05/09/2023 164comments  |  Jump to last

Sean Dyche has offered his perspective on the situation regarding Demarai Gray which moved into the public domain over the weekend following a post by the player on Instagram.

Gray had taken to the social media platform to express his frustration at not getting a move away from Everton this summer, with two proposed transfers to the Saudi Pro League falling through after initial links with Fulham and Crystal Palace failed to bear fruit.

In an Instagram message that was subsequently removed along with all other images relating to his two years at Goodison Park, Gray suggested that while Everton's fans have always been great with him, it is difficult to play for someone (i.e. Dyche) who doesn't "show you respect".

Gray was hoping to complete a move to Al Ettifaq this week before the Saudi transfer window closed after a £12m switch to Al Shabab didn't come off last month but Everton, having sold Alex Iwobi and Tom Cannon on deadline day while also letting Neal Maupay go to Brentford on loan, blocked the move.

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Dyche told reporters on Saturday that he now expected Gray to stay with the Toffees and be integrated back into the squad so he could build his fitness but with the relationship between player and coach perhaps irreparable, it seems as though the deal with Al Ettifaq could yet go through.

Fabrizio Romano has tweeted today that an agreement is close between the clubs on a deal believed to be around £7m while Gray has agreed terms on a four-year deal.

Meanwhile, In the wake of the player's social media post, the manager has now felt the need to clarify the club's stance.

"It’s an unfortunate one because I try to keep our business side of what we do in-house,” Dyche said in an interview on evertonfc.com, "but the players sometimes make their thoughts known in situations, whoever that's to. I think on this occasion, it's right to reply. 

“Demarai made it clear that he felt he was getting a move and he told us a move was done which was interesting to hear from a player. We reminded him of the truth of the fact that no one moves without this club’s say so. That's the truth of it.

“We look after these players; we look at all the different ways of looking after them. Mental and well-being is big, the tactics and technical, the physical. We look at all of that for all these players, and we look after them.

“When it comes to a time like that, then you go, ‘Well, hang on a minute. You made it clear you didn't want to train, you didn't want to be here, and you also said there was a move that, apparently, was a done deal.’

“We said, ’It’s not a done deal because this club is the most important.’ This club will make decisions on the future of you as players and not the other way around. I think it's right to let our fans know that's the truth of this football club.”


Reader Comments (164)

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Mark Andersson
1 Posted 05/09/2023 at 18:58:27
Just another embarrassing episode that typifies what's wrong with this club...
Kevin Molloy
2 Posted 05/09/2023 at 18:58:32
Well, that's that then. Boats well and truly burnt. Off he goes to Saudi for a song.
Mark Andersson
3 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:02:00
What song is that Kevin?? You'll Never Walk Alone
Christine Foster
4 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:03:00
Funny thing truth, it always has two sides.

Lacking from the above is the reason for Gray downing tools in the first place, something must have been said for the fallout to be thus.

I guess if it's a Saudi club then he will be gone. If it isn't, then Dyche should have said nothing and sought to repair the damage done.

Dave Abrahams
5 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:03:16
Well, I'll listen to that, Gray has told his version of what happened and Dyche has responded with his version.

Let's be honest, he's an Everton player until he's sold and if he wants to go to another club he would surely want to be fit and ready to play for them.

Until he goes or stays, Everton are paying his wages, you can't let the tail wag the dog.

Kevin Molloy
6 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:06:58
Mark no doubt the club offering £250m for Salah will be playing ruthless hardball with us, we'll probably end up paying them.
Mark Andersson
7 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:07:04
Only in football can this nonsense happen…
Dale Self
8 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:08:46
‘Well, hang on a minute. You made it clear you didn't want to train, you didn't want to be here, and you also said there was a move that was a done deal.'

While not a direct quote, that is calling Gray out for an unjustified position. I do not understand what else anyone would want Dyche to do in the interest of the club.

But do make something up and start on that please because there is square root of fuck all to complain about here.

Paul Heron
9 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:12:06
I like Damarai Gray. He's a great impact player for us.

But we need to change the culture at the club. If you join us, you don't dictate to the club what is happening.

On the face of it, and what's been aired, I support Sean Dyche in this instance.

Brendan Fox
10 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:15:59
As is always the case, two sides to every story, firstly we heard Demari advising he was owed respect but in a veiled way.

Sean Dyche has matter-of-factly stated quite clearly that it is the club that calls the shots and not the player.

The way this pans out is Demarai winds his neck in, trains hard, and commits to the club or he rots in the reserves; the decision is his...

Anyone siding with Demarai needs to take their head out of their arse, the players can never be allowed to call the shots.

Christine Foster
11 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:18:57
Dale, no-one has made anything up. But what was said or done to Gray to take the stance in the first place? What we are watching is the end game being played out. Not how we got there.

Does it matter? Well, it explains our pursuit of a wide player, because Dyche either didn't like Gray or Gray saw it as a snub... Either way, he is toast.

Kieran Kinsella
12 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:20:11
I wonder if Dyche is feeling the pressure a little here. Last week, he was talking about how he thought fans would be more understanding the financial issues around new signings. Now he is responding publicly to Gray's petulant social media post.

It doesn't convey an image of someone in charge who feels secure in his job, rather someone who seems like he is engaged in finger-pointing as he doesn't want to take the blame.

I would have preferred a response like "Demarai is an Everton player, like the rest of us, he will spend the next few weeks working hard so he can help us move forward. End of."

Chris Leyland
13 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:21:51
I'm with Dyche – sick of players signing contracts and then dictating where they move to and when.

I've always liked Gray and I think he adds something different to the squad but Dyche is right.

Brian Harrison
14 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:22:20
We can't criticize Dyche for not letting a player dictate to a club, but I can't understand why Everton would block the transfer.

The position is now irretrievable for both Dyche and Gray so we should be doing everything we can to get him out of the door, not preventing a sale.

Gavin Johnson
15 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:25:15
On Dyche addressing Gray's social media on the Everton TV interview, I think he came across well.

Sounds like the club were very accommodating towards Gray in the original Saudi move, that fell through.

This other club are offering £7M (according to reports) which is £5M less than the offer from the first club, so it's no surprise that Everton have said no to Gray.

I wouldn't be surprised if he still ends up going, but it will be for between £10-12M.

I see Lingard is still out of contract. Would anyone take him for 12 months if he accepted greatly reduced wages?

Mike Doyle
16 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:25:46
At least Sean Dyche has come out and said something. He seems to be the only person in the hierarchy prepared to speak publicly on any subject. I suspect Sir Alex may have said something similar.

On the subject of club spokesperson(s), is Dave Prentice still at the club – if so, what does he actually do?

Kevin Molloy
17 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:26:53
Obviously Dyche can make a good play here that he is in the right. But top-level coaches never get to this position. They finesse the situation.

Dyche has form for treating other players in a somewhat ruthless fashion, it's not just Demarai. And as has been commented upon, we need all hands on deck at the moment. He gets paid good money to handle these entitled millionaires with a little more skill than this.

Kieran Kinsella
18 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:27:11

I agree but I just don't think Sean should have kept the public back and forth going because, as of now, Gray is here with no suitable offer on the table.

We may well need him before Christmas, in which case, what kind of reaction can he expect from the crowd if he doesn't immediately dazzle?

I don't think it does morale good when you have a player who is seemingly being forced to play for the club. But if we get a last-ditch bid, then it makes Dyche look weak as he has already said the club don't want him going.

If he stays and remains in exile, then it makes us and him look stupid for wasting money on wages (us) and wasting a career (him). If he does stay and plays, he is one mislaid pass away from the boo boys claiming he isn't trying.

I would have just tried damage limitation, keep it under wraps, and not been drawn into childish social media back and forth. It never ends well. Look at Sancho, for example?

Barry Hesketh
19 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:32:28
I think Gray will be sold and Dyche has made it clear that it's a club decision and not the player's.
Dale Self
20 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:33:13
Christine 11,

I assume this alludes to a discussion about Gray's role and playing time. This indeed could be a hangover issue from last season that Dyche may not have treated sensitively. I will just give that and say that he was dealing with Calvert-Lewin as well and just got us over the line.

To say Gray never had a chance to prove himself before this season's training is not credible. He may have had a high bar for this season set for him and decided to make Jamaica his showcase for an exit and just ended up talking too much. We don't know and likely won't but, at this point, there is a preponderance of doubt falling on Gray's account of this matter.

My comment on making stuff up should have been generalized for overall Dyche complaint sessions so I apologize sincerely that you took that as a reference to you.

And Christin,e as example for the creativity mentioned above, I offer this:

Kevin 17 “But top-level coaches never get to this position.”

