Gray gets his wish with £8m Saudi move

Harrison still injured for several weeks and McNeil just back from injury yet again leaves us light.

He wasn't being played anyway though, but it seems like yet again Everton loss.

Expenditure on Gray: £1.7M, receipt for his sale: £8M, which results in a profit of £5.3M, plus the savings on whatever wages he would have taken between now and the end of his contract.

As Michael one of the editors of this site observed, on another thread, all Premier League teams have to submit a list of 25 players; some have double that number to choose from, some like us don't.

As you noted, Gray wouldn't have got more than a place on the bench, so his leaving the club is hardly leaving us light.

If that's the case, fair enough. Nothing to do with him, just wanted to get a "Dyche Out" comment in because I've watched Everton for 40 years and haven't seen a more tactically inept manager at the helm of our club.

The players that turned us down twice, once for the club and once for the fact that they wouldn't be allowed to play football after 10 minutes of a tactic not working. If they're not 8'-7" and can't head the ball they're fooked. That's why we have 7 keepers on the bench.

Not as much profit as was hoped for but a decent amount nonetheless.

Showed flashes of being great and in a way it's a shame, but it seems his attitude is off and he wasn't playing anyway. Let's move on.

I can only assume that most of these comments are made by fans who have never coached or managed a team before.

The bench should only ever be used by people who are fit and able to play. It has to be that way because, if you're named on the bench, it has to mean you're good enough to be there – not cos the gaffer likes you, or it's your bloody turn – but because you've trained your bollocks off to be good enough.

It is the clearest message Sean Dyche can send to all the players – if you are in the matchday squad, whether starting or on the bench - it is only because you are good enough, and ready enough. "Work hard with a professional commitment to succeed" has to be the message – to everyone, especially the younger players.

If the squad is so poor that there isn't enough fit and able players to select from, that ain't down to Dyche.

You might have watched Everton for 40 years, but it sounds like you've not learned a great deal about the game in that time. We have simply not played up-and-under football in the time Dyche has been here.

He won't outlast Dyche and they won't make up so take the money and run a mile.

Well obviously the correct approach is to take the side of a pretender primadonna and create enough noise so that buying clubs can lowball an offer. Given Iwobi went for £22M, let's hear specific comparisons that make £10M for Gray a loss somehow.

Wait, check ‘somehow'. I'm actually tired of made up premises for pissy football polemics. Make your case if you think this was a bad deal and let's go from there. Thelwell in Excelsius!

I'd like to see some sort of statement now about where all the sales and wages saved money is going. Are all the revenues being used to reduce debt, stored for squad strengthening? Or is Mr Moshiri going to take it all out and leave the club in a worse position than before the sales? Or is the sole intention to make the club a more viable and stable investment to any interested buyers?

The whole future and direction of the club hinges on the answers to these questions so it would be nice to hear something.

Hopefully Paul ‘the Esk' will pen an article giving his take on the post-window financial situation. As Kevin posted yesterday, we all should be alarmed at the situation and need some answers and reassurances.

If you read this, I hope you are feeling better, Paul.

Where can all that swag be, as it definitely isn't in Thelwell's transfer budget?

Is this the lowest fee the Arabs have paid for a signing? Probably… knowing us.

We would have been better keeping him to help keep us in the Premier League.

I was looking for an old thread from years ago that I commented on and I saw Phil Walling's name on the thread.

Does anyone know what happened to Phil? Used to find his comments entertaining.

This is an excerpt of one of Phil's comments from 2015-16 season... life hasn't quite worked out like that:

'...the policy of signing 'no-marks' which you laud has not proved itself at Everton where Moyes's unheralded sixthish rapidly declined to an eleventhish norm under his successor. And that was with 'the magic' of Lukaku, Stones and Barkley there to aid them.

Having said that, I see no reason why, given time, Koeman can't build a 'New Southampton' here and thus restore the relative success of the Moyes years.

Of course, it's not what we dreamed of in the early 'Mosh Dosh' days but hey, we all got carried away at the talk of £millions to spend. What we longed for was a Godfather of the Fairy variety rather than the emissary of the Russian species we ended up with.

Again, it's a call for patience, dear friends. And Evertonians have that in abundance!

I fell in love with the Blues in 1966 when I was at the tender age of 10, still agog with seeing England win the World Cup and mesmerised by the legendary Harvey, Kendall and beloved Ball; it was the apparent passion that these lads (and many more since) played with, and wore the badge with unwavering pride.

Now, since the inauguration of the Premier League and the belittling of the once domestic holy grail (The FA Cup), the emphasis is entirely focused on perpetual success, mind-numbing moneyspeak, and unbelievable managerial pressure for European Glory and total world domination.

I find myself lost for words at the extent of what really goes on behind the scenes with ownership, management and player mutiny, big business corruption and the VAR!!!

Thank you for all your posts. I will read them with interest and hope that “Once a Blue, Always a Blue” will always mean something, preferably in the dizzy heights of the Premier League but, if not, then in football generally

Remember, if it wasn't for the founding members, we would have nothing to talk about, swear about, get frustrated about… but still be madly in love with!!!

Anyway, it's a shame it's ended like this as Demarai was an excellent signing for us, given the fee. Half a dozen goals each season and a couple of huge assists against Chelsea then Palace under Lampard.

