Blues win out with a great Mirallas goal

I was really impressed by their lad Shotton however: fast, strong and a bit of attitude.

But I predict that the post-match reaction from that advocate of the beautiful game Pulis will be all about the offside goal. It was, and was a brave decision by the linesman given the activity in the area at the time.

Good solid performance - getting a bit frustrated with Jelavic though; he should be burying headers like the one he got early on the game from Baines's pass. What happened to strikers rule of heading the ball down!

Not complaining though and next up a very tough away fixture against Gareth Bale.

Grateful to Mirallas for a terrific goal that made the difference: Kanchelskis-like is the best compliment I can pay him, I was totally confident he'd score as soon as he shook off Nzonzi in the centre circle.

Stoke are just fucking vile in the way they play, which is baffling to me seeing as I would gladly have any of their front 4 in our squad. Pulis is just one ugly cynical gobshite of a coach - it must be soul-destroying for a decent player to have to play for that twat.

So, a potential banana skin avoided, onward to the remaining football matches with hope and confidence.

Playing the competition away is not that bad for us - they will all feel the pressure, while we will just have our ace away support, no expectations and no nerves.

Just hope we go for it fully and don't just try and nick points.

COYB

So, despite it being a crap spectacle, thanks to Stoke, hats off to Moyes and the lads. Bring on the spuds next.

Fingers crossed the fans that want him to start every game will be a little more reasonable now.

I will have to see the replay of MotD show it for our regular 3 minutes slot at the end of their show when it looked like the linesman at the end of the game was waving for a handball against that fat ex RS Adams when the ref decided to give him a free kick instead, luckily he blew his whistle just as he took it.

Barkley also looked to have gotten the ball cleanly when he was carded.

Moyes waited for ages before he brought him on ( he was warming up forever) and it took Mirallas getting a knock to force Moyes hand.

We have some great young tent being held back by Moyes. He has said himself the squad is old and yet he won't play the lads who would lower the average age by 5 years overnight.

I thought the team played well today in an unfamiliar formation, but I said to my son with 30 minutes to go "I bet he takes Mirallas off" ....negative .....negative negative ....and I feared the worst when they got that free kick in the last 30 seconds, taking off the attacking threat always invites the opposition to have a go and luckily for once the substitution didn't backfire. After 11 years Moyes' substitutions continue to baffle both as to personnel and timing.

My money was already on Mirallas coming off as DM has done it a few times now to general bewilderment. It doesn't take away from my point in any case, Moyes seems to hate playing young talent and only does so in extremis.

Ian cast your mind back to Wigan the other week, I will guarantee you the man who made a pub football error in our biggest game of the season will start next week for us.

"that fat ex RS Adams". His name is Adam. Stop offending my name with these slanderous miss-spellings!!

The rest I agree with.

Absolutely nothing to do with any injury, all medical records were submitted in advance, before the player had landed at Goodison. The private jet was paid for by FC Twente. What does Lyndon think about that transfer now?

Ian, Barkley had 10 minutes. In that time, I saw Baines give the ball away, Osman give the ball away and Barkley also gave the ball away. Serious double standards are at work in your eyes and Moyes's eyes too I think.

What else did Barkley show? He showed fantastic long range passing with his crossfield ball to Coleman's feet, a technically sound performance with good composure when he received the ball. A willingness to get stuck in and win the ball with some very strong challenges against a physical Stoke side. He certainly didn't look out of place and I'd be happy to see him given a start in one of our remaining home fixtures if Mirallas needs to rest his hams.

Well, thats that one over with. Goodison was a bit flat I thought - these 5.30 kick - offs do that - but 3 points in the bag and a fairly accomplished performance.

For all the shit I've given Moyes about a lack of tactical ability, he did bloody brilliant today. I winced as I read the teamsheet, predicting Jags at RB and Coleman RW. Then I saw the shape we actually took and I winced again. Moyes had done his homework though. Without Etherington Stoke have no width and our three centre halves weren't stretched all evening. Just hail mary, after hail mary, which the three of them dealt with really well.

Coleman was FUCKING great! The pace he has when running with the ball is off the scale. Baines is underperforming at the moment and this new dimention on the right is just what we need. My MOTM, easy.

