03/09/2023 225comments  |  Jump to last

Everton have reportedly rejected an offer from Saudi club Al Ettifaq for Demarai Gray and will seek to reintegrate him back into the squad despite the player posting his frustration with manager Sean Dyche on Instagram today.

The winger was the subject of plenty of speculation suggesting he would be leaving Goodison Park this summer, first when Fulham were said to be keenly interested in signing him and then when a reported £12m bid came in from Al Shabab in the Saudi Pro League.

Al Shabab's interest was said to be genuine but a change in ownership at the Saudi club stalled their advances for the former Bayer Leverkusen man and supposed interest from another club in the Kingdom didn't initially materialise.

Gray was still an Everton player when the domestic transfer window closed at 11 pm on Friday night and with Everton having sold Alex Iwobi to Fulham and Tom Cannon to Leicester City just before the deadline, numbers are light at Finch Farm.

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Dyche was unable to name a full bench for yesterday's match against Sheffield United and, though the deadline in the Middle East is still a few days away, it looked as though the 27-year-old would stay put, with the manager expressing his expectation that the player would work to get fit to play a part in Everton's season.

“It was a bit of everything — his fitness, his fitness to play in the side, the situation around him and all of the noise," Dyche said after the 2-2 draw at Bramall Lane when asked why Gray hasn't featured in the matchday squad so far this season.

"Hopefully over the next couple of weeks that will become clear and he will get himself fit as a starting point.”

The manager was asked whether he believed Gray would remain at the club and he replied: “I do at this time.”

Since then it has emerged that Al Ettifaq have come in with an offer, variously reportedly to be between £5m and £10m, for Gray but it has been rejected by Everton who are now concerned by the lack of numbers in their squad following those further departures on deadline day.

The player, it seems, is keen to make the move and, with the club digging their heels in, Gray posted an image to Instagram — it has subsequently been removed along with all other posts related to Everton — that read: 

"Everton fans have always been great with me but it's so difficult to play for someone who don't show you respect as a person."

There have been rumours that Gray fell out with Dyche last season over his fitness and weaknesses in or a lack of effort in the defensive side of his game while others suggest he, like Iwobi, was on the wrong side of the manager's desire to have a more "professional" dressing room. 

According to The Athletic, Everton will refuse to sanction his departure and, as Dyche intimated, intend to bring him back into the fold after the international break before revisiting his situation in January. 


Reader Comments (225)

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Nigel Munford
1 Posted 02/09/2023 at 20:58:40
Good news be like a new signing!!
Barry Hesketh
2 Posted 02/09/2023 at 21:04:00
Dyche: "I do at this time", indicates there is still the possibility that Gray moves away from Goodison before our next home game. I still think that Gray has something to offer to the team, even if it's only cameos in later stages of matches, we'll see.
Bill Gienapp
3 Posted 02/09/2023 at 21:12:48
Good. We need him and he'd be a handy weapon off the bench.
Mike Gaynes
4 Posted 02/09/2023 at 21:16:08
Good news. Every bit of quality depth is needed at this point, especially with DCL's return still pending. If he's surplus to needs in January, ship him out, but I'm fine with hanging onto him for the moment.
Kieran Kinsella
5 Posted 02/09/2023 at 21:20:30
Danjuma’s two goals have covered a litany of sins the numerous chances he’s spurned in the last three games. His early Everton career is much like Grays was. They are both exciting but inconsistent. When they score we love them when they have a bad day we rip our hair out. But due to lack of alternatives we need both. The alternative to Gray as we saw today is literally no one just an empty seat on the bench. I don’t know if rumors of a bust up are true, whether Gray was trying to force a move or Sean to force him out. Whatever the case both sides need to move on asap as it’s in all of our best interests for Gray to be in the squad even if as an option off the bench when all else fails. Dobbin is an unproven wild card at this point. We can’t rely on him as the only alternative to Danjuma
Tony Everan
6 Posted 02/09/2023 at 21:22:51
I couldn’t understand why we were selling him, we should have been extending his contract. He’s a good footballer who can make something happen, very valuable as back up and squad strength. Quality off the bench is something we are desperate for.

Instead of the wild goose chase for Gnonto, we should have just kept Gray and focussed on getting a quality midfielder and an experienced CB to rotate when necessary and cover Branthwaite.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
7 Posted 02/09/2023 at 21:26:46
The Oumar Niasse of 2023.

Not got a shirt number at the moment and lost the 11 shirt to Harrison - unless that decision has now been reversed.

Ashley Roberts
8 Posted 02/09/2023 at 21:52:32
I agree with Tony totally. Last season, with no centre-forward, we asked Gray to play out of position, and let's be fair he did a pretty good job given the consequences.

I was informed we wanted to get rid of him because he was coming to the end of his contract and we wanted to cash in. For me, he is just as good a bet as Gnonto and is a lot cheaper.

I also agree that a quality midfield player would have made all of the difference and that is where we should've been looking to recruit on the last days of the transfer window.

I just hope Gray won't just go through the motions now because of the way he has been treated. We need skillful players and, let's be honest, we certainly do not have a glut of players who are comfortable on the ball.

Kieran Kinsella
9 Posted 02/09/2023 at 21:54:30

People bang on about £30 million Iwobi who wanted £100k a week but Gray cost a pittance, earns less, and has been about as productive over the last 2 years.

Colin Glassar
10 Posted 02/09/2023 at 22:04:43

Gray is miles better than the Fulham player. End of.

Mark Ryan
11 Posted 02/09/2023 at 22:04:50
Happy that he's staying. A good footballer who can cross a ball. We'll need him to get the best out of Beto.
Habib Erkan Jr
12 Posted 02/09/2023 at 22:58:05
Will he be part of the Jamaican squad that plays Friday against Honduras? If so, that speaks volumes.
Shane Corcoran
13 Posted 02/09/2023 at 23:27:36
Good point about the squad number. Dyche can’t have wanted him to stay on that basis but he’ll have a part to play nonetheless.
Neil Tyrrell
14 Posted 03/09/2023 at 00:43:31
Curious about the change of ownership of the Saudi club and what difference it made.

I was under the impression the whole league was under one ownership… granted I pay about as much attention to it as LIV Golf.

David West
15 Posted 03/09/2023 at 00:47:36
They probably wouldn't have minded if he left and we made a decent profit on him. However, with Iwobi going for £22M, keeping Gray seems like good business.

Never disliked him. He's one who will give his all and is not afraid to make a mistake or take the ball when times are tough. His end product has always been his issue.

As is his decision-making, when he gets in so many good positions with good options but fails to capitalise, a lot like Iwobi.

£10M for Gray or £22M for Iwobi. I'd rather keep Gray. Get him back involved if the Saudis aren't going to pay £150M… He, he!

Kieran Kinsella
16 Posted 03/09/2023 at 01:10:17
David and Neil,

I may be getting confused with something else but I thought in Sunday school that a descendant from the tribe of Andy Gray would lead Everton out of the oppression of Anfield into the holy land of BMD and that he would be our Messiah.

Now it's possible I'm confusing it with something else but I'm pretty sure that's what I was told…

Jerome Shields
17 Posted 03/09/2023 at 04:39:43
Gray is a victim of Everton trying to offload at a profit. He probably found himself shoved into the shop window. Everton during the Summer were linked to that many wingers, it was as if he was gone.
Eric Myles
18 Posted 03/09/2023 at 05:38:04
How is he not fit? If he was interested in a move to another club surely he would have kept himself in condition to make a new start?

Or maybe Dyche was telling the truth when he said Gray is injured? More likely Dyche froze him out though if he wasn't given a squad number. Hope he's still got his locker, or maybe he can find Niasse's in the store room and dust it off.

Jim Bennings
19 Posted 03/09/2023 at 07:17:30
Surely he's fit already?

I can't get my head around this "Sean Dyche fit" shit.

If he's trained anywhere this summer then he surely is fit!?

Michael Kenrick
20 Posted 03/09/2023 at 08:16:09
Jim & Eric,

I can't understand why, in early September, he needs to be 'reintegrated' into the squad??? Yes, he probably spent pretty much the whole of July with the Jamaica squad at the Gold Cup, then probably on his jollies after their semi-final defeat on 13 July, but no other internationals needed reintegration.

Presumably he then doesn't return to Finch Farm, which seems just ridiculous for one of the few player 'assets' of value we actually have. Surely maintaining his fitness (or regaining it after his personal summer break) should be a prime concern of the Everton training staff right up until the point where he actually leaves the club?

But the completely unnecessary transfer of his shirt number to Jack Harrison (there are loads of available squad numbers) probably signifies the half-arsed laissez-faire utter lack of professionalism that bedevils this benighted apology for a Premier League club.

Robert Leigh
21 Posted 03/09/2023 at 08:20:14
I haven't seen anything about the squad number, no pictures of Harrison with “11” just wiki having a guess (though now it says Gray 11 and Harrison 30).

Hope we keep Gray, losing him on a free next Summer having bought him for £1.5M 3 years ago is worth it if he scores/assists 10 times this season.

Bill Fairfield
22 Posted 03/09/2023 at 08:56:21
The treatment of this lad leaves a lot to be desired. Never gives less than 100%. But has been put in the shop window like a piece of meat.

Wouldn't blame him if he had a half-arsed attitude now. But he'll probably prove he's more professional than this chronically badly run club.

Jeff Armstrong
23 Posted 03/09/2023 at 09:03:00
Dyche loves that saying “all the noise” doesn't he, constantly uses it. Change your tune, Sean, and while you're at it, tell us why we only had 5 outfield players on the bench yesterday?

Were Keane and Dobbin injured? We don't know cos nobody tells us. How is Dele Alli doing? Is he days, weeks or months away from being back into the squad?

Communication from the club is abysmal.

John Hall
24 Posted 03/09/2023 at 09:36:52
Fit or unfit?

Dyche should get Gray back in the squad as soon as possible.

Not enough players to fill a bench is bullshit on his behalf with two reserve keepers on show.

Can't believe he is not fit enough for 20-30 minutes having recently played for Jamaica.

Obviously something gone on between them both but, in the best interests of the paper-thin squad, we currently have they should sort it ASAP. Garner is no winger by any stretch of the imagination and fits best at central-midfield or right-back in an emergency.

Harrison seemingly quite a way off full fitness until after the break so no other candidate for that right-sided slot. Patterson hung out to dry without the help of a wide man willing to track back.

Yes, he bombs on and leaves himself exposed quite a lot but in the absence of a proper winger to supply crosses his inexperience sometimes gets the better of him. Another loss yesterday without his cross for definite!

