Moyes the Pisstaker

Agree with most of what was said.


I couldn't believe the team that went on Tuesday. I am a big Arteta fan, but clearly he should have on the bench after his suspension. Moyes clearly did not have the balls to drop him.

I hope we are not showing on Sky the rest of the season, it results in my text in box overloeading with people saying how boring we are. I am currently find it hard to argue, we are piss poor to watch. What do you expect playing a 4-6-0 formation against a shit team like West Ham, they are brutal.

Has Jimmy Tarbuck started writing your jokes?

One thing I've always admired about you Tony is the strength of your conviction. That's why i was so shocked with your last post. We were shit against City yet it sparked a big Moyes wankfest just because we won.

This bipolarism seems to infect most fans: A win and everything's alright, a loss and the world is about to end.

People need to start making their minds up about Moyes. It's been 9 years now, I very much doubt we'll go down but we're just not heading anywhere. The football is shit to watch.

So regardless of whether we beat Stoke or win the next derby, looking at the bigger picture, do we still want this ginger clown in charge? I think it's time to decide instead of hoping he'll suddenly change his entire philosophy.

Moyes needs to go...its simple. However, for some reason, football pundits, reporters, journalists etc all still hail him as one of the best managers in the game. Is this part of the media's vendetta against EFC??!!

Ignore Mikes sarcasm I fully agree with every word and Ive been a fan since 1948 !! Our tactics are geared to spoiling and scrambling away from home to the extent that we do not know how to take the initiative when we play at home.
If people take the blue tints off they will see a pretty poor to average bunch of journeymen battling to survive and all I can give plaudits for is effort when we come across decent opposition and then watch in embarrassment when we fail to beat teams when we are at home.
I said yesterday that the only saving grace is that our neighbours Liverpool are just as poor.
I well remember Everton and Liverpool dominating the old first division but since the premier came into existance we have declined alarmingly.
I feel really sorry for the younger fans who have never seen a REAL everton side and they touchingly try to make legends out of the bunch that play for us now.
Baines is a class act and ranks quite high in EFC left backs.
Jags and Cahill are honest tryers who I think love the club.
Im scratching my head to name any other plusses as the rest seem to be doing a job !!

Christopher, if the pundits, journo's were fans, and had to watch what we have to every week, they would soon change their tune.

I too had a bad feeling as soon as I saw Hibbert at CB.. Its not the lads fault he is being played there, but he looks an accident waiting to happen. Remember that terrible challenge at home to Spurs last season after coming back from 2-0 down (stupid penalty in added time) and those away Europa games? So he's our longest serving player with bags of experience..he doesn't look it at CB..Rodwell or Duffy would surely have been better.

Duplicate post

I personally think Moyes is a man who gets the best out of average players. This is ok until these players reach their potential, it's all downhill from then on. This is what seems to have happened to a fair few. You look at Yak, Saha, and Arteta for examples. (And even Lescott at City.)

The biggest failing then is not having the balls to try something or someone new in those positions, i.e. Beckford, Bily or Gueye, and dropping the shite. He should gamble a bit now, sell someone for decent money (if there are bids on the table), and add fresh impetus into the team, someone who may not be the hardest working footballer ever, but has that bit of ability to excite and create. It worked for Kendall with Sheedy.

He's lost the plot good and proper, I jibbed West Ham and I can barely get myself into it at Goodison. I walked out at half time against Wigan because I knew what would happen.

The problem we've got is that the only shithouse at Goodison bigger than Moyes is Kenwright! He's got a job for life. I've always admired his honesty and he seems to have a sense of fair play, hopefully he will do the right thing and fuck off.

Before anybody says he's irreplaceable here's my list.

Owen Coyle
Billy Davies
Pellegrini
Ottmar Hitzveld
Slaven Bilic
Mark Hughes
Sanchez Flores
Sven
Steve Mclaren

Not all greats of the game by any stretch but they would play a striker against a team who couldn't defend themselves in a snowball fight. For me this game was his Walter Smith-Boro moment.

Tony Marsh - there used to be people who would walk round outside Goodison before the game, with placards bearing the words "The End is Nigh, Prepare to Meet Your Maker, Be Sure the Lord Will Find You Out" etc.

As a little kid many years ago I used to shit myself when I seen one of these guys walking towards me, feeling sure the words written on the sign were meant for me, alone.

The last sentence in your piece reminds me of one of those placards, full of doom, with no hope.

Maybe you have missed your vocation, make that sign, walk round the ground, after all, Moyes is the Messiah !

Very difficult to defend a manager saying he wouldn't drop any of his midfield trio, because they were better players than his out of form strikers.

