Andy Burnham's second letter addresses 'highly problematic' aspects of the reply he received

This is key to the whole fiasco because it zooms right in on the sentencing itself – the most contentious and problematic aspect of the whole sad and sordid business – with a consensus of the Premier League clubs themselves set against the adoption of sentencing guidelines similar to those in the EFL.

Yet that is exactly what the Premier League has tried to do here "through the back door" indeed!

Off with their heads!!!

I don't understand why they haven't, didn't or wouldn't.

This letter has articulated what some had posted – in a round about way! The issue and decision gets even more murkier and incomprehensible.

The problem is twofold: Will the Premier League flunkeys on the appeals commission put their egos and bias to one side?
Secondly, will the Everton team articulate and bring up points many, including Andy, have raised?

Somehow I doubt it… on both points.

My suspicion is they only found out about the draconian penalty pretty much when we all did – when the Premier League published the results of the independent commission on their website.

Actually, they both sides had a chance to review the findings before they were published, so that's not true. But I'm sure the first Everton would have known of it is well after the end of the hearings.

Let's just hope against hope they are smart enough to make this a central plank of the appeal.

I only hope that whoever is representing us at this second inquisition is adept and knowledgeable as Andy. In fact, we would all love to see him speaking on our behalf.

I fear that, with the independent panel being questioned in such detail, they will take their time and let us swing in the wind for as long as possible. Are they hoping that next set of accounts to be presented before 31 December will also see us condemned?

Even though we have been under Premier League scrutiny since 2020(?) and have raised enough from the sales of Digne, Richarlison, Gordon et al to cover the purchases by Big Sam, Little Frank and Mr Dyche.

Given that Moshiri and our late, Chairman – who is quoted as saying to Simon Jordan “You try telling a billionaire how to spend his money” – held the purse strings, any creative accounting is possible.

Sadly I think we will be playing under this very dark cloud for most of this season where every loss will be magnified as we try to fight our way out of the Bottom 3.

Each week, I look at the drone videos of our new wonderful stadium as it grows on the Blue Mersey hoping that we will be still in the Premier League when we can play there.

COYB v Forest today!

I am hoping, fingers crossed, that EFC were playing it down and now that the process has been published, will go all out on the legal front. No point in putting all your cards on display if you are unsure of the game being played. Or even if they have switched to dominoes

COYB

To reiterate the response to Anthony @2, they could perhaps have attacked Masters's submission in this regard but they had probably worked up their defence in full before hearing the Premier League submission(s).

I don't think Everton could have raised this issue at the hearing but it seems to be a meaty one for the appeal.

I wonder what Andy Burnham fancies doing next after his stint as a Metro Mayor?

If he never becomes Labour leader it will be a crying shame. Though as a Chairman he would suit me just fine.

I thought the response was, as you say, snarky... like it was an affront (should have been started with an opening sentence beginning with "How dare you..."). It reminded me of the stance often taken by our late chairman when playing with his train set.

Andy Burnham's response articulated certainly my thoughts far better than I could ever do and got right to the heart of probably the strongest basis for an appeal.

That's not to say things like Player X should be accepted, but we need to show we mean business. Gloves off, no more working with the Premier League because, I tell you, if we win the appeal, those bastards will certainly try again with the next set of accounts if they can. They need humiliating.

My thoughts are that for all of the posturing of Masters and the Premier League, they had hoped that the independent commission would temper this right down, and they could then show how they had a wonderfully balanced mechanism to govern themselves.

It makes absolutely no sense to have issued this level of punishment in the way they have. But then responding to an Andy Burnham's open letter privately, and not expecting an open response?!!

Andy has done a brilliant job in his letters. He can now break down their arguments publicly.

I'd imagine they'll now refuse to discuss the matter with him, citing how by doing this in public could affect the impartiality (ha!) of Everton's appeal.

This way, even if they now refuse to reply, he's made them look stupid. At least he's opened up the opportunity for them to further soil themselves in public.

These greedy, arrogant twerps at the Premier League need to wake up fast to the fact that they are under scrutiny by serious figures now and learn humility quick.

It would serve them better to admit they made a mistake in the severity of the penalty rather than attempt to double-down. Both main parties intend to legislate for an independent regulator for football, and there is a good chance that the party that Andy represents will be in power next year.

The leadership of the Premier League might want to consider that before deciding their next step.

They've made this up as they've gone along.

