Dyche responds in Gray wrangle

Lacking from the above is the reason for Gray downing tools in the first place, something must have been said for the fallout to be thus.

I guess if it's a Saudi club then he will be gone. If it isn't, then Dyche should have said nothing and sought to repair the damage done.

Let's be honest, he's an Everton player until he's sold and if he wants to go to another club he would surely want to be fit and ready to play for them.

Until he goes or stays, Everton are paying his wages, you can't let the tail wag the dog.

While not a direct quote, that is calling Gray out for an unjustified position. I do not understand what else anyone would want Dyche to do in the interest of the club.

But do make something up and start on that please because there is square root of fuck all to complain about here.

But we need to change the culture at the club. If you join us, you don't dictate to the club what is happening.

On the face of it, and what's been aired, I support Sean Dyche in this instance.

Sean Dyche has matter-of-factly stated quite clearly that it is the club that calls the shots and not the player.

The way this pans out is Demarai winds his neck in, trains hard, and commits to the club or he rots in the reserves; the decision is his...

Anyone siding with Demarai needs to take their head out of their arse, the players can never be allowed to call the shots.

Does it matter? Well, it explains our pursuit of a wide player, because Dyche either didn't like Gray or Gray saw it as a snub... Either way, he is toast.

It doesn't convey an image of someone in charge who feels secure in his job, rather someone who seems like he is engaged in finger-pointing as he doesn't want to take the blame.

I would have preferred a response like "Demarai is an Everton player, like the rest of us, he will spend the next few weeks working hard so he can help us move forward. End of."

I've always liked Gray and I think he adds something different to the squad but Dyche is right.

The position is now irretrievable for both Dyche and Gray so we should be doing everything we can to get him out of the door, not preventing a sale.

Sounds like the club were very accommodating towards Gray in the original Saudi move, that fell through.

This other club are offering £7M (according to reports) which is £5M less than the offer from the first club, so it's no surprise that Everton have said no to Gray.

I wouldn't be surprised if he still ends up going, but it will be for between £10-12M.

I see Lingard is still out of contract. Would anyone take him for 12 months if he accepted greatly reduced wages?

On the subject of club spokesperson(s), is Dave Prentice still at the club – if so, what does he actually do?

Dyche has form for treating other players in a somewhat ruthless fashion, it's not just Demarai. And as has been commented upon, we need all hands on deck at the moment. He gets paid good money to handle these entitled millionaires with a little more skill than this.

I agree but I just don't think Sean should have kept the public back and forth going because, as of now, Gray is here with no suitable offer on the table.

We may well need him before Christmas, in which case, what kind of reaction can he expect from the crowd if he doesn't immediately dazzle?

I don't think it does morale good when you have a player who is seemingly being forced to play for the club. But if we get a last-ditch bid, then it makes Dyche look weak as he has already said the club don't want him going.

If he stays and remains in exile, then it makes us and him look stupid for wasting money on wages (us) and wasting a career (him). If he does stay and plays, he is one mislaid pass away from the boo boys claiming he isn't trying.

I would have just tried damage limitation, keep it under wraps, and not been drawn into childish social media back and forth. It never ends well. Look at Sancho, for example?

I assume this alludes to a discussion about Gray's role and playing time. This indeed could be a hangover issue from last season that Dyche may not have treated sensitively. I will just give that and say that he was dealing with Calvert-Lewin as well and just got us over the line.

To say Gray never had a chance to prove himself before this season's training is not credible. He may have had a high bar for this season set for him and decided to make Jamaica his showcase for an exit and just ended up talking too much. We don't know and likely won't but, at this point, there is a preponderance of doubt falling on Gray's account of this matter.

My comment on making stuff up should have been generalized for overall Dyche complaint sessions so I apologize sincerely that you took that as a reference to you.

And Christin,e as example for the creativity mentioned above, I offer this:

Kevin 17 “But top-level coaches never get to this position.”

Well go back to the beginning, it seems to me that when it was time, after the pre-season and Demarai had come back from his stint with Jamaica and an extra 2 weeks off, he told Dyche that he had a done deal with Fulham, Crystal Palace or elsewhere, and had refused to train.

It was then, not now when Dyche made it plain he was still an Everton player until he was told different. This happened weeks ago, not today. Dyche is only reporting what happened weeks ago in response to Gray's recent version of what happened.

As plain as day, Dyche is stating to Demarai Gray, his agent and any other Everton player, it is the club that will decide when a player is sold.

Anyone who thinks this is a bad thing to do… have a word with yourself.

Gray was of course, also stupid for making his grievance public, but a manager with Dyche's experience is the one who really should know better.

It is fairly obvious Gray is frustrated at not getting away and I am not surprised that he wants the move given that he is somewhat down the pecking order for the left wing spot.

Whatever the case, it is a sorry spectacle when the relationship between one of our more effective players and our manager has become so broken that they feel the need to engage in such a public quarrel. I only hope this is not an indication of a deeper malaise in the changing room.

It's more that the reality of the situation sometimes needs to be explained, especially when a player just downs tools after being given an extended holiday, and then has the temerity to talk about a lack of respect, because he thinks he has agreed to sign for another football club. He obviously hasn't liked being told a few home truths from the manager of the club that he his still contracted to.

Dyche, told me that Thelwell has done an incredible job with such limited resources and he wants to stay at Everton for as long as possible because he believes it's a great club which has just lost its way over the last few years.

