Relax and enjoy, says Phil Neville

Everyone knows we carry a threat down the left with Leighton and Steve so teams set plans to cope with that for a top place. Now we have a similar threat down the right it doubles the problems for opposing defences.

The fans feed off the added entertainment and it makes Goodison Park a difficult place to come to. I just hope that Kevin comes back strong and is not affected by his injury!!

I also believe that DM desperately needs a couple of new faces to add strength to the squad and enable us to sustain our challenge.

I'll relax if I'm told that this crab captain of ours is not playing in a game/will never play again. He is absolutely shocking in midfield and, even if he does clap and shout somewhat, that does not in any shape or form compensate for the dire drivel he serves up in the middle. He's better at right back but please not at the expense of (shit Shite just gone 4-0 up) recently flowering Seamus.

In other words, hang your boots up, you're 37 and getting worse with each passing year. All this 'next gaffer' stuff scares me too. Yeah, let's have an untried, unseasoned, sideways Pip as our next gaffer or the one after that – he's got a coaching badge, after all.

At long last Moyes seems to be getting it. Neville has been subbed in recent games and let's hope for the love of Everton that this is the slippery slope to the bench and then retirement. A fine pro, okay? But a player who offers us very little on the pitch except as some will say, all that chapping and gesturing and huffing and puffing that nowhere near makes up for his bottom-drawer performances. Can't he clap and gesture and huff and puff from the sidelines?

Sort your fucking head out.

The fella has come here and completely embraced the club, says its the best thing he's ever done. He is one of the main reasons why standards of discipline, professionalism and respect for the club, which had fallen off a cliff, have been transformed.

We have to go for the win at Saints and a goal glut to boot. Stuff you're patience thing Phil, we should be on a mission — I don't want to be looking over my shoulder at the Dark Side.

Now here's a couple of questions for you: How and why, before he arrived, had standards at Everton fallen off the cliff? What were these standards that needed to to be fixed? In other words: what the fuck are you talking about? Neville arrives and saves our slipping standards.

How about you sort your fucking head out Bobby? Absolute bollocks.

Do you remember our skipper sitting in the away end at a Man Utd match (away end) with his kids, decked out in red last year?

I repeat what I said, soft lad: Neville's supposed team-rousing gestures and claps and shouts in no shape or form make up for the sideways shite player he is in the middle. Okay?

3 goals in 3. Wow!

Why did Chelsea flat refuse to play him when they only had one other striker who was in the worst form of his life? He's a little gobshite who belongs over the park.

If we are so broke that we can no longer compete with any other club in the league, hen I want to know why! I find it impossible to believe that we finish top ten each season and have decent gates but no money for transfers.

Dead right I'm frustrated and jealous.

Paul Ferry - harsh. Neville isn't the greatest footballer but does bring something to the team that others don't. You call it clapping & shouting / huffing & puffing... I call it leadership and organisation. I don't know what standard you have played to but, from personal experience, don't underestimate it. Would / should he play if everyone is fit? ...no (in my opinion), but he's not a bad option to have in the squad.

And finally, who gives a shit what result they got today? Stop the paranoia and worry about what we do.

Refreshing to read that sort of analysis...

Some are only happy when they are slagging someone, anyone, off. How sad.

Well said Phil, your commitment and leadership is much appreciated at least by most fans.

You seem to revel in generalized observations drawing on your polar oppositions and demanding that others answer your questions – but remember how you did not answer mine to you about your imaginative leaps from careful critiques of Moyes to asking people well who's better then?

I am afraid that there are traits of at best avoidance and at worst splashes of cowardice. Your point here, if there is one, is again sugar-coated tunnel vision pontification. Why the fuck shouldn't this Neville reflection allow people to comment on Neville? And who are you to say we cannot? Your intervention is more like laying down a law than an opinion.

You need to start adding some substance to what you say; do the same things that you ask of others; respond to perfectly reasonable questions; and get off your misconstrued loyal-at-all-costs saccharine high horse.

Nice try, Ian, but this sort of silly snide brinkmanship was not there on the other thread and is not good. Be smarter next time... and that applies to you also, Mr Wainwright (#849), there is a certain symbolic irony – given the sugary homage to PN's apparent devotion to us that appears in this thread – in the image of our skipper in the Man Utd away end, I'm sure that you can realize that (many on here did at the time) and also realize that that was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment.

I happen to agree with what Neville said and don't think it warranted a personal attack on him for saying it. If you think we shouldn't relax and enjoy our team's great season so far then that's your choice, but I don't see any need to lay into him or anyone else for that matter who happens to disagree with you.