Great goal by Mirallas too. We've waited years for a player who can do that sort of thing. If I was young enough to get names printed on the back of shirts, I'd be ordering a Mirallas home short sleeve next year.

Get in!

The lad is trying too hard because he doesnt get on enough. He took his top off on 62 minutes and didnt come on til 79...when the decision was forced on Moyes.

My only gripe of the day.

Oh and Mucha deserved to start

As for Barkley, a lot of people seem totally convinced of his brilliance and hence moyes' folly in not playing him. Where does this conviction come from when he has played so little at top level. Is it not maybe possible that he still needs a little more fine tuning before being relied upon for starts in the first team?

The Moyes team selection could have backfired especially knowing how they are solely reliant on the ariel game.

Next week. We may not be so lucky against Bale and company although we have had some good results at Spurs.

Who is asking for Barkley to start games?

Nobody.

We want him to be coming on regularly at 60 - 70 minutes.

And what do you mean, 'Where does this conviction come from when he has played so little at top level.'?

Thats the point! He has proved he is a class above the Reserves, week in week out. What is the next logical step?

Im afraid if you want to develop players you do have to get them on the football pitch

Steve #915, of course he was injured, anyone could see it, and our best player was rightly subbed. As for it being baffling, I guess that is why Moyes is Manager a d we are not.

Noting the comments re Barkley, I want him to succeed as much as any fan, but I did notice he lost the ball three times in his first five mins notably when he tried the outrageous back heel with almost his first touch. Great thing for a tried and tested pro to do when we are four up in a friendly, but hanging on in the last ten one nil up against Stoke, no.

Barkley did make some mistakes though and only experience will rid that from his game.

And as we all know, the best way to get experience is 90 minutes on the bench.

As for him being a class above the reserves I'm not so sure. He has been playing better recently but I have seen quite a few games where he looked no better than the rest and has been outshone by the likes of junior and even gueye on occasions.

I'm all for him getting more game time but only if the coaches think he is ready and deserves it.

All in all a good day's work.

Underperforming by his standards. I'm rewatching the game now and he has actually put in some great crosses.

He's doing okay, maybe I'm being harsh, but we all know he has more quality than he's showing at the moment.

Regarding Barkley, I think people forget how young he is. I know that is pointing out the obvious and a lot of people won't like it but very few players appear much at such a young age, normally happens around 20/21. Nick Powell's only got 2 prem appearances at United and they're in a much safer position to play him (although they have a much larger squad). That being said it is frustrating that he doesn't have a bit more time on the pitch. I wouldn't be playing him every week or even every other week as others suggest, but more often certainly. We'd all love him to be a superstar every time he came on but in reality the balance has to be found and I think Moyes isn't that far off. On this note, I think McAleny is earning himself a chance as much as Ross is.

I never said I expected Messi but if barkley is coming on to impress then a needless backheel that ricocheted out of play is not the way to do it, the way to impress and Barkley should know this is to do the simple things and not give the ball away.

As for a few other comments - he'll wind up getting injured. One of the reasons why I suspect that Ross Barkley hasn't played more games is due to the fact that he broke his leg in 3 places and was out for almost a year. All he has seemed to do when he has played for us is long shots outside of the box and not a huge amount of end product.

To the comments that referenced Naismith or Neville just because I said I fully understand why Barkley doesn't start that doesn't mean that I want either of them 2 to play in MF just like if I were to say that Jelavic needs a rest it doesn't mean that i'd want Brett Angell up front again to replace him. Nice try though to enter into a nonsense discussion about them when that's irrlevant.

Good win and one down of the 2 games without Felli and Pienaar.

We were hardly 'hanging on' Ian.
Barkley did make some mistakes though and only experience will rid that from his game.

I'm sorry but since when can a team like everton that typically win by a goal here or there avoid to carry a player that makes mistakes - that sounds harsher than it was meant but if Barkley seriously wants to be considered for starting a game then he needs to be better in possession. My natural reaction to him on the ball was a little nervy.

We weren't hanging on but they had some decent chances - Jerome just wide, Shotton header, Huth header - they looked more like equalising than we did going 2-0.

Thought Gibson was our best player. Neat, tidy, drives on at exactly the right times, and a big body in midfield makes a big difference. Really turning into more than value for money - he's been outstanding since he came back.

