Injustice Adds Insult to Injury

Take away Jelavic and Gibson, and our stock plummets. Osman was fairly frustrating, as was Victor. Neville was probably the worst I have seen him play, and has to be dropped. Fellaini has to be moved back to midfield, with last night exposing our short comings when a couple of bodies are out. Missed chance — let's not repeat it.

We started the 2nd half with the wrong attitude: as if the game was already won-that's something to improve

Also thought Felli looked as if he'd been reading about his own hype. Didn't contribute much

However, when all is said and done, we should have won that match but for shite refereeing. It's the mark of a good team to win when not playing well. However the officials denied us that.

We need a new centre back and Hettinga is not the answer

Neville for me should not be in the midfield, Osman, though he had a poor game is a higher quality of player, plus we don't exactly have a plethora of options in the middle of the park.

The plus side is that Bainaar looked back to their best, Mirallas looks to be quality and another night with better officiating and less profligacy we might have scored 5 or 6 goals so at least we are creating chances which has been our achilles heel in the last few seasons.

On the downside, Howard looked dodgy, Jags might have to be hooked out for Johnny, Neville is not a permanent option in midfield and Jelavic does not have any replacements. Also our 'good' start has now become an average one as we sit familiarly in seventh.

3 points in wales please. Hopefully Jelavic is back.

On the plus side Baines and Pienaar were fantastic, if Jelly had stayed on I'm pretty sure he wouldve got on the scoresheet, as limited as Hibbo is one thing he can do is defend, Fellaini had some great moments and Mirallas looks like a class act - once he gets half a dozen games under his belt I reckon we'll have a great player on our hands.

On the downside - its a real shame for Victor, and I know its not right and he "scored" twice but the moment he came on for jelavic I just thought "thats that then". If I were him I would look elsewhere becasue he is just does not offer enough to the team, I always feel like we're playing with 10 men when he's on.

Distin / Howard / Jagielka - Moyes needs to sort this "triangle" out, Howard's past it in my book and I'd like to see Johnny back.

As for Phil Neville - I think he genuinely offers great leadership and experience but otherwise he's sub standard if we genuinely hope for top 4.

Bottom line is we've got a great first 10 now, we just havent got the squad. First place to reinforce is goalkeeper, as much as I hate to say it, then we'd have a great first 11.

I think Moyes was about to bring Heitinga on but the ball never went out of play between then and the equaliser. Anyway I thought he would have been better moving Fellaini back and his height would have given the back 4 some protection.

I thought Neville was poor but he was excellent there against Man Utd the other week so I don't think its a case that he should be discarded based on last night. However, I think Moyes needs to react quicker and better to what sometimes is obvious. Neville was an accident waiting to happen last night and irrespective of his display should have been subbed after his final warning foul. Second half we lost our way for a bit and started knocking the ball long too often which played into their hands at the back. Fellaini should have been dropped back into Neville's position, Naysmith brought on and we would then have had 4/5 players doing the intricate pass and moves that we look so good at and would probably have finished them off.

At Swansea that is the line up I'd prefer to see as that would suit the type of game that is going to be.

Mainly though I appreciate a cracking game and reserve my wrath for the officials.

Big Vic, got 1, could and should've been 2, but he just doesn't come across as, well I'm just not sure what he comes across as, but most of us don't like it.

If he had a bit of Mongrel in him and half the Straq's attitude he would be a world beater. ( see Moyeses get an idea and stick with it below )

Some have said Moyes is a one trick pony and I have to say once he gets an idea in his head....it takes a lot of shifting ( Saha and Cahill, 451, Neville in MF, KITAPI, USA pre seasons, the whole sq peg round hole thing )...Now we have the Fellani Factor.

Davy; be a bit Flexible with the Fellani Factor, don't Flog to death FFS.

So to mis quote Chris Tarrant;

TIEWAS

This is Everton watch and smile ( ruefully )

We simply are not ruthless enough attacking or defending.

I'm with you on Neville though, How many times ( years ) have we been saying, never, never, never, etc etc ever do we want to see him in MF.

Hopefully, Barkley does well in his loan spell and Moyes thinks he is good enough to bring back to Everton.

Why is he the scapegoat for so many people. Nobody's saying he's got the technique of Jelavic but if Jelly had scored the two goals Vic did we'd all be raving about how he's a natural finisher.