Why don't you just type: "I hate Phil Neville"? It's a lot quicker.

"Now here's a couple of questions for you: How and why, before he arrived, had standards at Everton fallen off the cliff? What were these standards that needed to to be fixed? In other words: what the fuck are you talking about?"

The standards I refer to are the very ones I mentioned: discipline, professionalism and respect for the club. Did you miss those? Moyes came in and gradually changed the culture of the club and only takes people who (generally; there are exceptions) fit into the ethos of the club.

Hard work, be the best you can every day. Phil Neville was brought in, made club captain sharpish, and is a standard bearer at the club for being ultra professional; getting the best out of yourself and if anyone drops their standards he let's them know. The culture of the club now is completely different from the one Moyes took over.

Phil Neville came through the system at Man Utd where they produce men. If they don't make the grade at Man Utd, they will have a very good career somewhere else (Gibson???) because the standards of professionalism, discipline, self-respect and respect for others, being the best you can every day, are drilled into them. He has brought those standards here and I remain convinced it's one of the reasons Moyes took him.

There's another thread going today about the The Big Man, Fergie. How he could have done with some of Phil Neville's attitude, who is still playing and playing well at 36 and has rarely been injured in his career because he is doing yoga at 6/7 in the morning. He will get another deal and rightly so.

What the fuck am I talking about? I'm talking about the previous DECADE to when Moyes arrived Paul. Only that. It's only a brief period of time, I can understand you missing it. In case you can't remember it, let me give you a brief outline of what we were like:

We were shite.

There is a downer on Phil Neville. It's popular to deride him and belittle him, that he is basically shite. He isn't

When he plays the holding role, people tend to be of the opinion that he isn't that player. That we are making do, that it is a quick fix till something better comes along.

He has been playing in midfield before he turned up here. He played for Man Utd alongside Keane or on his own in there. He has been playing the holding role for years now. Defensively he is a good one. The holding player is vital to the shape of the team and the balance. We need to play with one and Neville plays it well. It isn't showy or flashy and a lot of the work – the reading of the play, seeing things early, covering – goes unseen, unnoticed or unacknowledged.

On the ball.... well, he hardly has a lot of vision!! He keeps it simple, keeps the ball moving; part of the job of a holding player is continuity and keeping of the ball. But the main aspect of his role is defensive and is vital to the shape of the team and the way we play.

But that's too boring for you I suppose, Paul. Paul demands to be entertained, goddammit!!! You deride him as shite and only reference the passing and gloss over or dismiss all the good he brings to the club. It says a lot about people that it's fashionable to knock him.

On the issue of his kids wearing Man Utd kits, well.... he's from Manchester, he came through the ranks at Man Utd playing for the club he supported and his kids, shock, support Man Utd. Big fucking deal. Who do Rooney's kids support? Is that really the best you can do?

I couldn't give a shit; he turns up and is the best he can be for Everton – everyday.

I repeat, he said coming here was the best thing he ever did and has thrown himself into the place completely, is dedicated to it, plays wherever whenever needed, and is 100% professional. We are a much better club for having him here.

And for that, he gets shit from wankers like Paul Ferry.

Neville still has an important role at the club, it will be difficult to replace a man of his character and attitude who can get the maximum out of his ability.

Paul, answer to that one mate!

Coleman got man of the match at weekend and in my opinion Neville played a part in Coleman having a very good game. It's not his fault he stayed on the pitch when he wasn't really needed.

As for what he's said, there's nothing wrong with being positive. To get slagged off and called a joke for it is just mental.

Paul, because you think Neville had a shit game against Swansea, I was just wondering when would it be alright for our Captain to speak again?

First of all, you did not answer my question. Asserting again that 'discipline, professionalism and respect for the club' are standards is well and good, but you have not given me a single scrap of evidence and you would have to provide a fair amount to make the point stick. As of now, I have assertions and nothing else.

I had a season ticket from 1979-2002 when I moved to the States and the aways I missed in the 90s you can count on the fingers of one hand, so I think I know the years you are speaking of. I can remember incidents and soft lads at the club before Moyes but no endemic problem of indiscipline and dire lack of professionalism and respect for the club.

Likewise, I can recall some pretty bad incidents and soft lads under Moyes. To state that there was an endemic problem of the sort you say Bobby, you have to provide hard and considerable evidence, not just say it – so your opening paragraphs and digs are redundant for the most part.

