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FAN ARTICLES

It's not Moyes ? It's the players

By Andy Graham :  25/01/2011 :  Comments (61) :
This is my first Toffeeweb article and to say it won't be to everyone's liking may be an understatement.

At the start of this article I'd like to explain my comments in advance. I do NOT believe Moyes is blameless for the poor, sometimes shocking performances this season and I am a fan of this site and have the utmost respect for it's creators, editors etc for offering such a good quality site for evertonians to discuss, vent frustrations etc.

However, I, over the course of this season have become increasingly frustrated at how people have come to the conclusion that the main cause of the poor performances has been one man: David Moyes (I apologise in advance as I am as passionate about Everton as the next loyal fan and may use some rather choice language).

I will get straight to my main point which is that David Moyes, on countless times this season, has been let down in absolutely appalling fashion by, I believe most of his players and especially his star players.

Mikel Arteta has been a shadow of his former self this year. He hasn't been injured, he signed a new contract, he's been starting games in his favoured position, yet all season long virtually, he as been complete and utter shite.

Now I won't try to fathom the reason for his violent dip in form as it could be any number of reasons (high wages gone to his head, long-term injury has affected him badly etc) but the bottom line is David Moyes's most talented and creatively influential player has vanished... to be replaced by, in my eyes, a decent Championship ability player. Immediately David Moyes has made a mistake in trusting him to perform after giving him the contract when he might as well have sold him (a mistake everyone on this site would have made too) and the team is considerably less formidable.

For creativity, we now look to Fellaini. A class act on his day, as we saw against Spurs and in the further past against City at home, but he's not produced anything close to the quality we've needed since Mikel went downhill.

Leaving us with Pienaar who has been great (admittedly in my opinion) this year: however, on the left he can hardly have the creative influence needed to give our midfield the injection of quality needed to set us apart from the likes of West Ham, Stoke and Wolves.

Moving away from the midfield, Howard has cost us points this year, making vital errors and generally not performing at his best or close to it, Jagielka has been a fairly average player this year, showing glimpses of the player that had torres in his back pocket at Goodison two years previous but not enough. Indeed, out of the back five, only two have performed as well as they could: Distin and Baines.

Distin has been absolutely awesome over the last 15 or so games for us; however, earlier on in the season he was error prone and nervous and that cost us. Baines, however has been fantastic. A breath of fresh air, he has been our only consistent outlet on the wings and is rapidly convincing me and many others to believe he, not Ashley Cole, is the best left back in the country.

But I'm afraid Distin and Baines, Coleman (for effort) and Cahill (for goals) is all we've had this year as up top we have been absolute shite. Louis Saha. Class player, unbelievable talent, proven goalscorer... this year ? fucking shite. No goals in the league from February until Spurs showed us one thing. First, the goal was awesome and proved he can score a goal in an instant; second, that he has been nowhere near his best and hasn't put in the effort to even try to get there. I do, admittedly put that mostly down to Moyes and his insistence on playing him every bloody week on his own up front (but with a player that talented, you've got to give him a real chance to get to top form) and believe he got too relaxed, possibly in the knowledge of a bust up between Yak and Moyes... Well, let's not go there.

On the subject of Yak he was shite until we played Liverpool and then got dropped. One of the few really bad decisions made by Moyes this year. However, if he did fall out with Moyes, I highly doubt our manager would have been at fault.

And finally, Beckford shouldn't have had to be put straight in when he was and I'm sure that wasn't in Moyes's plan and he was always going to take a while to settle down.

What I am getting at here is Moyes is not the sole root of the problem. Not even close. Neither, in the short-run is the board or Bill Kenwright. The problem is the players. Moyes hasn't been perfect but he hasn't changed for the worse since we hit top 3 form in the second half of last year. The players have. Whether it's due to high wages or injuries is another argument entirely but the players have failed everyone this year ? the fans, the manager and the club as a whole.

David Moyes assembled a team of class players with a net spend of a few million a year while having some of his gems pinched along the way. While everyone else around us became richer, we became poorer. THAT'S Bill's and the board's fault. Yet as Spurs, Ccity etc struggled to move forward, often moving backward, we continued to progress valiantly, constantly punching above our weight (we were, let's face it) and I, as a fan of this club, am immensely proud of that and know David Moyes will always have the ability to move us forward.

Often we've needed a catalyst, a kick up the backside or Neville's tackle against United to get us going. This year, we've had countless turning points, yet the players haven't reacted. Moyes has tried and the players have failed. I wasn't angry at anyone but the players on Saturday. Moyes played the 4-4-2 that everyone had been crying out for against Spurs and this site was rammed with people all trying to get their chance to say "I told you so! Moyes out! We know better!".

Where were you on Saturday afternoon after we played 4-4-2 and drew to bottom of the league West Ham, relying on a harsh red card to get the equaliser to snatch a point, turning in the worst performance of the year in my view? We were home to bottom of the league for God's sake! Oh, that's right, everyone came on Toffeeweb to slate the fucking manager! Unbelievable!

I have said already that Moyes isn't perfect and makes mistakes, he isn't the best tactician either but if you're going to blame him for the performance on Saturday or indeed most of the other performances this year then I'm sorry but I've no time for you.

We played away at City and won with 4-5-1 if i remember rightly? We beat Spurs at home with 4-4-2 we have shit performances and good performances with both bastard formations. WHY?!?! Because the fucking twats on the big money don't pull their finger out and do the job properly apart from the odd time when they can be arsed. They're class players, they should be able to win games at home to that shite if Moyes sets out with 4-6-0 let alone 4-4-2 for fuck's sake!!

