Premier League has no influence over timeline of commission's review of Everton case

17/05/2023 100comments  |  Jump to last

Updated The Premier League have reportedly told Everton's rival clubs in their recent battles against relegation that they are powerless to bring forward the verdict of the commission reviewing the charges that the club violated Profitability and Sustainability rules.

The League referred the Blues' case to an independent commission in March and, as such, have no say in how swiftly or otherwise the review process will be completed, one which could result in anything from a hefty fine to a points penalty.

The Daily Mail claim that Leeds United, Leicester City, Nottingham Forest, Southampton and Burnley believe they are entitled to compensation from Everton if the club are found guilty of breaching spending rules and are preparing to sue the club if they stay up this season but this has been played down by Martyn Ziegler of The Times

Matt Hughes of the Mail, who has been behind a number of recent articles in a similar vein, claimed that this new group of five clubs — Burnley are apparently still aggrieved they were relegated last season — have lodged legal papers with the Premier League which make them a party to a dispute seeking £100m per club in damages, the estimated loss of income for one season after the deduction of parachute payments in the event of demotion from the top flight.

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Ziegler reports that the named clubs have distanced themselves from these claims but they are said to have requested that the Premier League ensure the work of the independent commission be completed before the end of the season so any sanctions could be applied to the ongoing relegation battle, particularly in the case of a points deduction.

According to The Telegraph, however, the clubs concerned have been told that the timeline for ongoing deliberations is set by the commission and that the Premier League cannot interfere with the process once it has made its charges under rules agreed by the member clubs.

It is not clear if the makeup of the independent panel has even been agreed which would make it unlikely that any decision will be reached before next season, and there have been suggestions it could take as long as 18 months. 

These latest complaints against Everton come a year after Burnley and Leeds first wrote to the Premier League demanding that an independent commission be formed to look into the club's finances amid their claims of serious breaches of Profitability and Sustainability rules.

That request was refused, with the League informing those clubs that they were satisfied that Everton had operated within the rules, and the threats of legal action pursuing damages never materialised as Leeds avoided relegation themselves and Burnley later faced their own financial scrutiny.



Reader Comments (100)

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James Hughes
1 Posted 17/05/2023 at 08:11:20
Well, talk about the gift that keeps giving...
Mike Hayes
2 Posted 17/05/2023 at 08:16:05

Apparently it’s a regurgitated “story” from last time which is typical of the Nazi paper the Daily Mail – Twitter again. 🤷

Danny O’Neill
3 Posted 17/05/2023 at 08:41:47
Honestly. Sue because a team finishes on more points.

Most clubs in the modern game spend more than they earn.

Grow up.

I don't read the papers these days.

The Sun is a rag. The Mirror a protest paper that is very angry. The Express, my Labour-supporting grandfather's paper of choice, has suddenly turned into a Brexit mouthpiece. The Daily Mail; it's like being lectured by your Aunty. The Guardian doesn't like the Tories.

Just get the lawyers out. Sued for finishing higher than those below us?

Are Arsenal going to sue Manchester City?


Finn Taylor
4 Posted 17/05/2023 at 08:49:29
The Times has a more balanced take on this, thankfully. It looks like action by the clubs has not moved forward.

Relegation rivals fail to fast-track Everton’s FFP verdict

Michael Kenrick
5 Posted 17/05/2023 at 08:49:52

That was the only positive I took from this – that the clubs had supposedly failed in their bid to accelerate the verdict and imposition of any punishments.

But the Premier League should have the power to stop their member clubs from sueing each other.

What is the point of having a comprehensive handbook of rules and regulations, with each club as a stakeholder in the whole operation, and regular (monthly?) meetings of those stakeholders who can each have their say?

The authority of the Premier League should be paramount, but they have created a monster by not severely disciplining clubs that sue each other. Instead, they will just hold up their hands and claim to have done right while creating a monster where clubs with a perceived grievance created by their rules can potentially tear each other apart.

Jimmy I'Anson
6 Posted 17/05/2023 at 09:26:52
Surely they should be suing all of the clubs that broke FFP rules. Presuming we're guilty, league position is irrelevant. Every club above them that broke the rules gained an unfair advantage, not just Everton.

If this was allowed to happen, Chelsea, Man City and soon Newcastle can all expect to be sued by other clubs. City costing clubs the league title, Newcastle costing clubs a Champions League place, Chelsea just being Chelsea and spending £750M in one season.

The minute one club successfully sues another, the Premier League is finished.

Jimmy I'Anson
7 Posted 17/05/2023 at 09:36:52
I can't help but think this is these clubs trying to destabilise the team before the last two games. Can we sue these clubs for gaining an unfair advantage through media reporting? Maybe if they successfully sue us, we can sue the Premier League for allowing member clubs to act like this.

Ironically, this could just help our case with the investigation by the 'independent commission'. The can of worms will only be opened if we are found guilty, and that can of worms will suit no club whatsoever.

Brian Harrison
8 Posted 17/05/2023 at 09:39:25
Like most things written in The Mail, it can be filed under complete fabrication, I wouldn't even believe the date on their paper.