Once he gets everyone fit (if only), he believes we can surprise a few people this season, because he has got some very good players in his squad.

I obviously hope this ends up happening because it was good to bump into a few old mates today, and seeing that they haven't changed in the slightest. 🙏

Demarai Gray is 27 – not 16.

And also let that Saudi team weaken Wolves, they're lining up Podence or Sarabia instead... We might need it!

A disaffected player… that's all we need.

Regarding Gray, it's said that he refused to train and wanted off and actually came to the club saying the deal is done without the club giving any form of go-ahead. The club have said "You're going on our terms, not yours," and then the lad has gone to social media to cause trouble.

A shame but in reality Danjuma has already matched Gray's non-penalty goals from last season after starting 3 games. Danjuma, McNeil and Harrison will score goals and create a fair few chances between them. If we can get to January without any injuries to them then another winger can be looked at.

The interview as a whole is worth watching and, as much as some on here aren't Dyche's biggest fan (myself included at times), what I will say is that he doesn't hide from communication as a lot of others in the club do. He talks about how he has a lot to prove and knows we haven't got a win in the league yet.

One thing I'm confident of is that Gray will not play for us again. He's deleted everything Everton-related off his social media and has handled this poorly.

I just came back to say how shocking it is to see good working-class people of England trying to give Al and his buddy the other Al a discount by taking up for Gray.

Dyche and his backroom staff all played for Brian Clough, and I often considered his public statements ill-advised, but as far as I know, players always respected him and enjoyed playing for his teams. We could all do with a little of the Clough manic right now.

Dale, no need to apologize, speculation often leads to nowhere fast... the missing link in this episode is how we got here, not that it matters now. Club comes first.

Dyche can turn us around if given time by us and the absent ones. There is no one better suited to this and he is showing he will get rid of primadonnas or under-performers supported by the excellent Thelwell.

As supporters, we have to accept that we are no longer dining on the top table and the only way back is hard work and development of players, not chucking stupid sums at players who were half-decent a few years ago.

More power to you Sean!

Seems to me he lacks direction, perspective and is just looking for the easy route to a big payday.

Shame because he is half-decent.

How did you find talking to Dyche?

Everton Football Club has been built on many things but, even when we have lost our pragmatism out on the pitch, the people on the terraces have managed to produce it in spades.

How does that song go again…..? "We will fight, fight, fight, with all our might, for the boys in the royal blue jerseys."

Having an extra body who doesn't want to be here will be negative on the squad so get him gone.

Glad you got to spend time with mates, bet that was a real buzz! Circumstances often change but people rarely do. They are a nuts-and-bolts management team, no airs and graces, exactly what we need to get through this bad patch.

At this particular point in time, we need a team who can graft for each other, that's what Dyche and his team is fashioning, we are going to be okay.

Well, it seems it was the truth. Gray will be gone and we will be more thin than ever. Only available wingers are McNeil, Danjuma and Harrison when fit. The squad is paper thin all over.

This wasn't a good transfer window and if we didn't buy Beto it would be one of the worst. I really hope players will stay healthy this season.

He clearly said that he normally would keep these issues in house but, as Gray went public, he felt obliged to set the story straight.

You cannot have the tail wagging the dog, which has been too prevalent since Kenwright took over.

And thank you with all my heart for that other thing. Looking forward to thanking you and your dad in person when I get there.

This is Demarai Gray not Cristiano Ronaldo for Christ sake.

Can't be having players dictating the way here.

I am with Dyche 100%. Even in these days of overpaid average players, we have to back our manager. Gray can hop it to the journo butchers.

It was going well until I happened to mention Bill Kenwright, Alex, although anyone listening to us speak, would have found it hard to believe we hadn't really spoken in 35 years.

I've spoken to Dyche twice, during that time, but it's the first time I had seen my old midfield partner, Steve Stone, since I left Forest, so I had to congratulate him on the career he had, before we started where we left off all those years ago.

I don't know Ian Woan as much, although he his also very easy to talk to, and comes across as an absolute gentleman, who told me he is absolutely delighted to be at Everton.

I thanked them all for helping to keep us up, and told them I personally didn't think that they have been given anywhere near enough credit, but they all said the future is the most important thing, especially the manager, who comes across as someone who just really wants to succeed.

We will see, it made me want to start going the match again, but then I saw a text from Rob Halligan, just checking that Mike Gaynes was still alright for those tickets when he comes over… 😂😂 I suppose you'd better thank Bill Kenwright, Mike! 👍

I've just seen that post @41now Mike, and the pleasure is all mine, mate.

Gray's become a distraction and, the sooner he is sold, the better for all concerned. In our situation, we need unity – not mutiny.

Gavin, Re Jesse Lingard, I can't see it, I think we will go with what we have got now and maybe get one or two reinforcements in January.

Grant #38… I bet Dyche is still here January.

Great bit of insight there, mate!

No way back for Demarai now. But he might argue there already wasn't one and he needed to force a move.

It's not like he was considered a starter. Dyche was picking Maupay and Simms ahead of him.

Consider that this isn't a regular deciding that he wants to move to a bigger club and going on strike. And it's not an out-of-favour player deciding to wait out a great contract and not bother training.

It's a player who isn't going to be played, deciding that he'll have to make a move. And the club seem to have taken umbrage at that.

He gets a decent crust every week and, as part of that deal, he must give 100% commitment to the team and club. He downed tools and he must ask how Fulham and the first Arab club did not proceed. Did they know something that us supporters didn't?

