Sam Allardyce takes over at Leeds

I think we all know Sam will be setting up not to concede then maybe pinch one on the break. 4 points and their current goal difference could decisive.

Given the narrow points spread of the bottoms 5/6 teams, goal difference may yet decide the relegation contest.

Mike, I think that will suit us. We want our defence to be tested as little as possible (ref keane). And our attack to have as many chances as possible (ref DCL).

Allardyce will not be wearing a smug grin after Saturday's away game at Man City. More like a bulldog chewing a wasp.

Hasn't stopped Roy Hodgson making an immediate impact although he must know some of the Palace squad already.

The issue with Leeds is that they are built to contest games / play football. It's a massive culture shock to grind out results.

We'll see – but sadly I think their chances of staying up are slightly improved. They were going down under Gracia.

I think you're right. But we think we're better than an Allardyce type manager.

Can't stand the gum-chewing, gravy-swilling, arrogant bloke.

He has mainly made a living off getting employed with 10-15 games of the season left by clubs who are in trouble. He could boast about a good track record of keeping sides up but failed to do that at WBA. Just like Benitez, he is another that will only get jobs when everything looks lost.

And not forgetting Allardyce who always has an eye for making money gets £500,000 for about 3 weeks work and a further £2.5M if he keeps them up. So it's a win-win for Allardyce: if they go down, he will say it was a big ask to turn things round in such a short period and, if he succeeds, he pockets the £2.5M whichever way it goes – not bad for 3 weeks' work.

It could also be argued that the appointment of Allardyce was the most divisive, as it clearly set fans against the leadership of the club and showed that the owner didn't have a clue about what or who he wanted in place, exacerbated by the appointment of Benitez, in later years.

Neither of those two managers should have been anywhere near Goodison, and I wouldn't have advocated that either should have stayed a minute longer than they did.

Sam's survival strategies (from my way back machine)

Keep a clean sheet

Do not lose possession in your own half

Play the first pass forward

Win the knock-down

Make the most of set pieces

Exploit the opposition's weaknesses

Capitalise on opportunities in the final third

These are the keys to stay up.

I live in Lancashire, I know Blackburn and Bolton fans who would have him back in a heartbeat (even now). Top 10 finishes with both clubs and didn't relegate either, and (I think) gave Everton (Moyes) a thrashing at both clubs. Didn't he also get West Ham 8th (before the money came?)

Kevin @24

I bow to your superior memory, but I'd have thought that Ancelotti, gained more wins and points in percentage terms than Allardyce, but I haven't checked it out to know for sure. I'm surprised if Big Sam did perform better than Carlo in their time at Everton.

I didn't mind Allardyce at all, and I thought a section of the fanbase showed just how delusional they are. If we'd've been in the Bottom 3 with him in charge, he'd deserve the sack…. but we weren't and he didn't.

The only reason Lampard was appointed was us fans didn't want that Portuguese bloke.

He saddled us with £50M worth of Tosun and Walcott.

Getting rid of him wasn't the mistake, the recruitment that undermined Silva was the mistake.

In fact it was also idiotic recruitment that led to us thinking we needed Allardyce in the first place.

Years and years of idiotic recruitment!

Our survival depends solely on our own performances – we can at best expect to get 1 point from Brighton & Man City. And then go hammer and tongs at Wolves and Bournemouth who are hopefully on the beach by that time. Any slip-ups in these 2 games, and it is curtains for Everton in the Premier League next season.

P-24
W-9
D-7
L-8
Win % - 37.5

Interestingly, we're the only team where he's won more than he lost.

I thought sections of our fanbase were just completely disrespectful to Allardyce; and Leeds will be stronger now, for sure.

I'd rather watch alehouse football and be safe. I'm not sure how much more of this season I can take!

Say what you want about him but he tailored his tactics to his players abilities.

Trying to play Man City with knock-it-about football is asking to be beaten.

I remember when he managed Bolton, Wenger at Arsenal hated playing them.

Allardyce: 9 wins, 7 draws, 8 defeats – 1.41 points per game, win percentage 37.5.