I for one was calling for Dyche to come in and save us, which he did, but he does tend to ramble on continually about what we need to do rather than getting the players to actually do what he speaks about.

Very economical with the truth and rarely discusses the true state of affairs concerning players. Dobbin, Keane and Gray all missing yesterday. Tell us the truth and be honest with the fans as nobody else communicates with the fan base.

Another Bungalow Bill mouthpiece, one fears.

Michael Kenrick
25 Posted 03/09/2023 at 09:44:42
Robert @21,

You might be onto something... the shirt number 11 for Jack Harrison seems to have come from a social media post by The Bobble, and parrotted by the Echo, but may not have been officially confirmed.

It seems that the Number 11 has therefore been fully reinstated for Gray as this is what he now has showing on the official website.

As for Harrison's number? Well, seems he is the new Niasse with a pretty unique Squad Number of 0 (Zero)!

Si Cooper
26 Posted 03/09/2023 at 10:41:03
People extrapolating a lot from the fact that he's not currently been sold.

I can't see the bit where Dyche has said he will actually be playing for us in the near future, rather than simply stating he's currently not going anywhere else.

He's got to get fit ‘as a starting point' so presumably he needs to prove something else to Dyche to get a game.

Phil Sammon
27 Posted 03/09/2023 at 10:42:32
Gray on Instagram:-

Everton fans have always been great to me but it's so difficult to play for someone who don't show you respect as a person.


Well…that's interesting.

Mark Tanton
28 Posted 03/09/2023 at 10:55:11
He shouldn't be sounding off about Dyche publicly. This is where people need good mates around them to give them advice and steer them away from posting stuff.
Paul Tran
29 Posted 03/09/2023 at 11:02:43
I watch the pressers, in which I saw Dyche say that Keane, Dobbin & Gomes had 'knocks', Harrison was 'on the grass', Calvert-Lewin was 'keeping fit on his own' (presumably to protect his face), and that Gray was 'still our player' and 'needs to re-integrate himself into the group'.

There are clearly issues between Dyche and Gray, but I expect Dyche to keep that in-house.

Alex Gray
30 Posted 03/09/2023 at 11:18:16
By all accounts, Gray is still off to Saudi and I think the Instagram post is a clear sign that he's off. If we had any sense we'd charge them through the roof. We can't get a replacement and we already haven't got a bench.

Personally, I'd say make it £20M or he stays. Might be awful on the player but it's about time we started playing hardball.

Allen Rodgers
31 Posted 03/09/2023 at 11:19:39
Gray being given away by Everton for less than £5M. Still a profit but I was hoping for double that.
Brian Harrison
32 Posted 03/09/2023 at 11:24:27
Dyches treatment of Gray is very similar to the treatment of Digne by Benitez. Obviously it seems that Dyche wants shut, but there is a right way and a wrong way of doing it and I think he and Benitez got it massively wrong.

I don't think we will see Gray back in an Everton shirt, because it's difficult to see any way Dyche will select him, so I would imagine that he will move in January.

No doubt when asked at future press conferences about Gray, Dyche will say he is training with the team and when chances come he will be ready.

For a team desperately lacking in goals to treat your 2nd highest goal scorer from last season this way makes no sense.

Andrew Ellams
33 Posted 03/09/2023 at 11:28:36
It looks like the money that we got for Iwobi has convinced the board to let Gray go for a reduced price. Ridiculous.
Colin Glassar
34 Posted 03/09/2023 at 11:32:14
I don't mind if Gray stays but I think he's trying to burn his bridges with this type of stuff. If he wants to go, sell him. But on our terms.

I can't stand players who “go on strike“ or sulk on social media. There are other ways to deal with this. Why don't any of these incredibly sad and mistreated souls just resign, rip up their contracts and walk away without any compensation?

Mick O'Malley
35 Posted 03/09/2023 at 11:47:42
Colin agreed, wouldn't it be refreshing if a player who really wants to make the move rip their contracts up if they are that desperate, he'll be earning again as soon he moves so what's the problem?

That was why I didn't want Gnonto anywhere near Everton after he threw a paddy and missed Leeds's first 3 league games, if someone came in for him while with us, who's to say he won't do it again?

Jack Convery
36 Posted 03/09/2023 at 11:54:13
Clicked on that link but saw nothing. What has Gray actually said?
Paul Tran
37 Posted 03/09/2023 at 11:57:22
"Everton fans have always been great with me, but I can't play for someone who doesn't respect me as a person."

Sean Mitchell
38 Posted 03/09/2023 at 11:58:09
Sean will continue to play our only creative midfielder on the right and leave Gray out.

The squad is threadbare as it is.

Gray should be staying regardless of the Saudis.

Terribly run club.

Oliver Molloy
39 Posted 03/09/2023 at 12:36:51
The way I see it, Gray just isn't a Dyche type player, he doesn't do enough round the pitch, can't tackle and probably this manager's biggest requirement, he does not get stuck in.

We all know Gray has ability and can score the odd wonder goal, but he flatters to deceive most of the time. So, unless we are down to the bare bones, Dyche isn't going to give Gray a game unless there is a change in attitude from Gray of course.

Gray giving his opinion on Dyche publicly isn't going to help him. Rumours he doesn't fancy the Saudi Pro League, and wants to stay in England.

Kevin Molloy
40 Posted 03/09/2023 at 12:44:03
This is a fire sale. It's happening right in front of our eyes, just slowed down a little so as not to panic the horses.

It'll be Branthwaite next year, and Pickford the year after that. Moshiri has realised he's lost hundreds of millions that he's never getting back and is slowly selling off what he can whilst trying frantically to sell the club to a muppet as stupid as he is.

It'll be a long wait. The nonsense with the Instagram post is just a distraction, probably Bill's idea!

Christine Foster
41 Posted 03/09/2023 at 12:44:30
"Everton fans have always been great with me but it's so difficult to play for someone who don't show you respect as a person" — Gray wrote on Instagram.

BBC just reported, Gray having a go at Dyche...

Kevin Naylor
42 Posted 03/09/2023 at 12:58:16
If Dyche is not careful, this will be the start of players downing tools, they've done it before several times.
Barry Hesketh
43 Posted 03/09/2023 at 12:59:39
Reading between the lines, Gray would have preferred to move away sooner;, the club, possibly following Iwobi's move, blocked that move… and now, by sending this message, he's forcing the club to release him.

Whatever is the truth of it, it's a mess we don't need to have.

Ernie Baywood
44 Posted 03/09/2023 at 13:02:42
Gray has talent but was immediately frozen out upon Dyche's arrival.

I think it's hard to say it must be his attitude when that happened automatically when Dyche came in.

He eventually played him a couple of times out of desperation.

He obviously just needs to go now. But I still struggle to see how he has no role at all at this club while we continue to pay his wages.

He's far too good to not even make the bench – and whatever you might think of Gray, that's not particularly good management at a club with minimal playing assets.

Robert Miller
45 Posted 03/09/2023 at 13:07:53
Just on the BBC. Gray criticising Dyche on social media:

Demarai Gray appears to criticise Everton boss Sean Dyche in social media post

This is a long way from what we need.

Gray could and should be key for us this year if he's firing on all cylinders.

Mike Price
46 Posted 03/09/2023 at 13:09:07
I've always liked Gray and thought him one of our very few skilled players. Dyche seems to revere stature and work rate but not too bothered about actual skill.

Maybe the outdated and dinosaur comments are on the money; if so, it won't be long before he's gone.

Jim Lloyd
47 Posted 03/09/2023 at 13:11:24
If you're a manager, I'd have thought you'd utilise all the talents at your disposal.

Gray has a lot of talent and can score goals. We don't have lots of talent to waste.

Dan Nulty
48 Posted 03/09/2023 at 13:12:48
To be fair, I don't think I have seen anyone criticising Dyche previously. Virtually everyone goes on about how good his man-management is and how much he appears to care about you.

I wonder if Dyche was told to freeze him out as one of the few saleable assets. Or perhaps they had a run in last season when he was benched and Dyche didn't like his attitude. Either way, it is a bit immature to put the boot in when you go.

Jack Convery
49 Posted 03/09/2023 at 13:13:29
The Arabic news source reported on its online edition on Sunday (3 August) that Gray underwent the medical in London.

Gray will sign a 3- o 4-year contract with Al-Ettifaq on a reputed salary of around $6 million (£4.8M) a year, which is also the same amount Everton will receive for the transfer.

Sean Kelly
50 Posted 03/09/2023 at 13:15:54
Dinosaur manager suiting dinosaur club. If there's disrespect between manager and player, and possibly vice versa, then that just shows how low our club has sunk.

I don't care who doesn't get on with who but everyone on the playing staff should be given a chance to prove themselves good enough to play in the first team. When the team plays, all playing and non-playing staff should have the same targets and ambitions.

Perform for the team the club and most of all the supporters. A hit-and-miss Gray is better on the pitch than an out-of-position player.

Neil Copeland
51 Posted 03/09/2023 at 13:22:17
I think the fact that Gray has chosen to comment on social media rather than sorting out his differences with Dyche in private tells us all we need to know. We are only hearing one side of the story, I know, but, if this is how Gray reacts, then I really don't blame Dyche for not playing him.

A shame because he is a talented player who has scored some fantastic and important goals for us. But, the overall teamwork and right attitude is absolutely paramount and it sounds like Gray is unable or unwilling to bury the hatchet and get on with it.

We have little choice if the difference in opinion is true other than get what we can for him whilst we can.

So, thanks for some good moments, Demarai, and good luck in Saudi Arabia. A word of advice though, do not criticise your future coach on social media.

Will Mabon
52 Posted 03/09/2023 at 13:52:23
How fast the BBC are to "feature" Everton when it's problems or negativity, minor or otherwise.

Anything good is almost always met with tumbleweed.

Tony Everan
53 Posted 03/09/2023 at 13:54:10
Only £6M offered, and gave us a 24-hour deadline. Seems very low, I was expecting £10-15M from a Saudi move.

I still say keep him and offer him a new deal, he can go to Saudi in a couple of years. Are we the only club in Europe the Saudis play hardball with?!

Michael Boardman
54 Posted 03/09/2023 at 13:55:50
Dyche could be a problem.
Andrew Flanagan
55 Posted 03/09/2023 at 13:57:37
Not sure Dyche is going to work out is it.
Dale Self
56 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:02:46
Naw, just a perception problem. Wash those stains out of your kit and wear it with pride again. Beto saves.
Barry Hesketh
57 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:04:54
Quite separate from this Gray episode, I have been reading on here and also on other fan sites, what appears to be an ever larger outpouring of opinion, and perhaps a co-ordinated effort to see the removal of Dyche as Everton boss.