So if Barkley doesnt start and Naismith and Neville don't get a game, our midfield will more than likely look like:

Pienaar - Osman - Fellaini - Gibson - Mirallas

Id say that around the 60 minute mark 3 of those players are starting to tire - Mirallas, Pienaar and Osman. In an ideal world, who would you like to bring on?

Barkley? Oviedo?

Moyes chooses neither. He will wait and wait and wait for the opposing manager to force his hand. And when he plays it, you just know it's going to be fucking Naismith.

He doesn't have a pro-active bone in his body.

And can we stop having a go at the young kid! I know its been a long time since we saw a youngster come through the ranks...but they all make mistakes. It's normal and it's part of their development.

'since when can a team like everton that typically win by a goal here or there avoid to carry a player that makes mistakes '

Youve got to be fucking kidding me?!?!?!?!

Neville! Naismith! Heitinga!

Week after fucking week these guys have been abysmal, yet you have a go at a 19 year old lad who gets 10 minutes to prove his worth.

Jesus Christ, fella, submit your CV to David Moyes, theres a coaching job with your name on it. What a total pile of shite to come out with.

I see you conveniently forgot the Wigan game.

So it seems anyone can filter events to prove their point

Please do the same and compare Barkley with Osman. Our experienced pro (who I happen to be a fan of) gave the ball away not only more frequently, but in more dangerous positions,

What do you make of that, Ian?

I'm not 'fucking' kidding you and you've completely missed the 'fucking' point, this is not about the merits of Heitinga, Naismith or Neville, I don't agree with how much they have played this year and Neville has been a disaster but thats not my point. My point is that if Moyes believes that Barkley (or indeed any player) is prone to mistakes then we shouldn't be giving them game time at the expense of the team or the result.

I'm not having a go at the young kid all I have said is that is easy to see why based on his actual appearances he hasn't played more.

I'm not saying that he isn't good enough that he won't be a great player etc so you can pack in your over defensive stance.

As for the 60 minute mark - players shouldn't be too tired but of course sometimes form will dip so it would be nice to have some quality to bring on, i'm not of the mindset that a change should be made for the sake of it, can't see Naismith changing the game so all that question you've posed has done has reinforced my opinion that we need more - if you're asking I would have Oveido on before Barkley.

Try not to be so melodramatic, you say i'm talking shite but when you go on about Naismith, Neville and Heitinga then you're the one talking shite because that's a different conversation to the one that i'm having.

We have a tiny squad of genuine Premier League class players without adequate substitutes. Barkley did not get a place in a poor Leeds Utd side. None of the youngsters we have released are doing very well except in the lower leagues.

If we produced a Wilshere, Walcott or any other young player who is playing regularly for the top teams we would certainly be playing him or them!!

Moyes would be delighted if we had reserve talent to pick from without needing to spend money. Players who warrant a game get games eg; Coleman and Anichebe. Obviously Barkley and Duffy are not considered up to it and while we are still playing for an outside chance of Europe we should play our tried and trusted first team when they are all available. We won a game today without Felli and Peanaar or Hibbo on the bench.

Almost every other team in the league has a stronger bench than we have and we have to play the same striker/s up front because we have no alternatives. Look at the bench FFS and smell the coffee.

Moyes has thrown the gauntlet down and wants money to buy fresh faces or he will resign. He has taken EFC as far as he can without money.

How can you support the manager's limited use of Barkley if you don't agree with his use of Heitinga, et al?

You are singling out Ross Barkley for special criticism by saying that the same man who cannot see the failings of other (worse) players is the perfect person to make the decisions on how much game time the youngster gets.

You are not making sense and your bias is evident,

Osman has the backing of the manager in the same way that Baines could score an horrific own goal and miss a penalty and still be picked the next game. Barkley hasn't got that yet so the point being about why he doesn't get more time still stands - he didn't give moyes any dilemma as to whether he should start ot not.

As for Andy (997) I agree was a good win and the Barkley thing was just my one observation towards the end of the game - wasn't looking for a pro/anti moyes debate and certainly not the suggestion that I want neville back in

Codswallop, Trevor! Check the full version of what Warnock said about dropping Ross Barkley. He couldn't play him in the FA Cup (he had been selected before that) and Warnock claimed that he then didn't want to upset the lads who had had a good result in the Cup.