Ancelotti: 25 wins, 14 draws, 19 defeats – 1.53 points per game, win percentage 43.1.

However:

Under Allardyce we finished 8th with 49 points.
Under Ancelotti we finished 10th with 59 points.

Take your pick.

Source; ToffeeWeb/club/managers (Although I think there is a mistake in Ancelotti's record for his first season. Doesn't 8 wins and 6 draws make 30 points?)

They'll get well beat against Man City, their defence is terrible. 3-0 minimum.

Then it's the crunch game, for which all the chips will be on the table , home against Newcastle. Lose that one as well and you will literally hear the air coming out of the balloon.

At best they'll be on 32 or 33 points going into the last game against Tottenham. It's possible we'll need Tottenham to get a draw at least. Ironically, Richarlison's efforts may help save us again!

Robert (30) – Ah. The old recruitment drum. You do realise that a club's poor recruitment doesn't always preclude a manager from finding an answer. Eddie Howe has managed – with four or five clever additions – to galvanise a group of players that were largely underachieving for several seasons. If we'd been linked with players like Almiron, Joelinton, Schär or Jacob Murphy 12 months ago we'd have been up in arms. Now, they are all making major contributions for a Top 4 club.

It's often small margins at the top, and we've got a bunch of players that have struggled to find a way to access their very best, under a stream of managers and tactics. Things like that aren't an easy read at the time of recruitment, but we've been on this roundabout several times before, so I'll step off now.

Didn't Sam pay way over the odds for Walcott and Tosun?

But, Man City will not thrash Leeds as we need them to. He will bounce them to a points tally that we might just struggle to match.

I don't care about Leeds. Who are they?

I care about Everton.

“We don't need to imagine, he did do better than Ancelotti.”

Well that can be filed under bollocks for a start.

Ancelotti's win ratio at Everton = 46%, Lardiola's = 37%.

He wasted £50 million on Walcott and Tosun, stank the place out with his neanderthal football and rightly got binned at the end of the season.

Where did Carlo finish again, remind me?

Statements of no confidence in the previous manager from the club's supporters advisory board.

Currently leaking more goals than an unlucky fucker who found a Michael Keane cloning facility.

There was a story the other day about their players completely blanking a group of fans and well-wishers who had gathered and waited to greet them at their team hotel.

Little kids in Leeds kits waving and wondering if they were no longer corporeal as their ‘idols' kept their heads down, refusing to respond, before being blocked off by security personnel.

Cue a club apology and a hollow ‘Thank you for your continued support' that could be read aloud in the voice of Robocop and not sound any less authentic or appreciative.

Say what you want about Allardyce, but he's hardly been a unifying figure, especially throughout the latter part of his career. There will be as many Leeds fans thinking this is a ludicrously futile and desperate last throw of the dice from a dickhead owner who can see the ground rapidly opening up beneath him, as there is those who think anything is worth a go, even the Fred Elliot in a wig who has been sat with his feet up for two years after losing his ‘never been relegated' lustre in his last job at West Brom.

Four games is a free hit for ‘big Sam', but his presence isn't likely to calm things down any during those fixtures. Especially as two of the games are against former clubs with fan base's that can't stand the man after discovering him to be more anti-football demon (Meffystiflethese) than saviour.

(Oh yeah, subscribe here The Blue By You to a free newsletter, articles, ‘could you not have kept it shorter' streams-of-consciousness about all things Everton. If that sounds like your sort of thing, obviously. Not forcing you. There's no ‘They Live' style subliminal messaging going on here. Sooner you do, sooner I can stop pimping myself and feeling like I might get a smack on the wrist for it.)

If only more of our recent managers had delivered a 37% win rate; better still, the 46% achieved by Ancelotti.

Hopefully he finishes up with just wages but no bonus.

As you say, those 4 or 5 clever additions have played a big part in Newcastle's resurgence under Howe. You might even describe that as overcoming bad recruitment through good recruitment.