Square pegs in round holes doesn't work and what about the secret weapon?

Cummon Moysey ffs, I'd rather see us lose and have a go than try to sneak a 1-nil at a very average side where we have historically done well. Give the youngsters a chance.

The FA Cup will be very interesting, but I fear it'll be more of the same and a side will be put out to sneak a result.

Hey Tony, haven't you noticed even Bolton are playing exciting fooball... Jesus even Blackpool are better to watch than us.

Just a quick question, are we the lowest spending club in the Premier League over the last 2 years? If so, this is nothing short of criminal.

You're right in everything you say, Tony and the only positive thing i know about Scunthorpe is that it has Moyes's description embedded firmly in it's name.

Would Hollaway play a formation like that? would he shite, the man has balls and worries about what his team can do rather than worrying about the opposition, just like Redknapp, they worry about wanting to score more goals first and foremost, does playing one up front and none up front ?

Can't disagree with the tactical commentary as I was shouting those very things at my TV as the team was announced. However, you have used the word coward before and I don't think think it was appropriate then or now. This is a game of foootball at the end of the day not WW2. In hindsight, I actually think Moyes' tactic was stupid, but probably a necessary trial. The easy thing to do would have been to persist with strikers who are clearly not up to it and we would have been right to have a go about that if Yak or Saha had started. Moyes' mistake was in the summer when he should have bought and sold much more wisely than he did; many of us said so at the time, so it's not hindsight. Anyway, his attempt to change things radically at West Ham didn't work (remarkably we should have still won) and I would expect a reversion to 4-5-1 v Stoke. I would like Beckford to get a start and also a run in the team. Also why is Gueye seemingly on the bench every game but never gets on ? Waste of a substitute. I would also like to see Vaughan given another chance before being sold, but this seems even less likely than Gueye getting on the pitch or Beckford getting a start.

Steve, you sort of said what i was about to post. I was going add though, that we haven't had a new signing for 18 months. I think we were all pleased the squad was kept together, but with no new players (that actually cost money) to watch or discuss, we fans have gone a bit flat. I imagine this is also how many of the players feel as well as Moyes himself.

He plays Cahill up front on his own. If it had come off what then? Cahill jumps on a plane and fucks off for six weeks so he's back to square one. I'm sorry but I don't understand the logic in this one. It makes me think that Davey boy has come to the end of the line.

Stephen(10) The only one I'd have out of your replacements is Owen Coyle. You can keep the rest. The trouble is I don't think he would come. Since Sky came along and divied out the money we have been reduced to the level of the Stokes, Birminghams and Boltons of this world. Our gate receipts don't make much difference anymore unless you can pull in 60,000 and charge a fortune for the pleasure. Check out the quality in the Bolton side if you don't believe me. Where did that come from?

One or two on here seem to think we can't go down. I don't. I've not seen a league like this since first following Everton in 1959. At least one team will go down with 40 points. You may well need 45 points to stay up the way its going on. Everyone is capable of getting a result in this league and I'll breath a sigh of relief if we survive.

Larry 11. To quote Monty Python: "He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy"

Better article than the 'Worse than Walker' nonsense, as I was able to agree with some of your points, but you long ago became a caricature of yourself with all the childish screeching and whining.

As for the points I agree with, yes I was disappointed that Moyes didn't commit more forward last night against a poor team. We owned them in midfield and Distin is invincible at the moment, so we could easily have pressed them further up the pitch and gone for the throat.

I think losing all those goals on the counter early in the season has made Moyes wary of committing too many forward. If he can shake that fear we could still finish 5th or 6th this season as there are a number of teams piling up above us that we can reel in comfortably, even Spurs who I think will have one eye on the Champions League.

What is Phil Hammon a synonym for then if you're posting on this site?

I agree with Al and Steve... we have not signed a really exciting player and we have not created one since Rooney.

I believe West Ham I think were relegated with 42 points a few years ago. A manager I certainly admire is Mick McCarthy for at least getting his Wolves side playing decent, fast open football.

We are the worst team to watch in the league at present and Goodison has no atmosphere at all unless we are playing a derby game or against Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal.

The bread and butter home games are spiritless and dismal and we NEED DESPERATELY a new player to lift the crowd. Someone with skill and a bit of guile to unlock opposing defences. Arteta was capable in the past but nowadays he takes a back seat and hardly crosses the halfway line in open play.

Every team in the Premier League is capable of beating anyone on their day so complacency is dangerous, especially with three points for a win. I sincerely hope that DM has nice surprises for 2011 and we get the progressive team we all deserve.

Mick McCarthy???? hes a shithouse! his treatment of Roy Keane was scandalous at the World Cup. And his sides arn't that good to watch, just because they won yesterday doesn't make them great to watch!