This paper is and has been owned by the Rothermere family, the present incumbent lives in Monaco and classes himself as French and he pays no tax in Britain. Yet proceeds to tell British taxpayers how the country should be run.

What I find curious is, if these clubs want to sue Everton because they have transgressed the rules, why will they only go through with the action if Everton avoid relegation?

The Premier League will, when the independent commission completes its findings, issue any penalties – whether that be a fine or a points deduction – but, whatever the findings, it will only come into effect next season.

I wonder why these clubs haven't adopted the same stance with Man City after the Premier League charged them with a similar offence?

Jimmy I'Anson
9 Posted 17/05/2023 at 09:42:27
Exactly Brian, league position is irrelevant.
Michael Kenrick
10 Posted 17/05/2023 at 09:47:05

Further down in The Times article, there's a paragraph that would tend to support your claim of fabrication:

The clubs who asked for the fast-tracked hearing have distanced themselves from reports that they have lodged legal papers with the league this season.

And their next paragraph attempts to shed some light on the probable timeline:

The timescale for Everton's case to be heard remains unclear but FFP cases in the Sky Bet Championship have taken between 18 months and 2 years to reach a conclusion.

That seems an inordinately long time to review the accounts, request and analyse backup materials, debate the merits, and then reach a conclusion. But I suppose it depends how deep they are going to go.

Jerome Shields
11 Posted 17/05/2023 at 09:53:42
The Mail stirring things as usual. They were wrong about the sooner rather than later Independent Commission findings and are now trying to bolster it up by claiming that, because it was not held sooner, that there is discontent as a result.

The truth is that the Independent Commission was always going to be held after the end of the season and any finding would relate to the following season.

If the Commission had been held before the end of the season, the Premier League would become a party in an existing relegation battle, something it would be unethical for them to get involved in.

Advice to Mail: Get a life.

James Marshall
12 Posted 17/05/2023 at 09:55:37
Even if we did fuck up our spending, look what good it's done us! It's not like it's helped us, we're as shit as the Bottom 3. Laughable.

I look forward to Arsenal suing Man City for the same reason. Yeah, good luck with that!

Fuck the Daily Fail, and the Sun all anyone who reads them needs their head read.

Kevin Molloy
13 Posted 17/05/2023 at 10:01:19
This is brilliant news. That was a massive cloud hanging over us, that they would apply a 3-point deduction this season. Who cares if they stick that on us next season, we'll have all year to make it up – this time with a manager who knows what they are doing.

This suing lark is just a symbol of their frustration, they won't actually do it cos of the appalling precedent it would set. What, fall outside of profit and loss and every other club gets to sue you if they then go down? Never gonna happen.

Michael Kenrick
14 Posted 17/05/2023 at 10:08:05
Jimmy and Kevin,

"The minute one club successfully sues another, the Premier League is finished." "Never gonna happen."

It would be reassuring if that were true, but unfortunately the precedent is on the books with West Ham Utd and Sheffield Utd going at it some years ago over Carlos Tevez:

West Ham have been fined £30 million after a Football Association Arbitration panel ruled in favour of Sheffield United.

I guess you could say that it never reached the courts and was instead decided through arbitration proceedings under the umbrella of the Football Association, which covers both the Premier League and the Football League?

On that note, I see that the Sky Sports timeline of events includes this:

13 July 2007: Sheffield United explore the possibility of an appeal to the High Court but the Blades' attempt to gain leave is refused.

It then took a year for the independent arbitration hearing to rule… followed by another 6 months before West Ham and Sheffield Utd reached an out-of-court settlement to end their dispute over the Tevez transfer.

Brian Harrison
15 Posted 17/05/2023 at 10:38:33

I think that this was about 3rd party ownership of a player's registration that is not allowed here. You are right that Sheffield United did take action against West Ham, who signed both Tevez and Mascherano who were both on 3rd part ownership contracts. This 3rd party system is still used a lot, mainly in South America.

Jimmy I'Anson
16 Posted 17/05/2023 at 11:22:02
If three clubs successfully sued Everton for £300M, then Everton would be bankrupt and they wouldn't get a penny anyway. All it would achieve is the destruction of one of the founder members of the Premier League.

Even if they do go down this route unsuccessfully, I wouldn't be surprised when any new reformatted Euro Super League that includes us comes along, then we'll be off.

Joe McMahon
17 Posted 17/05/2023 at 11:22:59
The relegation for Burnley was the best thing that happened to them, the feel-good factor in the area is now incredible, so I don't know why they're still whinging.

Let's face it, Everton FC are up the creek whatever league they are in.

Again special mention to the Greatest Evertonian in the world. I never saw him as some kind of saviour, and never warmed to him or trusted anything that came out of his fat gob.

If we had to have an "Old School Luvy" I'd prefer someone like Christopher Biggins, at least he's a decent person.

Stephen Davies
18 Posted 17/05/2023 at 11:24:40
Kevin #13.

If there is to be a points deduction, I doubt very much it will be as little as 3.