Good luck to him.

Like a couple of other posters on other threads, it wouldn't be a surprise to see another sale in the January window – particularly if no new investment arrives.

Let's hope we are still in business in January.

I'll bring that to their attention if the beloved Chairman is still with us.

I'm sure we are all prone to making unfortunate statements.

Someone else once posted that due to the Chairman's ill-health, perhaps fans ought to club together and get a plane flying across Goodison with a 'get well' banner.

That someone else was me. If I posted that now, the reaction to that suggestion would probably get me a lifetime ban from ToffeeWeb.

I meant well at the time!

The Saudis offering £150M for a 31-year-old albeit great striker across the park while we are offered £8M for a decent player who, if he played for any other club, would have gone for double that.

Then again… look who's in charge of our transfer dealings.

And all from his sick bed as well.

That may be one of the arguments put to the independent commission hearing on 25th October. At the very least, the club should be able to evidence greater financial rectitude under the current regime than hitherto.

Phil (4), So you have watched Everton since 1983 and not seen a more tactically inept manager at the helm. That's some statement.

I've watched Everton since 1962 and seen every manager make mistakes, even those with stellar reputations and much stronger squads than we have at present. What really matters is whether a manager can identify what is not working and find solutions.

In this regard, Howard Kendall in his prime was a master of his craft. Frank Lampard, Marco Silva and Mike Walker demonstrably were not during their time with us.

Sean Dyche, with one of the weakest groups of players in our history, has shown an ability to mobilise limited talents, generate attacking performances, and deliver positive results. The 5-1 win at Brighton was evidence of what he can do when most of the key members of the squad are available.

Following the arrival of Beto and Danjuma and the return from injury of McNeil and Calvert-Lewin, the manager will have more options in attack. I think he may surprise some fans with how flexibly he deploys his resources. I believe he will do so very effectively.

We should be able to fine Dele Alli for his parking incident for blatant disregard of the law and bringing the club's name into disrepute.

By staying, he would have been disgruntled and not much use on the field. Everton are having to look at others in the club who are arguably of no use to the squad.

Although we seem to be light in numbers, it is hoped they stay fit enough to be competitive until things improve.

We're 16th, just above Palace.

Oh... 'net spend'.

"Fine Dele Alli for his parking incident."

Get a life.

I guess I have two main recollections. His darting run and goal against Brighton away. And his delivery for Calvert-Lewin to get on the end of that goal against Palace.

Sad that it came to this, but he's moving on and we move on.

Arsenal next week and it's my Birthday.

If you look up the source of that chart, they also give top spenders and recipients for 2023. We are in the top 20 of net recipients of funds. Not sure how accurate their data is, but they claim our outgoings have been €56M and our receipts €129M.

I'd love to see a breakdown, they both seem a bit high and given my understanding is we've paid very little upfront for our incoming, I suspect don't correlate exactly with the flow of cash.

But what this indicates is that we have had a net income from transfers of €73M so far this year (maybe exclusing the Gray money?). I imagine that will include the Gordon money in January 2023 and maybe also Kean.

I'm not holding my breath on seeing this deployed in January 2024. Given our failure to attract finance, I suspect it's all gone into the stadium. It's probably the only way they can keep the work continuing. But that won't last forever given the declared funding shortfall.

Some drone pics of work intensity inside the stadium would be very revealing over the coming months. My hunch is if we don't get another investor, the opening will be pushed back (or worse). Either that or we are forced to sell Pickford or Onana.

I have a very, very bearish view on our financial position. Bankruptcy is not out of the question.

Moaned a lot about the latter.

I acknowledge, one bought for £20M and sold for nowt, the other bought for under £2M and sold for £8M.

I believe you have that exactly wrong. Dyche didn't say anything until he knew it wouldn't affect a deal. The deal was likely a 99% thing before they considered making a statement on behalf of the club.

But be warned: the club hold all the aces, according to the manager anyway… laughable.

That caused the club severe financial issues as that money would have helped the club with day-to-day costs and perhaps a bit towards fees for incoming players.

In the end, we had to sell Iwobi, Gray and others to make up the short-fall from the failed MSP loan, and then had to persuade the clubs that we were purchasing players from to defer payment until next year.

This has nothing to do with Profitability and Sustainability Rules, it has everything to do with a business that has been so badly mismanaged that it is struggling to keep its head above water.

If a solution to the cash-flow issues isn't found and soon, there may be no need to worry about where the cash has gone, as we might all be more concerned about where the club has gone.

I'd rather Dobbin is given minutes than someone who doesn't want to be here.

Also, as everybody is aware, we have spent a small fortune on players and managers and we are awaiting an independent commission next month as to if we have broken any rules and if so what punishment we will face.

Obviously we have borrowed £200 million from Rights and Media Funding and £100 million from MSP. Also, don't forget these amounts borrowed will all have to be paid back with interest. So, unless Moshiri is willing to pump more money into the pot, which doesn't look likely, then maybe more player sales may be needed to help finish the stadium.

The only other option would be a complete buyout of the club, but that would require someone with extremely deep pockets, not only to buy out Moshiri but they would need to pump in money for player transfers.