And Stephen kenny that is a bad list of managers except Coyle.

Billy Davies is not Premiership quality

Pellegrini is at Malaga and is struggling

Hitzfeld is way too old

Bilic is Okay in fairness but would he be accepted?

Mark Hughes is Okay but again is he really better than Moyes?

Sanchez Flores is good but why would he leave Atletico?

Sven??????? surely a joke?

and again you must be joking with McLaren, hes bombing big time in Germany and his style of football is dull

Ahh, Phil, I suppose you're one of those "Know-it-all clowns" then???

You, and people like you, need to come down off your high horses now and again, and join us in the real world.

I'll tell you who IS worse than Mike Walker: Ian bloody Holloway. It's painful the way some of you are pointing to him as an example of how things should be done. Blackpool are a joke and will go straight down, just like Swindon in 94 and West Brom a few years ago. I'd rather us be bloody boring and finish top-half.

Steve #15 ? I've noticed Gueye has started to disappear from the bench recently too, haven't noticed his name the last couple of home games...

Tony; it must be difficult going with flow at the moment. Everton draw with Wigan and you go on a bender in disgust, we win at City and you go on another bender to celebrate. We draw at the Hammers and, fuck me, we are dire shit (once again).

I have been readings this web site for many a year and your comments are often awaited like the Queen's Speech.

However, I can guess that you are well aware that all is not well on the home front at EFC. I can second guess that you can see that Moyes's recent comments regarding the coming January transfer activity as being a "fuck you" to the board. Couple this with his comments today regarding Sunday's team selection: "Selecting the team is the manager's job, is it not??" as being a "fuck you" to anyone who wants to argue about team selection (guess that's us).

The general feedback I'm getting from fellow Evertonians, down the pub or at GP, is that Moyes's has just about had it with BK, the board and every fucker else concerning Everton. He picks the team, he has had it with Saha & Yak, almost a total "fuck you" to everyone ? "If BK don't like it, fucking sack me" would be his probable comment.

Things are going to be sorted soon, they have to be. For me, I will continue to support Moyes as he has brought this club so far forward in the past 7 years that I feel he is worth that support.

Hard to argue with any of this post. The line-up at West Ham did stink of one thing and that was cowardice.

Every match these days I end up wondering what another manager could achieve with this squad! A hell of a lot more, I have to admit!

The more I see of Holloway, the more I like him:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/b/blackpool/9329138.stm

I find him a breath of fresh air. Moyes, on the other hand, seems to have completely lost the plot! His comments after the West Ham game border on insanity! Or he is just lying through his teeth???

Holloway
Coyle
André Villas Boas

... would all be vast improvements. The best transfer we could hope to make in January would be a change of manager!

89 minutes on the clock and Moyes decides to bring on Beckford. As if it wasn't bad enough that he had left it sooooo late to make this change, but Alan Smith doing the Sky commentary pipes up with "Well, no-one can say that he (Moyes) hasn't tried to win the game"... I nearly fell off the sofa and dropped my beer I was so incensed!!! ? What a ridiculous comment.

If Moyes was truly trying to win the game then we would have had 3 strikers on the pitch at the end (and indeed for the preceding 20 minutes) as per some other games I can remember in the past... eg, Arsenal at home.

What the hell was he doing then making another substitution on 93 minutes bringing Bily on!!!?? Breaking up the game so we could get out of there with a draw?! West Ham hardly threatened us most of the game. They didn't have many clear-cut chances. For the most part, we defended OK under the circumstances... Hibbo at centreback etc...

Ah, what the hell ? I give up.

Steve, I think the majority on here agree with you totally. Those substitutions were an absolute disgrace. I may've given Moyes some leeway over them if he hadn't done the same things before (and no doubt he'll do the same thing in future).

Will Moyes ever learn? No, I'm afraid.

I have been worried all season about what we would do in the event of Jags or Distin getting injured. I thought it was foolhardy to let Yobo go to Italy Turkey. Especially as I don't have a lot of confidence in Heitinga. I would have liked to have seen Yobo back in the side this season. He's reliable (forget the Man U backpass!) and committed, has shown this in games, and he's capable of scoring from corners. We have lost this since Lescott left. Baines aside, we get no goals from our defenders. Yet another problem to add to the list.

But I guess there are more pressing issues. I can't want till the Stoke game to see if Moyes does anything different. Fat chance... And furthermore, how can he expect our strikers to score if he doesn't let them get on the pitch??!!!