He was obviously trying to get Everton to allow the lad to play for Leeds in the next round of the Cup as we wanted Ross to be playing regularly. It was brinksmanship, and plenty of Leeds United fans were disappointed he returned to us.

Ian, you are the one who started this by stating that Ross Barkley had apparently shown himself to be inferior to all the alternatives that the manager has preferred in the short amount of time he had on the pitch.

You made the comparison, others are just disagreeing with your assessment (and pointing out its inconsistencies).

'Why oh why does so many fans think that our youngsters are good enough to start when the manager and his aides who see them every time they play think otherwise.'

I see him play every week and I think he is good enough.

'Barkley did not get a place in a poor Leeds Utd side.'

He did get a place and he was without doubt their best player. He missed a cup game due to the terms of his loan and the next league game Warnock dropped him. This was met roundly with outrage from Leeds fans - I know because I live there - they couldn't believe they were giving up such a player and playing Michael Brown.

'None of the youngsters we have released are doing very well except in the lower leagues.'

Hope Akpan aside, most of the players weve released - Wallace, Forshaw, Baxter have gone on to star in lower league side and that is because they have talent. Once a blue moon you get a player in the ranks who is destined for the top. Messi, Ronaldo, even Rooney - these guys are going to the top no matter what. A level down for that you have kids who come through who 'could be' great. The clubs job is to either get them into the first team or sell them off to at least cover the cost of the academy.

If you honestly think that we are doing the best with what our academy delivers then you had better see a doctor.

In the last 11 years Moyes has recieved a multitude of talented 16 - 17 year olds and has done the square root of fuck all with them.

All my initial point was in support of Barkley not starting that doesn't mean that I want Neville or Heitinga to start instead or that I feel we shouldn't blood Barkley in when appropriate.

Just to confirm my strongest 11 would be as follows;

Howard
Coleman, Distin, Jags, Baines
Mirrallas Osman Fellaini, Gibson, Pienaar
Jelavic/ Anichebe (Anichebe on current form)

Subs most likely to use depending on cover needed - Jelavic/Anichebe, Oviedo, Heitinga.

Barkley isn't and in my opinion hasn't done anything to suggest Moyes should start him.

Feel free to go off on a tangent again

'he probably could have more game time when times have allowed it'

The exact point you have been arguing against all evening.

Few beers yeah - must be because you're arguing with the intellect of a 10 year old.

To suggest that the manager is right in only applying this criteria to a youngster (who has to learn in a game situation what he can get away with or not) rather than established players is applying different and unreasonable standards.

That is wholly inconsistent and you are showing a positive bias to a manager who you think regularly gets things wrong (unless you actually think he has no alternative all the times he has selected Phil Neville) and a negative bias to a player you have not seen enough of to make a properly informed opinion of.

You can't look at Barkley only, you have to consider all of our players equally or your opinion has no validity.

If you can't understand that then you are an idiot.

I think you'll find I'm arguing with someone who's intellect falls well below that of a ten year old.

Ok, back to the very basics here. How, in your eyes, do we make Barkley the great player that Cahill, Sheedy, Stubbs, Sharp, Moyes et al have already touted as the best young prospect they have seen in 10 years?

Barkley gave the ball away a fair bit again but hopefully he will make it. Coleman, Distin and Jags all played well.

Three points well earned, two behind Chelski, six behind Spurs with a game in hand. Five points less than last season with eight games to go. Not bad for a manager who is technically inept.

Fellaini was shite against Wigan, stormed off the pitch etc yet started against City and rightly so - someone in Barkley's position couldn't do that - he's not established and needs to perform when given the opportunity. Players like Baines, Fellaini etc have banked enough good performances to carry a poor one - Barkley hasn't so to suggest it has to be applied 'to all players equally, no matter whether they are established or not' is quite frankly a load of bollocks.

Phil back to basics Cahill came to us aged 24/25 not 19 and played in the Championship first, Sheedy was 23 and played lower league first, Stubbs turned pro in the 3rd division (out of interest why did you choose stubbs). Thats even if Barkley can cut it - who knows yet but its not realistic to 'gamble' as we chase europe.

Good point Tony Williams, trying to get away from the Barkley debate but seems all of his extended family are on here.

Put down your sherry and read my post again.

I await a completely different answer...