Dave Abrahams
21 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:38:45
Christine (11),

Well go back to the beginning, it seems to me that when it was time, after the pre-season and Demarai had come back from his stint with Jamaica and an extra 2 weeks off, he told Dyche that he had a done deal with Fulham, Crystal Palace or elsewhere, and had refused to train.

It was then, not now when Dyche made it plain he was still an Everton player until he was told different. This happened weeks ago, not today. Dyche is only reporting what happened weeks ago in response to Gray's recent version of what happened.

Brendan Fox
22 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:39:21
Anyone who doesn't understand the statement from Sean Dyche needs to read and re-read what he said so you understand what the club's stance is.

As plain as day, Dyche is stating to Demarai Gray, his agent and any other Everton player, it is the club that will decide when a player is sold.

Anyone who thinks this is a bad thing to do… have a word with yourself.

Alan Corken
23 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:42:29
Dyche was unwise getting into a slanging match with a player, as it simply adds to the crisis feeling at the club.

Gray was of course, also stupid for making his grievance public, but a manager with Dyche's experience is the one who really should know better.

It is fairly obvious Gray is frustrated at not getting away and I am not surprised that he wants the move given that he is somewhat down the pecking order for the left wing spot.

Whatever the case, it is a sorry spectacle when the relationship between one of our more effective players and our manager has become so broken that they feel the need to engage in such a public quarrel. I only hope this is not an indication of a deeper malaise in the changing room.

Tony Abrahams
24 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:43:15
I've actually spent a hour in Sean Dyche's company today at Finch Farm, Kieran, and I don't think it's pressure he's feeling.

It's more that the reality of the situation sometimes needs to be explained, especially when a player just downs tools after being given an extended holiday, and then has the temerity to talk about a lack of respect, because he thinks he has agreed to sign for another football club. He obviously hasn't liked being told a few home truths from the manager of the club that he his still contracted to.

Dyche, told me that Thelwell has done an incredible job with such limited resources and he wants to stay at Everton for as long as possible because he believes it's a great club which has just lost its way over the last few years.

Once he gets everyone fit (if only), he believes we can surprise a few people this season, because he has got some very good players in his squad.

I obviously hope this ends up happening because it was good to bump into a few old mates today, and seeing that they haven't changed in the slightest. 🙏

Baz Daly
25 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:46:14
Once Iwobi went, there needed to be two in the door... none arrived, so Gray stays. He doesn't have to like it but that's how it is...

Demarai Gray is 27 – not 16.

And also let that Saudi team weaken Wolves, they're lining up Podence or Sarabia instead... We might need it!

Jimmy Carr
26 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:48:44
Don't blame Sean Dyche for saying something, he has a right to defend himself. I'm more concerned that this is all we've got to talk about before the next game!
Bill Fairfield
27 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:49:00
Well if he's not gone by Thursday, he'll be getting paid for nothing till January.

A disaffected player… that's all we need.

Alex Gray
28 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:53:59
First things first, the interview from Dyche is a breath of fresh air and hopefully this sort of video becomes a regular feature and is very much positive in terms of communication. From talking about each signing individually to a look behind the scenes of the last few months. It doesn't give all the answers we want but it's very much a step in the right direction.

Regarding Gray, it's said that he refused to train and wanted off and actually came to the club saying the deal is done without the club giving any form of go-ahead. The club have said "You're going on our terms, not yours," and then the lad has gone to social media to cause trouble.

A shame but in reality Danjuma has already matched Gray's non-penalty goals from last season after starting 3 games. Danjuma, McNeil and Harrison will score goals and create a fair few chances between them. If we can get to January without any injuries to them then another winger can be looked at.

The interview as a whole is worth watching and, as much as some on here aren't Dyche's biggest fan (myself included at times), what I will say is that he doesn't hide from communication as a lot of others in the club do. He talks about how he has a lot to prove and knows we haven't got a win in the league yet.

One thing I'm confident of is that Gray will not play for us again. He's deleted everything Everton-related off his social media and has handled this poorly.

Dale Self
29 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:54:00
Nice Tony 24, very nice.

I just came back to say how shocking it is to see good working-class people of England trying to give Al and his buddy the other Al a discount by taking up for Gray.

David Bromwell
30 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:54:24
I think team spirit and morale are very important and public exchanges of this sort are not helpful.

Dyche and his backroom staff all played for Brian Clough, and I often considered his public statements ill-advised, but as far as I know, players always respected him and enjoyed playing for his teams. We could all do with a little of the Clough manic right now.

Christine Foster
31 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:55:35
Dave you could well be right, if the timing played out that way, but Gray's remarks were not directed at the club but Dyche specifically. Probably Dyche explained the situation back to Gray in a more forthright northern manner.

Dale, no need to apologize, speculation often leads to nowhere fast... the missing link in this episode is how we got here, not that it matters now. Club comes first.

Dave Williams
32 Posted 05/09/2023 at 19:59:56
Tony, quality post, mate!

Dyche can turn us around if given time by us and the absent ones. There is no one better suited to this and he is showing he will get rid of primadonnas or under-performers supported by the excellent Thelwell.

As supporters, we have to accept that we are no longer dining on the top table and the only way back is hard work and development of players, not chucking stupid sums at players who were half-decent a few years ago.

More power to you Sean!

Alastair Donaldson
33 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:01:16
Gray's shot himself in the foot, not good for a footballer! If he's got any sense, he'll take the lesson and buckle down, earn a move if he wants one.

Seems to me he lacks direction, perspective and is just looking for the easy route to a big payday.

Shame because he is half-decent.

Alex Gray
34 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:05:27
ps: That's a great post, Tony.

How did you find talking to Dyche?

Tony Abrahams
35 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:10:46
I know football has changed and the players have a lot more power nowadays, but imagine your manager having to beg you to train, Christine? He would immediately lose the respect of every single person inside the football club, and does anyone genuinely want a manager that hasn't got a strong personality?

Everton Football Club has been built on many things but, even when we have lost our pragmatism out on the pitch, the people on the terraces have managed to produce it in spades.

How does that song go again…..? "We will fight, fight, fight, with all our might, for the boys in the royal blue jerseys."

Andrew Bentley
36 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:19:45
Fabrizio just posted that Gray to Al Ettifaq is now advancing. Could be Gray or his agent to try and push the move through but I can't see him being here after Thursday.

Having an extra body who doesn't want to be here will be negative on the squad so get him gone.

Christine Foster
37 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:24:28
Tony, spot on... I can't see him begging anyone to train and he shouldn't. Sounds as if the player believed his own hype and showed arrogance instead of pragmatism and got it back in spades!

Glad you got to spend time with mates, bet that was a real buzz! Circumstances often change but people rarely do. They are a nuts-and-bolts management team, no airs and graces, exactly what we need to get through this bad patch.

At this particular point in time, we need a team who can graft for each other, that's what Dyche and his team is fashioning, we are going to be okay.

Grant Rorrison
38 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:25:20
Two irrelevant people. Neither of them are going to be here come January.
Iakovos Iasonidis
39 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:27:37
It was well known that Gray refused to train weeks ago but some people didn't want to believe it...

Well, it seems it was the truth. Gray will be gone and we will be more thin than ever. Only available wingers are McNeil, Danjuma and Harrison when fit. The squad is paper thin all over.

This wasn't a good transfer window and if we didn't buy Beto it would be one of the worst. I really hope players will stay healthy this season.

Jay Harris
40 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:28:04
Great post, Tony, and much as though I like Demarai Gray for his ability and goalscoring, I back the manager 100% for his honesty and forthrightness.

He clearly said that he normally would keep these issues in house but, as Gray went public, he felt obliged to set the story straight.

You cannot have the tail wagging the dog, which has been too prevalent since Kenwright took over.

Mike Gaynes
41 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:29:17
Tony #24, thanks very much for an outstanding news report. Bears out what I thought and hoped would be the case. My respect for Dyche and Thelwell continues to grow.

And thank you with all my heart for that other thing. Looking forward to thanking you and your dad in person when I get there.

Jim Bennings
42 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:32:01
Just get his move to the Kingdom of Beheadings gone and get as much as you can for him.

This is Demarai Gray not Cristiano Ronaldo for Christ sake.

Can't be having players dictating the way here.

Julian Wait
43 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:52:00
@Gavin #1t5 - re. Lingard, if he fits what Dyche needs for whatever system(s) he wants to play, I'd take Lingard on a fair wage.
Eddie Dunn
44 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:54:15
I recall thinking that Gray was dropped for a while last season and when he returned he looked like he had a face like the proverbial smacked arse.

I am with Dyche 100%. Even in these days of overpaid average players, we have to back our manager. Gray can hop it to the journo butchers.

Tony Abrahams
45 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:55:10
No airs and graces in a nutshell, Christine, you know how it goes with old friends!