I was at the home game when the Yak scored after a baron spell. That goal emphasised the growing sharpness and hunger he was starting to show and I felt that he was starting to get back to his best. And, lo and behold... Moyes drops him for the next game. There's one thing you don't do in football ? drop your striker when he's scoring goals. It defies all common sense. And everyone knows that Yak needs a good run in the side to really get going. Plus more time sat on the bench just compounds his weight problem!!! I say this tongue in cheek but still with a hint of truth... Same story with Beckford: scores against Chelski and then dropped for the next game. What a way to run a team.

And what is going on with Arteta this season? I actually think he grew as a player when he was put out wide right. He was encouraged to beat players and get crosses in. I can't remember the last time I saw him pull off some silky skills and magical movement, resulting in him beating a man or winning a free kick. The greatest little Spaniard has seemingly gone back to Spain.

When I think of how good he was playing before he got injured, I could actually cry when I think I might never see him play like that for Everton again. I don't wanna see him passing sideways. I wanna see him demonstrating close ball control, turning a defender inside out and being tripped just outside the area. Anyone remember those days? Defenders used to be scared of us! Not these days...

Cards on the table, folks...

a) I was always a Moyes supporter previous to this season, even though I could acknowledge the semi-regular tactical balls-up he would instigate from time to time. You felt we were taking two steps forward for every step back at least most of the time.
b) The 'bipolar' approach highlighted by Alan #3 has been a sad aspect of TW over the years and typified by Doddy and Marshy as our pantomime dames, but it gets the debate going until Ken usually brings his commonsense to the fore.
c) We are a great club with a proud heritage and great fans who deserve better. Once bitten, we are with the lads for life (no glory seekers here - Labone's famous quote remains completely true!)
d) I have lived through the glory days of the late 60's the depressive 70's (yet I saw some cracking games during Lee's tenure!), the resurgent 80's (was our ECWC squad our greatest ever - bless 'em), the lost years of the 90's (Joe's 'Dogs of War' brief spirit a fading memory), leading up to the positivity that Moyes initially brought to the 2000's. I saw my pride in our club increase and while the lows still outnumbered the highs, we still had much more to enjoy at times.
e) I have always seen Moyes as an honest and dedicated man with his heart in the right place, and while he hasn't been as starved of funds as some fans might suggest (and his transfer successes only just sightly out-balance his failures over the seasons), my expectations of money from Blue Bill's pockets have been more realistic than many, and so my expectations from Mayes have been more considered in the transfer windows.
f) I didn't like the Kirkby shambles at all, and bitterly regret our lost opportunity at the Kings Docks, but I have previously been sufficiently forgiving for it not to erase my positivity for my wonderful club.

That's me - a fairly typical fan over the last decade. Maybe more aligned to the silent majority who turn up at Goodison or make it to away games. Less forgiving than the Blue Kipper team, but less critical than the average TW poster......

So when I say that I'm now absolutely gutted and depressed by the way our team is currently being run, managed, motivated and controlled and the way our players are playing, I hope it signals a bit of a watershed for many of us fans who have tried to remain pragmatic in recent seasons.

The West Ham game has just done it for me. Even a decent (i.e. lucky) run in the second half of this season will now not take away my feeling of disappointment and disillusion at how stale we now are as a club.

I don't know what Bill is now doing for us.....I don't see any vision or spirit....I see our manager seemingly bereft of ideas, tactical nous, motivational skills, media communication savvy and not even knowing what our best team is (even when it is fit). I see once great players playing like pale shadows of their standards of previous seasons, and a dressing room that must not be as harmonious as in previous seasons. The welcome fighting spirit from the likes of Cahill, Baines and Neille must be applauded, but I sense too many cuckoos in the nest, or even deadwood that would not have been allowed to hang-around in previous seasons either.

Like many, I just don't know what to do. Our squad is better than our results have demonstrated, so surely the managerial team must take the blame for this season (I'm not privy to training sessions, but surely the lads do play together from time to time!!!). I'm not convinced a new manager will change things (but looking at what Coyle and Holloway seem to get out of lesser players gets me wondering more these days!) but if Moyes can't recapture that fire and vision of old, then surely he needs to hold his hand up now and concede that he has reached the limit of his abilities.

I don't expect our team to win much in the years to come. Football has changed over the decades and unless we have a similar revolutionary change amongst our investors and board, I'm not sure we'll ever challenge like we once did (bar the odd cup run, derby win, Sky 4 upset etc.), although I expect our record top flight residence never to be threatened by the Arsenal. However, I want my club to go out on that pitch to the Z cars theme with a bit of fighting spirit, confidence and flair to give us punters a good show - win, lose or draw. The current dour performances are unacceptable (regardless of the result) and if Moyes, Kenwright and the players do not realise why that is unacceptable for us Evertonians, then it has to be taxi-time....even if we all fear what rollercoaster ride might await. The status quo is no longer an option - and I hope more of the 'silent' majority between the bipolar extremes of Marshy and Doddy (bless em!) start expressing our concerns before it is too late!