The fans should get off Moyes's back (a little) and let the players really know how shit they've been. I'm not saying don't support them ? we're Evertonians, that's what we do ? but if the manager plays 4-4-2 when you want him to and they still play shit, what does that say???

I reckon I'll get some pretty negative comments but I will not believe that Moyes is the problem. It's BS of the highest order.

Reader Comments (61)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Christopher McCullough
1 Posted 25/01/2011 at 15:25:32
Next time on Toffeeweb : 'The Fans: it's their fault we're shite'

Just kidding, but everyone is getting their share of the blame.

In my opinion, Everton have been building momentum until this year when the loans seem to have run out and called in.

Debt finance is no way to long term success. In fact, it's gross misconduct.

Jay Harris
2 Posted 25/01/2011 at 15:28:24
IMO it all comes back to the board.

We are heading for administration by all accounts and the spirit has visibly drained from Moyes and the players.

Moyes looks like he's heading for a nervous breakdown and players all react differently to what's going on but cant remove themselves from it.
Rory Slingo
3 Posted 25/01/2011 at 15:19:20
Andy, should we blame Arteta for playing the last few games if he's out of form then? He doesn't put himself in the team, Moyes does. Check out the latest quote from our manager:
------
http://www.clickliverpool.com/sport/everton-fc/1212233-everton-fc-moyes-wont-spend-pienaar-cash.html

One man who stepped up to the plate in Pienaar's absence on Saturday was Diniyar Bilyaletdinov. The Russian rifled home his first goal of the season to put Everton level against West Ham at Goodison.

Moyes heaped praise on the player, saying the winger's eye for goal-getting habit has been a real miss for the Blues this season.

He said: "What we've missed is the six or seven goals that he scored for us last season."
------

Well then, how on Earth is Bily supposed to get us those six or seven goals then by sitting on the bench?? He needs to be on the field, taking the place of one of our many under-performing first-teamers!

And what about Gueye, our secret weapon? What's he still sitting on the bench for if he's never gonna get a game against the most shite opposition?

Players always dip in and out of form, therefore it is the managers job to actually MANAGE the situation and find the best mix for the team at any given moment. Otherwise, any of us could just send out what our best XI on paper is every week and hope it all works out.

Hang on... that's exactly what Moyes has been doing!

Matt Sutton
4 Posted 25/01/2011 at 15:38:43
Couldn't agree more. More sense in this article than I've seen in a while. I don't think Moyes is perfect by any stretch - no manager in any industry is BUT he's done so much to give us back our dignity and done that consistently over a long period of time. I'm ashamed when I see our own turn on him so viciously. He deserves our respect.
John Daley
5 Posted 25/01/2011 at 15:43:25
"Where were you on Saturday afternoon after we played 4-4-2 and drew to bottom of the league West Ham, relying on a harsh red card to get the equaliser to snatch a point, turning in the worst performance of the year in my view? We were home to bottom of the league for God's sake! Oh, that's right, everyone came on Toffeeweb to slate the fucking manager! Unbelievable!"

Leaving the ground with thousands of other people complaining how shite we were yet again, how it's the same piss poor performance nearly every week, how they can't be arsed going anymore, how they're considering not renewing their season tickets etc. Under such circumstances, it's only natural that the managers role in the sorry state of affairs is going to be questioned. At the end of the day it's his team, his tactics, his chosen personnel.
Brian Waring
6 Posted 25/01/2011 at 15:50:45
Ahh, it's back to the "Let's blame everyone else, but not Moyes" type of thread.

Funny thing is, if we ever get back to any form, you will be back on here telling us the reason we have, is because of Moyes.

This is why the man is untouchable: we're shite, its not his fault, we do well, it's down to him.
Leon Perrin
7 Posted 25/01/2011 at 16:06:23
It's the manager's job to sort it, whatever the circumstances ? that's why he gets paid so much.
Martin Mason
8 Posted 25/01/2011 at 16:11:26
If you will not believe that Moyes is the problem then why raise it for discussion? I believe that you are part right only, the blame should be apportioned between several parties who have performed badly. The board who have not provided cash flow, the manager for some very bizarre tactical decisions and the players for failing to produce the goods when they get out on the pitch. I believe that it is beyond credibility that the manager should not take a very large proportion of the blame. The buck stops on his desk.
Gavin Wadeson
9 Posted 25/01/2011 at 16:21:28
At the beginning of Moyes's reign as Everton Manager, everyone used to praise him because he used to make everyone compete for their place. If a player had a bad game, he was dropped, and someone else was given a chance to stake a first-team place. On the whole, it was very effective. Players who were already in the team knew they had to be on top of their game, and the other players knew that they would get a fair chance to break into the team.

To solve our current situation, Moyes needs to stop tinkering with formations, and get back to basics. The players who finished 4th weren't as good as the players we have now, but they played to the best of their ability.

At the moment, some players are guaranteed a place, no matter how badly they play, and some players don't get to start the next game even when they get a chance, and play well.
David Bridge
10 Posted 25/01/2011 at 17:10:01
Moyes has to take the blame for everything going wrong this season afterall he took all the credit for reaching the Champions league didnt he?

A number of points to blame Moyes for -

1/ Not selling Saha in the summer when clubs offered up to 8m. (Then leaving an unfit / fragile Saha on the bench)

2/ Not selling Yak in the summer when West Ham offered 6m. (Then leaving an unfit / fat Yak on the bench all season and letting him go free to Leicester!)