All I can say which repeats myself is that Barkley hasn't done enough to force his way into the team but i'm not of the opinion that we should start him now just because he may prove to be better than what we have - he needs to prove it when he gets 10, 20, 30 mins and give Moyes that selection headache.

That is what everyone is asking for. I don't think anyone would have Barkley starting in their ideal 11. He needs to prove himself, you're absolutely right, but Moyes won't give him the chance.

I know it wasn't a corner, but looking back at the replay of Mirallas's goal I thought what the hell is he doing out of the box and not defending the set play, he's going to get it at half-time!

I agree re doing the little things right would be much more beneficial to him making more appearances rather than the spectacular (i.e. back-heel to no one).

However, the 10 mins or so would have done him good, bit of exp. against a tough / solid Stoke side. A few more cameos like that – preferably earlier, depending on how the game pans out – would see (assuming/hoping) why he's so highly regarded.

Time and again, Jelavic would be running past him doing all the closing down up front. If the lad wants it he needs to put in what he did last week every week

For him to make a dramatic U-turn in tactics by playing that formation yesterday is unbelievable. He even left a player outside the box when they had a corner.

I think the openness of the game will have burnt his head out. Be interesting to see what happens tactically when Pienaar and Fellaini return. Credit where it's due, he played the attacking formation and got the 3 points.

The pair of then should be nicely rested having 2 weeks off.

Again subjectively, his time on loan isn't a genuine comparison to how he could potentially play for the first team as it's been against different opposition and without a single other first team player at his side.

I thought Victor was immense yesterday and possibly our MotM. Ross's booking should be rescinded.

We need to win all our home games and get the defence sorted out. If we can keep three clean sheets away from home, we'll be there or thereabouts, but that'll be very hard.

The game was interesting, however, in the manner in which our tactics panned out. We started 3-4-3, as expected took 20 mins to settle, and when we did, had a purple patch during which the goal came. We then saw out to half-time but in the second half Stoke came out and pushed us back, this became a 5-4-1 with Jelavic looking horribly isolated.

Barkley looks ready for the first team. He gave the ball away a couple of times, sure, but then so did the more experienced heads such as Osman and Gibson. It was that type of game. He was also playing out of position on the left. When he was central and facing the play, he picked out a superb pass for Coleman.

With more game time for the likes of Barkley, Duffy, Oviedo and Vellios, we will have players who can step up and replace some of the old guard. They need to be given enough time to settle into the first team. Sitting on the bench isn't the way.

The euphemism that they are 'well-organized' hides many evils. Wenger has, as so often, been the only one to say it how it is with that shower.

Spurs will be a different game – they will play footy unlike Stoke. They will let us players though.

If we can stay tight at the back we can do it.

COYB!

I don't have to watch every minute of the stiffs because the stiffs and the first team aren't alike for like comparison, are they?

Everyone that has argued against me is making a pretty basic assumption. Just because I don't feel that he has done enough to start doesn't mean that I don't think we should use him when we can and I'm not suggesting we sell him or that he won't be good enough a little later down the line.

'Playing with three at the back didn't really work. We were very exposed. If we play like that against Spurs, we'll lose 3-0 or 4-0. The formation also gave Stoke a lot of room in midfield, oddly enough. No-one really knew where they were playing.

I thought Victor was immense yesterday and possibly our MotM.'

I sincerely doubt Moyes will play that formation against Spurs as they have good width, but against a Stoke side without Etherington and Pennant, three centre backs was a good tactic.

And Anichebe was fantastic was he? What game were you at? Did you accidentally watch the Man City game instead? He was lethargic all evening and never posed a threat. He won a few headers and that's about it – a very average performance from a guy who can be top class when he puts the effort in.

Check your own post at 000 to see where you say what you think you didn't say.

D'Oh!

Well done on the nitpicking though and your suggestion (019) about mistakes that it has to be applied 'to all players equally, no matter whether they are established or not' was laughable.

Neville hasn't featured since the Wigan game after the awful mistake he made in gifting them the second goal – if Fellaini or Baines had made that pass are you suggesting that they should lose their place in the team for reasons of consistency????

The younger players need to be getting game time somewhere if they have any chance of developing, you've had plenty of responses to why he didnt get any time at Leeds, the same goes for the other prospects at the club. Remove sentiment which should be for greetings cards and not business and if an employee - in this case player isn't good enough, they get shipped off the books, if they are going to be good enough but need experience give them it when they need it, otherwise they won't develop, make the mistakes they are going to make and learn from and improve.

