Indomitable Blues pegged back by Probert gift

What I am expecting though is bags of effort from the midfield with Gibbo fit and Ossie showing for more than 60 mins.

Jelli needs to find his shooting boots.

All-in-all, looking forward to a good game, even if a little more apprehensive than usual about the result.

Given our recent failure to put teams away, we know how Man City fans feel tonight.

Pleased with a point, though; over 90 mins I thought it was quite an even game. Naismith may need a lot more games before he knows what the PL is all about, I think we should give him bit more time to adjust. Jagielka was gash the first season he played for us.

I've never known the so called big 4 to be in such disarray, I wonder if the Taxman is calling foul on some of these high earners and the methods by which they are paid.

BBC saying that it was a solid hard-to-beat Everton who defended well, what happened to the first 30-35 minutes when we had full control?

If anyone deserved to win that, they did. That's why it's a very good result.

Roll on next game! Cant wait!

The league is very close, any team from Tottenham in 3rd down to (hate to admit it) Liverpool in 11th are capable of climbing into the top 4 if they put a really solid run together. I suspect the teams currently in posession, Spurs and Chelsea, will be the ones to beat.

One thing is sure and that is that we will need to start winning if we are to join that group. Home to Spurs and away to Stoke are tough games but I think 4 points is minimum if we are to keep pace with champions league spots.

For me, the first half was pretty even.. they stepped it up in the second and dominated.

To say we controlled more of the second half than them is not in line with what I saw.

We did play quite well in the first half... although struggling to make that final ball tell. But the argument can very easily be made that, from open play over the full 90, we did a lot better than the Champions, and would have fully merited the win.

Here's me thinking that it was all about how many times you put the ball in the back of the net as opposed to your opponents. Tell you what along with all the weird people lets put that into the same category as "any bodily contact is a foul" er people, I mean lets deconstruct the art of football altogether and start again.

Hey we'll even get Wayne Sleep a contract and maybe dig up to play up front Quenten Crisp, (good bloke by the way John Hurt was amazing in the teleplay) but you see what i'm saying.

All I'm saying my friend is that football is bent. It's the proverbial "Nine bob note" For you youngsters, ask yer Dad!! It's the reason that you're NOT going to see goal line technology. It's the reason why we're not allowed to beat Arsenal, by way of a penalty but we're not allowed to beat Man City, because of a pen against us.

Just have a look at all the different laws in the game that is to a Ref or linoes discretion. Start giving them £800 a week for 90 mins work and purlees they will do what ever the boss tells them. WOULDN'T YOU cos I would. I mean lets face it it's money for eff all; really.

And to everyone who may read this a question; Do you think that sport, be it football or the Olympic Games is Sport ...... or politics.

Once you've worked out that politics is just another word for profit i.e. money,dosh sponds (Hi Paul) then you'll realise how bent the game of futty really is.

It's not a problem with me, it's just an evaluation, you know like there really is a bloke called,

SANTA

They had more possession, shots and shots on target.

The argument can certainly be made, but I don't consider it to stack up very well.

Man City fans will be hurting more than us over this result.

We didnt dominate the first half, we played better than them, but not dominate. City dominated the second half, look at the first 25 mins, we didnt even get into our half. We had a 15 minute spell where we played well, but all we did was defend,

And that's why I'm really happy with the performance. We defended brilliantly. Other than that and Arsenal, we havent been doing that in the last couple of months.

We're looking good for Spurs as well. Bale injured for them, hopefully Mirallas back for us. COYB!

I thought you usually dismissed arguments like They had more possession, shots and shots on target as meaningless stats???

Everton dominated the first 30 minutes, scored a worthy goal from open play, and did enough to prevent City from scoring by resolute defending for the rest of the game. On that basis, I think they deserved to win.

You can't really ask for much more at the home of the unbeaten Champions — other than some reasonable refereeing.

I think we have a real chance of finishing 3rd now Chelsea have imploded, with us out of the Rumbelows Cup. My only worry is Spurs who seem to have clicked but, apart from them, we are far better than the rest of the teams challenging.

We may have been unlucky in some of the games but we're also getting lucky that the rest of the points are being spread around with the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool not doing great either but they will presumably come good at some point. Got another tough game against spuds coming up, then stoke away before the crazy xmas period.

Really need to get Miralas back as Naismith is a squad player/bench warmer at best.

We were better but it was even. Look at the first 30 minutes of the second half. We were dominated then/

It's used a bit too lightly

I simply don't agree with your analysis, including the opinion that we dominated the first half.

