Villa in talks with Everton over Dobbin deal

I wouldn’t like to see Lewis leave.

I wouldn’t either Peter. Not sure why we would sell one young lad and buy another for 10 million??

I also want to see him stay for a while longer, we haven't seen enough of him.

Apparently, we need to raise £25m to avoid another points deduction.

Don't believe a word of this, utterly paper talk.

PSR work around

I read somewhere today Col that we're actually ok.

Whether this has anything to do with the Castore deal I don't know but the article said for the period that'll be looked at this time our loss is £98m, so within the £105m limit. 🤞

This would seem extremely unlikely! But I wouldn't be surprised to see Dobbin leave.

I read the same Brian

I’ve heard similar things, Bri. Apparently, we’ve increased our commercial revenue so we might not have to sell to buy. Or at least, we’re not completely skint
.

And Onana is only now in the books at £18m so selling for £40m will still generate £22m profit.

When’s Beto money got to be paid? This will have to be factored in sometime.

Beto’s getting paid in oats and carrots, Iain.

I see where John Egan is back in full training with Sheffield Utd after missing half the season with an achilles injury. A quality centreback, the Irish international, is out of contract this summer, and would be a great squad addition.

injury

Picking up a few solid but underwhelming players like Egan makes a lot of sense Christy. Not brilliant but plenty of experience and decent low cost cover.

Rumours, rumours and more rumours.

To be expected of course but Young and Harrison will get signed for at least one season especially as Mykolenko is crocked again but unfortunately Young is now too slow for a competent full back and who could forget the three penalties he got lucky with in one game alone.

Harrison could still be an asset if only off the bench.

I don't see Dobbin making it with us beyond being on the periphery of the 1st team, so a deal where we scratch Villa's back and pay around £10m on their midfielder, lad, and they pay a similar amount for Dobbin...It would be helpful for both clubs PSR.

PSR navigation in full swing and I’m all for it p

Knowing how we operate, we will buy their player for £12M and sell Dobbin to them for £2M.

the great thing about this is we can now take up united on their advice that we get realistic about Jarrad's price.
Ninety million, dickheads.

Laughing out loud at that one, Colin!

Harrison's wages are too high for a player with 3 assists last season. Compare with Alfie Doughty of Luton with 8 assists for 7.5k/week.

We buy the lad from Villa for £10m over 5 years helping with Villa finacial fair play getting £10m straight profit.
We do a similar deal with Dobbin and also get pure profit.
Imo we will see more of these deals over the coming years as a way around the fair play situation.

Also Dyche gets a hard working grafter, Emre gets a pacey winger, seems like win win for all concerned. *maybe not for us as fans like !

Ed, you keep bringing up Doughty and he's fine player, but he plays the opposite side. So it's not either/or with Harrison.

What I fail to understand in all this amateur financial wrangling is how is it possible to be selling off players when the club is up for sale? Surely a prospective buyer would be put off watching the prime assets being flogged off and the owner still expecting the same price as if he had retained them. Who would buy a second hand car if it had the steering wheel and the front passenger seat missing. So much rubbish is tossed around by people who have no more idea of running a business than the present owner.

Bob
I’m sure Dan Friedkin is not interested in the minutiae and layers of management all operate within budgets that this would probably fall within.

As others have said this may just be click/ bait but it is a way around psr and that cocky bastard at United.

Why stop at paying £10m for the lad from Villa?! If the PSR hole is £25m...Let Villa buy Dobbin for £25m and we buy their player for £25m...It would be clever way to get round the finances for both clubs and a nice FU to the PL.

Think Ant@23 is spot on.

Dobbin is probably not a Dyche type player as his main asset may be carrying the ball which is not something Dyche really wants as it risks losing posession in bad areas.

If we can swap an unwanted winger for a hard worker in the middle and get some breathing room on PSR in the process then it could be canny work.

The most important thing for Everton, is that they don’t suddenly become realistic, and end up selling our best asset to Manchester United, for a knock down fee.

Only just got more playing time than the third choice keeper. Still, the Academy must be nearly empty by now which is the way to cut costs without finding anyone to blame.

Tony, fortunately Thelwell will be doing the negotiations if they take place. Not Bill.

There is a decent amount of recruitment going on in the academy, Alan. Loney, Graham, the kid from Arsenal. Seems a stepping up rather than a stepping down.