How have I contradicted myself. I have just said that based on his first team appearances (yes admittedly they have been few) he hasn't done enough to start games. You can mention how he played at Leeds, in the reserves, how good e's looked in training but its not comparable is it.

Are you so dumb that you can't even understand my basic point - in the few times that Barkley has played he hasn't really enhanced his case for a place in the starting 11. I have already said that I would like him to have some more game time when we can allow it - at home to reading when we're 2-0/3-0 up.

I never even said anything about him not playing at Leeds but if you want a comment on that then Leeds play in a different division so being good enough for Leeds isn't the same as being good enough for Everton.

And that tackle he was carded for, wasn't even a foul. If that was Neville or, once upon a time, Cahill, I bet the ref would've done nothing. But young snotty gets a card.

In application, however, it seems you hold a different view. When people reply to your post on RB that other players have regularly played as poorly or even worse (and they have) but seem immune to the same sanctions, you claim not to be able to see the double standards in operation because you fully endorse the manager's decision.

Your failure to see the tautology in your own reasoning is what is laughable, not anything I have posted to point out your confusingly mixed messages.

I suppose I was taken by VA's effort in the second half. I thought Jelly played intelligently (as always), but he looks lacklustre atm. I'm still a great fan.

I have never suggested that a player should be dropped for an isolated incident, the only consistency I look for is that each performance is judged on its merits and any sanctions are applied proportionally.

Phil Neville didn't deserve to get dropped for one mistake because no player should. The fact is he shouldn't have even been on the pitch because his performance has been well below what is required / expected from him for months on end.

It is perfectly consistent of me to hold the view that Barkley shouldn't be in our starting 11 whilst also holding the view that someone that plays poorly regularly (Neville, Heitinga etc) also shouldn't start. It's not a double standard because they are not intrinsically linked, putting RB on the bench doesn't mean that PN has to start. The Naismith, Neville, Heitinga conversation has no bearing on RB and is irrelevant to any conversation about his number of starts.

I even felt the need to cite my preferred starting 11 because people on here incorrectly assumed that I want those 3 to start every game.

I don't even know what mixed messages I have put out or how anyone could deem them to be confusing. My feeling is that people saw a slight criticism of RB and went completely overboard and have tried to incorporate points into the argument that aren't even slightly relevant.

I agree with your point 120 entirely.

Neville has been poor and so him being dropped could be justified by anyone of numerous mistakes.

Fellaini/Baines/Jags etc – consistently high performers so one mistake shouldn't affect them too much.

Barkley – because he doesn't get much playing time when he does he has to be solid and mistakes will cost him playing time.

Not trying to have a chicken and the egg type argument, I know that if Barkley doesn't get enough time on the pitch then he can't be viewed in the same way as Fellaini/Baines/Jags but when he does play he needs to come in do the simple things well (not backheels, fancy tricks) and then he should get more time, then he can be as indispensable as those mentioned and be afforded mistakes here and there – he's not there yet.

It's quite simple.

You said that yesterday Barkley showed us exactly why Moyes is reluctant to start him.

Everyone else is saying that it's because he gets no time on the pitch that he tries to force the issue when he comes on. He should be given more half-hour run-outs as its the only way a young player is going to improve. We have had opportunities to bring him on but Moyes is too scared – it's his major flaw in my eyes.

You seem happy with the way Moyes is bringing him along. I'm saying if this lad is going to develop, he needs to play more first-team football.

Maybe it is a vicious cycle - Barkley trying to hard and Moyes therefore reluctant to start him.

I would like Barkey to play when it is safe but there has to be an onus for him to be responsible too. I'm not saying he did this but if Barkley is desperate to impress at the expense of doing the right things on the pitch then maybe he isn't ready - you have to be mature.

You seem happy with the way Moyes is bringing him along.

I don't know enough about this - all I know is what I see on the pitch when Barkley comes on.

You seem to be saying that RB needs to be better than the players around him in order to justify getting regular game time in games that aren't already all over bar the shouting.

People have responded to that statement saying that he is certainly no worse, and may even already be better, than some players who have played either regularly or have been used in preference to the lad from the bench.