The problem is that we aren't the most attractive proposition for anybody to spend the vast sums that are needed, and there are a lot better options in the Premier League than Everton, and ones that won't be in danger of relegation which is a big no-no for an investor.

So I don't know how we get out of the mess other than hoping that Dyche can again avoid another relegation battle, which by that time, the stadium should be complete, which is our one golden asset.

I thought MSP had committed £100 million towards the cost of finishing the ground?

Fair enough, you don't like Dyche, Phil, but plainly his tactics aren't the up-and-under you're pretending they are.

So far Dyche's tactical approach seems most similar to Royle and Moyes (and even Ancelotti and Benitez). It's basically a non-possession based counter-attack - which remains a very effective approach especially if you're light on talent compared with the opposition. It's also quite clever how he orchestrates it, using a higher defensive line than most of us (including me) were probably expecting.

After his work last season with a wretched squad, I'd place Dyche tactically (and generally) ahead of Kendall Mark II and III, Walker, Smith, Koeman and Lampard. I'm too young to have experienced Kendall Mark I and can't really remember Harvey.

Martinez and Silva were decent tacticians with a more possession-based approach but certainly had their flaws too, let's be honest. We don't yet know how Dyche will compare to them, but I think his tactics are a good fit for the squad right now. We'll see that more, I expect, as the season unfolds and the likes of Beto, Danjuma, Harrison and McNeil have a chance to play together.

Used to love those MOB vs IMWT debates. Back in the day when we moaned about only being a Top 7 side and Leon Osman was some people's boo boy. God, how far we've fallen!

Still love ToffeeWeb and reading from its amazing contributors.

Only two games and a 30-minute sub slot but I have my doubts about him, maybe too early to make a sound judgement.

The profit is £7.4M. His amortised liability to the club is now roughly £600k drawn down over the 3-year contract he signed.

Let's say you are Man Utd and bring in £600 million in revenue. You could if you wanted, spend £50 million in cash to buy one player and pay the whole thing as a one-time transaction.

We know two things about Everton, one being every year we post a massive loss so presumably we don't have cash on hand to do that. Number two, rather than borrowing from reputable banks, we borrow from LLCs set up as holding companies by a guy from Riverdance to obscure the origins or offshore loans from shadowy loan sharks in tax havens outside British jurisdiction.

So, for example, Onana may cost £33 million over 5 years with staggered payments. But we are funding that with money from the shady lenders. That money accrues huge interest. In reality, Onana cost whatever the cost of borrowing the money to buy him was as opposed to the price agreed with his old club.

Due to our bad credit rating, it costs us much more to borrow than others, not even taking into account the savings of those with actual cash.

I'd be happy if we got Andros Townsend back on a 6- or 12-month deal. Solid pro, good pace, scores the odd goal, decent delivery on free-kicks and crosses. Young and Garner have been atrocious in that regard.

Would the other bloke be Tony Marsh?

I'm probably just a bit young to assess Gordon Lee, although I remember those years. I was just interested in watching the football back then and didn't analyse managers. I seem to remember Billy Bingham not being too popular, especially towards the end of his tenure. But I was even younger then and just listened to my dad's rants.

It was sad to see Howard Kendal Mk II and definitely Mark III, but he was given a hospital pass, especially his last one when he came back when no one else would touch us. Obviously there were other reasons, but the club threw him under the bus.

Martinez, whose appointment worried me, but then surprised me in that first season, but then my fears came home to roost and his tactics scared the shit out of me.

I don't mind admitting that Dyche wouldn't have been my first choice. But he is doing a steady job under difficult circumstances and knows what he is dealing with. A straight talker as well. Keeping the team away from the circus.

And right now, he is the only person from the club communicating to the supporters and facing them every match. It doesn't quite have the ring of Bobby Brown Shoes, but Sean Black Shoes. Always suited. Simple things, but that tells me he tries to set standards.

As I keep saying, I've long given up blaming managers for where we are. There is a deeper root cause.

See you all soon. A frustrating weekend with these irritating internationals, but the week after, we're back.

It is difficult to get a handle on the exact ins and outs. The key point for me is that he's not even made £4M available to sign Coady.

We are on the thinnest of thin ice. If either centre-back gets an injury, we lose games until they are back. That tells me, along with the fact he's no longer offering loans himself to the club, that he's not putting one penny piece into the club.

On the contrary, he is extracting the maximum of value to the huge detriment of the squad. My guess is that, when the next payment to the builder falls due, the ground works will be paused indefinitely until a suitable buyer presents. Last one took 20 years to arrive, when we had a lot more going for us.

And not a peep has he deigned to inform us of. This is what happens when you sell to gangsters, Bill.

Seeing as we reportedly made losses of around £350M in 2020-21, it shouldn't be that surprising that we had to be net positive this summer. Whether or not Moshiri is using the money for the new stadium (capital costs which are separate from P&S Rules), the club probably needed to save around £200M last year and this year (allowing for some extra covid allowances) to not breach P&S Rules again.

Conspiracy theories about the owner not wanting to put any more money into transfers are kind of irrelevant as there is no other option.

Transfer window is closed, the only loser here is Everton. Say no! No chance until January. We then want £20M paid upfront.

If Gray goes on strike, let him. Fine him 2 weeks wages every week until he is sold or makes himself available.

