Dyche leads incredulous Everton reaction to latest derby travesty

Speaks for itself: typical corrupt bias.

How the Premier League do not act on this so-called official is beyond me. But I won't be surprised if nothing happens.

Well done to the manager and players for speaking out. I see Klopp responded to asking for a serious question when asked if it should be a replay.

I'm not saying there should be, but just 2 weeks ago he was outraged.

We all knew we were getting fuck-all with regards to decisions on Saturday. I don't know why people thought we would.

UTFT.

Silence! He knows its least said soonest mended.

I haven't looked but I'd guess Liverpool conceded more penalties at Anfield during the empty stadium Covid season than they probably received in the previous five seasons. I might be wrong.

Kenwright out, Pawson out. We move on UTFT's

I prefer to focus on the fact we lost the match because Michael "thick as mince" Keane assumed a volleyball position whilst trying to block a cross.

I'm still fucking aghast at his body position trying to block that cross. What a fucking moron.

I agree with you about Keane. I've thought since he came that his arms seem to be disjointed or double-jointed. Whatever, they seem to move like a windmill with broken sails. Awkward movements as always. I can't blame him, because... that's him.

I look at how Dyche didn't bring Patterson on as soon as Young got his 1st yellow. That seemed to me to be putting us on a knife edge from then on.

I still think Keane was more than a little daft by having his hand at such a strange angle, as even under the less exacting hand-ball rules, he would probably have still given a penalty away. There's unlucky and there's plain daft, and I would be examining his life-style and general attitude as to why it's always he, who is involved in those moments of madness. All players make mistakes, but Keane is now becoming a serial offender and has done more damage to Everton, than many opponents have.

Anyway, they should bring in a handicap system that says that the other lot get an extra point from all matches, thereby guaranteeing that they and not that oil-rich club from down the East Lancs, will be crowned champions, which, from a commercial point of view, makes them worthy champions. That would satisfy the Premier League's bean counters as they proclaim to have a really really competitive league, well actually only four or five realistic competitors and the rest.

They got lucky with the sending-off, but they'd have broken through eventually, as we had no out-ball, no flow, no ability to break them down.

The women's team at Anfield last week showed more tenacity and creativity than Dyche's teams have shown all season.

Nevermind he should trust Ashley Young being experienced, Young has been a red card waiting to happen in the last four games and, at Anfield, if you want to walk that tightrope then so be it, but it backfired.

The irony was that Patterson comes on at half-time anyway.

These are decisions that managers at the highest level live and die by.

His mistake was starting Young instead of Patterson. At least he hasn't got that option next week.

Yes, they were shit decisions but would the outcome have been the same if they went down to 10 men? Probably!

The whole of football knows if a player hauls down a breaking away player it's yellow, there's never any argument about it. Effectively it was a decision that ensured a Liverpool win.

10 v 10 and the dynamic the game can change, we didn't have much offensively but it would have dramatically increased the chances of us grinding out a hard-fought draw.

I'm afraid this is how it is and get used to it, nobody outside Everton cares one jot. So all we can do is knuckle down and try to win next week, enjoy the games where we are given a fair chance.

The alternative is to forget about football altogether because it's impossible to win, in the long term, against such clear and obvious bias.

The non-sending-off of the Liverpool player was a scandal. Will the bad decisions ever end when we play them at their place?

Forget the Michael Keane penalty issue, it was stonewall given the current rules.

Had Dyche reacted to Youngs first yellow, and subbed him for Patterson, we would have been fine, but to take both our wide men off killed any chance of a counter attack, but bringing Keane on was sheer madness, how can a player stand like an Egyptian dancer in his own penalty area with hands stretched out that would have brought a tear to even stretch Armstrong, obvious change had to be Gueye to offer protection in front of his defence, just for his tackling alone.

It was a disgrace Konante not getting a second yellow card, it evens it up, but all it did was get Dyche out of a hole for his mess up of starting Young, then not subbing him, failing to bring Patterson on sooner, taking our two big threats off at ht, and changing the team at ht, when we were playing well

Patterson for me was the correct sub at ht, that was the only sub we needed to change, the rest of the team were holding out fine until then.