Anyway, I'll stick to my guns that it's possible to recruit well strategically by shopping for particular demographics of players in particular markets. You're welcome to disagree.

I am not countering your argument that it's “possible to recruit well strategically by shopping for particular demographics of players in particular markets.” It is absolutely possible. But not every club can manage it.

It's a bit like fruit machines: they cannot all pay out all of the time for everyone. Some people have developed methods to improve their chances – namely when a machine is ready to pay out – but ultimately there is no foolproof hack.

I am also not contesting whether our recruitment has been well below par. It has. The numbers reflect it, performances reflect it, and our current predicament reflects it. But we get nothing from waving our fists in the air and cursing the misspent millions.

At some point we need to find those six or seven players who can be in the team for next season, and the four or five we might be able to identify who could be added in to create a more cohesive and coherent first XI. We can't keep looking back and complaining.

They are still above us and while some may slag off Allardyce he's still capable of setting up not to lose his other games. I still think Forest have a good run in and can see them getting out of this.

Psychologically being in the bottom 3 is a nightmare for this team.

I can just imagine you wandering round Goodison with that written on a sandwich board like Bruce Willis in Die Hard 3.

That might be all they need but I still fancy them to go down with Southampton and Leicester (who I'd prefer to remain up, actually, with Forest dropping).

In other words: “I'm not tarnished and available to any rotten club in January.”

"There's nobody ahead of me in football terms. Not Pep, not Klopp, not Arteta."

I'd love to stop looking back and complaining about our previous recruitment – and I could, if it wasn't for the fact that it is precisely that poor recruitment which has put us at risk of losing points because of being outside Premier League P&S rules, and the consequent inability to execute the type of recruitment to reverse our position that we need going forward.

Maybe we could ask the Premier League to stop looking back? That might save us...

Right now, I can only look forward. Monday and Brighton.

That is what matters.

“We need to all stop looking back and complaining? Really Andrew?”

Ummm… I was making that point about recruitment. There's plenty to complain about, much of it very relevant and current and I'd be likely to be one of the loudest voices on those fronts… but going on and on about how rubbish our recruitment has become an easy stick to beat the club with, and I personally don't think it's that constructive right now.

I just think it'd be helpful if the club and the matchday crowd were filled with the Danny O'Neills of this world as opposed to individuals who think we're doomed because of recruitment decisions primarily made 4 or 5 seasons ago. It is the now that matters, and the 4 games left to play.

I'm posing that question because there are some people who vilify Alex Iwobi and Michael Keane who both bear the brunt of criticism of some who at the best, have achieved Sunday League heights.

I'll show you something at the next get-together that only family members have seen.

I was angry at Iwobi at half time on Monday. Michael Keane worries mean continuously. It's just his concentration. He is a good footballer.

But to your point, football is a game of mistakes as much as it is one of moments of brilliance. As I used to say to the young players I coached, decision-making is probably one of the most important attributes a player can have. But I don't think that can be coached. It is instinctive.

Let's be honest about where we are. Iwobi is far from perfect. He makes mistakes because he is trying to make things happen. But he is trying to make things happen.

I played at a very good standard, John, made many a misplaced pass, but you were never getting a goal out of me!

See you at the next gathering and I look forward to what you will reveal!

Regarding Lardicio's two wonderful acquisitions (Tosun and Walcott), Alan Sugar makes an interesting point in his book:

"Managers cannot be trusted to do a good deal since they are just interested in quick fixes."

Quick fixes is exactly what Allardyce tried to do. Given his head as the new manager, he was allowed to pay way, way over the odds for a couple of players who weren't worth 20% of their total fees.

The mismanagement of Everton has been totally unprofessional and absolutely ridiculous. A club without reason, and at best, a plan that was all about making it up as they go along.

Do you think it's just the players? Now you can fuck off as well…

There's an old saw from the behavioural sciences from some thirty years ago called the "boiled frog syndrome." It's such a tired old cliche, it's hardly mentioned now. However, it does apply to many of us in terms of our experience with Everton.