Unless you whole-heartedly disagree with other people's assessment of some of the other players (which you state that you don't) then you are in effect supporting a double-standard where he has been excluded from the team on account of his fallibility when other players haven't. Again, I am not interested in one-offs, just sustained levels of poor play.

If Ossie flags badly in the final quarter of games (which he is prone to) then his level of performance dips below what we could potentially get from Ross (who I expect to improve as he gets more experience).

Surely an inexperienced player needs more leeway than someone already established not less. If Ross makes mistakes through poor judgement rather than lack of ability, then it is most likely that experience will teach him.

Barkley will never improve if he gets 10-15 minutes max in any game, let alone one involving that anti-football shower of shite, Stoke City. He needs either to start or to come on at half time.

You could see his desire to prove himself in the, as usual, tiny cameo he was offered but that's not the way to get the best out of him. He needs time to settle into a game and not be expected to change the match immediately he crosses the white line. OK, so he gave the ball away a couple of times, but he made a great effort to get it back.

Gibson lost possession time and time again, in fact it was the worst I've seen him play in relation to giving the ball away, and Osman, Jags etc., all conceded possession but as soon as RB does it he's deemed "not ready" for the first team.

If RB is going to make it as a Prem player for Everton he has got to be given the chance. Still, it was 3 points against a rough, alehouse team who could argue that they deserved a point. I wouldn't necessarily agree with them but they could try.

Agree completely and it really is odd (to me) how many appear fixated on any mistakes made by RB, yet seem blind when it comes to many of our experienced players who I see give possession away over and over and over again.

Excuses can (and should) be made for RB's mistakes due to his inexperience and for getting, as he does, only fleeting glimpses of the first team.

It's many of the rest of them I find hard to excuse.

Been a great signing in my opinion.

Phil, I'm not saying Gibbo, had a BAD game, just that he gave the ball away much more than usual. Some parts of his play were excellent and he is a shoo in for the midfield spot. I'd just like RB to be given some leeway to allow for his inexperience, that's all.

Eugene, good post.

What has Anichebe got that makes him so superior to Vellios? For that matter what have several others got that the likes of Barklay, Duffy and Oviedo don't? The answer is Moyes's preference and nothing else. He starts them and prays they get the right result and over the last few weeks they have except the Wigan game.

Until Moyes leaves (if ever), things won't change but the benchwarmers will get more frustrated (just like us fans) and probably leave. Despite the Premier League wins recently Everton have looked very shaky and next week's six pointer against Spurs has come at the wrong time. Moyes will start the "usual suspects" and it will be another nail-biting game.

Always go into games with an optimism but, every time we play them, reality bites. Any win against them and there abhorrent style of football is more than welcome, talking to the girl who sits next to me who rightly pointed out not even in the darkest days of Walter did we stoop to that level? Even their tattoo-branded Staffordshire Bull-terrier owning fans have had enough.

As for Barkley, if ever a young player needed a special moment, as Rooney, Anichebe and Vaughan managed, it's him. I'm still not convinced, as I never was by Rodwell, but dearly hope he can prove me wrong.

Mindful of Michael's comment about all behaving on here, I must take personal issue with you about your repeated assertion that "Barkley did not get a place in a poor Leeds side'.

You made exactly the same assertion a month ago – and several of us pointed out the inaccuracy of such a profound statement.

You are talking absolute, ill-informed, biased rubbish – and for your benefit, I will repeat what I said to you on that occasion, as you seemingly missed it, or, more likely, have just chosen to ignore it:

* * * * *

Trevor (935), what an unfair dismissal of Barkley.

He played in all four league games during his spell his spell at Leeds: three from the start and one as sub, in his last eligible match. The other three games during his stay were cup ties.

And, may I add, as a resident of Leeds (sadly), he got rave reviews from friends of mine who saw him play, in a side struggling for form at the time of his loan.

Spouting inaccurate information like that mystifies me. Why make it up and for what purpose? It's like all those internet experts on here who said Coleman couldn't defend. Ill-informed rubbish.

From what I have seen, he's definitely worth a place on the bench at the very least and offers a lot more threat, strength, pace and an eye for a pass/shot than Osman.