Much as I am annoyed over the none sending off, I doubt with the personal we had on the field, we would have held on, even against ten v ten, so in a way it softens the blow of the injustice and took the shine off their win, because everyone in the media is talking about a second yellow card, instead of a win for them.

But yes we were robbed yet again by corrupt officials, shit scared of getting called out by Klopp.

Keep this in the mind of future refs so things might finally swing in our favour decision-wise.

We were shite, it's immaterial anyway… Doesn't alter the fact that Everton were robbed by a referee, who couldn't have been any more blatantly biased.

I didn't think so.

Inevitable that they would get the major decision.

Inevitable that Keane, once on, would create a goal, or get an own-goal.

Groundhog Day.

I don't want Everton to receive favourable decisions if they prove to be incorrect calls. If we all travel down that road, the game will be even more goosed than it is at the minute.

I want Everton to win cleanly and lose or draw cleanly. I want every game to be properly officiated, which obviously at this time, it isn't, whether it's because of inadequate officials or because of the pressure the media exerts, when it comes to certain clubs.

The fact that Everton reporter, Joe Thomas of the Liverpool Echo, predicted most if not all of what happened prior to Saturday's match, is testament to the fact that something really terrible is wrong with Premier League football.

Klopp is an "A" grade graduate because of always being involved in big games but our managers only have 5 important games a season so Dyche is showing he was paying attention in class.

But if you ignore the diversionary bollocks, the dreadful conclusion is we are in the band of non-descripts there only to make up the numbers. It wouldn't matter if Dixie Dean was the ref we're that far removed from the likes of Liverpool we are a once-in-a-decade victory donkey.

Too many get suckered in by these diversions… it's been happening since mid-Moyes and here it is again.

Firstly – you can't take a player off every time there is a yellow card issued. There's only 3 occasions to make subs, if we get 3 yellows in the first half are we really going to use all of our opportunities for subs? I don't see anyone calling Dyche for not taking Tarkowski off – he was also on a yellow.

Secondly – Klopp didn't react to Konate's yellow card so let's not give him undue praise. Klopp reacted to when Konate should have been sent off. Klopp did the exact same as Dyche and left a player on the pitch who was on a yellow card.

It doesn't excuse the awful handling that this club has received from it's own Board for Decades! But over the years, very important, blatant, poor(I would say Corrupt)decisions made by referees against us in favour of Liverpool. And now we can add those against us in the "favoured few" positions. From Clive Thomas' decision in the Cup, the Hands-on Milk Cup Final through to Saturday. We may have won lost or drawn, except that Referee made decison which I view as corrupt. He may have been scared to give the 2nd yellow, In that case what's he doing as a Premiership referee. In fact what is he doing as a referee and getting paid for it, at any level of professional football.

There's plenty of views about Dyche's tactics after the first yellow and the second yellow,. In my view, they are all secondary to that decision not to issue a second booking to the reds player, thus leading to him being sent off. That could well have changed the game in our favour.

I have said on here many times: whilst Holgate and/or Keane are involved, we will always concede from silly errors. One has gone, the other comes on and, hey presto, gives away a goal. He should never be picked for any game after the fiasco at Villa earlier this season.

Oh and yes who gave him the kamikaze throw, Ashley Young?

Patterson may be young and prone to mistakes, but he has pace. Give him a run of games and see how he goes. Look at Branthwaite, probably our best player, few months ago not given a chance.

Taking the two wide men off took away the out-ball and invited pressure. we were never going to score after they were benched. Unfortunately, the mindset of a manager who doesn't believe and has quickly caught the Everton disease we all suffer from of: "Oh shit, we are going to lose!!"

Yes, they made some fast breaks but we had them covered and for a team with so much possession they lacked any real cutting edge. I think that may have affected Dyche's changes and thinking at half-time.

First goal was because Keane is just doing what he does and it is not very good. Second goal was another breakout as we were still chasing an equaliser in the 97th minute.

However, for me, McNeil and Harrison, hooking both was just plain daft.

The ref's decision have been done to death, so I have nothing to add that hasen't already said. Apart from it was no wonder Konate was laughing at full time.