As for Nick Armitage saying United would never have drawn that game, are you forgetting last season when they were up by two goals with ten minutes left and we drew with them 4-4. Some people are just desperate to have a go. We were screwed by two bad decisions, Osman getting caught in possession and our centre halves being unable to deal with route one football, NOT Big Vic scoring two goals and working his socks off.

People's abuse of Anichebe is a disgrace.

Once more we were frustrated with Moyes substitutions. Why can't he figure it out earlier? Like many on here, I would have preferred to see Fellaini drop back, and Naismith come on for Neville, Mirallas move inside and PLAY THE BALL ON THE FLOOR! Christ, it's not rocket science! We were all over them in the first half using that tactic. They are a big side and the movement early on had them chasing shadows. Still, if the officials had been merely incompetent instead of effin incompetent, we would have won and this would have been a discussion about a great win and a great game.

I think Victor must read this sites comments judging by his reaction to his goal (that stood)

Great tribute before the game, worthy of the plaudits it has recieved in the media. "He aint heavy" was an inspired choice.

Please Moyes no more Nev in midfield ever again.... ever!

Truth is, Victor has a lot of decent attributes and sometimes shows the guile and determination we hope and expect from him. But, it's all very fleeting. However, there were a lot of signs of improvement from him last night and I genuinely hope he can prove me and a lot of other people wrong.

Kase Chow (439), last years player of the year is not the answer? So I guess only Gerard Pique or Sergio Ramos will do for you yeah?

Weakened from the start with the loss of Gibson.

First half we played a lot of great football, on the ground. Baines, Peanuts, Mirallas, Jelly, and at time Osman when we were going forward. Our first goal was a result of such play.
Whether we outplayed them first half because they set up wrong and let us play, or we were just so much better... I'm undecided. But once we lost Jelly, I think we dug our own grave by bringing on Anichebe. I think we should have put Naismith on instead, to continue playing football, on the ground, to get it up to and into their box, not the bull in a china shop that Anichebe is.

So second half, we lost it in the middle. A combination of factors. They came out with Ba, Neville so weak, Osman poor going back, as opposed to going forward, our defence under pressure, with Jags generally exposed for pace, and Distin as ever vulnerable to the one over the top. So all those factors combined means we were then under the cosh, and then with no controlled outlet through "on-the floor" football as in the first half but with the ball being lobbed high up to Anichebe, who gives us little outside of the box. (It got worse later when Anichebe was pushed out on the right).

At which point, relatively early in second half, I think DM should have grabbed the bull Anichebe by the horns and taken him off, along with Pip. Pulled Fella back to replace Pip, put on Naismith and Coleman (possibly?) to continue the "on the ground" stuff, working up to and into their box. Or Johnny replacing Pip and Naismith replacing Anichebe.

I think my point is that Anichebe was only useful if it got into the box. But we were losing it in midfield and let them in. That's what needed to be stopped and there was away of doing that, as above,which was at the same time stronger defensively and would have continued the threat going forward up to and into their box.

By the way, I thought that Naismith was more anonymous than Anichebe when he came on.

They faded in the second as N'castle grew stronger but they weren't the only ones to be fair.

Ossie was at fault for their first equaliser but Howard was at fault for both goals,imo.

Everytime I see their first goal it seems to move slower and slower yet Howard still can't get to it. And the second was a pathetic effort. I thought he might have learned after Doyle made a twat of him a while back.

Having said that Tim did make a couple of very good saves so fair play to him for that.

We need Gibbo back soon as.......and the linesman wants fucking!!!

Pleased with that showing overall, but there was a time at 1-1 we stopped showing for the ball out of defence and the old "Hooferoo" came back into our game. It's like the players run out of ideas on how to move the ball forward. Nothing to do with the manager or tactics that one - just the least intelligent way to play.

That was all I wanted to see anyway, attacking intent from the start – but next time I would put Naismith in to replace Neville or Osman. I don't look for their faults every game, they just seemed weak in the tackle, and it looked to me they gave the ball away more than most. (I would like to see the stats on that though.) Howard needs to look at himself for their two goals.

I cannot believe this current team would go a whole game at home without mustering a shot on target – something we witnessed last season, so improvements all round!!

No player should be getting a round of applause from the crowd for chasing down a player but Anichebe did and its because we're so used to seeing him being a lazy bastard.

He is a big lad but still didn't win a single aerial battle all night.

His movement is terrible, there was a break down the left and there was only Anichebe and 2 centre halves in the box. So what does he do? Runs over to the centre half to get himself marked.