Dave (#32) ? Great post mate, I don't agree with all of it, but I love the sentiment!

Good post again, Tony, and if we are nominating new managers, then what about one of the best young managers in Europe at the moment?

Stale Solbakken has done amazing things at Copenhagen for a while now. Completely unafraid of taking the game to some of the giants in the Champions League. It would be great to see him at the helm.

Alan Clark #3

"This bipolarism seems to infect most fans: A win and everything's alright, a loss and the world is about to end. People need to making their minds up about Moyes."

Please spare us the sweeping generalisations.

I don't agree with your sentiments and I have made up my mind about Moyes, which doesnt change from game to game.

I believe he has changed the club for the better. He has made bad tactical decisions in a number of games this season but that is not enough, in my book, to warrant his dismissal.

Now you may disagree with this and that's fine, but you have to accept that there are still people who want Moyes to retain his position and do so from their own reasoning and sense of balance. That their views dont agree with yours does not mean they are fickle or bi-polar, changing their minds when we get a good result and castigating Moyes when we don't.

"Shit-house syndrome"...I love it.

Dave #32, strong, balanced argument. I am glad that you have eloquently comfirmed my current position.

I have to add, as I haven't seen it mentioned before, that I think Moyes's talking up of players through the media is utterly vacuous. He can kiss their arses as much as he likes but, until he shows that he actually believes in them by allowing them freedom to play, then the more skillful players will never be totally committed to the cause.

I saw a great documentary about the St Nazaire Raid during WW2, which highlighted the emergence of The Commandos. Rather than being standard, disciplined, solid infantry units, they were encouraged to think for themselves and to take risks. Without them, the destruction of the dock in Northerm France would probably have never happened. I know the analogy is a bit weak, but I hope Moyes saw this programme. Probably false hope... he would have been out scouting future opposition to ensure we could scrape a draw.

Although I can sympathise with a lot of the negative comments on Moyes, overall he hasn't done a bad job. It's just a bit like the Labour Party: tired and stale, he's probably been here a bit too long. Surprised no-one has mentioned ex-Everton boy David Jones as a possible manager ? done well wherever he's been.

Jimmy Hacking, what is it exactly that you have got against Holloway and Blackpool? Are you envious that they have a manager who actually sends his teams out to WIN games?? And the fact that they have won 3 more games than us? If they are going straight down, as you say, what fucking chance have we got having won a poxy 4 games?

Alan Noon ? I totally agree, especially the comparison with the Labour Party. I remember the great feeling of victory in 1997 and the subsequent feeling of let down these last few years. It is the same with Moyes ? yes, we are no longer amongst the pre-season favourites to go down... but have we really moved forward as far as we could and should have done?

I saw an interview with 'Arry ? he stated that his team will concede goals, but they play an attacking game and, as long as they keep scoring more than they concede, well, that's ok. Can you imagine Moyes with that attitude?

Over the last couple of seasons, and I would have to check the stats, but I am pretty sure that our away record has been better than our home record. Basically I think that's down to the tactical system used by David Moyes ? he favours a 4-5-1 system that is designed to contain and counter-attack. That's okay away from home, but at home when we come up against teams who play defensively, we can struggle to break them down.

If we swopped Bily for Van der Vart, I would expect Bily's form to change and he would become 4 times the player he is at Goodison, whilst Van der Vert would be four times less effective.

Moyes hasn't got a clue how to best use the creative players that we have in the squad. If he is that good a coach, how come he plays exactly the same tactics in over 95% of the games that we play? You can read him like a book.

If that sounds harsh, well sorry about that, but that is how I feel at the moment. As an Evertonian of over 45 years I am absolutely sick and tired of how the biggest obstacles to our success have been our own managers!!!

Examples:

1) Gordon Lee selling Duncan McKenzie and replacing him with Mickey Walsh!!!

2) Billy Bingham ? sorry this is out of date order ? signing a fine striker in Bob Latchford and having JIm Pearson/George Telfer as the other strikers!!! And he persevered with Lawson and Davies when it was clear that both weren't good enough goalkeepers.

And now David Moyes and his absolutely fucking predictable 4-5-1 system.

It is little wonder that our strikers have been struggling with such poor man management by David Moyes and such predictable tactics. The other week on Match of the Day, I saw Sunderland playing 3 strikers!!! If Moyes did that, we would be in a state of shock ? both fans and players!!!