Pickford and England through to second successive Euros final

I am pessimistic because when I think of Netherlands I think of:

1988 thrashing of England.
Last minute Wim Kieft winner of Eire at Euro 88.
Koeman's foul and freekick versus England before USA 1994.
Koeman getting away without a red card for Feyernoord v Everton.
Nations Lague final defeat to Koeman's Holland after we beat Swiss on penalties in semi.
Koeman's negative impact on my mental health as Everton manager.
Saint VVD versus villain Pickford dynamic with a corrupt ref.

Meanwhile I am also concerned about Southgate, his tactics, selection, loser mentality, failure to win anything. Poor form of Foden, Walker, Kane etc.

But I guess we will see what happens.

The home secretary says we need to tighten the laws on crossbows: fuck me, what have we become?

That's actually impressive.

So why do I feel he's holding back this squad? Gareth, release the Kraken. Move forward, up the pitch, with intent and pace. Please don't dally and look for possession. Like, please do the right thing.

C&A man will bring back Guehi for Konsa but the only point of controvery – oooooooooooohhhhhhhhh 😗😗😗😗😗 controversy (Southgate and controversy go together like Swizterland and courage on the battlefield and high seas, except, of course, when the never-to-be-forgiven tepid twat taps a penalty straight at the German keeper) – is whether or not Luke Shaw starts, who was arguably in the running to be one of the best on the pitch for his half-hour or so on Sunday.

But gormless will probably stick with Saka because that would be two changes. And what would we do with Saka if Shaw does start? At which point Southgate starts to get awful headaches and tiptoes up to bed with his ovaltine, asprin x2, non-addictive sleeping pill, and his well-thumbed copy of Sean Dyche and Massimialiano Allegri's co-authored manual on how to win matches by turning round and looking at your own goal.

Even if they get past the Dutch it's hard to see them beating the Spaniards but stranger things happen in cup competitions.

C'mon Pickers, c'mon England

Although I'm no big England fella, I do appreciate the happiness and morale boosting energy that a trophy would bring to the English, and God knows so many of them could do with some sunshine in their lives, if only for a little while.

Just cant be arsed watching ex-players who systematically failed themselves try to tell us where the current team is going wrong, so I will stay on laptop until the teams are out on the pitch

This is going to pens isn’t it?

I keep trying to say 'us' or 'we', but too many nations and good Evertonians on this site to say that.

You're like that fecking flute riddler jock on League of Gentlemen. Stop this cat-and-mouse game. Which team are you talking about?

"Transparency is the best form of politeness". (Catherine the Great).

Pickford take two: cry baby Van Dijk. Take him out for good this time.

I am hoping for a repeat of that as we've endured so much misery from Koeman and his cronies – it is long overdue.

Let’s squeeze these pips and make some orange juice.

Fucking Ian Darke and Landon Donovan on Fox.

Pickford will get the blame for Rice's incompetence.

Dude he got every bit of that.

Not sure that's a pen though.

So the weekly hip brush that causes Salah and co to dive is a pen but that is not?

Kane completed his shot then kicked his foot.

Never a penalty.

How is that not a pen? Someone explain the "it's not a pen" position?

Whether the shot comes off or not is NOT a factor in a PK decision!

100 per cent pen. That would have been a red in the middle of the pitch. Got nothing of the ball, high boot, made contact.

Anywho OFF THE GOAL LINE! Wtf

Hope that clears it up! 😂🤙🏻

Defender lifted his foot, Kane followed through his shot and made the contact.

Like with Mike Gaynes regarding politics, we'll agree to disagree and move on, smiling.

Clogger sent flying. Come on now, be consistent. Could have broken his neck.

Whole crowd: "SHOOOOOOTTTTTTT!!!"

The argumentative tactic of comparing apples and oranges really doesn't work well. Keep your eye on the ball.

But you knew that already

Just when you thought the England Fans had started to learn a thing or two about respect…

Foden on fire, but Mainoo brilliant too. And I though it was a pen - anywhere else on the pitch and the ref would have called it straight away.

Foden great. Jude doing his stuff. Walker has a duracel up his arse. Mainoo Wow.

Can't see the Dutch playing worse second half.

