VIEW FROM THE BLUE
Any regular reader of these pages will know that ToffeeWeb is no stranger to controversy but I have to admit that I'm dismayed that this site is now being associated on websites of the local and national press with the leak by an "Ethan Dyer" of a string of email correspondence between Everton FC officials.
It's fair to say that in the watchdog capacity that we have often assumed, many things have been revealed on ToffeeWeb that otherwise wouldn't have gained wider exposure and with regard to episodes like Kirkby, the Kings Dock and Fortress Sports Fund, many would argue that the context provided by that shared knowledge has been positive in framing a wider analysis of the last decade.
That doesn't extend, in my opinion, to the posting, in their entirety, of emailed exchanges between members of the Goodison hierarchy, without any journalistic context, proof of their validity or justification by way of explanation for posting the whole thread, "warts and all."
Some of the more entrenched opponents of the Kenwright regime would probably justify the means vis-a-vis the end ? though I'm not sure what end is being served here ? and, personally, I can't condone it.
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1 Posted 18/11/2011 at 19:15:59
2 Posted 18/11/2011 at 19:20:47
3 Posted 18/11/2011 at 19:40:14
I really have for years wondered how organisations functioned before email. I've seen people spend their entire working day on email, achieving nothing. I've been emailed by the person next to me, and when I asked "WTF didn't you just turn and speak to me" was told he wanted an "audit trail" of his instructions to me.
In many organisations now, senior management have more than 1 email address. The private one is so the PA doesn't see. I've received emails from clients that left me wondering about their candour, before realising it was a personal email account.
As I mentioned on the other thread, in some jurisdictions emails are admissable in a court of law. For that reason, it's always safest to assume that your email is public (and if you've ever had your personal email compromised by China, that's not bad advice!)
It still doesn't resolve the issue about the use of email.
4 Posted 18/11/2011 at 19:47:44
There's 2 ways of looking at this. Do you get pissed off about the way the emails were leaked and published and not focus on their content or do you just focus on their content? The content is fairly damaging to the current administration at the club, which ever way you try and interpret them.
It's a bit like The Blue Union's interview with Kenwright. Do you get pissed off about how the transcript of the interview was obtained or do you focus on its content?
With the mess Everton are in at the moment, the content is far more important. I hope people can see what a bunch of clowns run our club and that's why I'll be on the protest march tomorrow.
5 Posted 18/11/2011 at 20:12:06
I suppose it only serves to confirm what we know... Everton Football Club is in a great big mess from top to bottom.
6 Posted 18/11/2011 at 20:20:32
7 Posted 18/11/2011 at 20:22:50
8 Posted 18/11/2011 at 21:06:17
9 Posted 18/11/2011 at 21:10:53
We all know that the club is great at PR bullshit and quite frankly Ross is a total idiot. However, I wouldn't be surprised if this email debacle is shit-stirring by the Blue Union. Just saying like.
10 Posted 18/11/2011 at 21:24:09
Dread to say it... but maybe, just maybe Ross isn't the villain, or the incompetent one.
It's Ellstone; he is rambling about letters etc, as Ross says the club are or were at the time (17 August) in financial meltdown.
Don't forget, Ellstone fucked up the development at the Park End, and then, it seems to me, lied!
Sounds like as well, Ross is in touch with an investor or potential buyer. Ross might not be the pantomine villain we thought he was.
11 Posted 18/11/2011 at 22:02:35
12 Posted 18/11/2011 at 22:19:52
You have a great website and it wouldnt takemuch for you to add a procedure where all posts have to be vetted/validated before going into the public eye. Yes it will cause more work, but you have to make sacrifices. If you like I'll do it for you!
13 Posted 18/11/2011 at 22:29:42
14 Posted 18/11/2011 at 22:55:23
15 Posted 18/11/2011 at 23:23:17
Excellent question, do we pissed off how information is obtained?
If something I deeply care about is being compromised, do I care about the means the whistle blower has obtained or published said information?
16 Posted 18/11/2011 at 23:41:00
17 Posted 19/11/2011 at 00:06:38
18 Posted 19/11/2011 at 03:21:53
Some of it illustrating how poor Club leadership is. We already knew that, though, didn't we.
An unexpected but nice change from "Moyes Out!", "4-4-2", "Parking the Bus', etc.
By-the by, someone tell me why the anti-BU. I'm not getting that.
19 Posted 19/11/2011 at 03:34:02
20 Posted 19/11/2011 at 04:14:40
This may well be the turning point for this regime as they can't keep up the smoke and mirrors forever, eventually they will be exposed.