It was going well until I happened to mention Bill Kenwright, Alex, although anyone listening to us speak, would have found it hard to believe we hadn't really spoken in 35 years.

I've spoken to Dyche twice, during that time, but it's the first time I had seen my old midfield partner, Steve Stone, since I left Forest, so I had to congratulate him on the career he had, before we started where we left off all those years ago.

I don't know Ian Woan as much, although he his also very easy to talk to, and comes across as an absolute gentleman, who told me he is absolutely delighted to be at Everton.

I thanked them all for helping to keep us up, and told them I personally didn't think that they have been given anywhere near enough credit, but they all said the future is the most important thing, especially the manager, who comes across as someone who just really wants to succeed.

We will see, it made me want to start going the match again, but then I saw a text from Rob Halligan, just checking that Mike Gaynes was still alright for those tickets when he comes over… 😂😂 I suppose you'd better thank Bill Kenwright, Mike! 👍

I've just seen that post @41now Mike, and the pleasure is all mine, mate.

Tony Everan
46 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:55:11
Tony, thanks for that inside report, I bet he's buzzing with Beto, a Dyche type player, and then some!, also the quality of Danjuma and Harrison. Thelwell has worked a bit of magic giving him some great forward options with McNeil and Calvert-Lewin coming back,

Gray's become a distraction and, the sooner he is sold, the better for all concerned. In our situation, we need unity – not mutiny.

Gavin, Re Jesse Lingard, I can't see it, I think we will go with what we have got now and maybe get one or two reinforcements in January.

Brent Stephens
47 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:55:40
Tony #24. Great post.

Grant #38… I bet Dyche is still here January.

Alex Gray
48 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:58:09
Thanks for that, Tony!

Great bit of insight there, mate!

Ernie Baywood
49 Posted 05/09/2023 at 20:59:00
Dyche's version of events starts in about July. And it's hard to defend Gray's conduct in that period. But go back to February and you've got the full picture.

No way back for Demarai now. But he might argue there already wasn't one and he needed to force a move.

It's not like he was considered a starter. Dyche was picking Maupay and Simms ahead of him.

Consider that this isn't a regular deciding that he wants to move to a bigger club and going on strike. And it's not an out-of-favour player deciding to wait out a great contract and not bother training.

It's a player who isn't going to be played, deciding that he'll have to make a move. And the club seem to have taken umbrage at that.

Sean Kelly
50 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:05:17
Dyche is the boss and it is his and the club's call – not Gray's.

He gets a decent crust every week and, as part of that deal, he must give 100% commitment to the team and club. He downed tools and he must ask how Fulham and the first Arab club did not proceed. Did they know something that us supporters didn't?

Stick him in the stiffs and tell him to train at 8pm at Finch Farm when everyone is gone. Glad to see some on here saying the tail doesn't wag the dog. That was one of my old man's often-used sayings.

Can't blame the lad for wanting a bigger wage but, for fuck's sake, earn what you are getting first. Disrespectful sod. Well in, Sean Dyche.

Kevin Edward
51 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:06:18
I can't help thinking that it's time some of these players started to have a little more respect for their clubs.

Of course they want all the rewards, but they can't be allowed to enter into agreements with agents or other clubs without the owner club's permission.

As for Demarai, he should be moved on. Then he can show us what we are missing out on, or reside in the ‘could have been good but wasn't' file along with all the others.

Sean Kelly
52 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:08:20
ps: We have had enough of these mercenaries stealing a living off Everton. Gray, Gbamin, Moise Kean and even Gomes.

Good riddance!

Brian Williams
53 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:08:38
Ernie #49.

I was wondering when someone would row against the tide and be the one that shifts the responsibility for this onto the club.

You're the one.

Jamie Crowley
54 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:13:55
This is not embarrassing. At least from an American perspective. There are player and coach falling outs all the time.

I'm 100% Team Dyche on this one.

Sell Gray, and do it post-haste. The last thing this team needs is locker-room drama.

He's going to Saudi Arabia. They're overpaying for the kit man, for fuck's sake! He's a treasure hunter and not a team player now in my opinion.

I'd make him train with the U18s while he awaits his move.

Players who "power move" a club can do one. Players are rich, and if you act the spoiled brat, just fuck right off somewhere else. Dyche is completely justified; were I him, I'd never put up with this level of shit, and I hope Gray doesn't see the light of day ever again in an Everton uniform.

Mike Doyle
55 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:18:40
Tony #45,

Being another Forest old boy yourself, any chance of you getting a coaching role at the club?

Then we could get some genuine ITK info on TW!

Bobby Mallon
56 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:20:46
Jamie 54,

It could have been done so much better. All Dyche had to do was say,

"Demarai, give this team every ounce of 100% in all the games upto the international break and you can fuck off to Saudi with my blessings."

But no, we have a war of words we could do without. Manage the players like a good manager should.

Duncan McDine
57 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:21:48
This is exactly why I'm glad that we didn't pay daft money for Gnonto. Refusing to train whilst being paid silly money is the kind of behaviour that we could do without...

I just hope the Arabs are willing to take this petulant character off our hands.

Peter Moore
58 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:23:37
Well done, Mr Dyche.

We obviously could do with as much Saudi oil money thrown at us as possible, but I won't hold my breath. Gray throwing his toys out of his pram has not helped, has it?

Jamie Crowley
59 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:26:36

No. The player unilaterally went out and tried to force a move. Dyche has every single right, when approached in the fashion he was, to inform the player, "Not so fast there, you ungrateful little dick. We'll trade you when we want to, you signed a contract."

Gray's attitude is what created this, and he deserves every bit of shit tossed his way. His approach to this whole affair was shitty.

Bring on the war of words. There'll be no doubt who's in charge of Everton – Sean Dyche. Any players coming in will need to play hard for the team and in his way. They have this example to illustrate what will happen if they go all spoiled, Johnny-Big-Britches on the manager. And that's not a bad thing. When the inmates run the asylum, you get anarchy – something we can not afford at this moment.

Sorry, I don't see it your way in the least.

Peter Moore
60 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:28:43
Tony, it was really great to read your thoughts on our first team management team, from your personal insights. Thanks for sharing that encouraging info.

They all come across as genuine and good in my opinion, passionate to get Everton upwardly mobile. They deserve to succeed.

Up The Toffees 💙

James Flynn
61 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:28:53
Tempest in a thimble.

Tough titty for Gray.

He's not even that good.

Brendan McLaughlin
62 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:30:45
A refreshingly largely supportive thread in favour of Sean Dyche.

And when you read Tony A's contributions... well deserved support methinks!

Barry Rathbone
63 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:32:16
If one thing is needed here, it's a coach who tells players Everton come first, second and third in all relating to their employment. Thinking otherwise must lead to a falling out.

You can't hide these things, particularly if a player is acting the tool by having a pop on social media. Dyche had no choice he had to put the other side of the story given fans delight at blaming the coach for anything and everything these days.

And if the player doesn't shape up, nothing wrong in offering him "out" to resolve matters – there can only be one boss.

Tony Abrahams
64 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:41:13
The only reason I posted was because, after speaking to Dyche, I don't believe he his feeling any pressure, Mike D, (something Kieran suggested) and after listening to him speak, it was obvious that he felt we should have had more points on the board than we currently have.

It goes back to my gripe with the football club in general, because it's not the first time Everton have started the season without a recognized centre-forward, but I suppose it's not easy learning from your past mistakes when you haven't got any real money to spend.

Another thing I suppose I learned is how much being a professional footballer takes out of the body, because they said they can't even take part in staff matches these days, except for Woan, who probably had more natural talent and never had to run that much anyway!

Jamie Crowley
65 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:42:58
Personal note.

I've been having lots of conversations with my sons and my wife the last 2-3 years about truth. Truth is, in my opinion, the standard bearer for Decency and Good.

You see a lot of people in and around current world events the last few years seeking out the truth. Facts behind decisions. Transparency behind policy. Statistics around subjects of import.

You conversely see a hell of a lot of people, politicians, companies, media, etc., not overly interested in the truth but rather an agenda. They often twist narratives to their benefit, twist facts, and engage in crafty half-truths and sometimes outright lies.

The truth-seekers are good. The twisters are evil. Period, end of.

Sean Dyche is an honest man. I don't even think he knows how to lie. He'll tell you exactly what happened, his perspective, straight forwardly, and without any bending of facts or any attempt to twist narratives. He's been so ridiculously honest with the state of affairs at Everton that sometimes it's shocking.

Sean Dyche is a good man. Simple as. I've liked him and his approach the day he arrived. No bullshit, this is how it is, this is what we need to do. He never shirks from a question, and he answers everything as honestly as he is capable.

He's a breath of fresh air in an environment full of weasels and liars. Truth is his approach and mantra. That's good enough for me.