Need to keep it going.

Debatable penalty, but I guess if that's a defender or midfielder clearing and they get caught like that it's a foul and a card every time. To quote HMHB:

Oh you can't put your foot up in Europe
You can't show your studs on the ‘nent
They take a dim view of a slightly raised shoe
So think on if you're up against Ghent

Van Dijk og for the winner in front of the orange wall, 2-1 England over the mayonnaise on chips potheads!

Going down 1-0 might have been the best thing that could have happened. Hopefully Southgate isn't telling them to protect the draw.

Neville says it was never a penalty.

Wrighty claims is was reckless and deffo a penalty.

The studs were up and showing but if that penalty is given against Everton, I'm incandescent.

Shaw for Trippier makes sense.

The viewing will be just glorious for the neutral. Does England 'pull an England' and choke? Do they go on to find a winner? If they go up does Gareth protect the lead? If so, do they then concede and the Southgate crucifixion begins?

Just glorious viewing incoming.

This one's unique to be sure!

Did Shaw start??? Or did he come on at half and if so, for who??

I didn't notice him the entire first half? Who was pulled???

Why would you make a sub when you've played much better than the opponent and played the best half of the tournament?

Did someone get hurt?

There'll be other nights for him

Did Poland sneak in a few Prussian Calvinists?

Brilliant turn and finish.

So lethally accurate. Fantastic play.

Southgate's bottom line record not too shabby...

Tactically good from the Dutch in the second half.

Match-winning subs.

Much, much better display from England and really pleased for Watkins.

Good on Southgate - he did adjust things for a better first half performance - and he was brave to bring Watkins on for his pace in behind later on. Brilliant.

Watkins actually strikes it as the defender crosses in front of him. Kicks it through his legs — in so many cases, the defender gets a touch.

I've said throughout this tournament – England may have been boring and predictable but they've been solid and calm at the back. They won't go toe to toe with Spain as others have. Good luck England.

I'd 100% start the veteran Kane in a massive game like against Spain. Sub at 70 or so. You need a veteran on and Kane is very capable of scoring!

Awful stuff, a really poor refereeing performance but a moment of magic to win it.

Anything can happen in a one-off game but hopefully the Spanish will get the job done by a couple of goals.

We have previous!

But in my opinion, Spain are better and should win.

Well in Pickford, well in England.

England are not, win or lose Sunday. Get over it.

It's 90 minutes. Just don't bloody play for penalties.

Concerned about Kane and Bellingham though – who both look as if their legs have had it for the season.

Your false diplomatic tone does not cut it, Senor Hewey. You did what you did. Please stay away Sunday if you continue in your attention-seeking graceless way.

No one wants to read it.

Rest up and try not to have any sleepless nights worrying about England winning between now and weekend, it's not good for you.

Surely England will win this trophy.

The Hand of God is with Southgate.

I know exactly how poor Ireland are and strangely being told that doesn't bother me in the slightest. Why would it?

I don't want England to win I can only assume for similar nonsensical reasons that you don't want Liverpool to win. Bitter blues all round.

Good luck to them.

Watkins scored a beauty.

Kane was anonymous again.

Maybe I was expecting too much.

The bicycle kick just a game before last? Kinda big there!

But according to "I love David (thick as pigshit) Seamen" Lee Dixon, it's a save he should be making.

Right, Lee, yes, of course it is, and can you elaborate on that.

What that moron has against Pickford is beyond me, he's proved himself time and time again not just for us but for his country and still these morons criticise him.

On another note the faces on them pair of arrogant Dutch fuckers Van Dijk and Koeman was priceless – well worth tuning in for.

Good luck to our Jordan on Sunday.

Full disclosure, I'm half-Irish, I am an unrepentant nationalist, ashamed of British history, like to see Ireland beat England in rugby anyway and anything else other than footy – and sometimes then. But that was uncalled-for, mate.

At the last minute, the FA switched the game to Wembley and we had to make do with West Germany v Soviet Union.

The FA wouldn't get away with a stunt like that these days!

That was an absolutely fantastic finish from Ollie Watkins, at a time when the Dutch were beginning to look the more likely team. A real centre-forward's goal.