Stick him in the stiffs and tell him to train at 8pm at Finch Farm when everyone is gone. Glad to see some on here saying the tail doesn't wag the dog. That was one of my old man's often-used sayings.

Can't blame the lad for wanting a bigger wage but, for fuck's sake, earn what you are getting first. Disrespectful sod. Well in, Sean Dyche.

Of course they want all the rewards, but they can't be allowed to enter into agreements with agents or other clubs without the owner club's permission.

As for Demarai, he should be moved on. Then he can show us what we are missing out on, or reside in the ‘could have been good but wasn't' file along with all the others.

Good riddance!

I was wondering when someone would row against the tide and be the one that shifts the responsibility for this onto the club.

You're the one.

I'm 100% Team Dyche on this one.

Sell Gray, and do it post-haste. The last thing this team needs is locker-room drama.

He's going to Saudi Arabia. They're overpaying for the kit man, for fuck's sake! He's a treasure hunter and not a team player now in my opinion.

I'd make him train with the U18s while he awaits his move.

Players who "power move" a club can do one. Players are rich, and if you act the spoiled brat, just fuck right off somewhere else. Dyche is completely justified; were I him, I'd never put up with this level of shit, and I hope Gray doesn't see the light of day ever again in an Everton uniform.

Being another Forest old boy yourself, any chance of you getting a coaching role at the club?

Then we could get some genuine ITK info on TW!

It could have been done so much better. All Dyche had to do was say,

"Demarai, give this team every ounce of 100% in all the games upto the international break and you can fuck off to Saudi with my blessings."

But no, we have a war of words we could do without. Manage the players like a good manager should.

I just hope the Arabs are willing to take this petulant character off our hands.

We obviously could do with as much Saudi oil money thrown at us as possible, but I won't hold my breath. Gray throwing his toys out of his pram has not helped, has it?

No. The player unilaterally went out and tried to force a move. Dyche has every single right, when approached in the fashion he was, to inform the player, "Not so fast there, you ungrateful little dick. We'll trade you when we want to, you signed a contract."

Gray's attitude is what created this, and he deserves every bit of shit tossed his way. His approach to this whole affair was shitty.

Bring on the war of words. There'll be no doubt who's in charge of Everton – Sean Dyche. Any players coming in will need to play hard for the team and in his way. They have this example to illustrate what will happen if they go all spoiled, Johnny-Big-Britches on the manager. And that's not a bad thing. When the inmates run the asylum, you get anarchy – something we can not afford at this moment.

Sorry, I don't see it your way in the least.

They all come across as genuine and good in my opinion, passionate to get Everton upwardly mobile. They deserve to succeed.

Up The Toffees 💙

Tough titty for Gray.

He's not even that good.

And when you read Tony A's contributions... well deserved support methinks!

You can't hide these things, particularly if a player is acting the tool by having a pop on social media. Dyche had no choice he had to put the other side of the story given fans delight at blaming the coach for anything and everything these days.

And if the player doesn't shape up, nothing wrong in offering him "out" to resolve matters – there can only be one boss.

It goes back to my gripe with the football club in general, because it's not the first time Everton have started the season without a recognized centre-forward, but I suppose it's not easy learning from your past mistakes when you haven't got any real money to spend.

Another thing I suppose I learned is how much being a professional footballer takes out of the body, because they said they can't even take part in staff matches these days, except for Woan, who probably had more natural talent and never had to run that much anyway!

I've been having lots of conversations with my sons and my wife the last 2-3 years about truth. Truth is, in my opinion, the standard bearer for Decency and Good.

You see a lot of people in and around current world events the last few years seeking out the truth. Facts behind decisions. Transparency behind policy. Statistics around subjects of import.

You conversely see a hell of a lot of people, politicians, companies, media, etc., not overly interested in the truth but rather an agenda. They often twist narratives to their benefit, twist facts, and engage in crafty half-truths and sometimes outright lies.

The truth-seekers are good. The twisters are evil. Period, end of.

Sean Dyche is an honest man. I don't even think he knows how to lie. He'll tell you exactly what happened, his perspective, straight forwardly, and without any bending of facts or any attempt to twist narratives. He's been so ridiculously honest with the state of affairs at Everton that sometimes it's shocking.

Sean Dyche is a good man. Simple as. I've liked him and his approach the day he arrived. No bullshit, this is how it is, this is what we need to do. He never shirks from a question, and he answers everything as honestly as he is capable.

He's a breath of fresh air in an environment full of weasels and liars. Truth is his approach and mantra. That's good enough for me.

Someone needs to tell Kenwright and Moshiri that this is the priority!

I really hope we can help the manager out with 1-2 really good free signings. We lack depth and with all the wages freed up then we must have some manoeuvrability.

Alas I fear not… which means we'll be crossing our fingers every week for no fresh injuries.

I like Demarai Gray, he's scored some great goals for Everton. But in terms of end product and consistency, then, I'd say he hasn't delivered.

People can counter saying the whole Everton squad has been dysfunctional over the last 2 years but fair play to Sean Dyche and his team for keeping Everton up last season and changing the mentality from being weak and spineless to being a team that cares.

Yep, Villa away this season was a very bad day.

Interesting seeing the views of Leicester fans when he was on course to go to Germany in 2021. It's almost the same narrative as he put out on Sunday.

Whatever you do, mate, don't ever mention ToffeeWeb to him!!!

