Absolute utter fucking shite

Worst Everton performance ever in my eyes.

No fight, no guts and nowhere near any fucking glory.

Players turning up late on match day, no desire, no fight, no idea.

Just yet another, I couldnt give a shit stroll in the goodison park.

A shame on the club and everything it stands for.

Quite simply a fucking disgrace.

Daniel has just about summed it all up in his last paragraph.

Is that your real name ?

I got up at 3am this morning here in Bali to watch this heap of crap and that's the last time I do. I WAS a lifelong Evertonian and used to extol the wonders of a great team to anyone bored enough to listen. But no longer will I do so ? they will just laugh at me.

Make or break game of the season, biggest game in years and we cant even afford to put the players in a hotel the night before the game so they arrive on time. But the only reason we lost is because BK was away opening up another of his shit plays, just points to priorities.

Very fair article. Thought I?d just reply by giving my two bobs worth for each paragraph excluding the very first one.

? Moyes is a liar, and has been for the last few years. This, however, is the first time he?s told the fans what they actually want to hear, getting everyone excited ? we should have known it would amount to bullshit.

? This is one of DM?s favourites. Says a lot right there.

- Bily could be good if he was given a better run of games in his natural position. Well done for adding he ?in the position he is played? as it is the Everton curse: You?ve played this position your whole life, but now you have to play differently, and if you aren?t an instant success, we give your position to a couple of shit heaps who will be at the club ?as long as I?m here? (Moyes, http://football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6787203,00.html). Howard?s refusal to play a quick ball and get the team going forward has been pissing me off for a long time too, and I have always wondered why no one ever mentions it. Reina said last season that the goalie should be thinking attack when they have the ball in hand ? spot on.

? I think the vast majority of Evertonians were at least optimistic after the Sunderland game that we had finally shrugged off our habit of losing to teams we should be battering. That said, I don?t think there?d be one Evertonian that is surprised by the result. Your last sentence in this paragraph sums up that Moyes? tactics are outdated, and he?s dumb as dogshit.

? Will he? The board WILL NOT give him any extra support as long as he is coming out with quotes in the press that defend them. In life, if you don?t ask, you don?t get, and if you compliment someone, you can bet your left nut that they will keep doing whatever won the praise in the first place. You?re definitely right that Moyes will never win anything the way he is going at the moment.

? In hindsight, we probably should have gotten Sturridge at the start of the season.

? If losing to WBA and Stoke were bad, this is dead set horrendous/unacceptable/inexcusable/soul destroying. We have been knocked out of both cups by teams at least a league below us. I think we?d be the only EPL side to boast that record (I?m not sure though, haven?t checked, just assuming).

- I don?t think a lot of us will follow the Newcastle game. I can heare the apologists now though ? ?Support them no matter what? and all that sort. My answer: I choose not to until they can provide us with the displays we, as customers, deserve.

Craig Harrison, fuckin spot on. If your players are late because of traffic, it's both bad professionalism by the player and he should be punished, and it's also poor management. I was shut down weeks ago for saying Roy Keane would be a good replacement for Moyes. We all know what Roy did to his players who were late that one time and that he would never have to put up with it again.

Moyes out.

I think the title of your article is the under-statement of the year, Larry.

How in Hell did Beckford turn up late?! It is unthinkable that such things could happen to a Premier League club. Appalling!

So yet another defeat to a lower division side for the 'Moyesiah' to put on his CV.

Whenever anyone asks 'but who could do a better job in the circumstances?' I think we have our answer.

Were has this come from that players were late? I am not defending them or saying people are lying ? I am just interested to find out how people found out.

I'm upset by last night obviously but there's a lot of bollocks being bandied around.

Did we lose that because of safety first? Moyes put two strikers on at half-time for midfielders meaning we were 4-3-3 at times. It didn't work but it was hardly playing safe.

Biggest game for 10 years? Really?!

Worst Performance ever? I've definitely seen worse this season.

And Roy Keane could fix this? Yeah, just like he fixed the other clubs he managed.

Last night was awful and insipid and depressing. The players bombed and Moyes made bad mistakes. But we try and move on. We're 6 points off 6th placed and have to hope that we can move up the table and not down.