However, a well won point against a very good side.

We may have been unlucky in some of the games but we're also getting lucky that the rest of the points are being spread around with the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool not doing great either but they will presumably come good at some point. We've got another tough game against Spurs coming up, then Stoke away before the crazy Xmas period.

We really need to get Mirallas back as Naismith is a squad player/bench warmer at best.

To chip in to the Michael/Ciarán, you've got to agree with Michael; sometimes you've got to defend away from home especially against the top two, and to quote the old cliche it evens itself out over the season AND as we have been on top in so many games and haven't come away with the points, we're due one.

And Howard only had 1 shot to save, from Maicon in the second half; Hart definitely looked the busier of the goalies so it shows how statistics can be wrong.

With respect to the result debate, I think a draw was fair. We tested Hart more than they tested Howard, but City had more of the ball. I also think we looked a lot more solid... thanks to Hibbert and Gibson, imo.

IF we beat Spurs next week (set to be without Bale it seems), we will have got through 3 hard matches leading the realistic top four contenders. It is a big 'if' of course, but I don't see any reason why we can't.

I was under the impression they did score..

The problem today was getting the ball as City are really good at keeping possession. Fellaini continues to impress, but still doesn't wear his heart on his sleeve like Jags and Baines, but what would we do without him?

I never thought I would write this on ToffeeWeb, but I miss Anichebe, where the hell is he? We need some guts coming off the bench. He is our best sub, believe it or not!

And can someone please tell me why Barkley was taken back off loan? Why not give the lad 20 mins now and then? I wonder sometimes how many games Sterling would get if he was a blue?

It's gonna be a cracker against Spurs..... COYB!

Eric, I think you mean the stats were correct (unless you know otherwise) but they are not the whole argument. And you say that Hart was the busier of the two goalies — can you quantify that? if you can, that's a "stat"!

Still, does anyone remember the horrible day here last season? Progress without doubt.

A thoroughly enjoyable game, it was great to see us take a hold on the game and play with such confidence in the first half. City offered very little in the way of an attacking threat. The penalty, which now appears as a non-event, changed the game as it gave them something their general play didn't merit.

I can't wait for the Spurs game.

People may not agree, I've just got back from the game, I pays me money and this is my opinion - he is the worst player to wear our shirt for many a year and the sooner Mirallas is back the better. If not Oviedo is a much better option or Barkley or anyone from the stand - he's fucking shite and he's not good enough to play for Everton. Rant over.

What competition was it again?
And at what stage?
Where was it?
Against whom?

Lest we should forget...

As Moyes says this was a ' good ' draw, our 7th. If just half of the other 6 had gone our way for one reason or another we are well placed in 3rd

That and that reason alone is why there is so much frustration

I am not too hard on Naismith he is in the Everton kiss of death position out wide on the right. It took Ossie years to get out from under and he looks a much better player for it.

Maybe Cahill, Odjidja-Ofoe and Donovan on loan?!

Only I can't remember him being discussed on the match thread, maybe I'm mistaken.

I hate to say it but if we can get £32-£35m for the fella, we would do well filling in this embarrassingly thin team!

He is nothing short of a monster and has such a unique skill set that some big club will park the dump truck at Goodison for him..

He is world class and God bless him but if we reinvest £20 of it at least, we could pilfer some real talent at leagues that are going bankrupt (Spain, Greece, France) and we might just snatch 4th. There is NO ONE to fear above us. A little more depth at key positions and we will be competitive in EVERY game the rest of the season and are bound to start winning soon! We're only at the 1/3 mark of the season.

Yes, lets say that stats alone are misleading, like Ciaráns stat that they had more possession, but where was that possession? their box? our box? their half? final third?

It's easy to keep possession in your own half when the opposition sit back and defend.

On a positive note, the pre and post-match comments from Mancini and his players show due respect for our team. They seem satisfied that both teams pretty much deserved the draw, which contrasts sharply with comments from some other managers when we have obviously been the better side overall.

I'm not relying on investment. Unless we get our act together and get the owners out, they're not going to sell. Somehow they're making money because, if they weren't, they'd sell and move on quickly!

A rested extra striker (and a rested Jelavic as a by-product), and an extra attacking winger and holding midfielder would be enough to get us up the table again if we buy correctly.