The worst and most typical example of Anichebe's lack of ability was when the ball was played over the top and he beat the off side trap. He had a 15 yard head start on the nearest player and all he had to do was bring the ball down and have a clear run on goal. Instead his first touch was poor, poor second touch, poor third touch. By the time he finally managed to get control of the ball the entire Newcastle defence had got back and even had enough time to organise themselves.

Moyes made a mistake not getting jags off before the game, and he should have given Heitinga the chance instead of Jags.

Everybody can now see how poor our defence really is, last year we had Heitinga. who made it look much better.

I think it is time to replace both Distin and Jags, to me they are to error prone,.

The first half was as good a display I've seen from an Everton side in decades. Some lovely football and a real flow to our play. Unfortunately, their equaliser meant that Moyes resorted to more hoofball. I said this over the summer and got a load of people correcting me but when Everton's back is against the wall, we resort to long ball. It was the same in the semi final last year. Why can Moyes not see that every time we knocked it around, we looked threatening or created something? I don't believe that the players just resort to knocking it. I think Moyes encourages it.

Neville isn't a central midfielder and l lost count of the number of times he surrendered possession. The warning sign was there when he headed it to Cisse who shot narrowly wide. He was also pushing his luck with persistent fouling, having already been booked early in the game.

Reflecting on the positives, Mirallas looked threatening and I thought he was unlucky to be taken off. Baines and Pienaar linked up well and I thought Hibbert had a solid game. Maybe it's a good sign that we feel disappointed with a draw against a team who did so well last season.

The negatives are the injury to Jela. I think we feared losing him over the close season and wondered where that would leave us. Our defence looked shaky once they scored and Howard should have done better on both goals despite making a great save late on and the aforementioned Neville needs replacing.

Would like to add that I thought the tribute to the 96 was well judged and I was proud to be blue with the way the club and fans conducted themselves.

"Saying that Man United would never have blown that game".

United were leading 4-2 against us last season, we then went and scored twice in the last ten minutes. It happens to all teams, even the best - it's just that the top teams take the positives and move on, not us, we will now disect last nights match blaming each and every player, the manager and the ref till any positives have long gone.

For me we have a good first eleven, however when injuries hit we are extremely limited - though playing Neville as the anchor man seems to always stink.

Finally, the officials do what they do in most matches - fuck the game up, you just have to hope that these decisions even out over the season.

Our first 11 is good. Our second 11 is very average. This is the difference between us and Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and possibly even RS.

I saw an interesting clip straight after the Neville's tackle on Gutierrez that should of seen him off, Pienaar was shouting at him to calm down. Neville is always hyped due to his leadership presence on the pitch and somewhat explains his inclusion in the team. But on last nights evidence he didn't really show any reason to keep him there.
But as others have mentioned, what other options do we really have due to a small squad and injuries. With these rumours of Hargrieves/Reo-Coker/Hitzleberger I think Moyes needs to get one of them just to give us another option in Midfield especially with Gibson gone for a while.

Having said that, what the hell was Tim Howard doing for their 2nd goal? Since when is jumping up in the air in the goalkeeping manual?

I am surprised people are being so hard on Anichebe, he scored two perfectly good goals but only the 2nd stood. The one that stood was a beauty too, lovely turn and shot off his weaker left. The lad has something about him if he applies himself. Give him stick when he's lazy but last night he wasn't lazy.

A joke surely?

Everton - Man Utd 3-3 2011, two Everton goals in injury time
Manchester United - Everton 4-4, well behind a looked beat. Cost United the title as well.

The midfield pairing of Neville and Osman was really poor last night, Neville only seemed to find a blue shirt in the crowd and his decisions to pass back to Distin a few times utterly shocking with Distin screaming to him not too. Howard didn't command his box last night and his gift to Ba for the second was piss poor, surely any keeper knows if they go for the ball the ref would defend them and give them the foul (even given that Geordie ginger bastard last night gifting the skunks every decision)

And Steven, the Cahill sale is completely irrelevant to our current scenario. He played fundamentally as an attacking midfielder, and we have Fellaini, Osman and Naismith who can play in an AMC position, and Pienarr at a push.

Phil Neville at his best and most committed, i,e against Man U, can still do a job. He can't do a job week after week and ,admirable as he is, no team with Phil Neville in midfield can qualify for the Champions league. I like Leon Osman but he is a luxury player who should never feature in the same midfield as Phil Neville.

Completely agree, by the way. But dear Lord... "his best game in a long time" and "he's still shit"!