3/ Giving Arteta the attention and the big contract instead of focusing on Pienaar.

4/ Giving Anichebe a shit disinterested player the new contract.

5/ Playing negative tactics consistently and blaming injuries, the weather, lineswomen etc.

And finally -

6/ Being stuck to close to Kenwright and accepting him instead of standing fare and slagging the man off for taking us down!

Moyes OUT! Andy Gray IN!
Andy Crooks
11 Posted 25/01/2011 at 17:21:58
Andy, he signed them, he coaches them , they play to his tactics and good or bad he continues to pick them. Yeah, it's not his fault.
Tony J Williams
12 Posted 25/01/2011 at 17:42:06
They don't miss sitters because of him though...
Jim Burns
13 Posted 25/01/2011 at 17:41:28
I think this article has a lot of merit and would like to make a couple of observations - the article was focussing on short term change in fortunes ( ie this season) and questions why (essentially) the same players who produced the effort and commitment in the second half of last season, go missing this season - apart from one or two notable exceptions in terms of players and fixtures ( Baines, Distin, Coleman and RS Home, City away and Spurs).

The artcle also recognises the longer term issues and acnowledges that some of the blame lies with Moyes and Kenright.

Pointing out that Moyes picks the likes of Arteta, Saha, Jags, etc. and therefore its his fault when they don't play well, raises the question who does he play in their place. I dont remember many fans bemoaning the fact that he had got both Saha and Arteta to sign up new deals - there was more or less unanimous applause.

A minor incident from Saturday, in some ways sums up the frustration and bewilderment that we all feel - including I strongly suspect, Mr. Moyes himself . From my seat in the Upper Bullens, I could see Moyes frantically waving two of our players forward to close down some fairly unthreatening midfield possession by West Ham. He was gesturing both players to cover some 10 to 15 yards of space and pressure the player in possession. Neither player reacted or moved forward a foot - despite his obvious gestures and the fact they were not far from the dugout. West Ham builton their unchallenged possession and eventually slung a cross in that caused a hasty clearance.

It doesn't take a football genius to close down players in possession - it takes attitude and effort. Not a lot to ask from players who earn what they earn, and claim to be wearing a blue shirt.

Players too often hide behind the blame barrier labelled 'Manager' or 'Team Shape'.

The likes of Reidy, Carsley etc etc never needed a manager to tell them to close players down.

Chris Halliday
14 Posted 25/01/2011 at 18:02:36
While on the players theme ? it is noticeable that most of the team got new lucratice contracts last year. I wonder if this has been a reason for the dip in form.
It is intresting to compare this year to 2004 when half the team (with less ability) were playing for contracts and we ended up in the Champions League.

Just a thought....
Eugene Ruane
15 Posted 25/01/2011 at 18:10:05
It's not Moyes ? It's the players... who are selected and bought by... oh... erm... I didn't really think that through did I.

Rolls eyes, tuts.
Jim Burns
16 Posted 25/01/2011 at 18:03:54
David @10,

I'm assuming ( hoping ) your tongue was very firmly in your cheek when you cite Andy Gray IN.

If memory serves me right, he was offered the job and declined it based on the realisation that it was far easier to earn big money and justify a reputation as a guru, by telling other managers where they were going wrong.....as opposed to being paid to get it right in the real world of football management itself....an alltogether tougher proposition.

The way things could go with his current employers - who knows? He may be mad enough to consider it - and we mad enough to want it.

Lets be careful what we wish for!
Mike Gaynes
17 Posted 25/01/2011 at 19:00:25
Well, Jim and David, as of today old Andy needs a job.
Gavin Ramejkis
18 Posted 25/01/2011 at 18:58:33
65k a week to do the job, if he can't jack it and let the next person in who can

He dropped form players and chose out of form players week in week out

He started a game against West Ham away without a striker on the field of play, the bottom of the league West Ham not fucking Barcelona

He started a game against West Ham with our only working striker partnership split in two and replaced the working half with the other working half leaving an equally fucked pairing on the pitch

He plays a central midfielder as a winger

He plays a centre half as a midfielder

He keeps a £10m player benched, but cant afford any new players, sell him and replace him or play him, what is the point he is trying to make?

He buys a player calling him a secret weapon, so fucking secret hardly anyone has ever seen him play and no one in the EPL has.

The list goes on but its being repeated now in at least two or three threads a day.
Lev Vellene
19 Posted 25/01/2011 at 18:41:48
Please excuse the last click-error...

I've been an EFC fan since -77/78, when I was a kid. We've had ups and downs in that time, and I've been eating nails and probably fingers on a few occasions after that as the last game of the season came up...

After Moyes came to the club I've been jubilant and severly depressed in turn, there's no hiding that. I've known so much better than him which players to park on the bench for a few games and which ones to play instead. I've still not won any big money betting on footy...

I love this site, and although I've never been writing here, I've followed the moans (and the occasional cries of happiness) since well before 2000.

I still groan when I see which players we're gonna play and which ones we'll leave out for too long. One day he'll do a swap 10 minutes into the second half to try a different approach...

But the fans of any club that doesn't win trophies will always feel that the current manager is not good enough. So, who would have been better? What other manager could have kept us up without any resources to spend? Could we have paid the wages of Mourinho or any other managerial wizard that the really big clubs would also have had their eyes on? After telling him he'd have to make us champions on a shoestring budget? The days of Swansea's rapid rise and fall are long gone, unfortunately.