I could understand if selling Dobbin was to avoid transgressing the P&S rules, but to sell him for £10m and buy the Vila players for £10m doesn't improve ours or Villas position regarding P&S rules. What I find really worrying is Dyche and Thelwell have little or no interest in bringing through our own youngsters, and if thats because we arent producing talented youngsters then surely the DOF has to carry the can for that.
I will just say that if we fall foul of P&S again then that is indefensible, and should that be the case I would think the Premier league would view it as a club completely ignoring the rules it signed up to.
Also still no news about the friedkin offer getting exclusivity from Moshiri, why?

If a manager like Emery can see something in Dobbin, why can't Dyche?

Not surprised he wants to go, rather than coming on with 2 mins to go for us.

Paul, why is Emery letting Tim go? Aside from the wrangling overP&S rules I think Villa and Everton are just swapping one lad with potential for another lad with same.

I like Dobbin and would prefer him to stay but I think Sam (28) and Anthony (23) explain the situation quite well.

Of course the deals between Everton and Villa improves both clubs PSR

Convenient 😂. Both clubs in psr issues sell academy graduates for £10m.

Shhh, no one will notice...

Ian, 38,

Could sell the academy players for £10m each then loan them back for a season…….

All above board..

Well if the transfers between the two clubs is just a con and a way to get around PSR like many on here think. Then I'm sure the premier League will be all over it

It is if it's arms length.

Juventus did get done for inflating deals too much. So it needs to be done carefully.

It would be unusual if the epl decided to pick on us given ffp, niasse dive ban, academy ban for tapping up, player banned for life for gambling etc...

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/juventus-deducted-15-points-punished-artificially-inflating-players-value-capital-gains/bltf7583e876057d42c

Brian 33 - it does mate. Both clubs get an immediate £10m psr gain on selling a graduate.

And then if each clubs give them 5 year deals, each club takes a £2m psr hit from the amortisation being expensed to the P&L.

It doesn't change the cash flow, but it does change the P&l, balance sheet and psr calculation.

It's what is wrong with psr. Clubs have to sell the soul of the club, by moving on local talent to cover costs and mistakes of past big transfers and contracts.

Ian 42

Thanks for the explanation of how it would benefit both clubs, but according to reports we have to find around £25m to stay the right side of P&S rules, and this has to be done before the 30th June. I think the rules don't allow players at the Euros to be involved in any transfer discussions so that would rule out Onana, so it looks like either DCL or Branthwaite are the only likely sales to appease P&S.

Brian #33 "but to sell him for £10m and buy the Vila players for £10m doesn't improve ours or Villas position regarding P&S rules"

It does if they're academy lads that walked through the clubs respective doors as schoolboys. Even if they were signed for GBP 1 ~ 2 million each it's about the PROFIT that is made from selling the player.

Both clubs get to book GBP 10 million profit and thereby wipe GBP 10 million off their losses.

Brian#43.
Brian, have another search as there are multiple reports that we're at £98m loss for the period being looked at.
That means we're £7m within PSR rules.

Too cheap that for Dobbin, he’s definitely worth £15 million! Seriously though, what beneficiaries of PSR, these young players are about to become if they both receive five year contracts worth around £10 million each, before bonuses.

How can we have made a 98 million loss over the last 3 years?. We must have sold close to 200 million worth of players.

I don't know enough and haven't seen enough of Dobbin, but I know many wise Evertonians rate him.

I think who Tony is referring to is Branthwaite. Total class and we should do everything we can to keep him.

My sisters came down overnight. One from Liverpool, the other who now lives in Northern Ireland. Both Evertonians. Tony and Brian Murray know why.

They had me up earlier than the dogs having travelled through the night. One asked me if we can keep Jarrad. I regrettably said that I don't think so. I hope I'm wrong.

Liverpool made a habit of selling their best players at high cost in the context of the time, but reinvested wisely at lower cost by finding gems and progressed.

I hate to use them as an example, but if we do sell, we must reinvest. If, and I hope we don't, but if we get the right price for what he is worth, it buys us 3 or 4 players.

The cost of the stadium is something I can’t get my head around. It just seems like everything is getting thrown on the stadium, (777 loans ect) when it’s obvious the club also have a lot of other operating costs?

Paul#47.
Yeh but we've paid out around £150m on incoming transfers over the same period Paul.
I know that's a net profit of £50m but the club is simply more expensive to run than the amount of money it brings in at the moment.

Fabrizio says deal agreed, medical to follow.

If this is a psr deal regarding financial rules and Masters and the Premier League start to show interest in club transfer business, then I wouldn’t put it past them to start to putting valuations on players themselves, to close yet another loophole to stop clubs having any escape from their rules.