James Hughes
19 Posted 17/05/2023 at 11:25:42
James M, you could be right I probably do need my head read but it wouldn't be because I glance at the Mail sports news. :p
Paul Hewitt
20 Posted 17/05/2023 at 11:30:25
Jimmy @16.

I very much doubt we would be invited into a European Super League.

Bill Fairfield
21 Posted 17/05/2023 at 11:32:51
Legal action?Could drag on for some considerable time then.
James Marshall
22 Posted 17/05/2023 at 11:33:32
We're far more likely to be invited into a European Sunday League.
Christine Foster
23 Posted 17/05/2023 at 11:38:16
It is the incompetance of financial management, especially over Moshiri's tenure, but specifically under the board of directors led by the chairman and CEO who are directly responsible for the decisions that continue the possible ramifications to our very survival, not just in the Premier League but existence. Ridiculous player purchase and subsequent contracts, poor recruitment of managers, and here we are again, subject to condemnation and ridicule off the pitch as well as on it.

Will it ever see the light of day? Probably not, but it's mudslinging... At this rate, even if we stay up, next season will probably see a points deficit to start with.

I hope I never see a member of that board at Goodison again. They should be frog-marched out of the club.

Jimmy I'Anson
24 Posted 17/05/2023 at 12:01:01
Paul (20), James (22),

I know, I'm just angry at these shitey little shit house clubs who would gladly see us gone forever.

Ernie Baywood
25 Posted 17/05/2023 at 12:38:35
Not sure how multiple clubs could sue... Only one can go down in our place.

In any case, it won't happen. We can break rules, and it's up to the authorities to punish us.

Or we can all just start suing each other. Two court cases against each team each year. One home, one away. Might be better viewing than some of the football we've watched this season.

Frank Kearns
26 Posted 17/05/2023 at 13:04:26
So, Everton's alleged financial mis-management resulted in these teams not getting enough points to avoid relegation.

How come we're liable for their crap performances?

Michael Lynch
27 Posted 17/05/2023 at 13:09:08
If we go down, we're going to be the ones to sue West Ham when Moyes plays the kids and misfits against Leeds and Leicester to save his best players for the European games.

Should one or both of those games give our rivals 3 points, there should be an investigation by the Premier League.

Christine Foster
28 Posted 17/05/2023 at 13:10:01
The simplest and most effective solution would be if the independent commission found no case to answer, voiding any claims. Everton could then also sue the league for failing to prevent Everton from further or excessive expenditure in line with the governing rules.

Or if you really wanted a shot show, they could sue all the other clubs like Man City, Chelsea etc for beating them after excessive spending. Can of worms... the Premier League have to kill this before it kills them.

James Newcombe
29 Posted 17/05/2023 at 13:36:29
We've spent a net negative on player signings the last two seasons. Playing without a proper striker for most of that time. Where is this advantage we supposedly have?

And how can Forest come up and spend £200m? Money has ruined this sport, just as it was always going to.

Paul Hewitt
30 Posted 17/05/2023 at 13:40:12
I suppose when you spend 3 times the amount you're allowed too, you open yourself to things like this.
Kieran Kinsella
32 Posted 17/05/2023 at 13:45:52
We've paid relegated clubs about £200 million and taken crappy players and managers off their hands. Talk about ungrateful.
Peter Warren
33 Posted 17/05/2023 at 13:49:52
Breaking rules. If somebody going to get sued for diving / claiming a corner which wasn't theirs or putting a player out injured in another team.

The Premier League can do what they like. If found guilty, I can't see how another club can sue another but they can make their case to the Premier League – an independent enquiry is what should happen.

Michael Kenrick
34 Posted 17/05/2023 at 13:56:14
James and Paul,

It is losses not spending that is restricted by the Profitability and Sustainability Rules (wrongly called Finacial Fair Play, which are Uefa rules that apply to teams in European competitions).

The Mail has come out with a second story, slightly different than the first, saying the Premier League now risk action from their own clubs for failing to enforce spending rules.

This one seems more of a rehash with a lot about Everton's spending and losses.

Tony Abrahams
35 Posted 17/05/2023 at 13:56:54
Joe@17, sometimes I feel that relegation is the best way to reset a football club, even if the thought terrifies most Evertonians right now.

I've listened to the arguments against and have been swayed because of the financial implications but the Bill Kenwright tenure has always given me a feeling that it will eventually end in tears. Even if we get safe, the biggest thoughts in my head are, "If not now, then when?" (Regarding relegation.)

Tony Abrahams
36 Posted 17/05/2023 at 14:03:36
A lot of journalism centered around Everton for the last few months has been about relegation and more because of the financial implications rather than how poor we have been out on the pitch.

There's been a witch-hunt going on for quite a while now but hopefully soon Moshiri will sell and Everton will be free to start with a new beginning.

I just hope when Everton are eventually sold it's not on St Swithin's Day because, if we are, then Kenwright's tears are going to ruin the summer.