I have no time for Ronald Koeman but he was very magnanimous in defeat and had similar feelings to my own in the paragraph above!!

Looking forward to Savage on 606 right now. He's a sort of Welsh Shane. Sorry, Shane, couldn't resist!

England are on the easy side of the draw. They had a weak group and were average at best for the majority of the tournament Which part isn't true?

I'm an Everton fan so I'm on this site. I'd have preferred if Holland won tonight and I'd prefer if Spain win on Sunday for various reasons.

I didn't insult anyone or slag off players for the club they play for.

True to form: Savage, never a penalty; Sutton, yes it was.

Patience.

But hats off, a great goal by Watkins through the defender's legs. Instinct ,Tony, a good striker knows where the goal is blindfolded, half a chance taken.

Another early start on Monday for us in New Zealand!

England into the final and whatever you say about Southgate and his tactics, it's got the team to the last game. Need luck in tournaments and England have certainly ridden theirs so far.

What you left out was how well England played in the first half and how much better they were against the Swiss. How much better they seem with three at the back. And, playing poorly or not, they have a number of exceptional players who can turn games in a flash. Also, England have a very deep bench.

I meant the having a pop at Senor Hewitt stuff when I said that it was not bitter.

I thought Pickford set himself awkwardly for their goal, but we bounced back...

That penalty decision baffles me, had it gone against us, I would be furious...

But England played football tonight, committed, passionate, great movement and some joined-up passing, a joy to watch first half.

Southgate is the dog's doo-dahs tonight, but he might have subbed earlier and that could have been more convincing.
But what a result.

Spain, however… wow, let's see…

Watkins is quicker, more nimble, mobile, gets in behind the defence. Better at chasing balls pumped forwards and for his height is a great header of the ball.

Kane, I think, looks below his best and off the pace. He might be better as an impact 20 minute sub and also on the pitch for pens. He tends to look sluggish as the second half drags on. And he drops deep and sometimes is quite simply not there when a ball is played into the box.

Watkins v Spain or Toney?

Very good point about Bellingham, Dave C, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him become the match-winner on Sunday, although maybe it's Foden, whose luck in front of goal has got to change soon.

The kid from Man Utd played an incredible game for one so young, and only showed naivety once in what was otherwise a 10 out of 10 performance.

Yes, things have fallen into place for England and in that respect they have had a bit of luck but you need some luck to win tournaments. Spain got lucky in extra time against Germany who spurned 2 chances late on before Spain won it. They also got lucky against France last night with the French missing 2 glorious chances late on too.

England have done what they have needed to do and shown tremendous resilience in the process. The have grown into the tournament and got better as things progress. They beat a good side tonight and fully deserved it.

I fully expect them to beat Spain on Sunday too, England are getting better and will enjoy the space against Spain.

Colin, tribalism rears its head in every Everton game, we're just on the same side and we tell each other how we're right and the other ones aren't.

Ian, it's not an England thread. Check the title.

By the way, Watkins man of the match is worth a mention. How?

But to be clear, I said he was poor, not biased. We all have our bad days.

"England have done what they have needed to do and shown tremendous resilience in the process. They have grown into the tournament and got better as things progress. They beat a good side tonight and fully deserved it."

Neil nails it there. That's the key, getting better as the tournament develops and the team develops with a shit-show or two along the way.

The Italians have been past masters at this. Like Neil, I think it's significant that England have clearly improved over the last two matches while Spain did not reach. the heights of their group games in their semi-final or quarter-final, though, to be fair, they were up against tougher teams.

End of Koeman hoodoo, first final outside England, and suddenly we are now what Germany used to be – the last-ditch heart-breakers of other teams.

Suddenly we have real character. Don't know what will happen Sunday but I'm enjoying tonight.

The easy thing makes me laugh too, mate.

Austria finished above France and Holland, Georgia above Portugal. Romania over Belgium. Do we dismiss those results and say “Well, Belgium used to be good, Portugal are supposed to be good, so we will take them on instead”?

Whoever got to whatever stage got their on merit ahead of other teams — no matter how great they might look on paper.