Sam (#13),

Are you proud that you've seen worst performances than last night? I've seen every game this season and to be honest I'm beyond giving a fuck but last night was woeful. I can no longer raise the effort to shout at any given player who just seems to be out on the pitch to collect their seriously massive pay cheque.

Bily is crap? Coleman, well what a fall from grace this boy is having ? he obviously needs a rest and blah, blah, blah about the fucking rest of them. I mean Moyes saying that Arteta is having a break from free kicks or corners and fuck me, he took almost every one last night. The Reading players must of been shitting themselves knowing that they were going to be whacked with the ball every time Arteta was hovering.

You cannot keep making excuses for that pile of shite, they were so bad last night as per the games against Bolton, Wolves, WBA, Hammers, Wigan, etc.

Fuck, I need a break from this shit.

From the start of the season, look at the games we should have got points from:

Home to Wolves finished 1-1 which was an absolute joke.

Away to Villa losing 1-0 in a game were we should've easily salvaged a point.

Fulham away 0-0 their side was full of injuries at the time and we could've picked up another 2 points here easily.

Blackpool away 2-2, I don't care if it was away from home there was no excuse for this result, another 2 points dropped.

Sunderland away, another 2-2 when Beckford had an absolutely glorious chance to lob Martin Fulop in the 93rd minute, in missing he cost us another two points.

Already after a handful of examples you can see we could quite easily have another 9 points which as things stand would have us sitting in 6th position quite comfortably and we all wouldn't be in as foul a mood as we all currently are.

If anyone disagrees with my views on these games I'd like to know why!

Bloody hell, Sam, your partner must have given you some good consolation sex last night to have the remotest optimism for the rest of the season.

Last night was another sorry tale to add. Exclude the display for a moment and let's look at the off field goings on. From the Gosling fiasco, to the Pienaar farce, to the admin accounts for the club. A rising debt despite zero net spend in the last five years and finally Beckford getting stuck in traffic...

Are we talking Sunday league here? A Premier League player, an important season defining cup tie and he's fucking late!!! The guy must still come from Leeds, I was on the motorway and the M62 was jammed, but this was around 5pm. What the fuck is doing setting off around that time?

This throws the game plan up the fucking wall, so fate throws it's hand, finally Bily will play centre behind Saha, No!! Osman who had his best game on the left for ages on Saturday, plays centre and Bily's on the left.

You can see Moyes praying at his bedside last night, "Please God, I don't know what to do with Bily, give me a sign of intervention I beg you."

God says "For fuck's sake, I convinced Sven to take Yakubu, i organised the Asain cup to get Cahill out the way and that fucking car crash last night went against all my principles, how many fucking signs do you need?"

"Where has this come from that players were late? I am not defending them or saying people are lying I am just interested to find out how people found out."

Mike, I don't know how it was originally announced but it was on the BBC live text a few minutes after the game finished that Beckford had arrived late after being stuck in traffic (I think because of an accident).

The guy doing the text for the Beeb was as gobsmacked as I was; he actually put 'WOW' on the text.

Tom, I think the queue outside the dial-a-seat booking office in Bullens Rd at 7:25pm saw him driving through the gates!!

Yeah Beckford strolled in to the Ground past the Park End at about 7:25! Should have guessed then what was to follow!

I have a season ticket which I threw in the bin on the way out of the ground yesterday. I actually won't watch any more Everton matches this season. We won't get relegated but I actually don't care what happens for the rest of the season.

Thank you, Everton you bunch of useless cunts.

I would love to know if JB had have been on time, what line-up Moyes would have gone for. He said on the BBC website "maybe", in way that suggested he just wasn't telling anything. The optimist in me wants to think he would have started with Saha and Becks together, but I just have that feeling that Moyes was going to play 4-5-1 for the match anyway.

My honest feeling about this is that if Moyes can't motivate his players for a cup match against a lower league side, then he should be doing an Arsenal or United and playing youth/reserves in the cups. We might have finally seen Gueye, and the players would have had something to play for.

Moyes out - anyone else in.

Perspective from an armchair fan: I was actually pretty confident on this one, especially a night match at home. Just moved house and no tv or internet right now, so I thought I would read about our victory over a coffee before a meeting this morning. Was looking forward to it immensely ? I normally dread the worst but at this point in the season I was thinking surely not again. Like I said, confident.