If I demand a free season ticket, do you think I'd get one?

The board have run us into financial ruin and yet are still willing to wipe off tens of millions of pounds on player valuations.

The board doesn't listen to its own fans and yet bends over for its competitors. That's why we want Moshiri out, he and those he has put in charge are clueless.

We're not trying to be 'net spend' positive solely to be the right side of P&S, we're being 'net spend' positive, because there's no ready cash available to spend. MSP's loan of £100m is funding a tranche of the stadium build, right here, right now. Players have been sold so that the club can continue to pay its staff and everyday bills.

Why dream up scenarios when the obvious situation is staring everybody in the face? Moshiri has effectively walked away from the club and will only fund it if it is an emergency situation. Even then, he's more prone for the club to borrow its way out of trouble, but the credit rating is so poor, it will cost an arm and a leg to service that debt.

If you have evidence of anything different taking place, by all means share it with us, we're all desperate for some semblance of order in this chaotic mess we find ourselves in.

I think you're missing my point. Even if a new owner came in with incredibly deep pockets, they would not be allowed to spend anything right now given our P&S position resulting from the massive over-spending that occurred within the previous 3 years.

I'm not giving an opinion on what Moshiri is doing or why he is doing it a) because I have no idea, and b) because it's a moot point.

We are not subject to UEFA FFP.

Splitting hairs maybe, but it's Premier League Profitability & Sustainability Rules.

OCD apologies.

You have correctly made this point previously.

We cannot afford to have anyone on site who is not committed to the cause. A small group with a siege mentality might just get us through.

Hopefully some day we will have to concern ourselves with FFP.

Moshiri has run out of money or access to it, debt is already large so difficult to increase at rates that aren't eye-watering (I haven't seen the purported MSP £100M loan land yet but alone it isn't enough) and the R&M funding restrictive clauses mean expanding equity is difficult.

Moshiri hasn't walked away, he's run out of viable options and is, presumably, working on Plan X as we speak. Personally, I think it has to include sale but at what price? If he cobbles together more debt, expect project 'sell assets' to continue… until there's no assets!

Take the fine, take the points deduction but at least we would have been in a better footballing situation.

Surely a club can only be charged once for such huge losses, not for the subsequent 2 seasons if they haven't made profits to reduce one season's loses to under £105M?

In trying to play fair financially, we have failed massively both on and off the pitch. What for?

Probably wishful thinking on my part but, after seeing what Boehly has done at Chelsea, he may be doing the only thing possible to make us a more saleable asset by freeing up spending restrictions so a new owner isn't hamstrung by not being able to enter the transfer market should they choose to.

The Americans seem to think Premier League clubs are massively undervalued so maybe one will see a new stadium and a freedom to buy new players as a long-term investment opportunity…

1. No-one involved in the club has the sort of money to do a big (£250M to £500M?) spending spree

2. No-one involved in the club wants to spend a single penny on transfers (hence us selling more than we buy for a while)

3. If we get a points deduction this season, we will almost certainly be relegated

4. We're so far adrift that even spending £250M might only give us something like the 8th best squad, so it's a bit pointless.

5. No expensive players worth having would want to join Everton. Only very expensive average players would join us, who then deteriorate in value. We've been down that path before, turning expenditure on Schneiderlin, Bolasie, Allan, Walcott, Tosun etc into nothing at all.

There's no shortcut. We've hopefully stabilised the squad to the degree that we can now move into the player development game. Our future lies in finding more Branthwaites and (hopefully) Chermitis, and developing the likes of Patterson and Garner.

Truth is we have a half-built stadium without (at present) the £350M needed to finish it, a threadbare squad that will struggle to stay in the Premier League, and debt up to our ears. I wonder how Moshiri is getting on with his new plan?

Is this a true reflection of what I am reading here? And if so, would there be any real fixes for the mess that has been allowed to develop?? Or has that point been surpassed???

Given the total silence from the owner and board, I have no idea if that £100M ever hit the bank account but I personally doubt it.

I think we may still have the intermediate loan from their UK representatives, but even that is not certain and, if it hasn't been repaid (very unlikely) or simply not happened, I imagine it is attracting punitively high interest. More likely, it has already gone into the stadium to keep work going. In any case, it is several hundred million light of what is needed and will run out within 6 months or so.

If there is no new investor, and that seems unlikely, we will run out of cash in the first half of next year at the latest. At which point,, either work on the stadium stops, we sell our best players, or we go into administration (which will result in us selling our best players anyway).

In this case, silence is not golden in my view. I think we are staring down the cashflow barrel. I think it will need Moshiri to accept he needs to take a very, very big bath on his investment before he finds it's worth next to nothing.

It wouldn't even surprise me that much if there weren't conversations going on to see if the stadium we have half-built has any asset value outside EFC.

He was a jobbing accountant at Deloitte. They might amass millions but not billions. He got that from working for Usmanov.

But he is not an entrepreneur, just a numbers man (and seemingly not that good at it either, in relation to running a football club). 98% of whatever he has is not from remuneration for a job but from Usmanov channelling some of his wealth through him.

Whether such largesse is truly 'a gift' or comes with strings, we will never know. Obviously that is all off now and maybe Alisher wants some of his money back. Hence our dire straits.