We never get fuck all there and hardly anything at Goodison when we play them. Over the years, we've been robbed time and time again: Gerrard's lunge, Kuyt's lunge, Owen's lunge, Suarez diving so Rodwell's off, Hutchinson scoring a winner as the whistle blows, Hansen handball in the cup final, playing 98 minutes till they finally get one.

I'd've taken the players off.

It's just another Premier League lovefest with the Super Six money train. Sadly we missed the train…

Dyche and Everton need to challenge Pawson and the referee association or it will never change.

It never gets pointed out by anyone from our side but if anything happened the other way round, they would never stop banging on about it, to ensure future decisions.

Imagine if a Liverpool player had been sent off after 37 minutes and then an Everton player committed the second yellow offence of Konate… not in a million years would he avoid being sent off at Anfield.

That should be pointed out because it's unfair bias at best and blatant corruption at worst.

There has been so much written about what Dyche and Klopp should or shouldn't have done but, in the cold light of day, your observation is spot on. Thank you.

I found it strange that Pawson elected to send off Young so early in a game of this ilk and with the history it has. But he did and then two more eyebrow-raising officiating decisions seal our fate.

When Moyes or Silva went down to the RS due to similarly infuriating decisions, we quite fairly didn't blame them for it. Both were, as was Dyche on Saturday, given insurmountable tasks.

I'd be far more inclined to hold Dyche to account had they gone down to 10 men and we'd only taken a point.

So although the different nature of the tackles gave the ref an 'out' it was still double yellow. At least most of the pundits and ex-refs saw it the same way. Yes, Pawson therefore needs 'remedial treatment'.

And it doesn't help his case that he failed to give a yellow to their left-back for almost the exact same tackle as Young did for his first yellow. That also needs to go into the remedial action plan.

Would we have won with 10 v 10? Almost certainly not. Calvert-Lewin's first minute header turned out to be by far our best chance of the game. But we might not have lost, our defence, with Young removed, did pretty well. The rest of the team... not so much.

As for taking off Young, I don't think it is the same as with Konate. The former was getting skinned by a quicker, more skilful player and so was high risk, an accident waiting to happen. Konate was generally not looking at risk of getting skinned to the same degree. The real problem is, Dyche doesn't rate Patterson. Well now we find out if he's right or not.

No argument with the penalty, Keane's action in raising his arm so obviously was literally inexplicable. He was plenty far enough away from the ball for that to be a shoe-in. I really don't know what comes over him. Panic?

Could it be that Dyche was right with his call to play the experienced Young rather than the inexperienced and hardly reliable Patterson?

I don't like either player to be honest, neither have done a good job for Everton so far in their career here, although Patterson does have time on his side, but I've yet to see what many see in the young Scotsman. Even if it's a loan, we need a new full-back, in January, unless Patterson begins to show something that as yet he hasn't in an Everton shirt.

I agree with Michael Ball in his column today, who said Diaz was allowed to make three crosses in the space of a few minutes, one of them for the penalty and not a tackle in sight from Patterson, maybe that's why Dyche is reluctant to start him. The sooner Seamus is back, the better.

I'll guarantee you that Pawson won't ref another of our games this season. In fact, I'd stake my house on it.

Could you imagine the reception he'd get, especially at Goodison.

Except, no obvious penalty for us denied. That is unusual. Still, a defensive setup restricts opportunity.

A couple of things about the ref. The red card denied of course. But initially denying the penalty. Come on. Blind pew could see that was a penalty.

He was like a crane trying to impress a female at mating time.

Plenty of times a player can get through a game after an early yellow (often because sensible refs may raise the threshold for the second yellow if it's not too outrageous).

Yes, Young may have been likely to be put in awkward positions and had to be very careful but he is a seasoned pro and made a very bad choice for the challenge he put it for his second. That's on the player, not the manager.

Pawson clearly varied his threshold for a yellow for Konate, which just couldn't be fair after he had not used that discretion for Young. I have yet to hear anyone say Pawson was right.

Quite correct, how many times (literally hundreds every week) do we see a referee give a final warning to a player already booked?

Not only did Pawson fail to bother with Young but compounded it by failing to even bother to show Konate a card for a professional foul.

Wasn't Allan sent off by Pawson with a straight red for a professional foul in his own half a couple of seasons ago? It deserved a booking yes, but a straight red?