So confident that I switched on the radio waiting to hear about us facing City or Villa in the next round and the first I heard was "Moyes said he understood why the players were booed off at Goodison"... Fucking hell. Then I read about Everton being dire... I've been on here before saying people need to get some perspective after the reactions to bad results, but the perspective this season is defined by results like this. When I think back to the optimism of last summer I find the word 'disappointed' doesn't do what I feel justice.

My heart goes out to anyone who actually went to the game.

Post removed for abusing Evertonians

Sean, how can you defend ANYONE at the club after this? Seriously. Moyes backs the board, when most clubs have it the other way around. Until Moyes comes out and condemns the board too, I will not support him one iota.

Roman, DM unlike other managers does not ask for funds through the press and during interviews suggesting that, "If we had this or if we had that, then it might be different."

DM knows that there are no funds, he knows that his and the board's hands are tied, yet he still has got a team that we all, you included though had a great chance of a top 4 finish bearing in mind the results during the second half of last season. Things have not turned out that way, but you cannot take away the brilliant job DM has done during his tenure at Everton, this has been in spite of Blue Bill not because of Blue Bill.

If DM does leave, what will happen, Felli, Baines, Rodders and a few more will also go. That would release a great deal of money in transfers, but do you honestly think that these funds would be made available to the next manager? Blue Bill would eventually decided enough is enough and take his leave along with the funds (What happened to the Pienaar money?) as compensation for the effort, time and money he thinks he has spent on the club. We all no in reallity that this will not be the case.

Get behind DM encourage him to stay, and hope BB gets the message and does one before he destroys what a really good team DM has created out of the scraps he has been thrown from the board.

Nice to know we are all Knobheads, Sean. Moyes has been here too long; Ferguson and Wenger have been at clubs longer but they are at clubs finishing in the top 4 every year. Maybe Moyes has been here to long; as he cannot buy players it looks stale at the moment. How about getting rid of the coaching staff and replace but include an offensive coach as well, all the present coaches are defensive coaches.

David #25, Ferguson, and Wenger have all been at their clubs longer, have all won trophies and more importantly have spent a great deal more than DM. Give DM money and backing, get rid of BB, and success will follow. Easy isnt it!!!!

Hi, I write from Italy, I want to say few things: a) Anichede out, he can't play, worst Everton player by mile; b) we are in relegation battle and without Fellaini and Cahill we risk the Championship.

Best wishes to all Evertonians in the world.

Sean, I take your point about the good job Moyes has done for us and, considering the limitations he's faced, I don't think anyone could have done much better over the past nine years. But unfortunately that high regard for him doesn't extend into this season, where he and the team have disappointed too many times. Being unhappy with that doesn't make anyone a knobhead.

How many more defeats to lower league opposition will it take before Moyes does one? FFS, The FA Cup and League Cup are our only chances of winning silverware and nearly every year Groundhog Day occurs. Surely it can't be hard to motivate these spineless filthy rich players? Can it?

In a relegation battle, Marco? We're also in a battle for 7th spot so... so yeah.

To Nick 30, 7th spot?? You're sure?? I hope, bye see you to Winslow pub.

I want Kenwright out with a vengeance but it's not Kenwright's lack of tactical nous or failing powers of motivation that loses us games like this and others this season, that we should win at a canter.

Moyes has run out of ideas and time. I've had enough of him! I don't care if Rafa himself comes in, Moyes has lost it!

Sam #30, Point taken about Knobeads, but some of the coments on here are so wide of the mark. When we got done by WBA, a few were asking for DM's head then, to be replaced by Di Matteo, who has since done one.

Moyes I think like the rest of us is so disappointed with the way the season has gone, I do not think anyone saw this coming. It is not the time too be ordering Taxis, I think a hard long look at the board over the summer is what is needed, and cash not grief should be given to DM.

"Yeah alright, so Virgil said 'Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes', we can ALL be clever after... or erm before the event, but be honest, you name me someone who WOULDN'T have dragged the horse in!

Ok let's stick to the facts. The Greeks built a big wooden horse, hid 30 fellers inside and pretended to sail away. We pulled the horse into the city. That night the Greeks crept out of the horse, opened the gates for the rest of the Greek army, which had sailed back under cover of night (and remember, we got fuck-all all night from Clatinburxis!).

