The guy still has something to offer but not as a lone striker. Give him a go alongside our loan striker and watch him go...

KITAP1; no more

Knives to gunfights; no more

Playing not to lose, not to win; no more ( * nods to The Proclaimers )

IMO we don't need to go totally tiki-taki-tastic, aka ' fannying about at the back' we just need(ed) to change the emphisis from slightly Moyes minus to slightly Martinez positive.

At the moment the positive parts of the Moyes baby ( and there were some, eg KIT ) are being thrown out with the knife to gunfight-esque Moyes bathwater.

Now, as we have found, we couldn't keep OFM ( and I for one am glad, 2 words to say to you Moyesey baby.... Wilf McGuiness * ends mini rant ) so if all we are going to do is exchange one poorish plan A that gets you a single digit finish ( but not the big money places ... yes yes I know 04-05 ) for another, at the moment, seemingly poorish Plan A that gets you a single digit etc etc

And don't get me wrong I prefer a footy base methodology.

What's it all in aid of is all we do is stay where we are, the mostly, best of the rest

Bobby; OFM was inflexible, don't you go just as inflexible, but in a different direction

There's more than one way to skin a cat... AND win games...Mix it up, vary it, don't do a scottish manager.

Pick a formation and method that suits what you HAVE NOW, not try to force the Sq pegged new Capt Pip ( and others ) into round Beckenbaur shaped holes ...( Moyesism writ large ) change what you have now as best and as quick as you can, cash allowing.

* Ends what turned into a large rant.

Without Barkley we simply have no ideas going forward, he is our creative genius and needs to be on whenever fit.

The missing key was Silva. They need him. We need someone like him.

What was interesting is that we have has the exact same record as last season, 5 wins, 5 draws and 1 defeat. Comparable goals too, last year For 21 - Against 14 - this year For 14 - Against 10.

7 goals fewer but 4 less conceded. - +7 to +4.

What's most notable is the number of games Citteh have lost already. It is a strange season so far but it seems like the same old same old for us.....just with less goals

Now on the right-hand side, we take off Mirallas and bring on Deulofeu if chasing the game, or perhaps Naismith if a bit more defensive steel is needed. Those substitutions are all we have in midfield... correct me if I am wrong!

Centre-backs are covered by Heitinga and Stones and everyone knows that Heitinga is a liability. Alcaraz and Gibson are out injured as is Kone. The players we have bought in the last window apart from McCarthy are out injured.

The players we have brought in on loan are all fit and playing in the first team squad. Soon it will be January, our season is in the hands of our miserly boardroom who carefully control the purse strings. I just hope (and pray) that money is made available to Señor Martinez without having to sell Baines and that, if Baines is sold, that the money made on the sale is ADDED to the money already saved during the last transfer window and made available to Martinez to strengthen the squad. Martinez has not really been able to stamp his authority on the squad so far.

By a whisker, McCarthy avoided a booking in the dying seconds and we luckily got a point. Like OFM, RM set us up not to lose — is that a new era? With two strikers up front playing, Osman could have been our poor man's Silva — as per Harold's observation of what was missing.

If 72% of possession is about Howard, Jags and Distan playing it about at the back, then i'm a heart attack waiting to happen. I could do without watching that, they're more like dogs of war than school of science (which I think Martinez will try to get us going towards).

I look at Southampton (this seasons next big thing and maybe next seasons WBA) with envy, they have got it right, pace at the back which allows a high pressing game, tight at the back and effective up front, they're a good team to watch. It's almost like watching the best of "The Dogs of War" meets "The School of Science" and to me that's a perfect combination. Great to watch going forward, direct when needed and no nonsense at the back and in midfield when we don't have the ball.

Never liked the Derby's, dreaded them at the best of times (except for The Dogs of War era). If we go toe to toe with Liverpool and play their game we'll be battered.

Still not impressed that the Goodison Derby is a mid morning match and the Anfield Derby is a night game, getting that lot under the lights on a pumping night game at Goodison, I miss those days.

Worried about this upcoming Derby. We've gone very soft in them over the last decade, I have fond memories of the pressing / tackling game so effective in the Derby for us. Win your individuals first, don't give an inch and take your chances when they come. Sounds too easy doesn't it?

We have to get the mix correct, no nonsense at the back, ultra competitive in midfield without the ball, but comfortable going forward with it, if you're going to have 70% of possession I would expect goals and loads of chances. As I said, it's easy on paper...

Frustration playing Mirallas out wide when he would be far more effective playing off Lulu through the middle.

Build up play is so slow - everybody on TW says the same thing - hence the word frustration spilling over everything we post.

I like RM and I hope his vision is to get the basics right then speed up the whole process whilst adding a little more creativity in midfield.

However, what worries me is that we can all see what is wrong, yet RM "appears" to be missing the point. The derby will tell us all we need to know!

Seems that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Players aren't doing what they're supposed to do. One moment in the second half, all Pienaar had to do was a simple two yard lay off, but he put it behind the player who then didn't have the time to shoot.

Simple things like that are what's wrong with the team. Hopefully it will click and we will go on a scoring spree....I doubt it because the defenders at the minute are just trotting back and waiting for us to get to our own half way line.

Senior pros in part are struggling (or going through the motions) and RM is accommodating them. Very cordial an' all that and being in a new club I can see RMs strategy but lukewarm rictus smiling betwixt gentlemen has to stop.

It's time for raging flame thrower with threat and desire in every step and if that upsets a few comfortable long termers so be it. Players incapable of getting their act together for a derby aren't good enough.

This is not to say we MUST win if they play at full pelt I think they are too strong but regardless of the result we need a marker laid down of who is capable and on board and who needs to drift around somewhere else.

Barkley is miles away from being a midfield genius, he has potential but he certainly is not the finished article.

I think RM has to learn to be ruthless too, I don't think he can always praise each shitty performance like he did against CP.

I think the last three games or so show a decline in effort put in by the players going forward. If the players are not pushed every step of the way, I think they will fall back on auto-pilot, which is where I think we are in right now.

Sadly for me, Neville is gone, and I don't think Barry has stepped up enough to run our midfield.

I think all the players are on auto-pilot until something drastic happens, like going under by a goal. If they can keep a clean sheet then I think the players will justify their own performance, at least in their own minds.

I think the effort and energy needs to be raised a lot higher then our recent performances.

Do any of us have any idea what Moyes did and Martinez does behind the scenes?

Did that 'angry intensity' work on all those strikers over the years? Did it work when the players choked against Liverpool and Wigan in the FA Cup? Wasn't it the 'ruthless' manager that kept the same side last season, even when we could all see players losing form and fitness? Didn't I hear the 'ruthless' manager say last Saturday that his champions need time to settle into his methods?

If you have a problem with people being positive about their staff in public, I suggest it says more about you than anyone else.