Not living in the UK, I know that Everton is not a brand name these days. Even the RS are huge outside the UK, despite not ever having won the PL. We didn't win the lottery when the few billionaires available wanted a PL club, for better or worse.

I still hope we'll find money that won't compromise the existence of the club, and I'd love to see what Moyes could do with big money. But for now, I'll continue to keep my fingers crossed...
Lev Vellene
20 Posted 25/01/2011 at 18:41:48
Please excuse the last click-error...

I've been an EFC fan since -77/78, when I was a kid. We've had ups and downs in that time, and I've been eating nails and probably fingers on a few occasions after that as the last game of the season came up...

After Moyes came to the club I've been jubilant and severly depressed in turn, there's no hiding that. I've known so much better than him which players to park on the bench for a few games and which ones to play instead. I've still not won any big money betting on footy...

I love this site, and although I've never been writing here, I've followed the moans (and the occasional cries of happiness) since well before 2000.

I still groan when I see which players we're gonna play and which ones we'll leave out for too long. One day he'll do a swap 10 minutes into the second half to try a different approach...

But the fans of any club that doesn't win trophies will always feel that the current manager is not good enough. So, who would have been better? What other manager could have kept us up without any resources to spend? Could we have paid the wages of Mourinho or any other managerial wizard that the really big clubs would also have had their eyes on? After telling him he'd have to make us champions on a shoestring budget? The days of Swansea's rapid rise and fall are long gone, unfortunately.

Not living in the UK, I know that Everton is not a brand name these days. Even the RS are huge outside the UK, despite not ever having won the PL. We didn't win the lottery when the few billionaires available wanted a PL club, for better or worse.

I still hope we'll find money that won't compromise the existence of the club, and I'd love to see what Moyes could do with big money. But for now, I'll continue to keep my fingers crossed...
Larry Boner
21 Posted 25/01/2011 at 19:12:56
The person to blame for the current situation, well its someone who never gets mentioned, but is always there behind the scenes and is basically responsible for all the disasters that have happened over the last 15 years, you all know him and I am going to name him, its Mal Aise.

There its out there, please discuss.
Ray Said
22 Posted 25/01/2011 at 19:25:34
Moyes is happy to take the credit and the money when things go well (comparatively as 4th to me is 3 places off where we should be aiming). He picks the team, tactics, coaching and transfers so if it is going down the pan, he should carry the can.

Have you noticed in interviews its the 'Big I Am'? 'I have the same number of points as last year' What happened to team?
An average manager at a great club, he should get on his knees and thank heavens that he wasn't manager when the board had pride as he wouldn't have lasted 2 years in the job.
Roman Sidey
23 Posted 25/01/2011 at 22:16:10
I know it's been said Andy, but what the fuck are you on? If Arteta is letting Moyes down, Moyes should drop him. The fact that he doesn't means that Moyes is scared and intimidated by his big names, which means he isn't fit for £65k a week.

If Jags hasn't been playing as well as he could, replace him with the other centre half who desperately wants to play centre half - Johnny. Hang on. He did that when his hand was forced, and Johnny has looked a lot better than Jags, and at the very least will make Jags play for his spot.
4-4-2- against West Ham. Bullshite. When Moyes selects that waste of space Anichebe, he effectively puts out a side of 4-4-1. Moyes personally has cost us 4 points against the lowest team in the league.

James Hollister
24 Posted 25/01/2011 at 22:30:30
It was only a matter of time before Moyes's amateurishness caught up with him.

The man is a dour negative twat, who really doesn't care one way or the other. He is inept.

The fact is it's his job £65k a week to fix these things, if the players can't be fucked, then get them off the pitch and get others on... Gueye for example, and Bily yet another.

Who needs George Bush Jnr statements to have a good belly laugh when you can read even funnier stuff from our own inept ginger looser.

The buck stops with him, and it's now high time to get shut and fast before we do go down.
Peter Moore
25 Posted 25/01/2011 at 22:43:02
Ray 22

"Have you noticed in interviews its the 'Big I Am'? 'I have the same number of points as last year' What happened to team? An average manager at a great club, he should get on his knees and thank heavens that he wasn't manager when the board had pride as he wouldn't have lasted 2 years in the job."


No I can honestly say I never have!
James Hollister
26 Posted 25/01/2011 at 22:39:05
Ray Said - absolutely spot on mate...and the irony is, 15 / 20 years ago we wouldn't have put up with this shite..and why should we now?

TBH Moyse is now on borrowed time, and If things do not improve drastically (meaning instantly) he will be gone in a few weeks. The survival of this club is worth more than some inept man calling himself a manager.
Kiern Moran
27 Posted 25/01/2011 at 22:51:10
Brilliant article, sums up my feelings as well.
Andy McNabb
29 Posted 25/01/2011 at 23:21:55
Matt Sutton #4 - echo your comments. Excellent article, Andy. It's all too easy to put our complaining eggs in one basket. If ONLY it was as easy as blaming Moyes, then all we would have to do is sack the manager and everything would be OK.
Trevor Lynes
30 Posted 25/01/2011 at 23:18:15
Of course its the players' fault and all the manager can do is kick them into activity at half time. That goes for every team.. .Man Utd were two down against Blackpool but turned the game on its head in the 2nd half.

We do not have any alternatives to the players who are going through bad patches. Contrary to one or two comments, DM has never dropped Arteta or Cahill, even when they may be playing poorly; he has no alternative options. He can only bring on so-called impact subs for cameo appearances. Most other clubs have stronger benches and new blood coming in to shake the lethargy... we are stagnating and I really don't think that some of the players enjoy playing for EFC.