Personally, I can't see it happening at least not right now, but I wondered if those fans travelling around the country are getting similar vibes from their fellow supporters?

Neil Copeland
58 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:09:22
Barry, I can't say that I've noticed that at away games. There has been plenty of frustration and I do hear supporters wanting Dyche to make a change but no real calls for his head that I have heard so far.
Paul Tran
59 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:09:47
Dyche seemed reluctant to play Gray when he arrived. Sometimes managers don't fancy certain players, looks like the case here.

Whatever's happened between him and Dyche, Gray has gone out of his way to burn his bridges, so let's get him shipped out and move on.

Dale Self
60 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:13:17
Overrated. All I'm hearing is people saying that other people are saying something.

And what move do they have? They will simply have to wait out results. And then have a cuppa.

Paul Smith
61 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:13:55
Benitez fucks Digne off and gets dog's abuse, seems this is similar, if you rate Damarai that is.

Well enough fans sang his name last season and he gives us an option, so it begs the question: Why doesn't Dyche rate him?

Dale Self
62 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:18:03
We score two goals and should have had four and someone misses Gray? Is that for his defensive tracking back?

Danjuma showed his claim on that position. You don't have to get weird about why he isn't selected. Scoreboard man.

Brian Williams
63 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:25:22
Dyche mentioned Gray's fitness.

Now I have no inside info but, if Gray is say somewhat reticent to work hard to be "fit", that wouldn't do for Dyche whose mantra (a perfect one IMO) is "minimum requirement is maximum effort."

If Gray's not giving maximum effort in training, then that's why he's been frozen out. Could be as simple as that.

Robert Tressell
64 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:26:58
I'm not sure what Dyche has actually done to disrespect Gray – who is an okay player but hardly Kanchelskis. Danjuma and Dobbin cover the position – with Harrison and McNeil also.

So it makes sense to sell, which seems to be what we're trying to do with just a year left on his contract.

Mal van Schaick
65 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:37:57
Gray has been found wanting in his fitness, according to reports from the manager. There is obviously a clash between player and manager, it is up to Gray to knuckle down, get himself fit and, in my book, he is worthy of place in the squad.

I hope that he stays for the rest of the season but, if not, we can cash in, in the January window, and recruit a replacement or two.

Anthony Jones
66 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:41:47
If his kids are in the Midlands, he will want to be closer to them.

Seems people forget that players are human.

Good winger though.

Brian Williams
67 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:45:18
Well he's burnt his bridges spouting off on social media.
Silly boy!
Andy Meighan
72 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:45:19
Paul @59,

Why would we want to ship him out?

The squad is woefully short on numbers as it is.

The money we got for him would disappear into a hole like the Gordon money.

Anyway he's a much better option out wide than Garner who's done absolutely nothing there in the 4 games this season.

This almost seems like Benitez's treatment of James… stubborness bordering on arrogance.

I hope Dyche goes before Gray because I can't see where the 10 wins and 7 draws are coming from under his tutelage.

Raymond Fox
73 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:53:00
I always rated Gray but Dyche is boss. Sounds like Gray has not been doing things to Dyche's liking.

Ferguson was the daddy, if a player didn't shape himself or crossed Ferguson, he was history.

As for Dyche being a dinosaur manager, give us a break! He has plenty of experience behind him plus his back-up team to advise. He'll know every way there is to play football, it's hardly rocket science, is it?

It does help if you have a few stars in your team who can get you results, top players make managers look good.

I like the look of Danjuma and Beto, they will increase our scoring rate no end.

Paul Tran
74 Posted 03/09/2023 at 14:56:31
Robert #64,

I'm not sure if anyone knows what's happened here, but there's plenty on here who didn't/don't want Dyche as manager and, like with Koeman and Niasse, they've found a convenient stick to beat him with.

Another inconsistent, good-on-his-day player with not long left on his contract, spouting off on social media.

If he doesn't want to play for us, let him go for as much money as possible as soon as possible.

Ed Prytherch
75 Posted 03/09/2023 at 15:05:29
Dyche cannot afford to have a player in the squad who is giving less than 100% and Gray may be one. That is the simple explanation. It only takes one bad apple.
Steve Brown
76 Posted 03/09/2023 at 15:12:48
He isn’t the right profile for a winger under Dyche, and assumed he would move this summer.

When he was told on deadline day that he would have to stay, he has probably discussed options with his agent to force a move. Seems to have worked.

Dale Self
77 Posted 03/09/2023 at 15:14:01
One possibly unfair treatment of Gray, and I stress 'possibly', is if he is regarded as one of the mentally frail players who had their chance and must move to a new environment.

He really didn't get the support of a structured offence like Iwobi but both had their chances in the box. Had they converted just a couple, we would not be talking in these terms.

Christy Ring
78 Posted 03/09/2023 at 15:15:06
Gray played for Jamaica during the summer, so he should be fit, and we only had 7 subs yesterday.

Garner is definitely not working as a winger, so we should keep Gray now. He's definitely good enough to make our small squad, but if Harrison was given Gray's number, it's very unprofessional from Dyche.

Ian Bennett
79 Posted 03/09/2023 at 15:23:11
The Echo are carrying a story he's passed a medical in advance of a £4.7M move to Gerrard's Saudi club.

That isn't his market value surely..

Sam Hoare
80 Posted 03/09/2023 at 15:56:00
Whatever happened behind closed doors, there's no way Gray should be airing his dirty laundry like that on social media. Highly unprofessional.

Hopefully we can get some decent money for him. Harrison and Danjuma are better anyway.

Alan J Thompson
81 Posted 03/09/2023 at 16:00:01
In Dyche's own words, "Minimum requirement is maximum effort". So perhaps he should apply it to himself if he can't see that one of the two outcomes of transfer negotiations is that they can break down.

He should have had Gray training with the rest of the squad in the event of the transfer not going through. Surely it is not too difficult to engage both possible outcomes and pay Gray the respect to advise him that, until the transfer is settled, he will only be considered from the bench each game.

If he thinks that he can determine the transfer's outcome by his treatment of the player, then perhaps he should apply to join Mr Koeman's staff.

Ed Prytherch
82 Posted 03/09/2023 at 16:01:09
IMO, Gray is playing the victim.
Dale Self
83 Posted 03/09/2023 at 16:13:02
Alan 81,

I don't think Dyche and Thelwell want Gray in the kit room. Gray's expressions on social media give a clue to what cannot be observed. You simply have no measure of Dyche's effort, just a slanderous supposition

Paul Smith
84 Posted 03/09/2023 at 16:18:01
Unprofessional of Gray maybe to spout off on Social Media but doesn't mean he's suddenly a bad apple and hasn't been treated badly. Let's not make stuff up rather than question Mr Dyche in this as well.
Barry Hesketh
85 Posted 03/09/2023 at 16:21:35
Neil @58,

Thanks, you've confirmed what I believed to be true, it seems then it's more a case of mostly social media users, showing their lack of belief in the manager.

Alan J Thompson
86 Posted 03/09/2023 at 16:21:49

Then tell me why do you think Gray doesn't seem to have been in Dyche's plans and it is okay for him to comment on the player in a Press interview but not for the player to do similar which seems to be in response?

And it wouldn't be slander but libel but probably neither as it is an opinion and no more supposition than yours.

Dale Self
87 Posted 03/09/2023 at 16:27:46
Alan, not to be a smartass but this is a collective effort on TW and the posts above address your first question directly.

As for the second question, I haven't checked directly but what did Dyche say about Gray? And are you sure his wasn't a response to a journo which puts him on the spot? I think Gray had absolute free will on his communications. Those are not really comparable in the way you have framed it.

Lee Courtliff
88 Posted 03/09/2023 at 16:28:41
Dyche does have some history of this kind of thing. In 2018, he signed Ben Gibson for a club joint record fee of £15M... then never played him!

Gibson made only 1 League start for Burnley and that was against us on Boxing Day 2018... naturally he scored but we won 5-1!

Gibson is on record as saying they he had basically no relationship with the manager whatsoever and eventually couldn't wait to leave the club.

It's also well known amongst Burnley fans that Dyche has his favourites and was, eventually, too loyal to them. They also say he did well with limited funds but did waste money when he finally had a decent amount to spend.

Anyway, Gray has been a fantastic signing for us considering the fee we paid for him and he would have been far more effective than Garner on the right-wing this season. I don't see how he can be injured when he's played for Jamaica?

Good luck to him in the future.

Dale Self
89 Posted 03/09/2023 at 16:36:28
Ben Gibson plays for Norwich City now.
Alan J Thompson
90 Posted 03/09/2023 at 16:42:26
Dale (#87);

You'll find Mr Dyche's comments in Lyndon's piece at the top, but please tell us why you think Dyche and Thelwell don't want him in the kit room?

Raymond Fox
91 Posted 03/09/2023 at 16:46:09
Dyche sets the standards, if they don't reach them, they don't play. He comes across as a no-nonsense straight-talking chap to me.

It can't be easy dealing with a squad of rich young men.

Dale Self
92 Posted 03/09/2023 at 16:50:55
He just did Alan. It is subtle I admit but you can work that out for yourself with all the clues provided. None of us know for sure what has happened. I tend to not side with the ones that talk a lot in these episodes.

Again, Dyche was asked a direct question after a game. He is required to provide a credible response. Gray's situation is more like going to the press when you can't get what you want. That is a massive difference in motivation to communicate.

Alan J Thompson
93 Posted 03/09/2023 at 17:02:35
Dale (#92);

I think Gray initially said that he'd prefer to stay in England for the sake of his young family. As for Dyche's response, he could just have left it at "not considering the player due to the transfer talk in the Press" but that may have led to further questions as to why he isn't fit and what the injury is to which he alludes.

Then there is the very small matter of a shirt number, as you say, reading between the lines.

Dale Self
94 Posted 03/09/2023 at 17:12:03
I don’t do social media but your account omits some inflammatory stuff on Gray’s to which other posts have referred.
Mike Price
95 Posted 03/09/2023 at 17:15:26
The fee mentioned is ridiculous, he’s miles better than Iwobi.
Paul Tran
96 Posted 03/09/2023 at 17:20:25
I've looked the the official site and a few others. All have Gray as No 11. The official site has Harrison as No 0.

Has his number really been 'taken away'? Or has someone thought he was leaving us and put two and two together and 'given' it to Harrison?

Or is this an imaginary stick to beat Dyche with?