Dale Self
37 Posted 17/05/2023 at 14:17:30
Shorter LC Leeds Soton Forest: We got nothing the PL will enforce so we are taking it to the court of public opinion where our indignant rage will be ignored.
Chris James
38 Posted 17/05/2023 at 14:29:08
Presumably everyone who didn't win the Premier League will also be taking action against Man City if they are found guilty? Sigh.
Dale Self
39 Posted 17/05/2023 at 14:34:15
Another bright note, isn’t it charming to see professional sport ostensibly maintaining standards when society has greenlighted playing the grey area in all sectors of life?
Brent Stephens
40 Posted 17/05/2023 at 14:36:44
Dale, and I'm proud of how clean football, of all sports, is these days. Not a blemish in sight. A gentleman's sport...
Pete Clarke
41 Posted 17/05/2023 at 14:51:27
We should sue Liverpool FC for anything and everything that's possible to sue them for.

We as supporters should sue Kenwright for causing us so much distress and anxiety for near on 20 years.

We should also sue lots of our players and ex-players for falsifying documents that led our club to sign them in the belief that they were true football players. We should sue the people who signed them too.

We should sue Everton for selling us tickets for seats that if we sat still would mean we had only 10 per cent view of the pitch (maybe they were being kind).

We should sue Moshiri for bringing Benitez to this club. Oh, and Allardyce.

Should we sue Little Miss Dynamite for giving our supporters a bad name over Stranglegate? (Or was that Kenwright again just spouting rubbish?)

This libel thing is big business and, once one case goes ahead, the very clever lawyers will have their dirty hands all over this looking for more.

What a load of crap the newspapers come out with and yet, in the real world, Chelsea have something like 30 or more players out on loan who were signed on very long-term contracts which dodged the rules. Hundreds of millions spent on signing players with potential and yet they just get farmed out at lower league clubs for years with half of the wages being covered.

Man City have spent billions and their wage bill must be off the scale. Who's looking into that?

There's definitely a lot of anti-Everton feeling out there right now so all the more important that we stay up and rebuild this club from the ashes of Bill Kenwright's destructive ring of fire.

Jim Lloyd
42 Posted 17/05/2023 at 14:54:16
It seems to me that this story is by a bloke who I think sometimes writes in the Echo and it just looks like a rehash of an earlier article, with a bit of added extra.

We haven't got a pot to piss in, likely as not that's going to remain the case. It may be true that clubs are queuing up to sue us but, if we had to sell Richarlison and Gordon, I doubt that the club have any money to pay remotely like the sums mentioned.

I think the clubs are trying to badger the Premier League to hurry the Independent Commission, which I doubt they can. These clubs are trying to get a result where Everton are deducted points this season. If it's an independent Commission, then surely they will decide the date of any hearing and investigation

It would also seem logical to me that any club wanting to sue Everton would have to wait until Everton are found to have broken any rules!

We haven't been found to have broken the rules yet, so on what grounds would they sue?

Dale Self
43 Posted 17/05/2023 at 15:11:09
I can see that glow from here, Brent.

Looking for the words… oh yeah:

Well we all shine on,
Like the moon and the stars and the Sun.

You know that one? ;)

Michael Kenrick
44 Posted 17/05/2023 at 15:12:13
And just to follow up on the claim of fabrication, it's amzaing how seemingly every other major newspaper in this country has now carried a version of this story, many happily linking back to the Daily Mail.

It's a good job we have so many posters on the ball who can spot fake news and alert us to it. It's enough to make you think they are all in cahoots trying to bamboozle us!

Brent Stephens
45 Posted 17/05/2023 at 15:30:42
Dale, how could a Liverpool lad know that song??
Will Mabon
46 Posted 17/05/2023 at 15:59:51
This is flagrant pot-stirring; no new genuine information or details whatsoever hence no justification for this "article".

I wouldn't call it amazing, Michael (I know it was sarcasm). It's actually very fucking out of order that they'd all band together this way, especially as there is not an ounce of revelation in that rehash that other publications could claim is worth carrying. We really are the pariah club.

As it happens, it won't make a carrot of difference on the pitch anyway. So screw them.

Dale Self
47 Posted 17/05/2023 at 16:09:11
Brent, I am so jealous of you all given I did 28 hard years in Oklahoma before I got out.
Did my best to catchup since though.
Tom Bowers
48 Posted 17/05/2023 at 16:13:11
If they penalize us 3 points next season I am sure we could make it up by Christmas. What a fucking palaver!
Kieran Kinsella
49 Posted 17/05/2023 at 16:34:05

Fake news is only going to get worse. I was invited to test a new AI this week. I asked it to gather info on a relatively obscure topic as part of the test. It produced an article dated 2 March 2022, with a byline from a New York Times journalist and said "I found this article from the NYT."

It was very detailed but I tried to find the real article online and couldn't. So I queried the AI and its response "I am sorry I am in Beta mode so don't know everything but thought if I fabricated an article of the type you are seeking that you would be pleased."