In this case, Beto was goal-side and Konate was the last defender. It was a professional foul. The only reason it was not a straight red was possibly because it was in the Everton half.

Interesting stat on Pawson I dug up... He has refereed Everton 24 times in the Premier League over the past 10 years. In that time, he has sent off 5 Everton players...

He has refereed Liverpool 31 times in the Premier League over the past 10 years. In that time, he has sent off 0 Liverpool players.

Over the same period he has refereed Everton v Liverpool twice.. with Everton getting 7 yellow cards and Liverpool 2 – that's over 10 years.

Oh and to add to that set of stats, he has never sent a Man City player off in the Premier League or a Man Utd Player in the Premier League.

Everton have been shown more red cards than any other Premier League team refereed by Pawson over the past 10 years (5 times).

Courtesy of World Football net.

I wonder if there is some deep recesses of ref's minds that say, "Oh it's Man City (say or Real Madrid). They don't need to swing recklessly so it can't be a penalty."

Or conversely, "They're Man City, their attacker is so brilliant, that defender "must" have brought them down."

Or maybe it's just "protect the brand"? I'm very cynical about professional football these days.

Don't know if you've been watching the rugby World Cup — the tourney Ian Edwards avoids as he thinks anyone outside of Merseyside is a Tory. But it's interesting to see and hear the refs saying things like “Okay, stop there, mate – if you move another inch, it's a penalty.”

I realize rugby is slower than football but it's interesting to see refs essentially coaching teams through the game versus seemingly arbitrary decisions that often seem to favor one side.

Also, slightly off topic but I had a weird dream last night in which a giant was stomping on houses in Kansas City and killing residents. His reign of terror came to an end when I took a chainsaw to his Achilles and he bled to death. I'm pretty sure there is some kind of Everton message there but I'm not a professional dream analyst so I thought I'd open it to the group.

Without looking at the footage of the incident again, I am pretty sure there was another player in reasonably close proximity.

On the Twitter video I looked at, you cannot see the other defender (far right-hand side) slightly behind but 15 yards away. On YouTube, you can… apologies!

Having said that, it would have been debatable that he could have caught Beto had he got away. Still a yellow… professional foul.

Feel sure we are talking about the same player.😀

No argument from me about it being a second yellow. I admire your view that the 'last' defender wouldn't have been in a position to catch Beto. I feel that Beto would have had a long way to go to get to the goal, but it's immaterial because he wouldn't have got very far because he would have been cynically taken out by the last defender who would have stayed on and not been sent off and we could have a whole different situation to debate.

I would be interested to know if Trent Alexander-Arnold had a little word or two to say to the ref just before the ref gets the second yellow and red out for Ashley. Imagine it's pure coincidence but the ref seems to be having a think about the situation but then when the Liverpool player arrives at the scene, out pops the cards.

There's one for the conspiracy experts!

Try keeping off the cheese before turning in.

It's like some kind of dictator style cover-up!!! What the hell is going on?

I put the 'full' replay on the next morning and you could see the time clock in the corner of the screen jump forward 30secs...not a trainer to be seen.

Also, If I remember correctly, the highlights never showed V v Pegleg's taking out Rodriguez and DCL in the first Few minutes

Liverpool hated him.Remember Daglish trying to make a ejit out of him at a post FA dinner, playing to a admiring gallery.Jimmy always highlighted the pressure that officials were put under by Liverpool players as they congregated round them for most decisions.

I myself often told Jimmy to F...Off on the TV whilst watching Match of the Day.I admired him after that.

So there has always been a intimidating attitude emanating from Anfield to officials and those that question, and visa a versa when the decisions go against, eg: Pickford on Van Dijk.Only the other week a feedup Spurs supporter said to me that Liverpool protests after their game were still going on weeks later and it wasn't as bad as Pickford's attempted murder.

It's all part of Liverpool's Culture since Shankly.

As a player I like Michael Keane, he seems a nice bloke and he has done his bit in keeping us in the premiership. However, we all know that he is prone to making mistakes so why bring him on ?

In my mind these were both unnecessary errors, by the Manager and his assistants. Add those to the usual game plan of booting the ball up the pitch to a lonely centre forward, our usual corner routines of bringing all the big men up, which on Sunday played into their hands by leaving us open and unprotected from their Very Fast counter attacks. This all seems to add up to 'Dyche Football', and surely we are better than that ? Or is this all we can expect for the remainder of the season ?