Alan J Thompson
97 Posted 03/09/2023 at 17:24:19
Paul (#96);

Or is it possible, as has been mentioned somewhere on this site, that the shirt numbers have been changed from those first published to that which now appears as you have reported.

Ed Prytherch
98 Posted 03/09/2023 at 17:38:55
The fee mentioned is ridiculous, he's miles better than Iwobi.

Gray left Leicester City for free when they declined to offer him another contract. He accepted an 18-month contract with Beyer Leverkusen and after 6 months they let him go for £1.7 million. Now we cannot get rid of him.

He is hardly a player in demand…

Kieran Kinsella
99 Posted 03/09/2023 at 17:45:32
If the fans have been great with you, why are you repaying them by publicly criticizing the manager at a time when we need all hands on deck?

Very selfish and petulant behaviour from Gray.

Paul Tran
100 Posted 03/09/2023 at 17:49:56
Alan #97,

The official site currently has Gray 11 and Harrison 0. The only reference I've seen about Gray 'losing' his number is a tweet from El Bobble.

I can only guess that tweet was on the basis that Gray was leaving, as per all the summer rumours. There appears to be no evidence that Dyche has 'taken' his number off him.

Ray Jacques
101 Posted 03/09/2023 at 18:23:22
Gray isn't good enough to shout the odds at the manager.
Mike Gaynes
102 Posted 03/09/2023 at 18:37:32
We won't know for sure about the shirt numbers until Harrison and Gray appear on the pitch, and neither seems imminent.

But Gray certainly seems to have a higher opinion of his abilities than Dyche does.

Personally, I'm with Dyche. Much as I enjoy watching Gray's skills, the fact is that he's a one-way attacking player (no real defensive work) who scores a goal every 450 minutes on the pitch, and has a goal involvement every 300.

That sucks. That's horrible, historically bad, way worse than Beattie or Big Vic or Tosun. It's one-third the scoring rate of Niasse for shit's sake (162 minutes).

Gray may be a fine fellow and a fine talent, but he needs to pull his head out of his ass (and off social media) and raise his performance level for this club.

Mike Corcoran
103 Posted 03/09/2023 at 18:46:40
He maybe comes across as a loner and a bit of a misery which may upset the dressing room vibe. If he goes we could try for a short deal on out of contract Roberto Pereyra who can cover a number of positions across the midfield. Played with Beto last year, 5 goals in 34 league games.
Mike Corcoran
104 Posted 03/09/2023 at 18:55:17
And 7 assists
Brian Harrison
105 Posted 03/09/2023 at 19:27:53
Mike 102

Dont quite know why you are comparing Gray's goal returns to out-and-out strikers, would you like to do a comparison with Iwobi who plays in the same role.

I know Iwobi played most games last year and scored 2 goals, so heaven knows that works out in minutes played per goals scored, and Gray, who didn't play every game last season, scored 5 league goals.

Also it's Everton who have rejected the Saudi offer for Gray, which is reported to be 5 times what we paid for him, and if Dyche doesn't want him then why block his transfer?

Mike Price
106 Posted 03/09/2023 at 19:54:58
Ed #98 He’s still better than Iwobi.
Mick Davies
107 Posted 03/09/2023 at 20:28:47
Raymond @ 91,

Dyche sets the standards, if they don't reach them, they don't play. He comes across as a no-nonsense straight-talking chap to me.

I have just one answer to that comment – Michael Keane

Ashley Roberts
108 Posted 03/09/2023 at 20:32:18
With all of the money being spent on Premier League players by the Saudis, I cannot believe we are only going to get less than £5M for Gray. Seems like gross incompetence by the board again!!

As I keep banging on, at least we know what Gray provides. I think he can do a good job for us and would be a great tactical player to have in the squad.

Even if he walks at the end of his contract, he hardly cost us a fortune and is far cheaper than Gnonto would have been. Keeping him is a win-win situation; now we just have to make sure we can convince him to show us what he can do. He knows the fans are pretty much on his side here.

Jerome Shields
109 Posted 03/09/2023 at 20:33:44
My interpretation is that Gray was put in the shop window by Everton and Dyche was told that, if an offer came, Gray would be leaving.

Gray did not want to move, having a young family. But found himself isolated from the squad. No English move happened, and then Saudi, which was even worse for Gray.

Dyche somehow has placed himself as the main fall guy for Gray's anger for being sold. Not very bright on Dyche's part, but he is working for a club that would sell their granny if there was value in it.

Mick Davies
110 Posted 03/09/2023 at 20:41:56
Ashley, excellent post.

To those who criticise Demarai for not tracking back, watch some of the games where he helps Seamus out and runs back to our area, something I haven't seen Garner do yet, or for that matter, Doucouré.

Remember, for most of his (few) games last season, Gray was playing the lone striker role, and I guarantee no-one will be roasting Beto over his defensive game this season… perspective please, fellow Blues

Neil Gribbin
111 Posted 03/09/2023 at 20:46:42
A whiny little turd, who has stamped his feet on social media.
Half of you on here normally berate players who do this on here, but now it's something to bang in your favour about the manager, it's allowed?

Let the little weapon go. He's really not that good. I for one won't miss him

Oliver Molloy
112 Posted 03/09/2023 at 20:58:44
For fuck's sake, do not try and compare Gray and Beto, the later is a huge unit compared the nimble Gray.

How many 50 / 50s have you seen Gray pull out of!

Ian Riley
113 Posted 03/09/2023 at 21:04:10
This is everyday stuff in the workplace. Do your job that you are very well paid for.

You don't have to get on with Dyche. The club, the team, and fans need you to help us. Going public doesn't help anyone.

Christine Foster
114 Posted 03/09/2023 at 21:06:17
Smoke and burning embers of discontent. It's clear that there is a breakdown in trust between the two, with Everton clearly trying to bring in a wide player in Gnonto from Leeds, him reading his shirt number is given to another player, true or not.

Gray, even if words passed between them or not, must have put 2+2 together and seen the writing on the wall. He had rave reviews playing for Jamaica but obviously didn't fit with Dyche's plans. He probably came back from international duty and rightly sought answers from Dyche as to what was going on and didn't get the reply he wanted to hear.

We can speculate but the only itch we can scratch is that Gray has been offloaded for peanuts twice before, which in these days of ridiculous fees makes no sense whatsoever except the clubs involved saw him surplus and wanted him gone.

For Gray to post on social media after hearing that he will be reintegrated into the squad, can only point to a breakdown of trust between the two.

Managers have to manage players' expectations as well as team performance, clearly this hasn't gone down well.

Mark Ryan
115 Posted 03/09/2023 at 21:07:11
Sean Dyche needs to do what many managers don't seem able to do and that is to forgive and forget and to simply integrate Gray into the team.

Dyche is paid Rock star wages. He needs to be the adult here and use his resource. Our resources are finite and Dyche cannot afford to be stubborn here. Grow a pair Sean and get on with your job

Michael Kenrick
116 Posted 03/09/2023 at 21:15:54
I'd go with Brian's theory @63, that Gray has not been achieving Dyche's fitness targets, and that's why he hasn't been played, but feels he has been 'disrespected'.

That could make it difficult for Dyche to be the adult, Mark, as he might have to lower his targets, which should in any case be tailored to the individual rather than the good old PE teacher approach that everyone has to do what's on the chart for the day.

John Williams
117 Posted 03/09/2023 at 21:25:03
From memory, I think Gray had a similar issue at

He was then shunted off to Germany.

Maybe he is the problem?

Kevin Molloy
118 Posted 03/09/2023 at 21:25:39
I get the impression that if you go around calling Dyche 'Gaffer' and throwing yourself into his training days with 'Gafferballs' – as outlined by current golden boy, Michael Keane, then things tend to go well for you.

It's not just Demarai that has been handled rather poorly. We had the opportunity to have Coady for £4M which we blew. In fact, Coady was unceremoniously dropped and only turned to again in desperation when Keane became untenable.

Equally Mina (a far superior defender) is no longer with us, but plying his trade at much-reduced wages elsewhere. He was popular here, it loooks like he was also encouraged to head off.

Good players forced out cos they don't fit the manager's profile. That's always been the case to a certain extent. but beggars can't be choosers, and some of his choices are starting to hurt us.

We will probably lose £10M on Gray now cos of this stand-off, and have to keep on playing Garner. Not great.

Bobby Mallon
119 Posted 03/09/2023 at 21:25:49
Colin @34 & Mick @35,

He can't just walk away – the club wouldn't let him if they think he can make them some money in a transfer.

Bobby Mallon
120 Posted 03/09/2023 at 21:27:41
Kieran 99 because the manager isn’t playing him
Bobby Mallon
121 Posted 03/09/2023 at 21:33:49
Ian Riley, he wants to do his job but his cock of a manager won’t let him
Dan Nulty
122 Posted 03/09/2023 at 21:34:22
Said on another thread, there aren't many quotes out there of players criticising Dyche's man management.

I think it slightly strange to criticise Dyche for not re-signing Mina, as class as he is he was hardly ever available.

I'd have preferred to have kept Coady but given we had preagreed payment terms on the 4.5m presumably it wouldn't have suited us having got no money in the bank.

Mark Taylor
123 Posted 03/09/2023 at 21:34:46
In the scheme of things, Gray was a great buy given how much money we throw away on transfer fees and vast inflated wages.

But I think we will have enough cover for him and we need the cash, whatever we raise is straight into profit, pretty much. I hope it's not too late for a move, though I can well see why Saudi wouldn't appeal much to him, unless they paid very big wages, and even then

Ed Prytherch
124 Posted 03/09/2023 at 21:56:55
I don't believe that it was Dyche's decision to not offer Mina another contract. It was made before he arrived.

Coady was not picked up by another premiership club.

Gray has been bought by Leicester, Leverkusen and Everton and 3.7M was the most that anyone paid for him.

Oliver Molloy
125 Posted 03/09/2023 at 22:01:47
Looks like Gray is going nowhere, not at the money currently being offered anyway.
Sean O’Hanlon
126 Posted 03/09/2023 at 22:12:45
Who really gives a fuck?
We are the laughing stock of world football.
It's our time. We're going down.
Accept it - then it won't be as hard on supporters when we acknowledge the crap that will be served up to us this season. We are no longer a great club. We're finished.
Face reality. WE ARE A JOKE! Move on. Find another interest in your sorry lives.
Mike Gaynes
127 Posted 03/09/2023 at 22:16:16
Brian #105, Iwobi plays the whole pitch and rarely gets into the box. Gray plays much farther forward. They are not comparable.