Andrew Bentley
66 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:52:26
"The badge, the club, the people."

Someone needs to tell Kenwright and Moshiri that this is the priority!

Ben King
67 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:58:23
Good work Dyche. But to be clear: Gray has got what he wanted: he wanted a move and will get it. Player power has won. Again.

I really hope we can help the manager out with 1-2 really good free signings. We lack depth and with all the wages freed up then we must have some manoeuvrability.

Alas I fear not… which means we'll be crossing our fingers every week for no fresh injuries.

Paul Birmingham
68 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:58:26
The old cliche, the club comes first and no player is bigger than the club, for me stands.

I like Demarai Gray, he's scored some great goals for Everton. But in terms of end product and consistency, then, I'd say he hasn't delivered.

People can counter saying the whole Everton squad has been dysfunctional over the last 2 years but fair play to Sean Dyche and his team for keeping Everton up last season and changing the mentality from being weak and spineless to being a team that cares.

Yep, Villa away this season was a very bad day.

Interesting seeing the views of Leicester fans when he was on course to go to Germany in 2021. It's almost the same narrative as he put out on Sunday.

Andy Crooks
69 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:58:38
Great stuff, Tony. I know you've always had a lot of time for Sean Dyche and was glad when we appointed him.

Whatever you do, mate, don't ever mention ToffeeWeb to him!!!

Martin Kidman
70 Posted 05/09/2023 at 21:58:47
I don't buy into the "Woe is me, I'm not respected" crap. He's lazy, he fell out of favour, thinks he's better than he is, and isn't built of the right stuff.

I also don't believe the "I've always enjoyed playing for the Everton fans" either. I think he hates it here and has no affinity with Everton fans or scousers but won't admit it because he knows if he said anything, that would cause a shit storm.

He thought the manager wouldn't say anything and everyone would feel sorry for the poor little thing, but I back Dyche. Move him on, he's a bad apple.

Alec Gaston
71 Posted 05/09/2023 at 22:01:59
Well said, Sean Dyche, 100% behind the club and manager – important step to lay down the marker to current and future players and set the right culture.

My view is that Gray is a disruptor – similar issues as he had at Leicester – so I'm happy for him to go but on our terms.

Tony Abrahams
72 Posted 05/09/2023 at 22:08:34
I actually wanted to mention ToffeeWeb because I believe Lyndon to be a lot more decent and level-headed than a lot of people who write about Everton, Andy.

He could probably do a lot worse than have someone like Mr ToffeeWeb to speak to when he needs to get certain things off his chest.

I suppose it's called trying to help old friends, and Dyche definitely needs help trying to manage a football club that has seemingly lost its way both on and off the pitch.

Phil Bickerstaff
73 Posted 05/09/2023 at 22:11:50
Gray needs to move on. You can't have player power at our club.

What is the point of keeping him as he doesn't want to play for us? There will always be a replacement?

Bobby Mallon
74 Posted 05/09/2023 at 22:16:20
Jamie 59.

Dyche played him 3 times since January when he became manager. We won two, drew one I think. Preferring Maupay as his striker, for fuck's sake!

Don't tell me Gray was lazy then and not fit as he was sub most other times and never got a game. Dyche, like all managers, has his favourites. Demarai isn't one of them – that's obvious.

If I was in his shoes, I would want to go as well. I wouldn't do it his way; I would have handed in a transfer request.

Jerome Shields
75 Posted 05/09/2023 at 22:24:22
As Christine says, we are getting the end game. Gray was put out in the shop window and wingers sought, left, right and centre. It now seems that Gray suffered that and has now decided he would prefer to leave Everton.

Trust with the club has been broken and Dyche has allowed himself to be wheeled out in response. Hope Gray gets his move, but he would be needed, since they haven't managed a replacement.

I actually thought he did not want a move at all, but it appears that the breakdown is deeper. What a distraction.

Mike Doyle
76 Posted 05/09/2023 at 22:30:12
In this scenario there can only be one outcome. So I expect Demarai will be off soon.

Also, we clearly need the money. So both sides will get the outcome they want or need.

Jerome Shields
77 Posted 05/09/2023 at 22:35:14
Tony #24,

Hadn't read your post before I posted. Dyche has a very difficult job having to cope with Gray reaction. Obviously Gray is playing a game to get away, having been put in the Shop Window.

He has no respect for Dyche, being more interested in his own ends. He was given a chance at Everton to resurrect his career; he seems to have forgotten that.

Jamie Crowley
78 Posted 05/09/2023 at 22:35:50

Fair enough! And you're right – Dyche doesn't rate Gray.

None of that excuses Gray's behavior! Approach the club, hell, be a man and approach the manager even, and request a transfer privately. Don't jump to Jamaica, refuse to train upon return, and inform the club you've garnered a move away.

In what universe is that good behavior? And in what universe do you want that attitude infecting your team morale like the ebola virus???

Or, here's a really neat idea. Approach the manager privately. Tell him you love the Club, want to stay, and ask him what you personally need to do to garner more playing time?

Or you can go on social media and sling shit around. But if you do, expect pounds of it flung right back atcha!

Gray's actions are deplorable.

Your most important words in your response, Bobby, are, "I wouldn't do it his way...". Exactly why we are where we are.

You do it Gray's way, you'll get what's comin' to ya!

"Yes, I'll have the soft-serve chocolate shit please, with some snot sprinkles on top, in an ear-wax cone. Thank you very much."

That's what you deserve when you handle situations in the manner Gray has. Dessert and happiness ain't on the menu, eat your trash.

Shane Corcoran
79 Posted 05/09/2023 at 22:39:46
It’s a pity Dele didn’t come up in the conversation.
Eddie Dunn
80 Posted 05/09/2023 at 22:41:45
Tony, thanks for the insight – you are always a good read.
Dale Self
81 Posted 05/09/2023 at 22:55:41
It looks like he's off to Al-Aboutmi FC but Al-Batross FC is said to be mulling a move!
Tony Everan
82 Posted 05/09/2023 at 22:59:44
Or at £90k pw, Al-Avsomovdat.
Dan Parker
83 Posted 05/09/2023 at 23:06:26
Dyche not taking any nonsense from players that have not performed consistently.

We'll never know the full story but Gray's Instagram stunt loses any sympathy I have there.

Brent Stephens
84 Posted 05/09/2023 at 23:15:36
…One for our Welsh friends who know their rugby.
Michael Lynch
85 Posted 05/09/2023 at 23:16:06
Shame that now we've got a proper centre-forward, we've got so few players with the ability to stick a cross on his bonce.

Demarai Gray wasn't the greatest player ever to wear the shirt, but I'll always remember him sticking that perfect free kick into the box for Dominic Calvert-Lewin to power home and keep us in the Premier League. The lad then collapsed to the floor in relief.

I'm going to watch it one more time before he goes.

Peter Mills
86 Posted 05/09/2023 at 23:44:53
In the continued absence of any other kind of leadership or communication from our Club, I am prepared to accept Sean Dyche's words.

Tony, thanks for your very valuable comments.

Derek Thomas
87 Posted 05/09/2023 at 00:00:49
Listen Son, you may think you have a done deal. But I'm the Boss and it's not a done deal until I Say it is!
Rob Hooton
88 Posted 05/09/2023 at 00:07:43
If Gray refused to train, I hope his wages were docked and he was paid nothing for the time he wasn't doing his job.

He's a pretty crap player anyway, 1 good game in 10 and very little end product. Good riddance.

Neil Carter
89 Posted 06/09/2023 at 00:21:56
Is the Sunday morning social media rant trying to force the price down so he can get what he wants?

While Everton holds his contract, he's our asset and we decide what we sell him for.

Has his low fee been clubs getting rid of a difficult player? If he refuses to train or play, then he's in breach of contract and shouldn't be paid.

George Stuart
90 Posted 06/09/2023 at 00:25:44
Back in the mists of time, I heard that a manager has to know when to bollock a player and when to put his arm around his shoulder. Times are different though and modern players egos defy description.

Dyche doesn't show respect? He, Grey, got a bollocking and he's spat the dummy. I'm intrigued about wages. You can't compel a player to be brilliant. You can't even sanction a player for not putting in sufficient effort in a game. It's too complex to measure.

You can dock wages for not training. You can sanction poor effort in fitness training. Actually I've known of players be fined for going to the media.

This is all very unfortunate with the timing because we need numbers. A straight swap for someone of equivalent value and/or ability who's pissed off with their manager would have been good.

Fantasy football is so simple.

Denis Richardson
91 Posted 06/09/2023 at 00:29:13
Some great posts and insights. All I can say based on the snippets of information is that (normally) the manager is the most important person.