Now alright, we got our tactics wrong on the night, but is this any reason to slag Cassandra? There's simply no way anyone would have known the horse wasn't REALLY a gift to the goddess Athena. The reality is, unless Helen is prepared to give Cassandra the finance to build our own wooden..."

Extract from 'The Fall Of Troy' by Seamus Nobius-Hedus Apollogistas.

(date: er... the olden days... BC)

Bloody hell, Moyes ? why didn't you use all those names on the bench if it wasn't working?

I'm a season ticket holder and due to the age of my kids ? 6 and 8 ? and the exhorbitant cost associated with attending the match, I decided that this season I would introduce them to the fold in the home Cup matches with the hope of them catching the bug and signing them up for junior season tickets for next season.

When we went 1-0 down, an older guy next to me pinched my 6-year-old's cheek and said "Keep the faith, son." Depressingly resigned, I knew what he and I both felt as we watched that abysmal performance unfold before us.

We don't have the right to win every football match, but we have the right to both expect and demand a professional performance which on too many occasions this season has not happened.

The ethos of my post is this, yes I will continue to support Everton and my boys will be brought up blue but, until the culture at Everton changes, they can kiss my arse if they are expecting circa £1k from me next season.

On cup nights, Everton used to be fearsome, and that was always partly down to the crowd. Unfortunately, Moyes and his tactics have bored Goodison.

Last night in the first 20 minutes the slow, 2-touch, sideways, predictable passing had the crowd silent, and all that gung-ho crap after half time was ill-devised and self-defeating.

Arteta's constant pirouettes in the centre circle would embarrass the captain of an oil tanker, and simply led to the Reading midfield forming up perfectly to send him even further backwards.

Any team that can organise itself has a better than even chance against us; it's ironic that only when we play a team of talented individuals at the better clubs do we perform well. This is because they don't rely on organisation to get results.

Don't understand why Beckford is getting castigated. Everyone was singing his praises after Sunderland.

He was delayed on the Mortorway for over TWO HOURS. Yes, two hours. How can you blame him for that? Anyone blaming him is looking for an easy excuse.

We looked a bit better second half with him on (though not by much), but there is absloutely no way you can blame Beckford for last night. Blame poor tactics, no Plan B, poor games from Arteta, Osman, Saha, Bily. Artetas set pieces not beating the first man (again).

I think last night's result is a blessing in disguise. Any cup run was going to paper over the cracks of the poor season we are having. Too many players not performing or not putting a shift in. Things need freshening up, and now EVERYONE realises it ? Kenwright has to make a decision about what we do now...

Abusive post removed by moderator

Tony, what has Sean actually done to cause us to have no money, not cohesion and no direction?

People can shout their mouths off on the tinternet but it matters not a jot in real life. Sean being derogatory and supporting things doesn't have any affect on hiow the club is run/abused. The same as you responding in kind and venting your anger on here, you have no effect on our clubs finances, tactics, players etc and it's a little pompous to suggest you can't be blamed for our club being in the shit but others who don't agree with you are.

We can debate/argue as much as we want on here, it won't change the firm of Everton FC.

Tom (19), I did not see the match last night and therefore cannot comment on any individual/collective performance. However, with regard to Beckford's late arrival at the match, is it not indicative of the "con" that is being perpetrated on loyal supporters by today's footballers and clubs and masquerading under the ludicrous term of "professional"?

Who in their right mind would have thought that a "professional" approach to such an important game as last night (let alone ANY game played by supposedly "professional" people) would have involved the players "turning up" a couple of hours before the game!!! This is not a Sunday League event! AT THE VERY LEAST one would have thought that the squad would have been together by very early afternoon; levels of preparation ? physical, personal, psychological, tactical(??) ? being undertaken in appropriate ways and a collective approach to the task at hand thus being given proper focus and clarity.

I would suggest that Beckford's being stuck in a traffic jam is not a question of blaming him for it but rather the fact that he was allowed to be on the motorway at that time in the first place by the appalling approach to "professionalism" by the management, authorities and players themselves. Leaving aside the wider demise of standards in football generally, it is another example of how this once great club, beloved by us for many years (in my case for over 55 years) at present is simply "not fit for purpose" at any level you care to name.

For instance, watching the Sunderland game, I was able to see only one of the goals due to being in an "obstructed view" and on other occasions being insulted and expected to pay £30 or so for the joy of watching players such as Victor Anichebe parade his talents before us and pay him £1 million pounds a year for his "skills, dedication and application".