As I say, we will never know about those obligations but I wonder if Kenwright does...

When news broke of the MSP investment in the club coming to naught, it was widely reported that the £100 million in respect of the new stadium would still happen.

I haven't seen anything which suggested otherwise at the time or since.

No Premier League club wanted him because he isn't a very good player in the Premier League.

He certainly doesn't want to be here.

Dyche certainly doesn't want him here.

TaTa, Demarai. Well done, Everton.

In the words of Dale Self:

Thelwell in Excelsius!

I will bet that if we stay up until the new stadium is built, Moshri will sell within a year. He'll clear the debt and cash in on an improved asset.

Hopefully we will get the money-daddy owner then that pours his / her emotion and soul into Everton Football Club.

Until that time, pray we stay up.

Catterick did well for a quite a few years with the backing of Moores but, after 1970, it was a constant stream of wannabees until Kendall and since then some high profile managers have flopped for various reasons – although Moyes did create a somewhat competitive squad for many years under difficult circumstances without frightening many of the money clubs.

I think Dyche is like Moyes and, given the chance, will pull this club around but the financial woes will prevent him from making them more than a mid-table team at best.

"I think Dyche is like Moyes."

Sean's on thin enough ice without you making things more difficult.

And Brendan, place that trick after a few posts in between when we look directly above and see the rest of the quote, well.

I think it is hard to be certain about the current situation, given radio silence. There were indeed reports that MSP were at least going to loan £100M. There were also reports, before the minority share stake was abandoned, that their UK reps were advancing some or all of that money. What we don't know for sure is what actually hit the account and if any did, whether that has since been converted to an MSP loan (and on what terms).

Jamie @78,

Whether we stay up or not, I think we will run out of money long before we find out. It's a shame Paul the Esk is not around for his (better) insights, but I'd guess that happens around February or March next year.

Either way, the sum involved is nothing like enough to complete the stadium, based on what Moshiri himself said was needed. Based on the latest estimates, I think we are still £200-300M light. Some of that seems to be being met by player sales but, even so, if the stadium is supposed to complete late 2024, and based on a roughly equal phasing for payment, the cash runs out a good 6-9 months before completion.

Hold onto your (hard) hats!!!

A lot of managers (Dyche included) prefer to keep players that they don't fancy to make up a number that they are comfortable with (be it for training purposes or simply for their own comfort). More often than not, that pains the DoFs because that might represent missed chances to cash out on assets on hand. If Gray is not sold before the Saudi deadline, that would be another sad example of these situations.

Juventus have 2 general rules on Transfers: 1) Unless a player is a club legend in the level of Big Dunc, Dixie or Kendall (eg, Del Piero, Chiellini), all players would be sold before their 30th birthday; 2) All the sub-30-years-old players would not be allowed to have their contracts run down to expiry and they will be sold no later than a season before their expiry.

I see Gray's case as our gradual reckoning and move towards competent, modern player trading.

Dyche is not going to play him anyway, so IMHO that is not a loss at all.

It's very frustrating because I keep hearing that Moshiri is speaking to an American investment group (not 777 Partners) that want to buy Everton, lock, stock & barrel, but nothing seems to be happening, considering they have been interested for a very long time.

Would Evertonians play dirty with regards to what Mark says
@74? I don't think it's our style, and even though it's our football club, I'm not sure many of us were brought up this way!

In the topic of profit on player sales, I often cite the Roubinho move from Man City.

Bought for £32 million, sold for £16 million and City booked £18 million profit to their accounts.

Now if we've bought Gray for £1.7 million and sold him for £8 million, our profit should be much better than £6.3 million on the same basis.

Maybe some accountants among us can run the numbers?

I'd have to offer up some alternative wording as I think you might have taken the 'split' a little too far.

The stadium development company is a separate entity that is wholly owned by the club. Player sales could be funding stadium construction to the extent that they are a source of income for the club as a whole, which is ultimately paying for the stadium construction, along with everything else involved in running a Premier League football club.

You've slightly lost me there regarding your comment in your last para.

What did I say in my post that Evertonians might play dirty with?

The Manager has to make do and was powerless in regard to who stays, especially when the player is advised how to orchestrate it. No surprise given the parties involved. Thewell has done well on a tight budget, probably ensuring Premier League survival, which the manager is grateful for.

So Everton have not only ensured Premier League survival, but are not going to have a disastrous relegation scenario hanging over them this season, so the independent commission should be easier dealt with. Everton have worked with the Premier League on remedial action over the Summer.

Everton should have never been in this position in the first place.

Unless we get any significant new investment before the January window closes, I expect we'll find that the Gray money will go the same way as the Iwobi, Cannon and Arteta money.

Hopefully Paul the Esk and/or Rodger Armstrong will provide some insight on one of their next podcasts.

We are in a dire predicament financially and, unless we can stay in the Premier League till the stadium is built, then we will face further financial hardship.

We also have the independent commission making its decision on 25 October, which could mean a heavy fine and hopefully not a points deduction which would really make it difficult to avoid relegation.

I am sure, whatever the ruling, then the club will appeal it if they can. So between now and Christmas, we have to hope that we are out of the relegation zone and starting to feel a little more comfortable than we have for the last two seasons.