Have to back him on this where it seems Gras's been a bit of a dick. Get the money and shift out a bad apple before it spreads. If we finally get a bit of luck with injuries, we won't really miss him. Looking forward to the next match when maybe Calvert-Lewin, Harrison and a fully fit McNeil can help repeat last season's result.

Not arsed about the internationals, I will be in Marseille on Saturday instead!

Neil Carter
92 Posted 06/09/2023 at 00:30:24
Gray‘s best and quickest way out is to knuckle down and do his best — get good games under his belt and advertise himself if the relationship with Dyche is beyond repair.
Mike Gaynes
93 Posted 06/09/2023 at 01:53:27
Good point, Neil. He can play his way into a transfer if he plays well enough.
Phil Malone
94 Posted 06/09/2023 at 02:28:14
He's an attacking midfielder, does that mean the ball that's launched over the midfield goes over him too, or land around his hair line to control it.


Ernie Baywood
95 Posted 06/09/2023 at 03:17:45
Brian #53 it's not really about shifting responsibility... it's about accepting that there are timelines and perspectives to this story. And that the club can mismanage a situation regardless of whether other parties are guilty of unprofessionalism.

Some of the narrative on this thread seems to be along the lines of 'star player gets too big for his boots and tries to force move to bigger club'. It's not that at all.

It's a guy who has pretty much been frozen out because he's not rated by the manager, trying to leave a club which doesn't want him. That's exactly what you'd want him to do, isn't it?

I don't think anyone comes out well in the ensuing war of words.

All the war of words means is that we'll get less money for him, he'll look unprofessional, and we'll look like a shambles in the process. That's not good for anyone involved.

So yes, it's been mismanaged.

And let's not pretend the first jab came from Gray. Dyche, who now says he likes to keep this stuff in house, made statements in his pre match press conference about Gray.

There is absolutely no need for this situation. The player wants to leave. Presumably we have no objection to him leaving because we certainly don't want to play him. Yet we're making statements about his fitness, readiness and 'reintegration' with the side.

It's badly misjudged.

Kieran Kinsella
96 Posted 06/09/2023 at 03:18:05

I didn't mean the pressure point as a criticism of Dyche I was just speculating connecting dots (apparently wrongly) based on the few snippets in the public domain.

Kevin Prytherch
97 Posted 06/09/2023 at 06:37:34
For years, we complain that the club never tells us anything.

The club tells us something and we complain that the club has told us something.

Eric Myles
98 Posted 06/09/2023 at 06:40:04
Tony #24, did you offer to bring your boots to the next game so you could help fill the empty spaces on the bench?
Eric Myles
99 Posted 06/09/2023 at 07:06:36
I vaguely remember when Gray and (was it Townsend?) were bought by Benitez and they were being hailed as the best players at the Club and both for under £10 million combined (?).

Now Gray is crap and has never been any good according to some posts.

Fickle fans or change of manager / playing style?

Tony Abrahams
100 Posted 06/09/2023 at 07:11:13
I'd love to be able to play football, Eric, but the last time I played, the game was way too fast for me unfortunately mate, and that was in a charity match, playing against lads who were all over 40 years of age!

If you stand next to these players now, they are like finely tuned 5 furlong race horses, so I think it's best just sitting in the stands if we want to criticize them!

I know, Kieran, but I just thought it was the perfect opportunity to try and put the record straight, mate. It's the same with not signing players, because the reality is that any manager would want more players if they happened to be our current manager, and the lack of funds leaving us with one hand tied behind our back, is definitely not down to Dyche.

Sam Hoare
101 Posted 06/09/2023 at 07:25:34
Demarai Gray is a decent player, and could be effective, especially coming off the bench against tired defenders. But I'm not sure he strikes me as someone who will bury the hatchet and knuckle down to work. I could be wrong but his similar departures from Leicester and Leverkusen suggest there might be an attitude/ego issue at play here.

Given that Dyche doesn't love subs anyway, I suspect that £7-8M more in the bank and more wages cut from the club might be the best way forward.

Mark Murphy
102 Posted 06/09/2023 at 07:35:34
He'll leave today.

Good luck to him - he did “okay” for us.

Move on and upwards Everton.


Dan Nulty
103 Posted 06/09/2023 at 07:43:50
Ernie, if you listen to the Dyche interview and listened to the rumours in July, Gray came back to preseason and refused to train. He wasn't frozen out, he froze himself out.

Dyche wanted to play McNeil on the left instead of Gray, he wanted to play centre-forwards Maupay and Simms ahead of winger Gray at centre-forward, and wanted to play Iwobi on the right ahead of him.

Gray had a choice when he came back: he could knuckle down and try and prove himself to the manager and be professional… or he could take his bat and ball home and itch for a move.

Once we signed Danjuma, that was somebody else who would probably play ahead of him and he didn't like it.

I'm not sure any Evertonian would think Gray was a star player, 3 good goals in 3 games when you are average at best in the other 30 games does not a star player make.

I really don't understand why any Everton fan would side with a player who downed tools. Especially when the manager he is accusing of having no respect is only ever talked of highly for his man-management by former players. (I'm happy to be proved wrong here; I cant find any criticism online anywhere.)

Dan Nulty
104 Posted 06/09/2023 at 07:46:17
And Sam, would Gray be effective off the bench? Absolutely.

Does he want to be effective off the bench? Absolutely not.

He believed he was good enough to be a starting player in the Premier League and didn't want to be on the bench. He has agitated for a move and the reality is no-one appeared to want him except Saudi Arabia. When that reality hit home, he has started lashing out.

Ernie Baywood
105 Posted 06/09/2023 at 07:47:14
I didn't complain, Kevin. I didn't think we should hear about Gray's reluctance to train or Dominic Calvert-Lewin's mental situation. Those are matters for the manager and club to deal with the player on.

Again, we have people giving it the "good on Dyche... he tells it how it is".

Anytime someone "tells it how it is", you can pretty much guarantee they're a nob.

Lester Yip
106 Posted 06/09/2023 at 07:50:17
I think Dyche's response is okay. Just stating the fact that the sale's terms are up to the club, not the player. It's a message to others that we will no longer be bullied into selling. If you want to get your man, pay up.

If Gray didn't want to train well and sit out, he's wasting an opportunity to show what he can do to prospective buyer or his new club.

Bill Fairfield
107 Posted 06/09/2023 at 08:09:08
Dyche never rated Gray from the get-go.

The quicker the lad leaves, the better for all concerned.

Frank Sheppard
108 Posted 06/09/2023 at 08:20:29
He scored some ordinary goals and some great goals. He created chances and put decent crosses in. He tried to move the ball forwards, rather than just sideways.

Many of our squad have not been able to do the same. Let's not forget.

Jim Bennings
109 Posted 06/09/2023 at 08:21:21
You have to back the manager in circumstances like this, regardless of people's opinions on Dyche.

Player power in this modern era is ridiculous and they can't be allowed to take the piss.

Brian Williams
110 Posted 06/09/2023 at 08:37:26
Ernie, #105.

Is that you telling it as it is, Ernie? :-)

Dan Nulty
111 Posted 06/09/2023 at 08:55:47
Brian, you beat me to it, Ernie doing exactly the same there.
Craig Walker
112 Posted 06/09/2023 at 09:00:09
If Dyche's version of events is true then Everton are better off parting ways with Gray. Far better players than him have engineered a move away from us and downed tools.

The one thing I want in an Everton player is somebody who wants to be here and looks like they care. Everton will just be another stepping stone on Demarai Gray's CV. I think Dyche is right to respond. Players have way too much power in the modern game.

Kevin Prytherch
113 Posted 06/09/2023 at 09:21:48

The point is, our fans have been crying out for years for the club to provide clarity of things behind the scenes. When someone finally provides clarity for a situation behind the scenes – they're a “nob” for telling it how it is.

Does that make Kenwright less of a nob all these years for not telling it how it is?

Rather than let everyone speculate and draw their own conclusions as to how bad Gray has been treated, Dyche has provided clarity on a situation, a lot more clarity than Gray's comments.

Iain Johnston
114 Posted 06/09/2023 at 09:30:00
Tony Abrahams, thank you for allowing me to delve into my now cobwebbed brain to remember those FA Youth Cup games 35 years ago!

If I remember right, both you & Steve Stone were in the Forest team which for us featured Ebdon & Ebbrell? Was Gary Charles in there with you too? Not sure.

I think that was the same season we played Barnsley in an earlier round which featured Carl Tiler?

Happy Days!

Brian Harrison
115 Posted 06/09/2023 at 09:42:42
Tony @100,

Thanks for sharing your story of you being at Finch Farm yesterday, very few if any of us would ever get the chance to see what goes on and nice you had a talk with Sean Dyche.