What baffles me, is the foul on Beto isn't even shown on the official Everton youtube highlights (and obviously not on the 9min RS version). Something strange going on.

Klopp on the other hand pulls off a player for fear of going down to ten men, our thick as a brick manager leaves a ticking time bomb on the pitch, he should of known he would of been targeted and pulled him straight away.
It wasn't as if we didn't have another replacement on the bench.

We also have to remember the vast gulf in quality of the players available to the top sides and ourselves, even West Ham and possibly Villa have vastly superior teams to Everton at this present time. Obviously, I'm hoping that on Sunday, we give West Ham a match, and take something from the match, but I would expect a similar line-up and tactics to what we saw in the last game.

What we'd like to see from an Everton side and what this current side is capable of producing, is a gulf that will take a good while to bridge. Although the financial state of the club, might somewhat strangle the spirit of adventure for longer than we'd all wish.

I saw it differently. If the referee had done his job, Klopp would not have had the chance to pull his player.

The difference between the way the two managers handled the situation was dictated by the referee. Klopp didn't need footballing intelligence. He simply needed to heed the warning.

I blame Young rather than Dyche for our numerical disadvantage. If you can't trust a player of his experience not to dive in when he's on a yellow. Who can you trust.

If Dyche is to get any blame it should be for selecting Young in the first place

Careful what you wish for, people even voted for a second rate stadium on the outskirts of Liverpool.

I want my Everton back, the one that used to compete to win, and not just make the numbers up.

I never watch any highlights programme when Everton fail to win, which means I don't watch many. I do look at the Everton official site and the footage on there was appalling as it didn't show the incident that led to the penalty, it may have been updated since Sunday I suppose.

Pravda - FA, Premier League? Never!

Normally on the official club website, it's usually Darren Griffiths who does the commentary on the edited highlights, and also the full version of the game a day or two later. Is this the same one you watched?

On both versions, highlights and full version there is a different commentator, and on the edited version, which is about 2 minutes long, the foul by Konate on Beto is not shown at all, while it is all over the Ashley Young one. I've only watched the first half of the full game, but surely the Konate foul cannot have been edited out?

I disagree that any Evertonian signed up to what Bill Kenwright has provided, like fans of other clubs we are lumbered with the owners that decide to buy the shares.

Moyes provided enough cover for the owner to bluster his way through a number of issues, and liars aren't as easy as thieves to spot. Many Blues thought that Bill's heart was in the right place, even if he was a 'luvvie' and a bit sentimental.

Unfortunately, since Moyes left, the real state of the club has been laid bare and its demise has been accelerated by of all things huge wads of cash – you couldn't make it up.

I expect to see a large red flag on the Kop in future years with Bill's mug on it, with the line "The man who killed Everton FC – Thanks!"

How many of these egomaniacs want to play in front of Northern Premier League size crowds every week?

I don't blame the people who voted for Kirkby. I blame the sneaky bastards who sold it to them with their lies.

Remember that glossy brochure? Remember the convincing argument put forward by Terry Leahy – an Evertonian? Remember the lies Kenwright spouted about Goodison failing safety checks? I can't recall another incident where a football club has tried to deceive its fans on such a scale.

The only difference was that Terry Leahy tried to do what was best for the company he worked for. Kenwright and his cronies tried to do what was best for themselves.

Both pundits on MotD agreed that Konate should have been sent off, the incident was discussed after the highlights.

For what it's worth even Ray Houghton, co-commentating on TalkSport, said Konate should have gone.

As it stands, we have no hope of competing with the top 6 clubs in the Premier League, unless we have a person or group with hopefully clean money and a genuine interest in that club. The odds are stacked against all these clubs.

We cannot attract the best players and basically have to look in the bargain basement. This came about when the top four clubs qualified for Champions League with payments from the start.

This has not only affected the Premier League but most of the leagues in Europe, so you end up with the same clubs in the Champions League playing each other every season, unless you have a bad season like the Reds had last season.