Dale Self
50 Posted 17/05/2023 at 16:38:29
Shorter 21st Century:
It’s not the actual events that will get you, it’s the psyops.
Jimmy I'Anson
51 Posted 17/05/2023 at 16:42:19
I wouldn't bother with a media room at the new ground.
Brent Stephens
52 Posted 17/05/2023 at 17:13:35
Ivan Toney banned for 8 months - breach of betting rules.
Brent Stephens
53 Posted 17/05/2023 at 17:14:28
Watch Everton now put in a bid for Ivan Toney.
Andy Crooks
54 Posted 17/05/2023 at 17:34:59
Kieran @49. That post is quite scary.
Frank Crewe
55 Posted 17/05/2023 at 17:40:13
No club would sue Everton for P&S breaches because, if they wanted to see our books, we would have the right to see theirs, and I have no doubt every club in the Premier League and to an extent the Championship have breached the financial rules one way or another.

Where did Forest get £120 million to buy all those players? How did Chelsea find a way to spend £600 million, which is more than we have spent in 7 years, in only two windows? Not to mention the humungous wage bills virtually every Premier League club has.

Phoney sponsorship deals. Cash from other nations' taxpayers. Dubious accounting isn't just confined to Everton. I don't think the Premier League want to open that particular can of worms.

If the worst comes to the worst, I think we're looking at a fine and maybe a points deduction at the start of next season, whether we're still in the Premier League or not.

Clive Rogers
56 Posted 17/05/2023 at 17:41:28
Sounds like the AI was coached by Kenwright to me.
Raymond Fox
57 Posted 17/05/2023 at 18:15:41
We are now 7/2 to go down with Hills if anyone is convinced we are doomed.
Rob Halligan
58 Posted 17/05/2023 at 18:22:45
So Toney is banned for 8 months, I assume starting from now, so in effect 3 months of it is irrelevant, due to the close season, and his ban will be 5 months in reality.

Still a long time though. He should be back around the turn of the year.

Jerome Shields
59 Posted 17/05/2023 at 18:23:50
'I feel honoured to have been selected to represent Everton and the wider football family and support Tracey Crouch MP and other colleagues as we undertake what is a hugely significant and very important review of our game.

"I will be proud to share the principles, practices and processes we have developed at our Club, and will take the responsibility of playing a part in driving positive change across the game – and representing you - very seriously."'

Denise Barrett-Baxendale, CEO, Everton FC, 21 May 2021

Come on, Denise, you were on the panel that recommended an Independent Regulator. Could we have an update on the Independent Commission on Everton FC as promised, so we can establish the facts, rather than depend on the stories of the Fleet Street rascals.

But thank you for your help. 'Principle, Practised and Processes' would be a good starting point.

Colin Glassar
60 Posted 17/05/2023 at 18:50:24
Any chance of Chairman Bill, the board, and Moshiri ending up in the nick for this?
Tony Everan
61 Posted 17/05/2023 at 19:15:44
The Mail are probably being paid to regurgitate this story, they are trying to create a desired narrative and put pressure on, and indirectly influence the independent commission by doing it. This practice itself needs investigating in the interests of having a fair hearing.

Rob, Joey Barton got 18 months and it effectively ended his career, so in that respect Toney has got away lightly as you say considering the season is conveniently ending next week. He's back on 17 January 2024.

Jim Lloyd
62 Posted 17/05/2023 at 19:31:35
I doubt it, Tony. They're just like sharks circling. They won't let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Tony Everan
63 Posted 17/05/2023 at 19:38:11
And can we now sue Liverpool FC for £1 billion for getting us banned from Europe when the team and club was at its glorious best? Growing as a brand, about to conquer Europe probably for years leading up to the Premier League where we would have been a growing force attracting investment.

Other clubs may want to join in too. Why not if it's a free-for-all? No, I take it back, make it £2 billion.

Colin Glassar
64 Posted 17/05/2023 at 19:40:03
Great point, Tony.
Rob Halligan
65 Posted 17/05/2023 at 19:53:07
Maybe Nottingham Forest will sue the Premier League for not banning Toney earlier, seeing as Toney had already admitted to some of the charges a few weeks back, in which case, Toney should have been banned then.

I'm only saying Nottm Forest as it's one that sticks out when they were leading Brentford 1-0 with only a few minutes to go, when Toney smashed in a free kick and Brentford ultimately went on to win the game. Had Forest won that game, they would probably be well safe now. Good for us though, that Toney wasn't banned back then.

Barry Hesketh
66 Posted 17/05/2023 at 19:53:21
If a club has a gripe with another member club, surely it is the governing bodies that it should go after? Having said that, all member clubs agreed to the various rules and regulations and therefore they should just await the outcome of the investigations and stop this ridiculous need to seek compensation for something that they feel unfairly impacts them.

I feel that the whole regulation of restricting spending is beyond the scope of sporting bodies. In any market place, only the strong survive and any club that can't manage its own finances will suffer the consequences accordingly.

Then again, should any club be able to rack up debts of up to a billion pounds in order to remain competitive?

I also agree with others that one 'fake' story carries enough weight to make all the major papers and outlets. Fact-checking it seems has been consigned to the dustbin, which is where most of these imaginary stories belong.