I guess you would have been at Forest the same time as Ian Woan. To be very honest, I am more jealous of you in the fact that you were at Forest at the same time as for me the best manager we should have had.

I doubt Gray or his agent would have dared do this when Cloughie was about. I remember just a few years before his death, he was asked how he would deal with players and their agents, regarding wanting to leave or wanting an increase in wages.

Cloughie said to the reporter "Very simple, young man, I would get the player and his agent in my office and get out the contract they both signed. I would then point out how long was left on the contract and get them to agree it was their signatures. Then I would tell them both toFuck Off out of my office."

I think in his interview there was a little bit of that in Sean Dyche's interview. Look, I don't know if long-term Sean Dyche is the answer but he needs time for his signings to bed in.

I think Thelwell getting in Beto is a master stroke, he looks like he has everything you want in a striker big, strong and quick and knows were the net is. He reminds me a little of Lukaku but with more aggression and a better work rate.

Sam Hoare
116 Posted 06/09/2023 at 10:08:56
Alan Myers saying he's leaving today for £10M. I think that's a decent price for him and makes sense for both parties given what's gone down.

What is sad is that it would appear that that £10M is needed simply to service the day-to-day running of the club given the huge debts to service and total lack of cash.

What an absolute mess we are. And it's getting harder and harder to see a clear way out unless Moshiri sells us for a huge personal loss which would seem unlikely.

Dave Abrahams
117 Posted 06/09/2023 at 10:21:14
It would be nice to hear from someone in the background at the club how and who got us into this present mess. It really is heartbreaking to see this once great club floundering the way we are.

I think it will get worse before it gets better. Hopefully Dyche and his coaching staff will keep us afloat in the Premier League in the meantime.

Eddie Dunn
118 Posted 06/09/2023 at 10:30:55

Dyche is always referring to the "noise" that surrounds various issues but to most of us fans there is no noise, just deafening silence. Apart, of course from the missleading stuff making our fans look bad.

The communications are few and mostly through Sean's boring pressers. The club should be telling the fans what is really going on, it should not be up to the coach, who is trying to do enough with one arm tied behind his back.

I suspect we would shudder if we knew the truth.

Trevor Bailey
119 Posted 06/09/2023 at 10:38:19
Fully behind Dyche on this. Hopefully might send a message to other players.
Russelll Smith
120 Posted 06/09/2023 at 10:48:56
Gray has always flattered to deceive and, as many have already said, he had one good game in ten, like many others, which is why we are in the shit.

Dyche, irrespective of who does and doesn't like him, speaks plainly and with as much honesty as he is able. He did not appear to be disrespecting Gray, in fact, before Gray's tweet, he was skirting around the subject to give Gray the opportunity to come back without any fan backlash.

We're well rid of a bad apple if he goes today.

We now appear to be signing players who actually want to be here, recognise that a once great club is struggling but want to be part of the solution. Beto, Danjuma and Young show by their body language, effort and attitude that they understand this.

The constant references to Onana's “unhappiness“ which he consistently rebutts shows that he too appears to be up for the fight. We need to back Dyche and let him continue to build a team that we can once again be proud of.

Tony Abrahams
121 Posted 06/09/2023 at 11:08:07
My brain hasn't got any cobwebs when I think back to those three games, Iain, mate. An uneventful draw at Forest, was fine by me because it meant I was going to play at Goodison, and it was only in this 3-3 aet draw, that John Ebrell played.

That was some game that one, a proper battle in which we came from behind three times and I can still remember going in the ref's room with my arl school mate, big Eddie Youds, to toss the coin, to see where the second replay was going to be held.

I was absolutely gutted when I won the toss, and I can still remember saying to Eddie, Z"That fuckin' ref fixed that!" and him looking at me as if to say, "Are you fuckin' mad, lad, you're gonna be playing at home in the next game!"

I obviously asked about Gary Charles yesterday because he was my arl roommate in our digs, and they told me he had thankfully been clean for over 13 years now. I couldn't believe he even drank because he was a teetotal when I left Nottingham, but me and Stoney both agreed yesterday that Charlesy was different class, and definitely the best player in our group by some distance (there was some very good players in our squad).

Great memories, Clough was great because he kept everyone's feet on the ground. No big heads, and we are in it together attitude, was how I always felt about my days at Forest, and if Dyche stays long enough then I'm sure this is what he will want to create at Everton. I fuckin' hope so anyway.

Ray Said
122 Posted 06/09/2023 at 11:21:49
This reflects the situation facing Leeds when Gnonto took a very similar course of action. A significant number of posters were tolerant of Gnonto's actions if it moved his transfer to Everton along. Many of those posters will now curse Gray for doing the same thing.

In my opinion, Everton should punish Gray for refusing to train, remove him from the squad until he makes a full and public apology, and should never buy a player who downs tools to secure a transfer.

Jimmy Hogan
124 Posted 06/09/2023 at 11:27:56
This reminds me of when Mahrez wanted to leave Leicester for Manchester City. He sulked, he moaned, he pouted, he even accused the club of hurting his mental health. Eventually he got the move he was dreaming of.

Just get rid of Gray. He's flipping useless anyway.

Brian Harrison
125 Posted 06/09/2023 at 11:44:56
Talking of communication, or the lack of it, I would love to hear from David Prentice who I think is still Everton's communications officer.

David was of course the Everton correspondent for the Liverpool Echo for many years, he is married to Dixie Dean's granddaughter, so is steeped in the history of our club. Yet I am struggling to remember any communication from David to the fans.

I can only assume with neither the owner nor the chairman wanting to communicate with the fans, it makes his job virtually redundant, as other than stadium updates I guess the owner and chairman wouldn't allow him to comment on what's really happening at the club.

I just wonder with his journalistic background he may have suggested that Sean Dyche come out and give the club's side of the story regarding Gray?

Dave Abrahams
126 Posted 06/09/2023 at 12:05:23
Tony (121),

I'd disagree with you and Stoney who was the best player in that Forest team. Gary Charles was very good and played for England.

I thought Ian Glover upfront was outstanding. Didn't he play for Scotland U23s while still in Forest's youth team? The only thing that kid lacked was luck: injury after injury –that's what stopped him from having a long top-class career.

Danny O’Neill
127 Posted 06/09/2023 at 12:06:30
I do like a good ToffeeWeb debate.

Reading into the interview and the thread, the manager and his staff are imposing their methodology on the club. Without having met him, he strikes me as straight talking, but pretty composed at the same time. He also seems focussed on the team and knows the cards he has been dealt, so is getting on with it. Maybe not quite ignoring what is going on upstairs, but getting on with what he can effect.

Some great insights and memories Tony.

I didn't quite reach your heights, but I went gracefully, although I did play my final competitive match at Army level at the age of 40. I was an emergency option, but we won 2 - 1!! I don't think I've kicked a ball since then. Not in anger anyway.

My favourite memories, apart from my trials at Everton, were, in no particular order:

Playing a Middlesboro youth team and realising how good some of these lads are, even at a young age.

Playing against a Hajduk Split team in a friendly on the training pitches outside their ground. They had this veteran, over 50 years old on the pitch. My word he could still make space in the middle and spread the ball around. Then they brought on a few youngsters on and they were a different level. Hosted us after the match, taking us into the stadium and onto the pitch. Great experience.

Playing a Swedish league team who were on their summer training camp in Cyprus. Again, a bit of a lesson, although the score was narrow.

Oh, winning the Army Corps league 6 times in 8 seasons and the annual end of season cup tournament 5 times in a row!

Not quite as glamorous, but happy memories of being on a football pitch and playing at a decent standard. The important thing is to enjoy football.

Mike G, which dates are you over?


Alan J Thompson
128 Posted 06/09/2023 at 12:09:18
He likes to keep it in house so comes out with this. Is it his ego or does he just not know when to keep his gob shut?

He'll tell the player when he can leave but, when a player wants away, what is the point in trying to keep him and especially when you've just signed a couple of players who play in a similar position?

He should just at most have told the player that any move would depend on another club meeting Everton's evaluation rather than making it a matter of who has the biggest.

Christy Ring
129 Posted 06/09/2023 at 12:16:49
Tony #24,

Great to hear the inside story, Dyche says it straight which is all we can ask for in a manager, great article.

Ajay Gopal
130 Posted 06/09/2023 at 12:19:52
I like Dyche and I am with him on the Gray matter. But as someone pointed out in the thread above, Gray's cross met by Dominic's head in that game was a beautiful moment which will remain in my memory and for which we all owe Demarai a great deal of gratitude.

Am I the only person thinking that we should have kept Maupay, now that Gray is on his way out? I think Maupay would have done well buzzing around Beto and picking up the second balls and bringing others into play. Anyway, all we can do is hope and pray that our main players stay healthy.