Mick #110, you're right, Gray actually puts in the effort to track back... he's just not very good at winning the ball or covering runners when he gets there. So he's not really a defensive contributor. Sort of like Gana at the attacking end -- always in the right place and trying hard, but...

Ed #124, agreed... Mina clearly loved it here but he was certainly not gonna take a pay cut, and I think Thelwell and management looked at his pay-per-games-played and said farewell, friend. And as much as I loved the guy when he played, I'm delighted to see Branthwaite getting his chance.

Sean #126, you must be an insider expert on "sorry lives" if can expend part of it putting up a post like that, but thanks for stopping by.

Dale Self
128 Posted 03/09/2023 at 22:35:39
Sean 126, yours is the kind of post that is tricky. I’m trying to make it out but it looks rather weighted down with that doomy cliche stuff. It’s like you turned a sharp corner and lost me.

I’m willing to give it another go if you can work up an alternative version. Sincerely.

Jack Convery
129 Posted 03/09/2023 at 22:43:51
Lets start a petition to get EFC to sign Roberto Pereyra on free.
Lester Yip
130 Posted 04/09/2023 at 01:08:13
Not sure what's happened behind the scene that Gray said the manager disrespect him. Probably giving his number away while he's still here?

Gray and Iwobi both are not very good at defending but not enough effort is definitely not. I will still give Gray a chance as Danjuma is also hot and cold type of player. So Gray can replace him if he's got an off day.

Kieran Kinsella
131 Posted 04/09/2023 at 01:16:54
I read an interview with Gray today from The Athletic about two years ago. He said he had several “breakdowns” when he was at Leicester abs left out of the team. He struggled in Germany under quartantine because he’s a family man and was isolated. He doesn’t do drugs but implied he tried drinking and chasing women before realizing his only real high comes from playing football. When he can’t get that high after training all week and being left out of the team he goes into a nihilistic downward spiral questioning his purpose in life.

Seems he is a sensitive soul. At this point though we are stuck with him and him with us so it does neither party any good if there’s tension and a breakdown in relationship. Dyche needs that bite his tongue give him a hug and get him playing again. He’s no superstar but beggars can’t be choosers. As a manager sometimes you have to swallow your pride and Polish a turd for the good of the company. Further down the line you can settle scores when times are better.

Steven Sturm
132 Posted 04/09/2023 at 01:25:40
Sean 126. Please go ahead and do that.

I for one am optimistic again. Beto and Danjuma are going to produce goals. Integrate Gray back into the team. No idea what the issue is there but fix it. Creative player is what we need because I don't see many clean sheets in the near future.

Mike Gaynes
133 Posted 04/09/2023 at 01:36:32
Kieran and others, man-management is certainly a key part of Dyche's portfolio, but under these circumstances there's only so much coddling he can do for a sensitive player.

I'd say that if Gray wants to play more, he's the one who needs to get to work on repairing the relationship.

Ernie Baywood
134 Posted 04/09/2023 at 01:45:59
Think what you like about Gray, but he's got talent, he's got experience at Premier League level, he can score a goal, and he's been frozen out since the day Dyche arrived.

And we're naming 5 outfield players on the bench and dealing with social media discontent.

It's not a glowing endorsement of the manager.

Darryl Ritchie
135 Posted 04/09/2023 at 03:18:31

Dyche might be able to stomach Gray, but, can Gray find whatever it takes for a professional athlete to put in a effort for a manager that he has no respect for???

He shouldn't be here!

Major transfer window fail!

Ernie Baywood
136 Posted 04/09/2023 at 04:02:33
Darryl, Dyche came in and immediately benched Gray, who at that time was the only fit player we had who looked capable of scoring. I'm not sure you can really be too critical of Gray's attitude when the treatment he received was so automatic. He's said nothing for 8 months.

So where are we now?

We've just drawn against Sheffield Utd in a game that could have done with a late attacking change for someone with a bit of pace. But of course we had no-one on the bench who could possibly do that.

We've failed to register a goal in our other 3 league games.

We can't fill the bench.

I don't see how Dyche can be defended on this. It's an absolute mess.

Darryl Ritchie
137 Posted 04/09/2023 at 04:10:36
Ernie, He shouldn’t be here anymore. Simple.
Steve Brown
138 Posted 04/09/2023 at 05:48:06
It's better to have Demarai Gray on the bench then 2 keepers.

This is a weak squad, so the manager should be pragmatic despite Gray's petulant instagram post.

Jim Bennings
139 Posted 04/09/2023 at 06:08:55
Just chipping in on this Demarai Gray debate.

Yes, he's got talent and I honestly don't mind watching Gray now and then, there are worse players in our team, but is everyone actually aware he only scored 2 goals from open play last season?

Nottingham Forest at home and the cracker at Man City were his only 2 goals that weren't penalties.

So, for all the talent, this is exactly why he's never nailed down a club so far in his career.

And another prime example of Everton fans these days being too happy with mediocrity.

We've heard cries over Iwobi departing and now over a big money offer for Gray going up in smoke but these two combined got less than 7 goals in the Premier League between them last term and both played in most games that almost resulted in relegation.

I don't think many other clubs’ fans that were actually ambitious would be losing their shit over such a situation.

Paul Ferry
140 Posted 04/09/2023 at 06:16:36
Steve Brown 141.

It's better to have Demarai Gray on the bench then 2 keepers.

I think that sums it up quite nicely. I dare anyone to say "no Steve, you're wrong" and back this up with a credible reason.

Danny O’Neill
141 Posted 04/09/2023 at 06:41:55
Someone mentioned it earlier. Apparently he made a similar statement when at Leicester.

It's not like we haven't seen players do this in the past. Whatever happens, he strikes me as a player who just needs to concentrate on his football, because he could be decent.

Personally I'd be happy if he stayed. Let's see what happens as the Saudi window is still open as I understand.

Dominic Calvert-Lewin (once fit), Danjuma, Beto, Chermiti, Harrison and Gray (if he stays), plus McNeil.

A lot more attacking options in comparison to pumping long balls to poor Maupay last season.

I say ‘poor’ as I felt for him.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
142 Posted 04/09/2023 at 06:42:56
This - we should not have 2 keepers on the bench debate does my head in.

We can have 9 on the bench. We can only use 5 subs.

Keeper gives away a pen and sent off = sub a player with a keeper.

Keeper no 2 gets concussed = either a outfield player goes in goal and we bring on one of the 4 of 8 subs on the bench … or we put the second keeper in goal and we still have 7 subs when we can only bring on 3 anyway.

It is quite sensible to have 2 keepers.

What is not sensible is to not have 9 subs. We have a squad of 28 players and 21 in the U21s squad. Put one of them on the bench. Maybe no intention of them playing but gives them the feel of being around the 1st XI and if we are winning 3-0 (or even losing 3-0) as the board goes up, then put them on for the experience of taking part.

Gary Russell
143 Posted 04/09/2023 at 07:26:39
A quick Google search of 'Demarai Gray Leicester comments' brings up articles on his mental health. The high pressure world of professional sports requires a strong mentality, which it seems, he struggles with.

A select few know what goes on at the club, so laying into manager or the player is conjecture. I have never once seen Iwobi and Gray put their body on the line in any game. For me, that should be a given and it is a vital aspect of footy.

If ya can't hack it and don't have the profile and attributes a manager wants, then there's probably only going to be one outcome.

On another topic, Onana needs a firecracker up his arse. For such a big unit and a player who seems to believe he is something, he needs some intensity to his game.

Watching the MotD highlights from Saturday, you can see him just jogging back with no desire or urgency to close down players in dangerous situations. This happened in a few of their chances and for one of the goals we conceded.

Guilty of the same in numerous other games. Gueye gets so much stick on here, but the big man needs some of the wee man's attitude.

Eddie Dunn
144 Posted 04/09/2023 at 07:35:32
You only have to look at Gray's history to see that he has problems maintaining his focus. Dyche is the boss and he must be unhappy with Gray's attitude.

Gray can look good on a fast counter attack and he has his signature cut in from the left onto his right foot and curl it into the top bin.

Other than that, never dribbles and rarely beats his man. His tracking back ain't great.

Iwobi goes for £20 plus and Gray is seen as bargain basement material. So that is how the football world view the lad.

Ernie Baywood
145 Posted 04/09/2023 at 07:49:44
Jim, that's a bit unfair. Up to Dyche being appointed, he was our top scorer in a team that couldn't score goals.

By my quick reckoning he had 4 goals from open play and one penalty at that point. Granted 2 of those goals were in the league cup.

But the point stands... who else was scoring? If he'd carried on playing he would have finished our top scorer.

But he's not even worth filling an empty seat on the bench?

We're not better off for this.

Jim Bennings
146 Posted 04/09/2023 at 08:19:37

I think Gray has proven a good-value signing for the money we got him for, that's why if someone is offering £15 million for him, we need to take that.

Last season, he scored 4 league goals, 2 penalties and 2 open play, and against Fleetwood and Bournemouth in the Carabao Cup.

He's an inconsistent talent who can have one great game and then go missing for about 10 others on the spin, particularly at Goodison where teams shut us down.

I like his style when – and it's a big ’when’ – he's on form but, much like Iwobi, he's never going to be good enough to elevate this mess we are in.

None of our players, Beto (obvious reasons he's just arrived) and Pickford excepted, are really top-drawer material.

Geoff Trenner
147 Posted 04/09/2023 at 08:36:30
Alan @ 148. We’ll said! My late father, a Pole, was held, like hundreds of thousands of other Poles, in a Siberian agricultural work camp at Uncle Joe’s pleasure for over a year before escaping and making his way, aged 15, all the way to Persia.
My grandfather was a high ranking police officer and was shot by the Russian’s at Katyn.
To suggest that Stalin had to put up with Churchill’s antagonism to Poland is frankly laughable!
Benjamin Dyke
148 Posted 04/09/2023 at 08:41:27
Dyche: "We need wide players who work their socks off on the defensive side like McNeil"
Gray: "I'll do my best"
Dyche: "That's not good enough son"
Gray: "I'm going on social media with this disrespect!"
Or something like that
Steve Hartwell
149 Posted 04/09/2023 at 08:47:27
Let's hope the relationship between player and club isn't broken beyond repair or his heart won't be in it and that's a lose lose for all involved. I like him but right now I think best for all if he was to go
Andrew Ellams
150 Posted 04/09/2023 at 09:04:07
I saw a post somewhere from a Leicester fans page where somebody compared comments made by Gray when he left them. He he made a very similar comment about not getting the respect that he deserves then too.
Danny Baily
151 Posted 04/09/2023 at 09:15:41
I'd have Gray well away from the first team from now on. We need everyone pulling together.
Tony Waring
152 Posted 04/09/2023 at 09:21:21
Dyche would'nt recognise a footballer if he fell over in front of him. Gray may not be a world beater but at least he tries to play football. Dyche should play him and inject a bit more skill into his team.
Dan Nulty
153 Posted 04/09/2023 at 09:37:21
Yes Tony, we need players who play well once every 6 or 7 games.
Ernie Baywood
154 Posted 04/09/2023 at 09:42:24
Jim, he can be top drawer occasionally, however fleeting those occasions may be.

