won the FA Cup in 1984, the players wanted their just rewards and some I seem to remember, perhaps Southall and Sharp, were seriously contemplating putting in transfer requests, if the club didn't pay them what they thought they were worth. Kendall had to persuade the board to increase the wages for some players and the rest is history.

From certain perspectives Kenwright et al have only carried on the traditions of the club, unfortunately those traditions aren't very useful in this modern era, and even though Moshiri pumped in the funds to help move us forward, we've found that the administrative and managerial foundations of the club are as Ian Wright described it "Built on Sand" which rather worryingly is what the new stadium is built on?

Brian Murray
369 Posted 08/01/2023 at 21:20:25
Wasn’t Nevs sit down protest a first game of the season. Hardly pressure mounting from a bad run it’s just southalls idea of Everton and standards are completely different to the match going fans who clap the sight of the chairman’( hate even saying his name ) on the screen or mentions of Moyes as if we yearn for years if no wins at arsenal chelsea or derbies., Before Barry rathbone etc says yeah but it’s better than now well that’s hardly the point. No coincidence the ex players are banned or not welcomed at goodison except the pay roll nodding heads.
Tony Abrahams
370 Posted 08/01/2023 at 21:25:15
Only two and a half years before the Heysel stadium disaster, Evertonians were having a whip-round to try and help the club buy Terry Curren, because we were absolutely skint.

I didn’t agree with what Southall did against Leeds, on the opening day of the season Brian, but looking back his head was gone, because he knew we had replaced some of our best players, with average players, and his team was rapidly going backwards.

Barry Hesketh
371 Posted 08/01/2023 at 21:33:00
Brian @ 369
If I'm remembering corectly it was the opening fixture of the 1990/91 season, the previous season Everton had finished in sixth place and Southall obviously wanted to see the results improve. I'm still not certain what he thought he was doing or why, but his action didn't help the early season results as Everton only claimed one league victory until the club decided to change tact at the end of October and re-appointed Howard Kendall as manager.


Eric Myles
372 Posted 09/01/2023 at 05:20:19
Chris #328, as you don't seem to have the documents to hand I'll answer my questions for you.

1. The value of BKs shares in TBH at the time of purchase was £7 million

2. The money BK raised on his mortgage was £1 million (50% of the value). However this was two years BEFORE he bought his shares in the Club.

What IS well documented is where BK got the £7 million from to purchase his shareholding.

The only things documented about how BK rescued us from PJ at great personal risk to himself has come from BK himself but the facts don't support this.

Dave Abrahams
373 Posted 09/01/2023 at 09:12:47
Tony (370) You were at Everton at the time as a non registered player and I remember you telling me Nev was doing a few crazy things then like lashing his boots at windows in the gym at Bellefield, good job the windows were re - enforced, you said Spurs had come in for him wth a good offer but Colin Harvey wouldn’t entertain them so there might have been a few things going on in his head and Nev has always been a bit volatile upstairs.

Eric (372), Chris isn’t interested in the truth and he will continue to defend the indefensible.

Gerry Quinn
374 Posted 09/01/2023 at 12:29:23
Just confirmed. Roberto Martinez has been appointed Portugal head coach.
Chris Jenkins
375 Posted 09/01/2023 at 22:27:44
I appear to have stirred up a hornet's nest in relation to a section of my earlier comments @328 with regard to Bill Kenwright.

I can honestly say that this was not my intention; I merely wanted to put forward some positive points regarding Bill's involvement in the running of the club as a director and chairman.

I will certainly acknowledge the fact that the events of recent years have seen the club's fortunes go downhill dramatically. However, how much of this decline is attributable directly to Bill himself? How much is fault of his co-directors along with the majority shareholder is, I feel, very much a moot point. Surely collective responsibility must be taken into account here?

In answer to

Eric #333 & #372

(i) I will have to defer to you Eric on the value of Kenwright's shares in True Blue [Holdings] Ltd – I have no information on this point.

(ii) I am surprised that you are able to quantify the actual amount of the mortgage which Kenwright took out on his property as this information is not normally a matter of public record.

A check on the Land Registry Records will provide the identity of the mortgagee but not the amount of the loan provided by that lending institution to the mortgagor. Similarly, the value of the property against which the loan is secured is not normally a matter of public information.

Dave #373,

I must refute your assertion that I am not interested in the truth. If I have doubts about the veracity of a statement made by someone, I can assure you that I would never attempt to support or defend that person.

I simply believe in being even-handed when assessing the criticism being directed at someone, in this case, Bill Kenwright.

Nick #336,

It was not my intention to make a fatuous comment about Bill Kenwright as the club's situation is far too precarious for that.

I am surprised that you say that Peter Johnson left the club in a solid financial position. My understanding is that the club was forced to sell Duncan Ferguson, without Walter Smith's knowledge, to raise a purported £8 million to stave off a financial crisis.

Danny O'Neill #339,

I totally agree with you about the dearth of trophies over the last 30 years and that this is totally unacceptable. Additionally, I fully accept your comments that we have become conditioned to a lack of expectation by the Directors and senior management.

We are in a position though, even with the involvement of the majority shareholder and previously with the individual who it is claimed was acting in concert with him, we just cannot compete, notwithstanding the fact that player recruitment, in the main, has been pretty abysmal at unsustainable cost. We need the involvement of much wealthier individuals if we are to compete.

As I said, I hope very much that Frank can turn things around but, if he is dismissed, my suggestion of David Moyes as a possible replacement should have been qualified with by the words "on a relatively short term basis".

His record since leaving Goodison has been very patchy, I must admit, but he was able to get some decent players in for us at bargain basement prices which is, I'm afraid, where we are currently, pretty much the paupers.

Looking further ahead, as I said, I would favour Steven Schumacher who is doing an excellent job at Plymouth Argyle.

Kieran Kinsella
376 Posted 09/01/2023 at 22:58:24
Tony Abrahams,

Terry Curran whip-around was before my time so I have to ask was this what it seems? Someone passing a cap around the stadium and people just throwing in a fiver?

Eric Myles
377 Posted 10/01/2023 at 01:55:07
Chris #375,

1. It is easy to calculate: number of shares X cost of shares. It's well documented to use your terminology, and also well documented that Bill Kenwright got the money from Anita Gregg, his business partner's wife.

2. The information was posted some years ago by a bloke called Watched Toffee. House valuations are easy to find, check Zoopla for instance.

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