Basically, if you drop a live frog in boiling water, it jumps out immediately. However, if you drop the frog into cold water, and then start heating the water gradually, the frog never jumps out: it simply sits there and little by little gets heated to death.

Progressively, as blow after blow has hit us, year upon year, we have sat there like the frog, not noticing how dangerous things have become for the club. This season, more and more of us have begun checking the temperature.

Experience has enabled me to appreciate the ups and downs of a football game, show me a goal and I'll tell you where it could have been prevented. The football fan will accept anything that opponents provide, but their own players are not allowed to make mistakes.

I always use the example of a 20-yard shot that leaves the opponents goalkeeper stranded, the general opinion of the home fan is "No goalie in the world could have saved that!" But if the same thing happens at the other end of the pitch, the "The keeper was too far off his line," or "The centre-half should have closed the scorer down." The same goal but viewed differently.

Poor William has made an absolute fortune but he's not going to be able to take it with him and his legacy now resembles the heated frog!

Unfortunately it may be the club and ourselves that have turned into the frog.

Four games left to jump out.

I agree with Dale because I also thought it was a great analogy, unfortunately mate, but Kenwright's bloated face does remind me of an odious toad. Hopefully we come through unscathed because at least that man has had some good times.

I can tell from your post, certain areas of the internet and discussion that you don't inhabit... for that frog thing is very much alive and well on a grand scale.

You can argue all you like about his effectiveness etc but the sheer arrogance of him was staggering. Who remembers how he would slyly goad the Everton fans in his pressers? I hope he fails spectacularly.

Robert @22, I concur, that money should have been spent backing Silva after that strong finish to the season. Big mistake off the back of many other big mistakes.

The Leeds board have made one big mistake getting rid of Bielsa. They would have been safe now if he was manager. The Leeds fans after the free flowing football are going to hate Big Sam.

I fear that Sam will galvanise that midfield and defence. With those two tricky wingers, they can play on the break. I hope the guy hasn't got enough time to improve them, but they had been my main hope of us sneaking out of the shit.

Four games to tighten a defence, whilst still getting the team to attack. I’d be surprised if this is attainable playing with attacking wingers?

We have to make sure we're not Crisp.

Early in the morning, five at the back, four across the middle and one up top, but more harry than attack.

The general idea is to slow the game down, play as boring as possible and even more boring if necessary . Attacks limited to high balls, set pieces. This all leads towards Derek @80's two banks of five. Just frustrate the hell out of everybody. Big Sam is there for the money: fuck the football and young players.

Big Sam at Everton played the players that Moshiri spent the money on and then backed the bright ideas of Tosun and Walcott from those responsible for Recruitment..

Big Sam is there solely to enrich himself. His contract, his system, and yes Sir, three bags full for the Owner every time will be the way he will play it. A short-term plan ending in animosity all round and a big pay-out to his Dubai Bank Account.

It will be down to the last game, but Nottingham Forest or Leicester could still slip up. Dyche will stick to the same formula, with Patterson and Seamus. Both Coady and Mina must not have the right attitude, so we are stuck with Keane and his wavering confidence.

I think Everton will survive, but the Summer is going to be a saga of unbelievable proportions with the Independent Commission formation that our Chief Executive Officer supported, Moshiri and his offshore attempt to package Everton as a gift, and a £750million Stadium rising.

What did you tell the lads you coached who made the same mistakes over and over again?

They were young lads so you might have given them a bit of leeway, but what do you say to a professional footballer who has gone through an apprenticeship and has been a professional for eight or nine years, maybe more, and is still making those mistakes repeatedly?

True story.

He tried to take the credit for the West Ham result when we won 4-0 when in reality it was Unsworth's final game. When we won games, it was because of him; when we lost, it had nothing to do with him. We were bottom of the table for shots on goal, bottom for possession, bottom for everything.

I can't stand the greedy money-grabbing crook. I was embarrassed when he and Benitez were our managers. As for his “I'm on a par with Klopp, Pep and Arteta“ … Jesus wept – he can't be serious – I'm sure Man City fans are clamouring for Allardyce to take over when Pep moves on.