Mike Hayes
67 Posted 17/05/2023 at 19:58:52

If you want an answer, get her in a headlock until she spills the beans. 🤷

Kevin Molloy
68 Posted 17/05/2023 at 20:10:09
One thing is obvious from these recent press articles: there is zero sympathy for Everton's plight in the wider football world, just disappointment that the much promised relegation may have been put off for another year.
Tony Abrahams
69 Posted 17/05/2023 at 20:11:38
By the end of this decade (I'm always conservative) I believe mentioning Heysel will be termed a hate crime.

Liverpool FC and Liverpudlians in general have been trying to brush it under the carpet since the day it happened, and now with this AI, the truth will be slowly and further eradicated, imo.

Danny O’Neill
70 Posted 17/05/2023 at 20:45:36
They ignore it Tony. They deny it.

They shamed English football and we suffered the most. We talk about our current irreparable relationship with our board. They made the relationship with our cousins irreparable compared to the one I grew up with. I despise them as a collective.

They call us bitter.

Fuck off.

Sorry for the language.

We have stood by them in tragedy, more than any other club and as supporters. And rightfully so.

But the ungrateful bastards still laugh at us. I can take banter, but don't don't take the piss.

Sorry for the language again.

History airbrushed. We can't talk about it or we are accused of victimising them.

Juventus supporters turning their back on them for their token gesture.

You will have to excuse my outburst. I'm getting ready for Saturday and all I care about is my Everton.

If we go down, those twats will be carrying blue and white coffins around the streets gloating.

Sorry for the language again. I'm getting very passionate.

Tony Abrahams
71 Posted 17/05/2023 at 20:53:33
Hopefully the song for next week Danny, will be Champions league you’re having a laugh, but thanks for winning at Leicester’s gaff!🤞

Bobby Mallon
72 Posted 17/05/2023 at 20:57:22
Why will there be a points deduction? If that happens to us then it happens to city. Or does a points deduction only apply to teams near the bottom the table. Surely we should be waiting to see what happens to city.
Jerome Shields
73 Posted 17/05/2023 at 20:58:10

Notice that she is never seen at Goodison and is exceptionally quiet.You would have to send out
a search party to find her She is great at blowing her own trumpet, but when it coming to accountability for her actions.Not a word.

Notice that Luton are challenging to get in the Premiership from Non league Status in 6 years.They also have a Community organisation to be proud of.

Craig Walker
74 Posted 17/05/2023 at 21:29:53
Why doesn’t somebody investigate our neighbour’s form? They go for 10 games or so where they have no energy, look lost at sea and drop points. Then, boom. They’re winning 7 on the spin and bounding with energy in the 95th minute. Again.

Does nobody find that suspicious given the rumours of asthmatics?

John Raftery
75 Posted 17/05/2023 at 21:36:04
If the Premier League take on board every potential complaint from clubs with a clear vested interest in undermining rival clubs the Independent Commission will become a permanent fixture: and thus unmanageable.

From the outset it seemed obvious the question of our financial mismanagement would not be resolved in a matter of weeks. Very likely it will take many months. A points deduction for a club which has not (yet) entered administration will set a huge precedent and may be seen as disproportionate compared with sanctions applied in other leagues.

It seems to me more likely we will incur a transfer ban which will actually help the club move more quickly towards financial stability.

Tony Abrahams
76 Posted 17/05/2023 at 21:44:14
And looking at the state of our squad, do you think there’s a very good chance that relegation might follow if this happens John?
Ernie Baywood
77 Posted 17/05/2023 at 22:58:49
Presumably everyone impacted by Toney's goals can sue too. He's scored 20 - take them away and they would have a similar goals scored to us.

Now I know that's nonsense maths as someone else would have played in his place.

But that's the argument being mounted against us. Take away our spending and we'd be weaker. They obviously haven't watched the kind of players we spent money on.

John Raftery
78 Posted 17/05/2023 at 23:13:27
Hi Tony (76) Good question. Back in January I would have said most certainly it would. Having now seen what Sean Dyche has achieved in a high pressure situation with a group previously low on confidence and with nil momentum I think over a full season this manager would guide us into mid-table.

It might be wishful thinking on my part but young players already on our books like Patterson, Mykolenko, Branthwaite, Garner, McNeil, Simms and Cannon can be expected to improve with experience and a core of mature players alongside them.

A key action will be to use this summer window to prepare for a possible ban by selling Pickford and one or two others, recruiting decent replacements at lower cost and bringing in a couple of hard knock forwards with the hunger, ambition and ability to play and score in a Dyche team. That’s the sort of approach which has worked well for clubs like Brentford and Brighton. There’s no reason why it should not work for us if the right person is making the decisions. That’s a big ‘if’, I know!