Sad though it may be for many of us, it would appear to me that the only course open to the supporter at present is to simply refuse to be "conned" any longer, refuse to accept what is being offered at present and simply stay away until the house is put in order ? albeit in the Championship, if that be the case.

Get rid of the board? How are you going to do that then? Have you got some money lying around?

The fact is (and has been for years) that Moyes is not good enough. Even when we finished fourth, it was on the back of completely boring football, winning games 1-0 by Lescott or Cahill scoring from corners or free kicks. Yes Arteta used to take them too!

I don't think Moyes knows how to attack; if he did, he would have Coleman at right back instead of the laboured unimaginative Neville.

I took my son to the game last night for his 9th birthday treat and he asked me when are we going again? "Not for a long time son, I don't want to come here for a long time again... until I can be sure of seeing some football!"

Toothless, clueless and useless last night... they played as though the object of the game was to fanny about across the field as much as possible to ensure the opposition don't get the ball: they didn't realise that the object of the game was to put the fucking ball in the fucking net!

And once you have done that 3 times more than the opposition, then you can fanny about as they have to chase you, and not just stand in front of you and watch till you disappear up your own arse.

I swear to God that if Phil Neville puts one more slow floated ball into the box when under no pressure, my fucking head will explode with anger. What are the coaches coaching all week? Fucking ping it in at fucking head height so someone can run in and head it in, you total fucking fuckwit brainless twat.

Also, can we put Osman into hospital and put him on a drip of Maxi-muscle for 6 months as that lad can't stand up in a breeze. And while we're at it, can someone at the club explain to Anichebe what a fucking football actually is and what you are meant to do with it.

I'm so fucking angry with the players last night... fuck me, how and why can they put so much effort in against Chelsea and be so dispirited, demotivated, lacking in guts, drive and will to win against an inferior team?

I don't know how they can look at themselves in the mirror this morning and pick up their fat weekly paypacket without being physically sick says shows how contemptible they all are; if they had any morals, they would all refuse, and make the next home game free entry ? a refund to every season ticket holder as an apology for possibly the worst night since Tranmere won 3-0 at Goodison.

I am absolutlely furious with that shower of shite.

Tony (40) you ask..

"What has Sean actually done to cause us to have no money, not cohesion and no direction?"

The question is in my opinion disingenuous, but alright, I'll give it a go.

Ok, as an Individual, absolutely nothing.

(and regarding no money, absolutely nothing).

The problem for those (like me) who think Moyes is a busted flush and responsible for our lack (on the field) of cohesion and direction, is when there are a LOADS of Seans, all apparently content with this shite.

Loads of Seans who make excuses for the person responsible for a shitty-arse performances like last night's (no disrespect to Reading).

Loads of Seans content to hold on to the man responsible for a team going nowhere..fast.

Loads of Seans who believe there is nobody out there who could do a better job.

Loads of Seans who believe nobody else could take the present group of players and come up with better tactics/formations/selections and/or motivation.

So those who want Moyes out, in my opinion, SHOULD shout and rant EVEN more and EVEN louder.

Adopt the (admittedly over-dramatic) logic of 'evil prospers when good men do nothing'.

Of course shouting and ranting about stuff often achieves nothing.

But keeping quiet DEFINITELY, 100% GUARANTEED achieves nothing.

So...ahem!

MOYES OUT!

Dude!

Careful with that axe Eugene! But I agree, and have believed so for years!

Sean, your larger response was spot on, but it is still the ONLY argument anyone who supports Moyes uses. That fact is, he's using a method that obviously doesn't work in the long term ? "the second half of last season..." FUCK RIGHT OFF WITH THAT GARBAGE. What good is a half season of decent performances?

On Beckford, Anthony Lamb ? proverbial nail has been found out by the proverbial hammer. I play 2nd division rugby in Toronto. The universal kick-off time for club rugby is 3:15pm. We get to the field between 11:30 and 12pm. Can anyone guess why? Many reasons ? team spirit, warm ups, strapping etc. Also, it's because we know that the traffic on a major road is unpredictable, and we give ourselves plenty of time to get there in case there's a problem.

If Beckford was stuck for two hours, that means he was aiming to be there at 5:30 at the earliest. As stated before, professional footballers should be there from early-mid afternoon getting ready to earn £25k+.