A divisive character who left us with an injury-prone striker who cost us the best part of £30 million and contributed about a dozen goals in 4 years on £100 grand a week and an injury-prone Walcott who scored about the same amount while pocketing a large salary.

Steve @74, I agree with every word.

I don't get it really. Yes, he got caught with that bung business which meant him massaging a minor rule, but even though the FA had to sack him, it was not exactly a hanging offence for me.

He likes a £1 note but who doesn't? If you keep getting offered positions (including the England job) which pay millions, would you refuse?

In general, he's done okay werever he's managed and has had to do the best he could with players who were not the cream of the crop.

His appointment at Leeds is not good news for us in my opinion.

I agree, but the issue here is Sam was run out of town by a section of the social media fanbase. Our perilous descent since suggests they were wrong but such words must never be spoken.

Attacking him is just a scurrilous way of avoiding the reality of Allardyce being the only manager to deliver. The intolerance of these fans is a huge part of the present problems.

We do have to recognise that our fans are also partly to blame for this disaster or different fans for different problems?

Wouldn't t be nice to have a body of people that represents the majority of the fans and can speak for them at any level.

“The intolerance of these fans is a huge part of the present problems.”

I think you could also say that the tolerance of these fans towards The Chairman in charge is a bigger part of these present problems.

Allardyce was tied up with the Shepherd Agencies along with Dalgleish, players bought from the North East, from Newcastle, Middlesborough into Liverpool FC and then found their way to West Ham and guess who was the manager there, yes Big Sam. Money for old rope.

What exactly did he deliver, Barry? Marco Silva delivered an 8th-place finish but at least did it without also delivering statistically the worst attacking metrics in the Premier League.

Arguing that we should have kept Allardyce because the subsequent hires didn't work out (which is a very nuanced issue anyway given the financial grief we have gotten into in the Moshiri years) ignores how dreadful the football was under him.

We should never have hired Allardyce in the first place. You could argue he would have been a more justifiable appointment this season than back then.

Ancelotti finished 10 points ahead of Lardiola’s tally. That’s where he finished.

You been watching The Diplomat then, Tony??

UTFT

Haven't a clue what "The Diplomat" is.

I feel a bit like that History Professor who was once asked if he believed in God. "Sorry, not my period," he answered.

Since you ask, I first came across the Boiled Frog Syndrome when I was working in the States. It was cited in a book by Noel Tichy who was working at the time with Jack Welch in GE. The Syndrome used to be referenced quite a bit in the 90s when senior management within firms were trying to get staff to embrace change against a background of declining business performance.

Recently I've begun thinking that Everton would be an absolutely brilliant business school case study, a modern exemplar of what not to do. It could be called, "What would Everton do? A study in failure, 1990-2023"

How many points did we get in 1987?

Neither do I.… Where did we finish?

Despite Allardyce having far more experience, much more time to work with the players, and a transfer window to boost the squad, he merely achieved the same points per league match that Unsworth had as caretaker.

On top of the wonga he'll be scraping out of Leeds, it's perfect for him. If they don't stay up, it's not his fault, came in too late, previous managers blah blah, if they stay up he claims to be a footballing genius once more. May I remind everyone he was the genius that spent £27M on Cenk Tosun, with 11 goals in 5 years returned.

And as for being up there with Pep, Klopp & Arteta, talk about delusional. I bet they were having a right old chuckle about that one. If that's the case why wasn't he offered the Man Utd, Chelsa or Spurs job?

I can't stand the charlatan.

I could have kept us up and finished 8th that season. For him to come in, claim 3 points from the Main Stand before he actually took to the dugout, tells you a lot about the arrogance of the man.

The corrupt anti-football charlatan willing to take a bung and caught out has long been found out.

Okay, for the sake of balance, he done a very good job at Bolton. But we are not Bolton. So don't talk to us like we are Bolton supporters.