Dave Abrahams
131 Posted 06/09/2023 at 12:22:09
Alan (128),

I think Gray came and told Dyche he had his move arranged by his agent and he was going to whoever it was. He never told Dyche he wanted away, he told him the move was already arranged and he was going.

Dyche kept his gob shut for weeks and made his reply after Gray had his say to the media. Why shouldn't he have a go back? I don't think it's his ego; he's letting Gray know he's not a gobshite and putting his views and the club's in the open – seems fair enough to me.

Dave Abrahams
132 Posted 06/09/2023 at 12:33:40
Ajay (130),

I remember the moments Barry Horne scored versus Wimbledon and Gareth Farrelly's goal v Coventry and also hours and hours watching them in other games.

I didn't mind Gray, he had his good games, but being honest they were few and far between. I wish we could have used him in an exchange deal before the window closed.

Maybe Dyche and Thelwell tried to use him this way, maybe they didn't; it's no use crying over spilt milk!

Ernie Baywood
133 Posted 06/09/2023 at 12:48:00
Brian, I'd hope no-one in my professional life would ever say I "tell it as it is". I'd like to think they'd say I'm diplomatic and considerate of individuals and impacts on the business.

I offer my opinions where I'm free to do so, on people who have taken public roles. In my day-to-day life, I'm a bit more considerate.

But I really don't rate Dyche (obviously). I get that he's asked questions... But he just can't stop talking.

Remember when people on here loved him finally calling out Calvert-Lewin? He basically said he was less injured than he thought it was, it was just a mental thing. Within an hour he injured himself for most of the rest of the season. Then Dyche had the nerve to be the expert on how he would return him to fitness... talking at length about reviewing his mattress and every part of his personal life.

This mess with Gray isn't even slightly surprising to me. Dyche is so far out of his depth, desperately trying to prove to anyone who will listen that he's an underrated genius. It comes through in every single stats-laden press conference.

Kevin Molloy
134 Posted 06/09/2023 at 12:49:33
Just so unlucky we couldn't have got this deal done whilst the transfer window was open eh. Now we can't spend it.

And all the while, Farhad was in the counting-house, counting out his money. He's reclaimed £120M in 8 months. I reckon he'll try and push another heavy hitter out the door in January, and tie up a club sale before the start of next season.

Fire Sale.

Barry Hesketh
135 Posted 06/09/2023 at 12:51:24
Ajay @ 130

Of course we all remember that goal from Calvert-Lewin, but at the time, watching from my seat, it was Richarlison's goal that I remember most fondly, because it was only him in the team that could have scored such a 'scruffy' yet important goal, out of nothing.

Everton V Palace

Alan J Thompson
136 Posted 06/09/2023 at 12:53:50
Dave (#131);

But Dyche seems to have gone out of his way to speak about the matter on Everton's website which I can't see improving the matter. If Gray went to Dyche saying he had arranged a move away, then Dyche should merely have said that he would relay it to the Director of Football and then asked if in the meantime would he mind joining in at training and if Gray declined then fine him a week's wages which is usually part of a contract.

Instead, we have some sort of a public slanging match which seems to be dictating that this matter will end in a parting of the ways with or without a transfer fee.

Mark Murphy
137 Posted 06/09/2023 at 12:57:21
El Bobble reporting the deal is done and Gray is off.

In other news, I got the new home shirt today. First time I've bought a new season's shirt since the Rooney season.

I seem to remember we used to play in Royal Blue? What happened??

Tony Everan
138 Posted 06/09/2023 at 13:04:22
Deal agreed at $10m. (Approximately £8m)

Roger Helm
139 Posted 06/09/2023 at 13:16:56
It used to be simple, players wanting to leave a club put in a transfer request. Now they bitch and moan on social media and down tools until they get their move. They think that the club can be held to ransom.

Characters like that are toxic, especially in a team sport atmosphere, and need to be shipped out ASAP. Great managers like Sir Alex Ferguon have always known that.

Unfortunately it's hard to know what a man is like before you work with him. The club has to back Dyche and if Dyche wants him out, accept it and cut their losses.

We don't want bad apples in our barrel. Character and mentality is at least as important as talent.

Mike Doyle
140 Posted 06/09/2023 at 13:19:57
Tony #121,

Come on — we all want to hear some Cloughie (and or Peter Taylor) stories.
By any chance did Cloughie ever address you by saying "Now then, young man…"?

Neil Lawson
141 Posted 06/09/2023 at 13:28:29
Not on point although perhaps some connection. I have just read a story about Dele Alli and Sergio Reguilon having lunch together. No problem there but our man in rehab parked his £250k Lamborghini on double yellows for 2 hours and apparently was shown laughing when he found the £60 penalty notice.

Now I and others may be grumpy old men (and women) but at a time when you are endeavouring to get your career and life back on track, is it wise to flaunt your wealth and to be dismissive (it seems) of relevant restrictions and simply opt for a penalty paid out of loose change?

A low profile, lots of hard work and a semblance of humility might be a preferable option. It would be terrific to have him back playing at a high level, and maybe he is en route, but little incidents such as this do not inspire confidence.

He could have chosen the £100k Merc instead!!

Dave Abrahams
142 Posted 06/09/2023 at 13:34:13
Alan (136),

Yes it's tit for tat: Gray went to the media to express his annoyance at not getting his move. Dyche went to the smaller Everton website to reply after weeks of saying nothing about what was happening; he made his reply after Gray did his moaning,

Alan, are you serious with “Do you mind joining in training while the club considers your transfer”? Come on, Alan he really would be considered a gobshite by all and sundry if he went down that road.

It looks like Gray has got his wish and is on his way – any bets that he lasts the 4-year deal?

Dale Self
143 Posted 06/09/2023 at 13:34:36
Tony, I'm with Mike 140! Write something up when you can.
Shane Corcoran
144 Posted 06/09/2023 at 13:41:59
Neil, totally agree if it’s true.

Or he could just have gotten gotten a taxi.

Kieran Kinsella
145 Posted 06/09/2023 at 13:47:39
Stevie G will be his new boss. A man with a great reputation for building team spirit and uniting a dressing room ….

I wonder if, come January, we will hear that Gray is lining up his next unsanctioned transfer?

Alan J Thompson
146 Posted 06/09/2023 at 13:48:14
Dave (#142);

If Dyche didn't want him to leave, then wouldn't he want him to be fit enough to be considered for selection as he thought that he would be part of the decision to let Gray leave or not?

And I never said he should use those words but certainly make clear his intention to consider him for selection until the matter is resolved.

Tony Abrahams
147 Posted 06/09/2023 at 13:50:40
Out: Maupay, Cannon, Simms and Gray. In: Beto an Danjuma.

There is an argument that Dyche talks too much, but there is also a counter-argument that says thank god someone at the club is actually talking to the fans right now.

It's obviously no surprise that Demarai Gray is now going to be leaving Everton, but if a manager is now out of his depth for choosing to defend himself over someone he believes has used social media to perpetrate lies, then I genuinely think that this must have more to do with a person's preconceived views.

I don't see it as a public slanging match, but more like a manager defending himself from what he considered to be a very strange statement and something he probably doesn't believe the player could genuinely back up.

Dyche told me he believes we have some very good players, so I just hope that these players remain fit, because once again Everton's squad is really, really (staggeringly) short on the numbers you would expect, for a “supposedly” top-level professional football club.

Duncan McDine
148 Posted 06/09/2023 at 13:51:14
Neil 141. Seeing as Dele is still injured, he should've borrowed a blue badge from: (insert name of injury-prone player – several to choose from)... and by 'blue badge' I don't mean the Everton Crest... that would more than likely get your windows smashed in Manchester.
Ray Smith
149 Posted 06/09/2023 at 13:52:05
He's done it before, and now he's done it again.

Using social media to air his grievances, instead of knocking on Dyche's door and having a one-to-one clear the air conversation or argument, then agree to agree or disagree if necessary.

But no, he hasn't got the bottle to challenge Dyche, and downs tools (if that's true), refusing to train. A talent wasted by a player who thinks he's bigger than the club, so goodbye Demarai, what's the bet he won't see out his contract in Saudi?

A similar situation with Gnonto who IMO was badly advised in the way he conducted himself at Leeds; however, I've no doubt we will have another go at getting him in the January window, providing we're not struggling at the bottom again, especially if the October findings are adverse in our direction!

Dale Self
151 Posted 06/09/2023 at 14:05:57
Now that this has been resolved I worry that we are losing opportunities to mythically condemn Dyche.
Tony Abrahams
152 Posted 06/09/2023 at 14:06:35
Alan @146.

Reading your sentence, then this is exactly why Dyche fined Demari Gray. He was told by the player that he wasn't going to be training because he had already sorted out his move to Fulham.