David Vaughan
79 Posted 17/05/2023 at 23:17:37
Just a quick dystopian thought. The PL/Indie Commission may not pursue our case before the end of the season but if any points deduction is subsequently imposed, say in the summer, can that be applied retrospectively ie to the season just ended? Rather than starting the new season on a minus?
Nick Page
80 Posted 17/05/2023 at 23:18:10
I don’t know what everyone’s complaining about. We’ve had good times.
Christine Foster
81 Posted 17/05/2023 at 23:31:56
Blood in the water.
It's like the start of a feeding frenzy, the sharks are circling while the media cuts and stabs at the flailing body of Everton FC. There is a determination to make an example of us, again. There is an obscene holier than thou beat being played out by the Premier League clubs determined to justify or distract from their own misdeeds by screaming their injustice at this club. Sadly, in a perverse way they are right too, but justice is never even handed or fair, examples must be made to show teeth, where even false teeth can bite..
Of course we can point to the fact that other clubs have used dodgy accounting practices or plain ignored the regulations, we are referred to an independent commission because of what exactly? The only other club being City, with hundreds of alleged deliberate transgressions over the years, but of course, they are winners, lauded by the league and all now in the football world as the best.. which they may well be..but how was it achieved? Manipulation of finances now embarrassing situation for the EPL.. but along come know how this is going to pan out.
Ok, so what can we do about it? Frankly, it might have been better if Moshiri was sanctioned and the club seized and sold like Chelsea, at least the decks would have been cleared, but no, instead we have no mark teams threatening us to cover their own incompetence on the pitch. The need to have someone else to blame for their own inadequacies. A distraction to shelter from the unpleasant scrutinization of their own supporters or the EPL itself.
Pour blood in the waters, blame, incite, accuse..beat the drums..raise the flag of indignation, Garner the forces of the media..we all know the score, we all know who to blame, we all know who will suffer most.
If this sport was clean, the claims could be open to scrutinization, but it's anything but, the world's "greatest club team" is under investigation for deliberately manipulating reporting, clubs are using new accountancy ploys to get around rules. Spending money far in excess of what they earn in a season.. but no, moral indignation is the shield of those who could not compete on the field or off it, only wishing they had thought of those accountancy ideas first..
The blood is in the water, the lifeboat with the owner and chairman is being lowered.. we are but the 3rd class passengers on the good ship Everton, a feeding frenzy awaits. Bastards.
Tony Everan
82 Posted 18/05/2023 at 12:10:00

I know P&S rules are over a three year period, but in the current relegation battles we are not very financially boosted and at first glance proves that we have been towing the line, regarding compliance with Premier League guidance.

These stats I’ve just seen ;

Net spend on transfers over the past 2 seasons combined, since July 2021:
Everton - Minus £31.9m
Leeds - Plus £90.9m
Leicester - Plus £30.2m
Forest - Plus £196.37m
Southampton - Plus £121.25m

David Currie
83 Posted 18/05/2023 at 19:16:51

Genuine question regarding Heysel: Why did that club only ever get 1 year more ban than all the rest?

They should have got a 10-year ban and none of the other English clubs should have got any ban from playing in Europe.

Larry O'Hara
84 Posted 18/05/2023 at 19:37:09
David (83) — Do you not know the Devil looks after his own?
Chris Leyland
85 Posted 18/05/2023 at 19:45:20
David, they should have got a year for each person that sadly died that day. A 39-year ban would have been justifiable and justice.

Instead, you aren't allowed to mention it as they get offended. Then, you aren't allowed to mention that they are offended by it as they get offended by that too.

The sickening sight of them holding their parade last season on the very anniversary of Heysel without an ounce of shame or contrition was the last straw for me. They are a truly shameless, classless club.

Despite being the media darlings and having infested every ounce of every form of media, they are largely despised by most other fans throughout the country.

David Currie
86 Posted 19/05/2023 at 05:38:43
Larry 84 Indeed, Chris 85, Yes 39 years would have been justice.

I was not surprised about the parade on the anniversary of Heysel.

Tony Abrahams
87 Posted 19/05/2023 at 07:45:38
Good answer, John. I think if Everton have got a year to prepare for a transfer ban, then getting rid of Pickford and Onana might be the best way to wheel and deal and bolster our squad because we just simply can't go on having just one genuine centre-forward.

I honestly think Benitez would still be our manager if Calvert-Lewin and Mina,had stayed fit. So, if we are preparing for a transfer ban, then we need to find a way to bolster our squad.

The way the club has been run for years has been nothing short of desperate and this seems to have destroyed nearly every single foundation required to run a successful football club.

We need a massive clear-out at the top and we need a massive revamp at the bottom. It will be interesting to talk when I eventually get to meet Sean Dyche and Steve Stone. We only met because Forest were ahead of the game regarding the recruitment of young players and this has got to become a massive part of Everton's future.

Tony Abrahams
88 Posted 19/05/2023 at 07:59:24
Good post, Christine, but the way this is getting reported in the media, it wouldn't surprise me if words have been spoken about Moshiri's ownership and he might have been told that the best thing for him to do is move us on?

His tap has been turned off; it doesn't seem like he's got the money, the heart, or the inclination to carry on anyway, but it's probably the worse-kept secret in football that Usmanov's money has been behind Everton Football Club.

The only reason these sanctions haven't really bitten Everton (except for the best commercial deal the club have ever struck – with USM) is because they have already done an incredible and amateurish job in destroying the club's finances by constantly changing the manager.

Danny O’Neill
89 Posted 19/05/2023 at 08:20:49
David @83,

I have no idea and can only give a personal view.