His trademark is saving clubs from the drop. To quote what some have done, a dinosaur of a breed of English managers who thrive on failure. At least that dinosaur Ancelotti is still competing for trophies at the highest level.

Allardyce. I am shaking my head.

Anyway, Allardyce in not our manager. I wish he never had been. I don't care what he does. I just care about Everton staying up.

Comedy gold, that one, Kevin. Your post should have come with a laughter track.

Lookman was very good, Sigurdsson scored a very good goal, and Everton suddenly had a lot more attacking threat, with only a mistake from Pickford allowing Van Dijk to snatch it right at the end.

I was obviously gutted losing at Anfield but at least I thought I'd seen some green shoots regarding the way we played. Fast forward to the next league game, Sigurdsson was back on the wing, Lookman wasn't even on the bench, and we introduced Cenk Tosun, who started his Everton career like he was going to continue his Everton career, and Spurs put five past us at Wembley.

Allardyce only delivered anti-football, well that's my opinion anyway, and think I am definitely someone who is prepared to give any Everton manager a chance until I see something that makes me think otherwise.

Stand and Deliver – haha, I can still remember that song from when I was a little kid!

But with this supposed war chest, no-one wanted him spending the money Silva did to turn out Wimbledon football. Had we known we had no money (within FFP), he would've been more palatable.

If you extrapolate on your point, then there would be no need for ToffeeWeb as no one here has played at the level of Iwobi. But also, your logic would suggest that Matt Le Tissier, Souness, and so on should be absolute geniuses of punditry.

We have theatre critics who aren't at the level of Richard Burton or Richard Harris but if they show up and watch them in action and they're half drunk fluffing their lines, nobody says "You can't critique them, theatre critic, as you're not Marlon Brando."

None of us are movie stars but, if we go and see Hulk Hogan in Mr Nanny, we can generally concur he is a crap actor and it is a crap film because we have a point of reference in the shape of good actors we have seen in good films.

Likewise, no one looks at Keane or Iwobi in isolation we have reference points of other players doing the same job but much more effectively.

Tthere is nothing wrong with criticism, it's the way that it's expressed. The point I was making was the manner in which the criticism is delivered. I still maintain that anyone who plays football 'at any level' is prone to make mistakes, and that's why, although I might be disappointed, I don't belittle any player.

I appreciate that we all want our team to be successful but some seem to be expecting perfection. I have been mocked on this site for saying that players are not machines that can be programmed, and I stick to my beliefs.

That League of Ireland First Division (second tier) title that he guided Limerick FC to in 1992 has really gone to his head!

Fair enough and to be clear I’m not knocking Tony or Danny. Tony came through the same Forest youth group as Gary Crosby and many others so he must have been pretty damn good. I always like his insights. And Danny also has good insights too.

Sorry, mistake there! Wrong list.

Mike Walker, Steve Wigley, Alan Pardew, Phil Brown, Craig Shakespeare, Sammy Lee, Steve McLaren, Ian Dowie, Sam Allardyce,

Coaches are contracted for just a few years. And their decision making is aimed at getting through the next few months. Given everyone knows that, the club is at fault for these signings.

I've no doubt he's got value as a coach. He's experienced, he knows the fundamentals, and he can organise a back room team. But this nonsense around him being innovative and capable of more than he's shown is ridiculous. Using basic stats isn't innovative - it's percentage football. It goes back to about the 50s and every single team in the league is using stats of some kind nowadays. They're just using them in a more nuanced way than Sam did.

There's a reason his win rate is around a third. He doesn't coach very good teams. And no team looking to win things would even consider him because winners don't play those crap tactics.

He would have slowly reduced the quality in our team. He would edged us down the league. And he would have walked afterwards, claiming he could have done more if only he had better resources.

The thing is, the bloke is arrogant enough to truly believe he can have an impact at Leeds. And, incredibly, that arrogance might just put some belief into them. They're going to relish being the pantomime villains. Backs to the wall and a bit of pace on the break. Offer nothing until you win a free kick anywhere on the pitch.

It might work. And he'll get his money anyway.