DM stated that Lescott would stay (he went), Pienaar would play until the end of his contract (he went), Neville is definitely staying (let's see??). Our offer for Kranjcar was refused but Old 'Arry got Pienaar for less!!! He and a few other managers are taking the piss out of EFC and our motto is being made a laughing stock.

We should send DM and BK on bargain hunt because that is the only type of market we can operate in. I'm ashamed and embarrassed at the way our once great club is being run and I reckon the whole board of directors are CHARLATANS and very possibly embezzlers...

Sam Hoare
31 Posted 25/01/2011 at 23:39:07
Good article.

IMO Moyes has to take part of the blame clearly but he should not carry the burden alone as a lot on this website would have you believe.

Roman Sidey
32 Posted 25/01/2011 at 23:38:00
You're right Trevor. A lot of our players would be wanting to leave soon, whether Moyes tries to put them on a new contract or not. Gosling was the first to choose to leave, and I honestly believe that the likes of Heitinga, Bily, probably even Saha would rather be playing for another side and better manager.

Bily was good enough to be starting and starring for Russia and were it not for a momentary lapse in concentration against Slovenia, they were probably going to be in the top 4 in the world. Heitinga played centre-half in the world cup final, and Saha has stated that he is a better player under different formations.

Moyes has always been narcicistic and would honestly tell the likes of Hiddink, Ferguson and even Redknapp that they are wrong where he is right. You can see it in Bily's face when he's standing on the sideline for 10 minutes waiting to come on in the 92nd ? "What the fuck did I leave my home town for this for?"

Laurie Hartley
33 Posted 26/01/2011 at 03:53:42
Larry at #21 at first I thought "is this Mal Aise any relation to Malcolm Allison" then I realised that you were alluding to the vague symptoms that are the warning signs of a serious illness - which in this particular case happens to be the commercial condition of Everton Football Club (Ltd).
In a nutshell our board are probably in the bottom three of the premier league - outmanouvered time and time again by other boards when we try to buy players. When it comes to keeping a successful team together we've lost key players at crucial times, Graveson, Rooney, Lescott, Gosling, and currently witness the destabilising tactics of Spurs against EFC - Piennar and Neville.
This has an impact on the manager; in turn the players sense this and the will to win is blunted.
We can't sack the board so the fightback has to come from the players. But if the manager (their leader) looses heart how is he going to get it out of the players?
The real question is "has David Moyes got it in him to go to war one more time"? (Patience Tony Marsh). Only he can answer this but if the answer is no - he should snatch it. He would be doing himself and the football club he obviously loves a great favour because things must change. He will have no problem getting another job and he wont be the first good manager to walk under similar circumstances - O'Neill comes to mind. A new manager of the Holloway type would the enthusiasm that is needed to rekindle the will to win in the players.
If, on the other hand, the answer is yes - he has no choice but to ring the changes in the team and play players who will follow him through the firestorm that, make no mistake about this, will be the rest of this season. He is going to have to put a few noses, including the chairman's, out of joint with team selection. He is going to have to get radical.
If he does walk we will be needing a Holloway type - someone who as Peter Reid once said "likes footballers but expects them to put a shift in".


In the long term however our hope for survival as a premier league club rests at board level and I haven't got a clue how change will come about in that area. We need new direction.
Laurie Hartley
34 Posted 26/01/2011 at 05:03:50
I meant to say - A new manager of the Holloway type with the enthusiasm that is needed to rekindle the will to win in the players will be required.
Tony Cheek
35 Posted 26/01/2011 at 06:12:37
Of course a lot of the blame goes to those who pull the shirts on. But they do what the manager tells them and play where he tells them to play. He "motivates" them and he makes the changes during the game. Of course my heart bleeds for him everytime a transfer window comes and goes. But sorry Andy, Moyes performance has been worse than the players this season. Must go !!!
Mark Burns
36 Posted 26/01/2011 at 05:38:19
Sorry Andy but I do not agree, he buys the players, he picks the team. It is his job to ensure he gets the best possible performance out of each player and its his job to find out how to get the best possible performance out of each player. He picks the players he has signed to play in the positions he thinks they play best in, he picks the formations of the team with or without strikers, he brings the subs on with 30 seconds of play left, and he carry's the can. Its his responsibility and he is to blame.
Matthew Lovekin
37 Posted 26/01/2011 at 07:26:02
Agree completely with Gavin (18):

Moyes gets paid a hell of a lot but can't do simple things:

Yakubu dropped when coming into form after the RS and Stoke

Beckford subbed at half-time against West Ham when coming into form and need a goal.

£8m for Saha turned down in the summer for an over age injury prone striker.

£6m for Yakubu turned down in the summer but then doesn't play him, except when struggling for form.

Plays no strikers against West Ham when we are struggling for goals and against the bottom club.

Leon Osman at left-wing

Doesn't play Rodwell at start of season when looks our best player, then only played him at right-wing before injury.

JH, a World Cup finalist centre-back in midfield

Refuses to give Bily more than 5mins at a time when looks only player with a bit of quality

Dubs Gueye secret weapon but never plays him

Neville in midfield

Hibbert at centre-back

Coleman made debut at left-back

only one winger purchased in 9 years

Continues to pick out of form players: Saha, Anichebe, Arteta

Played Lescott in 1-6 v Arsenal when told his head wasn't right

Ruined Beattie

Ruined Johnson

No Plan B in Cup Final

No plan at all away at Sporting Lisbon

Now I'm just getting bored of listing his mistakes. Yes, he has done a good job generally at Everton, but he has reached his managerial level and seems to have lost enthusiasm, lost the players, lost the fans. Unfortunately, it's time for him to go. Let's all move on as it's now going nowhere.
Dave Wilson
38 Posted 26/01/2011 at 09:50:57
A fair article, Andy.