I enjoyed the first half, knew once the ref went to the TV screen that he was going to give a penalty, and as usual I just shrugged my shoulders and shook my head and thought to myself that the game that I once knew and loved is simply not the same for me anymore.

Spain though? Jees, they have looked good. Still, a hard-working gutsy England with a bit of luck, I can get behind that.

And a medal for Pickford. Might keep him at the club. Or might give him a taste for glory.

God, I'm a Jobe's witness.

I get your point but in this day and age of what is a penalty I honestly thought that was pretty non-controversial. Everton have conceded numerous far more contentious ones.

But the reality of the modern interpretation is there are no accidents, no fifty-fifty balls.

If there's contact it goes the way of the attacker unless of course a goalie is involved as no one is allowed to breath on them without it being a foul.

By modern standards to me that was a straight-forward penalty.

The opposition doesn't even press him as they know he won't lose it. Short forward passes are the hardest thing in football. He does it better than anyone.

Pickford 7 (Good game)
Walker 8 (Very good)
Stones 9 (Best centre-half in the competition)
Guehi 8 (Block on Weghorst after slipping – wonderful)
Trippier 7 (Did okay)
Rice 7 (Not at his best but good enough)
Mainoo 8 (Man Utd have a gem on their hands)
Saka 7 (Always a problem for Ake)
Foden 8 (Great first half)
Kane 8 (Still not at his best – great penalty)
Bellingham 8 (Still not at his best, More to come on Sunday methinks)
Shaw 7 (Looks rusty)
Palmer 8 (Great pass for the assist)
Watkins 8 (Great run, great first touch and second touch Wow!)

Koeman 0 (Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke!)

Yeah, I didn't see much of Mainoo last season but he's been phenomenal. Makes the idea we couldn't replace Phillips seem ridiculous.

There is an argument to make that England have more exceptional players than Spain - the seventeen-year-and-one-day-old on Sunday lad is, of course, genius. My hunch is that a combined England/Spain team would have more England players in it.

Morata!

Jack, of the 11 who started, I would go:

Pickford 8
Trippier 5
Stones 8
Walker 7
Guehi 7
Saka 8
Rice 6
Mainoo 9
Foden 8
Bellingham 5
Kane 6

Paul Ferry,

Yeah I agree on that. The scary thing though is the two Spanish youngsters could be around for the next 20 years. But with young players (16-23) England and Spain have an edge over anyone in the world.

Pickford was steady, but not really tested. He can still produce those outstanding saves he is capable of against Spain.

What is so refreshing is how they are all so calm, collected and 'traditionally non-english' in how they play. Could you have imagined England bossing possession against the Dutch? And the Dutch resorting to 'throwing the big man on'. It's a difficult ask to get an international team playing well (you don't get the time like at club level), but England have some vast riches. Whatever happens Sunday, there's a lot to look forward to.

I hope the gozzy eyed capitalist twat keeps being as lucky as he has been!

Pickford did have a couple of really good saves. I think you're just used to it now so take it for granted mate.

We can hang traitors in these United States, the world's greatest ever democracy where "alabaster cities gleam" and someone who grew up in dire poverty - Jamie Crowley - can buy a house.

Exactly Paul (271). That is what happened in the cup final. The more I think of it, looking at Liam's list of young players, England do have a real chance of lifting the trophy, getting better from one game to the next.

Watkins's goal has been officially timed at 89 minutes, 59 seconds.

Great day at the test match too!

I get your point. Pickford is starting to make it look easy, which is an ominous sign for non-England supporters. I can't help but feel that the trials and tribulations at Everton have prepared Pickford for his present situation.

On England, that was a cast iron 100% penalty. Foot and studs up in the penalty area is dangerous play – if he had made contact with Kane's knee it could have seriously damaged him.

In midfield, the tactical compromises needed to include Foden and Bellingham remind me of the Gerrard and Lampard saga that held England back over several years. Also, having a mobile forward who can make runs behind an average Spain defence would make a big difference.

If Southgate had the cojones to select Cole Palmer and Ollie Watkins against Spain, then I would be confident that we can win the Euros. Instead, he will pick Bellingham, Foden and the statuesque Kane. He is so immobile you could hang your washing off him.