* * * * *

I am aware that we must not herald Barkley as the new messiah, but, on the limited evidence I have seen – which is as much as any other Evertonian – the lad has got some real potential (my comments in the previous paragraph about Osman apply).

And as one of my fellow contributors on here pointed out, Baines and Osman also 'gave the ball away' during the time Barkley was on the pitch.

Limited to crazy cameos of no more than 10 minutes on very rare occasions, what else is the lad going to do other than try and impress? And good for him for having the courage to go for it. That's what we all scream for on here isn't it?

Trevor, no future post with your name attached to will now be regarded by me as anything but factless twaddle. I'm all for contrasting opinions on here but why did you make up such nonsense? It's simply a lie.

What a fucking disaster, what a complete tool of a manager

He played well in his 10 minutes or so. He flubbed a pass or 2? So what? Just made him like the other 19 field players.

What about those tackles? Stuck in more over his few minutes than many Stoke opponents won't over the full 90.

I see him getting more minutes during the run-in. Yesterday's game was critical, and Moyes put the kid in. Didn't hurt us.

And if that back heel to himself worked, he was into space going forward. Liked him trying it.

Bit strong of you there, but I can see your point.

I think there are only two teams in the Prem who have drawn as many games as us. A lot of them draws we're due to the manager's tactics, dropping deep when we were winning 1-0, taking attackers off instead of going for the game-killing second goal etc.

One of things that puzzles me about Moyes is his inconsistency with subs. Against Man City, when we're under a bit of pressure, on trots Naismith; we get a journeyman striker playing on the right wing against Stoke, similar scenario & Moyes opts for Barkley. In both cases you had a journeyman defensive midfield player, Hitzlsperger, on the bench who would have been a more obvious choice. For me, Barkley's best position is Osman's & as Osman is playing well at the moment, so it's not easy to give him a start unless Osman is pushed forward into Fellaini's slot.

There were some games Moyes did mess up, but I would actually class these as the Norwich away game, Southampton away game, Aston Villa at home and some others were the general attitude of the team wasn't right from the start and some of the subs were made too late. Others I would lay the blame elsewhere. I mean after the Newcastle game people criticised him for not bringing a defender on, he does that in the Fulham game and gets ripped for doing it. Ultimatley you'd expect your CBs to defend a long punt down the middle but they didn't.

The players have to take a lot of the blame for some of these draws. If the strikers are missing a lot of the chances and your defenders only concentrate for the middle 80 minutes of matches then every game is going to be tense. Recently we've looked a lot more solid (although the Stoke chance in the first minute is a prime example of what I've just spoken about) and have had a few more clean sheets, lets hope it continues.

What is so frustrating is that our defense usually plays perfectly from about 10 to 80 minutes each game with Howard barely making a save yet look like Championship players in the first and last 10 minutes. At least teams with really bad defenses are poor throughout the 90.

Perhaps once again it comes down to mindset: when it's happened enough times in the past, the players start to get worried it will happen again, these players who have been here a long time only have a history of choking, Man Utd's players have a history of incredibly 'lucky' wins happening form even the darkest of situations so expect it.

Maybe after holding out against Man City and Stoke City, our defense will finally start showing the grit to see games out if the attack has failed to build up a big enough lead.

My opinion in the best way to bring him on would be to get him back out on loan, let him build up his confidence, realise his strengths and weaknesses, hone his decision making playing in a lower league then bring him back and bring him on late in games that we are winning and play him in the final third not in front of defence were any mistakes are more likely to be punished.

"Son if I lived in Stoke and their season tickets were £10 a season I would not watch them"

Therefore, you can see what his mindset was from the moment Osman put us ahead on the half-hour mark. Play for the last hour to see out the game. I don't think it is what the fans who travelled all the way to Norwich want to hear and this negativity must pass on to the players.

Jagielka's recent comments, asking the manager to be positive for the last 9 games, says it all.

Cap doff to Moyes for a good tactical display. Barkley was probably due to replace Mirallas a bit earlier on but Victor got a knock which delayed the decision. Once he had run it off the change was made.

I'd like to see more of Barkley but I suspect the professionals know more about it than I. And they think he isn't ready. I don't buy the theory that Moyes doesn't like kids in his team. We'll see more of him next year whoever the manager is.

I am worried about Jelavic though.

Ovieda has signed for the wrong club. Hope it doesn't ruin a promising career.