There’s no such rules about not being able to sign players at the euros

Brian 43 - I don't think anyone really knows what we need to find on psr.

We don't know what the position on interest is on the loans we've taken on and whether the interest will be for stadium or operating costs - and if theyre allowable for psr.

Whilst I doubt the reports have taken into account the psr gains on Gray, iwobi, Cannon, Simms, Samuel Smith that will have been booked in this year's accounts as they sales occurred since 30th june 2023. Or the drop in wages and termination costs from prior year.

If we sell before 30th June, it'll answer the question I guess.

Mike 24 Doughty and Harrison are both left footed wingers so why not compare them?

It seems obvious that Dyche doesnt rate Dobbin quite good enough for the 1st team, I just hope we don't end up more threadbare than last season.
I think Brathwaite is certain to be sold Onana is another likely to leave.
We also have two pensioners in football terms in the squad, if we have a bad run with injuries we will be in trouble again.

Nearly all the above is guesswork I know, so we have to trust Dyche in what occurs, also include the owner whoever that might be in what traspires

Worrying if Tarkowski gets injured. Paper thin squad. I don’t see, unfortunately, Brainthwaite or Onana being here.

Robert(#32); Didn't the article on Warrington name 10 youngsters who would be leaving the Academy this year?

Onana is two years into a 5 year deal so 40% of his purchase price is already in our PSR. Anything over £18m is profit to reduce our losses for PSR.
Yes to those explaining above. We bank £10m for selling Lewis and Villa take a £2m hit in 2024-25. They bank £9m for selling Tim and we take a £1,8m hit in 2024-25. If us and Villa really wanted to fiddle they system we should sell them for £60m each and then say to Masters, based on potential.
And for those of you wondering, degrees in Accountancy are normally a Batchelor of Arts not a Batchelor of Science.

Alan # 58, yes but so what? Countless youngsters have been released by academies this summer - as is the case every summer with all academies.

And Robert no doubt a whole lot more this time next year.

Some believe our academies churn out premier league players on a regular basis.
Sadly ToffeeWeb is a bit out of detail but there at least 21 players in the "First Team Squad" list who are out of contract this time next year among the U23s - including Lewis Dobbin. So his sale will obviate the need to negotiate a new contract with him and prevent ToffeeWebbers moaning in 2027 over why we gave Dobbin a new deal and he is now 24 and still not made it and these deadweights are still with the club.

The academy is like gold panning. Lots of sifting the sand and every now and again a gold nugget turns up.

Exclusivity for Friedkin now in place. 👍💙

Those nuggets seem to be few and far between as we've had more success at Sheff Utd, Carlisle and Barnsley while those through the Academy who've played regular first team are Tom Davies and before him, Wayne Rooney, Terry Hibbet? Perhaps it is all panned out.

Ed #55, because which foot they use is less relevant than the position they play. Doughty plays on the left and Harrison plays on the right. Buying Doughty doesn't replace Harrison.

Strange move for Dobbin. Not sure he’ll get much playing time there. Perhaps they’ll send him out on loan first?

Phil @59. Indeed, I have always found the best accountants to be very creative and imaginative!

Alan @63.

Terry Hibbert played for Leeds and Newcastle but I don't think that he came through our academy.

Tony Hibbert (no relation as far as I know) certainly did though.

This is a great deal. And so is the Tim Iroegbunam deal because both deals are two fingers up to the Premier League.

They're both academy players so by selling them we and Villa get £10M against PSR.

It's a loophole and we're exploiting it. Dobbin isn't going to get a game at Everton and Iroegbunam isn't going to get a game at Villa so simply swap them with a fee both ways and it's quids in for everyone.

Plus both players might get a bit more of a chance to impress and/or get a game or a loan out. There was always going to have to be some sacrificial lambs and Dobbin is one of them.

Some of us liked him but we haven't really lost anything in these deals. In fact we've gained a player who could be of some use and we've circumvented financial rules.

Finally, some sense at the club!

Agree100% James. 👏

The Echo are saying that, despite the possible sale of Dobbin to Villa, we will still be in breach of the P&S rules, so further sales will be needed before 30 June to make us compliant.

There are 2 players who so far haven't signed new contracts, maybe we should be looking to offload them both rather than allowing them to run down their contracts. Something this club has been guilty of in the past.

Hopefully both players are a success, James, because sometimes all that a talented young player needs, is for someone to believe in them and give them a proper chance.