And then this from Mark (463): Anichibe 'terrorized' the barcodes defence.

Split opinions, your honour. 'Terrorized'? He was a lumbering oafish paceless awkward-gawp looking piece of shite. Sheer shite. Did you not see him with his 2-second start on the left back who picked him off with ease? Ship the worst so-called forward I've seen in donkey's years at The Old Lady to the mutants at Stoke where he belongs; he is a fucking classic Pullis player, match made in mutant Heaven.

Howard - Hibbert - Osman - Neville - Anishitbe off the bench. The Moyes Five. No questions asked in his mind: the five, the famous five. Each one a liability: sorry a per cent hit rate for a goalie is, erm, well, crumbs, not good enough.

Captain Pish, my heart sinks every time, every time, and you are NOT the great leader folks on here seem to think merits your place in the 11. NO, absolutely no way at all, the great sideways/backways midfield crab really show leadership in the 2nd half right, a hand-clap here, a hand-clap there.

Hibbo is honest and decent and not good enough. Osman is a lightweight piece of tissue, blown across the pitch, who needs too be directed not too far away to say Wigan or Bolton.

It's so blind bleedingly obvious innit? Everton win games, sometimes we might go on a winless streak but we we win games, we bounce back, and we can go on a run. Nice. Moyes always picks Howard, Neville, Osman, Hibbo (but not always) and Anashitbe on the bench waiting to impact and terrorize defences. They are always picked so fucking obviously they will be in winning teams right, and this then lets a few folk come on here and say, cough, long sip of this neat sauvignon blanc: we win when they play, how can they be bad at all when we just beat X, murdered, Y, and played Z off the park.

We are five, FIVE, players away from a top-drawer starting 11. Happily, there are people on the bench who are better than the frightful five. But so long at the frightful five – not one of whom is anywhere near up to par for a Chumps League bound team – are in the first 11, there is no way in the world that we can compete on anywhere near a level playing field with Shitty, Arse and Co.

Championship players at best; too old for one, too unpredictable. New shit-hot goalie in the next window, Moysey mate; give this erratic star-leaping 50% yank something to fucking play for.

Frightful Five Out. Frightful Five Out. Frightful Five Out.

I appreciate we had 2 goals disallowed, but let's not kid ourselves: we were also hanging on at times against a Newcastle side that had its own injury problems. The goals we gave away were really poor play, and I am sorry but a side that contains Osman and Neville in centre midfield, and Vic up front is going to squander points.

We missed Jelavic's movement, whilst the control in midfield withered considerably in the second half, and the back two and Howard looked flustered. I don't have an issue in having Neville or Osman in centre midfield, as long as he is next to Gibson or Fellaini, but we can't have them both together in centre midfield. You wouldn't see it at any top 5 side, so let's be realstic and say you can't have it in ours and achieve.

Yes, Vic did have some chances, but he is clearly not Premier League quality. Assuming Jelavic is injured, I would far rather stick Naismith and Mirallas up front, and drop Fellaini into the midfield, although who the arse would play on the right exposes the depth of the squad. I know this post is going to be high on the moan front, but we would be far better cashing in on Vic with some of the Rodwell money and getting someone else in, anyone.

Obviously,he's not in the same league as Jelly when it comes to controlling the ball or passing. He's an old fashioned centre forward I suppose. May I add i've never been a fan of his,especially his rolling round on the deck antics.

Bainaar were a credit to the shirt,as was Mirallas. Did anyone notice him trying to close their defence down,flailing his arms in fustration in the second half? That was great to see.

We deserved to win and played some superb football,especially in the 1st half.

And so someone says blah blah back. Before you can say Anashitbe there's furious tapping of keys in the Freshy and in proper scouse-land saying blah blah blah back, after that great show do you still want Leon to go to Wigan mobber (yes please, yes please).

Things are changing. But the frightful five must be taken to the elephants / stokie / pieeaters / Salford Quays graveyard – okay, might go softer on Timothy Roosevelt Howard, but for the love of Sheeds, please give him some serious competition for his – as of now, set in stone, holy scripture and all that – place in the starting 11.

Looks like the Lads will have to find the balance between this all out attacking and getting back to defensive shape. Moyes too.

But, man, we look really, really good. Very exciting.

As a bonus, my first 4-2 draw. Who knew?

He had a poor National Team tournament and was kicked off the team. Now, he's not started games for us. At some point, the manager's not playing him for a reason.

It's like calling you Chad Schadenfreud, ha, ha!