Moyes out.

Sean Joyce (#33) ? Brentford, Shrewsbury, Oldham, Reading, Dinamo Bucharest, Sporting Lisbon ? connection: Dire Cup Games. Answer: Moyes; he might be skint but does he have to play one up front against Reading and other crap teams?

McLeish has proved that in two years you can win a trophy, Moyes in 9 years hasn't won anything and never will, he is on £65,000 a week; O'Neil, McLaren, and others who have won things are available but no, you want to keep a 9-year failure.

Moyes has had no money? Krøldrop, Bily and countless others that have come and gone; the man gave 2-year extended contracts to Valente and Pistone, the pair of them were in intensive care, they were always bloody injured; he kept them on... name me another club that would keep a failure for 9 years?

Moyes is crap, his football is crap; travel around the country and talk to other fans and you will find out that Everton are considered boring as hell and if they are on TV, the pubs are empty.

Eugene, wonderful soapboxing but again it has done nothing at all. Everton FC don't know you said that and never will, the same with Sean's post.

Who knows he may be one of the most vocal at the ground shouting about his displeasure... and again it does nothing. 75% of the crowd booed at full time on Tuesday as I trudged dejectedly away from my seat... and guess what? Nothing will come of it. We won't have more money to buy players, our current players will not suddenly become world beaters; however, they may become more nervous because of the boos and play within themselves, so if we look at this in the full twisted context of it all, the more vocal could be damaging our club more (tongue firmly in cheek).

In summary, people who blame others because they don't scream and shout for the position our club is in at the moment are up there will the "apologists" and the IMWT gangs, in my humple opinion, as the most irritating on here and probably the most pompous.

Feck, what am I saying or typing, I am even boring myself here, sorry lads.

I am a blue through and through and, even after that diabolical show on Tuesday, I will still turn up. But some perspectives from my point of view:

Lots of pointers at Bily and Anichebe but they have been bit-part players this year ? where were the ones who have been there all season?
Leadership ? there was none either on or off the pitch.
Starting with one striker is appalling ? no excuse that two more were brought on later.
If we had more money, ask yourself the question: "Would it be any better?"
It was worse than Bolton away and, unlike one or two other posters, those two games were certainly as bad as I have seen in the last ten years
Err... Beckford ? buy a flat in Liverpool and make sure you get the game! What a plonker!

So Tony, let's get this straight, so there's no confusion.

You asked a question you presumably thought so clever, it couldn't be answered (40).

I had a go at answering it (44)

Now you may not have liked the answer and my answer may not be 'right' but I believe/d there was/is a solid enough logic to it.

I believe it's fair enough to suggest from little acorns mighty oaks grow.

And I believe when the media refer to 'a lot of dissatisfaction amongst Everton supporters', my tiny little post is a tiny little part of that dissatisfaction.

And your response?

I'm 'soapboxing', 'pompous' and 'irritating'.

Tou-fuckin-ché!

Kieran # 3, why do you ask? Any problem with my name?

Well, that got you all going, didn't it. I have never read such utter crap in all my life. Get rid of DM and all will be good, listings of the lower place teams we have lost against, Even Sir Whisky Nose has lost to lower league teams, but that's alright.

DM has IMO done a great job at Everton and I believe as I said before that it is in spite of the board not because of the board. The names listed on here as a replacement for him are laughable, McClaren, Big Sam, O'Neill to name just three. If there is a change I hope I am posting on here how wrong I was, but believe me I will be the first to say, I told you so.

DM is holding together what we have left of a team, DM goes then I think it will be the beginning of the end... Unless of course new finance and investment, and a new Chairman are brought in to give the new manager a chance... because, until BB does one, we have not a hope in hell.

David Israel (53) is he actually talking about your name?

I see how he might be, but when I first read 'is that your real name?' I genuinely thought he was referring to 'Boner', Larry's (the original poster) surname.

Now I'd like to know.

Thank you, Eugene.

Kieran may indeed have been referring to Larry Boner's name, and not to my own. I may be too sensitive in these matters, because over the years I've had to endure some comments in bad taste regarding my name, and I'm sure that Kieran didn't mean any offence, whoever he was addressing.

I think Israel as a surname is (to use the vernacular) rather 'cool'.