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/3675026/everton-sell-gray

So we could and should have brought someone in even on loan who fitted a similar profile.

I can't believe across the entire global market that there were no players out there that we could have used for one of those available four loan slots.

Of course some will be adamant he couldn't possibly be telling the truth.

But he wouldn't be the first.

Anyway, he's gone now. Onwards and... well, we'll see.

It seems we are finally showing some fiscal responsibility, unfortunately we are having to take our medicine due to the way the club has been run.

As such, it makes sense to sell wantaway Gray, as the stadium nears completion we might become an attractive proposition to any potential buyers of the club.

I wonder if the Saudi Pro League will draw money away from the Premier League? I don't know a soul that will watch the Saudi Pro League, but lots of international viewers of the Premier League might be drawn to it to watch the superstars, there are many fake glory supporters around the world after all.

Could hit the ‘big 6' harder than most, who make much of their cash from merchandise.

Actually I think it's an absolute certainty that the club relies on that kind of situation.

It's just a question I sometimes ask with regards to our silent partner, and if we as a fan base would ever try and expose this.

Ta-ra, mate… keep burning those bridges.

I've heard that Everton have long since balanced the books now anyway.

Bear in mind we will have had payments for the Anthony Gordon deal in January and also this summer alone we've rid ourselves of Iwobi, Mina has been removed off the wage bill and Tom Davies.

We've sold Cannon and Simms too.

The only fee we've paid and it's not due until next year is the Beto one.

But surely we were already balanced from the Premier League's rules perspective? We've sold and barely spent over the last few years. This is another season of net profit from player trading... which is another way of saying that we're not investing in the playing squad.

Feels like the plan is to just exist. Just.

So the fee we got for Gray would only pay half of our interest payments on the loans for 1 year. Thats the sort of mess we are in, and without further loans and its no guarantee that many companies would facilitate a loan given how much we owe in loans already, then its hard to see how we generate the funds needed to finish the stadium without more player sales in Jan.

Understood. Not sure I'd be up for that, the Uzbeki has the look of a man who might well have some equally ugly enforcers on hand to 'take care of' miscreants. So maybe Kenwright needs to watch his step...

Chelsea have spent 1.2 billion in the last 2 windows and also don't give a toss about a large fine or points deduction.

Once again this hits the lowest clubs most, I personally don't expect City or Chelsea to ever be held accountable.. as Keith Richards once said 'some fish are just too big to fry'

The numbers don't make sense

Purchased for 32

Sold for 16 and

Profit booked was 18

How long was the contract and how many years was the City player into his contract?

Let's assume he had a 5 year contract and he left after on the first day of year 4, surely his book value
at that time would be 12.8 and the booked profit would be 3.2.

To generate a profit of 18 from a sale of 16 would mean the player had a book value of - 2.

I'm not sure we've been screwed on the price either, it's about right for a player of his standing/ability

He scored a great goal v Man City on 31 December but since then he got 2 goals from penalties and none from open play.

Good riddance!

Hari Plumz from Dynamo Jibrovia to Al Jol'Sin for £15 squillion.

Eric Schun from FC Trevinia to Al Kuh'Pon for £20 trillion.

Jack Meehoff from Club Brousilla to Al Muh'Ree for £6 billion.

Demarai Gray from Everton to Al Ettifaq for five conkers (including a 25-er) a dead good Milbro catty, a bag of ollies, a quarter of pear drops and a 1972 Dandy Annual.

Is Hari Plumz the less talented of the two Plumz, Ol D'Yer Plumz being the tricky winger?

And it's an absolute disgrace that the club didn't hold out for the 1942 edition of the Dandy as that would have raised at least ten times the value of the 1972 publication, typical Everton.

Buying young players carries less risk of heavy losses if the don't work out. Onana has hardly shot the lights out but we would make a tidy profit if we sold him on.

Now go and get Roberto Pereyra. Beto can give him a call. You know it makes sense.

I believe there is no opportunity allowed to appeal the decision of the "independent" commission.

"He was bought for £32.5 million in September 2008 on a four-year contract, so annual amortisation was £8.1 million.

He was sold after two years, so cumulative amortisation was £16.2 million, leaving a value of £16.3m in the books.

Sale price to Milan is reported as £18 million, so Man City will report a profit on sale of £1.7 million in the 2010-11 accounts.

Therefore, City will show an annual profit improvement of £18.1 million after this deal: £8.3 million lower wages + £8.1 million lower amortisation + £1.7 million profit on sale.”

I wish him all the best, because he did a decent job, got us a good profit. The exit could have been handled more professionally by Gray – I am totally behind Dyche on his stance – but I suspect he has been ill-advised.

The booked profit on the deal would be £1.7m - if Man City have been following Swiss Ramble's lead, it's no wonder they managed 100+ P&S charges!

Also, there is an appeal process after next month's hearing. Apart from that, I'm with you all the way. :)

£8m for Damarai is daylight robbery, which I believe still carries a punishment of hand removal in Saudi Arabia.

I'd like nothing more than to see Stevie Me with a hook on one arm together with the likes Abu Hamza, Captain Hook and the baddie from Live & Let Die as backroom staff.