I also don't believe the "I've always enjoyed playing for the Everton fans" either. I think he hates it here and has no affinity with Everton fans or scousers but won't admit it because he knows if he said anything, that would cause a shit storm.

He thought the manager wouldn't say anything and everyone would feel sorry for the poor little thing, but I back Dyche. Move him on, he's a bad apple.

My view is that Gray is a disruptor – similar issues as he had at Leicester – so I'm happy for him to go but on our terms.

He could probably do a lot worse than have someone like Mr ToffeeWeb to speak to when he needs to get certain things off his chest.

I suppose it's called trying to help old friends, and Dyche definitely needs help trying to manage a football club that has seemingly lost its way both on and off the pitch.

What is the point of keeping him as he doesn't want to play for us? There will always be a replacement?

Dyche played him 3 times since January when he became manager. We won two, drew one I think. Preferring Maupay as his striker, for fuck's sake!

Don't tell me Gray was lazy then and not fit as he was sub most other times and never got a game. Dyche, like all managers, has his favourites. Demarai isn't one of them – that's obvious.

If I was in his shoes, I would want to go as well. I wouldn't do it his way; I would have handed in a transfer request.

Trust with the club has been broken and Dyche has allowed himself to be wheeled out in response. Hope Gray gets his move, but he would be needed, since they haven't managed a replacement.

I actually thought he did not want a move at all, but it appears that the breakdown is deeper. What a distraction.

Also, we clearly need the money. So both sides will get the outcome they want or need.

Hadn't read your post before I posted. Dyche has a very difficult job having to cope with Gray reaction. Obviously Gray is playing a game to get away, having been put in the Shop Window.

He has no respect for Dyche, being more interested in his own ends. He was given a chance at Everton to resurrect his career; he seems to have forgotten that.

Fair enough! And you're right – Dyche doesn't rate Gray.

None of that excuses Gray's behavior! Approach the club, hell, be a man and approach the manager even, and request a transfer privately. Don't jump to Jamaica, refuse to train upon return, and inform the club you've garnered a move away.

In what universe is that good behavior? And in what universe do you want that attitude infecting your team morale like the ebola virus???

Or, here's a really neat idea. Approach the manager privately. Tell him you love the Club, want to stay, and ask him what you personally need to do to garner more playing time?

Or you can go on social media and sling shit around. But if you do, expect pounds of it flung right back atcha!

Gray's actions are deplorable.

Your most important words in your response, Bobby, are, "I wouldn't do it his way...". Exactly why we are where we are.

You do it Gray's way, you'll get what's comin' to ya!

"Yes, I'll have the soft-serve chocolate shit please, with some snot sprinkles on top, in an ear-wax cone. Thank you very much."

That's what you deserve when you handle situations in the manner Gray has. Dessert and happiness ain't on the menu, eat your trash.

We'll never know the full story but Gray's Instagram stunt loses any sympathy I have there.

Demarai Gray wasn't the greatest player ever to wear the shirt, but I'll always remember him sticking that perfect free kick into the box for Dominic Calvert-Lewin to power home and keep us in the Premier League. The lad then collapsed to the floor in relief.

I'm going to watch it one more time before he goes.

Tony, thanks for your very valuable comments.

He's a pretty crap player anyway, 1 good game in 10 and very little end product. Good riddance.

While Everton holds his contract, he's our asset and we decide what we sell him for.

Has his low fee been clubs getting rid of a difficult player? If he refuses to train or play, then he's in breach of contract and shouldn't be paid.

Dyche doesn't show respect? He, Grey, got a bollocking and he's spat the dummy. I'm intrigued about wages. You can't compel a player to be brilliant. You can't even sanction a player for not putting in sufficient effort in a game. It's too complex to measure.

You can dock wages for not training. You can sanction poor effort in fitness training. Actually I've known of players be fined for going to the media.

This is all very unfortunate with the timing because we need numbers. A straight swap for someone of equivalent value and/or ability who's pissed off with their manager would have been good.

Fantasy football is so simple.

Have to back him on this where it seems Gras's been a bit of a dick. Get the money and shift out a bad apple before it spreads. If we finally get a bit of luck with injuries, we won't really miss him. Looking forward to the next match when maybe Calvert-Lewin, Harrison and a fully fit McNeil can help repeat last season's result.

Not arsed about the internationals, I will be in Marseille on Saturday instead!

#DycheOut

Some of the narrative on this thread seems to be along the lines of 'star player gets too big for his boots and tries to force move to bigger club'. It's not that at all.

It's a guy who has pretty much been frozen out because he's not rated by the manager, trying to leave a club which doesn't want him. That's exactly what you'd want him to do, isn't it?

I don't think anyone comes out well in the ensuing war of words.

All the war of words means is that we'll get less money for him, he'll look unprofessional, and we'll look like a shambles in the process. That's not good for anyone involved.

So yes, it's been mismanaged.

And let's not pretend the first jab came from Gray. Dyche, who now says he likes to keep this stuff in house, made statements in his pre match press conference about Gray.

There is absolutely no need for this situation. The player wants to leave. Presumably we have no objection to him leaving because we certainly don't want to play him. Yet we're making statements about his fitness, readiness and 'reintegration' with the side.

It's badly misjudged.

I didn't mean the pressure point as a criticism of Dyche I was just speculating connecting dots (apparently wrongly) based on the few snippets in the public domain.

The club tells us something and we complain that the club has told us something.