Will have to be playing to our utmost best to beat Spain, I think.

For me, it's Rice that's underutilised in this squad. But who cares? We're into the final and Gordon, having had his holidays ruined, isn't even in the frame for a cameo appearance. Brilliant!

On the penalty decision, on numerous occasions, once at Goodison versus Wolves, a defender has been in the act of clearing the ball when an opponent has put his foot/leg in the way resulting in him getting kicked. The defender could do nothing about it but a penalty was given. By that reckoning, it was a penalty.

It wasn't even contentious, is exactly why I'm losing interest in a sport that is losing its way regarding physical contact, imo.

The other shout about Everton suffering a lot worse decisions than last night's is another reason why I have become disillusioned because this is something I hear on a regular basis.

Every single team gets bad decisions (some more than others, I know) but football has definitely developed a “fuck them” attitude with “everyone” prepared to take “anything” that goes their way nowadays, and it's just very off-putting because it means cheating, and “very subjective” decisions made because they can now go back and look at a television have become acceptable.

I don't mind getting beaten by a better team (I never did) but I could never tolerate getting beaten by a cheat, and football is now littered by cheating.

Were you serious MG??

Get up off the floor you cheating tart!

Who made contact with whom? I hate them when they get given outside the box but VAR doesn't get involved then so the ref just sees contact and hears a cry.

As us Evertonians know Kane does cheat/make the most of contact. Yes,, it may have hurt but he knew what he was doing.

Try and be fair, folks. If that was given against Everton or England, what would you say? If you'd say "Defo a penalty," then so be it. But I doubt you would.

Are you saying that the kick from the defender at Goodison made contact with the forward and thus a penalty was given? If so, aren't you then providing an argument for a foul by Kane last night?

I don't think it was a foul by either Kane or Dumfries.

Personally, I agree with ex-ref and Evertonian Mark Halsey who said it was a ridiculous decision which did not require VAR intervention and should not have been given.

However, the really entertaining bit was the news that the ref in question has served a ban for match-fixing. You couldn't make it up.

Not because 'there's contact' but because of the way he does it. He could have thrown himself across the line of the shot to block it but he didn't – he stretched and tried to get to the ball with the sole of his foot.

And it wasn't just Kane making contact. Dumfries is going straight through the line of the ball and Kane's foot. He ends up a few yards past Kane - that's not a block, that's a challenge.

It's clumsy and it's pretty dangerous. No malice, but a bad split-second decision.

If England win the Euros, there is a good chance that Southgate and Kane will be knighted.

I don't know if you're on TW, Steve (or if anyone knows him?), but you're a star.

I very rarely listen to TalkShite! :-)

In the past years he has gone from "Why did did we sign him?" to "Thank the Lord we signed him!"

Reddit: Another Finals appearance for Pickford

Who said football fans are a fickle bunch?

Why should it not be because it's in the penalty area?

Yes, Kane made a meal of it, something which nearly every player does these days (much to my own disgust), but that's a side issue IMO.

He goes down three or four times a game, each time holding his right ankle, automatically. Some of the other England players are starting to do the same – Saka threw himself on the floor trying for a foul, the referee ignored him, should have booked him.

Years ago we used to accuse foreign players of diving and cheating… blimey, we didn't half learn from them, we are miles better than them now.

Of course it was a penalty — the ref and VAR told us so — them's the rules now, Ernie!

Sir Gareth and Sir Harry. Absolutely guaranteed if they win. Never will have so much been so undeserved by so few.

When I used to play, someone was taking a shot, I put my leg in there so he kicked me instead of the ball.

Who gets the free kick?

The guy taking the shot. I then couldn't walk for a week.

Btw football is not a contact sport, despite protestations of the old guard. Contact in football is incidental, not required or allowed.

I mean, I was a bit of a clogger myself but I admit, it's cheating just as much as diving, but you're actually trying to get someone hurt which is worse.

It was an experienced referee who gave the decision after a closer look on a monitor and that is all we can ask for.

'Southgate probably told them them to play badly and try and snatch a last gasp winner so he can play victim if during the half a few fans shake their heads and say "Oh goodness we can play better than this!"'