Think about that. People who are slamming Thelwell and Dyche are the same people who would buy Demarai Gray right now, right fucking now, for a cool £8m.

I await your charming responses.

As a consequence of this policy [method of funding new stadium], which is dressed up as prudent financial planning, it is down to our manager, and not the shareholders, to have to deal with the Club's tight finances, carry the burden of repaying the stadium debt by selling his best players and having to continue to find cheaper replacements. All of that, naturally, comes at the expense of performance on the pitch.

This policy is leading to the loss of our best players, often to our main competitors, and even causes the players themselves to question their future at the Club and the Club's ambitions. The situation with our captain and outstanding performer from last season Robin van Persie sums this up. Yet again we are faced with losing our true marquee player at the Club because we cannot assure him of the future direction and give confidence that we can win trophies. Where are the safeguards to ensure that this doesn't happen again and again in the future?

As a top Club we should, at the very least, match if not beat the offers that other clubs make to try and lure our very best players away, and also provide a more compelling vision of the future. You can try and put a good face on a bad game for as long as you want, pontificating about the merits of this model, but it will not hide the obvious fact that it just does not allow our great manager to fully realize his managerial talent and deliver success for the fans who are paying the highest prices in the land.

It appears that a place in the Champions League will be the pinnacle of our ambition again next season. Unfortunately, in the future we may see this ambition lowered further. It doesn't help to turn a blind eye to the reality of the situation and keep thinking of ourselves as being in the same league as Real Madrid, Chelsea, Manchester City and Barcelona. To have a fighting chance of success, which means winning trophies, we need to match them in every aspect, including, if not first and foremost, financial.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions!

Alisher Usmanov's letter to the Arsenal board

When you amortize you reduce the value of the asset (player) on the balance sheet and you increase the expense amounts in the profit and loss.

Dr Profit and Loss
Cr Balance Sheet
(With amortization cost of player for the year)

Eric

The profit on the sale of the player was £1.75m
(18 - 16.25)
Dr Balance sheet (Bank) 18m
Cr Profit 1.75m
Cr Balance sheet 16.25m

An asset for £18M must have been created on the sale, "Future costs /expenses saved" and this must then have been written off to the profit and loss account over the remaining two years of the contract.

Dr Balance Sheet 18m
Cr Profit & Loss

Cr Profit & Loss £18M
In year of sale

Dr Profit and loss £9M
Cr Balance Sheet £9M

Over final two years

I am only a small practitioner and never seen such an accounting treatment and therefore the above is a best guess.

On another note concerning Saudi, what a load of twaddle spun by Southgate's bootlicker Henderson.

He was quite happy to gain brownie points with his support of certain values whilst in the Premier League and then he calmly disregards them for the lure of big money in the Saudi Pro League. What a hypocrite!!

They'll be singing on the terraces at Al Jol'Sin

🎶 How I love you, how I love you, my dear old Hari

Dale, nobody was queuing round the block to pay £20m for him so it's supply and demand. I think the way he has handled it leaves a lot to be desired. We could have possibly got more pre window, if Fulham or Palace were offering £12m the Saudis could have been told to pay £15m but he dragged it out and forced our hand. The mega fees don't apply as he's not a marquee signing or a draw, he's a journeyman.

Still I think we will be tracking Sulemana and organising a loan in January with option to buy. So this £8-10m will at least help us get a replacement. In theory, our finances mean any fees are like a dwarf planet being sucked into a supermassive black hole.

Still surprised none of the Saudis took a look at Gomes, the slightly slower paced game over there could suit him.

Seems we might only get the conker up front and have to sue for the Dandy and all the other add-ons that Eugene mentioned.

Tony, I'm just on the consistency of argument thing rather than market talk. If one thinks Everton got fucked by selling Gray for £8M that directly implies, if you were a DOF, that you would buy at that price. If you know there is a queue of buyers at £8m, then that's easy arbitrage.

I think buying Gray for £8m is a mistake for anyone but the Saudi clubs. Fulham and Palace likely agree.

It would be very unlikely that any of the Saudi clubs would withhold payments as they would quickly find nobody would sell to them, but it's a loophole that does exist as the Times reported today.

I'm hoping that they buy that Egyptian bloke and pay a tenner down and make the other lot wait for ten or so years for the outstanding balance.

In a bit Gray.

Oooo handbags time, I can see this causing utter despair amongst Evertonians everywhere.

Very inconsistent at this level and £8 million is more than enough. Player, really wanted to stay? Who knows? Dyche will be blamed whatever happens. Dyche wants everyone marching together for the purpose of Everton Football Club climbing the table. Want out? Please leave your pass at reception.

Really can't see what all the fuss is about. Time to move on!

There is no "loophole" as such as any failure to pay the agreed transfer fee would be subject to normal commercial legal challenge. Granted there are additional protections when it's a matter between two European clubs but to suggest that Saudi Clubs can simply renege on a transfer fee is wide of the mark.

everton-may-not-receive-agreed-fee-from-al-ettifaq-for-demarai-gray-as-european-rules-emerge

We need a number 10. Creative, scores some goals.
We've just freed up the wages of Iwobi and Gray.

Jesse Lingard is a free agent.
Thoughts please?