Moyes should shoulder some of the blame, but these players are getting away with murder.
Phil Martin
39 Posted 26/01/2011 at 10:41:06
@Matthew 36. I totally disagree.

Moyes gets paid a hell of a lot but can't do simple things:

Yakubu dropped when coming into form after the RS and Stoke.

***Moyes wouldn't deliberately drop an in-form fully fit striker. There was clearly other issues. How do you know how hard Yakubu trains or how he conducts himself behind closed doors?

£8m for Saha turned down in the summer for an over age injury prone striker.

***It was never £8M. That figure included a meaty signing on figure for Saha. How could Moyes predict after 2 very good seasons that Saha wouldn't perform this year? Or do you advocate selling your best striker over the last two years for a few £M?

£6m for Yakubu turned down in the summer but then doesn't play him, except when struggling for form.

***It was never £6M. On his day he's an exceptional player. With a World Cup to get fit and no guarantees Moyes would see any of the potential funds from selling Yakubu. Keeping him in a paper thin squad was sensible. With the aid of a crystal ball Moyes might have seen Yakubu's total disinterest in playing for EFC.

Plays no strikers against West Ham when we are struggling for goals and against the bottom club.

*** We played our top goalscorer upfront. Yes it was still too defensive, but ultimately our toothless midfield (Arteta -culprit No.1) was out fought single handedly by Scott Parker.

Leon Osman at left-wing
***He's played across the midfield plenty of times -in winning teams.

Doesn't play Rodwell at start of season when looks our best player, then only played him at right-wing before injury.

***Rodwell has been injured.

JH, a World Cup finalist centre-back in midfield

***Possibly because Jags and Distin make a better partnership.

Refuses to give Bily more than 5mins at a time when looks only player with a bit of quality.

***Bily has quality but to me doesn't have the engine/energy/physicality to do 90 mins in the Premier League.

Dubs Gueye secret weapon but never plays him

***Big deal. So he isnt ready yet. Give him a year to settle at least.

Neville in midfield

*** where he also played for United wining every trophy about.

Hibbert at centre-back

*** I dont rate Hibbert, but when you have a defensive injury crisis -it's hard to justify dropping your most expereinced defender.

Coleman made debut at left-back

*** and? Gerrard made hid debut at right back for the shite? So what?

only one winger purchased in 9 years

***Aside from Pienaar, Bily, Mcfadden, Kilbane...

Continues to pick out of form players: Saha, Anichebe, Arteta

***who else does he pick? What embarrassment of options does he have to fall back on?

Played Lescott in 1-6 v Arsenal when told his head wasn't right

***Now you're being daft. The whole team was shocking. Or are you pinning all 6 goals on Lescott mistakes?

Ruined Beattie

***Not really. Beattie was found out. Not a top class player. Just a good target man in an average team.

Ruined Johnson

***Sold for a profit. Fuck me!

No Plan B in Cup Final

***hmm. What should he have done? Hibbert up front? A classic example of our over performing team, stretched by injuries to key players, simply beaten by the better team.

No plan at all away at Sporting Lisbon

***Agreed it was a poor result. But in case you didnt realise -we have a tiny squad. We dont have options. We can barely afford a Plan A.

Now I'm just getting bored of listing his mistakes. Yes, he has done a good job generally at Everton, but he has reached his managerial level and seems to have lost enthusiasm, lost the players, lost the fans. Unfortunately, it's time for him to go. Let's all move on as it's now going nowhere.

***like your post Matthew. Moyes will pick his next job. With money he'd take a club like Sunderland or Stoke to where we were 2-3 years ago. Only their fans might probably be a little more grateful.
Ron Haslam
40 Posted 26/01/2011 at 10:58:52
Good post and agree with every word. If it wasn't for Moyes we would be a Championship team and I believe that most Premier League clubs would jump at the chance to have Moyes managing them. I know he is not blameless but the players have let him down badly.

Who would the 'Moyes out' brigade replace him with? No quality manager would entertain coming to Everton in the state we are in. Get off his back!

Paul Olsen
41 Posted 26/01/2011 at 11:30:19
Ok #38 i'll counter

*Moyes wouldn't deliberately drop an in-form fully fit striker. There was clearly other issues. How do you know how hard Yakubu trains or how he conducts himself behind closed doors?

*** How do YOU know how Moyes thinks?


*It was never £8M. That figure included a meaty signing on figure for Saha. How could Moyes predict after 2 very good seasons that Saha wouldn't perform this year? Or do you advocate selling your best striker over the last two years for a few £M?

*** It's called being pro-active. Good managers more often know when a player is over the top. If it was 8 mill or not is irrelevant, it was a significant sum for one of our highest earners


*It was never £6M. On his day he's an exceptional player. With a World Cup to get fit and no guarantees Moyes would see any of the potential funds from selling Yakubu. Keeping him in a paper thin squad was sensible. With the aid of a crystal ball Moyes might have seen Yakubu's total disinterest in playing for EFC.

*** I saw plenty of interest in Yakubu against Liverpool and Stoke. And 6mills is not a fantasy sum for a player like Yakubu. I still believe we have just shipped our best striker out on loan because Moyes can't work with him.


