The Premier League’s camp for 'de-selected' players

More than 10,000 players aged between 8 and 18 are released from academy football every year.

From the context, I assume that means UK so all clubs with an Academy… 50? 100? 150 clubs in total?

Let's assume it's across 100 clubs. So that's an average of 100 players per club. Released… sorry, 'de-selected' each year.

Say 8 to 18 represents ten age groups in each academy. So an average of 10 players released at each level? Seems an awful lot.

I try to track the announced releases from Everton's Academy (nominally U18s and U21s) each year and I think they average around 10 players each year for the past 20+ years. I have no idea how many younger players we release but the numbers quoted in the article suggest an awful lot of youngsters don't last very long at all in the Academy. Tony?

Oh, and the other point is about that 97% figure, which should put into context the relative degree of success or failure achieved by the Everton Academy. Perhaps when compared across the board, it's not quite as useless as a number of posters on here claim?

I remember reading something about the Everton Youth/Academy system. I think it was said that even if players coming through end up playing at a professional/semi pro level anywhere in the world, not necessarily top flight, and able to earn a decent living from the game, that was considered somewhat successful.

I cut (ready to paste) that stat about the 97% of top academy players never play in the top flight, then read your piece as I scrolled down.

As you say, the Everton Academy perhaps isn't as bad as we sometimes assume.

My guess is that this will just bring in extra weekend training at most academies because I genuinely believe there is a lot of snobbery attached to the system and this can sometimes affect some parents who start to get ahead of themselves, imo. (Once this happens, then setting a child an example becomes more or less over.)

I could write pages upon pages, which might be able to be taken apart by people within the academy system. Although it's obviously nice to hear about the success stories, I'm amazed by how so few of the absolutely fantastically talented kids that do make it (considering most of them have been in the system from a very early age) have learned how to both kick and also protect the ball with either foot.

You could also definitely argue that the money generated from Everton's Academy, has helped to save the club on more than one occasion, and this is why I often wish the boy wonder had never played for Everton. The arguments could go on and on.

I think from the context, they are talking about players who had been accepted into the Academy system and spent some time there – probably years.

And they say 8 to 18, so I don't think intake rejects at age 6 would be included.

I'd fully expect Liverpool to be bringing in 300 kids a year at U6s, U7s and U8s a year, and whittle that number down to 30 per age group. That will get reduced further, but they'll still be bringing more players into challenge those current players. Kids at grassroots clubs new to academies, or clubs already in academies.

At older levels you'd expect less numbers to be let go, but even the U18-U21s sees a fair number cut.

The numbers in the article don't surprise me at all. It is a numbers game. Trent Arnold recently condemned it, and I have sympathy with that view.

If they train 2 or 3 times a week, and play once a week plus, the elite clubs won't want them being "over-played'. The intensity that they play and train is a different level to grassroots, but with a great toll on their bodies.

It might be okay at the bottom end, but not at the top.

The demands on these kids is huge. Regular training, playing away games 100s miles away, European tours to Europe. It is hugely demanding and, if you can't keep up – ended in a heartbeat.

My son is probably good enough to get into the academy system (lower league) and, as a tall very fast natural defender, could do well. But I don't have time for that commitment and he is also probably much better served in life doing his homework instead (poor lad!) and enjoying football (which he absolutely loves) as a pastime with his mates at a very good (but not great) standard.

Fair play to the families who manage the commitment of academies – it must be absolutely gruelling and absolutely miniscule chance of success too. Heartbreaking for the kids who drop out after years of effort.

The speed and intensity will obviously be much higher so it often puzzles me why a lot of kids struggle when they are released and then find themselves playing at lower level grassroots football.

It doesn't really puzzle me because I'm aware of the obvious difference between the way these kids are being taught, but because kids are not really being asked to think for themselves (I might be wrong) they suddenly begin to look like fish out of water once they are taken away from academy football.

The pitches are horrible and so are the kids who are used to the environment. I like the thought of making kids better, but my bigger belief is that these academies are ruining a lot more footballers than they are producing.

I think they might struggle because (a) maybe some lose their oomph and (b) if you've been schooled in positional play, it's completely different to a looser structure which is more like playground football - where a player picks up the ball and tries to dribble forward, only passing reluctantly.