"You still need to be fit, Demarai, and because nothing has been finalized. then I suggest you go downstairs get changed and do what we pay you for, especially because I have already given you an extended two-week break.

"If you don't then I will have no option but to fine you a week's wages, and whilst we are here, don't forget that you are still an Everton player, and will remain an Everton player until a bid has been accepted by the club."

The player chose the fine, and then went on social media claiming that the manager had disrespected him. I'm actually sorry I even wrote about this matter now especially because it's got nothing to do with me!

Steve Jensen
153 Posted 06/09/2023 at 14:19:08
I never disliked Dyche and actually admired what he did with limited funds at Burnley.

Very impressed by the interview and his honesty about "Badge, People and the Club" which is very refreshing. It makes me think he gets it.

Barry Rathbone
154 Posted 06/09/2023 at 14:28:32
So if true, Gray has gone, it was probably completed days ago, in which case, Dyche did well keeping his powder dry until no way back.

The more I read about this farrago, the more I respect Dyche.

Brian Williams
155 Posted 06/09/2023 at 14:31:24
Gray'll be even more pissed off when he sees he's been replaced by Eden Hazard!
Andrew Grey
156 Posted 06/09/2023 at 14:34:11
Neil 141...

To join you off-point, I'm fed up with super entitled folk in supercars parking wherever they want and getting a trivial piece of yellow paper which means absolutely nothing to them.

At least 1 maybe 2 points on their licence for arrogant parking may go some way to prevent or reduce this abhorrent behaviour.

If I had a similar wage and a similar car, I would probably behave the same because there's no incentive not to, apart from being decent!

Which I'm probably not.

Nick Page
157 Posted 06/09/2023 at 14:39:57
Whilst we're on transfers, adding the £10M for Gray pushes us further down this table (see Figure 10 and scroll down).

And by the way, if we're on this list and facing possible P&S sanction, then how the hell are Forest and Bournemouth going to get off scot-free, especially Forest who've only had one season in the Premier League (and the TV money)? Buying 40+ players must have hit their wage bill, surely.

Fran Mitchell
158 Posted 06/09/2023 at 15:03:04
Nick, the issue with Profitability and Sustainability is about the limit to losses over a 3-year period. I imagine the profits of the likes of Forest and Bournemouth in the previous years help them here, and while it may catch up with them, if they are run well, sponsorship etc, they can do it.

We have been ran like a shitshow, our losses were at £300M+ when the limit was like £105M or something (exact number not sure of), it's clear the club is assett stripping in a massive attempt to post a profit for this financial year and present that to the P&S independent commission when the hearing occurs in October.

We've attempted to write off a huge sum due to 'covid losses' – far more than other clubs accounted for. It's no witch-hunt against our club, it's just chickens coming home to roost after the absolutely dreadful management of the club.

Mark Murphy
159 Posted 06/09/2023 at 15:14:49
Fran, I seem to recall though that we were operating the Covid losses under the supervision and approval of the Premier League?
David West
160 Posted 06/09/2023 at 15:21:35
I'm with Dyche. Who does Gray think he is? Messi or Mbappe?? Players know they all have a price. Look at Salah!!

To just down tools and say "I've sorted a move" is unprofessional, disrespectful and just arrogant.

You can't just sell players when they get a big wage offer, as Dyche said – it's got to be right for the club. Right money, right timing etc.

Good riddance. He still will run down blind alleys and hold on to the ball too long, try too many tricks against Saudi teams. I liked him but this just sours everything!!

Demarai who???

Steve Brown
161 Posted 06/09/2023 at 15:35:14
I am backing Sean in this dispute and good riddance to Gray. 27 years old and decides to take himself off to Saudi Arabia – says it all really.

With Gray's transfer fee, that will be £188 million from sales in the last 12 months and £40 million quid off the wage bill.

I wonder where it is all stashed as the only fee we will spend this year is the €3 million loan fee for Danjuma?

Eric Haworth
162 Posted 06/09/2023 at 15:35:25
Why are we all dedicating so much forum space to an individual who epitomises everything that's currently wrong with football?

And Ray #149 touches on the fact that we adopted, either knowingly or otherwise, a serial “disrupter” who's got history of this type of thing, having been shown the door by all his previous clubs in similar recriminatory fashion.

He classes himself as a professional, but other than being rewarded (extravagantly) for his contribution, that's where the definition of 'professionalism' ends in respect of this individual.

It's not just Sean Dyche who's questioned this particular individual's professionalism abd attitude. Because, from Day 1 under Dyche, there have been murmurings coming out of Finch Farm from some of the more professional members and ex-members of our squad on his general attitude in training.

I think we all questioned the basic fitness of our squad pre-Dyche and, on his arrival, so did he. Consequently, he went back to basics, and among other fitness indicators conducted “bleep” tests.

It was at this point that murmurings started to emerge with hints from other squad members, that this particular individual had vocally suggested it was beneath him & amounted to “dissing” him. So, it would seem this is the start of his relationship with Sean Dyche, and I would suggest there are few among us who would support his feelings of disrespect.

Like him or loath him, Dyche is our manager and, although the are those among his contemporaries who may not subscribe to his style or methods, he always conducts himself in a professional manner, and quite rightly expects the same from his staff.

I've yet to come across anyone who doesn't respect him. Which is more than can be said for a certain Demarai Gray and his social media antics.

Part of our problem is that we've had too many primadonnas of his like, and the sooner we clear the decks of them, and our recruitment criteria starts to include players with a grown-up professional attitude to their profession, the sooner we'll start to turn things around.

Mick Davies
163 Posted 06/09/2023 at 15:39:20
'Gray is crap anyway' - 'one good game in 30' blah blah.

I seem to remember the same posts on here about McNeil for months, then suddenly he's the Player of the Season!

Let's have a bit of perspective here. Gray, for less than £2M, has stood out above players 10 times that amount at times, and I can't have any qualms about his contribution to Everton. But when he's frozen out by a new manager, and at 27 needs to know his future, the shocking state of finances at this club has him waiting until 11 pm on deadline day to know where he is going to be playing in future, ie, if the club get someone in, then he's going, as they need the money.

Is this the way to treat a player who has contributed towards saving us from relegation, and been messed about under 3 different managers?

And yes, I detest all this 'player power' crap, and don't agree with him posting on social media, but it seems to me that, for someone who cost us almost nothing, he's been treated rather badly since Dyche arrived.

He should have been told months earlier that he had no future here, so a move could be arranged for July, but thanks to the tory lump of shite who has destroyed our club, poor Dyche has been painted into a corner, and made to see who we could get first.

The problem goes much deeper than player and manager, the seeds for this were sown 30 years ago – Kenwright Out!

Tony Abrahams
164 Posted 06/09/2023 at 18:15:39
It's like I've taken over this thread but, after reading what Eric H has just written, it made me think back to yesterday and how many players actually came over to the table I was sitting on with the coaching staff, to actually say goodbye, because they were leaving.

You can see that they are trying to fester a spirit within the group, and although I'm not sure if they eat together as a group after training every day (a thought that came into my mind, but a question I forgot to ask), but it was calm and I got the feeling that everyone respected the people I was sitting with.

Players coming up to the manager and coaches and shaking hands, definitely never happened when Brian Clough was around because it was better trying to get out the door before he noticed, unless you didn't mind being called a little shithouse. How times have changed!

Nick Page
165 Posted 06/09/2023 at 19:04:59
Oops forgot the link to that website:

Demo-economic analysis of player transfers (2014-2023) — CIES Football Observatory Monthly Report N° 87 – September 2023

Tony - I'm sure you've experienced it first-hand and also seen Mark Crossley's Clough stories and impersonations. Cracks me up. Shithouse. The Dean Saunders story is also brilliant and involves The Dome Mk 1.

Under the Cosh

David West
166 Posted 07/09/2023 at 22:09:10
Mick 136.

Come on, mate!! Is this how we treat a player? Paying him £££££ thousands a week? From Dyche's comments, it seems Gray is the one who froze himself out!!

We are Everton!! We still have some standards!!

Stop worrying about how we are treating players, and worry about how they are treating us!!! We've been rinsed by players and agents over the last 5 years or so.

Gray can't dictate when he wants to play, or train, or move, to the manager, whoever that manager maybe. What's that say to every other Saudi with fat wallet? What's it say to every player in our squad?

Just don't turn up, don't try, don't train and I'll get my move!!

Players commit to contracts, they are okay taking the wages, like Gomes, Gbamin, Ramirez, Bolasie etc, etc. When the tables turn they go on Instagram and winge.

I don't see Gomes on Instagram saying how sad he is picking up £100k a week?

Players like Gray are trouble, his influence has probably infected others. Dyche saw right through him from Day 1…

Demarai who?????

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