Well, now there is Government level interest from a very well respected politician with experience in culture, media and sport as well as being a close runner for being leader of the Labour Party had it not been for that Momentum organisation.

He carries influence and weight. Keep going, Mr Burnham. Those people in their grey suits can't hide forever in their Paddington offices.

And just keep winning, Everton. They can't stop or deny that.

The same organisation that wanted a 39th game played overseas at the end of the season, with locations / fixtures TBC, and still have that count towards final league placement, and not see the sporting integrity problem.

If ever there was a case for regulation, this is it - unfortunately UK doesn't have the best track record in this regard.

They are now in the position of trying to defend the undefendable. All this revelation will become part of the review even with the questionable ability of those that are representing Everton.

I always thought there was a connection between the EPL and EFL regarding dealing with Everton.You wwould think that Everton are being dealt with as if they are relegated..

Unfortunately, there is no supreme independent body where this can be raised. The composition of the next Commission is entirely in the hands of the people who passed down the original sentence, ie, the Premier League and they can choose to ignore all the points raised if they wish.

Whether they choose to ignore or excuse all or some of the points in the letter is entirely in their hands, they are the absolute dictators in all this.

Pressure from powerful outside persons or organisations can help sway their ultimate decision but I suspect the end result will be some sort of face-saving compromise not the least influence being the dawning realisation that a precedent set for the Man City, Chelsea cases, ie, relegation to League 2, may cause them both to quit the Premier League and strengthen the threat of the formation of a European Super League.

Should this happen, major funds would be diverted away from the Premier League and bring an end to the gravy train, which they definitely would not want! And money always talks!

We can't let this ridiculousness continue

This is my fear - having tried it with the 'rolling accounts' for years A, B & C, they will...as it shows 'a history of repeat offending' try it again with the 'rolling accounts' for years B, C & D.

And, in 'I wouldn't put anything past those bastards' category...If they do amend our punishment, they won't reduce it by say 5.
They will show that they were within their rights and punishment still stands but try to play the good guy by tempering justice with mercy and suspend 5

Then if required, tack it on to next years punishment.

That is the problem that the Premier League has now created with their Everton decision with:

The European Super League mothballed, but not forgotten.

The Saudi League, with it's bottomless pit of money, which could be extended.

The other problem is that Man City and Chelsea lawyers will be looking with interest at the present details and queries regarding the Everton case, which appears to be full of holes

The EPL may have been clumsy in their phrasing- we'll see- but they are entitled to submit evidence, including a proposed punishment, in the absence of an agreed and published tariff.

It is a matter of record that the commission disregarded the EPL's proposed tariff and issued its own as they were entitled to do. The real issue here is on what basis they did so. If they are to ignore the EPL, and rightly so, they must de facto have their own (better) rationale. But that wasn't evident in the otherwise pretty forensic published findings.

Maybe Burnham is trying to get to this in a roundabout way. Personally I'd have preferred him to focus on why a points deduction is a remedy for something called Profit and Sustainability which by title and intent, appears to be trying to prevent clubs from getting into financial difficulties (and on the way, pulling up the drawbridge). Wage limits or transfer embargos might have made a bit more sense.

As others have said, we'd better hope we have our ducks in a row for 22/3. I suspect that will be tight, as we continued to buy players, but we have also lost a fair bit of wages and sold players too. And we will be losing a particularly large loss making year, albeit along with some of the Covid mitigations.

Most mainstream media carry the original letter, some carry the EPL response (some with "EPL hit back" strapline). Only 2 carry his follow up. This esteemed organ, and The Echo, which we'd expect.

Good job I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Back to watching the fake moon landing documentary.

Did you see the full response letter from the Premier League? From what I saw, Andy Burnham snipped only one paragraph.

It would be interesting to see what the whole thing said.

Very tongue in cheek but I can almost hear them.

Meeting opens…

Commissioner A: "The Premier League said deduct 12 points. What do you think?"

Commissioner B: "Sounds a bit harsh for one offence and the cost of a half decent player."

Commissioner C: "I agree, just deduct 10. They're plucky Everton and will take their medicine.

All Commissioners: "That sounds a good idea. 10 points. Meeting adjourned. Now, shall we pop out for a spot of lunch and cocktails? There are some great places near the canal."

Tongue out of cheek. The more I look at this, the more it appears to have been a near foregone conclusion that changed its course at the 11th hour. We can fight it despite attempts to mute our voices. We shall not be moved… spirit is required.