As much as Hibbert is an improvement we saw again his attacking limitations yesterday. Short passes into the box went astray as usual,nil vision and even less touch. Still unlike with Coleman at least we're not shitting ourselves every time the opposition attacks down the right. We looked solid yesterday. Gibson takes some credit for that too.

The midfield of Fellaini, Gibson, Osman vs Silva, Toure and Barry was an interesting tussle with ours looking the better. Fellaini is an absolute power house, and would fit any side in the world, end of. No-one else in the Premier League comes close as a Number 6, but for us at Number 10 he's pretty unplayable.

Fans can throw whatever at him, but he is the strongest player in the league and has the skills to go with it. I rate Toure, but Fellaini gave a real game against him and passed the test. I don't fear Premier League clubs coming in for him – more the Spanish duo... impossible? Maybe not...

Coleman looks better playing at right back and looking to hit space with his basic play. I don't think he has enough in his locker to play wide right as his feet aren't quick enough, nor does he have a trick other than kick and run. He's got to improve his defensive play and grab a right back berth. If he doesn't, I am sure we can sell him for a big fee, and let someone else work it out. It's going to be a challenge as Hibbert is going to take some shifting now.

If Fellaini does go, I hope it's at the end of the season. I would possibly have Michu lined up as a replacement.

That is the sad reality for me, when you consider that we're talking about a team that was in the "third" division not that long ago.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but consider yesterday that Arsenal fans were protesting about the way their club is operating. (They Black Scarf Movement made it clear it was nothing to do with Arsene Wenger, even though a few fans think his time is up - sounds familiar?) Last season I was talking to some Arsenal execs after they beat us 1-0 at Goodison, and they told me how the new stadium had transformed their finances. They also told me how much cash-at-hand they had (something that was confirmed when they released their accounts).

I mean, we really have nothing to complain about do we? (Aside from shite reffing).

Off-topic again, I thought Phil Neville was excellent on MOTD last night (this morning when I saw it). Far better than the ex-RS that dominate it.

The point is well known and has been made frequently and is just that we have some really good players but a think squad and that is why I suspect this season will be really frustrating as we play some great football but tiredness and some mediocre reserves see us drop points where we can ill afford to and most likely finish somewhere 5th-7th — unless we can bring in two or three more good players — which we can't afford to.

If you think that such actions are:

1) an acceptable part of the game; or

2) that you would be proud of an Everton player doing the same thing to gain an advantage...

Then you come from a different generation of football supporters than me.

But I hope not.

Are you seriously suggesting that the prolonged Man City possession in the second half was all in their own half of the pitch?

You're making stuff up...

As for the penalty, it was a stupid foul... Yes, players get away with that all the time, but I'd prefer they didn't. If it had been against one of our own, these pages would've been filled with anger.

My point is that possession counts for nowt if you don't score, which they didn't and therefore didn't deserve the point.

The difference between us and Totenham is that they have Sigurdasson to take his place and Dembelle to take up the creative slack and forward drive. With Mirallas out we've got Naismith and Gueye to come in, and the standard drops.

Still a team without Bale is a lesser entity and gives us a better chance of getting 3 points and narrowing the gap between us.

Mirallas cannot come back quick enough, get Donovan next month, and possibly another striker, BTW Phil Neville was guest on MotD, and he said that Fellaini considers his best position as DM.

So possession is not an indicator of 'desrvedness to win' and I doubt I've ever said we deserved to win because we had more possession.

Coleman looks better playing at right back... — what have you been watching?? Coleman at right back is a nightmare!! He is clueless!! As for playing wide right on the basis that, his only asset is his pace. I wonder if Usain Bolt is available in January???

Plus the idea that we could sell him for a "big fee" is I'm afraid pie in the sky. There's a reason he cost £60k... He's shite!!

You're all over the place. Either you're claiming we dominated, or your not.

Most of the second half we were defending in our own half of the pitch.

The hearsay twaddle from the 4th official isn't proof of anything, Fellaini transgressed right in front of the referee and I think that is what he gave the penalty for.

I'm just disputing that possession is entirely relevent without knowing where on the field that possession was and what the result of the possession was.

They may have had more possession but had 1 shot at goal, so what use is possession? and what use is it as proof of a deserved point?

Si, so you're saying releasing hold of Dzeko's shirt caused him to fall over? Sounds a bit like describing a dive to me? And if a dive is not cheating?