Now Gray is crap and has never been any good according to some posts.

Fickle fans or change of manager / playing style?

If you stand next to these players now, they are like finely tuned 5 furlong race horses, so I think it's best just sitting in the stands if we want to criticize them!

I know, Kieran, but I just thought it was the perfect opportunity to try and put the record straight, mate. It's the same with not signing players, because the reality is that any manager would want more players if they happened to be our current manager, and the lack of funds leaving us with one hand tied behind our back, is definitely not down to Dyche.

Given that Dyche doesn't love subs anyway, I suspect that £7-8M more in the bank and more wages cut from the club might be the best way forward.

Good luck to him - he did “okay” for us.

Move on and upwards Everton.

UTFT

Dyche wanted to play McNeil on the left instead of Gray, he wanted to play centre-forwards Maupay and Simms ahead of winger Gray at centre-forward, and wanted to play Iwobi on the right ahead of him.

Gray had a choice when he came back: he could knuckle down and try and prove himself to the manager and be professional… or he could take his bat and ball home and itch for a move.

Once we signed Danjuma, that was somebody else who would probably play ahead of him and he didn't like it.

I'm not sure any Evertonian would think Gray was a star player, 3 good goals in 3 games when you are average at best in the other 30 games does not a star player make.

I really don't understand why any Everton fan would side with a player who downed tools. Especially when the manager he is accusing of having no respect is only ever talked of highly for his man-management by former players. (I'm happy to be proved wrong here; I cant find any criticism online anywhere.)

Does he want to be effective off the bench? Absolutely not.

He believed he was good enough to be a starting player in the Premier League and didn't want to be on the bench. He has agitated for a move and the reality is no-one appeared to want him except Saudi Arabia. When that reality hit home, he has started lashing out.

Again, we have people giving it the "good on Dyche... he tells it how it is".

Anytime someone "tells it how it is", you can pretty much guarantee they're a nob.

If Gray didn't want to train well and sit out, he's wasting an opportunity to show what he can do to prospective buyer or his new club.

The quicker the lad leaves, the better for all concerned.

Many of our squad have not been able to do the same. Let's not forget.

Player power in this modern era is ridiculous and they can't be allowed to take the piss.

Is that you telling it as it is, Ernie? :-)

The one thing I want in an Everton player is somebody who wants to be here and looks like they care. Everton will just be another stepping stone on Demarai Gray's CV. I think Dyche is right to respond. Players have way too much power in the modern game.

The point is, our fans have been crying out for years for the club to provide clarity of things behind the scenes. When someone finally provides clarity for a situation behind the scenes – they're a “nob” for telling it how it is.

Does that make Kenwright less of a nob all these years for not telling it how it is?

Rather than let everyone speculate and draw their own conclusions as to how bad Gray has been treated, Dyche has provided clarity on a situation, a lot more clarity than Gray's comments.

If I remember right, both you & Steve Stone were in the Forest team which for us featured Ebdon & Ebbrell? Was Gary Charles in there with you too? Not sure.

I think that was the same season we played Barnsley in an earlier round which featured Carl Tiler?

Happy Days!

Thanks for sharing your story of you being at Finch Farm yesterday, very few if any of us would ever get the chance to see what goes on and nice you had a talk with Sean Dyche.

I guess you would have been at Forest the same time as Ian Woan. To be very honest, I am more jealous of you in the fact that you were at Forest at the same time as for me the best manager we should have had.

I doubt Gray or his agent would have dared do this when Cloughie was about. I remember just a few years before his death, he was asked how he would deal with players and their agents, regarding wanting to leave or wanting an increase in wages.

Cloughie said to the reporter "Very simple, young man, I would get the player and his agent in my office and get out the contract they both signed. I would then point out how long was left on the contract and get them to agree it was their signatures. Then I would tell them both toFuck Off out of my office."

I think in his interview there was a little bit of that in Sean Dyche's interview. Look, I don't know if long-term Sean Dyche is the answer but he needs time for his signings to bed in.

I think Thelwell getting in Beto is a master stroke, he looks like he has everything you want in a striker big, strong and quick and knows were the net is. He reminds me a little of Lukaku but with more aggression and a better work rate.

What is sad is that it would appear that that £10M is needed simply to service the day-to-day running of the club given the huge debts to service and total lack of cash.

What an absolute mess we are. And it's getting harder and harder to see a clear way out unless Moshiri sells us for a huge personal loss which would seem unlikely.

I think it will get worse before it gets better. Hopefully Dyche and his coaching staff will keep us afloat in the Premier League in the meantime.

Dyche is always referring to the "noise" that surrounds various issues but to most of us fans there is no noise, just deafening silence. Apart, of course from the missleading stuff making our fans look bad.

The communications are few and mostly through Sean's boring pressers. The club should be telling the fans what is really going on, it should not be up to the coach, who is trying to do enough with one arm tied behind his back.

I suspect we would shudder if we knew the truth.

Dyche, irrespective of who does and doesn't like him, speaks plainly and with as much honesty as he is able. He did not appear to be disrespecting Gray, in fact, before Gray's tweet, he was skirting around the subject to give Gray the opportunity to come back without any fan backlash.

We're well rid of a bad apple if he goes today.

We now appear to be signing players who actually want to be here, recognise that a once great club is struggling but want to be part of the solution. Beto, Danjuma and Young show by their body language, effort and attitude that they understand this.