Regardless of opinions on the individual – and he has a controversial history in the game – but having read the comments from Keith Wyness and, although from an Everton perspective, he wasn't relating directly to our case, he mentioned that during his time, Everton had one lawyer and compared that to Manchester City allegedly having 30 on their case with the Premier League. Apples and oranges, I suppose?

Sorry to revert to military metaphors. Admittedly, they have a lot more cases to answer to, but that is a "platoon" of lawyers.

I hope Everton have a few more lined up rather than leave it to a young Lieutenant in the Napoleonic Wars given the "privilege" of leading the Forlorn Hope charge to make the breach but facing certain death (Google it if you don't know about it).

For those who watched Blackadder Goes Forth, the episode when George acts as defence for Blackadder springs to mind!!!

Dramatic for a Monday morning and in my own way, trying to be lighthearted.

As much as they have made an example of us here, Everton can make an example back. As long as they start fighting back. We've tried being compliant and worked with them. It didn't work. They shafted us Just get it right, resource it, make our case and fight it.

And get it right on the pitch, which we mostly have been doing. That will be more than two fingers in the face of adversity. Regardless of any successful appeal, we can turn this around.

Totally random, but I've just seen on the BBC that they collapsed the Fiddler's Ferry towers. I didn't realise it was opened in 1971, the year I was born. I hope that isn't an omen.

Apologies. Hopefully a bit of light entertainment. I'll get back to football and Everton.

Remember where this club comes from. Let's try and forget (difficult) the deliberate detaching from the most passionate support in the country by the then board. They are gone now.

Now is the time to fuel off that passion as a unified club and stand up for who we are. They may not know it as they've probably only been following football since 1993. Following in the loosest sense. That's aimed at the authorities and Sky bandwagon jumpers, not genuine football supports who were born after that period. We are not plucky Everton. Stand up and be counted.

Good Morning by the way.

I hope our legal team are reading it???

My initial email (27 November):

Dear Mr Collins,

I realise this is not a Folkestone and Hythe constituency matter but I write to you as a constituent myself and primarily a football supporter.

Contacting the Premier League (EPL) itself as a humble member of the public brings no satisfactory response – simply a curt but polite standardised response which fails to answer any questions or offer any explanations whatsoever.

I understand the commercial objectives of businesses – and top flight football has become more of a business than a sport in modern times – but as a mature football supporter I am deeply concerned as to how the behaviour and performance of the EPL seems to be eroding the enjoyment of the game for thousands of like minded fans of the game, simply it appears for financial benefit of a few.

I am interested to know your opinion on the broadly accepted injustice of the extent of the penalty imposed on Everton Football Club by a so-called independent commission who actually seemed to be writing the rules in discrete collaboration with the EPL.

The sanctions will have a resounding impact not only on the club itself by threatening the very existence of a famous sporting institution, but also the local population and businesses across Liverpool city. The penalty even exceeds that imposed for going into financial administration which defies all logic. Whilst I agree that the club has transgressed the accepted rules, it was not, on the face of it, a deliberate attempt to cheat the rules but the result of quite appalling business management at the highest level.

The sanctions imposed, and indeed threatened, are going to affect the "man on the street" infinitely more than the transgressors themselves – one of whom of course is now deceased.

There is a groundswell of support for Everton Football Club and I ask will you be joining the many senior figures who are now publicly questioning the decisions and seeking explanations as to why they have imposed this penalty?

I understand that you are a strong advocate for a new independent regulator of football and are concerned about the future of football as we know it. Parliament are themselves considering establishing an independant commission to oversee the governance of the game and it looks as though the EPL, in attempting to demonstrate that it does not need or welcome outside influence, has managed to shoot itself resoundingly in the foot this time.

I could expound my thoughts further but I think I have made my point so will sign off just by saying I look forward to hearing any thoughts or comments you might care to come back with.

Yours faithfully

Kim V Vivian

His reply...

Dear Mr Vivian,

Thank you for your email. Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding. I understand that Everton have appealed the decision, and we must await the outcome of that appeal.

One reason I support an independent regulator for football is to ensure transparency in the way that rules are imposed, and to ensure consistency in this.

Thank you once again for taking the time to write.

Kind regards,

Damian Collins OBE MP

Reading between his lines, it seems he thinks there is not much transparency right now.

I have also wrote to the Secretary of State for Sport concerning my views and think the more letters we send the better.