* We played our top goalscorer upfront. Yes it was still too defensive, but ultimately our toothless midfield (Arteta -culprit No.1) was out fought single handedly by Scott Parker.

*** Our top goalscorer who always have been efficient in a deeper role. Yep, great thoughts from Moyes. Fix a leak by replacing it with a fully-functioning bolt(that unfortunately leaves another hole)

*He's(Osman) played across the midfield plenty of times -in winning teams.

*** Yes and we probably could use him at right back every now and then and win, but it's not a great move.

*Rodwell has been injured.

***True, but he still ain't a right winger.

*Possibly because Jags and Distin make a better partnership.

*** Maybe so, but why insist on playing him as a poor defensive mid?

*Bily has quality but to me doesn't have the engine/energy/physicality to do 90 mins in the Premier League.

*** He's capable of playing 90 every now and again, 3 min subs are just silly when everyone else is struggling.*Big deal. So he isnt ready yet. Give him a year to settle at least.

*** Fair enough, i partly agree here.

*Where he also played for United wining every trophy about.

*** Yes, back when he was in his twenties. Fuck United can even play John O'Shea in midfield and win. We can't.

*I dont rate Hibbert, but when you have a defensive injury crisis, it's hard to justify dropping your most expereinced defender.

*** Is it really?

* and? Gerrard made hid debut at right back for the shite? So what?

*** Nothing, just another piece of evidence that Moyes needs time to understand the basics

*Aside from Pienaar, Bily, Mcfadden, Kilbane...

*** Mmmhm, and Pienaar, Bily and McFadden were all natural wingers?

*who else does he pick? What embarrassment of options does he have to fall back on?

*** Well apparently his best Everton squad since he came(his own quote)

*Now you're being daft. The whole team was shocking. Or are you pinning all 6 goals on Lescott mistakes?

*** No, but on the poor morale that obviously came from the whole saga. Playing Lescott was wrong for team morale.

*Not really. Beattie was found out. Not a top class player. Just a good target man in an average team.

*** Fair enough, but bought by Moyes for a record sum

*Sold for a profit. Fuck me!

*** Fair enough, good deal!

*Hmm. What should he have done? Hibbert up front? A classic example of our over performing team, stretched by injuries to key players, simply beaten by the better team.

***Don't be fuckin stupid.

*Agreed it was a poor result. But in case you didnt realise -we have a tiny squad. We dont have options. We can barely afford a Plan A.

***The same squad have proven capable on many other occations

Now i'm getting bored with people defending Moyes for all costs, the man clearly is underperforming in his role.
Gary Hegarty
42 Posted 26/01/2011 at 12:17:58
I agree definitely with the post that we would be languishing in the Championship (or worse) if it wasn't for Moyes.

I also don't know who we could attract as manager with the offer of a transfer pot of 3 buttons and a used scratchcard.

But if all my team were underperforming my boss would be having words and looking to replace me!!!

Give the job to Neville. Passion, experience, role model, winner.
Phil Martin
43 Posted 26/01/2011 at 12:09:11
Paul,

I can summise your reply to my post as:

"How do you know what Moyes was thinking?"

-well clearly no-one does. But people in a results business dont let top performers leave. If Yakubu is so good, why has no-one else offered to take him?

"selling your best players is being proactive"

-crazy! So selling Rodwell for £15M would be "proactive"? No-one knew how this season and how individual performances would be in the summer. So the thought of selling our best striker for no where near enough money is a joke.

"We've played extremely well on other occasions. So we should expect this level regularly"

-Money buys you quality. Quality gives you strength in depth. Strength in depth allows you to be more consistently good.
We have no money. We can't afford quality. So we have to adhere to a strict game plan and try to execute it 100%. Any deviation of form or change of personnel weakens our chances of doing this.

Just for the record (said for the 100th time), Moyes isn't blameless. But neither are the players. But perhaps it's slowly dawning on them. That the financial constraints being enforced on the club are holding us back -terminally.
Put it another way. From a player perspective (Arteta aside). How hard would you work for a struggling company offering below market wages and little prospect for further improvements? It would effect your performance after a few years, yes?
Daniel Johnson
44 Posted 26/01/2011 at 12:22:42
P Neville should earn his stripes before he erans the right to manage EFC.

We're Everton ? not fucking Charlton. Let people learn on the job somewhere else first. Even Moyes had 2-3 seasons with Preston.
Andy Graham
45 Posted 26/01/2011 at 12:30:05
@15 In my defence, the title was changed from something less pro-Moyes.

@6&11 He picked those teams last year and they were on top 3 form. How's it his fault if they stop playing? Is he supposed to throw those 5 months of mostly excellent performances out the window as soon as things turn sour?

No, Moyes wants continuity in his side. Chopping and changing is bullshit. Look what Rafa Benitez eventually did at Liverpool. They had the potential to be title contenders and he only got them to that level once because the rest of the time he was dropping players all over the place.

It doesn't work and also why is it that when a player spends a few weeks out of the team eg, Bily (deservedly so imo) does he all of a sudden become a potential great player again. I think it's a possibility that he could get better but he was shite when he got games and you don't gain a few yards of pace from sitting on the bench so he'll never be a winger. He's not the solution in any way.

Phil Bellis
46 Posted 26/01/2011 at 12:36:56
Just two questions to put put some perspective on the problem:

1) Do you think Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, City or Spurs would "jump at the chance" to take Moyesey as manager?

2) Would HK 1 or Cloughie in his prime get this squad of players to perform better?