The key point to me was the reference to the Echo, if ever anyone was in doubt about that paper, then there it is.
My personal opinion is BK is not the die in the wool blue he makes out to be, as no Evertonian I know would sit back and let the club fail like he has.
21 Posted 19/11/2011 at 05:36:48
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a false flag operation by the club to cast aspertions on BU the day before the protest.
Quote from Elstone "Not for the first time in the recent past certain individuals claiming to be Evertonians have made attempts to undermine the people of Everton Football Club by actions almost every one of us would find wholly unacceptable."
He knows how gullible the fan base are, it's just another step in the PR machine process, mythical nvestors, major signing, discredit opposition all just days before the protest.
Straight out of the Dr Goebbels playbook.
22 Posted 19/11/2011 at 06:28:02
It's all about opinions. No-one on here has any proof that the e.mails are real. I merely pointed out that it's feasible it could be spin from the Blue Union. I mean why did NSNO publish an article saying Ross had been suspended then remove it?
Let's be honest, a large number of Evertonians would be happy to see him out of the club and he was very critical of the Blue Union. The e.mails could turn out to be real but a number of different people have motives here.
Anthony #11 - in my opinion, the Blue Union are not "respectable". Publishing the meeting transcript, rolling out a clown to march, claiming there were 1,000s at the march, claiming to be the voice of the fans, rolling out Howard Kendall and the FA Cup in a blatant attempt to swell numbers and comparing us to Spurs. In my opinion, they are not respectable and they'll struggle to get more support than the few hundred they've got.
Mick ? you wont see me at the march. I'll be at the pub until kick-off, then I'm walking up with all my fellow Scouse blue mates and get behind the blues at the match.
23 Posted 19/11/2011 at 07:54:08
I'm not sure what it's got to do with anything but the BU is made up of scousers.
Your inference of foul play on the part of these scouse blues is especially laughable when compared to the endless lies and propaganda that has nurtured your misplaced loyalty. You've been had off mate, and I find your continued refusal to accept that to be distinctly unscouse.....
Our club is in shit street and our board has contributed and delivered nothing in over 10yrs..... to the point where we can no longer buy new players and have the smallest squad in the league. Be my guest and try to assert ANY blame to BU.
Get your head of the sand and be the real scouser you claim to be.....
24 Posted 19/11/2011 at 08:40:00
The sad thing about all this is that the only people who have come out in the press to speak sense and offer some criticism to the board have been Kopites like Brian Reade who has qoute again today and yet to the local press anyone appose to the board are hit with these snide digs Reade is referring too, the problem with many blues is that they are just too obsessed with kopites and all that bollocks of kopite behaviour talk.
25 Posted 19/11/2011 at 09:22:04
26 Posted 19/11/2011 at 09:33:13
Leaking e-mails outside an organisation is a sackable offence in most organisations and we've all seen the impact of these viral ones. If Ian Ross has been suspended as was suggested above, then I think this is one case where there's no smoke without fire; although it's more likely that he's carrying the can; no doubt as Minister for Truth, he was also responsible for process and procedures around this area. Given the mails content, if true, it would seem he and Elstone didn't get on and the latter's revenge has been served up cold.
In the case of the leaked mails appearing on TW, I was confused that the contributor and / or TW didn't put the mails into context, but having said that I don't think TW should be beating itself up about it.
As they said in the X-Files, " The Truth is out there"
27 Posted 19/11/2011 at 09:45:41
IM ALL FOR THE EMAIL and knowing the dirt going on in our club. I knew all this anyway without the email. Hope all these Kenwright bumboys who always use to slag me off wake up now.
I was only saying that because Lyndon had a bee in his bonnet about it. Unfortunately the truth sometimes hurts.
Ill see yu at the protest later.
In the Blue Union I Trust
28 Posted 19/11/2011 at 09:51:33
29 Posted 19/11/2011 at 09:49:49
All the evidence points to our club going down the drain..... and has done for years. Nothing whatsoever to do with BU/KEIOC/GFE or anyone else You'd like to blame for this club's serial mistakes!
30 Posted 19/11/2011 at 10:02:07
O'Keefe reckons he more or less should ignore the " few thousand" supporters who don't follow the official line.
Not only is the reporting in the Echo and Post totally imbalanced it is now time to accept that those supporters wanting change will never be given a fair hearing.
One choice guys DO NOT buy this rag piece of shit !