Mind you, he doesn't need to be top drawer. Any drawer would be better than nothing and we are quite literally preferring to leave empty seats at the moment.

I don't see how it can be defended. He'll obviously go. Just as Digne and James obviously had to go... but the team gets weaker with these kinds of decisions.

Surely there's a competent coach out there somewhere? We just seem to find oddballs who can't make a simple logic based decision for the better of the team that they are 'managing'.

Gray has been at the club for over two years now. I'll practically guarantee that's longer than Dyche will be here. And I'd be willing to bet that Dyche won't even see a calendar year out.

But we'll pay Gray's wages for a year while he's in the cold. Then we'll negotiate a sale price for him when it's clear he has to go. And we'll spin the story so people think we did well on the sale.

It's not the first time. It's incredibly amateurish stuff.

Ernie Baywood
155 Posted 04/09/2023 at 09:45:18
Dan, is someone who can do something not better than an empty seat?

You've seen him do things. And you've seen us make no changes when the attack is exhausted and ineffective.

Surely these dots aren't that hard to draw between.

Jimmy Carr
156 Posted 04/09/2023 at 10:04:48
Fifty Shades of Demari Gray.
Probably the last we've seen of him unless someone decides to be pragmatic.
Let's face it, a player falling out with a manager is not unusual.
Ask Jadon Sancho.
Steve Brown
157 Posted 04/09/2023 at 10:22:42
Phil @ 145.

- The only PL clubs over the weekend to field less than 9 subs were Everton (7) and Sheff Utd) (8).
- The only PL club to pick 2 keepers was Everton.

We are either being practical and innovative as you suggest. Or alternatively, Dyche would have had to select 5 outfield players, 2 keepers and 2 cardboard cut outs last Saturday if he wanted 9 subs on the bench

Dan Nulty
158 Posted 04/09/2023 at 10:26:33
Ernie, useful player to have on the bench but he doesn't want to be that player and my intuition is that that is causing his upset.

I urge you to read up on Gray's history, particularly at Leicester. He isn't happy with being on the bench. He believes he should be playing regularly in the Premier league and only recently gave up on playing for England. I admire his self belief but clearly his opinion of how good he is outweighs his ability and it affects his mental health sadly as he cant cope with being told he isn't going to be a regular starter.

He was given an amazing l, regular starting position opportunity with us and showed flashes all too irregularly proving, to me anyway, that he isn't good enough to be a regular starter in the Premier league. Leverkusen just wanted their money back and we only have to look at most of the signings from the bundesliga to see that the standard there is lower than here. That should tell you what they thought of him.

A few on here are complaining that he should be kept to be on the bench, he clearly doesn't want that I am afraid, better to let him go and if the Saudis are willing to pay 12m then all the better for someone who doesn't want to help us from the bench.

If it happens at every club, at what point will he start to realise he is the problem?

Mark Ryan
159 Posted 04/09/2023 at 11:06:26
Can we swap Jadon and Demarai ? Keep em both happy, well maybe one of them ?
Kevin Edward
160 Posted 04/09/2023 at 11:08:20
I’d be happy to be proved wrong by Gray with a performance on the pitch.
But if we are going to move on we need to stop recruiting moaning Minnie’s.
Yes he is a modern footballer, but he’s had so many chances to show us that he should be a first choice selection.
Ok slightly better than dead wood, but not a massive loss in my mind.
If he doesn’t want to stay then move him on quickly, he’s only worth as much as another club is willing to pay.
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
161 Posted 04/09/2023 at 11:16:49
Steve - I agree - but setting aside the 2 goalie argument who is he going to name as the 7?

McNeill, Godfrey, Cherimiti, Mykolenko, Onyango were on the bench and
Harrison, Alli, Gomes, Keane, Coleman, Dobbin all injured and Gray elsewhere.

But there are loads of kids in the U21s - and I just don't know them to know which would benefit. Can it be that difficult to say to Sean McAllister, hey you are on the bench Saturday and pay an extra room in the hotel. Same for Charlie Whitaker. Yes, if we needed a third midfielder then Mykolenko rather then either of them but they would be so much more enthused to push on.

Pete Neilson
162 Posted 04/09/2023 at 11:28:10
The club should open a lottery for two supporters on the bench. At least it’d add some entertainment.
Geoff Lambert
163 Posted 04/09/2023 at 11:40:34
Phil #166,

The Everton website does not mention Gomes, Keane, or Dobbin as injured.

Tom Bowers
164 Posted 04/09/2023 at 11:55:49
Hard to believe all the different stories coming out of the club and some players these days.

Why do ''professionals'' persist in airing their grievances on social media. All rather childish in my book.

Sure Gray was popular but inconsistent and that won't change but Dyche wants players to play his way and he is the gaffer after all.

If Gray still wants a move in January, then he has to buckle down and fight for a place instead of sulking.

Dyche has a way of doing things and if it doesn't work this season then he knows he will be out soon enough.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
165 Posted 04/09/2023 at 11:55:53
Sean Dyche admitted that Lewis Dobbin and Michael Keane missed Everton's 2-2 draw against Sheffield United with knocks.

Sadly, the SM team is also not adhering to NSNO.

Tony Abrahams
166 Posted 04/09/2023 at 12:11:05
And I don't think the club would suddenly become any less professional if this actually happened, Pete @167.

I'm surprised Gray is still here but then I remember reading what Dyche said on the morning of the final day of the transfer window and it suddenly makes sense. The only reason Gray has suddenly opened up must be because whatever bid has been made has been rejected but I'm certain he will be sold this week.

It's horrible getting home from your holidays because Everton suddenly become a lot more important once again and there is very little positivity around the club right now.

Karen Mason
167 Posted 04/09/2023 at 12:43:25
I did think, when Dyche came in, that Demarai Gray wouldn't be his type of player. No doubt he has talent and speed and was one of the few in our team that could actually produce a finish on occasions.

But, as we all know, Dyche likes his players to work back and put a tackle in. Even the forwards. This is not Demari's strong point. His efforts to work back have always been minimal and I have watched him 'chicken out' of 50/50 balls on many occasions.

So he doesn't appear to fit Dyche's 'suitable player' tag. I like him because he can produce moments of magic, but does need to be more consistent. Having said that, the service he has received as a forward since arriving at our club has been less than average, so what's the boy to do???

Bob Parrington
168 Posted 04/09/2023 at 12:44:51
For fuck's sake, I hope we keep him. If Dyche can understand Dominic Calvert-Lewin and Dele Alli, then surely he can understand Gray.

Get off your high horse, Sean Dyche, and “understand “ your players. Use them to the team's benefit!

Brian Williams
169 Posted 04/09/2023 at 12:53:16
Or he "might" just not be fit enough and "might" not be making enough effort to be fit enough?

You can't apportion blame when you're only guessing at the facts.

Stu Gore
170 Posted 04/09/2023 at 13:29:20
If the offer is real then take the money on the table. End of.
Paul Washington
171 Posted 04/09/2023 at 13:39:11
As we are short of players, shouldn't the manager be the better man and get Gray back in the fold?

Re his problems, everybody was supporting Dele Ali not so long ago.

Demara Gray can be a useful player, he has a knack of putting good balls into the 6-yard box but we never profit from them.

Ian Bennett
172 Posted 04/09/2023 at 13:47:21
Danjuma, Harrison, Doucoure, Alli, Gomes, Lonergan, Alli, Coleman, Young out of contract end of the season.

How many here next season?

Si Cooper
173 Posted 04/09/2023 at 14:05:07
‘This is everyday stuff in the workplace.' – Not in 99.999% of workplaces it isn't!

How many of us have to prove ourselves Monday to Friday to get picked for a competitive confrontation with a rival site at the weekend, with your performance in the weekend ‘presentation' being key to doubling your income through endorsements and selection for the representative team in international competition???

Here's a simple scenario: Dyche is told he needs to come up with three lists from his existing squad for the fast approaching transfer window; must keep, prefer to sell, business needs will determine their fate.

Demarai Gray was obviously on the ‘happy to see back of' list for reasons we will probably never really know (and don't really need to). Dyche, being bluff rather than fluffy, hasn't been two-faced about that decision, which is his prerogative.

Gray understandably doesn't feel wanted, because he isn't.
There is no real blame, it is just a really awkward situation because the move the player would have been satisfied with hasn't materialised. Hopefully it will get resolved in a way that keeps everyone involved happy some time soon.

I like the player's creativity but he doesn't always deliver and has a tendency to ignore others when he decides he can find a shooting opportunity for himself.

He can go cheaply if a sell-on clause is included because I suspect he won't settle in Saudi Arabia.

Dale Self
174 Posted 04/09/2023 at 14:24:45
Ernie 159, “ I'll practically guarantee that's longer than Dyche will be here.”

Will you now? I will tell you this: I would certainly accept the old ‘it's him or me' ultimatum right about now.

And respectfully to Steve 141 and Paul 143, and staying to form, No Steve you are wrong and the credible reason is you don't put a distraction on the bench, it rewards the unacceptable behavior. At least have your agent do the complaining. Or maybe Demarai should use Ian S's approach.

Chris James
175 Posted 04/09/2023 at 14:30:57
I'm sure it's six of one and half a dozen of another in the battle of words but, at the end of the day, Dyche is the gaffer right now so it's his way or the highway – has to be that way.

It's not any different at most clubs. No player can be bigger than the manager – even stars like Cancelo, Pogba, Ronaldo get shipped out when they outgrow their boots.

Clearly Dyche didn't fancy Gray, he's not his sort of player, whatever. Had we got Gnonto or Sulemana, then Gray is off for £10-12M; we didn't, so we do need the cover with Iwobi gone too.

For all concerned, it's time to put the 'professional' back into professional football and make the best of it. Same for Dyche. Workmates don't have to like each other…

Mike Doyle
176 Posted 04/09/2023 at 15:03:16
It's Gordon Lee & Duncan McKenzie all over again (but with social media platforms to keep us all informed).
Minik Hansen
177 Posted 04/09/2023 at 15:12:16
Dyche, for Christ's sake, don't be afraid to be a bit humane. In other words, get a little soft and work it out if that's what it takes for Gray to hit the ground running like he did for Jamaica.