Gary Hegarty
47 Posted 26/01/2011 at 12:56:47
Avram Grant will be available in the Summer.......
Andrew Steen
48 Posted 26/01/2011 at 12:58:58
Peter Reid or Ian Holloway for me.
Brian Waring
49 Posted 26/01/2011 at 14:20:22
Phil, the answers to your questions don't need much contemplation.

1 No and 2 Yes

Phil Bellis
50 Posted 26/01/2011 at 14:38:27
Yep, Brian....anyone who was around pre-1992 (date of invention of football) would answer similarly, I think
Anthony Millington
51 Posted 26/01/2011 at 14:29:37
What a joke. Yakubu is our best goalscoring striker and can actually hold the ball up to retain possession and we've had good results when he has played so Moyes loans him out! He's spent 10 million on Bilyaletidinov who can't get in the team ahead of Osman! Is this not Moyes' fault?! If he is any good or worth anywhwere near what we paid for him he should be starting ahead of Osman outwide, or is this just a waste of money by Moyes? What about Heitinga? Player of the season last year at centre back, so Moyes plays gave him an extended run in midfield where he was awful!

Everyone knows our team is crying out for an injection of energy and pace to up the tempo of our game, and what has Moyes done to address this? Nothing! We still have Osman playing ouwide and Coleman (predominantly a right back) as our first choice right mid because 10 million pounds Bily isn't capable of playing 90 minutes! Where are the alternatives? Gueye? Why isn't he given a chance? Osman isn't cut out for left mid! We've known this for years!
Dave Wilson
52 Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:04:21
Phil

I was around then and couldn't disagree more; Moyes is better than some of the current managers at the clubs you refer to so YES he could get the job.

Also the answer to your 2nd question is an emphatic NO, they were good managers but unlike today, their opponents couldn't bring in the best players from all around the world. Moyes operates at a bigger disadvantage than they ever did.
Brian Waring
53 Posted 26/01/2011 at 17:03:12
Thats a suprise Dave.
Tony J Williams
54 Posted 26/01/2011 at 17:05:53
Ding ding, round one.....
Mark Wayman
55 Posted 26/01/2011 at 17:19:46
I don't doubt certain players have been off form, and that individual mistakes have cost us points, but at the end of the day it is the Manager that has the power to change this. He sends the players out; if they are not doing their job, he can change personnel. Unfortunately this very often comes far to late. The amount of home games I've seen this season where you would think we were playing without a midfield is unbelieveable.

We do need fresh faces in, and I have to agree with an earlier post about a malaise around the club, but I also believe that there are players sitting on the bench who could make a difference, like Gueye. Or playing players who compliment one another. I thought Beckford and Saha looked an exciting partnership against Spurs, and both scored against Scunthorpe.
Phil Bellis
56 Posted 26/01/2011 at 18:51:26
"Could", Dave, not "would"?

Were you old enough to go to matches, though?
Liu Weixian
57 Posted 27/01/2011 at 06:40:08
For creativity, we now look to Fellaini. A class act on his day, as we saw against Spurs and in the further past against City at home, but he's not produced anything close to the quality we've needed since Mikel went downhill.

Hardly fair to Fellaini. He is a defensive midfielder. His primary tasks are to protect the back four and to impose himself in midfield. It's no fault of his if Moyes pushes him high up and expect him to create chances.
Gareth Fieldstead
58 Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:21:27
I still think Moyes should bear most of the blame for the team's performances this season. He should have sold players that are not a genuine part of the first team and he must cease the blatant favouritism towards the likes of Arteta, Osman and Saha who clearly on current form do not deserve a first team place.

Sadly, I think the next two games will prove a watershed for Moyes and Kenwright; defeat in both will mean the season over and will leave us only 3 to 4 points above the relegation zone. No player with any ambition will want to come near us (that's if we are genuinely trying to bring players in), attendances will fall, and I personally think they will struggle to sell anywhere near 20 thousand season tickets next season, leaving Moyes in a worse position than he is in now. All this could have been avoided if Moyes had of shown he has a pair.

Martin Mason
59 Posted 27/01/2011 at 16:15:29
Liu@56

I agree, Fellaini is for me the best destructive defensive midfield player in the UK and would walk into any EPL team. He is also a good stand in forward and attacking midfielder and an excellent club man and role model. It's a pleasure to see him at everton and I'll miss him when he inevitably moves on probably in the summer. Even in todays credit squeezed times I'd bet on BJ25MM
KPR Williams
60 Posted 27/01/2011 at 16:20:18
A decent article mate... the usual faces are repeating the usual lines... can't believe the people who get put forward as worthy to manage our great club... Holloway???... on the basis of half an avareage season. Easily pleased, more than echoes of Mike Walker.

If this window closes without us getting anybody in, it's the clearest indication that we are in dire straights that we have ever had...
It looks to me as if we are being asset stripped...
We are fucked if we don't make signings..
and if the board can no longer take us forward then they should go...
If Bill supports Everton then he should strive to place our club in the hands of somebody who can take us forward not cling on until he takes us down...
Roman Sidey
62 Posted 28/01/2011 at 07:50:57
Was it not Moyes' fault also that James Vaughan didn't end up going to Celtic? I know if I was trying to sell a player I wouldn't go and play him knowing that putting him on the field would void any potential sale/loan. If Moyes was not aware of the law preventing players from playing for more than two clubs in a single season, then this is proof that his finger is off the pulse in a bad way.
KPR Williams
64 Posted 28/01/2011 at 14:58:37
Why would Moyes be trying to sell a player If he knows full well he won't be gettin another in return? Do you think Moyes wants to strip the club of its only assets?

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