31 Posted 19/11/2011 at 10:59:24
You couldn't make this stuff up!!
32 Posted 19/11/2011 at 11:10:40
33 Posted 19/11/2011 at 11:33:22
34 Posted 19/11/2011 at 11:26:00
I didn't like the leaked transcript after BU's meeting with BK if it's true that the meeting was agreed beforehand to be confidential. Neither do I like this latest piece of damaging publicity for the club, wherever it originated from. I see both as having only negative effects on morale right through the organisation and support base. Counter productive and damaging to the Club in every way. That was my one and only point.
35 Posted 19/11/2011 at 11:52:46
36 Posted 19/11/2011 at 11:42:00
The point is regarding the whole state of the club. You have no proof that BU are to blame for the leaks, yet you accuse them in an instant despite this?
Meanwhile, the club's ponderous state is well documented proof that our current predicament is entirely the responsibility of those in charge... who incidentally you are "not entirely critical" of?
I'd suggest you're being extremely selective in your criticism....
What about the negative effects of running the club into the ground, missed opportunities, unviable and wasteful stadium project, repeated failures to deliver, multiple lies, disaffected Shareholders due to no AGM's........ etc!
Honestly, can anything BU do be more counter-productive and damaging than what this lot have done already?
37 Posted 19/11/2011 at 12:28:16
38 Posted 19/11/2011 at 13:18:45
It's very simple, I think the timing of the leak is suspicious; that's not an accusation merely a statement of how I see it. (If you read my post properly, you'll see I said it could be co-incidental ? I just doubt it).
My main point again, relative to the thread, in case you still haven't got it, is:? I don't believe this kind of thing ? whoever is responsible for and whatever its motivation ? is in any way productive or beneficial to the club.
If you want to stay relevant and convince me otherwise then fine, but stay on the subject or start a new one.
39 Posted 19/11/2011 at 14:28:17
2) In any form of industry or company in the real world. There is a common obvious rule that you dont put in an email anything which you wouldnt say in public or publish in a newspaper. Every email is trackable, and therefore not secret from the moment you hit 'send'. A Director of Communication should know this more than anyone.
This email along with the "leaked" transcript from Kenwright earlier -only serve as evidence to the worst suspected fears many concerned fans have had for years. Everton FC in the hands of the current leadership is in big trouble.
40 Posted 20/11/2011 at 01:22:14
This is not only a football problem, either ? the failure to see what is in front of your eyes in politics is why the country is in a mess as well.
Maybe it is your own ego that is stopping you accepting the evidence?
I still hear the line, "BK saved us from Johnson", really? Johnson was 10 times better than the current regime will ever be.
We bought top players; we also won something... maybe Johnson is why your ego won't allow you to hold up your hands and admit you made a mistake about him, and an even bigger one accepting BK.
So, for me, what is your stance? What is good for your ego or Everton?
If you love Everton ? ban the Echo.
41 Posted 20/11/2011 at 15:12:10
"Although Ross has not denied that the emails are authentic, he has privately claimed that some of them were altered before reaching cyberspace. Everton, who have launched an investigation, have refused to comment".
Not very private if it's being reported in the Guardian.
Seems Mr pig-ignorant isn't averse to a leak when it suits him.
The 'private' claim certainly contains enough murkying of the water for the gullible to be giving it "See! It was all made up by the BU lad!".
By the way (on the subject of leaks) in my opinion, Private Eye Magazine's 'Street Of Shame' is the only place one can actually find out what REALLY goes on with (and in) British newspapers.
Most of their information, I have no doubt, comes from leaked emails memos etc.
Entirely justified I believe, as the papers they're leaked from are not only bullshitting, but often claim some sort of moral superiority while doing so (see every edition of The Mail....ever!).
Basically, the leaks get us MUCH closer to the truth (nb: which we are ALL entitled to).
Seems to me however (especially reading some of the anti-BU bollocks) that many are not too bothered about getting at the truth, preferring their own mixed up version of it.
Do I know this?
Well no, but I know the lie-filled NOTW sold in it's millions and Private Eye sells in the thousands.
42 Posted 20/11/2011 at 15:51:50
43 Posted 20/11/2011 at 16:06:00
I think he said "A fantastically run club with a very honest chairman".
I've no evidence but...it suits me to think that.
44 Posted 20/11/2011 at 18:50:36
45 Posted 22/11/2011 at 06:20:49
I saw them reported on NSNO but with a link back to Toffeeweb so was wondering how widespread they actually are?
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