The world won't end with a little friendly chatter, maybe that's all it takes… who knows?

Nick Page
178 Posted 04/09/2023 at 15:26:12
Fecking sort it out, Sean Dyche. We don't have the luxury of playing silly beggars here.
Raymond Fox
179 Posted 04/09/2023 at 15:39:39
What Dyche wants goes, he can't please every player all of the time.

I don't know why we are still discussing Gray, he's not first choice so tough. I like him as a player but it seems he's spit his dummy out.

Tony 157, what's wrong with the football we are playing?
Dyche knows a player when he sees one all right, but there's a small matter of affording them.

Bernard Dooley
180 Posted 04/09/2023 at 15:43:07
Interesting that Gray aired his view of Dyche when he won't be at Finch Farm for the next two weeks whilst away on international duty with Jamaica.
They play two matches during the period, the last one four days prior the match with Arsenal.
Wonder how fit he will be?
Paul Ferry
181 Posted 04/09/2023 at 15:51:07
Sorry, I know that this is not related to this thread - another sorry if this has already been noted down, I not long woke up!

Did anyone see the BBC online story about Keane's Emirates troubles yesterday and good samaritan Micah Richards (anyone else not like his 100% contrived fake laugh?) and notice that the photograph of the two is not from yesterday but from the Old Lady?

Now I'm not one of those conspiracy theorists but they just had to pick us, didn't they! I mean someone who didn't think this thing through might even think it was one of us who did this at our ground.

Paul Ferry
182 Posted 04/09/2023 at 15:51:46
Jay Harris
183 Posted 04/09/2023 at 16:04:56
Until Danjuma and Beto arrived, Gray was one of the few players who knew where the net was.

He has quality and is usually fit and available yet Maupay kept getting a game while Gray didn't. Now that would piss any player off.

Dyche is the manager and it is his job to manage all the different personalities.

Now that Iwobi and Davies have gone, we need Gray as a part of a very thin squad.

Sit down with the lad, Sean, and get him motivated. We still have the option of a 1-year extension at the end of his contract and he is as cheap as chips.

Kieran Kinsella
184 Posted 04/09/2023 at 16:05:35

Gray could and should apologize but as the manager Dyche is the de facto adult in the room. At some point between now and January, we will need Gray due to lack of alternatives

Steve Brown
185 Posted 04/09/2023 at 16:25:24
Everton have apparently turned down a £7.5 million bid, so Gray will definitely be reintegrated into the squad.
Dave Abrahams
186 Posted 04/09/2023 at 16:39:12
Steve (193),

The Foreign clubs have another seven days or so to sign him so, if they really want him, they will come back with a bigger offer; if they don't, he stays ‘til January at least.

The squad is desperately weak and short of players; I'd prefer Gray to stay, he will be needed at some stage. Gray and Dyche are grown men they will have to grin and bear it if they don't get on – the team is all that matters at the moment.

Mick Davies
187 Posted 04/09/2023 at 16:51:34
Dave, the Saudi's have announced their window will close on Thursday. How do they manage to dictate when their window ends I wonder?
Dave Abrahams
188 Posted 04/09/2023 at 17:04:03
Mick (196)

Who do Saudis come under, Uefa, Fifa?

Surely they must belong to some Governing body and conform to their rules; otherwise, they are using their own rules illegally.

Rob Halligan
189 Posted 04/09/2023 at 17:28:50
Dave # 197…….like every country in the world, Saudi Arabia are affiliated with FIFA, but their UEFA equivalent is the Asian Football Confederation.

Here's an explanation as to why their transfer window shuts after ours………

When does the Saudi Pro League transfer window close?

Paul Tran
190 Posted 04/09/2023 at 18:04:07
That was very much a deliberate act, Dave.
Dave Abrahams
191 Posted 04/09/2023 at 18:05:37
Rob (190), thanks for that.

I lost my mate early this morning, Gerry, he often mentioned how well he was looked after by you and your colleagues when you transported him to and from the hospital centre a few years ago. He always looked forward to those few hours he spent there, thanks for those days Rob.

Danny O’Neill
192 Posted 04/09/2023 at 18:18:31
Sorry for your loss Dave.
Rob Halligan
193 Posted 04/09/2023 at 18:36:30
So sorry to hear that Dave. Yes, I remember him. Did he live somewhere in, or near west Derby?
Dave Abrahams
194 Posted 04/09/2023 at 18:51:42
Thanks, Danny, God what scenes you've seen and fought in, yet you always sound happy and looked happy when I met you outside The Harlech.

My mate would have liked you, he did his delayed National Service in Germany because he was finishing his apprenticeship as a plumber. Thank God he never had to fight in the wars that you did.

Rob, Yes, Gerry lived around the back of West Derby village, he was a very good centre-forward with quite a few decent amateur teams, The NUR, Harroby and a few sides over the water and for a couple teams in the Welsh League. He was a Liverpudlian but his interest was always in Aamateur football playing and then following The Seymour in the Sunday league. Most of all. he was a good, genuine, generous man.

Robert Tressell
195 Posted 04/09/2023 at 19:33:15
I'm not sure why this is a particularly big story. Like Townsend, he was important when we signed him because we had no-one of any pace / talent in wide positions. Now we do.

We have Danjuma, Harrison, McNeil and Dobbin. Gray is an okay player but very replaceable.

Dale Self
196 Posted 04/09/2023 at 19:40:45
Gray has not hit the ground running for Jamaica except maybe in the most literal sense. I've seen several of those matches and I think it's Decordova-Reid or something like that who shows him up. Jamaica does not face difficult opponents and yet he fails to impose himself.

Nice to see so many TWers change up on their impressions of tactics like Jooroobachardo and disaffected Primadonna pretenders. He isn't James you know.

And of course, my condolences to you Dave.

Neil Copeland
197 Posted 04/09/2023 at 20:00:48
Dave, sorry to hear about your mate Gerry. It sounds like he was a proper gent and good friend.

Chin up mate!

Jay Harris
201 Posted 04/09/2023 at 20:20:06
So sorry to hear about your mate, Dave. When we were younger it was all about weddings and christenings as we get older its more about people passing. Very sad.

Did anyone notice Jesse Lingard is available on a free. Nah sooner have Demarai Gray.

Robert Tressell
202 Posted 04/09/2023 at 20:28:07
Dave, only just caught up with your comments on the thread. Condolences to you. Very sad to lose a good friend like that. All the best.
Mike Gaynes
203 Posted 04/09/2023 at 21:08:46
Dave, deepest condolences. Hope you take comfort in the memories you built with Gerry.
Brent Stephens
204 Posted 04/09/2023 at 21:32:37
Thinking of you, Dave.
Paul Birmingham
205 Posted 04/09/2023 at 22:59:10
Deepest sympathies, Dave, at this sad time.

Christine Foster
206 Posted 04/09/2023 at 23:29:51
Dave, sorry to hear about your mate, its hard to lose friends as we get older, definitely raise a glass in memory.
Paul Ferry
207 Posted 05/09/2023 at 03:45:47
Dave, I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope your memories are a consolation for you right now (they will be in the time to come), as well as your faith, family, and friends. RIP Gerry.
Steve Brown
208 Posted 05/09/2023 at 06:53:21
Dave, sorry to hear that your good mate Gerry has passed away.
Jerome Shields
209 Posted 05/09/2023 at 07:11:35
Dave deepest sympathies.

It is being assumed that Gray's vitriol is being targeted at Dyche. Dyche just happens to be his immediate boss and the bearer of news. In this situation, there has been wider involvement of others in the club in this saga and botched attempt to sell Gray.

Danny O’Neill
210 Posted 05/09/2023 at 07:25:11
Glad to hear I've still got a sparkle in the ageing eyes Dave.

I've experienced enough in life to know that:

Enjoy family

Enjoy life

Enjoy football

Try to enjoy Everton. I do!

Peter Mills
211 Posted 05/09/2023 at 07:26:00
Sincere condolences on your loss, Dave. I’m sure you will have great memories of your pal, Gerry - may he rest in peace.
Steve Shave
212 Posted 05/09/2023 at 08:12:37
Time for Gray to move on I think, I agree with those above who feel he won't be a huge loss. I am ambivalent on it to be honest, flashes of brilliance, lots of running down blind alleys.

I wish him well but I do want the club to receive what he is worth, especially from Saudi Arabia, £12M please to go in the coffers for January. Hopefully we have new Lowndes then too.

Lot's of talk of Dyche not working out, it's a little premature I feel after the brilliant job he did last year. Let's give him a chance with strikers at his disposal, McNeil getting fit and Harrison coming in. Brainthwaite is going to tear up trees this year, I called that two years ago.

If we are to look at new managers down the line we should at least be studying the Ipswich Town manager, hottest managerial prospect to come out of England for many years. I think he would be excellent.

Tony Abrahams
213 Posted 05/09/2023 at 08:23:55
The reason Dyche isn’t working out for many is because a lot of people didn’t want him in the first place, imo Steve. I might be wrong maybe most people did want him, but have now changed their minds over our disgraceful recruitment program, even though this has now become normality for Everton Football Club.

Fail to prepare - should become our new club motto - I wonder how it sounds in Latin?

Danny O’Neill
214 Posted 05/09/2023 at 08:47:19
I might be putting myself in the firing line here.

I was never a fan of Dyche. That's just footballing principles.


His (our) Everton side played some decent stuff last season. And despite the results (Villa aside), they performed well so far. The results will come. We have the players.

In my humble opinion, he and Thelwell have done a great job of protecting the team from Billy Smart's Circus going on around them. We know where the problem is.

From what I read and see, they are focussed on the pitch, where it matters.

Beat Arsenal, Brentford and Luton, and get one step closer to Wembley and we'll all be in a better place.

Cue conversation with my son and brother.

I can see them looking at me now.

But I will be up on the 17th for those who are around. And Brentford.

Dave Abrahams
215 Posted 05/09/2023 at 09:44:47
Thank you to everyone who offered their condolences for my friends passing.

Just a little story about him and then I’ll leave it, he was a man who didn’t like a lot of fuss made about him, however: Gerry was a Liverpudlian, his wife Kathleen was a Blue and she was an Everton shareholder, when she passed away Gerry inherited it and always gave me his right to go to Everton’s AGM as a proxy vote which I was happy to use, just one of the many, many happy memories he left me with.