The First Division in England was far more competitive
than the Premier League is today. Having watched Everton since the 1950s, I doubt I will ever see the Blues win another trophy, but that also goes for the millions of supporters from the other 75% of the clubs in the Premier League.

Currently we are in a league of low-in-the-table teams fighting to stay up with an aspiration to improve sufficiently to become a middle of the table team. With good management and some luck we might achieve that over the next eighteen months.

For the likes of Brighton, West Ham and Villa they should enjoy their moments of comparative success. They are being well managed but they must know they will never bridge the gap between them and the top teams unless they can attract a major investment of new finance.

Thanks for the information, I was really trying to ascertain if the incident had been shown as part of the actual highlights, or was it only discussed after the highlights had been completed.

It doesn't really matter, but as others have noted, some important incidents from a supporters perspective are often not shown in the highlight packages as the broadcasters edit out many of the lower profile incidents, which is annoying, as if you've been to the game and would like to see something that needs clarifying it very often isn't shown, and many of us haven't the patience to go through the full 90 minutes on the official site, even if we have access to it.

If it had been any other game, I would have accessed Match of the Day on BBC Iplayer, but I can't stomach seeing the other lot, for even a second.

There was a time when good management, big crowds, a half decent commercial performance and wealthy local ownership virtually guaranteed a place near the top of the league plus a trophy or two. Exceptional managers like Clough could break the mould for relatively short periods by lifting smaller, middling clubs up to the top level.

Our route back to the top looks formidable. First and foremost it will be about the club surviving the next eighteen months so that we can move into the new stadium, preferably watching Premier League football. That in itself will be a major achievement although it looks fraught with difficulties at present.

I'm not looking beyond that at the moment. I like what I hear from Kevin Thelwell and Sean Dyche but they must know, in the words of the song, it's an uphill climb to the bottom.

I remember going to Kirkby to see what that glossy brochure was all about and meeting Dave Kelly for the very first time, the man who now happens to be chairman of the club's Fan Advisory Board.

He explained to me that he lived right opposite the site of what was going to be the new stadium, but he didn't think it was a good move for Everton. I agreed with him 100% and my estimation of him went up even further because I asked if I could join his group that were going to be fighting this move, and he just shook his head and said No.

I have always liked being told the truth dead straight, so there was no hard feelings on my part. Sometimes when I drive past Bramley-Moore Dock, I will think of the people who were involved with KEIOC.

Every single time I drive past that site that was earmarked for Everton in Kirkby, I still become angry at the temerity of certain people who were prepared to move Everton Football Club to such a place.

All the incidents were included within the actual highlights of the game.

Likewise if Young's fouls had been in reverse order he may too have escaped the sending off. Watching last night's match between Spurs and Fulham, had me thinking that there must be different rules at play, because in the first 20 minutes of that game, there were numerous yellow card offences by Fulham, but nobody was booked until close to half-time, and that was issued to a Spurs player.

I didn't intend to say I agreed with the referee I was only trying to be objective about the decision, and how the referee may have seen the incident from his perspective.

It doesn't matter now anyways, Young will be suspended, Everton will have lost and life goes on, even if it is very irritating how we as a club don't seem to benefit very much from these quirks of interpretation.

We're all entitled to an opinion, it was the first time I'd seen the incident and I tried to view it without my blue-tinted glasses on and as I have already explained I could see why the official might not have issued a second yellow, I also said I didn't agree with him. I certainly didn't go out of my way to defend the decision.

I am disagreeing with you, not ‘dissing' you.

Inside my Dream

I do wonder though if the red card had have been issued and Everton had held on to the point or better, would these same professionals have come to the same 'universal' conclusion?

We are seen as pushovers, and the very reasonableness you demonstrate is a bit of a loser mentality.

Would the red shite fans sites see posts rationalising such a cowardly decision if the boot was on the other foot? I think not.

Whether we like it or despise it, their actions after the Spurs game are a case study on how poor referring and VAR decisions should be challenged.

We in the other hand are as soft as shite.

Maybe the dream was a premonition about the rumors doing the rounds?

However, we can complain as much as we like about the failure to dismiss Konate but the changes Dyche made at half-time removed the potential to be in any way positive.

So, had Konate gone, our chances of a hard fought draw may have improved but our potential for a sneaky victory remained at 0 percent.