My son, for example, didn't shine so much at a lower standard - but has done really well at a higher standard. He is a passer more than a dribbler. At a lower standard, everyone is in the wrong place to receive a pass so he is forced to go long / safety first or dribble. At a higher standard, he can pick out a few options. At a lower standard, there often are no options.

This is basically how Guardiola organises play. His positional play tactics are designed to reduce player decision-making by ensuring players are geometrically positioned around the pitch at all times.

Although it sounds a bit rigid, I expect the likes of Gascoigne, Waddle, Beardsley, Rooney and other big natural talents would have thrived in this environment.

That said, Brazilian football is trying to get out of this approach – and get back to greater improvisation under their new manager.

There's pros and cons with all of this – but I would say that at the very top level the academy system is giving us a lot of intelligent technical players, possibly more than I can recall in volume. The England U21 9-1 defeat of Serbia was an interesting watch certainly…

Understanding the game has got to be one of the most important aspects, and it sounds like your son has got a bit of this in his locker. The older he gets, the more important this part of the game will become, just as long as he keeps enjoying it. 🤞

My son has just turned 10, and doesn't like passing the ball, but I'm sure this will change because he's just started showing me all the cuts and bruises on his legs, with the only sympathy received is being told to learn to "Pass the ball then, kid!"

Kids can change in an instant. I think everyone always felt that I was a bit to critical towards my stepson, but I only criticize if I don’t think “any player” is working hard enough, and now the penny has dropped he’s become a different player.

It’s why I think that enjoying playing the game is so essential, because my view has always been that hard work comes a lot more naturally when we are enjoying whatever we do.

One day I would love to see this expanded on: ”This is basically how Guardiola organises play. His positional play tactics are designed to reduce player decision-making by ensuring players are geometrically positioned around the pitch at all times.”

I've been doing some remedial analysis trying to figure out the basic principle that guides situational positioning. That phrase is gold for that perspective. I obviously have not had the structured environment while learning the game and so this fascinates me.

Sorry if I jumped in early but that summary of Guardola's intent was beautiful.

When I was younger, not many players left Liverpool and went on to better things and it was maybe the same with Forest when Clough was the manager.

Maybe this is why a lot of academy kids struggle when they leave this environment because suddenly they lose structure and maybe find it hard adapting to a completely different way of playing.

We could talk all day about it with my own thoughts being that, when Moshiri sacked Martinez, he missed a trick not employing him as the head of the academy!

On that topic, I think you are right. Guardiola is at that professorial stage and probably just insists on the best players without regard for fundamental development in the overall game. He does his part with massive contributions to the high end but leaves casualties as part of that pursuit. In many ways, he is an antithesis to what is needed at the youth level.

I loved what Arsene Wenger, did for Arsenal, and remember his younger players absolutely dismantling the Moyes team that came 4th, in a League Cup tie at Highbury many years ago, with fast aggressive, forward-thinking football that was played mainly on the ground and seemed to be ingrained into the whole football club around this time.

If my memory is correct, then I can't recall many of those young players who really impressed me that night, really making the grade. I suppose it would have also been very hard for any young player once they had to leave Arsenal because they had a totally different style of play to any other club around this time.

They analyse both very rigid European systems like Guardiola's (or really Cruyff's) positional play and the very different style Brazil are now trying to develop and Ancelotti is expected to continue when he takes over.

It's interesting to see just how hard players like Bruno Guimaraes find the new tactics. So you can only imagine how difficult kids find it if they leave the City academy and find themselves playing a completely different brand of football elsewhere.

It'll suit some but not others.

And thanks as always Robert, I will be viewing those later today with my adapted chess board trying to keep up. I've been a bit late to the party on youth issues but, given the apparent club stability on the pitch and my age, it is time.

I noticed Croatia's separation of groups creating space which allowed the famous walking football approach. This started my interest in these unusual formations. I can begin to see how these evolve from standard formations and their weaknesses.

Then at some point the simple game can undo the complex approaches in a neverending contest of strategy. The beautiful game is complexly simple, the world is simply complex.