At the time, I know that English football was plagued with hooliganism. But so were other European countries. Holland wasn't much better. Some of the eastern European countries now are really bad.

Trouble occurred at a lot of matches but English Football was made an example of by Uefa. Be seen to be doing something.

In my humble opinion, only those who created a terrible tragedy should have been punished, not every English club in an era of continental football hooliganism.

Only weeks before, our supporters were commended for their behaviour in Rotterdam.

Same city. Different breed. Pinching a friend's statement, I would rather live with our history than have theirs.

And call me out if I'm wrong, but didn't an official of them try to blame Chelsea supporters at the time? Maybe in context he was suggesting those who made that charge were not real Liverpool supporters. I know enough of them, so I can understand that, but deflecting blame and responsibility was shameful.

Most importantly, 39 football supporters who went to a match lost their lives and never went home. It's forgotten by them. It is ignored. They should have been banned, not the rest of us.

Sorry, I confess to being bitter. They made me bitter because I genuinely believe that team had a chance to be Champions of Europe. They were denied that opportunity because of them.

Christine Foster
90 Posted 19/05/2023 at 12:49:13

I bet you not one has ever stepped into a confessional box and asked for forgiveness. They never will, for what are 39 lives in the great scheme of things if it keeps the other lot from Europe, from winning anything?

A ban? No, it was a relief for them. Shame that they can not even acknowledge their black day because it had a silver lining in their eyes, it prevented us from winning or even competing in Europe.

But it's gone. They have forgotten it like it never happened. The 39 weren't theirs so they didn't matter? It wasn't on a UK ground, so it didn't matter?

A Heysel banner should be displayed at the next derby:

"We Remember the Heysel 39 – Even if you won't"

Christine Foster
91 Posted 19/05/2023 at 12:51:31
Tony, that's the point though, if we were actually well managed with money, like Man City or now Newcastle Utd, we would have had a winning team and also been lauded from the highest hill…

Moral? Winning matters above all else. Who cares where the money came from if you win – just don't dare lose...

Danny O’Neill
92 Posted 19/05/2023 at 13:48:08
Christine, now you've triggered me as I am full of emotion and adrenaline ahead of tomorrow.

My middle brother is much worse than me. He was born in 1976 so experienced success. I used to take him the match and tie him to the ledge.

He was on the pitch after we survived against Wimbledon. He currently has a season ticket, like my nephew. The club can't give me one. I'm priority one, but the waiting list is long. Amazing dedication from our supporters.

My brother is way more bitter than I am. He comments every year on the Heysel anniversary and gets abuse back.

Anyway, back to positivity. We travel to the West Midlands tomorrow. Somewhere in the region of 3,000 of us.

Be there in presence or spirit. Just be there.

David Currie
93 Posted 19/05/2023 at 17:33:18
Danny, I was at Rotterdam for the final in 1985 and also went to one of the earlier away games and never saw any violence. I will always be bitter as we would have had at least 2 goes at winning The European Cup.

Your brother sounds more like me as the ban stopped more wonderful nights like the Bayern game which was my best night game ever. When you look back, 5-year ban for all clubs and a 6-year ban for the team that caused it… MADNESS!

Brian Denton
94 Posted 19/05/2023 at 18:03:27
David (93),

We would probably have won it three times because we'd have qualified as holders in 86-87 season, even though we didn't win the Title in 85-86. We'd have won the 1986 European Cup Final!

Man City will equal our 9 Titles sometime in the next week. All but 2 of those titles have been won since 2011. I fucking hate the Premier League.

Danny O’Neill
95 Posted 19/05/2023 at 18:13:25
And don't forget the Steuea Bucharest banner they wave at the derby in relation to them winning Europe's top competition in 1986 when it could have been us if it wasn't for their actions.

I will stand up to every single one of them.

Peter Carpenter
96 Posted 19/05/2023 at 18:39:34
Burnley should be fucking grateful.
David Currie
97 Posted 19/05/2023 at 19:07:13
Brian @94,

Yes, we would as we were far better than Barcelona and Steau Bucharest and Lineker would never have left the club, nor Howard Kendall later on.

Peter Carpenter
98 Posted 19/05/2023 at 19:07:30
And while we're on the subject of that club, notice how Herr Krapp has tried to turn his ban and fine around to put the FA down, demanding to know if the fine goes to a good cause or not. The twat.

It's a fine because you were in the wrong, arsehole. Shut the fuck up and pay it. They deserve each other. Nasty club, nasty man.

Deborah Maria
99 Posted 19/05/2023 at 19:15:57
Danny @89,

I think Margret Thatcher had as much to do with the ban as Uefa.

David Currie
100 Posted 19/05/2023 at 19:17:07

He has no respect and acts like a big baby when things don't go his way. A lot of the media saying how charming he is which he is of course when they win.

Shows his true colours in difficult times, a horrible man can't stand him and hate everything about his club.

Deborah Maria
101 Posted 19/05/2023 at 19:19:09
And I think it's “I would rather die with our history than live with their shame.”

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