Sort of works :)

Taking the lead in the abolition of slavery?
Magna Carta, habeas corpus and the presumption of innocence?
The social reforms of the 19th Century?
Inventing pretty much all of the modern world, such as antibiotics, jet engines and civil nuclear power, computers and the internet, etc?
Two years standing alone against the Nazis while the Americans sat on their hands and the Russians actively helped them?

It can't be denied that there was a British Empire, at a time when most countries were trying to have an Empire. But still, it always feels good to judge the past by the moral standards of today.

Actually, there is good and bad in all countries' history, but there is no need for you to feel ashamed of what other people did in the past.

With the fine nucleus of class players Southgate was given I suppose they are not out of place in the final.

However, they have struggled but made the most of good fortune, arguably being in the easier side of the draw and having an unconvincing manager.

That is the way I saw it too. Before it went to VAR, I said to my wife that if that challenge had been outside the box it would be a free kick. Thankfully VAR got it right this time.

What I'm saying, James, is that the defender, in this case Gomes, was facing the side of the pitch in the area. As he was about to clear the ball, the attacker, from behind, put his leg in such a position that Gomes could do nothing but connect with it.

The attacker in effect ‘bought' the penalty. He didn't play the ball and wasn't close enough to actually get to the ball but he still engineered a penalty.

It's fascinating that we can have such divergent views and how we can see things so differently and be prepared to argue until the Devon cows come home that black is white and we are right!

One thing we can agree upon is that V.V.Dickhead is an arrogant knob and everyone is happy that he lost. Also, that if it is Sir Harry and Sir Gareth, it should also be Sir Jordan. ( can you imagine?😁)

Ooh, and finally… Penalty? Never.

Having said all that, I don't agree with the honours system anyway. By and large, an honour usually means you are a government penpusher, a backbench stooge MP, or you have bought it.

All the winning eleven eventually received an MBE – aka My Bloody Efforts. A few ended up with OBEs – aka Other Buggers' Efforts. The latter included Bobby Moore and Jack Charlton.

I think the only knighthoods were awarded to Bobby Charlton and Geoff Hurst long after they finished playing – and of course Alf Ramsey.

One of the surprises was that none of the squad who missed out on the final received a winner's medal on the day. That was put right about 15 years ago.

I thought they were all knighted, but I know Roger Hunt got a knighthood, though not sure if it was as a result of being in the 1966 World Cup squad or not.

Regarding England, as Craig Berube said to the Blues before winning the Stanley Cup, "We are here because we are a good fucking team and deserve to be here. Now, let's go win the fucking cup!"

Using the royal 'we' there of course.

On history. Just about every country I can think of has history,

Germany, Belgium, Polish and Croatian collaboration with the Nazis. The Soviet Union and modern-day Russia. Japan. The US and how it dealt with the native Americans. Italy under Mussolini. The French went through a phase of chopping their own people's heads off.

We could go on. I love how this website goes into different subject areas!!

History is what is. Different times. The important thing is that we learn from it. Sadly with Putin being the closest thing we've had since the Fuhrer, we often don't. He always resented the breakup of the Soviet Union.

Back on topic, I'm intrigued about the Spain v England match on Sunday. For those travelling and the tourists amongst you, if you have time, take in the Stasi museum, the home of the old East German Secret Police. Left as was and a fascinating walk around.

Tackles above waist high, kicking off mass brawls in the centre circle with the opposition, then a quick leap into the crowd to beat up some fans!

In the empire of evil, I forgot to mention Liverpool Football Club!!

Steve #381, absolutely right. If you're in the mood for rampant violence and there aren't any Rambo movies available at the moment, any important Uruguay game will satisfy completely.

Although you'll notice things didn't go completely off the rails until Ratboy checked in off the bench.

The "rampant violence" is all within the rules but I wager they'll make American Footballers seem like wimps!

I'd say Pickford and his defenders will need to be on top form – the Barcelona wonder kid touched by the hand of Messi badly wants to outshine his hated rivals starman.

The black book of Uruguayan tactics was one of the first things I learned about football from my good Colombian friend.

Bally was everywhere. What a player!

I rreally like the look of that Number 7… Ball?

Maybe a cheeky bid?