The constant references to Onana's “unhappiness“ which he consistently rebutts shows that he too appears to be up for the fight. We need to back Dyche and let him continue to build a team that we can once again be proud of.

That was some game that one, a proper battle in which we came from behind three times and I can still remember going in the ref's room with my arl school mate, big Eddie Youds, to toss the coin, to see where the second replay was going to be held.

I was absolutely gutted when I won the toss, and I can still remember saying to Eddie, Z"That fuckin' ref fixed that!" and him looking at me as if to say, "Are you fuckin' mad, lad, you're gonna be playing at home in the next game!"

I obviously asked about Gary Charles yesterday because he was my arl roommate in our digs, and they told me he had thankfully been clean for over 13 years now. I couldn't believe he even drank because he was a teetotal when I left Nottingham, but me and Stoney both agreed yesterday that Charlesy was different class, and definitely the best player in our group by some distance (there was some very good players in our squad).

Great memories, Clough was great because he kept everyone's feet on the ground. No big heads, and we are in it together attitude, was how I always felt about my days at Forest, and if Dyche stays long enough then I'm sure this is what he will want to create at Everton. I fuckin' hope so anyway.

In my opinion, Everton should punish Gray for refusing to train, remove him from the squad until he makes a full and public apology, and should never buy a player who downs tools to secure a transfer.

Just get rid of Gray. He's flipping useless anyway.

David was of course the Everton correspondent for the Liverpool Echo for many years, he is married to Dixie Dean's granddaughter, so is steeped in the history of our club. Yet I am struggling to remember any communication from David to the fans.

I can only assume with neither the owner nor the chairman wanting to communicate with the fans, it makes his job virtually redundant, as other than stadium updates I guess the owner and chairman wouldn't allow him to comment on what's really happening at the club.

I just wonder with his journalistic background he may have suggested that Sean Dyche come out and give the club's side of the story regarding Gray?

I'd disagree with you and Stoney who was the best player in that Forest team. Gary Charles was very good and played for England.

I thought Ian Glover upfront was outstanding. Didn't he play for Scotland U23s while still in Forest's youth team? The only thing that kid lacked was luck: injury after injury –that's what stopped him from having a long top-class career.

Reading into the interview and the thread, the manager and his staff are imposing their methodology on the club. Without having met him, he strikes me as straight talking, but pretty composed at the same time. He also seems focussed on the team and knows the cards he has been dealt, so is getting on with it. Maybe not quite ignoring what is going on upstairs, but getting on with what he can effect.

Some great insights and memories Tony.

I didn't quite reach your heights, but I went gracefully, although I did play my final competitive match at Army level at the age of 40. I was an emergency option, but we won 2 - 1!! I don't think I've kicked a ball since then. Not in anger anyway.

My favourite memories, apart from my trials at Everton, were, in no particular order:

Playing a Middlesboro youth team and realising how good some of these lads are, even at a young age.

Playing against a Hajduk Split team in a friendly on the training pitches outside their ground. They had this veteran, over 50 years old on the pitch. My word he could still make space in the middle and spread the ball around. Then they brought on a few youngsters on and they were a different level. Hosted us after the match, taking us into the stadium and onto the pitch. Great experience.

Playing a Swedish league team who were on their summer training camp in Cyprus. Again, a bit of a lesson, although the score was narrow.

Oh, winning the Army Corps league 6 times in 8 seasons and the annual end of season cup tournament 5 times in a row!

Not quite as glamorous, but happy memories of being on a football pitch and playing at a decent standard. The important thing is to enjoy football.

Mike G, which dates are you over?

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He'll tell the player when he can leave but, when a player wants away, what is the point in trying to keep him and especially when you've just signed a couple of players who play in a similar position?

He should just at most have told the player that any move would depend on another club meeting Everton's evaluation rather than making it a matter of who has the biggest.

Great to hear the inside story, Dyche says it straight which is all we can ask for in a manager, great article.

Am I the only person thinking that we should have kept Maupay, now that Gray is on his way out? I think Maupay would have done well buzzing around Beto and picking up the second balls and bringing others into play. Anyway, all we can do is hope and pray that our main players stay healthy.

I think Gray came and told Dyche he had his move arranged by his agent and he was going to whoever it was. He never told Dyche he wanted away, he told him the move was already arranged and he was going.

Dyche kept his gob shut for weeks and made his reply after Gray had his say to the media. Why shouldn't he have a go back? I don't think it's his ego; he's letting Gray know he's not a gobshite and putting his views and the club's in the open – seems fair enough to me.

I remember the moments Barry Horne scored versus Wimbledon and Gareth Farrelly's goal v Coventry and also hours and hours watching them in other games.

I didn't mind Gray, he had his good games, but being honest they were few and far between. I wish we could have used him in an exchange deal before the window closed.

Maybe Dyche and Thelwell tried to use him this way, maybe they didn't; it's no use crying over spilt milk!

I offer my opinions where I'm free to do so, on people who have taken public roles. In my day-to-day life, I'm a bit more considerate.

But I really don't rate Dyche (obviously). I get that he's asked questions... But he just can't stop talking.

Remember when people on here loved him finally calling out Calvert-Lewin? He basically said he was less injured than he thought it was, it was just a mental thing. Within an hour he injured himself for most of the rest of the season. Then Dyche had the nerve to be the expert on how he would return him to fitness... talking at length about reviewing his mattress and every part of his personal life.