So, I think a foul was committed even if Dzeko reacted theatrically and would have hoped for a penalty if the same thing had happened to one of our players attempting to get on the end of a cross in the opposition's area. Harsh decision in light of what routinely happens, but technically a foul was committed on Dzeko (by Fellaini) and so the penalty was awarded for that and not the theatrical dive that followed.

I don't know what your claiming, other than we 'deserved' to win.

Here's a clue... I'm trying to figure out on what basis you come to this conclusion. You keep saying they had one shot on goal, frankly that's untrue, and in any case, what the opposing team did is hardly the full story in regard to 'how WE deserved to win'.

Now, if you wouldn't mind explaining how you come to the above conclusion, that would be great..

ps: Stating that we scored from open play, and they didn't is hardly cogent.

And asking what a referee saw, is just plain daft.

I think the problem lies with the positioning of Fellaini. Jelavic's run of form last season coincided with Fellaini playing (his preferred) deeper role in midfield. But how could you move Fellaini back during his recent run of form?

Gareth Bale Tottenham Hotspur 6
Edin Dzeko Manchester City 6
Steven Fletcher Sunderland 6
Rickie Lambert Southampton 6
Nikica Jelavic Everton 5
Sergio Aguero Manchester City 5
Dimitar Berbatov Fulham 5
Javier Hernandez Manchester United 5
Shane Long West Bromwich Albion 5
Romelu Lukaku West Bromwich Albion 5
Juan Mata Chelsea 5
Kevin Nolan West Ham United 5

So if the ref didn't see the foul and only the dive then it's not a foul, he's been conned, same as a player making a dive when he hasn't been touched. And if the ref saw the foul, why didn't he see the other 80 odd fouls from all the other corners where no player dived?

You seem to think that they deserved a draw because they had possession and I'm saying that possession proves nothing, it's what you do with possession that counts (e.g. scoring goals) and City did nothing with their possession, as the commentators noted, City had 1 shot the whole game.

So if City didn't deserve the draw then by extension I guess you can conclude that we deserved to win.

Barry, if Jelavic or any of our players had dived I would hang my head in shame, as I always do when Vic goes to ground.

It's daft to ask what the ref saw – because it's regressive nonsense... the fact that he (or the linesman) seen a foul committed – is undeniably self evident. However, you keep chasing your tail.

First of all, what he could easily have spotted was Dzeko making a move to get away from Fellaini, moving diagonally towards the six yard area near the back post. Fellaini is caught on his heels and reacts by reaching out and grabbing a fistful of Dzeko's shirt to check his momentum and try to get back on terms, all in the unimpeded eye-line of the referee. Dzeko takes the easy option by allowing the tug to turn him, Fellaini releases his hold, and Dzeko (having given up on competing for the ball) tumbles theatrically. In my mind, even though Dzeko makes a meal of it, he was fouled and so it cannot simply be termed a dive.

Secondly, and possibly most significantly for the referee, is the fact of where the ball ends up being delivered in the box. It is right where Dzeko, given an unimpeded run, could have got to and been faced only with the rather diminutive Leon Osman. All in all, an excellent opportunity for an attempt on goal disrupted by Fellaini.

I suspect referees have decided that rather than try to decide which of the multiple offences that occur at every corner they are going to penalise, they merely focus on those that either prevent an attacker from having a reasonable attempt on goal or a defender / goalkeeper from clearing it.

Despite what our manager was told by the fourth official, I think that the referee simply penalised an obvious pull back on a striker moving to the exact spot where the ball was shortly to arrive.

I think refereeing simply on consequences is a weak way to do things and there is still the issue of apparent biases towards the most fawned-over teams, but still think we would have wanted a penalty if the roles had been reversed.

The problem lies with the ambiguity with the rules, and the freedom given to referees in terms of 'interpretation'. The media do not help at all, making the 'common sense' comment when it suits them. Until referees are given strict rules to follow, the 'glamour' clubs will always get better treatment.

Last night's game at Newcastle was a prime example, and I was disappointed that Gary Neville seems to have lost his bollocks, and took the 'poor ref's' side following the award of a penalty and a red card for a fair shoulder charge.

I don't expect us to get any favours from officials between now and the end of the season - in fact, they will probably cost us another 10 points or so - but we should be used to it by now...

Then how do you explain the many instances in every game where the refs award fouls when there wasn't one? Or don't award fouls when there clearly was one?

And the same applies to throw-ins, corners, goal-kicks.

Refs don't always get it right.

So, in this case, did the ref see a foul, or see the player dive? And would the foul have been awarded if there had been no dive?

Please stop.