I recall us being shite, having a chairman I hated, smaller crowds, missing relegtion twice by the skin of our teeth, but what I do not see is this what I might call 'professional malaise'.

Now I totally agree about what DM brought to the club in terms of training and sure, tighter disciplinary standards... but that in no way means I agree with you about our state pre-Moyes. But some of this dampens your first post about Neville who was the knight in shining armour dispensing new standards.

Sure – let's call PN a model pro, why not, he was well groomed... but, unless my memory's fuzzier than I thought, didn't an awful lot of people think he was shite at Man Utd? And those who cared about England rolled their eyes when he turned out for his country.

Neville has never been a top quality player and he continues to give less with each passing year. He is not a Giggs or Scholes. In an ideal world, he would not be in our team. Your analysis of what PN offers is more like a mosaic of what he has done from time to time and, agreed, in his prime he was fine. He is not now. That is my view, I am entitled to it, and I'm sorry that you think I am a 'wanker' for saying so. Shame that as your post was very reasonable and mature up to then.

Oh, by the way: there's a good reason why PN says that joining us was the best thing he ever did. He was not getting a game at Man Utd and his days there were numbered. He was no longer considered good enough to play in a team with Champions League ambitions. So, he ended up with us and stayed in Manc Quays.

Tough that... I am sure that he is chuffed to be with us and to represent us – as I said, 36-year-old skipper taking a dive apart. He is a good pro... but I would rather it was less on the pitch. But then, what does a wanker know, eh?

Did you miss those? Moyes came in and gradually changed the chronolohi more efc...????

[Er... Paul, I have no idea what you were trying to say here at the end — MK]

How about never. I fail to see how he played a part in Coleman being man of the match, was it when he took the ball off his toe when he had a good chance to score?

All these people defending Neville's performances I have 2 simple questions.

How often does Neville make a tackle and come away with the ball cos I honestly can't remember the last time he did and surely this is a basic requirement of a holding midfielder?

How often do you come away from a game and think Neville was great today because if he was that important and that good at his job then this would be happening often?

He may not be a world beater spraying 50-yard passes all over the pitch or dishing out crunching tackles (Ronaldo aside – season-defining by the way) but just his presence, experience and professionalism and love for the club more than merits a place in our hearts and deservedly so as our team is all the better for people like him. A true captain in every sense of the word!!!

Thanks for the service, Phil, you did great many times and it is very appreciated. If only we could afford a Vadis Odidja-Ofoe or suchlike, we could relax and enjoy a lot more with PN cheering on and working on the coaching side, with a more powerful and youthful dynamo in the midfield when Gibbo is unavailable.

Probably no to the first one, and I think maybe a few times to the second one.

But you're sounding as if we think he's the most important player in the team, but I really don't think. He is a limited player, he hasnt got the most ability in the world, but as a squad player, with his experience, his leadership qualities, his versatility and his commitment, what would be the point getting rid of him?

I would never've believed that an ex pure red through-and-through Man Utd player would come to a Liverpool club like Everton and throw his heart and soul into the team and come out the other side a true blue himself. That being said, I have to agree with a post on another thread that said how come we fans see that a player is past his sell-by date two years before Moyes does?

I say this: If Phil Neville considers himself a professional footballer, why can't he see himself that he is way off the pace and skill on the ball?? As he undoubtedly IS!!!

Moyes is also part of the problem, he just can't say NO to him. Sorry, folks, to those who still admire him, but the guy really is past it... Sadly. All we've really got left is to rail at Moyes who keeps picking him — not the man himself.

Oh and please fate/god/good fortune get us another midfielder to partner Gibson so we can keep Osman at bay!!

Because I don't believe he worthy of a place in the team or even to come off the bench nevermind being captain. I despute his squad player status as well, he is the first name on Moyes's team sheet and would even crowbar him into left wing to get him on the pitch.

Nice defense Bobby. You raise some good points imo.

Now we have people saying Phil Neville's not as bad as he's painted, much the same as BK and DM. I now put Neville in to that good point / bad point catagory.

Or look at it from another direction: he's that good (or bad) that his only rival for his place, in a game where for the most part, talent is defined by cost of transfer fee. Is a guy who cost 2 weeks of Rooney's wages and is a serial sicknote? Is this what The Bard called "damning with faint praise"?

He should only be in the team if we have 9 fit outfield players

How often does Neville start on the bench even when Gibson is fit? He is an automatic starter not a squad player. Experience counts for nothing if you don't learn from it and I still see Neville making the same stupid late tackles in dangerous areas when it was obvious he was never going to get the ball. While I wish all players gave 100% in every game it again counts for nothing if your 100% effort still equals poor to average performances.