This mess with Gray isn't even slightly surprising to me. Dyche is so far out of his depth, desperately trying to prove to anyone who will listen that he's an underrated genius. It comes through in every single stats-laden press conference.

And all the while, Farhad was in the counting-house, counting out his money. He's reclaimed £120M in 8 months. I reckon he'll try and push another heavy hitter out the door in January, and tie up a club sale before the start of next season.

Fire Sale.

Of course we all remember that goal from Calvert-Lewin, but at the time, watching from my seat, it was Richarlison's goal that I remember most fondly, because it was only him in the team that could have scored such a 'scruffy' yet important goal, out of nothing.

Everton V Palace

But Dyche seems to have gone out of his way to speak about the matter on Everton's website which I can't see improving the matter. If Gray went to Dyche saying he had arranged a move away, then Dyche should merely have said that he would relay it to the Director of Football and then asked if in the meantime would he mind joining in at training and if Gray declined then fine him a week's wages which is usually part of a contract.

Instead, we have some sort of a public slanging match which seems to be dictating that this matter will end in a parting of the ways with or without a transfer fee.

In other news, I got the new home shirt today. First time I've bought a new season's shirt since the Rooney season.

I seem to remember we used to play in Royal Blue? What happened??

Characters like that are toxic, especially in a team sport atmosphere, and need to be shipped out ASAP. Great managers like Sir Alex Ferguon have always known that.

Unfortunately it's hard to know what a man is like before you work with him. The club has to back Dyche and if Dyche wants him out, accept it and cut their losses.

We don't want bad apples in our barrel. Character and mentality is at least as important as talent.

Come on — we all want to hear some Cloughie (and or Peter Taylor) stories.
By any chance did Cloughie ever address you by saying "Now then, young man…"?

Now I and others may be grumpy old men (and women) but at a time when you are endeavouring to get your career and life back on track, is it wise to flaunt your wealth and to be dismissive (it seems) of relevant restrictions and simply opt for a penalty paid out of loose change?

A low profile, lots of hard work and a semblance of humility might be a preferable option. It would be terrific to have him back playing at a high level, and maybe he is en route, but little incidents such as this do not inspire confidence.

He could have chosen the £100k Merc instead!!

Yes it's tit for tat: Gray went to the media to express his annoyance at not getting his move. Dyche went to the smaller Everton website to reply after weeks of saying nothing about what was happening; he made his reply after Gray did his moaning,

Alan, are you serious with “Do you mind joining in training while the club considers your transfer”? Come on, Alan he really would be considered a gobshite by all and sundry if he went down that road.

It looks like Gray has got his wish and is on his way – any bets that he lasts the 4-year deal?

Or he could just have gotten gotten a taxi.

I wonder if, come January, we will hear that Gray is lining up his next unsanctioned transfer?

If Dyche didn't want him to leave, then wouldn't he want him to be fit enough to be considered for selection as he thought that he would be part of the decision to let Gray leave or not?

And I never said he should use those words but certainly make clear his intention to consider him for selection until the matter is resolved.

There is an argument that Dyche talks too much, but there is also a counter-argument that says thank god someone at the club is actually talking to the fans right now.

It's obviously no surprise that Demarai Gray is now going to be leaving Everton, but if a manager is now out of his depth for choosing to defend himself over someone he believes has used social media to perpetrate lies, then I genuinely think that this must have more to do with a person's preconceived views.

I don't see it as a public slanging match, but more like a manager defending himself from what he considered to be a very strange statement and something he probably doesn't believe the player could genuinely back up.

Dyche told me he believes we have some very good players, so I just hope that these players remain fit, because once again Everton's squad is really, really (staggeringly) short on the numbers you would expect, for a “supposedly” top-level professional football club.

Using social media to air his grievances, instead of knocking on Dyche's door and having a one-to-one clear the air conversation or argument, then agree to agree or disagree if necessary.

But no, he hasn't got the bottle to challenge Dyche, and downs tools (if that's true), refusing to train. A talent wasted by a player who thinks he's bigger than the club, so goodbye Demarai, what's the bet he won't see out his contract in Saudi?

A similar situation with Gnonto who IMO was badly advised in the way he conducted himself at Leeds; however, I've no doubt we will have another go at getting him in the January window, providing we're not struggling at the bottom again, especially if the October findings are adverse in our direction!

Reading your sentence, then this is exactly why Dyche fined Demari Gray. He was told by the player that he wasn't going to be training because he had already sorted out his move to Fulham.

"You still need to be fit, Demarai, and because nothing has been finalized. then I suggest you go downstairs get changed and do what we pay you for, especially because I have already given you an extended two-week break.

"If you don't then I will have no option but to fine you a week's wages, and whilst we are here, don't forget that you are still an Everton player, and will remain an Everton player until a bid has been accepted by the club."

The player chose the fine, and then went on social media claiming that the manager had disrespected him. I'm actually sorry I even wrote about this matter now especially because it's got nothing to do with me!

Very impressed by the interview and his honesty about "Badge, People and the Club" which is very refreshing. It makes me think he gets it.

The more I read about this farrago, the more I respect Dyche.

To join you off-point, I'm fed up with super entitled folk in supercars parking wherever they want and getting a trivial piece of yellow paper which means absolutely nothing to them.

At least 1 maybe 2 points on their licence for arrogant parking may go some way to prevent or reduce this abhorrent behaviour.

If I had a similar wage and a similar car, I would probably behave the same because there's no incentive not to, apart from being decent!

Which I'm probably not.