I couldn't disagree more Martin, because my wish would be for another decent wide man, and an aggressive no nonsense central midfield player.

A decent number ten would obviously not go amiss, but when you have got players with the speed, strength, height and ability of Beto and DCL, (if he can get and stay fit) then it's got to be a no nonsense 4-4-2, imo mate?

I was simply trying to point out to a fellow ToffeeWebber that the story was being sensationalised by some parts of the media. I don't think there's anything in my previous post #144 which suggests that I was accusing you of trying to mislead anyone or of being a smart alec.

Club doesn't want to sell, supposedly. Says so publicly.

Player agitates for move, publicly.

Club: "Aargh, then you leave me little choice but to acquiesce reluctantly to your request!"

With this script enabling the club to say, "We wanted to keep him, but once he agitated for a move, we had to sell him. And that's why we didn't spend the fee. We couldn't cos the window had shut. See?''

Fair enough, I took it the wrong way, and I duly apologise, perhaps you could have been clearer that it was the media that sensationalised a facet of the rules though.

In any case, the creativity should be apparent once Harrison and McNeil are playing – and once (hopefully) Garner and Onana click as a central midfield base. McNeil may yet move inside to be more of a playmaker than a winger – with Danjuma wide left and Beto up front on his own. I'd be keen to see that.

I know Dyche played 4-4-2 much of the time at Burnley but that was simply pragmatism with the players / resources available. It might make an appearance very late in games to pinch a goal, but the starting formation will be a 4-3-3, 4-5-1, or 4-3-2-1.

The problem with a 4-4-2 formation with no playmaker and a couple of big lads up front, is that you are dependent on getting it wide and delivering in. If you come up against a pair of no-nonsense brickwall centre-halves, the game's over.

A good Number 10 takes the benefit of a no defensive midfield and adds ingenuity and the unexpected. Are we not better with a Sigurdsson, Rooney, James type player who can unlock a defence with flair or the unexpected?

We are Everton, remember the Holy Trinity?

We are also where we are because we have failed as a club to get decent managers with decent players by a pair of owners who have been incompetent in adherence to any strategy.

Without a creative midfielder you are playing percentage football, a version of Big Sam's mantra. This is why, for me, Dyche is a needed short-term fix, a good manager but not one to win trophies. No nonsense, but no future once he has us on secure ground. I like what he is doing because it needs to be done but does it turn us from relegation fodder to top 6?

The question to be asked is what does it take to do that and have we got the owners, manager or players to do that. At the moment... not a hope.

The club should have a strategic plan to work to that will put in place the resources and people to ensure that by 2030 we will be top 6. Right now we need tools in our locker instead of tools in the boardroom!

I think right now the cupboard is bare and so is the squad so we will have to play a formation to suit the players available and the opposition.

That means variations of 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2 whichever gets us some points on the board.

Arsenal will be a big test for the squad and the manager and his tactical nous; however, we have won the home game against them in the last 2 seasons so hope prevails.

Any idea what SR means then when he says Man City will show an annual profit improvement of £18.1 million?

They also never make the last payment.

The line that did it for me was that he was prepared to give his all but wasn't allowed to do that. Clearly did not like the idea of being a substitute, knew he would be, downed tools, refused to train when he came back for preseason to get a move.

As I've said previously. I admire his self/belief but the reality is the lad has gone beyond that, he is deluded. Also, a very petty individual, pretending to big up the fans yet deleting every picture of himself in a shirt.

Good riddance.

Sums it all up.

Of course some people on here were using it to bash Dyche.

His excuse for leaving was to be with his young family and then he wants to go to Saudi Arabia. Who got inside his head and jumbled it all up?

This lad should remember that his career was going nowhere when he came to EFC and not much has changed! Perhaps, if there is a Saudi version of the Fast Show, he could play Dithering Dave a treat!

Not a clue, not a clue, I can't see how they arrived at the £18.1 number.

I would love to know the accounting entries from the date of purchase to the date of sales which resulted in the £18.1 figure being generated.

https://twitter.com/TopBalc4/status/1699671240162615437?t=LBvNJsU12t9-1R_3W_gXzw&s=19

Sancho is another prime example at Man Utd.

He is doing a great job for his CV. No manager will touch with that shitty attitude.

This is actually a good outcome.

We had a pissed off player whining on social media who was probably never going to play again. Now he has gone.

Dyche likes his wide players to defend hard. This lad won't do it.

Give the club a break, for God's sake.

So
Mo Salah, a decent man with a superb club loyalty record: Player rating (PR) £75m - FN (premium) +100% - Adjusted transfer fee (ATF) £150m
Richarlison PR £50 - FN (premium) + 25% ATF £62.5m
Seamus Coleman - PR £1m - FN Premium 100% - ATF £2m
Damarai Gray - PR £20m - FN Discount -75% - ATF £5m
Jadon Sancho - PR £50m, FN discount -50% - ATF £25m
Marcus Rashford (2018) - PR £20 - FN Premium 50% - ATF £30m
Marcus Rashford (2021) - PR £60 - FN Discount 50% - ATF £30m
Marcus Rashford (2023) - PR £80 - FN Discount 25% - ATF £60m
Deli Alli, PR £40m FN rating -200% - ATF toxic waste, worth £80m to get him off the books