Jim Knightley, I agree with having him about the dressing room.. He is an example of the better side of footballers. The great John Arlott nominated Brierly in his all time best cricket eleven for his captaincy alone. Now, I wouldn't put Neville's contribution quite like that but I believe Everton is better with him here in some role, but not n the pitch,

(in a pinch, he's just good enough to continue to play RB but certainly not in the middle)

He talks too much anyways without saying a damn thing.

On another note, we DO NOT need another coach who has no offensive capabilities. I shutter to think of a coaching staff consisting of all like-minded, route one defensive players. Our coaching staff has compiled 1,614 games between them and a paltry 96 goals. (I actually thought it would be lower tbh)

I think you know you're overexaggerating there. I think Andy is spot on. Him playing a lot shows our squad as weakness. But when we have Gibson injured, we have no other defensive minded centre mid. He has to be in. With the emergence of Coleman, and once Gibson is fit, he should be on the bench. Simple as.

But I still wouldnt get rid of him. As long as his wages arent too high, his experience will only benefit us.

We will see when Gibson is fit and by the way Neville is on £50k a week. Even if you rate him do you think he is value for money?

If he gets a new contract, he'd be on lower terms anyway.

I'll even tint my hair.

On a serious one, we have no money and pay guys like Phil Neville £50k a week?? That's so disappointing and unbalanced. Very discouraging.

Neville may be an "inspiration" off the field of play in terms of how to keep competing at his age and how to prepare himself and conduct himself, but all that matters is the 90 minutes on a Saturday (or Sunday or Monday... or whatever bloody day Sky want us playing).

For me, a team captain needs to be one of your better performers. How can any young player (or one of his peers) look up to a guy who consistently plays so many hospital balls, and is so often negative with his play? He makes a good club captain, but his performances on field are not of a consistently high enough standard to be getting into our team regularly.

When Barkley makes mistakes and loses the ball resulting in a chance for the opposition, he's deemed not good enough to play for us. Neville makes similar mistakes on a more regular basis than most of our players, yet he seems to be teflon-coated. I know which player I'd prefer to see making mistakes... the one that has potential to improve and be a very good midfielder in a few years (and the one who is earning a fraction of what Neville costs us).

When he came, Moyes replaced old has-beens (on big money) with young players with a point to prove. Players deemed not good enough elsewhere (Pienaar, Arteta, Howard), or players looking to move to the next level at a better club (Lescott, Baines, Cahill) – all had potential and a point to prove.

Neville was part of that group: surplus to requirements at Man Utd, but better than what we had at the time. It's now probably a few years past when he should have been sold (did Spurs offer £3M for him a while back??) and room made for a younger, cheaper player with potential to improve.

Moyes needs to keep doing what he started to do 10 years ago, and rotate the older members of the squad out and get new guys in. I'd agree completely with those who say he keeps players on well past their sell-by date. People bitch that we have no money to spend, but when you're paying 37-year-olds £50k/wk, or defenders who barely play about £60k/wk, then we can begin to see where that £60M we spend each year on the playing staff goes.

Get rid of the deadwood, get more young players with quality. Italy and Spain are probably hot-beds of technically gifted yet highly professional footballers who are at clubs currently with financial issues. Let's get some of them signed up to build for the future.

Pip, old son. As an adopted Evertonian, and there have been many over the years, you are a very good one. And I love you to bits. You do lots of good jobs for us and we are a better team/club with you. But...

Going forward very importantly involves passing the ball to a man wearing blue. And against the Swans you woefully failed to do that time and time again. You are not a creative midfielder, never have been, never will be. In possibly the most technical game of our season – Swansea are a powerful passing unit – you came up short.

WTF you were thinking about taking the ball off Seamus as he was bearing down on goal I will never know – do you?

So – agree to play at RB any time we need you, but for the good of the club, and your own reputation, never play forward mid for us again.

Respectfully yours.

Ha, ha!

Past his "sell-by" date – his game is straight rotten at this point.

You want to be a good "locker room guy" - stop messing up. The like of Seamus Coleman will respect you more if you stop taking the ball off their feet and make the right decisions. You ARE the captain, right??

Sadly for his salary, we could have 2 or 3 young players adding drive and verve to our game and adding new dimensions. This was a right howler by Moyes IMO and we've certainly tied one hand behind our back with donkeys like this continually being signed up for extended contracts. I'm proud to have had his services for so long but he should've been sold 2 years ago.