And by the way, if we're on this list and facing possible P&S sanction, then how the hell are Forest and Bournemouth going to get off scot-free, especially Forest who've only had one season in the Premier League (and the TV money)? Buying 40+ players must have hit their wage bill, surely.

We have been ran like a shitshow, our losses were at £300M+ when the limit was like £105M or something (exact number not sure of), it's clear the club is assett stripping in a massive attempt to post a profit for this financial year and present that to the P&S independent commission when the hearing occurs in October.

We've attempted to write off a huge sum due to 'covid losses' – far more than other clubs accounted for. It's no witch-hunt against our club, it's just chickens coming home to roost after the absolutely dreadful management of the club.

To just down tools and say "I've sorted a move" is unprofessional, disrespectful and just arrogant.

You can't just sell players when they get a big wage offer, as Dyche said – it's got to be right for the club. Right money, right timing etc.

Good riddance. He still will run down blind alleys and hold on to the ball too long, try too many tricks against Saudi teams. I liked him but this just sours everything!!

Demarai who???

With Gray's transfer fee, that will be £188 million from sales in the last 12 months and £40 million quid off the wage bill.

I wonder where it is all stashed as the only fee we will spend this year is the €3 million loan fee for Danjuma?

And Ray #149 touches on the fact that we adopted, either knowingly or otherwise, a serial “disrupter” who's got history of this type of thing, having been shown the door by all his previous clubs in similar recriminatory fashion.

He classes himself as a professional, but other than being rewarded (extravagantly) for his contribution, that's where the definition of 'professionalism' ends in respect of this individual.

It's not just Sean Dyche who's questioned this particular individual's professionalism abd attitude. Because, from Day 1 under Dyche, there have been murmurings coming out of Finch Farm from some of the more professional members and ex-members of our squad on his general attitude in training.

I think we all questioned the basic fitness of our squad pre-Dyche and, on his arrival, so did he. Consequently, he went back to basics, and among other fitness indicators conducted “bleep” tests.

It was at this point that murmurings started to emerge with hints from other squad members, that this particular individual had vocally suggested it was beneath him & amounted to “dissing” him. So, it would seem this is the start of his relationship with Sean Dyche, and I would suggest there are few among us who would support his feelings of disrespect.

Like him or loath him, Dyche is our manager and, although the are those among his contemporaries who may not subscribe to his style or methods, he always conducts himself in a professional manner, and quite rightly expects the same from his staff.

I've yet to come across anyone who doesn't respect him. Which is more than can be said for a certain Demarai Gray and his social media antics.

Part of our problem is that we've had too many primadonnas of his like, and the sooner we clear the decks of them, and our recruitment criteria starts to include players with a grown-up professional attitude to their profession, the sooner we'll start to turn things around.

I seem to remember the same posts on here about McNeil for months, then suddenly he's the Player of the Season!

Let's have a bit of perspective here. Gray, for less than £2M, has stood out above players 10 times that amount at times, and I can't have any qualms about his contribution to Everton. But when he's frozen out by a new manager, and at 27 needs to know his future, the shocking state of finances at this club has him waiting until 11 pm on deadline day to know where he is going to be playing in future, ie, if the club get someone in, then he's going, as they need the money.

Is this the way to treat a player who has contributed towards saving us from relegation, and been messed about under 3 different managers?

And yes, I detest all this 'player power' crap, and don't agree with him posting on social media, but it seems to me that, for someone who cost us almost nothing, he's been treated rather badly since Dyche arrived.

He should have been told months earlier that he had no future here, so a move could be arranged for July, but thanks to the tory lump of shite who has destroyed our club, poor Dyche has been painted into a corner, and made to see who we could get first.

The problem goes much deeper than player and manager, the seeds for this were sown 30 years ago – Kenwright Out!

You can see that they are trying to fester a spirit within the group, and although I'm not sure if they eat together as a group after training every day (a thought that came into my mind, but a question I forgot to ask), but it was calm and I got the feeling that everyone respected the people I was sitting with.

Players coming up to the manager and coaches and shaking hands, definitely never happened when Brian Clough was around because it was better trying to get out the door before he noticed, unless you didn't mind being called a little shithouse. How times have changed!

Demo-economic analysis of player transfers (2014-2023) — CIES Football Observatory Monthly Report N° 87 – September 2023

Tony - I'm sure you've experienced it first-hand and also seen Mark Crossley's Clough stories and impersonations. Cracks me up. Shithouse. The Dean Saunders story is also brilliant and involves The Dome Mk 1.

Under the Cosh

Come on, mate!! Is this how we treat a player? Paying him £££££ thousands a week? From Dyche's comments, it seems Gray is the one who froze himself out!!

We are Everton!! We still have some standards!!

Stop worrying about how we are treating players, and worry about how they are treating us!!! We've been rinsed by players and agents over the last 5 years or so.

Gray can't dictate when he wants to play, or train, or move, to the manager, whoever that manager maybe. What's that say to every other Saudi with fat wallet? What's it say to every player in our squad?

Just don't turn up, don't try, don't train and I'll get my move!!

Players commit to contracts, they are okay taking the wages, like Gomes, Gbamin, Ramirez, Bolasie etc, etc. When the tables turn they go on Instagram and winge.

I don't see Gomes on Instagram saying how sad he is picking up £100k a week?

Players like Gray are trouble, his influence has probably infected others. Dyche saw right through him from Day 1…

Demarai who?????