Brian Harrison
216 Posted 05/09/2023 at 09:45:23
Seeing a couple of posters have mentioned the job that Dyche has done and is doing. I have mixed views as to whether we have improved or not, and Lampard and Benitez set such low bars its hard to say whether we are any better than under our 2 previous managers. Dyche like Lampard guaranteed our Premier league position in the last home game of the season. Lampard wanted to play out from the back were Dyche wanted a different approach, I think if you have the players you can play any system unfortunately its decades since we had players good enough to play any system.
I know we should have won both home games and probably should have picked up all 3 points at Sheffield. But just like Lampard did, Dyche didnt get the striker that we have all screamed for until the window was about to close, the difference is that Beto looks like the real deal and Maupay was never going to be effective playing as a lone striker. So Dyche has to be given time to integrate the new players into his team, and we all know that it takes time to do that. Dyche has said he wants to change the mind set of the players again something thats going to take a while, and judging the way we sat back after opening the scoring at Sheffield there is still a lot of work to do.

Dyche said he understood the financial constraints before he signed so he knew he and Thelwell didn't have much money to spend, and in this window he has also had to sell to help balance the books which isn't helpful. But football is a results business and after spent the last 2 seasons avoiding relegation by the skin of our teeth, then if results don't improve quickly he will be under enormous pressure. I do think when everyone is fit we have better attacking options than last season, with Beto, Danjuma and Harrison added to our attacking options. I will be interested to see how Dyche sets us up with these attacking options, what he wont be able to do is have 3 holding midfield players.
So yes he will need time, but we have to see an improvement in league position by Christmas otherwise the merry go round will start again. I know many say you cant keep changing managers and they are right but what happens if the ones you hire fail badly.

Jack Convery
217 Posted 05/09/2023 at 09:58:00
Dave, condolences for your sad loss. He sounds like a really nice bloke. RIP.

Paul Ferry, fully agree re: Micha Richards.

Phill Thompson
218 Posted 05/09/2023 at 10:03:52
Dave, just catching up, condolences on your loss, it’s hard to lose a close mate and he sounds like a top bloke. May he rest in peace.
Barry Hesketh
219 Posted 05/09/2023 at 10:24:01
Brian @216
I agree with you, Dyche does need a little bit more time, but I would say, if we have less than a point per game by the time we face Spurs around Christmas time, we might have to reconsider his position.

Hopefully, we'll be in a healthier position by the time that trip to Spurs comes around, and we may be well on the way to safety by then. How are we even discussing safety after just four games, it's ridiculous, but unfortunately that's where we are as a club.

Jerome Shields
220 Posted 05/09/2023 at 10:30:32
Danny I agree that Dyche has improved Everton play.But it has been the case under different managers some players exhibit consistent flaws in their play and other players seemily coached to improve their play, forget what they were taught. This all leads to inconsistency.

This could be for two reasons either the coaching system is inconsistent consisting by management by drives, rather than a overall program or the opposition successfully implement tactics to counter improvements. In the former the Finch Farm regime could be part of the problem and in the latter error prone players don't help.

During the International break it would be expected that hard work would help. But this has never been the case a Everton.The concern is that Grays outburst for whatever reason my aid any grievances , not helped by a lackist work environment

Everton defensively need alot of work.The same problems are evident match after match, with the same flaws causing similar goals.The only difference in the last match was a effective attacking threat, that actually scored goals Without that threat Everton would have lost that game by aleast two goals.

Dyche needs to be able to lead and have players on board, which has always been difficult at Everton.Dyche has to work with a failed regime at Everton and is remitted to do so since he started.

Dyche with Thewell help has improved the forward options, but he needs depth, and Gray being the most capable.Calvert Lewin seems destined to be a jury out player,But the defence needs to improve.

I the first week of Sept there is hope. I don't subscribe to Dyche the problem, him being the only capable Manager available or referees decision theories, having the view that you can't beat the referee. The players seem to be advised right in their reactions.–

Brian Harrison
221 Posted 05/09/2023 at 10:41:21
Whether its true or not I don't know, but some are saying that we have actually only spent £3 million on our incoming transfers and that was the money paid for Danjuma,s loan fee. The fees for the other players have been deferred to next year, so if its true and our player sales were to fund the day to day running of the club, then how do we integrate Dele back in the team as that will trigger another £10 million to Spurs.
Barry Hesketh
222 Posted 05/09/2023 at 11:31:53
Brian @221

There's every reason to believe it to be true, Everton's cash-flow is the issue, the proposal of MSP to put in the £50m loan would have eased things and perhaps resulted in a couple more players joining us. I don't know what happens to the 'signings' if we haven't got the dosh next year, though.

Mark Taylor
223 Posted 05/09/2023 at 11:52:59
It is being reported that our net spend is a minus, around £25bn. This is consistent with my own expectation, that this window would be about raising funds to deal with our shocking cash position, not seeing it go out of the club. It is also likely that to achieve this, we are deferring substantial payments for the likes of Beto. In other words, we have created a future liability.

The extent to which this will cause us problems in a year or so would perhaps require Paul the Esk's expertise. On the upside, there are some big earners coming off the wage bill, either this season or from the beginning of next. It's not impossible we may need to generate more transfer income from sales. The stadium delay won't help matters on revenue.

Either way, I suggest that the person responsible for cashflow projections will be working overtime right now. My perception is the net gain from this window will provide enough leeway to carry on funding the stadium, though our extortionate interest payments are a problem. But I sense that is going to run out of funding by Xmas, give or take. So we may also be trading in the January window. Moshiri desperately needs a cash injection or a sale. This is now much less about P&S, much more about staving off bankruptcy.

Brian Williams
224 Posted 05/09/2023 at 12:22:37
£25m surely? 👀
Rob Halligan
225 Posted 05/09/2023 at 12:39:35
Mark # 223………what have we bought, Man Utd five times over! 😁😁😁
Mark Taylor
226 Posted 05/09/2023 at 13:07:45

You're right- in my dreams

Actually I've not seen a breakdown of that I fully understand but that net figure is repeated several times, with slight differences.

One has our incoming spend at £25m. I assume that is Chermiti and Danjuma's loan fee but no idea if it includes anything for Beto, certainly not all of it.

I suppose what is most surprising if that the figures and my assessment are even close to correct, and that only the short term matters right now, to the point of survival, the Chermiti buy seems an odd one. Makes me wonder if the plan is to turnover either him or Beto very quickly. But a risky plan under the circumstances.

Brian Harrison
227 Posted 05/09/2023 at 13:08:52
Seems with our owner in Monaco and our chairman in his office in London with neither wanting to talk to their customers, we the fans.
I would imagine that we may be very near the disaster that Hicks and Gillette inflicted on our neighbours. We are having to sell players to help finance the day to day running of the club, also I guess Sean Dyche is safe in the knowledge that even if things go really badly on the pitch that we cant afford to sack him and his coaches. We cant afford to play Dele even if he gets fully fit as we cant afford the £10 million to pay Spurs. Obviously he doesnt fancy Gomes and it seems Lille werent interested in taking him on loan so another wage that we really cant afford for a player who probably wont play for the club again. Thelwell is saying we are exploring the players who are out of contract, but knowing that first they will want a signing on fee which we don't have and presumably wont defer their salaries till next year.
What a complete shambles of a club we have become.
Tony Everan
228 Posted 05/09/2023 at 13:23:47
The only fee Everton spent this summer, was the £3M loan fee on Arnaut Danjuma go Villarreal. Payments for Beto and Youssef Chermiti are not due until the next fiscal year. Everton generated £45M from sales this summer.
Julian Wait
229 Posted 05/09/2023 at 14:58:52
My expectation is that if we get a high enough offer he will be gone. He wants to go. He is trying to force it. The Saudi's know that. Everton know that. 15m and he is gone.
Jerome Shields
233 Posted 05/09/2023 at 15:06:02
I suspect that some of the players that Everton were in for though threated seriously, told on a different perspective when negotiation of terms were being discussed.

I suppose if you are in financial diffs it is best to conduct business that way. The media is full of queries on Everton's Financial position. Too much was leaked by the Club on progress. Bill could not help himself.

Peter Moore
234 Posted 05/09/2023 at 18:13:58
Very interesting 13 min interview with Dyche released just now. Demarai Gray informed the club deal is agreed for him to leave (I guess his personal terms), yet no deal with club agreed.
Sheds a different light than the players 'cheap shot' insta post.
I hope they cash in on him for as much as possible and try for a committed player in January instead.
Jack Convery
235 Posted 05/09/2023 at 18:26:06
Plus a table of how these teams are doing against each other in our mini league of down and outs at the bottom of the Premier League.

Luton Town 0pts

Away v Brighton Lost 4 - 1
Away v Chelsea Lost 3 - 0
Home v WHU Lost 1 - 2

Bournemouth 2 pts

Home v WHU Drew 1 - 1
Away v Lfc Lost 3 - 1
Home v Spurs Lost 3 - 0
Away v Brentford Drew 2 - 2

Fulham 4 pts

Away v EFC Won 0 - 1
Home v Brentford Lost 0 - 3
Away v Arsenal Drew 2 v 2
Away v City Lost 5 - 1

Crystal Palace 7 pts

Away v Sheff Utd Won 1 - 0
Home v Arsenal Lost 0 - 1
Away v Brentford Drew 1 v 1
Home v Wolves Won 3 - 2

Wolves 3 pts

Away v Man U Lost 1 - 0
Home v Brighton Lost 1 - 4
Away V EFC Won 0 - 1
Away v Palace Lost 3 - 2

Forest 6 pts

Away v Arsenal Lost 2 - 1
Home v Sheff Utd Won 2 - 1
Away v Man U Lost 3 - 2
Away v Chelsea Won 0 - 1

Burnley 0 pts

Away v Lpool Lost 3 - 1
Home v City Lost 0 - 3
Home v Villa Lost 1 - 3
Home v Spurs Lost 2 - 5

Sheff Utd 1 pt

Home v Palace Lost 0 - 1
Away v Forest Lost 2 - 1
Home v Man City Lost 1 - 2
Home V EFC Drew 2 - 2.

Palace PL 2 W 2 D 0 L 0 = 6
Forest PL 1 W 1 D 0 L 0 = 3
Fulham PL 1 W 1 D 0 L 0 = 3
Wolves PL 2 W 1 D 0 L 1 = 3
EFC PL 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 = 1
Sheff U PL 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 = 1
Burnley PL 0 W 0 D 0 L 0 = 0
B'mouth PL 0 W 0 D 0 L 0 = 0
Luton PL 0 W 0 D 0 L 0 = 0

Table based on results against each other so far.

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